"we are exploring better ways to keep you updated" - [snip]

idk · June 2020

exeeter702 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

All I know is Zos better hope new world is a flop.
I love this game but I know that them not getting a better server is The devs it’s the suits.
But yeah haven’t thought about it but there isn’t much dev communication as there was. I mean look at the greymoor reveal all they did was talk RP is hey didn’t talk anything about CP changes balance server preference.

What is New World? Another game? Why is it relevant? Are you familiar with the countless past posts with the same warnings of games on the horizon?

And what does "CP changes balance server preference" mean? How do CP do that?

I remember those who called out that Wildstar and ArcheAge would spell the end of ESO. Wildstar could not even make it after they switched to F2P.

Not really with wildstar. Wildstar and eso were sibling mmos. They both released very close to one another. Eso was barely out for a month which is well within the incubation period of an mmos release and while its initial reception was lukewarm, the game was not out long enough for players to really solidify their opinions.

Yes really. It was that quick people were saying Wildstar and ArcheAge would steal the show due to ESO's poor state at launch. Heck, people have been saying ESO is dying since the first month it came out. People were taking about leaving or others leaving for Wildstar from the start.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/108303/is-your-guild-bleeding-members-to-wildstar/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/100967/wildstar-here-i-come
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/105476/are-you-moving-to-wildstar
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/111555/wildstar-vs-eso/p1

Granted, it is hard to find specific threads from over 6 years ago but those still demonstrate the fact that people were talking about leaving ESO for WIldstar. Heck, there was over two months between the launch of both games to bring about discussion.

There was nothing to steal.... you may have had some disgruntled players upset with the product that zos delivered at launch, but it was not this widespread wildstar is going to kill eso, Eso wasnt even living yet. Its was mostly loud mouthbreathers being hyperbolic. The actual situation was that once both mmos were out for a while, wildstar was not exactly a dumpster fire and players considered moving to it because eso wasnt very strong itself. That is not the same as claiming wildstar was going to kill eso when it launched. Those are two very different sentiments.

It seems we agree. Of course, it is disgruntled players that make these such claims that one game will hurt another just because they are disgruntled with the current one. It is no different than those calling out that ESO is dying. Those claims were being made by some starting right after launch and still happen. That is what I was pointing out with the claim concerning the New World game Amazon will launch later this week. Heck, it is not even a similar style MMO for starters.

Destai · June 2020

Hotdog_23 · June 2020

Don’t believe you are going to get the “word about improvements plans” from ZOS that you want to hear. From ZOS POV why say anything when you don’t have the real answer to the problem. If they say again beyond a real game changing fix then they are crucified for saying anything at all.

I too was sad to see the monthly improvement plans stopped. By having to write something monthly it helps keep you focused on the task at hand and not get distracted. Hopefully they will start them back for July since the reason for stopping was” prioritizing the game performance issues that surfaced with the launch of Update 26 and Greymoor – specifically high ping in some zones”.

Be safe and have fun.

Mayrael · June 2020

When it goes to story and single player experience in an online game you won't find anything even close to ESO, it's absolute number 1. Masterpiece.

When it goes to PvP. When it works it's amazing, one of the tops out there. Dynamic, very skill based also dependent on your preparations, simply love it.

When it goes to performance... I haven't played anything worse, and what's the saddest part, game devs seem to don't care about it at all. They remain silent, censoring any negative feedback, trying to sweep it under the rug. This game had potential to dethrone WoW, shame

Keledus · June 2020

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

After some review, we would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the community rules we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Instead of censoring the forums, how about you guys communicate properly and reply to the community.
You want people to civil and constructive, and when we do we're still met with dead silence by the zenimax community managers.

Adress the issues, take responsibilities and stop hiding we're your paying customers and we dont like playing hide and seek with you.

WhisperLFE · June 2020

Keledus wrote: »

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

After some review, we would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the community rules we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Instead of censoring the forums, how about you guys communicate properly and reply to the community.
You want people to civil and constructive, and when we do we're still met with dead silence by the zenimax community managers.

