Do you consider the new pet p2w

Gnome_Saiyan

IDK/Prefer not to answer

I have opinions on the matter, but that's all they are.

idk

No, and I have ESO+

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Franckystationb16_ESO wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

The boar is giftable that means that 360k gold is the regular price of the new pet. Don't tell me you are not capable of making 360k gold. Just by doing daily writts on all characters every day will grant you that in a week.

At the end of the day someone had to put money real life money into the store in order to sell those crowns or the pet as a gift for in-game gold

when a game offers you in store the most powerful weapon of a game or an armor or an instant exp we talk about P2W, there is the inventory, moreover in most MMO online slots inventory can be bought in store, there is no question of "P2W" review your definitions and the meaning of the sentences

Pay to win means paying for an advantage, not paying for a single player style weapon that one shots all enemies.

Emm not exactly. P2W has meant that you could by something in the cash shop that would make your character stronger in combat than it could be with what is obtained in game. It would include a weapon that one shot enemies if nothing better was available in game.

In other words, this pet is not even close to P2W. If Zos sold a new tier of upgrade material past legendary (gold) that would be P2W. vMA weapons could be considered P2W if Zos did not grant total access to all DLCs during the free trials.

mb10

The people saying “it’s not that bad” don’t understand what’s happening here.

This is just the beginning...

Davadin

No, and I have ESO+

Vlad9425 wrote: »

It's not strictly P2W but it's the beginning of the journey towards it. ZOS will see the acceptance of this and will put more and more things in the Crown Store which give the player some kind of advantage in the future no doubt.

it is not the beginning, i guarantee you that.

ESO+ itself is already a milestone in that path. paid skyshard and mount speed scrolls are another.

This pet changes nothing, adds nothing, undo nothing in the current progression.


#stoppigshaming

PizzaCat82

No, and I have ESO+

Its not the beginning, but it is the most blantant.

5cript

Yes, and I have ESO+

Sufficient amounts of Pay 2 Convenience become Pay 2 Win if given 2 players that start at the same time end up in total different places of progression and amount of characters for the same play time.

People who let themselves get fooled because "you dont need it to play the game" argument will further the drive to psychological trickery that makes people empty their bank accounts for less hassle.

Heard of fallout 76s outrage anyone? ESO Players would laugh hard.

SirAxen

No, and I have ESO+

P2W is offering gear with stats that give you a competitive advantage over others in the game. Inventory slots do nothing for leaderboards or defeating anything. Therefore, not P2W. The day ESO starts selling weapons and armor in the crown store with stats on them, then it's p2w.

Kahnak

No, and I have ESO+

5cript wrote: »

Sufficient amounts of Pay 2 Convenience become Pay 2 Win if given 2 players that start at the same time end up in total different places of progression and amount of characters for the same play time.

People who let themselves get fooled because "you dont need it to play the game" argument will further the drive to psychological trickery that makes people empty their bank accounts for less hassle.

Heard of fallout 76s outrage anyone? ESO Players would laugh hard.

"2 players that start at the same time end up in total different places of progression and amount of characters for the same play time."

This is the definition of Pay 2 Convenience. The objective in this game is not "Create the most characters" nor is it "Who can progress the fastest?". At no point will this ever give you an unfair advantage over other players. You can have a negative opinion of Paying for Convenience, but that doesn't make it Pay to Win.

mateosalvaje

No, and I have ESO+

Do you mean if you have the bank, mount, bag, and housing containers filled to capacity, (like I do) yet feel like you need to buy the Warboar for more more slots?

IT'S NOT PAY TO WIN, IT'S PAY TO HORDE.

mayasunrising

No, and I have ESO+

I'm still not understanding how this is pay to win. You can update you inventory TEN slots at a time with in-game gold. You don't have to spend any real world money. You don't even need an ESO sub to do it. There's still a max inventory cap. The pig won't allow you to exceed it.

Likewise; it's not scummy. ZOS already sells pets in the crown store (purchasable with in game gold via the Tamriel Crown Exchange, etc) and they already sell inventory slots (again, purchase-able for gold using TCE). In this case they combined the two for essentially the same price as 5 inventory slots and a pet. And the pet is adorable. I think it's actually a fun option.

If you don't buy this pet - or even even upgrade your inventory - you can still do all the base game content. I guess you need to define what you mean as "winning" because it's a persistent world game. There really is no winning.

