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Why nerf Iceheart?
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Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am surprised that so little people know about the fact that Iceheart is used to get Achievements such as like Godslayer, Ticktock, Gryphon Heart etc.
Just shows that the amount of players that actually play endgame is non existant.
Did it deserve a nerf? Maybe? However, it will hurt the midtier playerbase way more than the endgame players (like always with changes like that).
Did it deserver a nerf so much that the set is completely useless? OF COURSE NOT. I hate these sledgehammer adjustments.
After much uproar, the set got changed again. The shield size went from around 8400 > 6050 > 5000. More important, they reduced the cooldown to 6 seconds again. It is beyond me how they thought 12s would be "fine".
What worries me the most is, that everything they touch these days be it skills or sets, they try to slap on long cooldowns or cast times.
Devs: "People are only wiping 1000 times progessing this, we need to make sure they wipe 2000 times at least"Beta tester November 20134 -
Odovacar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am surprised that so little people know about the fact that Iceheart is used to get Achievements such as like Godslayer, Ticktock, Gryphon Heart etc.
Just shows that the amount of players that actually play endgame is non existant.
Did it deserve a nerf? Maybe? However, it will hurt the midtier playerbase way more than the endgame players (like always with changes like that).
Did it deserver a nerf so much that the set is completely useless? OF COURSE NOT. I hate these sledgehammer adjustments.
After much uproar, the set got changed again. The shield size went from around 8400 > 6050 > 5000. More important, they reduced the cooldown to 6 seconds again. It is beyond me how they thought 12s would be "fine".
What worries me the most is, that everything they touch these days be it skills or sets, they try to slap on long cooldowns or cast times.
@Alcast speaks truth once again...Iceheart + Barrier = large shield. Really helps on no deaths runsEdited by Odovacar on February 11, 2020 3:23PM1 -
Odovacar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »
Agreed...Yeah...using sets and skills to achieve some of the hardest earned achievements is frowned upon by ZOS
3 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »I am surprised that so little people know about the fact that Iceheart is used to get Achievements such as like Godslayer, Ticktock, Gryphon Heart etc.
I fail to see why this set being used to get those achievements is an actual issue in the first place. people will always use the most effective thing for a situation. I think it's fine that people adapt their gear to said different situations.
Seems like according to ZOS unless you get an achievement in white no-set gear you are not doing it legit and abusing powerful set bonuses! I'll have to reach out and confirm if the same applies to using weapons which drastically inflate you offensive stats. True Godslayers do their runs with just bare fists.
Also according to Brian Wheeler white no-set gear fits so much nicer in his favorite balancing spreadsheet than all those annoying sets with their varied bonuses...
14 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »
Agreed...Yeah...using sets and skills to achieve some of the hardest earned achievements is frowned upon by ZOS
Exactly, people should be rewarded for using their skill and brain to make such drastic changes to their build like swapping monster set to progress thru content that was too difficult otherwise. Its like when they nerfed phonix/eternal yokeda, again attacking people with skill and brain adapting to situations like dying by swapping gear to set that makes them not to so they can succeed in content they couldn't3 -
Sennecca✭✭✭A 5k damage shield every 6 seconds is laughable for a "monster set". Might as well slot igneous shield or a bone shield morph and make your monster helm an offensive one. The other monster sets are laughing at iceheart who is hiding in embarrassment
11 -
Golden_Cat✭✭✭Guess I'm the only idiot that use Iceheart as DPS set in my magden solo build because it's the only ice theme monster set and the in-game data they mentioned is me whenever I jump into a horde of mobs just because it's fun.
I proved that Iceheart can deal some damage and save me from overland trash mobs.
sorry y'all
6 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It is because shields got changed to take into account your resistances (seems many people forget this), this set was buffed pretty hard but flew under the radar for awhile until it became a common thing to easily pass through difficult situations. Thus received the nerf for making encounters much easier than intended.Dusk_Coven wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »I am surprised that so little people know about the fact that Iceheart is used to get Achievements such as like Godslayer, Ticktock, Gryphon Heart etc.
