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Guild dues just skyrocketed
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OsManiaC✭✭✭✭close the topic please we told this would happen months ago when they plan multibidding u23 and no one cared
I did not see support from casual traders instead they were supporting the multibidding idea. lol I even remember some say they will have traders everyweek and 10k empty slots will be increased
no edit: this post is not directly at op , I am laughing hard now people crying with pc eu all guilds require flat fees.
note: ı support the idea flat fees and increases of mins after u23GM of The Argonian Kebab, The Argonian Steak & The Argonian BBQ - PC - EU (The Tamriel Kitchen) @OsManiaC
Don't worry, the tail grows back!
if it breathes we eats. #justbosmerthings - we can detect stealth boy NPCs and hunt them thanks to our skill!
https://steamcommunity.com/id/osmaniac6 -
UrbanMonk✭✭✭✭✭
✭I used to be in big league traders guild with spots such as craglorn/ mournhold/ rawl on PC-EU and NA and was making a lot of sustained sails back in days, but these days i'm in 2 small PVE guilds who get a spot at not so Hot location but in distant single trader locations, and I still manage to make enough sales to keep me afloat for my requirements in game. And the plus side is now I get to enjoy the game and play, rather than busting my ass of to farm stuff to make min sales. And in these small guilds all I have to is donate 2k/ week which isn't hard even for a casual.
Ig a guild is charging 15k/week in Mandatory donations, that is close to 5mil+ gold considering abt 350 active members. They better have a Top Spot or it's pointless from perspective of people who are paying.
With the Tamriel Trade Center, I think it has become much easier to sell your stuff even at remotely located traders if you price your items genuinely.Urban.Monk
-Monk I- Magden- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
-Tsürügi- MagBlade- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
-Bantam Bomber- MagPlar- AVA28
-Hot Nöödle- MagDK - AVA37
-Pablo Necrobar- StamCro- AVA24
youtube.com/c/UrbanMonkGaming
Easiest mDK for vMA and vVH- https://youtu.be/dUxQO1FO1XQ
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Balance for the Sake of Balance is no Balance at all.4 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭360k week ? Wadda?
Top guilds like TTM Overflow and Harrods in Deshman charge around 60-70k.2 -
BansheeVT✭✭✭✭
Honestly says it all.Find a trading guild that works for you.
But I will add some more thoughts here: If you don't want to sell or pay x gold per week, then don't. But do GMs a favor and don't join a guild with high requirements then. If you don't plan to sell a lot, then you don't need a Belkarth, Vivec or Mournhold trader. If you do plan to sell a lot, then you should be able to reach those requirements.
GMs have a reason for their minimum sales requirements or fees. If you are not okay with that, then please don't be that guy, who joins the guild and then complains about it 24/7. Find a trading guild that works for you. There are enough guilds out there with different requirements
Many guilds increased their requirements with U23 and yes, some players are not happy with that, neither am I, but those guilds felt like it was necessary. Just search for a guild that fits you and your personal needs. @BansheeVT - GM of 'Valinor Traders'.
Valinor Trading Union:
Valinor Traders: Vivec, 500k sales, <500k sales = 25k fee, <250k sales = kick
Valinor Overflow: Vivec back row, 150k min sales OR 15k donation
Valinor Merchants: Elden Root, 50k sales OR 10k donation
Valinor Vendors: Wayrest, 25k sales OR 8k donation
Stendarr's Merchantry: Alinor, 10k sales OR 5k donation6 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guild dues are on the hands of guilds, not ZOS. When you say you don't blame the guilds, you are incorrect in that assumption. It is 100% up to the guild on how much to charge dues if any.
That's not entirely true. The trader system forces guilds to institute minimum sales requirements/dues.
Some guilds are better equipped than others at making bids. Some guilds will have GMs/key members who make tens of millions of gold weekly and can rely on their donations to make bids without a high sales requirement for the members. Other guilds might not have as many big ticket traders, which means they need to make their gold from taxes and donations/raffles/auctions, thus you'll see higher sales requirements/dues in those guilds.Edited by MLGProPlayer on October 15, 2019 7:14AM4 -
Darkenarlol✭✭✭✭✭
✭looks like that guild has a goal to become
a serious trade guild not a casual one
so now they have higher requirements
to get one of the best kiosks for serious traders
it is ZOS's fault ofc
they should ban GM and officers for such move lol1 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There are many ways to make gold in this game. A few require a good-location trading guild; many are helped by a good-location trading guild; some don't require a trading guild at all. If you don't enjoy trading guilds, hopefully you do enjoy one of the alternative approaches.