Kiralyn2000

No, and I don't have ESO+

Kahnak wrote: »

5cript wrote: »

Sufficient amounts of Pay 2 Convenience become Pay 2 Win if given 2 players that start at the same time end up in total different places of progression and amount of characters for the same play time.

People who let themselves get fooled because "you dont need it to play the game" argument will further the drive to psychological trickery that makes people empty their bank accounts for less hassle.

Heard of fallout 76s outrage anyone? ESO Players would laugh hard.

"2 players that start at the same time end up in total different places of progression and amount of characters for the same play time."

This is the definition of Pay 2 Convenience. The objective in this game is not "Create the most characters" nor is it "Who can progress the fastest?". At no point will this ever give you an unfair advantage over other players. You can have a negative opinion of Paying for Convenience, but that doesn't make it Pay to Win.

And what about the difference between the highschool or college freshman who can play 8 hours a day, progressing faster than the 'steady job + overtime' guy who can play 8 hours a week? One of them is progressing faster than the other, is that also unfair? Is the one with lots of free time "winning" over the one without?

(at which point the guy with all the income can decide to spend a little $ in order to 'convenience' his 8 hours a week. Free time vs spending money, hmm that sounds familiar.)

Gnome_Saiyan

IDK/Prefer not to answer

mayasunrising wrote: »

I guess you need to define what you mean as "winning" because it's a persistent world game. There really is no winning.

Couldn't agree more on this. I get the arguments for Pay to Advantage. But to "win"? Semantics to be sure, but still, There's nothing to win. That would imply an ending...to an mmo.

BejaProphet

No, and I have ESO+

Regardless of whether one thinks that paying for storage is a step on the path of pay to win, it is undeniable NOT a new step taken with this pet.

It is a step already taken in storage chests, it is nowhere near as dramatic as the crafting bag.

So if you don’t like it, I can get that. But acting as if they’ve moved a step further down the road with this?

Give me a break.

imno007b14_ESO

No, and I have ESO+

Yeah, whatever it is, p2w is not it. Not sure what anyone thinks you "win" with it, aside from more convenience - but in in this case I wouldn't even call it that. I certainly wouldn't buy a pet for just 5 extra slots.

Kittytravel

No, and I have ESO+

mayasunrising wrote: »

I'm still not understanding how this is pay to win. You can update you inventory TEN slots at a time with in-game gold. You don't have to spend any real world money. You don't even need and ESO sub to do it. There's still a max inventory cap. The pug won't allow you to exceed it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493745/bristleneck-war-boar-waitasecond-what

Not to disagree with you just to inform you it does allow exceeding the inventory cap to 205.

scorpius2k1

mb10 wrote: »

The people saying “it’s not that bad” don’t understand what’s happening here.

This is just the beginning...

Agreed. There is a MUCH bigger picture being painted here, it's upsetting that so many cannot see it past a monochromatic sense. They will be the ones saying the same thing when every option is available as a purchasable option. Naivety seems to reign supreme when it comes to convenience and quantity over quality, especially nowadays, and especially the gaming industry. Gaming as a service is what is considered "gaming" is nowadays, it's a pretty sad state of affairs tbh. At least for the players (even the ones that think this is normal). Why play when you can pay? To each their own I guess...

scorpius2k1

Kittytravel wrote: »

mayasunrising wrote: »

I'm still not understanding how this is pay to win. You can update you inventory TEN slots at a time with in-game gold. You don't have to spend any real world money. You don't even need and ESO sub to do it. There's still a max inventory cap. The pug won't allow you to exceed it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493745/bristleneck-war-boar-waitasecond-what

Not to disagree with you just to inform you it does allow exceeding the inventory cap to 205.

Exactly. It exceeds the cap that is earnable in-game. But lets *shrug* it off like it's no big deal since the inventory (and every other system) in ESO is designed to be a pain in the a$$ to manage or play through. So, instead of addressing these issues, they offer a pay option as a cop out--something ZoS *SHOULD BE FIXING* for the players instead of exploiting yet another monetization scheme. I always found it rather odd that ALL items are infinitely stackable in the crafting bag paywall, but the normal bag has so much stuff that is not stackable just to make you use more inventory space. The same reason enemies drop so much useless trash. It's so easy to see that Money is over player QOL in ESO. The inventory is just a small piece of the bigger picture. ZoS isn't as bad as other companies, YET, but they are under Bethesda and I don't need to mention what's going on there the last few years. I miss the days, not too long ago, when gaming companies actually valued players to be more than payers-- even if just a little bit.