I fail to see why this set being used to get those achievements is an actual issue in the first place. people will always use the most effective thing for a situation. I think it's fine that people adapt their gear to said different situations.
If set A is the supposed reason for achievement X, Y, Z and so it gets nerfed... when will that end? People will choose other sets and combinations, they will be best-in-class for trying to get the achievements, and then? Nerf again? When the challenge increases, naturally the number of useful sets will shrink.
No, being even very useful in getting an achievement is not necessarily a valid criteria for nerfing. That's just another way of shifting the goalpost for the achievements at the expense of changing something that overall is fine. It starts to look like ZOS makes a challenge and is upset that too many players found a way to beat it. That'd be just sour grapes.
ZOS doing their usual thing of buffing something and forgetting about other things that may be affected and then nerfing them because of the changes they made. After many years this is still a reoccurring theme with this game
Edited by Nifty2g on February 11, 2020 3:55PM#MOREORBS3 -
Inklings✭✭✭✭✭The large majority of us using this set to get through harder content werent actually using it as a crutch to circumvent the difficulty of the content as much as the poor performance and endless bugs that sit in the game for 100+ days at a time.
The continuation of balancing this game in a vacuum were the game runs perfect with spread sheets and numbers alone while ignoring real time issue that cant be quantified by a power spreadsheet is gonna be the death of this game. If this is going to continue to be the standard for all future content im scared to see what the future holds for this game.16 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
@Inklings Curious, what bugs in particular caused the groups to use this set?The large majority of us using this set to get through harder content werent actually using it as a crutch to circumvent the difficulty of the content as much as the poor performance and endless bugs that sit in the game for 100+ days at a time.
Edited by Nifty2g on February 11, 2020 4:01PM#MOREORBS0 -
Inklings✭✭✭✭✭
@Inklings Curious, what bugs in particular caused the groups to use this set?The large majority of us using this set to get through harder content werent actually using it as a crutch to circumvent the difficulty of the content as much as the poor performance and endless bugs that sit in the game for 100+ days at a time.
The best example i can give is the moving cone bug we had from Elsweyr to Scalebreaker.0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
But that was fixed in August last year, so how is that relevant now. Not to mention majority of the cones hitting you in trials would kill you, ice heart would not save you.
@Inklings Curious, what bugs in particular caused the groups to use this set?The large majority of us using this set to get through harder content werent actually using it as a crutch to circumvent the difficulty of the content as much as the poor performance and endless bugs that sit in the game for 100+ days at a time.
The best example i can give is the moving cone bug we had from Elsweyr to Scalebreaker.
If there is no up to date bugs where this set truly saves you, then why would a group currently be using it. You can't ignore the fact that when shields got buffed this set became very strong. If I remember correctly most shield sources were halved but in turn you got resistances on your shield, and this set was ignored and left as it was. It should have been adjusted during that patch but ZOS is so disconnected from their end game community that it takes this amount of time for them to actually do something about it so it comes off as a truly random nerf, and not only that but quite late#MOREORBS0 -
Sennecca✭✭✭Off to level up spiked bone shield I will give me a 1k bigger shield than iceheart and deal more damage. Another monster helm to sit in the storage bins. #Nerf until it's useless.4
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Ezhh✭✭✭✭✭I am surprised that so little people know about the fact that Iceheart is used to get Achievements such as like Godslayer, Ticktock, Gryphon Heart etc.
Just shows that the amount of players that actually play endgame is non existant.
That so few people can do these achievements regardless of set used says plenty in itself. I'm not surprised Iceheart would be used for such things, but can't that be because of a lack of alternatives that are worth using, rather than it being overpowered? The new set could have been a chance at a nice alternative option if it had been better designed, but instead we'll end up with two disappointing sets.
