PTS Update 27 - Feedback Thread for Existing Item Sets

Olupajmibanan

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Thrassian Stranglers:
Remove the stack timer, keep all the others changes made. Lets remember this item is breaking a five set bonus or a Monster set, the damage needs to take that into account.

False God:
Revert all the changes.

Vestment of Olorime:
Reduced the duration of the Major Courage to 15 seconds
Revert the Adjusted the Max Targets back to 12 per tick or adjust Spell Cure Power to 6 targets.

Olorime target cap is still 12. The only change made is that now at least two ticks from Olorime are needed to affect whole group. Before change 1 tick was enough.

Tanis-Stormbinder

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Thrassian Stranglers:
Remove the stack timer, keep all the others changes made. Lets remember this item is breaking a five set bonus or a Monster set, the damage needs to take that into account.

False God:
Revert all the changes.

Vestment of Olorime:
Reduced the duration of the Major Courage to 15 seconds
Revert the Adjusted the Max Targets back to 12 per tick or adjust Spell Cure Power to 6 targets.

Olorime target cap is still 12. The only change made is that now at least two ticks from Olorime are needed to affect whole group. Before change 1 tick was enough.

Got it, edited the post.

Czekoludek

Olorime:
Changes are bad, please keep effect to 12 players but reduce the time of buff to 10-15s.
Thrassians:
Why you decided that broken OP set now will be just broken? It should provide something useful without being too op:
Reduce max stacks to 10. Each stack should give 55 sd and wd, 2% increased damage taken. Stacks are gained if enemy you damaged recently (2s) die (to promote group play instead of selfish approach). No timer on stack.
This way you get Item that increase your damage taken by 20% and spell/weapon damage by 550. Not too op but pretty useful if you know what you are doing

seerevaloc

GrumpyKlam wrote: »

Redesign Thrassian Stranglers: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537145/redesign-thrassian-stranglers#latest

1. Reduced the Spell Damage granted per stack to 50, down from 150 (92)
2. Keep the penalties per stack to 2 %
3. This set now also grants Weapon Damage
4. This set will assume the armor type of which you have the most. (IE: if you have 6 med and slot Thrassian, it will be considered as a medium armor)
5. When you deal a critical strike, you gain a stack (up to 20). The stacks drop after 5 seconds if you don't hit a critical strike or sneak.

50 spell damage each stack a barely viable trade-off for 2% penalty at this point.
(your suggestion here: 40% more damage taken for 1000 spell damage.)
95 is fine for 2%. and anything lower than 75 spell damage should be 1% penalized.

I agree with others.

Wolf81

Is Scathing Mage mage getting its proc chance removed/changed? I use to like it a lot but found that 20% chance to be poopoo.

Lerozain

seerevaloc wrote: »

50 spell damage each stack a barely viable trade-off for 2% penalty at this point.
(your suggestion here: 40% more damage taken for 1000 spell damage.)
95 is fine for 2%. and anything lower than 75 spell damage should be 1% penalized.

I agree with others.

This is how I'm thinking of it as well. Thrassian would still be quite useful at 90-ish spell/weapon damage per stack, even with 2% penalty per stack, provided the stack behavior remains in its original state. Expiring stacks on top of the damage reduction make it pretty much garbage.

MrZeDark

Please modify Alkosh.

As a tank who has been doing it since day 1 of this game. It is clearly intended to be a set that creates dmg as well as assists the group. Right now however it is being extensively used by tanks. To a point where many guilds won’t have you, unless you run it.

It’s truly the same as being pigeon holed into Yoln/Perf Yoln. Which sure, that is a great tank set. But to be blocked into two sets breaks the point you set out for this game. The diversity in builds and unique play style.

Because the way Alkosh currently exists and could exist with this PTS patch. It is pushing it so tanks have no choice in gear. No flexibility, just an expectation. It says, “this is the only way you support”. This of course; by choice, I am referring to guilds that chase meta. Which to be fair, are the ones clearing the end game content. But clearing it in a dictator type style. Where both Tanks and Healers are required certain gear. Essentially putting a gate on a persons choice of play style and build. No room to think outside the box, on how to save the group. As the answer right now is ‘always’ more DPS to not deal with it.

