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Do you consider the new pet p2w
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JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, and I have ESO+Rave the Histborn wrote: »Franckystationb16_ESO wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »The boar is giftable that means that 360k gold is the regular price of the new pet. Don't tell me you are not capable of making 360k gold. Just by doing daily writts on all characters every day will grant you that in a week.
At the end of the day someone had to put money real life money into the store in order to sell those crowns or the pet as a gift for in-game gold
when a game offers you in store the most powerful weapon of a game or an armor or an instant exp we talk about P2W, there is the inventory, moreover in most MMO online slots inventory can be bought in store, there is no question of "P2W" review your definitions and the meaning of the sentences
Pay to win means paying for an advantage, not paying for a single player style weapon that one shots all enemies.
So 5 extra inventory slots will let me be emperor, take the top spots on the trials leaderboards, and totally dominate battlegrounds. Nice to know.
Although....I don't pvp, so being able to carry 5 more items isn't going to make the current emperor bow down before me.... I haven't even bothered/managed to do the version 2s of the undaunted pledges, so I doubt being able to carry 5 more items is going to make the current leaders throw up their hands in despair and leave the field to me....Never yet set foot in any battleground, so if everyone else will immediately jump off cliffs to make it easy for me to "win" just because I can carry 5 more items, that would be very nice and polite of them.
Do you mean the "advantage" is I can pick up 5 more items in a dungeon run before someone calls the banker or merchant? Kinda not though; if others don't have the "advantage" the banker/merchant is called before my inventory is full, so I still use them just like everyone else and people are good to go. If I'm only doing pve and solo content, then exactly how is being able to pick up 5 more items before I call the banker/merchant any kind of an advantage?
Let me buy armor that ignores all attacks; a weapon that ignores magic shields, real shields, armor, everything and one shots dragons, a potion that boosts every stat to the thousands and heals over 9000 a second....that would be an advantage.2 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, and I have ESO+mateosalvaje wrote: »Do you mean if you have the bank, mount, bag, and housing containers filled to capacity, (like I do) yet feel like you need to buy the Warboar for more more slots?
IT'S NOT PAY TO WIN, IT'S PAY TO HORDE.
Not intentional, but boy that is an interesting mental image. Homonyms. Horde, and Hoard.0 -
xxthir13enxx✭✭✭✭✭
✭IDK/Prefer not to answerWhere’s the
Yes because I want 5 slots for Free
Option?mateosalvaje wrote: »Do you mean if you have the bank, mount, bag, and housing containers filled to capacity, (like I do) yet feel like you need to buy the Warboar for more more slots?
IT'S NOT PAY TO WIN, IT'S PAY TO HORDE.
Not intentional, but boy that is an interesting mental image. Homonyms. Horde, and Hoard.
Edited by xxthir13enxx on November 12, 2019 1:27PM0 -
A_Silverius✭✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »A_Silverius wrote: »
I can already see it in the crown store:
20 extra inventory slots + 4 reskinned pets bundle - 2500 crowns.
50 extra inventory slots + 10 reskinned pets bundle - 5000 crowns
100 extra inventory slots + 20 reskinned pets bundle - 9000 crowns
I don't think that is how they will do this, but I do think that they will continue to roll out new individual pack pets for about the same price through the rest of the life of the game. I think they will all be 5 slots, with maybe a larger one tossed in for something special, possibly a Crown Crate radiant apex non-gem pet. While I don't think that every new pet will be a pack pet, I expect one anywhere from 4, to 6, to 12 times per year.
Conservatively speaking, if we get 5 new slots per quarter and the game can survive until Dec 31, 2025, that's 125 additional pack pet slots per character. At 15 characters per account, that is 1875 additional pack pet slots per account. For 1200 Crowns each, a mere 30,000 Crowns.
Then again, we may never see another one.
I agree, if ZO$ is indeed testing the waters with this then the only way to prevent the worst is to make some noise about it and let them know this is bad practice. People will hate the whiners now, but they will thank us in the future. Honestly, I would have no problems with this if they added a way to earn the pet + 5 extra slots with in-game currency like the housing chests.All over Tamriel, theres a sudden spike in Bosmers getting caught for their crimes. A sad day indeed... #FightForYourRite Give Bosmers back our stealth!2 -
Huyen✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, and I don't have ESO+A_Silverius wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »A_Silverius wrote: »
I can already see it in the crown store:
20 extra inventory slots + 4 reskinned pets bundle - 2500 crowns.
50 extra inventory slots + 10 reskinned pets bundle - 5000 crowns
100 extra inventory slots + 20 reskinned pets bundle - 9000 crowns
I don't think that is how they will do this, but I do think that they will continue to roll out new individual pack pets for about the same price through the rest of the life of the game. I think they will all be 5 slots, with maybe a larger one tossed in for something special, possibly a Crown Crate radiant apex non-gem pet. While I don't think that every new pet will be a pack pet, I expect one anywhere from 4, to 6, to 12 times per year.