Either way, if those achievements are being used to justify this change it doesn't seem like a good one. What is or is not balanced shouldn't be determined by a tiny minority of players.Edited by Ezhh on February 11, 2020 4:42PM12 -
snoozy✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am surprised that so little people know about the fact that Iceheart is used to get Achievements such as like Godslayer, Ticktock, Gryphon Heart etc.
Just shows that the amount of players that actually play endgame is non existant.
Did it deserve a nerf? Maybe? However, it will hurt the midtier playerbase way more than the endgame players (like always with changes like that).
Did it deserver a nerf so much that the set is completely useless? OF COURSE NOT. I hate these sledgehammer adjustments.
After much uproar, the set got changed again. The shield size went from around 8400 > 6050 > 5000. More important, they reduced the cooldown to 6 seconds again. It is beyond me how they thought 12s would be "fine".
What worries me the most is, that everything they touch these days be it skills or sets, they try to slap on long cooldowns or cast times.
Alcast EHRENMANN
how does zos justify keeping this change?? nobody supports this, vet players, class reps, the whole community is mad!
and they just keep ignoring the outcry?
this level of disregard towards their community is honestly so disappointing
PC EU7 -
snoozy✭✭✭✭✭
✭everyone, let's temporarily change our avatars to iceheart for more visibility!
#SaveIceheartPC EU7 -
Moloch1514✭✭✭✭✭
✭
But that was fixed in August last year, so how is that relevant now. Not to mention majority of the cones hitting you in trials would kill you, ice heart would not save you.
@Inklings Curious, what bugs in particular caused the groups to use this set?The large majority of us using this set to get through harder content werent actually using it as a crutch to circumvent the difficulty of the content as much as the poor performance and endless bugs that sit in the game for 100+ days at a time.
The best example i can give is the moving cone bug we had from Elsweyr to Scalebreaker.
If there is no up to date bugs where this set truly saves you, then why would a group currently be using it. You can't ignore the fact that when shields got buffed this set became very strong. If I remember correctly most shield sources were halved but in turn you got resistances on your shield, and this set was ignored and left as it was. It should have been adjusted during that patch but ZOS is so disconnected from their end game community that it takes this amount of time for them to actually do something about it so it comes off as a truly random nerf, and not only that but quite late
That may be true if ZOS nerfed Iceheart in the original iteration of this PTS cycle, yet the Nerf only came after we reacted strongly to how bad Mothers Ciannitfjcjdj set was compared to Iceheart. So their intention was never to adjust Iceheart because shields were stronger a few patches ago, it was simply a reaction to @Alcast making fun of their horrible new set.PC-NA12 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How about keep the shield strength at around 6000 for Iceheart and increase the shield strength on Mother Ciannait to match. The primary purpose of either of those sets is the shield; it's not like players are really going to be trying to get the shield from Mother Ciannait burst through completely just for the resource gain (and similarly for Iceheart, the reason to keep the shield up is to keep the shield up so you don't take actual damage to your health). If they don't confer enough of a survival benefit then players are just going to use something like Zaan instead. (or run Infernal Guardian and instead of having a shield proc on doing damage in some form, cast the shield and have damage proc from it).
Careful with that Axe, EugeneSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am surprised that so little people know about the fact that Iceheart is used to get Achievements such as like Godslayer, Ticktock, Gryphon Heart etc.
Just shows that the amount of players that actually play endgame is non existant.
Did it deserve a nerf? Maybe? However, it will hurt the midtier playerbase way more than the endgame players (like always with changes like that).
Did it deserver a nerf so much that the set is completely useless? OF COURSE NOT. I hate these sledgehammer adjustments.
After much uproar, the set got changed again. The shield size went from around 8400 > 6050 > 5000. More important, they reduced the cooldown to 6 seconds again. It is beyond me how they thought 12s would be "fine".
What worries me the most is, that everything they touch these days be it skills or sets, they try to slap on long cooldowns or cast times.
