"we are exploring better ways to keep you updated" - [snip]

Asdara

Is that the community management plan ZOS choose in regard of these points? (https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56681):

- A HUGE increase of new and old returning player whiling to invest a lot of time and money into the game.
- The increasing DESYNCS/LAG/FPS drop and the MASSIVE complaint of the community about performance for month if not years.
- An incoming Massive PVP event that will most likely submerge the dying servers.
- The "DEV TRACKER" being absolutely silent about these issues.
- NO clear MAP for the future of the game, where is the spellcrafting? The rework of CP? The improvement in class identity?
- Almost 2 MONTH since the last "news" about the improvements plan.

Here's an attempt to keep the dialogue civil and constructive​ between us.
It's really hard to find information about where the game is going, what are the devs plan?
Could you maybe break the silence, so we can stop the crying storm (harrow?) that the forum as become and start something more healthy?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

EDIT after the thread got closed:
My attempt to keep the "dialogue" civil and constructive by bringing legitimate concern of the player base is responded by​ closing the thread and censoring the title.

I think action speak more than words... sadly

[Edit title for Bashing.]

lucky_Sage

All I know is Zos better hope new world is a flop.
I love this game but I know that them not getting a better server is The devs it’s the suits.
But yeah haven’t thought about it but there isn’t much dev communication as there was. I mean look at the greymoor reveal all they did was talk RP is hey didn’t talk anything about CP changes balance server preference.

WeerW3ir

Asdara wrote: »

It's really hard to find information about where the game is going, what are the devs plan?
Could you maybe break the silence, so we can stop the crying storm (harrow?) that the forum as become and start something more healthy?

You want too much sadly ;(

tgrippa

I think if they improved their communication and engagement with their customers, this place would be a lot less toxic. Sure, they will open themselves up to criticism and complaints, but that is a part of a service based business. Forcing yourself to target these head on will improve relationships with your customer and result in a better experience (and product) within a relatively short period of time. It is a win-win situation.

What we have now is a lose-lose situation that only ZOS can sort out, but it looks like they are burying their heads in the sand.

Seeing ZOS’ lack of engagement and openness since the release of their improvements roadmap has been very disappointing, and actually embarrassing. A friend from another game asked me if they should get it and I had to tell them not to, not because of the issues, but because I have no faith in the current team to do right by their customers, engage with us and deliver improvements. All I see at the moment is issues being ignored and radio silence in addressing complaints.

UGotBenched91

Asdara wrote: »

Is that the community management plan ZOS choose in regard of these points? (https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56681):

- A HUGE increase of new and old returning player whiling to invest a lot of time and money into the game.
- The increasing DESYNCS/LAG/FPS drop and the MASSIVE complaint of the community about performance for month if not years.
- An incoming Massive PVP event that will most likely submerge the dying servers.
- The "DEV TRACKER" being absolutely silent about these issues.
- NO clear MAP for the future of the game, where is the spellcrafting? The rework of CP? The improvement in class identity?
- Almost 2 MONTH since the last "news" about the improvements plan.

Here's an attempt to keep the dialogue civil and constructive​ between us.
It's really hard to find information about where the game is going, what are the devs plan?
Could you maybe break the silence, so we can stop the crying storm (harrow?) that the forum as become and start something more healthy?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I’ve never seen the devs post on forum except for to lock a thread because it mentioned another games title or was negative feedback towards dev.

SmukkeHeks

They don’t know how to fix it.

And don’t know how to break it to us

Destai

Asdara wrote: »

Is that the community management plan ZOS choose in regard of these points? (https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56681):

- A HUGE increase of new and old returning player whiling to invest a lot of time and money into the game.
- The increasing DESYNCS/LAG/FPS drop and the MASSIVE complaint of the community about performance for month if not years.
- An incoming Massive PVP event that will most likely submerge the dying servers.
- The "DEV TRACKER" being absolutely silent about these issues.
- NO clear MAP for the future of the game, where is the spellcrafting? The rework of CP? The improvement in class identity?
- Almost 2 MONTH since the last "news" about the improvements plan.

Here's an attempt to keep the dialogue civil and constructive​ between us.
It's really hard to find information about where the game is going, what are the devs plan?
Could you maybe break the silence, so we can stop the crying storm (harrow?) that the forum as become and start something more healthy?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Just to echo this, what constitutes better ways? None of those people engage in conversation here, so who's determining the "better"? Better for who? Analytics? Shareholders? Sensitive developer feelings?