Conservatively speaking, if we get 5 new slots per quarter and the game can survive until Dec 31, 2025, that's 125 additional pack pet slots per character. At 15 characters per account, that is 1875 additional pack pet slots per account. For 1200 Crowns each, a mere 30,000 Crowns.
Then again, we may never see another one.
I agree, if ZO$ is indeed testing the waters with this then the only way to prevent the worst is to make some noise about it and let them know this is bad practice. People will hate the whiners now, but they will thank us in the future. Honestly, I would have no problems with this if they added a way to earn the pet + 5 extra slots with in-game currency like the housing chests.
I would agree, but sadly alot of players are already buying the new pet. So the message most players are giving to ZoS is "we love the new idea, give us more!".Huyen Shadowpaw, dedicated nightblade tank - PS4 (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, nightblade dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Lightpaw, templar healer - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, necromancer dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, dragonknight (no defined role yet)
"Failure is only the opportunity to begin again. Only this time, more wisely" - Uncle Iroh6 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, and I have ESO+A_Silverius wrote: »Hippie4927 wrote: »Please explain how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W.
Few months down the line - "Please explain how 20 extra inventory slots is P2W"
One year later and 50+ pets x 5 slots - ???!!!
I mean, sure, how is an additional 250 slots pay to win? Doesn't increase DPS. Doesn't increase sustain or survivability.
People are confusing P2W and games that monetize intentionally annoying systems. For example, intentionally adding an absurd amount of mats and furnishings and having separate storage methods to push people to spend money to improve inventory management. Not P2W. It is a different kind of sketchy game design. The difference is that this doesn't change competitive balance.
For these kinds of changes, it all boils down to whether you think the grind in the game is worth it or if the cost of avoiding the grind is worth it. For P2W, you need to can overpower people by outspending them.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, and I have ESO+FinneganFroth wrote: »Pay for convenience and pay to win are not synonymous people...
I agree that people should not conflate the two, but "pay for convenience" is debatable characterization. The problem with calling it "convenience" is that developers now intentionally introduce poor gameplay design to push people to spend to avoid the annoying design. To be clear, I am am saying "poor gameplay design" and not "poor game design" because the gameplay is purposefully compromised for the sake of making the game more profitable. It may be a good design choice for the health of the game. I can't really judge that. But the "paying for convenience" here is in the same category as paying to remove ads or increase energy cap in free mobile games. It is removing intentional pain points.
Using the term "convenience" hides the fact that the frustrating parts of the game were often made that way by design.
My personal problem is that I still hate inventory management, even with ESO+. I want a large inventory pool where I can' easily store gear and test on different alts. I just don't have the patience to jump from character to character to get the gear I need for a particular alt. Playing different classes is so much fun in the game but I end up just shelving the game and not even completing the single player narrative, which I love, because I'm fed up with inventory management. Instead of finishing Murkmire (which has been great so far) and the content from this year (which I haven't started apart from finishing intro for one of my 3 necros), I'm playing RDR2 and binge-watching The Affair.A_Silverius wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »A_Silverius wrote: »
I can already see it in the crown store:
20 extra inventory slots + 4 reskinned pets bundle - 2500 crowns.
50 extra inventory slots + 10 reskinned pets bundle - 5000 crowns
100 extra inventory slots + 20 reskinned pets bundle - 9000 crowns
I don't think that is how they will do this, but I do think that they will continue to roll out new individual pack pets for about the same price through the rest of the life of the game. I think they will all be 5 slots, with maybe a larger one tossed in for something special, possibly a Crown Crate radiant apex non-gem pet. While I don't think that every new pet will be a pack pet, I expect one anywhere from 4, to 6, to 12 times per year.
Conservatively speaking, if we get 5 new slots per quarter and the game can survive until Dec 31, 2025, that's 125 additional pack pet slots per character. At 15 characters per account, that is 1875 additional pack pet slots per account. For 1200 Crowns each, a mere 30,000 Crowns.
Then again, we may never see another one.
I agree, if ZO$ is indeed testing the waters with this then the only way to prevent the worst is to make some noise about it and let them know this is bad practice. People will hate the whiners now, but they will thank us in the future. Honestly, I would have no problems with this if they added a way to earn the pet + 5 extra slots with in-game currency like the housing chests.
I would agree, but sadly alot of players are already buying the new pet. So the message most players are giving to ZoS is "we love the new idea, give us more!".
I had 29k crowns just sitting there until they add more character slots. I will buy all the inventory pets because I have nothing else to do with the mostly useless crowns they include in ESO+. I will never buy a crown crate though, even if they put exclusive inventory slots in there. But I will hold on to the crown gems I've earned from free crates in case one can be earned that way.Edited by DaveMoeDee on November 12, 2019 3:27PM0 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭No, and I have ESO+Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Sufficient amounts of Pay 2 Convenience become Pay 2 Win if given 2 players that start at the same time end up in total different places of progression and amount of characters for the same play time.
People who let themselves get fooled because "you dont need it to play the game" argument will further the drive to psychological trickery that makes people empty their bank accounts for less hassle.
Heard of fallout 76s outrage anyone? ESO Players would laugh hard.
"2 players that start at the same time end up in total different places of progression and amount of characters for the same play time."