Adress the issues, take responsibilities and stop hiding we're your paying customers and we dont like playing hide and seek with you.

[snip] I'm no ZOS basher, and I generally enjoy ESO, but I've definitely noticed a declining trend in communication style despite their recent statements that they would attempt to improve this. I wish they'd redirect their time and energy into proactively communicating with the player base [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Tigerseye · June 2020

WhisperLFE wrote: »

Keledus wrote: »

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

After some review, we would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the community rules we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Instead of censoring the forums, how about you guys communicate properly and reply to the community.
You want people to civil and constructive, and when we do we're still met with dead silence by the zenimax community managers.

Adress the issues, take responsibilities and stop hiding we're your paying customers and we dont like playing hide and seek with you.

[snip] I'm no ZOS basher, and I generally enjoy ESO, but I've definitely noticed a declining trend in communication style despite their recent statements that they would attempt to improve this. I wish they'd redirect their time and energy into proactively communicating with the player base [snip]

Sign of the times...

The problem is, people (understandably) call for blatant trolling to be moderated - not just on here, but in general - but, they end up with other, perfectly innocent, things being heavily moderated, too.

This forum is, not surprisingly, like a microcosm of life, the internet and everything, at the moment

Call for trolling, blatant unkindness and intolerance to go, but end up with no freedom of speech at all.

Shouldn't have to make a choice like that.

It is possible (again, in general) to only moderate for trolling/blatant unkindness and leave genuine points people make, but not unless the will is there to do so.

Gythral · June 2020

> /dev/null

most likely

Keledus · June 2020

WhisperLFE wrote: »

Keledus wrote: »

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

After some review, we would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the community rules we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Instead of censoring the forums, how about you guys communicate properly and reply to the community.
You want people to civil and constructive, and when we do we're still met with dead silence by the zenimax community managers.

Adress the issues, take responsibilities and stop hiding we're your paying customers and we dont like playing hide and seek with you.

[snip] I'm no ZOS basher, and I generally enjoy ESO, but I've definitely noticed a declining trend in communication style despite their recent statements that they would attempt to improve this. I wish they'd redirect their time and energy into proactively communicating with the player base [snip]

Dont get me wrong I love this game and Zenimax isn't that bad of a company but come on.. this hide and seek behaviour is just going too far, the communication was getting much better but now we're back to zero.
The communication between community managers and the community is horrible, we're paying customers they should atleast have the decency to admit to the issues and adress them, instead of constantly censoring people and acting like we dont exist. [snip], they can simply make a post, telling us they know the issues and whats wrong and tell us what they're going to do about it. It would satisfy the customer them knowing Zenimax knows the issues and are working on it.
[snip]

[edited for bashing]

stvwhitewalker · June 2020

as a rule Zos puts a banner on the top of the forums indicating when there will be maintenance, in their attempt to better inform us they forgot to let us know that there was downtime today, reminds me of the beatles classic, "getting better all the time, better better better"

Nairinhe · June 2020

.

Nairinhe · June 2020

Nmv, troubles with reading

Thoragaal · June 2020

Destai wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Asdara wrote: »

Is that the community management plan ZOS choose in regard of these points? (https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56681):

- A HUGE increase of new and old returning player whiling to invest a lot of time and money into the game.
- The increasing DESYNCS/LAG/FPS drop and the MASSIVE complaint of the community about performance for month if not years.
- An incoming Massive PVP event that will most likely submerge the dying servers.
- The "DEV TRACKER" being absolutely silent about these issues.
- NO clear MAP for the future of the game, where is the spellcrafting? The rework of CP? The improvement in class identity?
- Almost 2 MONTH since the last "news" about the improvements plan.