Thoragaal

Asdara wrote: »

Is that the community management plan ZOS choose in regard of these points? (https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56681):

- A HUGE increase of new and old returning player whiling to invest a lot of time and money into the game.
- The increasing DESYNCS/LAG/FPS drop and the MASSIVE complaint of the community about performance for month if not years.
- An incoming Massive PVP event that will most likely submerge the dying servers.
- The "DEV TRACKER" being absolutely silent about these issues.
- NO clear MAP for the future of the game, where is the spellcrafting? The rework of CP? The improvement in class identity?
- Almost 2 MONTH since the last "news" about the improvements plan.

Here's an attempt to keep the dialogue civil and constructive​ between us.
It's really hard to find information about where the game is going, what are the devs plan?
Could you maybe break the silence, so we can stop the crying storm (harrow?) that the forum as become and start something more healthy?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I hope this might help you out a bit : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/531219/greymoor-update-26-launch-game-director-update/p1

Edit: I think there's not much else for them to say at this point, partially because they're waiting to see if the player base will go down again. ESO had a huge influx of players in April, due to covid-19. We also had more people coming due to Greymoor. The effects are still echoing through the system and needs to settle down, to get a better "base line view" of player activity.

gatekeeper13

To be honest, I would really like ZOS to CANCEL any performance plans. Because since these "performance improvement plans" started, ESO runs like trash. They are only going to make things even worse.

Elsonso

It has been three weeks. It takes them longer to decide what to order for lunch.

I'm not saying I'm happy with what they are doing, but I really don't expect to hear back from them until much later this year on the subject.

Destai

Thoragaal wrote: »

Asdara wrote: »

Is that the community management plan ZOS choose in regard of these points? (https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56681):

- A HUGE increase of new and old returning player whiling to invest a lot of time and money into the game.
- The increasing DESYNCS/LAG/FPS drop and the MASSIVE complaint of the community about performance for month if not years.
- An incoming Massive PVP event that will most likely submerge the dying servers.
- The "DEV TRACKER" being absolutely silent about these issues.
- NO clear MAP for the future of the game, where is the spellcrafting? The rework of CP? The improvement in class identity?
- Almost 2 MONTH since the last "news" about the improvements plan.

Here's an attempt to keep the dialogue civil and constructive​ between us.
It's really hard to find information about where the game is going, what are the devs plan?
Could you maybe break the silence, so we can stop the crying storm (harrow?) that the forum as become and start something more healthy?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I hope this might help you out a bit : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/531219/greymoor-update-26-launch-game-director-update/p1

Edit: I think there's not much else for them to say at this point, partially because they're waiting to see if the player base will go down again. ESO had a huge influx of players in April, due to covid-19. We also had more people coming due to Greymoor. The effects are still echoing through the system and needs to settle down, to get a better "base line view" of player activity.

I can't say I agree. Performance is all anyone talks about on here and they should be saying something, regardless if there's something that can immediately be done. They've eroded a lot of trust because they under-communicate and over-moderate on top of these issues. The situation was exacerbated by April's influx, but these issues are far from recent. It needs to be a continual dialogue at this point.

ItsJustHashtag

The best course of action. Would be to finish out this year with the already in plan projects then starting immediately after the remaining projects shift all focus and resources to fixing the game. But that would be too smart of a decision.

ItsJustHashtag

Thoragaal wrote: »

Asdara wrote: »

Is that the community management plan ZOS choose in regard of these points? (https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56681):

- A HUGE increase of new and old returning player whiling to invest a lot of time and money into the game.
- The increasing DESYNCS/LAG/FPS drop and the MASSIVE complaint of the community about performance for month if not years.
- An incoming Massive PVP event that will most likely submerge the dying servers.
- The "DEV TRACKER" being absolutely silent about these issues.
- NO clear MAP for the future of the game, where is the spellcrafting? The rework of CP? The improvement in class identity?
- Almost 2 MONTH since the last "news" about the improvements plan.

Here's an attempt to keep the dialogue civil and constructive​ between us.
It's really hard to find information about where the game is going, what are the devs plan?
Could you maybe break the silence, so we can stop the crying storm (harrow?) that the forum as become and start something more healthy?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I hope this might help you out a bit : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/531219/greymoor-update-26-launch-game-director-update/p1

Edit: I think there's not much else for them to say at this point, partially because they're waiting to see if the player base will go down again. ESO had a huge influx of players in April, due to covid-19. We also had more people coming due to Greymoor. The effects are still echoing through the system and needs to settle down, to get a better "base line view" of player activity.