This is the definition of Pay 2 Convenience. The objective in this game is not "Create the most characters" nor is it "Who can progress the fastest?". At no point will this ever give you an unfair advantage over other players. You can have a negative opinion of Paying for Convenience, but that doesn't make it Pay to Win.
And what about the difference between the highschool or college freshman who can play 8 hours a day, progressing faster than the 'steady job + overtime' guy who can play 8 hours a week? One of them is progressing faster than the other, is that also unfair? Is the one with lots of free time "winning" over the one without?
(at which point the guy with all the income can decide to spend a little $ in order to 'convenience' his 8 hours a week. Free time vs spending money, hmm that sounds familiar.)
Yeah, that's the argument, really. Even if two people have the same play time, it's likely that one will end up leveling their character quicker than the other.Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, and I have ESO+Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Sufficient amounts of Pay 2 Convenience become Pay 2 Win if given 2 players that start at the same time end up in total different places of progression and amount of characters for the same play time.
People who let themselves get fooled because "you dont need it to play the game" argument will further the drive to psychological trickery that makes people empty their bank accounts for less hassle.
Heard of fallout 76s outrage anyone? ESO Players would laugh hard.
"2 players that start at the same time end up in total different places of progression and amount of characters for the same play time."
This is the definition of Pay 2 Convenience. The objective in this game is not "Create the most characters" nor is it "Who can progress the fastest?". At no point will this ever give you an unfair advantage over other players. You can have a negative opinion of Paying for Convenience, but that doesn't make it Pay to Win.
And what about the difference between the highschool or college freshman who can play 8 hours a day, progressing faster than the 'steady job + overtime' guy who can play 8 hours a week? One of them is progressing faster than the other, is that also unfair? Is the one with lots of free time "winning" over the one without?
(at which point the guy with all the income can decide to spend a little $ in order to 'convenience' his 8 hours a week. Free time vs spending money, hmm that sounds familiar.)
Yeah, that's the argument, really. Even if two people have the same play time, it's likely that one will end up leveling their character quicker than the other.
But they end up at the same endpoint.0 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭No, and I have ESO+A_Silverius wrote: »A_Silverius wrote: »Hippie4927 wrote: »Please explain how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W.
Few months down the line - "Please explain how 20 extra inventory slots is P2W"
One year later and 50+ pets x 5 slots - ???!!!
A string of hypothetical situations is not an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W and is not particularly compelling.
You've sorely misunderstood my point. It wasn't an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W but how it could lead to a "hypothetical situation" where it could be considered p2w and neither was it* my aim to impress you or anyone.
I can already see it in the crown store:
20 extra inventory slots + 4 reskinned pets bundle - 2500 crowns.
50 extra inventory slots + 10 reskinned pets bundle - 5000 crowns
100 extra inventory slots + 20 reskinned pets bundle - 9000 crowns
Here's another hypothetical situation, maybe they won't even reskin pets but instead reuse the existing pets and stick a 5 extra inventory slots to each of them and sell them in the above mentioned hypothetical crown store bundles too.
But ofc this is all just hypothetical!
You've sorely misunderstood what the word 'compelling' means and putting quotes around the word hypothetical doesn't make it less hypothetical. Conjecture is not helpful to the discussion.
Even if what you've suggested is the case, it's not Pay to Win - it's still Pay to Convenience. Even if it were 1000 additional inventory slots, inventory provides no advantage over other players aside from convenience. That would imply that a banker or merchant is an unfair advantage. If that is what you believe, you may want to consider playing a game without a cash shop. You can call it greedy - I do. You may have a negative opinion of the crown store - a lot of people do. Neither of these opinions are relevant to the P2W discussion. It seems to me that this P2W accusation comes from people who have never played a game that is actually P2W and have no frame of reference. You can hypothesize all you want, but not one person has been able to provide anything demonstrable that would suggest that an additional Ballista or stack of trash potions in your inventory is going to provide the crux for victory in Cyrodil.Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"2 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, and I have ESO+Rave the Histborn wrote: »Franckystationb16_ESO wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »The boar is giftable that means that 360k gold is the regular price of the new pet. Don't tell me you are not capable of making 360k gold. Just by doing daily writts on all characters every day will grant you that in a week.
At the end of the day someone had to put money real life money into the store in order to sell those crowns or the pet as a gift for in-game gold
when a game offers you in store the most powerful weapon of a game or an armor or an instant exp we talk about P2W, there is the inventory, moreover in most MMO online slots inventory can be bought in store, there is no question of "P2W" review your definitions and the meaning of the sentences
Pay to win means paying for an advantage, not paying for a single player style weapon that one shots all enemies.
No.
Pay to win means pay to win.
Ok so define winning then big brain.0 -
FlipFlopFrog✭✭✭✭I really like the idea of Non-combat pets having an actual use besides looking cute. I'd be in favour of having pets affect your combat stats as long as the are other ways of acquiring them besides the crown store.PC EU0 -
JahneeO✭✭✭No, and I have ESO+Did we have this argument when the storage chests came out?
I cant remember.
