Why nerf Iceheart?

Sandman929

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been reading everyone’s feedback about the recent change to Iceheart (not just on the forums, but other channels and sources as well) and we appreciate you taking the time to let us know your thoughts. We know it’s frustrating to see a strong set get adjusted in this way, but it was a necessary step to bring it a little closer in strength with existing and upcoming sets.

That said, based on some in-game data, testing, and the feedback we’ve been reading, we’re going to make further adjustments to this set in next week’s PTS patch. The plan is to make the baseline function meet the same standards as the Mother Ciannait set, with a 5k shield that lasts up to 6 seconds with a 6 second cooldown. With Iceheart's auxiliary function being focused on preserving the shield to get as much effectiveness out of the damage as possible, and Ciannait around rushing in boldly to break the shield to maximize the Magicka gain, there will be a better parity between the two that helps them both meet our standards as well as feel different from an engagement standpoint.

It's frustrating that ZOS considered it a "strong set" that needed adjusting downward. Confusing too.

BisDasBlutGefriert

..."Hello darkness my old friend"

karthrag_inak

This one cannot wait for fart set (relequen w/winds) to get nerfed to favor new dlc strong armor sets as well. Definitely pending!

Moloch1514

Boooooooo. Response means "Sorry but buy our 2 new group dungeons to continue enjoying solo play".

Djiku

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been reading everyone’s feedback about the recent change to Iceheart (not just on the forums, but other channels and sources as well) and we appreciate you taking the time to let us know your thoughts. We know it’s frustrating to see a strong set get adjusted in this way, but it was a necessary step to bring it a little closer in strength with existing and upcoming sets.

That said, based on some in-game data, testing, and the feedback we’ve been reading, we’re going to make further adjustments to this set in next week’s PTS patch. The plan is to make the baseline function meet the same standards as the Mother Ciannait set, with a 5k shield that lasts up to 6 seconds with a 6 second cooldown. With Iceheart's auxiliary function being focused on preserving the shield to get as much effectiveness out of the damage as possible, and Ciannait around rushing in boldly to break the shield to maximize the Magicka gain, there will be a better parity between the two that helps them both meet our standards as well as feel different from an engagement standpoint.

Will you at least give us time to test the changes properly and give feedback instead of just blindly pushing the patch for release?

Tommy_The_Gun

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The plan is to make the baseline function meet the same standards as the Mother Ciannait set, with a 5k shield that lasts up to 6 seconds with a 6 second cooldown. With Iceheart's auxiliary function being focused on preserving the shield to get as much effectiveness out of the damage as possible, and Ciannait around rushing in boldly to break the shield to maximize the Magicka gain, there will be a better parity between the two that helps them both meet our standards as well as feel different from an engagement standpoint.

Wow....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OFCu2-jxHw

Part of me wishes that we had this much backlash with.. pretty much every over the top heavy handed nerf...

jecks33

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been reading everyone’s feedback about the recent change to Iceheart (not just on the forums, but other channels and sources as well) and we appreciate you taking the time to let us know your thoughts. We know it’s frustrating to see a strong set get adjusted in this way, but it was a necessary step to bring it a little closer in strength with existing and upcoming sets.

That said, based on some in-game data, testing, and the feedback we’ve been reading, we’re going to make further adjustments to this set in next week’s PTS patch. The plan is to make the baseline function meet the same standards as the Mother Ciannait set, with a 5k shield that lasts up to 6 seconds with a 6 second cooldown. With Iceheart's auxiliary function being focused on preserving the shield to get as much effectiveness out of the damage as possible, and Ciannait around rushing in boldly to break the shield to maximize the Magicka gain, there will be a better parity between the two that helps them both meet our standards as well as feel different from an engagement standpoint.

Sorry Gina but this is the wrong way, adjustements (nerfs) are never well acepted. Instead of nerfing everything to "bring it a little closer in strength with existing and upcoming sets", buff older useless sets, make new sets more desirable and not the only possible choice.