@Alcast speaks truth once again...Iceheart + Barrier = large shield. Really helps on no deaths runs
Is that wrong?Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Inklings✭✭✭✭✭
But that was fixed in August last year, so how is that relevant now. Not to mention majority of the cones hitting you in trials would kill you, ice heart would not save you.
@Inklings Curious, what bugs in particular caused the groups to use this set?The large majority of us using this set to get through harder content werent actually using it as a crutch to circumvent the difficulty of the content as much as the poor performance and endless bugs that sit in the game for 100+ days at a time.
The best example i can give is the moving cone bug we had from Elsweyr to Scalebreaker.
If there is no up to date bugs where this set truly saves you, then why would a group currently be using it. You can't ignore the fact that when shields got buffed this set became very strong. If I remember correctly most shield sources were halved but in turn you got resistances on your shield, and this set was ignored and left as it was. It should have been adjusted during that patch but ZOS is so disconnected from their end game community that it takes this amount of time for them to actually do something about it so it comes off as a truly random nerf, and not only that but quite late
Iceheart along with normal means of healing/shields gave us enough buffer space during that time to not die to most cones. Fixed or not, doesn't negate the fact this set helped us through 4 months of a game breaking bug.
Lets look at out of group content and look at how many bugs it saves you from in vMA. Again now no longer an issue but we had round 5 giant ground sweep cone and round 7 archer spray cone from pre dragonhold. Still current bugs that i use the set on new characters to get their flawless titles. Round 3 taking lighting damage after final boss is dead. Round 8 last mini boss chain pull in bug. Displaced mobs that you cant interrupt. Over all performance tanking once youre in there for more then 40 minutes that leaves especially first time flawless chasers dealing with unresponsive heals and shields.
I have never use iceheart as a means to cheese any content. I have always used it as either a buffer when learning content or as a means to help get through bugged content.
Outside of those facts the set was a really fun one to use for players who liked to play stand your ground, heavy attack, ground dot builds. After the nerf to that play style this set was one of the last shining factors left to it. Its current changes really doenst give the set any viable use as the damage is so low and the chance of even getting the full damage output from it is slim to non thanks to the conditions required to do so. The sets conditions need an overhaul badly if they want to keep the numbers for both the shield and damage it does.
Its funny that you should say "ZOS is so disconnected from their end game community" when we are talking about iceheart as the players most effected by this change are those outside of the 1%. The disconnect isnt just end game players. Its a disconnect from seeing the game from outside the numbers as a whole.9 -
Odovacar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am surprised that so little people know about the fact that Iceheart is used to get Achievements such as like Godslayer, Ticktock, Gryphon Heart etc.
Just shows that the amount of players that actually play endgame is non existant.
Did it deserve a nerf? Maybe? However, it will hurt the midtier playerbase way more than the endgame players (like always with changes like that).
Did it deserver a nerf so much that the set is completely useless? OF COURSE NOT. I hate these sledgehammer adjustments.
After much uproar, the set got changed again. The shield size went from around 8400 > 6050 > 5000. More important, they reduced the cooldown to 6 seconds again. It is beyond me how they thought 12s would be "fine".
What worries me the most is, that everything they touch these days be it skills or sets, they try to slap on long cooldowns or cast times.
@Alcast speaks truth once again...Iceheart + Barrier = large shield. Really helps on no deaths runs
Is that wrong?
absolutely not. I agree with him...endgame community is small and many don't really get what this set was used for outside of solo content. Some call it cheesing others like myself call it using what we have to achieve such titles like IR. Consoles needs all the help we can get, lol.5 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am surprised that so little people know about the fact that Iceheart is used to get Achievements such as like Godslayer, Ticktock, Gryphon Heart etc.
Just shows that the amount of players that actually play endgame is non existant.
Did it deserve a nerf? Maybe? However, it will hurt the midtier playerbase way more than the endgame players (like always with changes like that).
Did it deserver a nerf so much that the set is completely useless? OF COURSE NOT. I hate these sledgehammer adjustments.