I just thought people were happy with more storage options.1 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, and I have ESO+Rave the Histborn wrote: »Franckystationb16_ESO wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »The boar is giftable that means that 360k gold is the regular price of the new pet. Don't tell me you are not capable of making 360k gold. Just by doing daily writts on all characters every day will grant you that in a week.
At the end of the day someone had to put money real life money into the store in order to sell those crowns or the pet as a gift for in-game gold
when a game offers you in store the most powerful weapon of a game or an armor or an instant exp we talk about P2W, there is the inventory, moreover in most MMO online slots inventory can be bought in store, there is no question of "P2W" review your definitions and the meaning of the sentences
Pay to win means paying for an advantage, not paying for a single player style weapon that one shots all enemies.
Emm not exactly. P2W has meant that you could by something in the cash shop that would make your character stronger in combat than it could be with what is obtained in game. It would include a weapon that one shot enemies if nothing better was available in game.
In other words, this pet is not even close to P2W. If Zos sold a new tier of upgrade material past legendary (gold) that would be P2W. vMA weapons could be considered P2W if Zos did not grant total access to all DLCs during the free trials.
No pay to win is an advantage.A_Silverius wrote: »A_Silverius wrote: »Hippie4927 wrote: »Please explain how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W.
Few months down the line - "Please explain how 20 extra inventory slots is P2W"
One year later and 50+ pets x 5 slots - ???!!!
A string of hypothetical situations is not an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W and is not particularly compelling.
You've sorely misunderstood my point. It wasn't an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W but how it could lead to a "hypothetical situation" where it could be considered p2w and neither was it* my aim to impress you or anyone.
I can already see it in the crown store:
20 extra inventory slots + 4 reskinned pets bundle - 2500 crowns.
50 extra inventory slots + 10 reskinned pets bundle - 5000 crowns
100 extra inventory slots + 20 reskinned pets bundle - 9000 crowns
Here's another hypothetical situation, maybe they won't even reskin pets but instead reuse the existing pets and stick a 5 extra inventory slots to each of them and sell them in the above mentioned hypothetical crown store bundles too.
But ofc this is all just hypothetical!
You've sorely misunderstood what the word 'compelling' means and putting quotes around the word hypothetical doesn't make it less hypothetical. Conjecture is not helpful to the discussion.
Even if what you've suggested is the case, it's not Pay to Win - it's still Pay to Convenience. Even if it were 1000 additional inventory slots, inventory provides no advantage over other players aside from convenience. That would imply that a banker or merchant is an unfair advantage. If that is what you believe, you may want to consider playing a game without a cash shop. You can call it greedy - I do. You may have a negative opinion of the crown store - a lot of people do. Neither of these opinions are relevant to the P2W discussion. It seems to me that this P2W accusation comes from people who have never played a game that is actually P2W and have no frame of reference. You can hypothesize all you want, but not one person has been able to provide anything demonstrable that would suggest that an additional Ballista or stack of trash potions in your inventory is going to provide the crux for victory in Cyrodil.
it's not Pay to Win - it's still Pay to Convenience.
Have you ever actually played a pay to win game? That is the whole point of pay to win.
Even if it were 1000 additional inventory slots, inventory provides no advantage over other players aside from convenience.
Except for the additional 1000 inventory slots which are pay to win as you are PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE NON PAYING PLAYERS ARE ABLE TO GET. This is an advantage over other players, if you can keep going through dungeons without ever having to sell/decon compared to a player with 200 inventory slots. 5x your inventory space is a giant advantage because it means more time spent playing vs managing inventory.
You can hypothesize all you want, but not one person has been able to provide anything demonstrable that would suggest that an additional Ballista or stack of trash potions in your inventory is going to provide the crux for victory in Cyrodil.
So if we take your hypothetical situation and say we have a pug of 20 players that have paid to have 1000 inventory slots vs 20 pug players with 200 inventory slots. Now PVP siege generally doesn't stack so who do you think is going to have a greater advantage in Cyrodiil. The players with enough slots to hold unlimited pvp plus additional resources and armor sets so they never have to access a merchant or the other group with the standard inventory space? Hmmm seems like something like that could be the crux for victory in Cyrodiil.Edited by Rave the Histborn on November 12, 2019 4:54PM1 -
Rain_Greyraven✭✭✭✭✭It's like the collective forums IQ is dropping hourly.
Yes...yes it's P2W, so is logging in adjusting your graphic settings and using a mouse and keyboard.
No way in hell will we make it as a species, by 2035 it will all be wrapped up,"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
― Robert E. Howard
So you want to be a game developer? Here is the best way to go about it.1 -
SydneyGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, and I have ESO+What exactly do you "win," and does it help me become a successful millionaire in real life? 'Cause if so, then I'm buying that pig.1 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, and I don't have ESO+Convenience War Pigs have the power,
Hand of ZOS has struck the hour
Day of judgement, Bag space calling
On their knees the war pigs crawling, (from 5 items)
Begging mercies for your inventories,
ZOS, laughing, collects your crowns.
