Do you consider the new pet p2w

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Yes, and I have ESO+

spartaxoxo wrote: »

And do you have ESO+

My answer is NO and you should stick to fricking simple questions, not force people make mistakes like I did clicking the wrong choice.

dem0n1k

No, and I don't have ESO+

If you think this pet is p2w, then ESO+ is even moreso p2w.
With ESO+ you get waaaayy more inventory space... soooooo much win!
*rubs face* with this much inventory space.. how can i lose!>@#?

GrimTheReaper45

IDK/Prefer not to answer

I think its more of a joke than anything. Like players want more inventory space and they only give us 5 slots.

Over all though zos is definitely getting a little pay to win or testing the waters to see what they can get away with.

Gifting for gold, totally pay to win. I dont care what anyone says on this. From a game play perspective it is no different from gold buying. If you have money irl you have money in game and much much faster than if you are trying to make gold through the game. That is HUGE, if you have gold you can always afford to get carried for the latest gear while other players of the same skill level are stuck with what they can get. Ya you can buy carries though gold you earn in game too but at least that requires doing something in game. Never mind being able to buy mats, sets, furniture plans, motifs recipes. WITH NO WORK REQUIRED IN GAME

If zos wants to tell me this isnt pay to win, give me 1000$ worth of crowns, eso plus for 3 months , ever chapter on a new account, by the time the eso plus runs out I will be 810, master crafter with ever available motif learned, with gold bis gear, with every vet trial skin and end it with more gold than I have on my main account now. with former emp

Speaking of motif, also pay 2 win. Became p2w the SECOND motifs were tied to master writs.

Skill lines might not be p2w but they definitely arnt a benefit to the game. Ill admit im slightly hypocritical here because i do want a boost to 50 available if youve leveled like 10 characters to 50. I justify that because I dont think they can make that grind fun anymore. Skill lines though are an excellent way to not improve areas of the game that arnt fun. They are NEVER going to go back and make psijic less of a terrible quest line to lvl, never doing to make mages guild fun or even give us the map markers for consoles, consoles are never seeing skyshard markers either, there never gunna go back and tweak or add more missions to db or tg dailies. All of those were opportunities to improve the game that they have no reason to do now and have incentive NOT to do.

Rave the Histborn

Yes, and I have ESO+

idk wrote: »

So the poll clearly shows that those who bother to enter this thread and respond that very few consider the pet P2W.

It also shows that even with within those who do not sub the majority do not consider the pet P2W and the same can easily be said for those who do sub.

Overwhelmingly people have responded that the long held P2W belief is that is has to make your character stronger in combat than can be obtained in game.

That's the reason the game is becoming pay to win though

svartorn wrote: »

ACaptiveMind wrote: »

"This isn't poison. Also, this poison is in too small a quantity to be harmful."

Not a persuasive train of thought for me.

I mean, you could call them shoes or poison and your argument is just as bad.

If y'all are gonna complain about ZOS, at least be honest about it, if it's not too hard for you.

What part aren't we being honest about? I dont care about p2w personally, but I find it's the people that claim it isnt p2w that constantly have to shift definitions and change things.

max_only

No, and I have ESO+

My eso + hasn’t run out yet, but I’m not signed up to renew. I love pigs and I hope they have the Arteaum pack rat next. I want it for cosmetics, the 5 slots are incidental.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Next we will be able to pay for a private server for you and 7 of your friends...

LucyferLightbringer

Yes, and I have ESO+

5 slots now feels like a small number, but i think we can agree there will be more pets like this. 10 pets in you will find yourself having 50 slots less than person who buys them and it will keep progressing further.

Anotherone773

No, and I have ESO+

Extra inventory slots is not a game changer. If it were ESO+ would be P2W. Not to mention you can gift the pet to people. so for like what? 1.2 mil gold??? you can have it without money. Thus it could never be pay to win anyway because you can earn it.

idk

No, and I have ESO+

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Yes, it is absolutely pay to win, much of the crown store is.

Only if you consider winning to be "looking fabulous!".

If looks could kill. Fortunatly it still takes player skill and gear. Skill is not sold in the cash shop and gear is only obtainable in game.

gabriebe

Yes, and I have ESO+

SHould have been given for free to ESO + members. Those statuettes are a joke.

Contaminate

At the start, ESO+ wasn't have been the make or break for inventory management.

But 5+ years of getting more and more materials, many in fragments, it has become so. It would have been simple to make more inventory slots available with each patch, another 10-20 you could buy in-game as normal would have been able to allow for a crafter to reasonably keep stock of most materials.

But providing in-game solutions isn't as lucrative when you can gradually push people into paying money so inventory management doesn't impede normal play. At this point, after Summerset is when I decided ESO+ absolutely was a P2W feature. At the very least, intentionally neglecting to adjust bank and inventory limits in order to make their paid system more appealing, is unquestionably player-hostile.

