Bristleneck War Boar (waitasecond... WHAT!?)

starkerealm

So, without further info on this, I've got reservations about this.

This is on the PTS:



On the surface I'm fine with this little critter, except, this one actually increases your inventory, permanently.



So, that's a character with a max inventory capacity of 205.

This is not okay. Maybe if it's going to be available in game, somehow, and then also as a crown buy around. But, I seriously hope this thing shows up somewhere else in the game and isn't a crown store exclusive, or that's going to be paying for advantages, not just convenience.

Nirntrotter

What an odd mechanic to increase every character's inventory space simply by purchasing the pet. Doesn't sit right with me either. They might be testing the waters here.

VaranisArano

Yeah...either the pet or a inventory increase to 205 needs to be available for everyone for in game methods. And Crown Store Gifts for Gold doesn't count as an in game method.

xaraan

Yeah, if this isn't going to be available to earn in game, it definitely crosses the P2W line for me by only selling a character upgrade you cannot get outside of crown store.

Nordic__Knights

Pay to win already see skills was the teast now everything going to be in cs funny how it was never on live stream of notes lol skipped right on pass airing the pay to win items lol

Erraln

I mean, when they wanted to sell 150% exp scrolls on the crown store they managed to tack on a suitably impossible game mechanic to create on-par consumables, right?

I'm sure there will be *some* way cooked up to receive that inventory bonus through purely-ingame methods, in order to dampen pay-to-win complaints. Just don't expect it to be reasonable.

Nirntrotter

xaraan wrote: »

Yeah, if this isn't going to be available to earn in game, it definitely crosses the P2W line for me by only selling a character upgrade you cannot get outside of crown store.

Inb4 people come to argue that 5 sLoTs isN't a BiG dEaL lol. This is probably just the beginning.

Tommy_The_Gun

So a non combat pet that gives 5 inventory slot is not ok, but ESO+ benefits are ok...

starkerealm

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Pay to win already see skills was the teast now everything going to be in cs funny how it was never on live stream of notes lol skipped right on pass airing the pay to win items lol

It's not in the PTS notes. I checked.

dcam86b14_ESO

It's cool not a big deal.

xaraan

ethuiliel wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Yeah, if this isn't going to be available to earn in game, it definitely crosses the P2W line for me by only selling a character upgrade you cannot get outside of crown store.

Inb4 people come to argue that 5 sLoTs isN't a BiG dEaL lol. This is probably just the beginning.

We are way past the beginning IMO. They've danced on the line for a bit, this is clear cross the line and inching slowly forward.

Some won't care b/c they will buy it anyway. Some won't b/c it's not combat related. Some won't b/c it's only five.

But in the end, it is a character upgrade that you can only buy in the crown store (until we get more info on it).

ZarkingFrued

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

So a non combat pet that gives 5 inventory slot is not ok, but ESO+ benefits are ok...

Finally someone said it lol

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

How is 5 inventory space p2w lol... you realise that subbing to the game gives you an unlimited inventory for crafting mats. I guess thats P2W now too

starkerealm

Erraln wrote: »

I mean, when they wanted to sell 150% exp scrolls on the crown store they managed to tack on a suitably impossible game mechanic to create on-par consumables, right?

I'm sure there will be *some* way cooked up to receive that inventory bonus through purely-ingame methods, in order to dampen pay-to-win complaints. Just don't expect it to be reasonable.

XP accelerators are a different issue entirely. Back when there was no cap on CP spending, it was P2W, but the introduction of the CP spending cap changed things a bit. Now you're just racing to the finish line faster, you don't end up more powerful than a player who doesn't use accelerators.

This? You can't "catch up" with this. It pushes your inventory beyond the limits of what you can get without it.

Erraln

starkerealm wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

I mean, when they wanted to sell 150% exp scrolls on the crown store they managed to tack on a suitably impossible game mechanic to create on-par consumables, right?

I'm sure there will be *some* way cooked up to receive that inventory bonus through purely-ingame methods, in order to dampen pay-to-win complaints. Just don't expect it to be reasonable.

XP accelerators are a different issue entirely. Back when there was no cap on CP spending, it was P2W, but the introduction of the CP spending cap changed things a bit. Now you're just racing to the finish line faster, you don't end up more powerful than a player who doesn't use accelerators.

This? You can't "catch up" with this. It pushes your inventory beyond the limits of what you can get without it.