Fear is the Mindkiller1 -
Acharnor✭✭✭✭IDK/Prefer not to answerI don't think it is pay to win in and of itself but is the at precipice of a very slippery slope.Celebrate for life is short but sweet for certain.2 -
lagrue✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, and I have ESO+leepalmer95 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
Its not p2w, but its stlll scummy af.
Nice to know that pets are no longer just cosmetics.
Next you'll see a mount that gives an extra 10% movement speed.
Technically speaking the pet is still just a cosmetic. It just happens to come with an account wide upgrade that adds slots to all your characters (Whether or not you choose to use the mount.
Also potentially 90 slots folk, not just 5. (It's 5 per character on your account.)PSN ID (NA only): Zuzu_With_a_Z
*GRAND MASTER CRAFTER*
"You must defeat me every time. I need defeat you only once"0 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, and I have ESO+He is stacking sooo much spell damage, he is running a 5 inventory slot build bro.....2 -
drwoody44b14_ESO✭✭✭Every p2w game and/or game company. Every. Single. One. They all started stuff like this.
Time savers like insta skill lines? Inventory? This is just a start. Those of us old and smart enough have seen it enough times already.
They start out with minor stuff which that doesnt seem to bad. Fabois defend it to the death. Slowly, over time. Sales are great. More and more gets added. Next thing you know, they're selling crown crates with VMA weapons inside them.......but oh wait, the chance is so low though. Fanbois will defend it for that reason.
Want a prime example of this? Black Desert Online. Rift. Archage. We have sub games like WoW and FFXIV, both sub based games, adding MTX like leveling boosts. Wow adds mounts to their store which look amazing, while reskinning the same horse 8 times for an in game reward. The level boost by-passes the beginning gearing up process by giving you a full set of gear. FFXIVs only way to attain a 2 seat mount is from MTX. They also sell major crafting and economy advantages with the additional retainers (they store and sell you items, as well as go on missions for rare mats. They are the bank). Again, both sub based games.
Want an even better example? Fallout 76.....which, guess what? Is owned by the same parent company. Guess what they used to say?
And there are actually people that defend the Fallout 76 BS. So its no surprise that fanbois will defend this as well.
People defending this are the reason we have companies like EA and Activision.....who started exactly like this.
And for those saying its just convenience. Convenience equals time. Time is needed for productivity. Productivity creates power.Edited by drwoody44b14_ESO on November 12, 2019 6:02PM1 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭No, and I have ESO+Rave the Histborn wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »Franckystationb16_ESO wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »The boar is giftable that means that 360k gold is the regular price of the new pet. Don't tell me you are not capable of making 360k gold. Just by doing daily writts on all characters every day will grant you that in a week.
At the end of the day someone had to put money real life money into the store in order to sell those crowns or the pet as a gift for in-game gold
when a game offers you in store the most powerful weapon of a game or an armor or an instant exp we talk about P2W, there is the inventory, moreover in most MMO online slots inventory can be bought in store, there is no question of "P2W" review your definitions and the meaning of the sentences
Pay to win means paying for an advantage, not paying for a single player style weapon that one shots all enemies.
Emm not exactly. P2W has meant that you could by something in the cash shop that would make your character stronger in combat than it could be with what is obtained in game. It would include a weapon that one shot enemies if nothing better was available in game.
In other words, this pet is not even close to P2W. If Zos sold a new tier of upgrade material past legendary (gold) that would be P2W. vMA weapons could be considered P2W if Zos did not grant total access to all DLCs during the free trials.
No pay to win is an advantage.A_Silverius wrote: »A_Silverius wrote: »Hippie4927 wrote: »Please explain how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W.
Few months down the line - "Please explain how 20 extra inventory slots is P2W"
One year later and 50+ pets x 5 slots - ???!!!
A string of hypothetical situations is not an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W and is not particularly compelling.
You've sorely misunderstood my point. It wasn't an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W but how it could lead to a "hypothetical situation" where it could be considered p2w and neither was it* my aim to impress you or anyone.
I can already see it in the crown store:
20 extra inventory slots + 4 reskinned pets bundle - 2500 crowns.
50 extra inventory slots + 10 reskinned pets bundle - 5000 crowns
100 extra inventory slots + 20 reskinned pets bundle - 9000 crowns
Here's another hypothetical situation, maybe they won't even reskin pets but instead reuse the existing pets and stick a 5 extra inventory slots to each of them and sell them in the above mentioned hypothetical crown store bundles too.
But ofc this is all just hypothetical!
You've sorely misunderstood what the word 'compelling' means and putting quotes around the word hypothetical doesn't make it less hypothetical. Conjecture is not helpful to the discussion.
Even if what you've suggested is the case, it's not Pay to Win - it's still Pay to Convenience. Even if it were 1000 additional inventory slots, inventory provides no advantage over other players aside from convenience. That would imply that a banker or merchant is an unfair advantage. If that is what you believe, you may want to consider playing a game without a cash shop. You can call it greedy - I do. You may have a negative opinion of the crown store - a lot of people do. Neither of these opinions are relevant to the P2W discussion. It seems to me that this P2W accusation comes from people who have never played a game that is actually P2W and have no frame of reference. You can hypothesize all you want, but not one person has been able to provide anything demonstrable that would suggest that an additional Ballista or stack of trash potions in your inventory is going to provide the crux for victory in Cyrodil.
it's not Pay to Win - it's still Pay to Convenience.