After much uproar, the set got changed again. The shield size went from around 8400 > 6050 > 5000. More important, they reduced the cooldown to 6 seconds again. It is beyond me how they thought 12s would be "fine".
What worries me the most is, that everything they touch these days be it skills or sets, they try to slap on long cooldowns or cast times.
@Alcast speaks truth once again...Iceheart + Barrier = large shield. Really helps on no deaths runs
Is that wrong?
absolutely not. I agree with him...endgame community is small and many don't really get what this set was used for outside of solo content. Some call it cheesing others like myself call it using what we have to achieve such titles like IR. Consoles needs all the help we can get, lol.
Well, in the end what bothers me, besides the nerf to this set to sell MC, is the fact that ZoS want us to use just the sets they want to complete the content. That's a very wrong signal.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique2 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am surprised that so little people know about the fact that Iceheart is used to get Achievements such as like Godslayer, Ticktock, Gryphon Heart etc.
Just shows that the amount of players that actually play endgame is non existant.
Did it deserve a nerf? Maybe? However, it will hurt the midtier playerbase way more than the endgame players (like always with changes like that).
Did it deserver a nerf so much that the set is completely useless? OF COURSE NOT. I hate these sledgehammer adjustments.
After much uproar, the set got changed again. The shield size went from around 8400 > 6050 > 5000. More important, they reduced the cooldown to 6 seconds again. It is beyond me how they thought 12s would be "fine".
What worries me the most is, that everything they touch these days be it skills or sets, they try to slap on long cooldowns or cast times.
@Alcast speaks truth once again...Iceheart + Barrier = large shield. Really helps on no deaths runs
Is that wrong?
absolutely not. I agree with him...endgame community is small and many don't really get what this set was used for outside of solo content. Some call it cheesing others like myself call it using what we have to achieve such titles like IR. Consoles needs all the help we can get, lol.
Well, in the end what bothers me, besides the nerf to this set to sell MC, is the fact that ZoS want us to use just the sets they want to complete the content. That's a very wrong signal.
You are a lost cause if you truly believe ice heart was nerfed to sell a quarterly DLC package. What margins are you concocting in your brain that equates to such a frequent scenario where enough players are saying "gee, my ice hearts set it nerfed, but if I buy that new dlc I can still play my build for slaying the various delve beasts throughout tamriel!" When the only groups that were using ice heart in a manner that was even relevant were dedicated core players whom most likely subscribe to eso plus anyways since they are generally end game players. And for the most casual players that liked ice heart for flavor reasons, the nerf to the set is entirely superfluous and inconsequential to the activities they are logging on every day to do.
This tin foil hat *** is ridiculous.1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
But how is that even relevant if it was 6 months ago and is currently fixed, this nerf is happening now not 6 months ago, I fail to see what a bug that long ago has to do with the present nerf lolIceheart along with normal means of healing/shields gave us enough buffer space during that time to not die to most cones. Fixed or not, doesn't negate the fact this set helped us through 4 months of a game breaking bug.
All of these issues can still be negated with the current version of Ice Heart, there are other means to survive these issues as well such as timing of them and knowing when they will happen (you seem to have a good idea of when they will happen)Lets look at out of group content and look at how many bugs it saves you from in vMA. Again now no longer an issue but we had round 5 giant ground sweep cone and round 7 archer spray cone from pre dragonhold. Still current bugs that i use the set on new characters to get their flawless titles. Round 3 taking lighting damage after final boss is dead. Round 8 last mini boss chain pull in bug. Displaced mobs that you cant interrupt. Over all performance tanking once youre in there for more then 40 minutes that leaves especially first time flawless chasers dealing with unresponsive heals and shields.
You sort of prove the whole point -- the set was viable for survivability AND damage, shouldn't it be 1 or the other?Outside of those facts the set was a really fun one to use for players who liked to play stand your ground, heavy attack, ground dot builds. After the nerf to that play style this set was one of the last shining factors left to it. Its current changes really doenst give the set any viable use as the damage is so low and the chance of even getting the full damage output from it is slim to non thanks to the conditions required to do so. The sets conditions need an overhaul badly if they want to keep the numbers for both the shield and damage it does.