I'm in three high-quality trading guilds on PC/NA, one defunct guild whose bank I control, and another defunct guild in whose bank I store low value items. If I ever find an adventuring guild I want to join, I'll sacrifice some low-value items. If I find two or more, I'll have to take a bigger economic hit. But so be it. At this point I have a nice assortment of overland, crafted and monster set gear, a well-stocked crafting bag, a well-trained master crafter, some houses I like, and 25 million in gold. I don't really NEED more fictional wealth. 0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Guild dues are on the hands of guilds, not ZOS. When you say you don't blame the guilds, you are incorrect in that assumption. It is 100% up to the guild on how much to charge dues if any.
That's not entirely true. The trader system forces guilds to institute minimum sales requirements/dues.
Some guilds are better equipped than others at making bids. Some guilds will have GMs/key members who make tens of millions of gold weekly and can rely on their donations to make bids without a high sales requirement for the members. Other guilds might not have as many big ticket traders, which means they need to make their gold from taxes and donations/raffles/auctions, thus you'll see higher sales requirements/dues in those guilds.
That's not entirely true. The system does incentivize pooling resources, you can point the finger at ZOS for that. But, it doesn't force quotas or dues.
I'm sure a number of the people who institute quotas or dues gleefully point the finger at ZOS and say, "See, they're forcing us to do it," but it was, ultimately, their choice.5 -
OsManiaC✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Guild dues are on the hands of guilds, not ZOS. When you say you don't blame the guilds, you are incorrect in that assumption. It is 100% up to the guild on how much to charge dues if any.
That's not entirely true. The trader system forces guilds to institute minimum sales requirements/dues.
Some guilds are better equipped than others at making bids. Some guilds will have GMs/key members who make tens of millions of gold weekly and can rely on their donations to make bids without a high sales requirement for the members. Other guilds might not have as many big ticket traders, which means they need to make their gold from taxes and donations/raffles/auctions, thus you'll see higher sales requirements/dues in those guilds.
That's not entirely true. The system does incentivize pooling resources, you can point the finger at ZOS for that. But, it doesn't force quotas or dues.
I'm sure a number of the people who institute quotas or dues gleefully point the finger at ZOS and say, "See, they're forcing us to do it," but it was, ultimately, their choice.
you are right, for example, after u23 mournhold guild X has three choices
- a) stay its spot as where it has been for years - inevitable choice here it needs to increase bids
- b) go elsewhere, nothing changed on reqs
- c) get rid of guild
assuming we got scenario a) then gm has two options
- a1) increase reqs
- a2) find gold elsewhere
my logic would go for a1. yes thats a choice
GM of The Argonian Kebab, The Argonian Steak & The Argonian BBQ - PC - EU (The Tamriel Kitchen) @OsManiaC
Don't worry, the tail grows back!
if it breathes we eats. #justbosmerthings - we can detect stealth boy NPCs and hunt them thanks to our skill!
https://steamcommunity.com/id/osmaniac6 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Guild dues are on the hands of guilds, not ZOS. When you say you don't blame the guilds, you are incorrect in that assumption. It is 100% up to the guild on how much to charge dues if any.
That's not entirely true. The trader system forces guilds to institute minimum sales requirements/dues.
Some guilds are better equipped than others at making bids. Some guilds will have GMs/key members who make tens of millions of gold weekly and can rely on their donations to make bids without a high sales requirement for the members. Other guilds might not have as many big ticket traders, which means they need to make their gold from taxes and donations/raffles/auctions, thus you'll see higher sales requirements/dues in those guilds.
That's not entirely true. The system does incentivize pooling resources, you can point the finger at ZOS for that. But, it doesn't force quotas or dues.
I'm sure a number of the people who institute quotas or dues gleefully point the finger at ZOS and say, "See, they're forcing us to do it," but it was, ultimately, their choice.
you are right, for example, after u23 mournhold guild X has three choices
- a) stay its spot as where it has been for years - inevitable choice here it needs to increase bids
- b) go elsewhere, nothing changed on reqs
- c) get rid of guild
assuming we got scenario a) then gm has two options
- a1) increase reqs
- a2) find gold elsewhere
my logic would go for a1. yes thats a choice
A, B, and C, all ignore one, critical, piece of information about the U23 changes: bid placed on traders you do not win, are refunded.