Have you ever actually played a pay to win game? That is the whole point of pay to win.
Even if it were 1000 additional inventory slots, inventory provides no advantage over other players aside from convenience.
Except for the additional 1000 inventory slots which are pay to win as you are PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE NON PAYING PLAYERS ARE ABLE TO GET. This is an advantage over other players, if you can keep going through dungeons without ever having to sell/decon compared to a player with 200 inventory slots. 5x your inventory space is a giant advantage because it means more time spent playing vs managing inventory.
You can hypothesize all you want, but not one person has been able to provide anything demonstrable that would suggest that an additional Ballista or stack of trash potions in your inventory is going to provide the crux for victory in Cyrodil.
So if we take your hypothetical situation and say we have a pug of 20 players that have paid to have 1000 inventory slots vs 20 pug players with 200 inventory slots. Now PVP siege generally doesn't stack so who do you think is going to have a greater advantage in Cyrodiil. The players with enough slots to hold unlimited pvp plus additional resources and armor sets so they never have to access a merchant or the other group with the standard inventory space? Hmmm seems like something like that could be the crux for victory in Cyrodiil.
If you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the words 'advantage' or 'demonstrable' mean this makes sense. It's pretty impressive how many amazing players come out of the woodwork whose PvP losses are so marginal that they could be attributed to the other teams acquisition of 5 additional inventory slots. It's almost as if buying a non-combat pet has turned the average player into a living god.
"Except for the additional 1000 inventory slots which are pay to win as you are PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE NON PAYING PLAYERS ARE ABLE TO GET. This is an advantage over other players, if you can keep going through dungeons without ever having to sell/decon compared to a player with 200 inventory slots. 5x your inventory space is a giant advantage because it means more time spent playing vs managing inventory."
Except 1000 inventory slots is obvious hyperbole and you just spent however long attempting to refute a blatant exaggeration. As previously stated in the post that you copied but failed to actually read, *that would imply that a banker or merchant is an unfair advantage. If that is what you believe, you may want to consider playing a game without a cash shop.*
Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"0 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, and I have ESO+Rave the Histborn wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »Franckystationb16_ESO wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »The boar is giftable that means that 360k gold is the regular price of the new pet. Don't tell me you are not capable of making 360k gold. Just by doing daily writts on all characters every day will grant you that in a week.
At the end of the day someone had to put money real life money into the store in order to sell those crowns or the pet as a gift for in-game gold
when a game offers you in store the most powerful weapon of a game or an armor or an instant exp we talk about P2W, there is the inventory, moreover in most MMO online slots inventory can be bought in store, there is no question of "P2W" review your definitions and the meaning of the sentences
Pay to win means paying for an advantage, not paying for a single player style weapon that one shots all enemies.
Emm not exactly. P2W has meant that you could by something in the cash shop that would make your character stronger in combat than it could be with what is obtained in game. It would include a weapon that one shot enemies if nothing better was available in game.
In other words, this pet is not even close to P2W. If Zos sold a new tier of upgrade material past legendary (gold) that would be P2W. vMA weapons could be considered P2W if Zos did not grant total access to all DLCs during the free trials.
No pay to win is an advantage.A_Silverius wrote: »A_Silverius wrote: »Hippie4927 wrote: »Please explain how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W.
Few months down the line - "Please explain how 20 extra inventory slots is P2W"
One year later and 50+ pets x 5 slots - ???!!!
A string of hypothetical situations is not an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W and is not particularly compelling.
You've sorely misunderstood my point. It wasn't an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W but how it could lead to a "hypothetical situation" where it could be considered p2w and neither was it* my aim to impress you or anyone.
I can already see it in the crown store:
20 extra inventory slots + 4 reskinned pets bundle - 2500 crowns.
50 extra inventory slots + 10 reskinned pets bundle - 5000 crowns
100 extra inventory slots + 20 reskinned pets bundle - 9000 crowns
Here's another hypothetical situation, maybe they won't even reskin pets but instead reuse the existing pets and stick a 5 extra inventory slots to each of them and sell them in the above mentioned hypothetical crown store bundles too.
But ofc this is all just hypothetical!
You've sorely misunderstood what the word 'compelling' means and putting quotes around the word hypothetical doesn't make it less hypothetical. Conjecture is not helpful to the discussion.
Even if what you've suggested is the case, it's not Pay to Win - it's still Pay to Convenience. Even if it were 1000 additional inventory slots, inventory provides no advantage over other players aside from convenience. That would imply that a banker or merchant is an unfair advantage. If that is what you believe, you may want to consider playing a game without a cash shop. You can call it greedy - I do. You may have a negative opinion of the crown store - a lot of people do. Neither of these opinions are relevant to the P2W discussion. It seems to me that this P2W accusation comes from people who have never played a game that is actually P2W and have no frame of reference. You can hypothesize all you want, but not one person has been able to provide anything demonstrable that would suggest that an additional Ballista or stack of trash potions in your inventory is going to provide the crux for victory in Cyrodil.
it's not Pay to Win - it's still Pay to Convenience.