Though you have done great work on balancing the healing support sets. Though you have provided adequate changes to lower power of newer sets. While increasing power to older sets. Creating a diversity now for healers and damage. Tanks are still stuck with Yoln + Alkosh.

You can argue we don’t ‘have’ to wear it. But once you tell a trial ‘no’. There goes your spot, or harsh criticism. What you end up with is a systemic bully system, that makes you have to run what the leader wants. It takes away from the fun.

Now let me be clear, I thoroughly appreciate what you did with Alkosh. However, I believe it would be better to scale off Weapon Damage in such a way, that those built for real dps are the true winners of the debuff. Right now, I can get a debuff from an STA DPS that is higher than a tank. Yet the diff is slight, to the point that people are already crafting ways to MAKE the tanks wear it. Now on top of gear requirements, there are CP requirements being created. Further removing a tank from any customization.

I would like to see Alkosh be an option for anyone, truly - as the game is designed. But, from what I see you attempted to do to it - you attempted to make it more DPS-centric. Unfortunately it became more important for a tank to use it. Least according to the men behind the scenes, that practically dictate meta; everyone’s gear builds.

I want to see Alkosh balanced with more disparity - between someone who is a tank and someone who is a dps. Where it scales off weapon damage.

I appreciate this coming patch greatly, I see it as a great way to balance out the game a bit more. Balance that is greatly needed for PvE. I just would like to see more work on keeping DPS from dictating how support supports. How high numbers are obtained, only because Alkosh, Yoln, Olo, and spamming combat prayer are required.

We don’t get enough of working mechanics, of dealing with strategy. All we get is DPS attempting to Zerg so quickly, that mechanics may be shortened or skipped. No one cares if a tank can do something besides Taunt and activate a synergy. No one cares if a healer can crank HPS or buff resists, as long as Combat Prayer has a 100% uptime.

Thank you for balancing Damage a bit. Now please, for the rest of us. Make Alkosh comparable to Lokk or Rele, while making it far weaker on a Tank. There is other great gear I would like to try. Until Alkosh is resolved - you have just patched us into boundaries that never let us try - that never let play styles shine. You will have inadvertently dictated our Gear and our CPs.

Thank You

Jodynn

Scathing proc should be removed at be put at 450 spell damage

Burning Spellweave cooldown should be 8 seconds and put at 450 spell damage.

Spell Strat, being it only affects a single target should be 500 spell damage

Succession should be at 550 spell elemental damage since it's bound to an element and doesn't help healing either.

Silks of sun should be 600 damage as the buff can't follow you to backbar if you frontbar it

This would give a point to each set and make them each useful in different scenarios instead of dumping it all on one set.

A.) Succession would be good for elemental builds, but not useful for trash as much since mystic orb is almost vital, and healing isn't buffed so it's not overpowered in pvp.

B.) Scathing gives crit classes a set they can rely on more heavily than other classes. Burning spellweave although same crit would be lesser in this case due to the spell crit line instead of the spell damage line.

C.) Burning spellweave would be DK sustain set and better for trash than succession or sun because it buffs mystic orb as well.

D.) Spell strat is a single target build but any spell damage less than 500 makes it hit pretty flat especially with proposed changes.

E.) Silks of the sun can't be front barred and keeping the buff up, so it should be more powerful, so you sacrifice having to frontbar something else, nor does it empower healing either.

And that, is called balance.

Sordidfairytale

Healing Mage: This set now reduces nearby enemies' Weapon and Spell Damage by 286 for 5 seconds, rather than nearby enemies Weapon Damage by 430 for 3 seconds.

This set always affected the spell damage of the enemy. Much like a Glyph of Weakening reduces spell and weapon damage despite the tooltip only saying "weapon damage".

