What Class is Missing from ESO

Jaraal

Ratzkifal wrote: »

First of all, the bard cannot just be called "Bard" because it needs to be distinct from the ordinary profession, indicating that they are more than just simple musicians.
Secondly, we need a source of power for the Bard that grants them these abilities. It cannot be simple magic, because then they would just be ordinary mages and play music as their pastime. That wouldn't make them play instruments to cast their spells.

War has always had martial music; for morale, inspiration, sense of urgency, as well as coded battlefield instructions in the music.

In EverQuest, bards could sing songs of DPS haste, resource restoration, travel speed, DOTs, snares, and mesmerization (DPS reduction of NPCs, or even enchanting them to stop attacking.) Their songs were channels that they could layer and overlap, so the best bards could produce multiple effects at once. It also cost resources, so efficiency was at a premium. It was a difficult, but very rewarding class to play. And not only group support focused, but bards were excellent kiters and soloers as well.

You had to find sheet music (recipes to learn new songs), just like regular magic classes had to find and memorize spells. The skills tree method of ESO could work as well, learning and getting better at new songs the more you use them.

Noxavian

Jaraal wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

First of all, the bard cannot just be called "Bard" because it needs to be distinct from the ordinary profession, indicating that they are more than just simple musicians.
Secondly, we need a source of power for the Bard that grants them these abilities. It cannot be simple magic, because then they would just be ordinary mages and play music as their pastime. That wouldn't make them play instruments to cast their spells.

War has always had martial music; for morale, inspiration, sense of urgency, as well as coded battlefield instructions in the music.

In EverQuest, bards could sing songs of DPS haste, resource restoration, travel speed, DOTs, snares, and mesmerization (DPS reduction of NPCs, or even enchanting them to stop attacking.) Their songs were channels that they could layer and overlap, so the best bards could produce multiple effects at once. It also cost resources, so efficiency was at a premium. It was a difficult, but very rewarding class to play. And not only group support focused, but bards were excellent kitecrazysoloers as well.

You had to find sheet music (recipes to learn new songs), just like regular magic classes had to find and memorize spells. The skills tree method of ESO could work as well, learning and getting better at new songs the more you use them.

In ESO bards don't use magic, though. They have songs, yes, but they don't cast magic through songs. The idea of a bard class is pretty wack in ESO. At that point why not go play FFXIV, an MMO that makes sense to have a bard class in?

Not too sure why you're bringing up Everquest, this is Elder Scrolls, not everquest.

summerkat

Jaraal wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

First of all, the bard cannot just be called "Bard" because it needs to be distinct from the ordinary profession, indicating that they are more than just simple musicians.
Secondly, we need a source of power for the Bard that grants them these abilities. It cannot be simple magic, because then they would just be ordinary mages and play music as their pastime. That wouldn't make them play instruments to cast their spells.

War has always had martial music; for morale, inspiration, sense of urgency, as well as coded battlefield instructions in the music.

In EverQuest, bards could sing songs of DPS haste, resource restoration, travel speed, DOTs, snares, and mesmerization (DPS reduction of NPCs, or even enchanting them to stop attacking.) Their songs were channels that they could layer and overlap, so the best bards could produce multiple effects at once. It also cost resources, so efficiency was at a premium. It was a difficult, but very rewarding class to play. And not only group support focused, but bards were excellent kiters and soloers as well.

You had to find sheet music (recipes to learn new songs), just like regular magic classes had to find and memorize spells. The skills tree method of ESO could work as well, learning and getting better at new songs the more you use them.

I completely agree 100% with Bards singing and using music to enhance combat, morale, healing, movement, etc. It could be more like an enchantment because music and singing make a lot of people happy, positive, encouraged and that isn't "magic" as much as morale. So maybe add a morale counter that when its higher you do more damage but as the fight wears on or your morale wears down then you need to refill it. I mean at the median everyone has a neutral morale and that would let people fight as normal, questing, etc. but if you had a bard, depending on the bard's skill at their class, they could add bonus and buffs to the morale counter and that could help fights be easier. However it is based on skill so if the bard doesn't have a lot of skill there is not as much of a chance to boost morale as someone who has built the class but having a bard at low levels could increase the chance in a group or solo play a little but not always. There could be an offset of singing out of tune or playing an instrument incorrectly and that could drop morale individually and in a group nature. So there are added benefits but at a cost of RNG.

