Do you consider the new pet p2w

Kahnak

No, and I have ESO+

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Franckystationb16_ESO wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

The boar is giftable that means that 360k gold is the regular price of the new pet. Don't tell me you are not capable of making 360k gold. Just by doing daily writts on all characters every day will grant you that in a week.

At the end of the day someone had to put money real life money into the store in order to sell those crowns or the pet as a gift for in-game gold

when a game offers you in store the most powerful weapon of a game or an armor or an instant exp we talk about P2W, there is the inventory, moreover in most MMO online slots inventory can be bought in store, there is no question of "P2W" review your definitions and the meaning of the sentences

Pay to win means paying for an advantage, not paying for a single player style weapon that one shots all enemies.

Emm not exactly. P2W has meant that you could by something in the cash shop that would make your character stronger in combat than it could be with what is obtained in game. It would include a weapon that one shot enemies if nothing better was available in game.

In other words, this pet is not even close to P2W. If Zos sold a new tier of upgrade material past legendary (gold) that would be P2W. vMA weapons could be considered P2W if Zos did not grant total access to all DLCs during the free trials.

No pay to win is an advantage.

Kahnak wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Hippie4927 wrote: »

Please explain how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W.

Few months down the line - "Please explain how 20 extra inventory slots is P2W"
One year later and 50+ pets x 5 slots - ???!!!

A string of hypothetical situations is not an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W and is not particularly compelling.

You've sorely misunderstood my point. It wasn't an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W but how it could lead to a "hypothetical situation" where it could be considered p2w and neither was it* my aim to impress you or anyone.

I can already see it in the crown store:
20 extra inventory slots + 4 reskinned pets bundle - 2500 crowns.
50 extra inventory slots + 10 reskinned pets bundle - 5000 crowns
100 extra inventory slots + 20 reskinned pets bundle - 9000 crowns

Here's another hypothetical situation, maybe they won't even reskin pets but instead reuse the existing pets and stick a 5 extra inventory slots to each of them and sell them in the above mentioned hypothetical crown store bundles too.

But ofc this is all just hypothetical!

You've sorely misunderstood what the word 'compelling' means and putting quotes around the word hypothetical doesn't make it less hypothetical. Conjecture is not helpful to the discussion.

Even if what you've suggested is the case, it's not Pay to Win - it's still Pay to Convenience. Even if it were 1000 additional inventory slots, inventory provides no advantage over other players aside from convenience. That would imply that a banker or merchant is an unfair advantage. If that is what you believe, you may want to consider playing a game without a cash shop. You can call it greedy - I do. You may have a negative opinion of the crown store - a lot of people do. Neither of these opinions are relevant to the P2W discussion. It seems to me that this P2W accusation comes from people who have never played a game that is actually P2W and have no frame of reference. You can hypothesize all you want, but not one person has been able to provide anything demonstrable that would suggest that an additional Ballista or stack of trash potions in your inventory is going to provide the crux for victory in Cyrodil.

it's not Pay to Win - it's still Pay to Convenience.

Have you ever actually played a pay to win game? That is the whole point of pay to win.

Even if it were 1000 additional inventory slots, inventory provides no advantage over other players aside from convenience.

Except for the additional 1000 inventory slots which are pay to win as you are PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE NON PAYING PLAYERS ARE ABLE TO GET. This is an advantage over other players, if you can keep going through dungeons without ever having to sell/decon compared to a player with 200 inventory slots. 5x your inventory space is a giant advantage because it means more time spent playing vs managing inventory.

You can hypothesize all you want, but not one person has been able to provide anything demonstrable that would suggest that an additional Ballista or stack of trash potions in your inventory is going to provide the crux for victory in Cyrodil.

So if we take your hypothetical situation and say we have a pug of 20 players that have paid to have 1000 inventory slots vs 20 pug players with 200 inventory slots. Now PVP siege generally doesn't stack so who do you think is going to have a greater advantage in Cyrodiil. The players with enough slots to hold unlimited pvp plus additional resources and armor sets so they never have to access a merchant or the other group with the standard inventory space? Hmmm seems like something like that could be the crux for victory in Cyrodiil.