Everyone will always run to this excuse, that it hurts the people outside of top groups, this set has been around for a very long time and not many people used it because it was actually not that viable pre shield adjustments, it was only afterwards it became a widespread use. People have survived without it and they will continue to survive without it. Survival is FAR easier compared to what it used to be, you have far more options and if you are using this from a pure survival point of view, you still can you know and you will see similar resultsIts funny that you should say "ZOS is so disconnected from their end game community" when we are talking about iceheart as the players most effected by this change are those outside of the 1%. The disconnect isnt just end game players. Its a disconnect from seeing the game from outside the numbers as a whole.
Edited by Nifty2g on February 11, 2020 6:08PM#MOREORBS0 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I am surprised that so little people know about the fact that Iceheart is used to get Achievements such as like Godslayer, Ticktock, Gryphon Heart etc.
Just shows that the amount of players that actually play endgame is non existant.
That so few people can do these achievements regardless of set used says plenty in itself. I'm not surprised Iceheart would be used for such things, but can't that because of a lack of alternatives that are worth using, rather than it being overpowered? The new set could have been a chance at a nice alternative option if it had been better designed, but instead we'll end up with two disappointing sets.
Either way, if those achievements are being used to justify this change it doesn't seem like a good one. What is or is not balanced shouldn't be determined by a tiny minority of players.
That’s a big part of the problem — they have said that they “balance” to elite top tier players, who comprise a small fraction of a percent of their base. They often don’t seem to take into consideration how these changes realistically impact the in-game experience of the vast majority of players, especially those looking to improve combat-wise. (Whether they understand the realistic in-game combat experience is another question too.) If they do take them into consideration, it’s only to dismiss them, e.g.: we love the idea of Iceheart helping you to survive as you try harder content...but not so much that we won’t reduce its survival power by nearly 40%. They know they’re hurting a lot of people’s chances at stepping into vMA (that is not to say scaling the leaderboards, but learning it in the first place), as well as other solo content, and they do it anyhow in the name of new standards.
Those new standards are only going to discourage people from doing content. Not all people and not all content, to be sure, but this approach will continue to impact players negatively not only mechanically but even more importantly morale-wise. The last year in particular has been highly discouraging (speaking for myself) after so many huge mechanical changes (many of which have not been readjusted) and increasingly problematic performance — for which some improvements have been made and others are still slated, yes, but that won’t solve the horrendous concurrency issues (over 100 boots to login this past event on NA!), and has any dev actually laid eyes on Kaal in any way, shape, or form since MYM? (I won’t even ask about EU, whose hamster seems to catch fire at the slightest provocation — and sometimes just for fun.)
All this places even greater emphasis on the combat team’s need to create a fun, balanced environment that leads people to want to play the game regardless. This approach doesn’t seem to be very effective in that regard. Not too long ago they literally categorized players live on stream as either elite top tier or Dragon-chasing casuals and made no bones about the fact that they care only about the former when it comes to balance. There are millions of players who aren’t one or the other, and they’re the majority of those who get the raw end of the deal when they fall through that massive crack in the space between extremes.
(Just my $1 — I never learned to stop at 2 cents.)13 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I fail to understand how this will dramatically change the experience when you can just put a shield on your bar.I am surprised that so little people know about the fact that Iceheart is used to get Achievements such as like Godslayer, Ticktock, Gryphon Heart etc.
Just shows that the amount of players that actually play endgame is non existant.
That so few people can do these achievements regardless of set used says plenty in itself. I'm not surprised Iceheart would be used for such things, but can't that because of a lack of alternatives that are worth using, rather than it being overpowered? The new set could have been a chance at a nice alternative option if it had been better designed, but instead we'll end up with two disappointing sets.