That wasn't what I was referring to. When 100/ 150% exp Crown and game-based consumables were added to the game, the crown options were introduced on PTS first, with no mention of alternatives, and the crafting options were then explained (or hastily invented) afterwards. I'm guessing that something similar may be happening here. I may be wrong.

xaraan

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

How is 5 inventory space p2w lol... you realise that subbing to the game gives you an unlimited inventory for crafting mats. I guess thats P2W now too

Any character upgrades you can buy in the crown store that you cannot get in game are P2W imo.

starkerealm

Erraln wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

I mean, when they wanted to sell 150% exp scrolls on the crown store they managed to tack on a suitably impossible game mechanic to create on-par consumables, right?

I'm sure there will be *some* way cooked up to receive that inventory bonus through purely-ingame methods, in order to dampen pay-to-win complaints. Just don't expect it to be reasonable.

XP accelerators are a different issue entirely. Back when there was no cap on CP spending, it was P2W, but the introduction of the CP spending cap changed things a bit. Now you're just racing to the finish line faster, you don't end up more powerful than a player who doesn't use accelerators.

This? You can't "catch up" with this. It pushes your inventory beyond the limits of what you can get without it.

That wasn't what I was referring to. When 100/ 150% exp Crown and game-based consumables were added to the game, the crown options were introduced on PTS first, with no mention of alternatives, and the crafting options were then explained (or hastily invented) afterwards. I'm guessing that something similar may be happening here. I may be wrong.

It's possible. Though, IIRC, initially, only the 50% XP scrolls were added originally, and then after player feedback was unfavorable, the free version was offered.

As an account wide unlock, I wouldn't be too worried if this existed, even if it was annoying to complete. However, as a store only unlock? Yeah, that's a bit different.

James-Wayne

They mentioned on ESO Live that you can do a quest and earn this in game.

xaraan

Erraln wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

I mean, when they wanted to sell 150% exp scrolls on the crown store they managed to tack on a suitably impossible game mechanic to create on-par consumables, right?

I'm sure there will be *some* way cooked up to receive that inventory bonus through purely-ingame methods, in order to dampen pay-to-win complaints. Just don't expect it to be reasonable.

XP accelerators are a different issue entirely. Back when there was no cap on CP spending, it was P2W, but the introduction of the CP spending cap changed things a bit. Now you're just racing to the finish line faster, you don't end up more powerful than a player who doesn't use accelerators.

This? You can't "catch up" with this. It pushes your inventory beyond the limits of what you can get without it.

That wasn't what I was referring to. When 100/ 150% exp Crown and game-based consumables were added to the game, the crown options were introduced on PTS first, with no mention of alternatives, and the crafting options were then explained (or hastily invented) afterwards. I'm guessing that something similar may be happening here. I may be wrong.

Yes. They had a similar overreach in crown store with motifs. The sea elf motif would only be available in crown crates, but they quickly changed it to drop in zone. BUT, since then, they have instead been labeling motifs you can only buy in the crown store or crates as outfit styles and suddenly no one has noticed. (also of note: crown motifs didn't count toward your 'known' motifs on crafting drop rate rewards anyway, so the name change was about getting around the attention, not about balance.)

Nordic__Knights

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

So a non combat pet that gives 5 inventory slot is not ok, but ESO+ benefits are ok...

I've been saying that ESO Plus in pay-to-win to begin with this just leaves it up to what else can exploit from you I'm glad I'm leaving the game

starkerealm

James-Wayne wrote: »

They mentioned on ESO Live that you can do a quest and earn this in game.

Okay, I missed that entirely. Thanks for that clarification.

EDIT: Slightly worrying, it's not in the collections menu.

Nordic__Knights

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

How is 5 inventory space p2w lol... you realise that subbing to the game gives you an unlimited inventory for crafting mats. I guess thats P2W now too

Always has been

daemonios

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

So a non combat pet that gives 5 inventory slot is not ok, but ESO+ benefits are ok...

ESO+ is a fixed amount. Same amount every month. In-game purchases are a bottomless pit, especially when you factor consumables and purchases that affect only one character.

I do agree that ESO+ becoming optional did have negative consequences, as ZOS had to make it appealing. Hence the item creep aimed at making sure you're always in need of more bag/bank space. But Clown Store purchases are far worse in terms of affecting game design to drive sales.

Either people finally realise that a fixed monthly subscription is the only model that makes the developers focus on making a decent game, or we'll keep getting milked for every last penny - well, those of us who bother with Clown stuff, anyway - while the game becomes a simple storefront with minimal playability.

VaranisArano

daemonios wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

So a non combat pet that gives 5 inventory slot is not ok, but ESO+ benefits are ok...

