Do you consider the new pet p2w

A_Silverius

Kahnak wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

Seeing as this person you're defending not only just called me a moron in his last post, but remarked specifically about his intention to try and embarrass me, that is exactly what you are doing. You have no interest in having an honest or civil discussion. If you did, you'd redirect your attention. Spare me your self righteous nonsense.

Which I disapprove as well. It is a shame that once we start insulting another, the natural human reaction would not take it as a compliment but instead the most common reaction would be a defense or an offense to the attack.

I guess if you've got someone white knighting for you, you can manage both offense and defense at the same time. Curious.

Believe what you want, my request is reasonable for all participants.

A_Silverius

Kahnak wrote: »

Sure, if it wasn't hypocritical.

nickl413

No, and I have ESO+

I heard Hodor was buying the pig for all core members to push their raid scores higher.

nickl413

No, and I have ESO+

I just got REKT in pvp. Pretty sure the guy was running pig.

nickl413

No, and I have ESO+

I just got kicked out of a vet dungeon pug group because I wasn't running pig.

nickl413

No, and I have ESO+

I watched a guy running pig in southern Elsweyr solo a dragon.

onemoredragon

No, and I don't have ESO+

nickl413 wrote: »

I just got kicked out of a vet dungeon pug group because I wasn't running pig.

Feeling sorry for you, that pig surely brought you hella lot of troubles.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

This game has been on the P2W spectrum since they made crowns giftable, thus allowing someone to convert cash to gold. It has arguably been on the P2W spectrum since the first time there was a CS item that saved time (mount training for example).

I think it's important to talk about P2W as a spectrum. The reality, is that outside of the crown selling, this game has been pretty good about not allowing things that are blatant P2W. Gold, isnt really that essential to character building outside of tempers to upgrade, on those can be acquired in other ways. If you take away paid clears of harder content, gold amounts to a time saver. As a general rule, I am fine with time savers being for sale, as long as there are other viable alternatives for the same thing. (Sidebar: I think something that is way more troubling is super grindy content like the psijic line, followed by psijic lines for sale).

Dont get me wrong, time is a fixed commodity so it does put it on the P2W spectrum (arguably any thing that you can pay for that saves time is on the spectrum), but there is a huge difference between that and say putting VMA items in the CS or worse, an powerful item in the CS that can't be obtained any other way. I dont see ESO jumping that particular shark, but who knows.

I see a 5-slot pet as barely worth a discussion. Using the Crown Store and ESO plus to boost your inventory has been one their most basic functions since they were launched. Sure, we have to think about the slippery slope, but I am not too worried about it in this particular case.

I simply can't envision a scenario where 5 slots of inventory is going to help me defeat another player in PVP or push a faster leaderboard in PVE. As far as I am concerned, those are about the only two ways to "win" in this game. So if an item doesnt help you do that, I dont see how paying for it is P2W (or at least not a dangerous form of P2W).

Enodoc

Depends on the definition of P2W that we're using.

If we're saying that P2W is being able to buy anything that gives you an advantage over another player, where that thing can't be earned in game, then yes. 5 inventory slots is minimal in scope but is still technically an advantage over another player who does not have them.

If we're saying that P2W is specifically only buying gear and items (i.e. something that increases your damage and resistance above what you can earn in-game), then no, as it does not do those things.

nickl413

No, and I have ESO+

So I gave in and bought the pig. I was able to kill the 6m dummy in 17 seconds. I did a flawless, no cp, naked VMA run, scored 700k and all my drops were legendary. And my guild just did a world's first vCR+5. video coming soon.

Goregrinder

No, and I have ESO+

Hey if I want to slot the pig in my PVP build, what should I drop to make room? My monster set? And how do I transmute my pig to Nirnhoned?

Contaminate

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I simply can't envision a scenario where 5 slots of inventory is going to help me defeat another player in PVP or push a faster leaderboard in PVE. As far as I am concerned, those are about the only two ways to "win" in this game. So if an item doesnt help you do that, I dont see how paying for it is P2W (or at least not a dangerous form of P2W).

We’ve already jumped that hurdle. The instaboosts for skill lines and the skill point packs are massive power boosts for <50 campaigns. They let you push leaderboards in PvP much faster, gain AP much faster, and pave a much easier path to Emperor and GO than any comparably skilled player who hasn’t paid for those boosts. It’s not possible to have maxed Undaunted, maxed FG, maxed Mages, and maxed Psijic on a character under 50. Much less a character under 50 with enough skill points to use all those passives.

The extra space for siege equipment is also a tactical advantage even if it’s a small one.


The pig is ZOS exploiting players’ grief with inventory management, which they continue making worse with no real solution in sight despite being fully able to provide free solutions. No additional bag upgrades since 2015, no bank upgrades since 2015, despite hundreds more materials, sets, furnishings, daily reward junk to be tossed every day. The best we’ve got are the storage coffers, which were better than they path of crown-only storage pouches disguised as cosmetics, but we haven’t gotten any more of those in nearly 2 years either.