Here's an attempt to keep the dialogue civil and constructive between us.
It's really hard to find information about where the game is going, what are the devs plan?
Could you maybe break the silence, so we can stop the crying storm (harrow?) that the forum as become and start something more healthy?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I hope this might help you out a bit : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/531219/greymoor-update-26-launch-game-director-update/p1

Edit: I think there's not much else for them to say at this point, partially because they're waiting to see if the player base will go down again. ESO had a huge influx of players in April, due to covid-19. We also had more people coming due to Greymoor. The effects are still echoing through the system and needs to settle down, to get a better "base line view" of player activity.

I can't say I agree. Performance is all anyone talks about on here and they should be saying something, regardless if there's something that can immediately be done. They've eroded a lot of trust because they under-communicate and over-moderate on top of these issues. The situation was exacerbated by April's influx, but these issues are far from recent. It needs to be a continual dialogue at this point.

Well, I don't know exactly what you're hoping for, but if you're hoping for them to keep telling us "nothing's changed" then I'm afraid you're out of luck.
I know, I want them to have that continual conversation with the community too, but it's simply not a good move on their part (from a business PoV). Keeping people in the dark instead of letting everyone know "this isn't something we can fix" prevents people from leaving.
Like you said yourself "these issues are far from recent" and they still haven't changed their communicative strategy. Soon to be two years ago the community was asking for the very same thing. They apologized, ackowledged the issues (November 2018) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/445841/the-silence-of-zenimax/p2

"Hi everyone. First of all, you aren't wrong. We agree we haven't been communicating as much as we should on this matter (among others) and for that, we apologize. There really is no excuse [...]" -Gina

Unfortunately in this case "actions speak louder than words". https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/446497/so-about-that-communication-zos/p1

@SaltySudd said "[...] I was simply following up with her statement to see if they are developing a plan to prevent similar situations from repeating in the future [...]"
And Gina replies "As for my end, there is a plan, but we need time to get it fleshed out and implemented. I don't want to speak on behalf of Rob in regards to the vision and strategy for the game moving forward, but he has been hard at work getting this together. Again, these things take time and isn't something you'll see after just a couple days."

"These things take time and isn't something you'll see after just a couple of days"... it's soon been a couple of years..

Destai · June 2020

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

After some review, we would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the community rules we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

We are keeping it civil. But this communication needs to be candid, too. Criticism of this game isn't bashing, and sometimes people communicate it in a sardonic way. In terms of it being constructive, we're offering concrete dialogue points and pointing gaps in Zenimax's communication.

These things need to be addressed. You'd have to moderate far less toxic posts if Zenimax were more engaging on a regular basis. Help us get the communication we're asking for and guaranteed, you'll have to paste that message less.

eso_lags · June 2020

I just dont understand why every update makes performance worse when they are supposedly doing things in their performance roadmap to fix the issues this game has. Major, game breaking, issues that make it so you cannot play as intended. Issues that make the game much worse on one platform than it is on another. A game this old should never be like that for this long.. Just like Q4 of 2019 was supposed to help a bit with lower end PCs and console, it only made things worse..

They really should be way more open when every update is a step backwards.

Elsonso · June 2020

eso_lags wrote: »

Just like Q4 of 2019 was supposed to help a bit with lower end PCs and console, it only made things worse..

What platform? I had no performance issues at the end of 2019. Unlike this year, 2019 performance issues were very much a non-issue for me. This year, as long as I stay out of Cyrodiil, and keep watch for skill desync, I am good. Performance is further down on the list than some Greymoor bugs.

ZaroktheImmortal · June 2020

Destai wrote: »

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

After some review, we would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the community rules we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

We are keeping it civil. But this communication needs to be candid, too. Criticism of this game isn't bashing, and sometimes people communicate it in a sardonic way. In terms of it being constructive, we're offering concrete dialogue points and pointing gaps in Zenimax's communication.

These things need to be addressed. You'd have to moderate far less toxic posts if Zenimax were more engaging on a regular basis. Help us get the communication we're asking for and guaranteed, you'll have to paste that message less.