I think that could add some depth because historically in RL and in Lore a Bard was a traveling musician, singer, performer who made people forget their troubles and gave people hope and encouragement they didn't get in their dreary lives. On the battlefield there were drummers and musicians that played to boost morale (Revolutionary War) and it could make the difference in psychological strength. And there is also a lot of Bard Lore in Fantasy/MMO Genre as well that could add a depth to ESO that the Elder Scrolls have with bards in the single player games.

Benzux

It has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, but classes such as "Bard" and "Monk" would work very differently from what many people are familiar with from other MMO's and D&D. I have been working on an Elder Scrolls system/setting for 5th edition, so the issue with these classes has come up for myself as well during it.

Monks in other fantasy traditionally use some sort of internal "life energy" to fuel their martial arts (usually called either Ki or Chi), but Ki isn't really a thing in the Elder Scrolls. In my homebrew system, however, I flavoured the whole thing as Monks using Magicka instead, as Magicka is found in every living being, thus satisfying the "mystical" side of being a Monk. And the martial side is simple: the Khajiiti Claw-Dances. Ancient martial arts, some of which we know are capable of producing magical effects (Note one of the World Bosses in Southern Elsweyr). If ZoS were to add a skill line for being a monk (I would be personally against a full class), I could accept it being a combination of these two elements: Magicka-infused Khajiiti martial arts.

As for Bards, as has been said, magical music isn't really a thing either (and before someone links the UESP page for Tonal Architecture again, let me remind you that the only race that managed to control Tonal forces were the Dwemer, so no random bloke who plays the lute in a bar is going to be able to bend reality and turn others' minds to mush), and "Bards" are really just spellswords who speak first and strike second, and who might play an instrument on the side. Their music can inspire, but blowing some air through a stick with holes in it ain't going to cause anything to burst into flames. Once again, I would be more on the side of a Guild skill line (Bards College in Solitude, anyone?) rather than a full-on class, and even then, it could lean more to the side of an RP skill line (a little akin to DB/TG, but not exactly), rather than a combat orientated one.

Out of the other suggestions in this thread, the only other one that really stuck out was the inclusion of an "Artificer" who works with Dwemer technology. And for that, I would just simply say a hard no. People who understand how Dwemer mechanisms work are extremely rare (such as Calcelmo from Skyrim) or their skills are at amateur-level (Raynor Vanos, for example), who have managed to figure out how something works through trial and error. As such, it wouldn't really make sense for a class that focused entirely on it, as that would imply that this knowledge, while specialized, was common enough that anyone could learn it, which it definitely isn't.

So, yeah, while more classes could be interesting (though probably not necessary), the suggestions/wishes people here seem have would not really fit or work out. One thing I would like to say is that we have to remember that ESO is an MMORPG, so even if the kind of "class" you want to play doesn't exist, or doesn't directly translate into game mechanics, that doesn't stop you from RP:ing

Nanfoodle

I think the fail with the idea of Bards, Monks or any other class not standard in TES is people start picturing versions of that class from other games. Any skill line or class can be brought in ESO with an ESO twist and style. I love my EQ bard but I never want to see that class in this game. I want to see Zen creative style in this and any class/skill line they make. I trust Zen with their creative style.

Fajin

I don't think the classes are missing. I think we don't have enough weapon options. Add more melee variants, add more ranged variants, add free-handed magic + combinations with it (1 handed and magic for example) etc.

Jaraal

Nanfoodle wrote: »

I think the fail with the idea of Bards, Monks or any other class not standard in TES is people start picturing versions of that class from other games. Any skill line or class can be brought in ESO with an ESO twist and style. I love my EQ bard but I never want to see that class in this game. I want to see Zen creative style in this and any class/skill line they make. I trust Zen with their creative style.

The problem is that there has to be some sort of believability that doesn't stray far from the traditions of fantasy literature and games. And most of that is already covered by your basic triad: warrior, mage, and thief/assassin, or permutations thereof.

Creativity is limited by what you can get your audience to buy into. If they can't relate to it, it's a dead concept. And I think the idea pool for types of fighting classes have been mostly used up. It would be cool if someone came up with something no one has ever thought of before, but it would have to be universally accepted and salable before they would even think of investing a dime into it.

rexagamemnon

would like to see magic morphs of weapon abilities to bring the hybrid builds into a viable option and "witch hunter" style RP possible

daim

Rogue!