This means, that while the U23 changes did push guilds to having a bit more cash on hand, it was a one time expense. As, an unsuccessful bids are "free."4 -
OsManiaC✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Guild dues are on the hands of guilds, not ZOS. When you say you don't blame the guilds, you are incorrect in that assumption. It is 100% up to the guild on how much to charge dues if any.
That's not entirely true. The trader system forces guilds to institute minimum sales requirements/dues.
Some guilds are better equipped than others at making bids. Some guilds will have GMs/key members who make tens of millions of gold weekly and can rely on their donations to make bids without a high sales requirement for the members. Other guilds might not have as many big ticket traders, which means they need to make their gold from taxes and donations/raffles/auctions, thus you'll see higher sales requirements/dues in those guilds.
That's not entirely true. The system does incentivize pooling resources, you can point the finger at ZOS for that. But, it doesn't force quotas or dues.
I'm sure a number of the people who institute quotas or dues gleefully point the finger at ZOS and say, "See, they're forcing us to do it," but it was, ultimately, their choice.
you are right, for example, after u23 mournhold guild X has three choices
- a) stay its spot as where it has been for years - inevitable choice here it needs to increase bids
- b) go elsewhere, nothing changed on reqs
- c) get rid of guild
assuming we got scenario a) then gm has two options
- a1) increase reqs
- a2) find gold elsewhere
my logic would go for a1. yes thats a choice
A, B, and C, all ignore one, critical, piece of information about the U23 changes: bid placed on traders you do not win, are refunded.
This means, that while the U23 changes did push guilds to having a bit more cash on hand, it was a one time expense. As, an unsuccessful bids are "free."
sorry but who cares the refund? this has nothing to do with refunds.
people are fighting to stay in X spot they have been for years.
now X spot has 10 times more competitors. If GM wants to stay in X position he or she now needs to bid more.
before u23, if you want to win X spot lets say you bid 10million. you dont have too many competitors as there were no back for them
after u23, if you want to X spot you need to bid 30 million. People have more courage as they can bid 10.
GM of The Argonian Kebab, The Argonian Steak & The Argonian BBQ - PC - EU (The Tamriel Kitchen) @OsManiaC
Don't worry, the tail grows back!
if it breathes we eats. #justbosmerthings - we can detect stealth boy NPCs and hunt them thanks to our skill!
https://steamcommunity.com/id/osmaniac9 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭My suggestion if you are on PC/MAC is to find a trader which fits to your products based on his location.
For example - if you are beginner or you sell basic crafting mats - any trader in Vivec/Alinor will be your choice. If you are luxury trader - furniture, furnishing plans, BiS gear, golden mats etc - then ANY trader will do IF you have a good prices and you sell large ammounts - as long you use TTC. Highest requirements have guilds in Craglorn, as this is popular trial zone and alot of high CP players like to browse a store while grouping up.1 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Guild dues are on the hands of guilds, not ZOS. When you say you don't blame the guilds, you are incorrect in that assumption. It is 100% up to the guild on how much to charge dues if any.
That's not entirely true. The trader system forces guilds to institute minimum sales requirements/dues.
Some guilds are better equipped than others at making bids. Some guilds will have GMs/key members who make tens of millions of gold weekly and can rely on their donations to make bids without a high sales requirement for the members. Other guilds might not have as many big ticket traders, which means they need to make their gold from taxes and donations/raffles/auctions, thus you'll see higher sales requirements/dues in those guilds.
That's not entirely true. The system does incentivize pooling resources, you can point the finger at ZOS for that. But, it doesn't force quotas or dues.
I'm sure a number of the people who institute quotas or dues gleefully point the finger at ZOS and say, "See, they're forcing us to do it," but it was, ultimately, their choice.
you are right, for example, after u23 mournhold guild X has three choices
- a) stay its spot as where it has been for years - inevitable choice here it needs to increase bids
- b) go elsewhere, nothing changed on reqs
- c) get rid of guild
assuming we got scenario a) then gm has two options
- a1) increase reqs
- a2) find gold elsewhere
my logic would go for a1. yes thats a choice
A, B, and C, all ignore one, critical, piece of information about the U23 changes: bid placed on traders you do not win, are refunded.
This means, that while the U23 changes did push guilds to having a bit more cash on hand, it was a one time expense. As, an unsuccessful bids are "free."