Either way, if those achievements are being used to justify this change it doesn't seem like a good one. What is or is not balanced shouldn't be determined by a tiny minority of players.
That’s a big part of the problem — they have said that they “balance” to elite top tier players, who comprise a small fraction of a percent of their base. They often don’t seem to take into consideration how these changes realistically impact the in-game experience of the vast majority of players, especially those looking to improve combat-wise. (Whether they understand the realistic in-game combat experience is another question too.) If they do take them into consideration, it’s only to dismiss them, e.g.: we love the idea of Iceheart helping you to survive as you try harder content...but not so much that we won’t reduce its survival power by nearly 40%. They know they’re hurting a lot of people’s chances at stepping into vMA (that is not to say scaling the leaderboards, but learning it in the first place), as well as other solo content, and they do it anyhow in the name of new standards.
Those new standards are only going to discourage people from doing content. Not all people and not all content, to be sure, but this approach will continue to impact players negatively not only mechanically but even more importantly morale-wise. The last year in particular has been highly discouraging (speaking for myself) after so many huge mechanical changes (many of which have not been readjusted) and increasingly problematic performance — for which some improvements have been made and others are still slated, yes, but that won’t solve the horrendous concurrency issues (over 100 boots to login this past event on NA!), and has any dev actually laid eyes on Kaal in any way, shape, or form since MYM? (I won’t even ask about EU, whose hamster seems to catch fire at the slightest provocation — and sometimes just for fun.)
All this places even greater emphasis on the combat team’s need to create a fun, balanced environment that leads people to want to play the game regardless. This approach doesn’t seem to be very effective in that regard. Not too long ago they literally categorized players live on stream as either elite top tier or Dragon-chasing casuals and made no bones about the fact that they care only about the former when it comes to balance. There are millions of players who aren’t one or the other, and they’re the majority of those who get the raw end of the deal when they fall through that massive crack in the space between extremes.
(Just my $1 — I never learned to stop at 2 cents.)
#MOREORBS0 -
Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭So the developer notes basically state that we cried too much about Iceheart and therefore the was the justification for reducing the nerfs?
Love it.1 -
Inklings✭✭✭✭✭
But how is that even relevant if it was 6 months ago and is currently fixed, this nerf is happening now not 6 months ago, I fail to see what a bug that long ago has to do with the present nerf lolIceheart along with normal means of healing/shields gave us enough buffer space during that time to not die to most cones. Fixed or not, doesn't negate the fact this set helped us through 4 months of a game breaking bug.
All of these issues can still be negated with the current version of Ice Heart, there are other means to survive these issues as well such as timing of them and knowing when they will happen (you seem to have a good idea of when they will happen)Lets look at out of group content and look at how many bugs it saves you from in vMA. Again now no longer an issue but we had round 5 giant ground sweep cone and round 7 archer spray cone from pre dragonhold. Still current bugs that i use the set on new characters to get their flawless titles. Round 3 taking lighting damage after final boss is dead. Round 8 last mini boss chain pull in bug. Displaced mobs that you cant interrupt. Over all performance tanking once youre in there for more then 40 minutes that leaves especially first time flawless chasers dealing with unresponsive heals and shields.
You sort of prove the whole point -- the set was viable for survivability AND damage, shouldn't it be 1 or the other?Outside of those facts the set was a really fun one to use for players who liked to play stand your ground, heavy attack, ground dot builds. After the nerf to that play style this set was one of the last shining factors left to it. Its current changes really doenst give the set any viable use as the damage is so low and the chance of even getting the full damage output from it is slim to non thanks to the conditions required to do so. The sets conditions need an overhaul badly if they want to keep the numbers for both the shield and damage it does.