VocalThought

Fajin wrote: »

I don't think the classes are missing. I think we don't have enough weapon options. Add more melee variants, add more ranged variants, add free-handed magic + combinations with it (1 handed and magic for example) etc.

Isn't all the class skills in the game free-handed magic? I know there are destruction and restoration staves, but what else outside of class skills, psijic, and mage's guild magic are you looking for?

TheImperfect

Technomage/Technofighter

A class that uses clockwork city and/or dwemer technology and directed electrical energy to fight.
The class could have gadget skills, like the control rods etc in combat. Summons of bots.

VocalThought

I am definitely open to the idea of new classes. It just seems like a lot of people's ideas can already fit in with the classes we have, despite if they're not optimal. I really don't see the point of a Bard or a Monk class in this game. I feel like all Bard skills can be found in the Assualt or Support skill trees. I think for making a monk, they just need to add a Unarmed Skill Line, not a whole other class. I think the biggest issue is that people may feel like that can't be as creative with making a character because their character might not be as playable in PVP or in group content because of the balance to the game. All builds aren't viable. I haven't seen anyone play the game with only one skill line used, which says a lot.

Khatou

A real Ice mage!

Otherwise an idea of class which came to me would be a class which could control the mobs of the game so that it turns against them that could be funny with control system and see cloning.

Eirikir

I don't know man. I just want fistfighting as a weapon skill and a class... any class... that has disease buffs like the DK has for poison. I sort of wish Warden would be shifted to disease/ice the way they changed DK from fire to poison/fire.

Wifeaggro13

summerkat wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

First of all, the bard cannot just be called "Bard" because it needs to be distinct from the ordinary profession, indicating that they are more than just simple musicians.
Secondly, we need a source of power for the Bard that grants them these abilities. It cannot be simple magic, because then they would just be ordinary mages and play music as their pastime. That wouldn't make them play instruments to cast their spells.

War has always had martial music; for morale, inspiration, sense of urgency, as well as coded battlefield instructions in the music.

In EverQuest, bards could sing songs of DPS haste, resource restoration, travel speed, DOTs, snares, and mesmerization (DPS reduction of NPCs, or even enchanting them to stop attacking.) Their songs were channels that they could layer and overlap, so the best bards could produce multiple effects at once. It also cost resources, so efficiency was at a premium. It was a difficult, but very rewarding class to play. And not only group support focused, but bards were excellent kiters and soloers as well.

You had to find sheet music (recipes to learn new songs), just like regular magic classes had to find and memorize spells. The skills tree method of ESO could work as well, learning and getting better at new songs the more you use them.

I completely agree 100% with Bards singing and using music to enhance combat, morale, healing, movement, etc. It could be more like an enchantment because music and singing make a lot of people happy, positive, encouraged and that isn't "magic" as much as morale. So maybe add a morale counter that when its higher you do more damage but as the fight wears on or your morale wears down then you need to refill it. I mean at the median everyone has a neutral morale and that would let people fight as normal, questing, etc. but if you had a bard, depending on the bard's skill at their class, they could add bonus and buffs to the morale counter and that could help fights be easier. However it is based on skill so if the bard doesn't have a lot of skill there is not as much of a chance to boost morale as someone who has built the class but having a bard at low levels could increase the chance in a group or solo play a little but not always. There could be an offset of singing out of tune or playing an instrument incorrectly and that could drop morale individually and in a group nature. So there are added benefits but at a cost of RNG.

I think that could add some depth because historically in RL and in Lore a Bard was a traveling musician, singer, performer who made people forget their troubles and gave people hope and encouragement they didn't get in their dreary lives. On the battlefield there were drummers and musicians that played to boost morale (Revolutionary War) and it could make the difference in psychological strength. And there is also a lot of Bard Lore in Fantasy/MMO Genre as well that could add a depth to ESO that the Elder Scrolls have with bards in the single player games.

the problem is utility and CC are non existent in ESO in a role basis its all dps

Khatou

VocalThought wrote: »

I'll know there's a lot of classes in the other Elder Scroll games, but it seems like ESO did s great job squeezing all the previous game classes into the original four and then adding the 2 new classes that fit in lore, but never were never part of the previous game classes. In fact, only the Soccerer and Nightblade were actual classes and they even manage to combine abilities that were associated with other classes or independent of classes. So what's missing and what do you want to come?

or maybe not finally, because in the end everyone claims their favorite class and not to mention the disappointment of players with draft classes or certain branches have no place in the name of the class.

