Why nerf Iceheart?

x48rph

I just add my voice to the consensus that this was out of the blue and an uncalled for change. Like page upon page of different things on here that people are actually complaining about and here's ZOS nerfing one of the few things no one complained about. Like seriously, buff the other stuff or something, not nerf something that was just fine in order to make your new set look better.

fred4

Eormenric wrote: »

1) Player Perspective: Damage shields are prevalent and notoriously difficult to break in PvP. Developer Perspective: It's all good.
For anyone frustrated by a near-death player spamming Harness Magicka, any nerf to a damage shield is welcome. The current options to break damage shields quickly (Champion Points Shattering Blows and Medium Armor Shield Breaker) are not only exclusive to the CP System, but also Stamina users (I guess Magicka users have an easier time breaking shields naturally?). This is to say that damage shields in PvP need to feel especially balanced.

Do you PvP? Cause Iceheart is not a (common) PvP set. With battle spirit the shield is just not worth slotting over alternatives, such as plain resistances, Bloodspawn, Troll King or an aggressive set - Skoria, Zaan, Velidreth, Selene, ... - you know, sets that PvPers actually use. Bringing PvP into it is a bogus argument.

Yamenstein

Makes no sense, honestly.

I can get behind the damage nerf and even the shield size. But cooldown!? Really?!

I know it procs often, but it's already based on the condition you do critical damage, and then after that it's a 20% chance of critting as well.

So many other ways this could have been changed.

Better yet, buff the Monster set you're trying to promote by this nerf in the first place!

Get your head on straight Zo$

The_Lex

What I don’t understand is why ZOS screws up whatever new-chapter-hype they generate with these stupid controversial nerfs. Every.single.chapter.

Prickbojanglez

They should never be nerfing a set into complete non-use. Bring the other sets up to a fair level so that the people using iceheart now, consider switching or might see a bonus to using the new set over the old one. Dont take away with your new content, add more so theres more diversity.

But who am I kidding? Might as well toss it in a storage chest now.

Inkfingerps4

Yamenstein wrote: »

Makes no sense, honestly.

I can get behind the damage nerf and even the shield size. But cooldown!? Really?!

I know it procs often, but it's already based on the condition you do critical damage, and then after that it's a 20% chance of critting as well.

So many other ways this could have been changed.

Better yet, buff the Monster set you're trying to promote by this nerf in the first place!

Get your head on straight Zo$

Agreed! At the very least change the cooldown on Iceheart back to 6 seconds please.

Drdeath20

Nonsensical change

blur

TheInfernalRage wrote:

I will not accept that stupid reason. Disgusting logic. I seldom play this game anymore because of this kind of stupidity. Iceheart must take a nerf because your new set is a modified copy, and manifests no iota of creativity. DISGUSTING!

Saw this in another thread before it got "closed."

I find it repugnant they are quick to close threads like these but won't even *** dialogue with people.
What a craptastic team and company, seriously.

Eormenric wrote: »

I think the changes to both Iceheart and Mother Ciannait are welcomed, but too intense on the Iceheart side. Let's examine how the developer's are intending the usage for damage shields as well as players defining how these abilities and items should function based on their understanding of the game.

1) Player Perspective: Damage shields are prevalent and notoriously difficult to break in PvP. Developer Perspective: It's all good.
For anyone frustrated by a near-death player spamming Harness Magicka, any nerf to a damage shield is welcome. The current options to break damage shields quickly (Champion Points Shattering Blows and Medium Armor Shield Breaker) are not only exclusive to the CP System, but also Stamina users (I guess Magicka users have an easier time breaking shields naturally?). This is to say that damage shields in PvP need to feel especially balanced.

1. Wrong. Damage shields are extremely easy to break and Harness Magicka is laughable. Nobody built properly has a problem doing damage, moreover everyone is a trashcan zergfail spamming whatever.
Not sure what game you are playing now, but Shields got nerfed significantly over the years in size, duration, and now you can even crit them.

Lastly, I can't think of a single time I even ran into someone using this set in PvP that I didn't turn into a skidmark.
I want to reiterate this... nobody remotely average, let alone decent, is using this set in PvP for it's damage shield. If anything it's flair or a niche type of build that's not overpowered by any means. That said, making your above post (from which I quoted) is completely moot because you are equating a monster set people don't use in PvP to abilities like Harness Magicka or Hardened Ward.

No, the truth of the matter has been pointed out all over this forum. ZOS is trying to pull a fast one in a very shady way to make their new set valuable.

edit: This is going to be just one more set to add to the EVER GROWING crap pile of useless sets.

SHANKS_63

Cannot believe it got hit with 3 nerfs. I could maybe accept a compromise like "Hey, we reduced the damage" maybe, MAYBE even "Hey we reduced the damage and the size of the shield". Frig me, 12 second cooldown too?