But they aren't free. Each week that a guild has a sub optimal location (for their player base and the goods they sell) it means a week's loss of profit.
Providing their guild with a decent location is pretty much the only reason a guild would bid on a trader at all, no? So the loss of sales at a failed bid is part of the equation. It pushes the delta further and further until you end up at those three choices. From that perspective it isn't a temporary need to have extra cash on hand. It is a weekly occurrence.6 -
Irfind✭✭✭✭✭Im in 3 guilds, all 3 have Mercants but no dues, i am lucky i guess ?
No hot spots of course, but with TTC who cares ?PC EU no CP PVPEP Irfind - Stam NB DunmerEP Iswind - Mag Warden DunmerEP Ko'runa Silberklaue - Mag Temp KhajiitEP Eldrid Hagal - Mag DK DunmerEP Feyne R'is - Stam Sorc Dunmer ...with BowEP Wynn Loraethaine - Mag NB DunmerAD Runare Loraethaine - Stam Sorc AltmerAD Skadi Hagal - Stam DK Khajiit4 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was in 2 trading guilds. One hiked the sales requirements from 20k to 50k+5k fee or 500k (so I left since there is no chance I would be able to meet those targets considering 20k was already a struggle on weeks I was less active). The other one has no fees, but it lost the trader that it had without interruption for a year or so.
So now I guess I'll be using the Nirn Auction House addon to sell stuff, and *** this abomination of a trading system.5 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was in 2 trading guilds. One hiked the sales requirements from 20k to 50k+5k fee or 500k (so I left since there is no chance I would be able to meet those targets considering 20k was already a struggle on weeks I was less active). The other one has no fees, but it lost the trader that it had without interruption for a year or so.
So now I guess I'll be using the Nirn Auction House addon to sell stuff, and *** this abomination of a trading system.
Wasn't that the one that was put together by the guy who was ripping off TTC's code?2 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »I was in 2 trading guilds. One hiked the sales requirements from 20k to 50k+5k fee or 500k (so I left since there is no chance I would be able to meet those targets considering 20k was already a struggle on weeks I was less active). The other one has no fees, but it lost the trader that it had without interruption for a year or so.
So now I guess I'll be using the Nirn Auction House addon to sell stuff, and *** this abomination of a trading system.
Wasn't that the one that was put together by the guy who was ripping off TTC's code?
Don't know, you got any proof?1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hilariously, this guild ought to be asking for 429k in weekly sales, not 360k.
What?
Guilds only make 3.5% of the sales requirements back in the form of sales taxes. This means that most PC trading guilds lose money on having sales requirements instead of simply requiring a flat fee.
Flat fee: 15,000 gold
360k sales requirement = 12,600 gold
65k sales requirement = 2,275 gold
So while it might be aggravating that your weekly fee went up to a level close to what console guilds experience, the apparently dramatic increase in sales requirement doesnt surprise me one bit, and it actually generates less money for,your guild than the fee. Most PC players just don't realize how much less money their trading guilds make from sales requirements.
Another example from two of my trading guilds, both of whom regularly had good positions. (Caveat: Data is prior to Multibidding.)
My guild 1: fee of 5k, sales requirement 25k
3.5% of 25k = 875 gold.
Ideal Sales Requirement to equal fees: 143k
My guild 2: fee of 1k, sales requirement 5k
3.5% of 5k = 175 gold.
Ideal sales requirement to equal fees: 29k
In both cases, those guilds set their sales requirement too low if they wanted to make the same gold from players who sell vs players who don't.
Sales requirements are a giant subsidy for players who actually sell the required value of items. They get to generate less direct money for the guild in return for increasing the volume/value of the guild's goods.
So consider that the next time you see a sales requirement go up. PC trading guilds almost always make more money from fees than sales requirements because the 3.5% sales tax requires a lot of sales to be equivalent to the fees. Usually, that's a lot more sales than most players are willing to commit to.
Amusingly, just pay your fee and pat yourself on the back for directly contributing more gold to the guild than most of the people who only make their sales requirement!9 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Guild dues are on the hands of guilds, not ZOS. When you say you don't blame the guilds, you are incorrect in that assumption. It is 100% up to the guild on how much to charge dues if any.
That's not entirely true. The trader system forces guilds to institute minimum sales requirements/dues.