This is a considerable nerf for 2 additional seconds of debuff.

Tommy_The_Gun

New Moon Acolyte: Reduced the Weapon and Spell Damage granted from this set’s 5 piece bonus to 401, down from 481. This was done to make up for the fact that the resource cost increase penalty can be easily alleviated in group settings by having allies supply you with sets or synergies.

Umm... Zenimax... I don't play in a group with this set. I play solo. Why I am getting punished for being able to learn how to sustain with addition of 5% Skill & Ultimates cost increase ? ? ?

Don't get me wrong, but your logic is kinda flawed here. This argument (dev comment) applies only to one, tiny part of your game....

With all do respect, it feels like you are trying to push new sets with made-up arguments....

If so, then you should reduce skill cost penalty, or remove it. This set has a kiss-curse effect.
With your change this set won't heave a "kiss" , but only "curse" effect left.

caperb

Wolf81 wrote: »

Anyone have the stats on the Innate Axiom crafted set(ptr)...I hear its more in line with a multi spec usage now...

From the patch notes

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

New Moon Acolyte: Reduced the Weapon and Spell Damage granted from this set’s 5 piece bonus to 401, down from 481. This was done to make up for the fact that the resource cost increase penalty can be easily alleviated in group settings by having allies supply you with sets or synergies.

Umm... Zenimax... I don't play in a group with this set. I play solo. Why I am getting punished for being able to learn how to sustain with addition of 5% Skill & Ultimates cost increase ? ? ?

Don't get me wrong, but your logic is kinda flawed here. This argument (dev comment) applies only to one, tiny part of your game....

With all do respect, it feels like you are trying to push new sets with made-up arguments....

This is a direct nerf to half the stamina PvP builds...

noblecron

I thought Torgus and SPC was fine as is. I don't think a nerf for them is needed

Tanis-Stormbinder

Thrassian Stranglers: Increased the duration of each stack to 10 minutes to make them essentially permanent while fixing some bugs with actual permanent stacks.
Note: This set is currently undergoing some additional changes which are not yet complete. We plan to increase the maximum stack count from 20 to 50, allowing the set to stack up to a maximum of 2000 Weapon and Spell Damage, but with a 50% reduction in healing and shield efficacy and 50% increased damage taken; this should make the maximum power of this set unattainable to reach by multiple players in Trial settings. At the moment, these stacks are also not being removed on death. These changes and issues will be fixed in a future PTS patch.

Better but 50% damage increase and healing reduction is harsh.

Veesk

Spell Power Cure didn't need the nerf, with fights being as mobile as they are now - especially in dungeons, the 10 seconds of major courage felt just right.

Vestments of Olorime was revisited and compromised with changes. Since it now has 20 seconds of major courage, 10 seconds for SPC is fair. Please consider reverting the SPC nerf.

SidraWillowsky

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Thrassian Stranglers: Increased the duration of each stack to 10 minutes to make them essentially permanent while fixing some bugs with actual permanent stacks.
Note: This set is currently undergoing some additional changes which are not yet complete. We plan to increase the maximum stack count from 20 to 50, allowing the set to stack up to a maximum of 2000 Weapon and Spell Damage, but with a 50% reduction in healing and shield efficacy and 50% increased damage taken; this should make the maximum power of this set unattainable to reach by multiple players in Trial settings. At the moment, these stacks are also not being removed on death. These changes and issues will be fixed in a future PTS patch.

Better but 50% damage increase and healing reduction is harsh.

Meh.... based on what the forums say, the current penalty doesn't seem to be significant in any way, shape, or form. Granted, *I* hurt a lot from it, but the people who run vMA and vet trials with it seem to have no problems. It needs more of a risk than what's happening on live, so I don't mind the changes.

Jodynn

Everything was ignored in this thread other than Thrassians ( 50 stacks is going to be ridiculous for trials and a bit to RNG based for balance see blow ), Olorime ( which you didn't even listen to the complaints about 6 people ) and Nerfing content.

