Guild dues just skyrocketed

Jayman1000

Loves_guars wrote: »

First: It's not my intention to flame, I just want to raise my concern to ZoS, from a casual player.

The trader guild I was in, just started asking for dues or raised the minimum sales from 65k to 360k weekly. This is just not acceptable for casual players. I know there were some changes to the bidding system, so I don't blame the guild, I hear this is happening to many of them.

Even I, doing 6 characters+ writs mostly daily, find it too much to stay on the guild and I will have to leave. These days I don't do anything else but I bet there are players that do much less. This is harming casual/semicasual/newish players that just want to sell stuff from time to time like you would do in any normal MMO.

You can say "find a guild without dues" but these are very rare the last time I tried to find one, and I can see why, the competition is too high and it seems that only the players with millions can stay on it. Moreover, obviously, these guilds have vendors in places like a lost wayshrine in Greenshade that no one ever will visit so the sales will be abysmal if any.

The guild trader system was already a disaster when you wanted to find an item, now add this problem. Please consider a whole revamp.

You dont mention which server you on, but if it is PC I guarantee you there are PLENTY of low req traders. Take a look at NA Elden Root traders, multiple trading guilds there have very low requirements, and Elden Root is still a splendid central trading place. If you on console I cant speak for that, dont know how it is there, and I will never know, wouldnt want to play ESO on console ever.

Dawnblade

Only thing you can do is find another guild - yeah, the player guild-based trader system is clunky and annoying to deal with at time, but there are guilds without silly high requirements.

Mr_Walker

360K. That's a lot.

Iskiab

The system is setup with supply or demand. If dues are that high then there are too many trade guilds or the GM is Siphoning gold out of the guild.

MLGProPlayer

VaranisArano wrote: »

Hilariously, this guild ought to be asking for 429k in weekly sales, not 360k.

What?

Guilds only make 3.5% of the sales requirements back in the form of sales taxes. This means that most PC trading guilds lose money on having sales requirements instead of simply requiring a flat fee.

Flat fee: 15,000 gold
360k sales requirement = 12,600 gold
65k sales requirement = 2,275 gold

So while it might be aggravating that your weekly fee went up to a level close to what console guilds experience, the apparently dramatic increase in sales requirement doesnt surprise me one bit, and it actually generates less money for,your guild than the fee. Most PC players just don't realize how much less money their trading guilds make from sales requirements.

Another example from two of my trading guilds, both of whom regularly had good positions. (Caveat: Data is prior to Multibidding.)
My guild 1: fee of 5k, sales requirement 25k
3.5% of 25k = 875 gold.
Ideal Sales Requirement to equal fees: 143k

My guild 2: fee of 1k, sales requirement 5k
3.5% of 5k = 175 gold.
Ideal sales requirement to equal fees: 29k

In both cases, those guilds set their sales requirement too low if they wanted to make the same gold from players who sell vs players who don't.

Sales requirements are a giant subsidy for players who actually sell the required value of items. They get to generate less direct money for the guild in return for increasing the volume/value of the guild's goods.

So consider that the next time you see a sales requirement go up. PC trading guilds almost always make more money from fees than sales requirements because the 3.5% sales tax requires a lot of sales to be equivalent to the fees. Usually, that's a lot more sales than most players are willing to commit to.

Amusingly, just pay your fee and pat yourself on the back for directly contributing more gold to the guild than most of the people who only make their sales requirement!

You can see how much your guild makes each week from taxes in MM and ATT. It's a hilariously small amount. The vast majority of the bid comes from:

- Auctions
- Donations
- GMs/rich members paying out of pocket

jainiadral

starkerealm wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

*jaw drop* 360K? Just how is anyone supposed to continually post those kinds of sales figures? In my illustrious former trading days, 80K was a stellar week for me. Probably my best-- but I'm not the spreadsheety sort.