Some guilds are better equipped than others at making bids. Some guilds will have GMs/key members who make tens of millions of gold weekly and can rely on their donations to make bids without a high sales requirement for the members. Other guilds might not have as many big ticket traders, which means they need to make their gold from taxes and donations/raffles/auctions, thus you'll see higher sales requirements/dues in those guilds.
That's not entirely true. The system does incentivize pooling resources, you can point the finger at ZOS for that. But, it doesn't force quotas or dues.
I'm sure a number of the people who institute quotas or dues gleefully point the finger at ZOS and say, "See, they're forcing us to do it," but it was, ultimately, their choice.
you are right, for example, after u23 mournhold guild X has three choices
- a) stay its spot as where it has been for years - inevitable choice here it needs to increase bids
- b) go elsewhere, nothing changed on reqs
- c) get rid of guild
assuming we got scenario a) then gm has two options
- a1) increase reqs
- a2) find gold elsewhere
my logic would go for a1. yes thats a choice
A, B, and C, all ignore one, critical, piece of information about the U23 changes: bid placed on traders you do not win, are refunded.
This means, that while the U23 changes did push guilds to having a bit more cash on hand, it was a one time expense. As, an unsuccessful bids are "free."
sorry but who cares the refund? this has nothing to do with refunds.
people are fighting to stay in X spot they have been for years.
now X spot has 10 times more competitors. If GM wants to stay in X position he or she now needs to bid more.
before u23, if you want to win X spot lets say you bid 10million. you dont have too many competitors as there were no back for them
after u23, if you want to X spot you need to bid 30 million. People have more courage as they can bid 10.
Okay, let's say for the moment that bidding 30m isn't ridiculous overkill. Which, by the way, it is, and if your guild is dumb enough to bid 30m on their spot that's worth 10m, they deserve to bleed out.
But, ignoring that for the moment, let's say you want to place 10 30m bids, clearly you need to come up with 300m a week? Except, no, you don't, you only need 300m in liquid assets, and the ability to spend 30m, because the other nine bids refund after the bidding goes round. At that point, you don't even need 300m, because you can get by listing in two or three locations.
Also, if a location is only 15m, and you were paying 10... yeah, you got burned. You were getting the place for cheap, and that's no longer a thing. That said, if you're overcompensating and going, "well, let's triple the bid," that's a mistake.4 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Hilariously, this guild ought to be asking for 429k in weekly sales, not 360k.
What?
Guilds only make 3.5% of the sales requirements back in the form of sales taxes. This means that most PC trading guilds lose money on having sales requirements instead of simply requiring a flat fee.
Flat fee: 15,000 gold
360k sales requirement = 12,600 gold
65k sales requirement = 2,275 gold
So while it might be aggravating that your weekly fee went up to a level close to what console guilds experience, the apparently dramatic increase in sales requirement doesnt surprise me one bit, and it actually generates less money for,your guild than the fee. Most PC players just don't realize how much less money their trading guilds make from sales requirements.
Another example from two of my trading guilds, both of whom regularly had good positions. (Caveat: Data is prior to Multibidding.)
My guild 1: fee of 5k, sales requirement 25k
3.5% of 25k = 875 gold.
Ideal Sales Requirement to equal fees: 143k
My guild 2: fee of 1k, sales requirement 5k
3.5% of 5k = 175 gold.
Ideal sales requirement to equal fees: 29k
In both cases, those guilds set their sales requirement too low if they wanted to make the same gold from players who sell vs players who don't.
Sales requirements are a giant subsidy for players who actually sell the required value of items. They get to generate less direct money for the guild in return for increasing the volume/value of the guild's goods.
So consider that the next time you see a sales requirement go up. PC trading guilds almost always make more money from fees than sales requirements because the 3.5% sales tax requires a lot of sales to be equivalent to the fees. Usually, that's a lot more sales than most players are willing to commit to.
Amusingly, just pay your fee and pat yourself on the back for directly contributing more gold to the guild than most of the people who only make their sales requirement!
True, that's why GM should be able to set the tax for the guild by himself. For example 0% TAX, but weekly fee of 5k would be required or 10% tax, but no fee. If he will set it too high, then selllers will move to another place, if he sets it too low than it's his problem. Tax/fee system should be built-in in the game and much more complex than this garbage we have now.1 -
Kalik_Gold✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sell in zone chat. Join a social guild.Main: (PvP & PvE)PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige
PvP:
Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer
PvP: (Specialty)
Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade
Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
PvE:
Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight
Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight
Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar
Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden
Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade
Leveling...
Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
======
Passives of another race used. (RP)
*Breton
**Imperial
__________________________Backstories:_________________________
Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.
Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.
Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...
Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.
Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.
The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.
The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.
Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.
Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)
And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.
After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.
After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...
Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.
Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.
{time moves forward through the hour-glass}2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sorry but who cares the refund? this has nothing to do with refunds.
people are fighting to stay in X spot they have been for years.
now X spot has 10 times more competitors. If GM wants to stay in X position he or she now needs to bid more.
before u23, if you want to win X spot lets say you bid 10million. you dont have too many competitors as there were no back for them
after u23, if you want to X spot you need to bid 30 million. People have more courage as they can bid 10.
Actually, you make a pretty convincing case that it is about the refund. But, that is for another story.
Guilds do not need to worry about the people bidding on 10 locations. Anyone who is a threat, and can effectively bid on 10 locations, would have already taken over that spot. Guilds need to worry about the guild that is focusing on the top couple bids, primarily those that are looking to move up the ladder.
The other thing to remember is that this is all a massive gold sink. Massive. (I would love to see the numbers from ZOS, and am sure it would cause a lot of jaws to drop.) I am not an econ major, but it seems simple enough. If prices for guild traders are going up, it is only because there is an increasing amount of gold being used. The higher the guild trader prices go, the more gold is being removed from the economy. Steadily increasing guild trader prices cannot be maintained unless the gold supply is also increasing. Increasing prices driven by gold reserves can only last so long.
This will ultimately resolve itself over time.3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was in 2 trading guilds. One hiked the sales requirements from 20k to 50k+5k fee or 500k (so I left since there is no chance I would be able to meet those targets considering 20k was already a struggle on weeks I was less active). The other one has no fees, but it lost the trader that it had without interruption for a year or so.
Hmm. Your first guild is struggling for money. Not surprisingly, given multibidding. Thanks, ZOS!
At 3.5% guild tax, the guild makes:
Old sales requirement of 20k = 700 gold
New sales 50k + 5k fee = 6,750 gold.
New sales requirement of 500k = 17,500 gold
That last new sales requirement is also way too high given their requirement + fee option. The new alternate sales requirement ought to be 193k, assuming they want to be equal to their profit from sales + fee.
Why would they set a sales requirement of 500k then?
Least likely: 500k worth of sales is a ton of value and volume in their guild store, which is fantastic is you have sellers who can manage it consistently.
Most likely: they really want players using the 50k sales + 5k fee option. That's the best of both worlds - a respectable volume and value on the trader and a guaranteed amount of gold from every player.
Why now?
Assuming every player in the guild made the old 20k sales requirement (and they almost certainly did not), 350k gold is not much of a war chest for multibidding. Thanks, ZOS!
Under the new system, assuming every player makes the minimum sales+fee requirement, 3,375,000 gold looks like a much nicer war chest.
Not that it really helps you much to know all that, given that 20k sales was sometimes a struggle. You'd probably be better served by a guild that has a lower fee/raffle you feel comfortable paying, since those often contribute more to the guild than even high sales requirements.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »I was in 2 trading guilds. One hiked the sales requirements from 20k to 50k+5k fee or 500k (so I left since there is no chance I would be able to meet those targets considering 20k was already a struggle on weeks I was less active). The other one has no fees, but it lost the trader that it had without interruption for a year or so.
So now I guess I'll be using the Nirn Auction House addon to sell stuff, and *** this abomination of a trading system.
Wasn't that the one that was put together by the guy who was ripping off TTC's code?
Don't know, you got any proof?
It is the addon I'm thinking of.
Found this old post from @DRXHarbinger: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4353679/#Comment_4353679
But, yeah, Nirn Auction House is the addon I was thinking of. Don't use it, it's malware.2 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »VelimOrthic wrote: »
You keep coming back to this point but never explaining it. I don't see a problem with someone unable to come up with 15k being excluded from Four zones. I'm sorry but it just sounds outright absurd to say what you seem to be saying.Loves_guars wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »What system you on where they’re asking that much? 65k is ridiculous to begin with. I’m in a couple trading giilds on PS4 NA and they’re asking 15-20k weekly.
casuals get excluded from the system, when they should be included to shorten the breach between them and rich players.
You say "casual don't need main city trader" but actually yes, because in this way, the distance between poor and rich widens more and more.