CassandraGemini

No, and I have ESO+

No one can deny that ZoS has been going down a road where they epanded the Crown Store to more than just cosmetics for a while now. Skyshards, skill lines and so on, and now this. So, I'm not saying that I don't see a pattern here, but still, come on, people, 5 slots? Never mind the 'big picture', but how is that specifically P2W? Yes, granted, it's 5 slots on all toons, but still, who, except maybe for the hardcore Trial people, uses ALL the available space in the bank, and the maximum inventory space on every single toon? So who really needs those 5 additional slots? Probably almost no one. And what advantage does the average player who doesn't hoard lots of different gear sets and whatnot gain from this? Probably none at all.

I'm not ashamed to admit that I bought the boar as soon as I saw him, because I am an absolute sucker for cute animals and that boar pretty much just screamed 'cute' right in my face. I couldn't care less about those slots. And no, I never bought skyshards or skill lines or any of this stuff, and I absolutely never will.

Ruvalie

Yes, and I have ESO+

Managing my inventory is the most annoying part of the game for me, so yes. People play for different reasons, so "winning" will mean different things to different people.

scorpius2k1

Ruvalie wrote: »

Managing my inventory is the most annoying part of the game for me, so yes. People play for different reasons, so "winning" will mean different things to different people.

This is right on point. P2W has a really subjective nature; one person will define different from another. "P2W" should be more appropriately defined as something that cannot be attained by means of earnability within the game itself. If a player only has one option, and that requires them to pay for feature they want, then what would you define it as? Instead of P2W, P2A...whatever...let's call it for what it is --- PAYWALLING. It is technically the company allowing exploitation of features their game, but in trade, you have to pay to do so. You are unlocking a feature that is otherwise not attainable other than through monetized features. It still is advantageous regardless if it's "competitive" in nature or not. This little piggy pet slot machine also allows you to exceed the maximum earnable slots in-game (205)...whether it's only 5 or 50, it's still the point that things like this should never be locked behind paywalling. If a game feature like that is going to be sold in the Crown Store, it should also be attainable in the game too, especially in the case of poorly (and intentionally) implemented features such as inventory. The same intentional exploitation could be said about skyshards and skill lines which are obviously designed to cause frustration and grind fatigue after you do it once, the easy solution: pay to avoid it.

It wont be long before more and more of this amazing game is paywalled, and it truly saddens me. I can't say enough how I wish ZOS would go back to a required monthly subscription model. Make it a bit cheaper than the competitition and allow free to play up to a certain level. ZOS makes money and maybe, just maybe the main focus wouldn't be entirely on monetization, and instead, actually fixing the game and greatly improving QOL. It's not 2014 anymore, time to move forward. Something like that would surely help from sliding down this slippery, and constant paywall slope.

ESO COULD EASILY be #1 if the company would allow it.

Kiralyn2000

No, and I don't have ESO+

What are your thoughts on paying for additional character slots? I mean, people who do that have more inventory spaces to work with (mules), can keep more different builds of characters around so that they can bring The Right Tool For The Job (pvp, trials, harvesting), can loot & sell more character-limited items than someone without, etc.


Has the game been p2w all the way from the beginning?

ACaptiveMind

Yes, and I have ESO+

svartorn wrote: »

ACaptiveMind wrote: »

"This isn't poison. Also, this poison is in too small a quantity to be harmful."

Not a persuasive train of thought for me.

I mean, you could call them shoes or poison and your argument is just as bad.

If y'all are gonna complain about ZOS, at least be honest about it, if it's not too hard for you.

Sir or ma'am, I protest the insinuation that I am cowardly or mentally challenged. Since you don't seem to understand what I'm touching on, I will explain:

I did not provide an argument, but rather an observation on how some of the arguments against it being P2W are contradictory.

I'm not as concerned about ZOS as I am about the definition of P2W. Debates like the one I'm seeing can get sloppy because people don't define exactly what they're talking about. It can be made simpler.

I think the hog is P2W by the strictest technical definition. I don't think it's winning by much, but it doesn't have to be for it to count as that.

If you gave one of the three factions in Cyrodiil +5 inventory slots and denied it to the other two, that one should have a statistically greater chance of winning, all other things being equal (room for extra siege equipment and other resources). Now gate that difference behind a payment that does not include the expansion of a scalable game, but pays only for something that gives an advantage over those who do not pay.