Stevie6

Just came up with a novel idea for the DEVS. We, the player base, need more nerfs , decreased damage and shields for everyone, and increased damage output in VMA and TRIALS by 1000% so that NO ONE can play them. Problem solved. This will make the Devs happy

kojou

Lesson Learned:

When a new set is introduced, just praise it and talk about how wonderful it is even if it is a lesser option to something currently in the game. Then once it is live quietly decon it for mats and continue to enjoy the sets that we have and like.

SidraWillowsky

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been reading everyone’s feedback about the recent change to Iceheart (not just on the forums, but other channels and sources as well) and we appreciate you taking the time to let us know your thoughts. We know it’s frustrating to see a strong set get adjusted in this way, but it was a necessary step to bring it a little closer in strength with existing and upcoming sets.

That said, based on some in-game data, testing, and the feedback we’ve been reading, we’re going to make further adjustments to this set in next week’s PTS patch. The plan is to make the baseline function meet the same standards as the Mother Ciannait set, with a 5k shield that lasts up to 6 seconds with a 6 second cooldown. With Iceheart's auxiliary function being focused on preserving the shield to get as much effectiveness out of the damage as possible, and Ciannait around rushing in boldly to break the shield to maximize the Magicka gain, there will be a better parity between the two that helps them both meet our standards as well as feel different from an engagement standpoint.

While I have little faith in the combat team, I appreciate your posting this, Gina, if only to acknowledge that you've heard us.

That said, who's going to wear the new set besides Templars? Why does a niche but universally-helpful set need to be standardized to be brought in-line with a set that's really only going to be beneficial to one class? You can make the Mother set as strong as you want, but I won't be using it on anything but a Templar regardless because the only channeled/cast time ability that I use on other characters iis Channeled Acceleration

And look- I play and love a stamplar and a magplar, but I'll be the first to admit that if there'e one thing that the class DOESN'T need, it's another buff, and this is going to be a huge one. You're essentially removing the risk involved in playing such a strong class- if your burst that's based on channeled abilities gets interrupted, your DPS tanks, along with having to be in melee range to get the most out of your DPS. All classes have drawbacks like this and involve sacrificing one thing to gain another, and that's totally fine and makes things more interesting.

I'm not calling for Templars or this set or whatever to be nerfed, just confused about why you seem to think people are going to flock to Mother Clawhatsitsface now that Iceheart has been smashed. Buff it to hell; I'm still not going to wear it on my wardens, nightblades, etc. because it's going to be useless on classes where I use very little to no channeled/cast abilities. All you're doing is showing us quite clearly that this is all about squeezing money out of people.

Alienoutlaw

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been reading everyone’s feedback about the recent change to Iceheart (not just on the forums, but other channels and sources as well) and we appreciate you taking the time to let us know your thoughts. We know it’s frustrating to see a strong set get adjusted in this way, but it was a necessary step to bring it a little closer in strength with existing and upcoming sets.

That said, based on some in-game data, testing, and the feedback we’ve been reading, we’re going to make further adjustments to this set in next week’s PTS patch. The plan is to make the baseline function meet the same standards as the Mother Ciannait set, with a 5k shield that lasts up to 6 seconds with a 6 second cooldown. With Iceheart's auxiliary function being focused on preserving the shield to get as much effectiveness out of the damage as possible, and Ciannait around rushing in boldly to break the shield to maximize the Magicka gain, there will be a better parity between the two that helps them both meet our standards as well as feel different from an engagement standpoint.

I'll take the revert back to original cool down, but as a defensive set the shield could be around 6500 mark and still make it viable, still at least we have been listened to which i'm sure all of us here appreciate

karekiz

kojou wrote: »

Lesson Learned:

When a new set is introduced, just praise it and talk about how wonderful it is even if it is a lesser option to something currently in the game. Then once it is live quietly decon it for mats and continue to enjoy the sets that we have and like.

^^^ Hes got bois.

Giving feedback is the issue.

Sandman929

I just can't imagine thinking Iceheart was ever too strong as a defensive set compared to...well, probably better not to say since it doesn't seem like they really have any idea

Stevie6

So should the devs remove VMA AND all Trials then? Seems like they are just eye candy for average joe player in any case

daim

Gina's response doesn't anwer the question why would they suddenly nerf a set that is several years old and haven't been overperforming so far.