New Moon Acolyte is rarely used in a group context, PvE there are better sets most of the time and most classes are severely struggling with sustain now.

Bloodthirsty buff just makes it more unreasonable to run anything else in any vet content in PvE, you're just making it a clear meta, while I'm not totally against this because transmute stones for some reason have a cap of holding 200, I would like to see variety.

Thrassian changes I am going to glaze over the fact that 10 minutes does not make them essentially permanent in veteran trial hard mode content since you need to deliver the killing blow but more focused on the point. Unless you deal the killing blow which is hard to plan for any class without an execute and even hard still with an execute, 50 stacks is an unreasonable amount and will make them next to useless in most trials. So you want people to wear the set to gamble if they get the lucky spell damage and if not change while others get to deal substantially more DPS even if their skill warrants them to be lesser but most likely most people ending up with somewhere around 400 spell damage ( 10 stacks ) and it not being worth it? I care more about skill than RNG personally.
Also if these changes go through for Thrassian, MagDK needs more than ever a passive heal for vMA especially with even more damage increase/healing reduction.

Tanis-Stormbinder

Thrassian Stranglers: Increased the duration of each stack to 10 minutes to make them essentially permanent while fixing some bugs with actual permanent stacks.
Note: This set is currently undergoing some additional changes which are not yet complete. We plan to increase the maximum stack count from 20 to 50, allowing the set to stack up to a maximum of 2000 Weapon and Spell Damage, but with a 50% reduction in healing and shield efficacy and 50% increased damage taken; this should make the maximum power of this set unattainable to reach by multiple players in Trial settings. At the moment, these stacks are also not being removed on death. These changes and issues will be fixed in a future PTS patch.

Unattainable is right! With the increase in damage and healing reduction why would a solo player use this. Well I guess if multiple players can get 20 or 25 stacks it still maybe be worth using.

technohic

So they are really buffing procs and nerfing stat sets and doubling down on it? This myst be how they really intend to "fix performance." Not by reducing calculations of RNG alone; but by reducing the abilities being used. Just light attack, dit and proc. No need to buff

Qbiken

Unleashed Terror is still way to oppressive since even with the DoT being over 10 seconds compared to the previous 5, it doesn´t have any sort of cooldown associated with it. Increase the cooldown to 20 seconds as a bare minimum.

Onefrkncrzypope

Thrassians need to come in medium to better suit a hybrid mythic. Mag can take advantage of 5 1 1 and stam can still be in all med like they currently forced to be.

Milli_Rabbit

The week two changes just feel bad. I really liked what was done to Thrassian in the first week. NMA should be left alone. SPC is bad again. The new change to olorime is somewhat okay as the duration was improved.

Lughlongarm

I think NMA should be 450 and fury up to 500. Both sets were over nerfed in my opinion.

WrathOfInnos

The New Moon Acolyte change does not fit with the established power budget of sets. Sustain is absolutely a factor when using this set, and that must be considered when evaluating it.

Looking at the 6.1.1 version, and comparing to other 5pc bonuses, we can see it gives:
1.34 x Julianos - 0.83 x Alteration Mastery = 0.51 x Standard 5pc bonus

Before this change it gave 481 Weapon/Spell Damage:
1.6 x Julianos - 0.83 x Alteration Mastery = 0.77 x Standard 5pc bonus

By these definitions, clearly NMA was not over performing. However, I believe that in practice NMA was close to balanced at the value of 481. This leads me to think that it’s possibly Alteration Mastery that’s out of line in the power budget at 6% cost reduction, and that it should give 10% cost reduction. Then the old NMA would be:

481 Weapon/Spell Damage + 5% Cost Increase
1.6 x Julianos - 0.5 x Proposed Alteration = 1.1 Standard 5pc bonus

And in this case there would be justification for reducing the NMA 5pc to:

450 Weapon/Spell Damage + 5% Cost Increase
1.5 x Julianos - 0.5 Proposed Alteration = 1.0 Standard 5pc bonus

Of course if Alteration got buffed to 10% cost reduction then Seducer would need to be increased as well. 14% Magicka cost reduction on Seducer 5pc would balance it well with other sets like Lich. On high drain builds in constant combat Seducer would be slightly ahead, on lower drain builds or with combat breaks Lich would be more effective.