We can call it 'Pay2Advantage' if that will help prevent people from getting hung up on the word 'Win', but the concept is still the same.

Also, ESO+ does not count as P2W because it's a marketing strategy. ESOblank is a demo with limits.

A_Silverius

Kahnak wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Hippie4927 wrote: »

Please explain how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W.

Few months down the line - "Please explain how 20 extra inventory slots is P2W"
One year later and 50+ pets x 5 slots - ???!!!

A string of hypothetical situations is not an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W and is not particularly compelling.

You've sorely misunderstood my point. It wasn't an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W but how it could lead to a "hypothetical situation" where it could be considered p2w and neither was it* my aim to impress you or anyone.

I can already see it in the crown store:
20 extra inventory slots + 4 reskinned pets bundle - 2500 crowns.
50 extra inventory slots + 10 reskinned pets bundle - 5000 crowns
100 extra inventory slots + 20 reskinned pets bundle - 9000 crowns

Here's another hypothetical situation, maybe they won't even reskin pets but instead reuse the existing pets and stick a 5 extra inventory slots to each of them and sell them in the above mentioned hypothetical crown store bundles too.

But ofc this is all just hypothetical!

UrbanMonk

No, and I have ESO+

I want Sai as a Pet to carry my stuff around since I carried him pretty much all the way through Dragon guard. All he did was Bla Bla about honur and duty and some other stuff.

barney2525

This is nuts

and dont jump on the numbers, this isn't worth googling the actual numbers - thats not the point.

Character can expand to what, 150 slots with in-game gold?
Then they expand the Horse slots with in game gold by 60 to a total of 210 slots?

And there is Someone.... Anyone.... out there somewhere.... who actually thinks 5 more slots is some Huge Pay To Win Advantage????

Are people this hard up to find things to complain about?

Elsonso

IDK/Prefer not to answer

A_Silverius wrote: »

I can already see it in the crown store:
20 extra inventory slots + 4 reskinned pets bundle - 2500 crowns.
50 extra inventory slots + 10 reskinned pets bundle - 5000 crowns
100 extra inventory slots + 20 reskinned pets bundle - 9000 crowns

I don't think that is how they will do this, but I do think that they will continue to roll out new individual pack pets for about the same price through the rest of the life of the game. I think they will all be 5 slots, with maybe a larger one tossed in for something special, possibly a Crown Crate radiant apex non-gem pet. While I don't think that every new pet will be a pack pet, I expect one anywhere from 4, to 6, to 12 times per year.

Conservatively speaking, if we get 5 new slots per quarter and the game can survive until Dec 31, 2025, that's 125 additional pack pet slots per character. At 15 characters per account, that is 1875 additional pack pet slots per account. For 1200 Crowns each, a mere 30,000 Crowns.

Then again, we may never see another one.

Sinolai

No, and I have ESO+

Bought my first ESO+ last month (been playing over 4 years).
The pet doesnt make you more efficient in any other way than giving you +5 storage space. I consider this "pay for luxury" similar to Crafting Bag (monthly payment), banker and merchant. The pet is a welcome inventory management helper for those without ESO+ and willing to put (much less than I expected) money into it.

CiliPadi

Yes, and I have ESO+

WilhelmTheSlayer wrote: »

It's definitely a start and more will come.

This is what I am suspecting. They're testing the waters first with this. I think they will try to sell more inventory slots for $ .. and then more....

WildWilbur

Memnock wrote: »

I am so confused , how does 5 extra slots of inventory help you win ?

Because in these 5 extra slots are the 5 vMA weapons of the crowneer to pwnz0r you hard in pvp. Hadn't thought about that, had you? *evil laughter*

FearlessOne_2014

IDK/Prefer not to answer

It honestly doesn't matter what we few think. If the majority buys it. It justifies ZOS to adds more powerful more expensive items like this.

The question should not be, if it's P2W or not.

The question should be, if or not you'll continue playing as things like this pet gets expanded.

Me personally I don't care if a game is P2W or not. The only thing I care about is, if I'm getting enjoyment out of said game. That's all that matters to me. Everything else after that point is a afterthought.

Honest if you hate P2W in this day and age. Than you should stop playing MMOs altogether. Because P2W and micro-transactions, is now the new norm in this unregulated genre.