All of these issues that are currently highlighted now have existed for years. It’s just now creeping into the broader audience of the game.

idk

lucky_Sage wrote: »

All I know is Zos better hope new world is a flop.
I love this game but I know that them not getting a better server is The devs it’s the suits.
But yeah haven’t thought about it but there isn’t much dev communication as there was. I mean look at the greymoor reveal all they did was talk RP is hey didn’t talk anything about CP changes balance server preference.

Most ESO players will not find New World is the game for them. It is mostly PvP based even though they have incorporated a hard opt-in/opt-out system and put restrictions on war. It has little to no storytelling and is not expected to have any dungeons at launch. I enjoyed the combat design for it' simplicity but I expect only serious PvP players who are into team-based PvP (and farming materials) will enjoy playing it for any length of time. The majority of ESO will find the game boring.

DaveMoeDee

lucky_Sage wrote: »

All I know is Zos better hope new world is a flop.
I love this game but I know that them not getting a better server is The devs it’s the suits.
But yeah haven’t thought about it but there isn’t much dev communication as there was. I mean look at the greymoor reveal all they did was talk RP is hey didn’t talk anything about CP changes balance server preference.

What is New World? Another game? Why is it relevant? Are you familiar with the countless past posts with the same warnings of games on the horizon?

And what does "CP changes balance server preference" mean? How do CP do that?

Elsonso

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

What is New World? Another game? Why is it relevant? Are you familiar with the countless past posts with the same warnings of games on the horizon?

It is probably important to note that ESO died when Wildstar came out. No one has played ESO since then.

The undertaker gave up on ESO years ago and replaced the "date of death" with a white board because it was too expensive to carve the latest date into a new headstone.

deLioncourt

lucky_Sage wrote: »

All I know is Zos better hope new world is a flop.
I love this game but I know that them not getting a better server is The devs it’s the suits.
But yeah haven’t thought about it but there isn’t much dev communication as there was. I mean look at the greymoor reveal all they did was talk RP is hey didn’t talk anything about CP changes balance server preference.

New World is going to be a mega-flop, mark my words. That game looks like complete and total $#!%

exeeter702

lucky_Sage wrote: »

All I know is Zos better hope new world is a flop.
I love this game but I know that them not getting a better server is The devs it’s the suits.
But yeah haven’t thought about it but there isn’t much dev communication as there was. I mean look at the greymoor reveal all they did was talk RP is hey didn’t talk anything about CP changes balance server preference.

It's becoming nauseating seeing people reference new world like it's some 1 to 1 replacement for eso. The only people giving a *** about that game are those that think cyrodil pvp is in theory great and just not executed well here. That game looks about as thematically appealing as watching paint dry.

I'm not defending this game mind you, but siege based open world pvp will always be a gimmick where numbers matter more than individual ability, and where the burden of performance is heavily lightened.

If that game had an actually interesting game world with engaging environments instead of being a juiced up (insert mid budget online survival game title here) maybe I would be a cautiously optimistic onlooker. But as far as I'm concerned that *** looks about as wack as ashes of creation, you know... the other "eso replacement".

idk

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

All I know is Zos better hope new world is a flop.
I love this game but I know that them not getting a better server is The devs it’s the suits.
But yeah haven’t thought about it but there isn’t much dev communication as there was. I mean look at the greymoor reveal all they did was talk RP is hey didn’t talk anything about CP changes balance server preference.

What is New World? Another game? Why is it relevant? Are you familiar with the countless past posts with the same warnings of games on the horizon?

And what does "CP changes balance server preference" mean? How do CP do that?

I remember those who called out that Wildstar and ArcheAge would spell the end of ESO. Wildstar could not even make it after they switched to F2P.

idk

deLioncourt wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

All I know is Zos better hope new world is a flop.
I love this game but I know that them not getting a better server is The devs it’s the suits.
But yeah haven’t thought about it but there isn’t much dev communication as there was. I mean look at the greymoor reveal all they did was talk RP is hey didn’t talk anything about CP changes balance server preference.

New World is going to be a mega-flop, mark my words. That game looks like complete and total $#!%

I agree that there is no real depth to the game. They had to pull back from the full-on open-world PvP design they originally had and decided they will or may add some PvE group content but it has no real storyline. Just lots of farming materials.

exeeter702

idk wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

All I know is Zos better hope new world is a flop.
I love this game but I know that them not getting a better server is The devs it’s the suits.
But yeah haven’t thought about it but there isn’t much dev communication as there was. I mean look at the greymoor reveal all they did was talk RP is hey didn’t talk anything about CP changes balance server preference.