Dusk_Coven

It's a lot of nerf all at once. Doubling the cooldown already halves its effectiveness but on top of that they want less shielding and less damage... Even nerfing just one of the three aspects should have been enough if they wanted to do something.

5cript

ZoS, do you really want to nerf a set for casuals so they buy the Dungeon DLC they can't complete?
Seems not like a smart move.

xXMeowMeowXx

I thought ZoS was done with using the sledgehammer Iceheart wasn’t even OP in the least.

Smh, they could of just been creative rather than make an inferior monster set to Iceheart to begin with.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Faulgor

I've just about had it with their stupid "standards".

For years I've felt ZOS is relying way too much on their data-driven approach. "Oh, we look at our internal metrics and there are actually a lot of people who use that set or this skill." It's a kind of blindness encouraged by the belief that all data is objective, a perfect reflection of reality, when a lot of assumptions already had to be made to collect that data.
It's an approach that is intentionally removed from the immediate gameplay experience of the players, all in the hopes of being more objective.
I'm not saying data can't inform changes, but if fun is not the main part of the equation, you can't be surprised when change after change leads to less fun in this supposed "game".

Plus, these set standards are rather arbitrary to begin with, or we wouldn't have asked for a buff to the Healing Done bonus for ages because the equivalent Spell/Weapon Power bonus is far superior.
If a well-liked set is outshining your set standards, maybe that should be an impulse to revise the bloody standards!?

pklemming

We would help newer players get Iceheart to help with their survivability while they learned the game. We didn't get it due to it's overwhelming damage, just so that they could stay alive more when grouping with us and actually learn the mechanics by being there, rather then being dragged through on their dead ass. 6 up, 6 down.. thanks. Way to help new people and those attracted back by 'Skyrim'

kijima

Hrm, interesting. A set nerf not based on PvP, that's got to be a first.

Seems dumb to me that this set gets a triple nerf, my only conclusion could be (like everyone else) that's it's to make way for new DLC. Money talks.

Very disappointed, and the reasoning of Vma being easy mode with this set isn't 100% accurate, and to add insult to injury, it's solo content we are talking about here. Who are we upsetting here? Devs?

Lumenn

My MAIN question is why should I buy any new chapters and run the content for gear? Zo$ has proven it's not worth it(if they come after ICEHEART with no complaints any gear they introduce is only useful until someone finds a way to make more money. Every update we're having to change builds. Now gear is being nerfed because the next set is sub par? What's next Zo$? Nerf all CRAFTED gear except the NEXT chapter that you'll have to run two dungeons(separate dlc each) just to reach the crafting stations? Maybe nerf crafting mats so that you can run a year long event that requires you to buy several chapters to collect the mats to craft one set? Put them in the ca$h shop to make more $$$$. This is getting ridiculous. Soon we'll all be running around with no gear and exact same skills unless you buy the new shiney Zo$ dangles. At least until the new chapter....

karekiz

IMO if it should change it should be this:

Iceheart:
1 Piece: HP (To fit with Defense theme rather than damage bonus)
2 Piece: Nerfed damage, but shield remain the same.

dem0n1k

Dumb change imo. I only ever used Iceheart on solo PVE magicka builds... just adding my voice to the protest.

Cravencat

This sledgehammer nerf to a useful defensive set is ridiculous. Iceheart is often used by players who are willing to trade DPS for survivability so they can experience more of the game's content. If ZOS is concerned that Iceheart is outperforming sets like Phoenix or Brands, why doesn't ZOS buff those sets instead of effectively removing Iceheart from the game?

karekiz

Cravencat wrote: »

If ZOS is concerned that Iceheart is outperforming sets like Phoenix or Brands, why doesn't ZOS buff those sets instead of effectively removing Iceheart from the game?

Anyone find it funny they list Phoenix, when Phoenix was used for no deaths before they nerfed it? After which they removed the one feature and nobody uses it.

Now they compare other sets to sets they nerfed into nobody using as a reason to "nerf" more sets.

Malprave

Faulgor wrote: »

I've just about had it with their stupid "standards".

For years I've felt ZOS is relying way too much on their data-driven approach. "Oh, we look at our internal metrics and there are actually a lot of people who use that set or this skill." It's a kind of blindness encouraged by the belief that all data is objective, a perfect reflection of reality, when a lot of assumptions already had to be made to collect that data.
It's an approach that is intentionally removed from the immediate gameplay experience of the players, all in the hopes of being more objective.
I'm not saying data can't inform changes, but if fun is not the main part of the equation, you can't be surprised when change after change leads to less fun in this supposed "game".

Plus, these set standards are rather arbitrary to begin with, or we wouldn't have asked for a buff to the Healing Done bonus for ages because the equivalent Spell/Weapon Power bonus is far superior.
If a well-liked set is outshining your set standards, maybe that should be an impulse to revise the bloody standards!?