On my side I'm starting to make old MMORPGs (although still current) and it's a real pleasure to have a class system like the old one, which makes classes much more logical than what ESO tried to do.

VocalThought

Khatou wrote: »

A real Ice mage!

With all the Ice Powers in the game, you can't create an Ice Mage. You could use a Warden with Ice Staff, one skill bar for each, unless there's particular abilities you think are missing.

Artorias24

Battlemage would be perfect.

Using heavy armor, summoned weapons with offensive spells. Could also make the dream of hybrids come true.

There are million ways to make a cool class with nice animations and effects. Fun and powerfull skills to put in but i dont have strong belives in devs to come up with something decent.

I mean necromancer doesnt have any zombies. Only some spooky skeletons.....

Noxavian

Artorias24 wrote: »

Battlemage would be perfect.

Using heavy armor, summoned weapons with offensive spells. Could also make the dream of hybrids come true.

There are million ways to make a cool class with nice animations and effects. Fun and powerfull skills to put in but i dont have strong belives in devs to come up with something decent.

I mean necromancer doesnt have any zombies. Only some spooky skeletons.....

Necros can't even summon a melee minion hah.

No sword wielding skellies or zombie boyos.

Chaos2088

Bards/Minstrels
Battlemage
Beserker/Barbaria/Sharman
Engineer/Technomage
Monk

That would bring it to 11 classes, pretty sure covers all the types of fantasy characters

Would add a proper cyromage but kinda covered by Warden.

TheShadowScout

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

Barbarian

=stamina warden. Next?

Stamina warden=Druid/Nature Magic, not anywhere close to being a barbarian. Fail.

Druid/Nature "magic" means magica build.
Stamina build means physical weapons.
Weapons + nature boy/girl = ?...
Barbarian!
(I mean, come on, as if the bear to play "beastmaster" was not a total giveaway... )

Noxavian wrote: »

In ESO bards don't use magic, though.

Let's look at some of the other TES games then...
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Classes#Bard

A Bard is the proverbial "Jack of all Trades". They are able to perform many tasks, including but not limited to critical strikes, weapons skill, picking locks/pockets, and magic.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Classes

Bards are the most versatile class, learned in many different arts. They are familiar with weaponry, magic, and the thiefly talents.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Bard

Bards are loremasters and storytellers. They crave adventure for the wisdom and insight to be gained, and must depend on sword, shield, spell and enchantment to preserve them from the perils of their educational experiences.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes#Bard

Intelligent and personable, they prefer to accomplish tasks with their words first, and sword second.

In EACH incarnation of "bards" in TES gaming, they had a little bit of magic. Mostly illusion magic, yeah, but they DO use magic.
You were saying?

Noxavian wrote: »

They have songs, yes, but they don't cast magic through songs.

Except when they do.
We have some questings were obviously magic is or has been cast through music. Be it a Altmer in Greenshade whose wife you find by following an magical melody, or a bardic college in the Rift cast under a curse that can only be dispelled with the right song, be it dwemer tonal shennannigans or the war horns in cyrodil, the concept of musical magic IS a part of the elder scrolls lore, and even ESO.

Should it be expanded into something combat-worthy for us to use on our characters?
That is for ZOS to decide.
It would totally make just as much sense to not make it the combat-support musical magic skill line many wish for, but make it an "for entertainment only" crafting skill line (except you don't craft a thingie, you craft a -performance-, and gain a bit of gold through that with daily performance writs or something like that)

Is it worth a full class?
Nope. Classes in ESO are different things, here a "bard" would be more akin to a build that could be based on several classes...

Would it make sense as guild skill line much like Psijic?
Yup. Very much so, IF the powers that be decide they want this. But then I would state that, would I not: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387560/additional-guild-ideas-mk-ii

Fajin wrote: »

I don't think the classes are missing. I think we don't have enough weapon options. Add more melee variants, add more ranged variants, add free-handed magic + combinations with it (1 handed and magic for example) etc.

I would agree with that: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371862/additional-weapon-skill-ideas-mk-ii/p1

mrsrobot wrote: »

Technomage/Technofighter

A class that uses clockwork city and/or dwemer technology and directed electrical energy to fight.
The class could have gadget skills, like the control rods etc in combat. Summons of bots.