What is New World? Another game? Why is it relevant? Are you familiar with the countless past posts with the same warnings of games on the horizon?

And what does "CP changes balance server preference" mean? How do CP do that?

I remember those who called out that Wildstar and ArcheAge would spell the end of ESO. Wildstar could not even make it after they switched to F2P.

Not really with wildstar. Wildstar and eso were sibling mmos. They both released very close to one another. Eso was barely out for a month which is well within the incubation period of an mmos release and while its initial reception was lukewarm, the game was not out long enough for players to really solidify their opinions.

Mizael

This

lemonizzle

I don't know, can we? heh

I think, as many others, that there are multiple issues at once present, which cannot be revealed by the order of higher ups. The "suits" not willing to invest into huge upgrades, or to buy more servers, no motivation or willpower to make an eso 2 with a better engine, and just having reached the limitations of the current one is just a few things that cannot be acknowledged without expecting shareholder losses, subscription ends etc. Which means the dev team taking the blame, while having to feed "little lies" to us, hands tied and avoiding unnecessary communication. This is entirely possible.
The year long performance plan failed, many issues still present or became worse: for whatever reason it seems like they are just poking at the code, trying to see what works without breaking it even more.
Could it be that the game became expanded too much for it's own good? Be it effects, calculations, content or simply playerbase. Maybe even the base game coders in 2013-4 did not expect ESO to grow so much.

idk

exeeter702 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

All I know is Zos better hope new world is a flop.
I love this game but I know that them not getting a better server is The devs it’s the suits.
But yeah haven’t thought about it but there isn’t much dev communication as there was. I mean look at the greymoor reveal all they did was talk RP is hey didn’t talk anything about CP changes balance server preference.

What is New World? Another game? Why is it relevant? Are you familiar with the countless past posts with the same warnings of games on the horizon?

And what does "CP changes balance server preference" mean? How do CP do that?

I remember those who called out that Wildstar and ArcheAge would spell the end of ESO. Wildstar could not even make it after they switched to F2P.

Not really with wildstar. Wildstar and eso were sibling mmos. They both released very close to one another. Eso was barely out for a month which is well within the incubation period of an mmos release and while its initial reception was lukewarm, the game was not out long enough for players to really solidify their opinions.

Yes really. It was that quick people were saying Wildstar and ArcheAge would steal the show due to ESO's poor state at launch. Heck, people have been saying ESO is dying since the first month it came out. People were taking about leaving or others leaving for Wildstar from the start.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/108303/is-your-guild-bleeding-members-to-wildstar/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/100967/wildstar-here-i-come
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/105476/are-you-moving-to-wildstar
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/111555/wildstar-vs-eso/p1

Granted, it is hard to find specific threads from over 6 years ago but those still demonstrate the fact that people were talking about leaving ESO for WIldstar. Heck, there was over two months between the launch of both games to bring about discussion.

WhyMustItBe

lucky_Sage wrote: »

All I know is Zos better hope new world is a flop.

For good or ill, Amazon's attempt to cash in on the MMO market, will most certainly fail.

Good for ESO, bad for people who would like a little diversity and a chance to play on a next gen engine.

The main reason is sadly the same as what doomed Black Desert Online to be a second rate performer in terms of profit margins: The developers mind boggling disregard for abundant market data for 20 years showing less than 40% of the MMO consumers regularly participate in or enjoy PVP.

This is fine, except that these upstart attempts to milk the MMO cash cow insist on chasing the wrong trend, falling victim to vocal minority syndrom, and putting FORCED PVP into their games. With that one mistake, BDO went from expensive modern engine and top dollar art team investment, to B-rate indie level profits (and losses) in one move. Epic fail.

The attempts to shore up their shortsightedness with over the top pay to win cash shops while doubling down on their denial that forced PVP can work did NOT help their business resume.

Now New World is preparing to be the next to ignore decades of overwhelming market data to push a self destructive game design FORCING players into open world PVP rather than encouraging it as an ALTERNATE aspect of the game, and thus, history will repeat and they will lose their investment and scramble to compensate for foolishness with cash shops as well, and ultimately fail.