If you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the words 'advantage' or 'demonstrable' mean this makes sense. It's pretty impressive how many amazing players come out of the woodwork whose PvP losses are so marginal that they could be attributed to the other teams acquisition of 5 additional inventory slots. It's almost as if buying a non-combat pet has turned the average player into a living god.

"Except for the additional 1000 inventory slots which are pay to win as you are PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE NON PAYING PLAYERS ARE ABLE TO GET. This is an advantage over other players, if you can keep going through dungeons without ever having to sell/decon compared to a player with 200 inventory slots. 5x your inventory space is a giant advantage because it means more time spent playing vs managing inventory."

Except 1000 inventory slots is obvious hyperbole and you just spent however long attempting to refute a blatant exaggeration. As previously stated in the post that you copied but failed to actually read, *that would imply that a banker or merchant is an unfair advantage. If that is what you believe, you may want to consider playing a game without a cash shop.*

5 additional inventory slots that you pay to get and have no way of earning in game is pay to win, it is a paid advantage over other players. An advantage doesn't mean one player is a god and the other player isn't, if we ran a race and I paid for running shoes and you went barefoot then that is a paid advantage.

"Except 1000 inventory slots is obvious hyperbole and you just spent however long attempting to refute a blatant exaggeration. "

Obviously it's hyperbole, I don't think you get that your own argument is a case against your point. What's the difference between 5 inventory slots extra or 500 extra or 5000 extra? It's still a paid advantage no matter how you spin it.

"As previously stated in the post that you copied but failed to actually read, *that would imply that a banker or merchant is an unfair advantage. If that is what you believe, you may want to consider playing a game without a cash shop.*"

Obviously it's pay to win XD, why do you think it's disabled in PVP? That's a competitive environment and if you were in a situation where you run out of siege how is it a fair advantage to just pull up the banker and take out some siege vs a player that can't buy the banker that has to go out of the way to find an available siege merchant. Also the banker has 480 slots with ESO+ if you include that with a characters max inventory of 205 now that is 685 slots total.

I'm not opposed to the cash shop, I've said it before, spend your money how you want if you can but be willing to call it what it is.

[Edit to remove bait]

"5 additional inventory slots that you pay to get and have no way of earning in game is pay to win, it is a paid advantage over other players. An advantage doesn't mean one player is a god and the other player isn't, if we ran a race and I paid for running shoes and you went barefoot then that is a paid advantage."

It's evident that you're going to continue to double down on whatever wacky definition of advantage that you've imagined. If every luxury or convenience service that you can buy off of the Crown Store is Pay to Win then, as I previously stated, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the word 'advantage' means. If you come to a race barefoot you are a moron - not a victim of the Crown Store. What an embarrassing allegory.

"Obviously it's pay to win XD, why do you think it's disabled in PVP? That's a competitive environment and if you were in a situation where you run out of siege how is it a fair advantage to just pull up the banker and take out some siege vs a player that can't buy the banker that has to go out of the way to find an available siege merchant. Also the banker has 480 slots with ESO+ if you include that with a characters max inventory of 205 now that is 685 slots total. "

You're going to blow me out by making an unsubstantiated claim? Sick. A banker is obviously not Pay to Win if you can't use it in PvP. This line of reasoning would also suggest that a) players are filling up their inventory to the brim with siege b) siege is what determines who wins and who loses in PvP. Both of which are untrue, but this argument holds even less water with PvP that doesn't involve siege at all whatsoever. Besides the fact that there are plenty of people who participate in Cyrodil PvP that don't siege period. Are those people at a disadvantage too? Of course not, because 5 inventory slots don't add any efficacy to your character in any pillar of play. All that I hear is that you're attempting to mask your inadequacy by making excuses and projecting on people that spend money in the crown store. I wouldn't play a Pay to Win game, and I think that most people would identify with that sentiment. If you believe this game is Pay to Win, why are you playing?

[Edit to remove references of quoted content that was removed]

Grimm13

We already have the ability to purchase inventory slots in the crown store, this expands on that. Inventory slots is generally not counted as P2W in games. P2W is used to describe a combat advantage which this does not give.