Yeah, I’m thinking the whole standardization thing is garbage.

If you collect enough data, produce enough graphs and charts, and form a committee of the best minds to study the problem, you can take the joy out of anything.

Juhasow

The_Lex wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

You hear, ZOS? Nobody believes anymore in your "standards" and good intentions, not anymore. But your greed, that is easy to believe. Patch notes are turning into game of guessing what kind of embellishment on next marketing decision we'll be fed next. That's just a bloody disgrace.

And no, I don't believe that it's part of some plan as some try to present it. The frantic yo-yo 'balancing' we've seen shows that combat team has no slightest idea of big picture. Just randomly tossing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Just wait until the solo players figure out why they're dying more often. lol. They'll riot.

Same happened the weekend after players figured out cast times on ultimates and how cluncky playing with those is. There was nice riot on forum and massive threads removal. Nothing changed with cast times. ZoS doesnt care they just do what they think is right.

SHANKS_63

Dang, I only use this set for solo magicka build and doubling that cooldown is going to just kill it for me. It was so cool to have a frost theme monster set. I just, JUST golded mine out too.../sigh.

Alienoutlaw

its not just the changes that have been made that gets up my nose but the way they have tried to justify those changes, to say the set was and i quote

the value of defensive and offensive potential this set provided was leagues beyond our standards when comparing it to other sets such as Brands of the Imperium or Phoenix.

so was this before or after you nerfed those sets? and how can you compare a 5pc set with a 2pc set? what and how do you "set" your standards? collecting and collaring raw data without context and using the results to justify a change that was never needed is one thing but to use it as a smoke screen to sell us another set is an insult. this is not the 1st sneaky nerf they have pulled either who remembers the scandal of U23 (Scalebreaker) when they threw in the Sorc shield changes just before Live without a single word or PTS test?

ESO_Nightingale

Here are my rough ideas for new frost monster sets:

Chillrend: Designed for PvP (Note: I had a dungeon idea for a final boss monster to be a massive ice wraith called Chillrend, and it's death would be caused by a Glass Sword as a nod to the creation of the unique weapon seen in Oblivion and Skyrim.)


Hailthrash: Designed for PvE (Note: this means ALL Frost DoTs. including single target DoTs from Icy Conjurer or Frost Reach.)

Alienoutlaw

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Here are my rough ideas for new frost monster sets:

Chillrend: Designed for PvP (Note: I had a dungeon idea for a final boss monster to be a massive ice wraith called Chillrend, and it's death would be caused by a Glass Sword as a nod to the creation of the unique weapon seen in Oblivion and Skyrim.)


Hailthrash: Designed for PvE (Note: this means ALL Frost DoTs. including single target DoTs from Chilled, Icy Conjurer or Frost Reach.)

loving the HailThrash idea a frost version of skoria/ilambris

Tsar_Gekkou

I've never ran Iceheart and barely knew what it did, but I still have to pour one out for it. It doesn't make any sense why a set that has you sacrifice fat damage for a bit of survivability had to be nerfed. It's not like people in top trials teams ran it religiously. It was mostly for people running vMA and other solo stuff that aren't magsorcs. And all just to push a crappy new dlc set? Ugh.

mague

Please reconsider the cooldown. If shield and damage is to much, then lower it but keep the 6 seconds.

However, since the damage stops once the shield is gone i think the set is fine as it is or just needs s light adjustment.

Granicus

ZoS - failure after failure. How do you stay in business with your anti-customer attitude? You can’t keep the game working, you can’t balance anything. You expend a great deal of the time we’ve paid for ‘maintaining’ your servers EVERY WEEK, sometimes several times a week, and generally breaking even more things. All you can do is ruin what little (some) people enjoy about this game, and then spend the rest of your time cranking out new Crown Store candy to keep the company afloat.

From my observation over the past 9 months of play there is little your company does well. I’m sorry to be blunt about this but I am constantly disappointed in your actions where they do not need to be, and inaction where they are desperately needed. Devote EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the company to actually fixing problems, not nerfing things into oblivion and designing new sparkly overpriced trinkets.

As a specific example, nerfing Iceheart is just plain stupid.

Vaoh

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

I’m Ok with a nerf to Iceheart shield size. However 50% uptime is terrible. This will go in the trash along with Pirate Skeleton. Cool downs kill sets like this. At worst it should have an 8 second cool down.

The new set is also completely inaccessible to most stamina builds which do not have channeled abilities in most cases.

So we’re forcing players into a DLC monster set for a decent shield time but limiting it to 1-2 builds?

What?

Yes. But since this is ZOS, Iceheart gets a triple nerf lol.

Not one.
Not two.
THREE NERFS. And large ones at that.

Will be putting my multiple Iceheart sets into the pack mule’s inventory for permanent storage.