My question is, why haven't companies learned to SKIP this step yet, and NOT force PVP, and so NOT tank their subscriptions with inevitable griefer paradise 10-year old internet tough guy syndrom ruining every aspect of their investment, thus NOT having to overcompensate by scrambling at a pay to win cash shop that only makes the world hate them more?

Why not just accept this design does not work and ADAPT accordingly? PVP = OPTIONAL is the only path to success as anything but a 2nd rate cell phone distraction and short term cash grab in this market. Perhaps they should stick to making Angry Birds.

Ackwalan

lucky_Sage wrote: »

All I know is Zos better hope new world is a flop.
I love this game but I know that them not getting a better server is The devs it’s the suits.
But yeah haven’t thought about it but there isn’t much dev communication as there was. I mean look at the greymoor reveal all they did was talk RP is hey didn’t talk anything about CP changes balance server preference.

New World is not going to be what people are hoping/looking for. The PvP is a 50 vs 50 BG match fighting who owns the guild trader spot. It won't even be an everyday fight where you can just jump in.

Leveling and skills will be based on which weapon and armor you use, it doesn't look like there will be any "classes" That may work out, depending on how many "skill points" you have. Or, you may be stuck with that throwing axe, that was cool in the starter zone, but doesn't fit later in the game. But you are stuck with it because you don't have the points to open another skill line to make it worth while.

You can go to the New World site and see many promo videos but very few actual game play videos. Remember the game Rift? It also had a lot of potential and new ideas, but fell flat.

WhyMustItBe

This is why IF they can get the performance thing nailed down in PVP, and maybe continue adding new options like War Mode flagging for open world instanced PVP, new Cyrodiil-like zones, etc., ESO has one of the top implementations of MMO PVP on the market.

For all the flak they get for performance in PVP, at least they understand not to force it on people.

vamp_emily

It's really hard to find information about where the game is going, what are the devs plan?

The information may not be ready available but actions speak louder than words.

Their plan is very clear. Not fixing the terrible performance issues shows their intent was to make PvP players quit. But that was not enough, players continue to stay, cry and play even if they had a hard time moving in the game. So guess what? Dev's plan to drop a huge bomb on Cyrodill very soon. Players call it, "Midyear Mayhem" event devs call it, "RAGE 2020" their plan is to force the servers to explode and have PvP players RAGE quit.
.
.

Jaraal

SmukkeHeks wrote: »

They don’t know how to fix it.

And don’t know how to break it to us

Unfortunately, this is the truth. How many times have they used words like trying, looking into, and other vague terms when explaining their strategy for fixing all these issues?

exeeter702

idk wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

All I know is Zos better hope new world is a flop.
I love this game but I know that them not getting a better server is The devs it’s the suits.
But yeah haven’t thought about it but there isn’t much dev communication as there was. I mean look at the greymoor reveal all they did was talk RP is hey didn’t talk anything about CP changes balance server preference.

What is New World? Another game? Why is it relevant? Are you familiar with the countless past posts with the same warnings of games on the horizon?

And what does "CP changes balance server preference" mean? How do CP do that?

I remember those who called out that Wildstar and ArcheAge would spell the end of ESO. Wildstar could not even make it after they switched to F2P.

Not really with wildstar. Wildstar and eso were sibling mmos. They both released very close to one another. Eso was barely out for a month which is well within the incubation period of an mmos release and while its initial reception was lukewarm, the game was not out long enough for players to really solidify their opinions.

Yes really. It was that quick people were saying Wildstar and ArcheAge would steal the show due to ESO's poor state at launch. Heck, people have been saying ESO is dying since the first month it came out. People were taking about leaving or others leaving for Wildstar from the start.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/108303/is-your-guild-bleeding-members-to-wildstar/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/100967/wildstar-here-i-come
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/105476/are-you-moving-to-wildstar
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/111555/wildstar-vs-eso/p1

Granted, it is hard to find specific threads from over 6 years ago but those still demonstrate the fact that people were talking about leaving ESO for WIldstar. Heck, there was over two months between the launch of both games to bring about discussion.

There was nothing to steal.... you may have had some disgruntled players upset with the product that zos delivered at launch, but it was not this widespread wildstar is going to kill eso, Eso wasnt even living yet. Its was mostly loud mouthbreathers being hyperbolic. The actual situation was that once both mmos were out for a while, wildstar was not exactly a dumpster fire and players considered moving to it because eso wasnt very strong itself. That is not the same as claiming wildstar was going to kill eso when it launched. Those are two very different sentiments.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

After some review, we would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the community rules we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-