ESO+ is a fixed amount. Same amount every month. In-game purchases are a bottomless pit, especially when you factor consumables and purchases that affect only one character.

I do agree that ESO+ becoming optional did have negative consequences, as ZOS had to make it appealing. Hence the item creep aimed at making sure you're always in need of more bag/bank space. But Clown Store purchases are far worse in terms of affecting game design to drive sales.

Either people finally realise that a fixed monthly subscription is the only model that makes the developers focus on making a decent game, or we'll keep getting milked for every last penny - well, those of us who bother with Clown stuff, anyway - while the game becomes a simple storefront with minimal playability.

One of the reasons they has to drop mandatory subscriptions was when they expanded to the console market. Strangely enough, players didnt fancy paying two subscriptions.

Red_Feather

I don't mind one bit. People who buy it are supporting the game and aren't negatively impacting my game...beyond that little cutey pig distracting me.

daemonios

VaranisArano wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

So a non combat pet that gives 5 inventory slot is not ok, but ESO+ benefits are ok...

ESO+ is a fixed amount. Same amount every month. In-game purchases are a bottomless pit, especially when you factor consumables and purchases that affect only one character.

I do agree that ESO+ becoming optional did have negative consequences, as ZOS had to make it appealing. Hence the item creep aimed at making sure you're always in need of more bag/bank space. But Clown Store purchases are far worse in terms of affecting game design to drive sales.

Either people finally realise that a fixed monthly subscription is the only model that makes the developers focus on making a decent game, or we'll keep getting milked for every last penny - well, those of us who bother with Clown stuff, anyway - while the game becomes a simple storefront with minimal playability.

One of the reasons they has to drop mandatory subscriptions was when they expanded to the console market. Strangely enough, players didnt fancy paying two subscriptions.

I don't really care about the whys, and they don't address the issues I raised.

Microtransactions are inherently deceptive, most times predatory, and always degrade game quality. This has been true for all games that dropped a subscription model in favour of a microtransactions-based one. In any case, note that Final Fantasy XIV requires a subscription even on console. That is the only case I know, but I don't play consoles so there might be other examples.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

xaraan wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

How is 5 inventory space p2w lol... you realise that subbing to the game gives you an unlimited inventory for crafting mats. I guess thats P2W now too

Any character upgrades you can buy in the crown store that you cannot get in game are P2W imo.

This is simply not true. firstly you can obtain them via ingame means - buy the crowns via gold.
Secondly to "win" they need to be a combat advantage above that of an ingame item. 5 inventory doesn't currently do damage or increase healing.

Nordic__Knights

😠😡😠😡😠😡

starkerealm

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

How is 5 inventory space p2w lol... you realise that subbing to the game gives you an unlimited inventory for crafting mats. I guess thats P2W now too

Any character upgrades you can buy in the crown store that you cannot get in game are P2W imo.

This is simply not true. firstly you can obtain them via ingame means - buy the crowns via gold.
Secondly to "win" they need to be a combat advantage above that of an ingame item. 5 inventory doesn't currently do damage or increase healing.

No, and no.

Even if you're not the one paying for it, someone else did, you just convinced someone else to pay for you to win.

Second, non-combat advantages can qualify as P2W. The issue is that "winning" is incredibly subjective. If someone is trying to cultivate the coolest look, and that's the goal they've set for themselves, that is their win condition. Now, that would create an argument that any cosmetic visual would be P2W, which isn't particularly compelling. However, when you're allowing a player to exceed a hard cap by spending money, that is a lot dodgier.

Additionally, I'm not saying this is P2W, just that it worries me. It is a dramatic shift in the nature of cosmetic pets in ESO. If the pet is earnable in game, then it's a wash. If it's not in fact, in game, then this is a very concerning direction for the Crown Store team to take the game.

DocFrost72

The real question is if the pet (earned or purchased) requires DLC. I fail to see the difference between paying a value in the store on a one time purchase, or paying 20$ on a dlc to get access to the "free" pet.

Nordic__Knights

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

How is 5 inventory space p2w lol... you realise that subbing to the game gives you an unlimited inventory for crafting mats. I guess thats P2W now too

Any character upgrades you can buy in the crown store that you cannot get in game are P2W imo.

This is simply not true. firstly you can obtain them via ingame means - buy the crowns via gold.
Secondly to "win" they need to be a combat advantage above that of an ingame item. 5 inventory doesn't currently do damage or increase healing.

Anything that gives you an advantage over others is pay to win or pay to play you can call it convenience all you like but for everyone without money to just throw into the game that's the pay part of it all its an limitation given to them solely because of the fact they don't have the money