Don't forget the head piece was on sale at Golden vendor only some weeks ago. I feel I'm getting trolled by the devs.

There's only one reason for this and we all know it and it has been brought up here several times. It's sickening.

BadShogun

Typical ZOS using a sledge hammer when a scalpel is the correct tool.

Alienoutlaw

daim wrote: »

Gina's response doesn't anwer the question why would they suddenly nerf a set that is several years old and haven't been overperforming so far.

Don't forget the head piece was on sale at Golden vendor only some weeks ago. I feel I'm getting trolled by the devs.

There's only one reason for this and we all know it and it has been brought up here several times. It's sickening.

says it all right here

The plan is to make the baseline function meet the same standards as the Mother Ciannait set

Flaminir

@ZOS_GinaBruno does this mean that mother ciannait will be adjusted to meet the iceheart proc condition?

Only proccing from a channelled ability pretty much limits it to Templars...

Kaartinen

Everyone said the new monster set was garbage compared to Iceheart in PTS, so now Iceheart has been trashed to promote DLC's.

rainfeatherpearl

RIP all my solo toons. I love this game. It's why I have spent a crap ton of money dating back from beta to present. We are always touting the fact that this game is for everyone, and should you wish to play on your own, you can bloody well do it. Well, one of the staple monster sets for soloing is Iceheart, and now you're telling us that this set will join its brother the Pirate Skeleton in the garbage? I guess it's time to rethink my expenditures.

Granicus

Just another cash grab. Making customers happy is low/no priority. Watched the Big Announce last month. Was not impressed at all. Just like the tiny ‘long winged’ bat that just showed up. Can barely notice it’s there.

ZoS: If we can’t design things that people really want to buy, let’s make changes to the current environment to drive them to give us more money, money, money ....

Carsinomus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been reading everyone’s feedback about the recent change to Iceheart (not just on the forums, but other channels and sources as well) and we appreciate you taking the time to let us know your thoughts. We know it’s frustrating to see a strong set get adjusted in this way, but it was a necessary step to bring it a little closer in strength with existing and upcoming sets.

That said, based on some in-game data, testing, and the feedback we’ve been reading, we’re going to make further adjustments to this set in next week’s PTS patch. The plan is to make the baseline function meet the same standards as the Mother Ciannait set, with a 5k shield that lasts up to 6 seconds with a 6 second cooldown. With Iceheart's auxiliary function being focused on preserving the shield to get as much effectiveness out of the damage as possible, and Ciannait around rushing in boldly to break the shield to maximize the Magicka gain, there will be a better parity between the two that helps them both meet our standards as well as feel different from an engagement standpoint.

So, what they mean is "We will nerf everything to the ground to force you buy new DLC and farm new set"
So, what that means to me? Cancel subscription is the answer!

daim

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

daim wrote: »

Gina's response doesn't anwer the question why would they suddenly nerf a set that is several years old and haven't been overperforming so far.

Don't forget the head piece was on sale at Golden vendor only some weeks ago. I feel I'm getting trolled by the devs.

There's only one reason for this and we all know it and it has been brought up here several times. It's sickening.

says it all right here

The plan is to make the baseline function meet the same standards as the Mother Ciannait set

You're right! It does! My bad, I was too emotional when I was reading it and missed the key phrase. I guess I wasn't expecting that they would just admit it themselves so blatantly.

And now we will have two crappy sets instead of one. Yay.

LukosCreyden

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been reading everyone’s feedback about the recent change to Iceheart (not just on the forums, but other channels and sources as well) and we appreciate you taking the time to let us know your thoughts. We know it’s frustrating to see a strong set get adjusted in this way, but it was a necessary step to bring it a little closer in strength with existing and upcoming sets.

That said, based on some in-game data, testing, and the feedback we’ve been reading, we’re going to make further adjustments to this set in next week’s PTS patch. The plan is to make the baseline function meet the same standards as the Mother Ciannait set, with a 5k shield that lasts up to 6 seconds with a 6 second cooldown. With Iceheart's auxiliary function being focused on preserving the shield to get as much effectiveness out of the damage as possible, and Ciannait around rushing in boldly to break the shield to maximize the Magicka gain, there will be a better parity between the two that helps them both meet our standards as well as feel different from an engagement standpoint.