So no, 5-90 inventory slots (depending on character slots) isn't "P2W", but it's absolutely a negative trend to have stat boosts disguised as "cosmetics". This pet is basically an inventory upgrade that's not available for gold. (And no, Crown trading doesn't count ZOS is getting $$$ and encouragement to make more stat "cosmetics" every time an account unlocks the pet)

Minyassa

No, and I have ESO+

No. 5 inventory slots are not going to make someone "win". In fact if you've spent 3500 crowns on a paltry 5 inventory slots, you've lost.

Contaminate

Minyassa wrote: »

No. 5 inventory slots are not going to make someone "win". In fact if you've spent 3500 crowns on a paltry 5 inventory slots, you've lost.

Assuming you have the full amount of free characters (8), you get 40 total inventory slots from the pet, if you have the max (18) it gives you 90 total inventory slots.

The pet is also 1,200 Crowns. So 1,200 Crowns for the equivalent of 4 inventory upgrades (typically 1,000 crowns) for an otherwise non-spending player. 4 upgrades that should have been placed into the game itself, not the cash shop.

starkerealm

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

What part aren't we being honest about? I dont care about p2w personally, but I find it's the people that claim it isnt p2w that constantly have to shift definitions and change things.

Probably because there's different, "tiers," of P2W.

• Selling minor combat advantages that could tip the balance between two comparable players.
• Selling major advantages that will dominate combat, and require significant skill to overcome.
• Selling advantages that provide a direct tactical advantage, but don't simply modify stats or damage. (XP and loot accelerators can be examples of this, depending on the game.) (This can also include overtuned, "sidegrades.")
• Paywalled "ceilings," that can only be circumvented by spending money.

There's also incidents where people will take purely cosmetic items, and claim those are P2W, simply because they want them, and think they should be available for free.

So, this isn't even people moving the goalposts on you, it's just, there's more than one kind of P2W, and depending who's speaking, determines on what variety you encounter.

spartaxoxo

No, and I don't have ESO+

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

And do you have ESO+

My answer is NO and you should stick to fricking simple questions, not force people make mistakes like I did clicking the wrong choice.

I didn't force you to make a mistake. You did that all on your own.

ATomiX69

Yes, and I don't have ESO+

Only aquireable through the real money store and has an effect on gameplay (no matter how small it is) = P2W per definition.
This is just a small step to test the waters (yet again), same scenario as we had with skill lines:
First they introduced skyshards for crowns and then a few months later following up with all other skill lines.
Yes you can just get it through crowns to gold , but at the end of the day the "crown seller" still paid real money for it.
And also keep in mind Gold <=> Crowns is only not against ToS because ZOS gets their cut

spartaxoxo

No, and I don't have ESO+

ATomiX69 wrote: »

Only aquireable through the real money store and has an effect on gameplay (no matter how small it is) = P2W per definition.
This is just a small step to test the waters (yet again), same scenario as we had with skill lines:
First they introduced skyshards for crowns and then a few months later following up with all other skill lines.
Yes you can just get it through crowns to gold , but at the end of the day the "crown seller" still paid real money for it.
And also keep in mind Gold <=> Crowns is only not against ToS because ZOS gets their cut

I mean first was ESO+ which increases your inventory space far more AND requires monthly payment to use....

Grianasteri

No, and I have ESO+

It cannot be considered pay to win, because it offers no competitive advantage over opponents and no progression as such. Its just inventory space.

zyk

Yes, and I don't have ESO+

It's the same back and forth we see about this topic. Many people have very specific definitions of both p2w and what it is to win. While others have a more granular view.

ESO has has many facets. Winning comes in different forms. It may mean completely different things to an overland player, dungeon/trial player, pvp player, trader, roleplayer, etc..

To extremely social players, I am certain having nice homes full of rare, interesting furniture can be an example of winning.

I don't think anyone is particularly sore about this particular item. It's that it feels like another slip down the slope.

My expectation for a subscription MMO is to be able to experience the vast majority of the content through gameplay. It is ridiculous to me that there aren't epic mounts and so little housing obtained through adventuring.

Inventory is a particularly painful point for some. It was for me when I played this game more seriously. If one experiments with the majority of sets in the game, inventory quickly becomes an issue. One of the reasons I stopped playing new dungeons is because I was sick of trying to find space for more sets.

Not only are new items and sets introduced at a very high rate, weapons, jewellery and armor come in multiple traits. There are many cases where I want sets in multiple traits. What's the point of that variety when it is so painful to collect and utilize? This game has needed an equipment bag for years.