Have you ever actually played a pay to win game? That is the whole point of pay to win.
Even if it were 1000 additional inventory slots, inventory provides no advantage over other players aside from convenience.
Except for the additional 1000 inventory slots which are pay to win as you are PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE NON PAYING PLAYERS ARE ABLE TO GET. This is an advantage over other players, if you can keep going through dungeons without ever having to sell/decon compared to a player with 200 inventory slots. 5x your inventory space is a giant advantage because it means more time spent playing vs managing inventory.
You can hypothesize all you want, but not one person has been able to provide anything demonstrable that would suggest that an additional Ballista or stack of trash potions in your inventory is going to provide the crux for victory in Cyrodil.
So if we take your hypothetical situation and say we have a pug of 20 players that have paid to have 1000 inventory slots vs 20 pug players with 200 inventory slots. Now PVP siege generally doesn't stack so who do you think is going to have a greater advantage in Cyrodiil. The players with enough slots to hold unlimited pvp plus additional resources and armor sets so they never have to access a merchant or the other group with the standard inventory space? Hmmm seems like something like that could be the crux for victory in Cyrodiil.
If you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the words 'advantage' or 'demonstrable' mean this makes sense. It's pretty impressive how many amazing players come out of the woodwork whose PvP losses are so marginal that they could be attributed to the other teams acquisition of 5 additional inventory slots. It's almost as if buying a non-combat pet has turned the average player into a living god.
"Except for the additional 1000 inventory slots which are pay to win as you are PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE NON PAYING PLAYERS ARE ABLE TO GET. This is an advantage over other players, if you can keep going through dungeons without ever having to sell/decon compared to a player with 200 inventory slots. 5x your inventory space is a giant advantage because it means more time spent playing vs managing inventory."
Except 1000 inventory slots is obvious hyperbole and you just spent however long attempting to refute a blatant exaggeration. As previously stated in the post that you copied but failed to actually read, *that would imply that a banker or merchant is an unfair advantage. If that is what you believe, you may want to consider playing a game without a cash shop.*
Winning refers to combat capability.....how does 5 extra inventory slots make you better at combat?0 -
drwoody44b14_ESO✭✭✭
Winning refers to combat capability.....how does 5 extra inventory slots make you better at combat?
Time
Convenience reduces time spent
Time creates productivity and progression
The result of productivity and progression is power.Edited by drwoody44b14_ESO on November 12, 2019 7:55PM0 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, and I have ESO+Rave the Histborn wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »Franckystationb16_ESO wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »The boar is giftable that means that 360k gold is the regular price of the new pet. Don't tell me you are not capable of making 360k gold. Just by doing daily writts on all characters every day will grant you that in a week.
At the end of the day someone had to put money real life money into the store in order to sell those crowns or the pet as a gift for in-game gold
when a game offers you in store the most powerful weapon of a game or an armor or an instant exp we talk about P2W, there is the inventory, moreover in most MMO online slots inventory can be bought in store, there is no question of "P2W" review your definitions and the meaning of the sentences
Pay to win means paying for an advantage, not paying for a single player style weapon that one shots all enemies.
Emm not exactly. P2W has meant that you could by something in the cash shop that would make your character stronger in combat than it could be with what is obtained in game. It would include a weapon that one shot enemies if nothing better was available in game.
In other words, this pet is not even close to P2W. If Zos sold a new tier of upgrade material past legendary (gold) that would be P2W. vMA weapons could be considered P2W if Zos did not grant total access to all DLCs during the free trials.
No pay to win is an advantage.A_Silverius wrote: »A_Silverius wrote: »Hippie4927 wrote: »Please explain how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W.
Few months down the line - "Please explain how 20 extra inventory slots is P2W"
One year later and 50+ pets x 5 slots - ???!!!
A string of hypothetical situations is not an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W and is not particularly compelling.
You've sorely misunderstood my point. It wasn't an explanation for how 5 extra inventory slots is P2W but how it could lead to a "hypothetical situation" where it could be considered p2w and neither was it* my aim to impress you or anyone.
I can already see it in the crown store:
20 extra inventory slots + 4 reskinned pets bundle - 2500 crowns.
50 extra inventory slots + 10 reskinned pets bundle - 5000 crowns
100 extra inventory slots + 20 reskinned pets bundle - 9000 crowns
Here's another hypothetical situation, maybe they won't even reskin pets but instead reuse the existing pets and stick a 5 extra inventory slots to each of them and sell them in the above mentioned hypothetical crown store bundles too.
But ofc this is all just hypothetical!
You've sorely misunderstood what the word 'compelling' means and putting quotes around the word hypothetical doesn't make it less hypothetical. Conjecture is not helpful to the discussion.