It is unlike the assistants that can grant an advantage by the fact they are interactable during combat by players. People use this to make targeting them or NPC's more difficult for others. There is absolutely no other reason to have them active while you are in combat as you can not do both. If you want to claim someone in group might want to use it, when you move it moves and breaks their use so unless you are a sloth you move in combat.

Elsonso

IDK/Prefer not to answer

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Hippie4927 wrote: »

Please explain how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W.

Few months down the line - "Please explain how 20 extra inventory slots is P2W"
One year later and 50+ pets x 5 slots - ???!!!

I mean, sure, how is an additional 250 slots pay to win? Doesn't increase DPS. Doesn't increase sustain or survivability.

What if it does? What if those extra slots are used to store gear that becomes BIS after some radical change in the combat rules? (I know, I know... that would never happen) Anyway, those extra slots allowed that player to save that gear, and so they can immediately start using it while everyone else is frantically trying to grind, or buy, the sets.

Grimm13

lordrichter wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Hippie4927 wrote: »

Please explain how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W.

Few months down the line - "Please explain how 20 extra inventory slots is P2W"
One year later and 50+ pets x 5 slots - ???!!!

I mean, sure, how is an additional 250 slots pay to win? Doesn't increase DPS. Doesn't increase sustain or survivability.

What if it does? What if those extra slots are used to store gear that becomes BIS after some radical change in the combat rules? (I know, I know... that would never happen) Anyway, those extra slots allowed that player to save that gear, and so they can immediately start using it while everyone else is frantically trying to grind, or buy, the sets.

What if buying access to a DLC grants players more skill points to gain an advantage of skills over those that do not have access to the same. Oh wait, I think I see your point...

Olauron

lordrichter wrote: »

What if it does? What if those extra slots are used to store gear that becomes BIS after some radical change in the combat rules? (I know, I know... that would never happen) Anyway, those extra slots allowed that player to save that gear, and so they can immediately start using it while everyone else is frantically trying to grind, or buy, the sets.

This new pet is nothing compared to ESO+ considering all the extra slots from bank space and craft bag.

Elsonso

IDK/Prefer not to answer

Grimm13 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Hippie4927 wrote: »

Please explain how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W.

Few months down the line - "Please explain how 20 extra inventory slots is P2W"
One year later and 50+ pets x 5 slots - ???!!!

I mean, sure, how is an additional 250 slots pay to win? Doesn't increase DPS. Doesn't increase sustain or survivability.

What if it does? What if those extra slots are used to store gear that becomes BIS after some radical change in the combat rules? (I know, I know... that would never happen) Anyway, those extra slots allowed that player to save that gear, and so they can immediately start using it while everyone else is frantically trying to grind, or buy, the sets.

What if buying access to a DLC grants players more skill points to gain an advantage of skills over those that do not have access to the same. Oh wait, I think I see your point...

I don't think that ZOS really intends to run an equitable game. That was clear from the moment they switched to B2P + ESO Plus and then added the crafting bag. Clearly, people who spend more money on the game get more game out of the experience.

daim

No, and I have ESO+

P2W is something like .. you start a new mobile game, you find it fun, you do the daily stuff. Then you find some mates and do stuff with them, raid a neighboring village or something. The next day you come online and find yourself and your buddies village burnt to the ground and notice that your neighbor has spent 100$ for his castle which is now unbreakable and protected by a bubble and your only option is to buy a bigger fortress. (Some might guess the name of this game ).

P2W is not having a 5 slot more inventory space than your buddy. even 500 slots more is not p2w because the more inventory space you have the more trash you'll collect, trust me. I have maxed slots for 10 toons and bank. And I still run out of inventory space QQ

P2W is obviously something we need to keep an eye out for of course. I'd say the store pots are far more P2W than the inventory slots though, but we have accepted those, right ?

aquiella

No, and I have ESO+

That pet is not P2W. I didn't even realize (didn't read the pet's description) it gave 5 more slots. I appreciate that cuz I needed it! I wish they increased bag space this patch since they are introducing more in-game items.

Contaminate

aquiella wrote: »

That pet is not P2W. I didn't even realize (didn't read the pet's description) it gave 5 more slots. I appreciate that cuz I needed it! I wish they increased bag space this patch since they are introducing more in-game items.