A light at the end of the tunnel! Thank you for letting us know that our feedback has been noticed. I hope that whatever changes come next can help keep Icehart in a useable state.

Kemenril

Really bummed about this. Iceheart is the only monster set that grants a shield (until new one comes out), so I think it should have been allowed to be "good". It allowed flexibility of builds -- I saw DPS, Tanks, and Healers all taking it. And it was never OP in the ways that Blood Spawn could be. It was just a solid set that gave utility and survivability -- and not a LOT of survivability, just, you know, SOME.

I main an offensive, crit-focused healer. Iceheart was one of my most fun sets to take. I'm so sad it will fall of my use list.

Nerfing this is a mistake.

Granicus

Even more reason I’m glad I didn’t pre-order the new DLC ‘Dark Cash Grab’. I don’t appreciate attempts to manipulate me. I doubt our “thoughts are appreciated”. Typical spin.

Thanks for another good reason to NOT buy your new, unimpressive DLC. Nerfing a set to try to promote your new DLC is pretty low. And I guess you’re not done. Still some time to nerf other sets into oblivion to continue trying to manipulate people.

haelene

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been reading everyone’s feedback about the recent change to Iceheart (not just on the forums, but other channels and sources as well) and we appreciate you taking the time to let us know your thoughts. We know it’s frustrating to see a strong set get adjusted in this way, but it was a necessary step to bring it a little closer in strength with existing and upcoming sets.

To be frank - I don't buy this at all. In a vacuum, ignoring every decision ZOS has made up to this point, I might be able to give you the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately the history of ZOS's attempts at "balance" tell a different story. There is no "bringing things in line" because the line has been consistently changed and walked back to suit whatever whim the team has decided on that particular patch. On top of that, if it were true, why can't you buff the under performing sets instead? Why is it always about nerfing?

No, I don't think so. I'm done with the vague excuse that "things need to be brought in line". It's pretty clear why this is being done to anyone who has been paying attention.

I had hope that things were changing on the first iteration of this patch. I can see now that that was foolish on my part. ZOS never changes, and if they seem to be, just wait a little while longer.

Altyrann

Not sure I see the necessity of the change. As stated possibly hundreds of times in this thread alone by now, nobody, not PvE players, nor PvP players, nor new players, nor top end veterans wanted or suggested a change. Good to see reconsideration on the cooldown, but still think reverting fully is the right answer, and seem not to be the only one. If you want to see the new set farmed, make the new set interesting (shield plus mag return could be a good combination IF the values and proc conditions are sensible).

Agenericname

Altyrann wrote: »

Not sure I see the necessity of the change. As stated possibly hundreds of times in this thread alone by now, nobody, not PvE players, nor PvP players, nor new players, nor top end veterans wanted or suggested a change. Good to see reconsideration on the cooldown, but still think reverting fully is the right answer, and seem not to be the only one. If you want to see the new set farmed, make the new set interesting (shield plus mag return could be a good combination IF the values and proc conditions are sensible).

That seems like the most reasonable approach to me. Unfortunately not the one ZOS is taking.

Darkstorne

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The plan is to make the baseline function meet the same standards as the Mother Ciannait set, with a 5k shield that lasts up to 6 seconds with a 6 second cooldown. With Iceheart's auxiliary function being focused on preserving the shield to get as much effectiveness out of the damage as possible, and Ciannait around rushing in boldly to break the shield to maximize the Magicka gain, there will be a better parity between the two that helps them both meet our standards as well as feel different from an engagement standpoint.

Okay, but Ciannait can be proc'd at will. Iceheart only has a 20% chance to proc when you crit. Can you at least change the Iceheart proc chance to 100% on crit if you're still insisting on nerfing both the damage and the shield strength? Otherwise this still very much looks like you're deliberately nerfing Iceheart into a weaker position than your new mechanically similar set, just to entice people to grind for the new thing. That's an awful precedent to set, when one of ESO's biggest strengths in the MMO market is not replacing older gear when new content is released unless you want to.