Nope.
That kind of thing is way too little understood and way too rarely even studied to be a class. At -best- there could be an "uses ill understood gadget" setup as we see for some NPCs in some quests for our players... I for one would make it like the "scholar" idea I once had for more guilds, as one flavor gizmo among several... but that's about it. (At least for ESO - if they ever make a TES game set in the firth or sixth era... it would make for a fun playing!)

Khatou wrote: »

A real Ice mage!

They decided on warden as the ice mage, and that's where the ice magic is in ESO. They are not gonna do any new ice class after already having that. So the best you could hipe for for an "ice mage" is that someday they might actually follow up the same line of through I had with my specialization idea: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/492733/class-specialization-idea/p1

Personally I wished for a great many, MANY times that they had split the classes in ESO in two parts, and kept the "power source/flavor" (draconic, aedric, daedric, blood, nature, death) seperate from a "elemental" (fire, earth, ice, shock, light, darkness) part, and let people mix and match as they like... Alas. paths not taken. (But it would have been soooo cool!)

Artorias24 wrote: »

Battlemage would be perfect.
Using heavy armor, summoned weapons with offensive spells. Could also make the dream of hybrids come true.

That's a build, not a class!
And all the bits are already in the game. Sorta.
You can make a heavy armor sorceror. You can summon weapons (albeit for one blow only). You can play a hybrid (albeit at a painfully reduced effectiveness)

And worse... your "idea" like so many here shows a flawed understanding of "class" in the ESO game system.
Remember... the main point of ESO is free armor & weapons selection!!!
So, any concept that hinges on some weapon choice ("Monk = punching things!") or armor setup ("Battlemage = heavy armor spellcaster") is unsuitable as class, which by the very nature of the ESO setup HAS to work with every build option, every armor setup, every weapon choice...

Anhedonie

Bard. Alteration magic as a whole is very underrepresented in ESO. Gonna suck though with all these debuffs and buffs.

Khatou

VocalThought wrote: »

Khatou wrote: »

A real Ice mage!

With all the Ice Powers in the game, you can't create an Ice Mage. You could use a Warden with Ice Staff, one skill bar for each, unless there's particular abilities you think are missing.

it's funny when i try this kind of class in PVP I take twice as much damage even being heavy and with various resistance sets, this game is really a shame, all this because of a class opti max damage game optics !!!

However race Nordic full impenetrable, I can sometimes allow myself 1 or 2 different traits, but well, of course we have an Ice mage on this game (in a trash class though)...

[edited for bashing and baiting]

VocalThought

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Bards/Minstrels
Battlemage
Beserker/Barbaria/Sharman
Engineer/Technomage
Monk

That would bring it to 11 classes, pretty sure covers all the types of fantasy characters

Would add a proper cyromage but kinda covered by Warden.

I think the psijic skill line would could help make these class ideas into builds with the classes we already have.
Bard: Nightblade with Psijic Spells.
Monk: Templar with Psijic Spells.
Battlemage: Any class with Heavy Armor, Two-handed or Dual Welding, and a combination of Magicka Abilities.
Berserker: Dragonknight or Waden with the Undaunted Skill line.
Barbarian: Any class
Shaman: Any class focused on Magicka

Tapio75

NECROMANCER

The class in ESo named Necromancer, is far from Necromancer that existed as NPC's in ESO and are even further away from what TES Necromancers used to be. I feel lmore like playing GW2 Necromancer but in less exiting version or a Deathknight from WOW.


Also a WARDEN or some other class that can tame any animal as a combat companion from the wilderness.

BXR_Lonestar

A true ranger class. Warden comes the closest, since it can have a bear, but the bear isn't something you would use with a stamina/bow build.

barney2525

Jedi

ThisOnePosts

Vanguard. Have them use a combo of aggressive attacks, decent utilities for survival, & also some magic. Maybe good with certain weapons only (like Stam) --- THEN we can make much better use of Hybrid Builds. LOL

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BillE Please look at this thread overall. While I know the team probably has some ideas for classes, additional classes can be awesome (and add replay value for many of us who like to play all of the classes ---- although we each probably have a main or 2).

Mortiis13

A class that is heavily focused on stamina skills with a few magicka morphs.
A monk would fit it well. Or an barbarian. Even an samurai kind of would work.

exeeter702

Mortiis13 wrote: »

A class that is heavily focused on stamina skills with a few magicka morphs.
A monk would fit it well. Or an barbarian. Even an samurai kind of would work.

Explain to me how a barbarian or monk would work while using a lightning destruction staff please.