They should have been releasing more gold-purchased bag space upgrades with every major update. But why do that when they can “gently encourage” everyone to buy ESO+ with constant materials and gear additions, and present cap-breaking cash upgrades disguised as a cosmetics instead?

Starlock

Yes, and I have ESO+

Contaminate wrote: »

aquiella wrote: »

That pet is not P2W. I didn't even realize (didn't read the pet's description) it gave 5 more slots. I appreciate that cuz I needed it! I wish they increased bag space this patch since they are introducing more in-game items.

They should have been releasing more gold-purchased bag space upgrades with every major update. But why do that when they can “gently encourage” everyone to buy ESO+ with constant materials and gear additions, and present cap-breaking cash upgrades disguised as a cosmetics instead?

Folks need to keep this stuff in mind more often, because this really is what is driving decisions in games like ESO, unfortunately.

Developers deliberately allow problematic game mechanics to persist (or introduce them outright!) so they can later sell people solutions to problems they themselves created. It's predatory, manipulative, underhanded rubbish. It should be called out at every opportunity for precisely what it is. Fixating on whether or not a predatory microtransaction is "pay to win" is utterly missing the point and allows these predators to continue to play people for fools.

CiliPadi

Yes, and I have ESO+

Starlock wrote: »

Folks need to keep this stuff in mind more often, because this really is what is driving decisions in games like ESO, unfortunately.

Developers deliberately allow problematic game mechanics to persist (or introduce them outright!) so they can later sell people solutions to problems they themselves created. It's predatory, manipulative, underhanded rubbish. It should be called out at every opportunity for precisely what it is. Fixating on whether or not a predatory microtransaction is "pay to win" is utterly missing the point and allows these predators to continue to play people for fools.

That's the phrase I am looking for... Predatory Microtransactions.

FinneganFroth

No, and I have ESO+

I named my war boar today.

idk

No, and I have ESO+

Grimm13 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Hippie4927 wrote: »

Please explain how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W.

Few months down the line - "Please explain how 20 extra inventory slots is P2W"
One year later and 50+ pets x 5 slots - ???!!!

I mean, sure, how is an additional 250 slots pay to win? Doesn't increase DPS. Doesn't increase sustain or survivability.

What if it does? What if those extra slots are used to store gear that becomes BIS after some radical change in the combat rules? (I know, I know... that would never happen) Anyway, those extra slots allowed that player to save that gear, and so they can immediately start using it while everyone else is frantically trying to grind, or buy, the sets.

What if buying access to a DLC grants players more skill points to gain an advantage of skills over those that do not have access to the same. Oh wait, I think I see your point...

Two things. There are more than enough SP in the base game to make a character just as strong in combat as someone who does not have access to any DLCs. Also, everyone gets access to every DLC multiple times a year. Durting that time they are able to get all the DLC shards and DPS along with BoE gear that only drops in the DLC zones (as well as crafting them).

So um, yea.

Lylith

p2w?

no.

overpriced?

yes.

starkerealm

thorwyn wrote: »

Of course it is p2w.
You can now carry 205* 200 health potions
Think about it...it's 41000 potions!

Mother of Todd!

That'd take over 21 days of constant spamming to run out. You'd be invincible, assuming nothing killed you on cooldown.

nickl413

No, and I have ESO+

From ESO+ giving access to DLCs, to riding skill upgrades, to the banker and the merchant, ZOS has had a long history of selling us useful things that don't give an unfair, otherwise unobtainable advantage in pve or pvp. I fail to see how 5 extra slots is that slippery slope that leads us to P2W.

Katahdin

No, and I have ESO+

Because 5 spaces per character doesn't even put a dent in storage capacity don't mean diddly.

P.s. I did not buy the pet

A_Silverius

Kahnak wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Hippie4927 wrote: »

Please explain how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W.

Few months down the line - "Please explain how 20 extra inventory slots is P2W"
One year later and 50+ pets x 5 slots - ???!!!

A string of hypothetical situations is not an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W and is not particularly compelling.

You've sorely misunderstood my point. It wasn't an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W but how it could lead to a "hypothetical situation" where it could be considered p2w and neither was it* my aim to impress you or anyone.