Edit: Wanted to add another option. Continuing with the hypothetical Alteration and Seducer buffs to 10% and 14%, we could let NMA increase Magicka/Stamina skill costs without affecting ultimates/block/dodge etc. In that case it would be fair to adjust it to:

407 Weapon/Spell Damage + 5% mag/stam ability cost increase (not ultimates or utilities)
1.36 x Julianos - 0.36 Proposed Seducer = 1.0 Standard 5pc set bonus

Edit 2: I was just reminded that Magnus Gift set was buffed in 6.1.0 from average 8% to 15% cost reduction. This is even more evidence that shows Seducer should be increased from 10% to 14% or 15%. And along with that change, both Alteration Mastery and Battlefield Acrobat should increase from 6% to 10%. By redefining the standard for cost reduction, the reduced damage on NMA would make a lot more sense, although as I’ve shown above, the math still says that 450 Weapon/Spell Damage would make more sense.

Jodynn

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

The New Moon Acolyte change does not fit with the established power budget of sets. Sustain is absolutely a factor when using this set, and that must be considered when evaluating it.

450 Weapon/Spell Damage + 5% Cost Increase
1.5 x Julianos - 0.5 Alteration = 1.0 Standard 5pc bonus

Of course if Alteration got buffed to 10% cost reduction then Seducer would need to be increased as well. 14% Magicka cost reduction on Seducer 5pc would balance it well with other sets like Lich. On high drain builds in constant combat Seducer would be slightly ahead, on lower drain builds or with combat breaks Lich would be more effective.

I support this.

Czekoludek

Did you changed amount of sd/wd per stack again? No mention about that except info that 50 stacks is equal to 2000 so one stack is only 40 weapon/spell damage?

Cellentel

The current method for gaining Thrassian stacks - killing blows - doesn't fit with what the week 2 developer notes said about the intended uses for the set. The notes say that only want a few people in the group to wear Thrassian, and that making it stack to 50 accomplishes this because there aren't enough enemies to get a full group up to 50 stacks.

This doesn't work as long as killing blows are required. In a group setting where everyone has a bunch of AoEs lying around, it's essentially random who gets the killing blow. This encourages as many DPS as possible to wear Thrassians, because it means the killing blow is going to build a stack somewhere, even if you can't control who. If you don't change this system, stacking it up to 50 isn't going to help because you still can't control who gets the stacks. It'll still be best if everyone wears them (if on average the number of stacks is still pretty good), or nobody will wear them (if the average number of stacks is too low).

To properly encourage just a few people to wear them, you should make it so that every time an enemy dies, one stack goes to a group member with the lowest number of Thrassian stacks, without that person needing to get the killing blow. If the group only contains a few people wearing them, they'll be able to get high stacks, but if everyone wears them the benefits will be more spread out.

Firstmep

So after some pts testing here are my thoughts on few of the sets:

Briarheart: I honestly dont think the change to this sets initial proc condition was needed, but if it helps performance, so be it.

Unfortunately the heal is still insanely weak in pvp, even if you build around it heavily, on pts on a templar with about 30ish points into both healing cps, this set was maxing out at 163 healing. That is so very weak its not even funny.

Since this set is already focused on critical strikes, my suggestion would be to allow the sets heal to critically strike, that way it would have more synergy with crit related stats, like crit chance and healing.

Mechanical Acuity: Great change all around, very happy to see this set coming back, will likely to find its way to quite a few pvp builds, especially in no cp, where the nerf to impen will be more felt.