Shouldn't you be getting ~300 x 6 characters x 7 days = 12,600 just from turning in writs alone? Or is my math way off.
Either way, players in capital guilds want to be highly competitive because they find that fun. It doesn't sound like you've got this quality. If I ran one of those guilds, I wouldn't see any reason why I should let you waste that roster space.
Six characters doing writs should return 27.6k per day (roughly).
And 5 max level thieves can generate 20k per day each, just in green, blue, and purple treasures alone, not counting motifs, furnishings, and furnishing plans to sell to players.... which can be worth a lot more.RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Okay, yeah, Nirn Auction House is absolutely the one I was thinking of.
Back when it first popped up, someone who worked in security checked it, and the software set off all kinds of virus warnings... @Philgo68 did a pretty good writeup on what he found:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4358216/#Comment_4358216Philgo68 wrote:I've looked at the provided source to the EXE and the LUA addon code itself. While I see no malicious code, there are still a few serious concerns.
1. The EXE provided does not necessarily come from the provided source code. It would be interesting to setup a system where a panel of ESO community members, or the ESOUI team, could compile addons like this (as there are a few of them out there) to make sure we have EXEs that match the code provided. (Just an aside, was a similar stink raise when TTC came out? TTC has an EXE and an AutoUpdater too.)
2. The EXE rewrites pieces of the LUA CODE portion of the addon. So when you /ReloadUI you are getting whatever new LUA code the EXE has written. This is used to get data back into the game from the EXE, but could be used to install LUA code that your ESO game starts running without any review at all. It's an interesting way to handle the data issue, and also mimics TTC's solution to that problem.
Which leads me to my last comment from an addon developer point of view...
The EXE and LUA code for this addon are HEAVILY borrowed from other's work. I don't mean there are a few sections of code here and there that look familiar, I mean LARGE sections of the code are simply cut and pasted. And to my eye, some of the code left in place from those addons indicates the author does not fully understand the code they are using. Steven Chen (of TTC fame) wrote the DLL that is being used, and it seems like other large pieces of the exe source came from TTC. The core LUA code came from Price Tracker and Itemization Browser (The Auction List window has "Itemization Browser" as it's title on my system, since I also have IB installed.) I now see the tiniest of nods has been made to Steven on the Addon page on ESOUI, but some proper credit is due to a number of other folks also. For me, the way this addon has been hacked together leaves serious concern about the stability and security of the system as a whole.
Note: I can't direct quote it because the thread was shut down because of one poster trolling the hell out of it.
Also note that Phil's point 2 is a terrifyingly massive security hole. You've got an .exe that's allowed to pull and execute code from a remote source. That's probably why some anti-virus software and @DRXHarbinger's security team red flagged this.
Also check out this post from @cyx54tc, detailling the contents of Nirn Auction House: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4359485/#Comment_4359485
But, yeah, plagiarism, on top of a security vulnerability you could drive a truck through.3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »VelimOrthic wrote: »
You keep coming back to this point but never explaining it. I don't see a problem with someone unable to come up with 15k being excluded from Four zones. I'm sorry but it just sounds outright absurd to say what you seem to be saying.Loves_guars wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »What system you on where they’re asking that much? 65k is ridiculous to begin with. I’m in a couple trading giilds on PS4 NA and they’re asking 15-20k weekly.
casuals get excluded from the system, when they should be included to shorten the breach between them and rich players.
You say "casual don't need main city trader" but actually yes, because in this way, the distance between poor and rich widens more and more.
Shouldn't you be getting ~300 x 6 characters x 7 days = 12,600 just from turning in writs alone? Or is my math way off.
Either way, players in capital guilds want to be highly competitive because they find that fun. It doesn't sound like you've got this quality. If I ran one of those guilds, I wouldn't see any reason why I should let you waste that roster space.
Six characters doing writs should return 27.6k per day (roughly).
And 5 max level thieves can generate 20k per day each, just in green, blue, and purple treasures alone, not counting motifs, furnishings, and furnishing plans to sell to players.... which can be worth a lot more.
It takes longer to do that than just doing your writs and moving on with your day.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »The other thing to remember is that this is all a massive gold sink. Massive. (I would love to see the numbers from ZOS, and am sure it would cause a lot of jaws to drop.)
The back of the napkin math I've been kicking around, based on the numbers I know, puts the weekly sink at around half a billion for PCNA. If prices are going up, it's higher than that.1
This discussion has been closed.