I can already see it in the crown store:
20 extra inventory slots + 4 reskinned pets bundle - 2500 crowns.
50 extra inventory slots + 10 reskinned pets bundle - 5000 crowns
100 extra inventory slots + 20 reskinned pets bundle - 9000 crowns

Here's another hypothetical situation, maybe they won't even reskin pets but instead reuse the existing pets and stick a 5 extra inventory slots to each of them and sell them in the above mentioned hypothetical crown store bundles too.

But ofc this is all just hypothetical!

You've sorely misunderstood what the word 'compelling' means and putting quotes around the word hypothetical doesn't make it less hypothetical. Conjecture is not helpful to the discussion.

Even if what you've suggested is the case, it's not Pay to Win - it's still Pay to Convenience. Even if it were 1000 additional inventory slots, inventory provides no advantage over other players aside from convenience. That would imply that a banker or merchant is an unfair advantage. If that is what you believe, you may want to consider playing a game without a cash shop. You can call it greedy - I do. You may have a negative opinion of the crown store - a lot of people do. Neither of these opinions are relevant to the P2W discussion. It seems to me that this P2W accusation comes from people who have never played a game that is actually P2W and have no frame of reference. You can hypothesize all you want, but not one person has been able to provide anything demonstrable that would suggest that an additional Ballista or stack of trash potions in your inventory is going to provide the crux for victory in Cyrodil.

Kahnak wrote: »

It's pretty impressive how many amazing players come out of the woodwork whose PvP losses are so marginal that they could be attributed to the other teams acquisition of 5 additional inventory slots. It's almost as if buying a non-combat pet has turned the average player into a living god.

If it was my aim to be compelling, surely what I wrote would've been marked with content meant to impress for it to be considered "compelling" wouldn't it? Regardless that was not my intention, it was more of a warning of what it could possibly be like in the future of predatory mtxs.

It seems someone has already explained that the banker and merchant assistants are disabled in pvp for obvious reasons.

If you've been reading why people people are not in favour of this than you'd understand that it's not just the 5+ inventory slots that we have a problem with but what it could mean for the future of ZO$' monetisation practices. It is not a conjecture when the proof is right there in the crown store for only 1200 crowns, and you know there's going to be more of where that came from since there are people who are supporting this business practice.

Judging by several posts you've made here, it's clear that you're more interested in exercising your mental gymnastics and mixing word salads than the actual discussion. Consistently questioning people's understanding of certain words isn't helpful to the discussion either.

Kahnak wrote: »

If you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the words 'advantage' or 'demonstrable' mean this makes sense.

Kahnak wrote: »

as I previously stated, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the word 'advantage' means. If you come to a race barefoot you are a moron - not a victim of the Crown Store. What an embarrassing allegory.

Lets be honest and put it plainly, you're low key insulting our friend @Rave the Histborn here when you said that and its an obvious attempt to bait a reaction out of him which I should remind you that it is a violation of the forum community rules.

BRogueNZ

No, and I have ESO+

if so then eso+ is the same (frees up inv), which it's not, so it isn't..

Veles

An interesting thing, everyone is so keen on the issue of p2w regarding the new pet, but absolutely do not notice low-level pvp, where 10 level players run with purchased skyshards, guilds and thus have a tremendous superiority over the others

A_Silverius

Veles wrote: »

An interesting thing, everyone is so keen on the issue of p2w regarding the new pet, but absolutely do not notice low-level pvp, where 10 level players run with purchased skyshards, guilds and thus have a tremendous superiority over the others

There were people who were saying its p2w too and some gave reasonable suggestions to put a level requirement to purchase them, but naturally the playerbase defended it tooth and nail. So what we have now is ZO$ continuing to push the limits of their mtx schemes while players defend their predatory mtx model.

idk

No, and I have ESO+

A_Silverius wrote: »

Veles wrote: »

An interesting thing, everyone is so keen on the issue of p2w regarding the new pet, but absolutely do not notice low-level pvp, where 10 level players run with purchased skyshards, guilds and thus have a tremendous superiority over the others

There were people who were saying its p2w too and some gave reasonable suggestions to put a level requirement to purchase them, but naturally the playerbase defended it tooth and nail. So what we have now is ZO$ continuing to push the limits of their mtx schemes while players defend their predatory mtx model.

Not really.