Alessian Order: I dont understand why this set needed a buff, it was already a very strong tanky set for pvp, when built around correctly, this will be pretty insanse with the next set:

Juggernaut: I understand the need to nerf tanky bruiser setups, but at the same time sets like this one will allow for some of the trollies builds around, and anyone can throw on this set and survive for insane amounts of time, especially when they can rotate in defensive ultimates in between.

New moon acolyte: Like with fury, nerfing easy to gain weapon damage sets is not necesseraly a bad thing, but i look at other options for obtaining high wpd, and Molag kena, which is the monster set counterpart to this set, is so akward to use in pvp, it would be great if Kena allowed for a windown where we can use an ability in between light attacks like 2 seconds tops, it would be a lot easier to control.
Maybe new moon needs to have a similar effect where its not active at all times but has a proc condition, and with the weapon damage also comes the cost increase.

Soulshine and Rattlecage: With the new moon nerf these sets look a lot juicer for magicka users, now if only Scathing mage could receive similar treatment.

Powerful Assault: Another great change, it will definetly make it onto a lot of my stamina charachters for battlegrounds.

Ozby

Just read patch 6.1.1 have to say this... By nerfing these sets all you are doing is making those sets useless and they will never be used, instead we will all find another set to use so it changes nothing as all other sets including the newly nerfed ones will not be used. However if you buffed less used sets it would create more opportunity for build diversity and not everybody would be using the same sets.
I do not understand why you would nerf the new mythics considering they are such new content and thought you wanted people to use them?
I can understand slight nerfs to things to bring them inline with others but there is literally no buffs to the older sets in the latest patch notes. Seems my feedback is either not popular or falling on deaf ears.

goldenskater3eb17_ESO

PTS Testing Stamina necro point of view

the changes where big so i wanted to test them myself

the combination of the nerf to shadow mundos (pve point of view)
relequen and lokiz

has had a big impact on DPS around 10 %

the change in beserking set has given another viable option but this limits your options (( must use monster set (boring))

stamina dps was alredy out performed by blood for blood users ( now thats changed on the pts ok cool)

but ranged dps (magicka) is in its core more flexible cuz it can always keep dealing damage no mather what

i understand that relequen was over performing as a set but this is what made stamina dd even viable in trials

i dont mind it being nerfed but then there should be compensations ( like nightblade got buffs)

also the bloodthirsty trait is underperforming there is almost no difference in infused and blood thirsty

then what is the point in having both?

im al for set difersity , would be cool that everyone could run their own thing and be viable

but at this point you just outright nerfed the standard stamina dps by alot

if this goes live i wil not be playing any stamina class outside of maybi nightblade ( still need to test the buffs it got tho)

this is my first time i acktualy test things in pts and i do hope someone is reading everything ^^

sincerely a fan of the game ^^

Jodynn

goldenskater3eb17_ESO wrote: »

PTS Testing Stamina necro point of view

the changes where big so i wanted to test them myself

the combination of the nerf to shadow mundos (pve point of view)
relequen and lokiz

has had a big impact on DPS around 10 %

the change in beserking set has given another viable option but this limits your options (( must use monster set (boring))

stamina dps was alredy out performed by blood for blood users ( now thats changed on the pts ok cool)

but ranged dps (magicka) is in its core more flexible cuz it can always keep dealing damage no mather what

i understand that relequen was over performing as a set but this is what made stamina dd even viable in trials

i dont mind it being nerfed but then there should be compensations ( like nightblade got buffs)

also the bloodthirsty trait is underperforming there is almost no difference in infused and blood thirsty

then what is the point in having both?

im al for set difersity , would be cool that everyone could run their own thing and be viable

but at this point you just outright nerfed the standard stamina dps by alot

if this goes live i wil not be playing any stamina class outside of maybi nightblade ( still need to test the buffs it got tho)

this is my first time i acktualy test things in pts and i do hope someone is reading everything ^^

sincerely a fan of the game ^^

Stamina is actually stronger without the blood for blood change but thank you for providing your feedback as well.