Everyone will always run to this excuse, that it hurts the people outside of top groups, this set has been around for a very long time and not many people used it because it was actually not that viable pre shield adjustments, it was only afterwards it became a widespread use. People have survived without it and they will continue to survive without it. Survival is FAR easier compared to what it used to be, you have far more options and if you are using this from a pure survival point of view, you still can you know and you will see similar resultsIts funny that you should say "ZOS is so disconnected from their end game community" when we are talking about iceheart as the players most effected by this change are those outside of the 1%. The disconnect isnt just end game players. Its a disconnect from seeing the game from outside the numbers as a whole.
But how is that even relevant if it was 6 months ago and is currently fixed, this nerf is happening now not 6 months ago, I fail to see what a bug that long ago has to do with the present nerf lolIceheart along with normal means of healing/shields gave us enough buffer space during that time to not die to most cones. Fixed or not, doesn't negate the fact this set helped us through 4 months of a game breaking bug.
All of these issues can still be negated with the current version of Ice Heart, there are other means to survive these issues as well such as timing of them and knowing when they will happen (you seem to have a good idea of when they will happen)Lets look at out of group content and look at how many bugs it saves you from in vMA. Again now no longer an issue but we had round 5 giant ground sweep cone and round 7 archer spray cone from pre dragonhold. Still current bugs that i use the set on new characters to get their flawless titles. Round 3 taking lighting damage after final boss is dead. Round 8 last mini boss chain pull in bug. Displaced mobs that you cant interrupt. Over all performance tanking once youre in there for more then 40 minutes that leaves especially first time flawless chasers dealing with unresponsive heals and shields.
You sort of prove the whole point -- the set was viable for survivability AND damage, shouldn't it be 1 or the other?Outside of those facts the set was a really fun one to use for players who liked to play stand your ground, heavy attack, ground dot builds. After the nerf to that play style this set was one of the last shining factors left to it. Its current changes really doenst give the set any viable use as the damage is so low and the chance of even getting the full damage output from it is slim to non thanks to the conditions required to do so. The sets conditions need an overhaul badly if they want to keep the numbers for both the shield and damage it does.
Everyone will always run to this excuse, that it hurts the people outside of top groups, this set has been around for a very long time and not many people used it because it was actually not that viable pre shield adjustments, it was only afterwards it became a widespread use. People have survived without it and they will continue to survive without it. Survival is FAR easier compared to what it used to be, you have far more options and if you are using this from a pure survival point of view, you still can you know and you will see similar resultsIts funny that you should say "ZOS is so disconnected from their end game community" when we are talking about iceheart as the players most effected by this change are those outside of the 1%. The disconnect isnt just end game players. Its a disconnect from seeing the game from outside the numbers as a whole.
You as well as everyone else who has played this game knows we will get more bugs in the future were iceheart would be useful to fight through them. The need for iceheart didnt die after the cone bug was fixed. I feel like youre just arguing to argue. I know youre smart enough to realize the point i was making.
Why should a set only do one thing? Thats a horrible approach to making and balancing sets. That thought idea leads to very boring game choices. Iceheart suffers from a such bad dps in the meta of score pushing that its never been viable to that aspect of the game. The position you need to be in to utilize the damage from iceheart leaves you extremely vulnerable. There has to be a shield tied to it as well or the aoe range of the set needs to be a lot larger. Again ill restate that the conditions for this set need reworked if they want to keep the shield and damage numbers were they have them.
This idea that the shield changes are the only reason it was used it also false. Players have been using the set on certain builds for years. In fact many of us ended up using the set more for the 1 piece crit then we did the shield and damage. You seem to have a really hard time looking out from your own game experience and acknowledge how others have played the game.
And the point for me and a lot of others isnt that survival is easier or that there are other sets we can use. Its that options are being taking away or limited. This whole issue isnt squarely based around iceheart either. Its a BIG over all issue that has been a damaging aspect to the fun and an enjoyment of the game since they started doing this combat audit. We are being squeezed more and more into running certain play-styles, gear set ups, and skill layouts to be able to complete content. A game that is going into its 6th year should be expanding on all that, not limiting it in the fashion they are.
Edited by Inklings on February 11, 2020 7:27PM9
This discussion has been closed.