First off, at level 10 one can buy all the sky shards in the world and they still only have a few skills and passives to use them on.

The real issue was guild skill lines and many of us suggested the skills be gated to levels and not fully unlocked until lvl 50 or at least much later in the leveling process. While some agreed the Zos' design was fine a great many suggested the same as I just said or similar. So to suggest the player base defended what Zos implemented tooth and nail is off from reality a bit. Quite a bit.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

5 extra slots is a hard red line for ZoS to cross. Remember the Crown Store was meant to be cosmetics only and not they sell everything to make matters worse they are adding in game value to pets this is a step too far.

No it’s not P2W but what it is, is the death of cosmetic pets combat pets are right behind this. Locked behind a paywall of course.

Korah_Eaglecry

A modest list of inventory slots available in store prior to the introduction of the Bristleback War Boar non-combat pet.

• Bag Space Upgrade 1,000 Crowns
• Bank Space Upgrade 1,000 Crowns
• Crown Lesson: Riding Capacity (10) 1,000 Crowns
• Storage Chest, Fortified 2,000 Crowns
• Storage Chest, Oaken 2,000 Crowns
• Storage Chest, Secure 2,000 Crowns
• Storage Chest, Sturdy 2,000 Crowns
• Storage Coffer, Oaken 1,000 Crowns
• Storage Coffer, Secure 1,000 Crowns
• Storage Coffer, Sturdy 1000 Crowns
• Additional Character Slot (10) 1,500 Crowns
• ESO +

This does not include the other forms of convenience the store offers like Bankers, Merchants, Vampirism, Lycanthropy, Skilllines, Skill Shards, Race Changes as well as a Class and the Paywalled Race.


But sure, these 5 slots attached to a non-combat pet is the corner ZOS has finally turned towards P2W.

IndorilArwynLlethran

No, and I have ESO+

Thx OP for posting this, if not you I would never buy that ugly trash, coz I simply never buy pets and never read their description. Finally a useful ugly trash

idk

No, and I have ESO+

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

5 extra slots is a hard red line for ZoS to cross. Remember the Crown Store was meant to be cosmetics only and not they sell everything to make matters worse they are adding in game value to pets this is a step too far.

No it’s not P2W but what it is, is the death of cosmetic pets combat pets are right behind this. Locked behind a paywall of course.

If this is how your truly feel about it I expect you are no longer paying for a sub or buying any DLCs. Of course it goes without saying not buying any crowns.

If I felt that strongly about this pet I would no longer support the game by any means. Honestly, I would not even have to think this would lead to combat pets even though that does seem a little be of a worthless ides for Zos since the game is so easy. But still.

Otherwise is seems like selling ones gaming soul.

lagrue

No, and I have ESO+

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Franckystationb16_ESO wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

The boar is giftable that means that 360k gold is the regular price of the new pet. Don't tell me you are not capable of making 360k gold. Just by doing daily writts on all characters every day will grant you that in a week.

At the end of the day someone had to put money real life money into the store in order to sell those crowns or the pet as a gift for in-game gold

when a game offers you in store the most powerful weapon of a game or an armor or an instant exp we talk about P2W, there is the inventory, moreover in most MMO online slots inventory can be bought in store, there is no question of "P2W" review your definitions and the meaning of the sentences

Pay to win means paying for an advantage, not paying for a single player style weapon that one shots all enemies.

Emm not exactly. P2W has meant that you could by something in the cash shop that would make your character stronger in combat than it could be with what is obtained in game. It would include a weapon that one shot enemies if nothing better was available in game.

In other words, this pet is not even close to P2W. If Zos sold a new tier of upgrade material past legendary (gold) that would be P2W. vMA weapons could be considered P2W if Zos did not grant total access to all DLCs during the free trials.

No pay to win is an advantage.

Kahnak wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Hippie4927 wrote: »

Please explain how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W.

Few months down the line - "Please explain how 20 extra inventory slots is P2W"
One year later and 50+ pets x 5 slots - ???!!!

A string of hypothetical situations is not an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W and is not particularly compelling.

You've sorely misunderstood my point. It wasn't an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W but how it could lead to a "hypothetical situation" where it could be considered p2w and neither was it* my aim to impress you or anyone.