Even if what you've suggested is the case, it's not Pay to Win - it's still Pay to Convenience. Even if it were 1000 additional inventory slots, inventory provides no advantage over other players aside from convenience. That would imply that a banker or merchant is an unfair advantage. If that is what you believe, you may want to consider playing a game without a cash shop. You can call it greedy - I do. You may have a negative opinion of the crown store - a lot of people do. Neither of these opinions are relevant to the P2W discussion. It seems to me that this P2W accusation comes from people who have never played a game that is actually P2W and have no frame of reference. You can hypothesize all you want, but not one person has been able to provide anything demonstrable that would suggest that an additional Ballista or stack of trash potions in your inventory is going to provide the crux for victory in Cyrodil.
it's not Pay to Win - it's still Pay to Convenience.
Have you ever actually played a pay to win game? That is the whole point of pay to win.
Even if it were 1000 additional inventory slots, inventory provides no advantage over other players aside from convenience.
Except for the additional 1000 inventory slots which are pay to win as you are PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE NON PAYING PLAYERS ARE ABLE TO GET. This is an advantage over other players, if you can keep going through dungeons without ever having to sell/decon compared to a player with 200 inventory slots. 5x your inventory space is a giant advantage because it means more time spent playing vs managing inventory.
You can hypothesize all you want, but not one person has been able to provide anything demonstrable that would suggest that an additional Ballista or stack of trash potions in your inventory is going to provide the crux for victory in Cyrodil.
So if we take your hypothetical situation and say we have a pug of 20 players that have paid to have 1000 inventory slots vs 20 pug players with 200 inventory slots. Now PVP siege generally doesn't stack so who do you think is going to have a greater advantage in Cyrodiil. The players with enough slots to hold unlimited pvp plus additional resources and armor sets so they never have to access a merchant or the other group with the standard inventory space? Hmmm seems like something like that could be the crux for victory in Cyrodiil.
If you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the words 'advantage' or 'demonstrable' mean this makes sense. It's pretty impressive how many amazing players come out of the woodwork whose PvP losses are so marginal that they could be attributed to the other teams acquisition of 5 additional inventory slots. It's almost as if buying a non-combat pet has turned the average player into a living god.
"Except for the additional 1000 inventory slots which are pay to win as you are PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE NON PAYING PLAYERS ARE ABLE TO GET. This is an advantage over other players, if you can keep going through dungeons without ever having to sell/decon compared to a player with 200 inventory slots. 5x your inventory space is a giant advantage because it means more time spent playing vs managing inventory."
Except 1000 inventory slots is obvious hyperbole and you just spent however long attempting to refute a blatant exaggeration. As previously stated in the post that you copied but failed to actually read, *that would imply that a banker or merchant is an unfair advantage. If that is what you believe, you may want to consider playing a game without a cash shop.*
5 additional inventory slots that you pay to get and have no way of earning in game is pay to win, it is a paid advantage over other players. An advantage doesn't mean one player is a god and the other player isn't, if we ran a race and I paid for running shoes and you went barefoot then that is a paid advantage.
"Except 1000 inventory slots is obvious hyperbole and you just spent however long attempting to refute a blatant exaggeration. "
Obviously it's hyperbole, I don't think you get that your own argument is a case against your point. What's the difference between 5 inventory slots extra or 500 extra or 5000 extra? It's still a paid advantage no matter how you spin it.
"As previously stated in the post that you copied but failed to actually read, *that would imply that a banker or merchant is an unfair advantage. If that is what you believe, you may want to consider playing a game without a cash shop.*"
Obviously it's pay to win XD, why do you think it's disabled in PVP? That's a competitive environment and if you were in a situation where you run out of siege how is it a fair advantage to just pull up the banker and take out some siege vs a player that can't buy the banker that has to go out of the way to find an available siege merchant. Also the banker has 480 slots with ESO+ if you include that with a characters max inventory of 205 now that is 685 slots total.
I'm not opposed to the cash shop, I've said it before, spend your money how you want if you can but be willing to call it what it is.
Edit: Why do I bother posting here if the mods like @ZOS_AntonioP is going to edit my points and just call them bait. No wonder the forums are filled with people that hate you.
[Edit to remove bait]Edited by Rave the Histborn on November 13, 2019 7:18AM3 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, and I don't have ESO+@Rave the Histborn I disagree about PvP:
Merchant and banker becoming LOS obstacles is probably more reasonable for not being in PvP. Siege can't stack in PvP, but there are limits to its effectiveness. You come across merchants for siege often enough (unless you purposely avoid the objectives) that a player with 200 siege has no advantage over another with 25 siege other than convenience.
Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
PrayingSeraph✭✭✭✭✭No, and I have ESO+The idea that this is P2W is utter nonsense. I'd just be repeating wgat others said, but this ZOS hate crusade is hurting their credibility whining about this pet.1 -
pelle412✭✭✭✭✭No, and I have ESO+I paid for this game with real money. Someone else did not buy the game so I already won over them. Pay 2 win technically. I can spend a lot to buy the fanciest houses and furniture and win guild housing competitions. Totally pay 2 win.
As for combat? There's nothing I can buy you can't get with a medium amount of effort that would let me win anything.1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQUXuQ6Zd9w