Also for PvE, time spent is a factor in leaderboards. It’s why no one taps chests until after the run in a score push. If you loot a boss or trash and have to dump inventory for space, that has a direct impact on speed. Not much, but it’s there. It’s much simpler to have as much cushion space as possible for things you can’t avoid looting lest they disappear before you can cycle back around.

nickl413

No, and I have ESO+

Goregrinder wrote: »

Hey if I want to slot the pig in my PVP build, what should I drop to make room? My monster set? And how do I transmute my pig to Nirnhoned?

Drop your weapons and just use bash attacks, pig is that good. You can use it in a ranged build in a later update when pigs fly.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Contaminate wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I simply can't envision a scenario where 5 slots of inventory is going to help me defeat another player in PVP or push a faster leaderboard in PVE. As far as I am concerned, those are about the only two ways to "win" in this game. So if an item doesnt help you do that, I dont see how paying for it is P2W (or at least not a dangerous form of P2W).

We’ve already jumped that hurdle. The instaboosts for skill lines and the skill point packs are massive power boosts for <50 campaigns. They let you push leaderboards in PvP much faster, gain AP much faster, and pave a much easier path to Emperor and GO than any comparably skilled player who hasn’t paid for those boosts. It’s not possible to have maxed Undaunted, maxed FG, maxed Mages, and maxed Psijic on a character under 50. Much less a character under 50 with enough skill points to use all those passives.

The extra space for siege equipment is also a tactical advantage even if it’s a small one.


The pig is ZOS exploiting players’ grief with inventory management, which they continue making worse with no real solution in sight despite being fully able to provide free solutions. No additional bag upgrades since 2015, no bank upgrades since 2015, despite hundreds more materials, sets, furnishings, daily reward junk to be tossed every day. The best we’ve got are the storage coffers, which were better than they path of crown-only storage pouches disguised as cosmetics, but we haven’t gotten any more of those in nearly 2 years either.

Also for PvE, time spent is a factor in leaderboards. It’s why no one taps chests until after the run in a score push. If you loot a boss or trash and have to dump inventory for space, that has a direct impact on speed. Not much, but it’s there. It’s much simpler to have as much cushion space as possible for things you can’t avoid looting lest they disappear before you can cycle back around.

@Contaminate I will certainly give you the under 50 PVP argument with skill lines. We ran circles around that issue on the forums when they launched. Hard to say this game is not P2W in the under 50 campaign.

Your other two arguments, chest looting in score runs (by your own admission it doesnt happen until after anyway), and 5 extra pieces of siege in PVP, dont strike me as terribly compelling. Sure they are on the spectrum, but barely.

Also, the work around to inventory space is alts. My account has close to 4k item slots at this point. Still can be annoying, but coupled with the craft bag, it's doable.

Contaminate

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I simply can't envision a scenario where 5 slots of inventory is going to help me defeat another player in PVP or push a faster leaderboard in PVE. As far as I am concerned, those are about the only two ways to "win" in this game. So if an item doesnt help you do that, I dont see how paying for it is P2W (or at least not a dangerous form of P2W).

We’ve already jumped that hurdle. The instaboosts for skill lines and the skill point packs are massive power boosts for <50 campaigns. They let you push leaderboards in PvP much faster, gain AP much faster, and pave a much easier path to Emperor and GO than any comparably skilled player who hasn’t paid for those boosts. It’s not possible to have maxed Undaunted, maxed FG, maxed Mages, and maxed Psijic on a character under 50. Much less a character under 50 with enough skill points to use all those passives.

The extra space for siege equipment is also a tactical advantage even if it’s a small one.


The pig is ZOS exploiting players’ grief with inventory management, which they continue making worse with no real solution in sight despite being fully able to provide free solutions. No additional bag upgrades since 2015, no bank upgrades since 2015, despite hundreds more materials, sets, furnishings, daily reward junk to be tossed every day. The best we’ve got are the storage coffers, which were better than they path of crown-only storage pouches disguised as cosmetics, but we haven’t gotten any more of those in nearly 2 years either.

Also for PvE, time spent is a factor in leaderboards. It’s why no one taps chests until after the run in a score push. If you loot a boss or trash and have to dump inventory for space, that has a direct impact on speed. Not much, but it’s there. It’s much simpler to have as much cushion space as possible for things you can’t avoid looting lest they disappear before you can cycle back around.

@Contaminate I will certainly give you the under 50 PVP argument with skill lines. We ran circles around that issue on the forums when they launched. Hard to say this game is not P2W in the under 50 campaign.

Your other two arguments, chest looting in score runs (by your own admission it doesnt happen until after anyway), and 5 extra pieces of siege in PVP, dont strike me as terribly compelling. Sure they are on the spectrum, but barely.

Also, the work around to inventory space is alts. My account has close to 4k item slots at this point. Still can be annoying, but coupled with the craft bag, it's doable.

But the advantage is very much on the spectrum, which is the point. It’s a beginning where we’ll start seeing more of these crown-only upgrades being bundled with cosmetics. I have no illusion this will be the only one.