It's obvious ZOS bloats our inventory to incentivize ESO+; and now this pet. Homestead inventory was designed to be inconvenient to maintain this. For all the sets and other items I would collect if I could as thoroughly as I'd like to, twice as much bank space wouldn't be enough.

I understand the monetization strategy in ESO doesn't bother everyone, but I am extremely frustrated by it.

redlink1979

Other poll option: I consider that just 5 slots aren't worth 1200 crowns. I'd rather spend 1200 crowns on something else.

Dusk_Coven

No, and I don't have ESO+

Grianasteri wrote: »

It cannot be considered pay to win, because it offers no competitive advantage over opponents and no progression as such. Its just inventory space.

Amazing that the pay-to-win complainers pick a pig that gives you 5 inventory slots instead of talking about skill lines and the effect it had on under-50 BG https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493330/pre-50-bgs-are-now-pay-to-win

starkerealm

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

It cannot be considered pay to win, because it offers no competitive advantage over opponents and no progression as such. Its just inventory space.

Amazing that the pay-to-win complainers pick a pig that gives you 5 inventory slots instead of talking about skill lines and the effect it had on under-50 BG https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493330/pre-50-bgs-are-now-pay-to-win

I have talked about the skill lines, and the skyshards, and how one by itself wasn't an issue, but when you stick them both in, it starts to become a real problem. I've talked about the issues with skills like Dawnbreaker being available in sub-50 BGs, and I was, mostly, ignored.

I'm also entirely happy to say the pig is an issue, even if it's not outright P2W.

Eldartar

No, and I have ESO+

Hippie4927 wrote: »

Please explain how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W.

This.

ValueDrift

Yes, and I have ESO+

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

It cannot be considered pay to win, because it offers no competitive advantage over opponents and no progression as such. Its just inventory space.

instead of talking about skill lines and the effect it had on under-50 BG https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493330/pre-50-bgs-are-now-pay-to-win

Not instead, in addition to. The main argument against the pig is that it isn't just the pig, it's a long road of paid advantages that will continue to grow the gap between people who spend more and people who don't. ESO+, banker and merchant, purchased skill lines and skyshards, and now the new category of inventory pets are all part of the same road and the same argument. Every new addition increases the gap, and selling the solutions to in-game problems with more money means there will be more problems and not many solutions obtainable without paying.

MasterSpatula

IDK/Prefer not to answer

On the spectrum, certainly.

Dusk_Coven

No, and I don't have ESO+

ValueDrift wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

It cannot be considered pay to win, because it offers no competitive advantage over opponents and no progression as such. Its just inventory space.

instead of talking about skill lines and the effect it had on under-50 BG https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493330/pre-50-bgs-are-now-pay-to-win

Not instead, in addition to.

Can you prove it? The hoopla over skill lines in under-50 BG was never this big a kerfuffle. And there it is more clear what/how people were winning.

KoeKhaos

No, and I have ESO+

I mean, nothing is free. The game won't continue without income, so to me ESO+ is the same as paying a sub, and since each month you get more than enough crowns from your standard sub to pay for the pig, it's no biggie to me. I'd prefer no crown store, however, as I prefer to pay a sub and any content I want to try to get be available in game. Uunfortunately this is the way all games are going. Even WoW has $40 mounts sold... blehg.

ValueDrift

Yes, and I have ESO+

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

ValueDrift wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

It cannot be considered pay to win, because it offers no competitive advantage over opponents and no progression as such. Its just inventory space.

instead of talking about skill lines and the effect it had on under-50 BG https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493330/pre-50-bgs-are-now-pay-to-win

Not instead, in addition to.

Can you prove it? The hoopla over skill lines in under-50 BG was never this big a kerfuffle.

Forums were full of topics about the skill lines when they were introduced, just like there's now topics about the pig, and there's always topics about every new addition to the game. I've also seen the complaint of BGs before, though that did take more time to rise up since it wasn't immediately obvious to most of us, who rarely if ever play under 50 BGs. A part of the game that affects few people obviously gets less attention than parts of the game that affect everyone.

Can I prove that forums had topics on these subjects? Sure, it would take me maybe five to ten minutes to dig up and link the topics to you. Will I do it? No, I gain nothing from spending 10 minutes to do work that only benefits you.

Blud

IDK/Prefer not to answer

It's just questionable in light on the whole Fallout First business. Uninstalled FO76 and won't be going back. Here, 5 inventory slots is just the "testing the waters" of adding functionality. It is the slippery slope, but Bethesda has shown they can slide pretty fast in FO76. Of course, they want to milk ESO as much as they can if possible. I will keep an eye on it and I won't be buying the pet even though I have plenty of crowns from my sub.

Ysbriel

No, and I have ESO+

I have 3 friends that have not paid a single plus sub and have made millions in gold and put their gear in legendary easily. Sometimes the trick is not to hoard but to farm and store what really is profitable