I can already see it in the crown store:
20 extra inventory slots + 4 reskinned pets bundle - 2500 crowns.
50 extra inventory slots + 10 reskinned pets bundle - 5000 crowns
100 extra inventory slots + 20 reskinned pets bundle - 9000 crowns

Here's another hypothetical situation, maybe they won't even reskin pets but instead reuse the existing pets and stick a 5 extra inventory slots to each of them and sell them in the above mentioned hypothetical crown store bundles too.

But ofc this is all just hypothetical!

You've sorely misunderstood what the word 'compelling' means and putting quotes around the word hypothetical doesn't make it less hypothetical. Conjecture is not helpful to the discussion.

Even if what you've suggested is the case, it's not Pay to Win - it's still Pay to Convenience. Even if it were 1000 additional inventory slots, inventory provides no advantage over other players aside from convenience. That would imply that a banker or merchant is an unfair advantage. If that is what you believe, you may want to consider playing a game without a cash shop. You can call it greedy - I do. You may have a negative opinion of the crown store - a lot of people do. Neither of these opinions are relevant to the P2W discussion. It seems to me that this P2W accusation comes from people who have never played a game that is actually P2W and have no frame of reference. You can hypothesize all you want, but not one person has been able to provide anything demonstrable that would suggest that an additional Ballista or stack of trash potions in your inventory is going to provide the crux for victory in Cyrodil.

it's not Pay to Win - it's still Pay to Convenience.

Have you ever actually played a pay to win game? That is the whole point of pay to win.

Even if it were 1000 additional inventory slots, inventory provides no advantage over other players aside from convenience.

Except for the additional 1000 inventory slots which are pay to win as you are PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE NON PAYING PLAYERS ARE ABLE TO GET. This is an advantage over other players, if you can keep going through dungeons without ever having to sell/decon compared to a player with 200 inventory slots. 5x your inventory space is a giant advantage because it means more time spent playing vs managing inventory.

You can hypothesize all you want, but not one person has been able to provide anything demonstrable that would suggest that an additional Ballista or stack of trash potions in your inventory is going to provide the crux for victory in Cyrodil.

So if we take your hypothetical situation and say we have a pug of 20 players that have paid to have 1000 inventory slots vs 20 pug players with 200 inventory slots. Now PVP siege generally doesn't stack so who do you think is going to have a greater advantage in Cyrodiil. The players with enough slots to hold unlimited pvp plus additional resources and armor sets so they never have to access a merchant or the other group with the standard inventory space? Hmmm seems like something like that could be the crux for victory in Cyrodiil.

If you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the words 'advantage' or 'demonstrable' mean this makes sense. It's pretty impressive how many amazing players come out of the woodwork whose PvP losses are so marginal that they could be attributed to the other teams acquisition of 5 additional inventory slots. It's almost as if buying a non-combat pet has turned the average player into a living god.

"Except for the additional 1000 inventory slots which are pay to win as you are PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE NON PAYING PLAYERS ARE ABLE TO GET. This is an advantage over other players, if you can keep going through dungeons without ever having to sell/decon compared to a player with 200 inventory slots. 5x your inventory space is a giant advantage because it means more time spent playing vs managing inventory."

Except 1000 inventory slots is obvious hyperbole and you just spent however long attempting to refute a blatant exaggeration. As previously stated in the post that you copied but failed to actually read, *that would imply that a banker or merchant is an unfair advantage. If that is what you believe, you may want to consider playing a game without a cash shop.*

Obviously it's pay to win XD, why do you think it's disabled in PVP?

[Edit to remove bait]

I agree with alot of what's said, but this is patently false. It's disabled in PVP because merchants and bankers put more strain on the server and the PVP servers are already eating dirt. It also puts more strain on your PC/consoles ability to render everything, which in turn equates to lag also.

If everybody had their merchants out you could enjoy Cyrodiil in glorious 1FPS instead of 10 FPS.

That's the only reason they're disabled, nothing else. If you need any more proof, look no further than the fact that the "free" Fence merchant is also disabled in PVP, despite offering no potential advantage to PVP in any capacity. Afaik there's not even a place to steal stuff in Cyro except maybe at the gate camps? And even then I don't think so. It's all about reducing lag - or rather not making it worse than it already is.