And the reliance on the craft bag, another payment-only storage being sold to us as a solution to the persistent inventory problem ZOS intentionally maintains, is yet another issue. Alts you play on need their own inventory space, alts you use for storage are a massive hassle by design if you use them for storage.

We as consumers have become way too lenient on letting “convenience” upgrades slip by without giving actual thought as to why the issues they’re “solving” aren’t being addressed by the developers. There’s no excuses for being ignorant of these predatory design schemes. Denying they exist and how prevalent they are doesn’t do anything to help the gaming industry’s ethical decline.

idk

No, and I have ESO+

Indoril_Nerevar wrote: »

Honestly?


Nothing is even worth a debate, nor an opinion anymore. The forums might as well be a fan based website only - because if ZOS is taking any information from us in consideration to their updates.. . than why the *** did it cause an Apocalypse?!?

Yes, it is to bad. People who want something different than it is and the overwhelming opinion on the issue is against them tend to act out a little bit.

lagrue

No, and I have ESO+

Unless you're also gonna advocate for the removal of ESO+ I don't see how you're gonna sit here and be upset about the pet.

magus.septim

its a slippery slope with P2W until you take an arrow to the knee

Franckh

No, and I have ESO+

lordrichter wrote: »

Franckystationb16_ESO wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

The boar is giftable that means that 360k gold is the regular price of the new pet. Don't tell me you are not capable of making 360k gold. Just by doing daily writts on all characters every day will grant you that in a week.

At the end of the day someone had to put money real life money into the store in order to sell those crowns or the pet as a gift for in-game gold

when a game offers you in store the most powerful weapon of a game or an armor or an instant exp we talk about P2W, there is the inventory, moreover in most MMO online slots inventory can be bought in store, there is no question of "P2W" review your definitions and the meaning of the sentences

As has been pointed out, 'winning' in this game involves the collection of cosmetics.

at all games around the world who have a shop and therefore no subscription and who offers the least fart (what is usually found in all shops) are P2W, so 2 only solutions to not see that, to go back on a subscription or to find people who work without having of salire ... the subject is thus closed?

Franckh

No, and I have ESO+

salary*

JKorr

No, and I have ESO+

leepalmer95 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

@leepalmer95

It increases your inventory slots by 5.

Its not p2w, but its stlll scummy af.

Nice to know that pets are no longer just cosmetics.

Next you'll see a mount that gives an extra 10% movement speed.

You mean like the original gaited horse did, in the first version of the game? One horse gave you extra speed, one gave extra inventory, one gave extra stamina. The fast horse started off 10 points higher, and you had to feed it the right food to boost it the "normal" 60. If you screwed up and fed your speed horse the food for inventory, you were crap out of luck because you couldn't redo/undo the feeding and reset the stats.

People could end up with mounts that were faster than someone else had, even if it was the "fast" version.

starkerealm

JKorr wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

@leepalmer95

It increases your inventory slots by 5.

Its not p2w, but its stlll scummy af.

Nice to know that pets are no longer just cosmetics.

Next you'll see a mount that gives an extra 10% movement speed.

You mean like the original gaited horse did, in the first version of the game? One horse gave you extra speed, one gave extra inventory, one gave extra stamina. The fast horse started off 10 points higher, and you had to feed it the right food to boost it the "normal" 60. If you screwed up and fed your speed horse the food for inventory, you were crap out of luck because you couldn't redo/undo the feeding and reset the stats.

People could end up with mounts that were faster than someone else had, even if it was the "fast" version.

Worth noting, that mount cost in game gold. The horses you could buy with money (the Palomino and the Imperial Horse) were both baseline models.

Ilision

IDK/Prefer not to answer

All I am going to say is that it is a can of worms. Is it possible that it will head that way sure but for now it is not.

deviousthevile

No, and I have ESO+

Ok too many replies so sorry if I am a repeat of someone else but....

I don;t consider the pet Pay to Win as it's not like houses where you HAVE to spend RL money. Get off your lazy tushes and farm some GD gold. Yes, 240k is a lot to some players. Mainly because they would rather spend time here complaining than going out and farming. But it's boring. I get it. But if you are not willing to do what you can to get it, you have no legs to stand on, and how long you think an amputee is gonna last in these feudal times? Damn near EVERYTHING in the crown store, you can get for gold (if you can find someone with crowns you trust), so turn this whiny, Pay to Win into a simple Play to Win by going out and earning some gold.

Sorry if I sound assy, but making gold in this game is easy, you just have to be willing to put the effort towards it. I've trained many new players on what and where to farm. These players went from under 40k in their banks to making a million gold a week. Just shows anyone can do it with dedication. Anyone. It doesn't matter if you PvP, you can load up AP and buy the sets from the towns. Alessian from Vlastarus is selling for upwards of 50k a piece for divines, and 20k for off traits. Idk what the Deadly set is going for, but TTC shows the daggers between 100k and 160k.

It's a rant, I apologize. Main point, don't down something because you don't want to work for it. Isn't that the issue with Pay to Win? People getting things without working for them? Hypocrisy, thy name is *enter your name here*

That said, Happy Hunting everyone!

ZOS_JesC

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