This exactly. They need to work on their communication with their playerbase. It's best to keep communication open and be honest with your playerbase. If you don't say anything then it just makes the situation worse. If there's problems and what not at least tell us what's going on be as honest and open with the playerbase and keep communication going. As much as I love this game the PR side of it is somewhat lacking. Although do the ones who manage the forums actually know anything I wonder or are they ones whose job it is to manage the forums? If they don't maybe someone who does can inform them or they can get involved on forums. I have no idea but either way not giving your playerbase an answer just makes things worse.

gronoxvx · June 2020

Its come full circle tbh. It wasnt that long ago where people were all praise as they started to communicate with us about what they were identifying performance and just engaging in general. But for at least a year they have dropped the ball again.

For what feels like the millionth time ZOS, we arent expecting you to treat us like your shareholders, but any sort of communication (even if its just to tell us its being monitored as we know everything you do is data driven) is better than ignoring your customer base entirely (or choosing to only engage with those that give you positive feedback *cough* reddit *cough*).

I work in a specialist customer service role for a company that has more customers then your game and while i agree you cant please everyone, your silence shows you really have an issue with communicating with your customer base. This is a huge concern if you still want us to support your future endeavours (ESO 2).

Suddwrath · June 2020

tgrippa wrote: »

Sure, they will open themselves up to criticism and complaints, but that is a part of a service based business.

Being able to handle criticism and complaints requires a degree of professionalism and maturity. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

ZaroktheImmortal · June 2020

Suddwrath wrote: »

tgrippa wrote: »

Sure, they will open themselves up to criticism and complaints, but that is a part of a service based business.

Being able to handle criticism and complaints requires a degree of professionalism and maturity. [snip]

Then they need someone who can handle the PR side of things.

[edited quoted content]

shaielzafine · June 2020

They need to do what the community managers and dev team of other games like FF14 have been doing. However I'm starting to wonder if there's actually a fix for the performance, servers, combat and the other issues people keep complaining about. Some of the issues like combat bug and long loading screen has been around since 2017? If they could fix it they would've done so already based on the nice roadmap they released last year. They have been banning ESO players on Twitch for even talking about performance so it looks like they don't want to communicate about it. This is why the many many posts in forums have been ignored as well. Absolutely negative experience for me as a paying ESO+ subscriber (subscribed until December btw) to not even be able to ask questions in the livestream they keep promoting. My husband and I are currently playing other games like FF14 waiting for more updates to this game. Looks like things haven't changed since Greymoor launch, based on forums and discord posts

Ascarl · June 2020

Asdara wrote: »

EDIT after the thread got closed:
My attempt to keep the "dialogue" civil and constructive by bringing legitimate concern of the player base is responded by closing the thread and censoring the title.

The problem with communication is the fact that the intense moderation of this forum is much more visible that "constructive" dev posts. At least in my perception the number of green text modules of moderation action is about thousandfold compared to some dev saying "we have this and that problem because of", "our vision to fix that contains xyz" etc.

TheRealPotoroo · June 2020

Ascarl wrote: »

Asdara wrote: »

EDIT after the thread got closed:
My attempt to keep the "dialogue" civil and constructive by bringing legitimate concern of the player base is responded by closing the thread and censoring the title.

The problem with communication is the fact that the intense moderation of this forum is much more visible that "constructive" dev posts. At least in my perception the number of green text modules of moderation action is about thousandfold compared to some dev saying "we have this and that problem because of", "our vision to fix that contains xyz" etc.

You're not wrong. It's getting ridiculous. I've submitted some tickets on actions by the new mods but I'm not holding my breath. Companies like ZOS typically make the easy choice rather than the right one, so they side with their own regardless.

ZOS_Mika · June 2020

Greetings,

Because we now have a thread detailing our plans for communicating upcoming ESO game performance-related work, we have decided to go ahead and close this one down.

We encourage you to continue the discussion here. Thanks for your understanding.