It's the same as in heavy PVE content where everybody puts their pets away, because all of that adds to performance drop in some capacity. ZOS just knew that allowing bankers and merchants would mean people would create zergs where they all they take them out, then they'd roll into keeps causing a lagfest for everybody involved.
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A_Silverius

idk wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Veles wrote: »

An interesting thing, everyone is so keen on the issue of p2w regarding the new pet, but absolutely do not notice low-level pvp, where 10 level players run with purchased skyshards, guilds and thus have a tremendous superiority over the others

There were people who were saying its p2w too and some gave reasonable suggestions to put a level requirement to purchase them, but naturally the playerbase defended it tooth and nail. So what we have now is ZO$ continuing to push the limits of their mtx schemes while players defend their predatory mtx model.

Not really.

First off, at level 10 one can buy all the sky shards in the world and they still only have a few skills and passives to use them on.

The real issue was guild skill lines and many of us suggested the skills be gated to levels and not fully unlocked until lvl 50 or at least much later in the leveling process. While some agreed the Zos' design was fine a great many suggested the same as I just said or similar. So to suggest the player base defended what Zos implemented tooth and nail is off from reality a bit. Quite a bit.

I guess I need to spend more time on the forums then because it always seems to me that the majority is always defending ZO$' bad practices, its good to know I'm wrong at least on that part. It gives me a little more hope for ESO and its community.

A_Silverius

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

A modest list of inventory slots available in store prior to the introduction of the Bristleback War Boar non-combat pet.

• Bag Space Upgrade 1,000 Crowns
• Bank Space Upgrade 1,000 Crowns
• Crown Lesson: Riding Capacity (10) 1,000 Crowns
• Storage Chest, Fortified 2,000 Crowns
• Storage Chest, Oaken 2,000 Crowns
• Storage Chest, Secure 2,000 Crowns
• Storage Chest, Sturdy 2,000 Crowns
• Storage Coffer, Oaken 1,000 Crowns
• Storage Coffer, Secure 1,000 Crowns
• Storage Coffer, Sturdy 1000 Crowns
• Additional Character Slot (10) 1,500 Crowns
• ESO +

This does not include the other forms of convenience the store offers like Bankers, Merchants, Vampirism, Lycanthropy, Skilllines, Skill Shards, Race Changes as well as a Class and the Paywalled Race.


But sure, these 5 slots attached to a non-combat pet is the corner ZOS has finally turned towards P2W.

The difference is all of the above could be earned in-game other than additional character slot and eso+. Now we can expect more inventory and bank space to be placed behind a paywall.

lagrue

No, and I have ESO+

A_Silverius wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

A modest list of inventory slots available in store prior to the introduction of the Bristleback War Boar non-combat pet.

• Bag Space Upgrade 1,000 Crowns
• Bank Space Upgrade 1,000 Crowns
• Crown Lesson: Riding Capacity (10) 1,000 Crowns
• Storage Chest, Fortified 2,000 Crowns
• Storage Chest, Oaken 2,000 Crowns
• Storage Chest, Secure 2,000 Crowns
• Storage Chest, Sturdy 2,000 Crowns
• Storage Coffer, Oaken 1,000 Crowns
• Storage Coffer, Secure 1,000 Crowns
• Storage Coffer, Sturdy 1000 Crowns
• Additional Character Slot (10) 1,500 Crowns
• ESO +

This does not include the other forms of convenience the store offers like Bankers, Merchants, Vampirism, Lycanthropy, Skilllines, Skill Shards, Race Changes as well as a Class and the Paywalled Race.


But sure, these 5 slots attached to a non-combat pet is the corner ZOS has finally turned towards P2W.

The difference is all of the above could be earned in-game other than additional character slot and eso+. Now we can expect more inventory and bank space to be placed behind a paywall.

and ESO+ is by a longshot the most important one on that list considering it doubles your bank space, doubles your furnishing space AND gives you the infinite craft bag.

You know, you've done it - you've inspired me. I wasn't going to do it, but I'm going to go vote with my wallet and buy the pig. It's such a non-issue it's hilarious watching people writhe over it like it's fundamentally game changing.