I get the weird feeling gaming companies don't want us casuals around anymore... Though after reading the PTS changes here, ZOS doesn't seem as hostile as others *cough Bioware and Funcom cough*

I mean, I get the argument that guilds do operate independently on a base level, but the external systems and environment created by gaming companies drive a lot of survival behaviors. Throw a group of pacifists onto Lord of the Flies island and you'll see some core values become a lot more flexible real fast

Oh god, what did Funcom do this time?

In fairness, this specific example is entirely on the shoulders of guild leadership. Or, mismanagement by guild leadership. Realistically all you need are a few players in the guild doing well, who subsidize the rest. Stuff like guild raffles and auctions can raise a lot of money for the guild. This is what you get when Guild Leadership is lazy, and doesn't want to run events to get people engaged.

Sustained 360 a week is entirely doable if you're doing a lot of mat farming. But, that would be how you spent your week. Not fun.

Completely stopped developing any casual content at all in SWL. The few new gameplay modes that have come out are intended solely for the few remaining hardcore cabals. There's tons of us story hounds waiting in the wings for an end to the Morninglight arc, but it's never going to happen

I can't imagine gathering that many mats-- how long would you have to spend farming to hit those figures?

Ugh, TSW/SWL has been a "Super Hardcore or GTFO" trainwreck since Joel Bylos took the reigns. It's a shame because there isn't another urban fantasy MMO. There's precious few Urban Fantasy video games in general. But, yeah... ugh.

Anyway, for 360k, you'd need about 45 gold mats. That works to about 2,250 raw mats. I think @Inklings would put the number a little lower, maybe only 1,500. He's the refinement expert, I've only kinda kept track. Split the difference, say 2k mats, so, roughly 570 mat collections.

So, yeah, something like six hundred materials collected each week. It's doable, but, like I said, that would not be fun. I'm guesstimating here, but figure probably about 10-15 hours each week just going out and hoovering up any unattended materials.

Also, if you're doing your writs, your survey pickups would contribute significantly towards that pool, but, again, we're starting to trend into the range of treating this like it's a second job.

Those numbers are a little high, because you would get other stuff, including the refined mats, that you could sell, to help bring up the numbers, but we're still talking about a lot of harvesting.

Thanks for the numbers-- I can't imagine what a major PITA it was compiling them

OH MY GOD... 10-15 hours a week just gathering mats? That would be about 75% of the time I typically spend in-game in a week. I can't imagine doing that. I mean, talk about snoozeville! I like farting around or chest farming once or twice a month for an hour or two, but... yeah. No. Not happening

I don't even do writs anymore on a regular basis. Maybe once or twice a week on whatever toon I'm leveling. It's just not engaging, and my MMO chore tolerance is close to zip these days. I mean I'm 48 today. The clock is ticking down on my time on this planet and wasting it on things I don't like doing feels like a travesty.

Random Funcom note: Yeah, the gameplay aspect sucks these days. I remember reading about some poor casual schlub trying to do Dark Agartha and losing tons of skill points as the cost of entry on the subreddit... I wonder if Tencent's recent purchase of controlling interest in the company is going to change anything. If nothing else, when the upcoming Dune title gets released, I'm probably going to get Funcommed again like the sucker I am Because a part of me can't wait lol

MLGProPlayer

jainiadral wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

*jaw drop* 360K? Just how is anyone supposed to continually post those kinds of sales figures? In my illustrious former trading days, 80K was a stellar week for me. Probably my best-- but I'm not the spreadsheety sort.

I get the weird feeling gaming companies don't want us casuals around anymore... Though after reading the PTS changes here, ZOS doesn't seem as hostile as others *cough Bioware and Funcom cough*

I mean, I get the argument that guilds do operate independently on a base level, but the external systems and environment created by gaming companies drive a lot of survival behaviors. Throw a group of pacifists onto Lord of the Flies island and you'll see some core values become a lot more flexible real fast

Oh god, what did Funcom do this time?

In fairness, this specific example is entirely on the shoulders of guild leadership. Or, mismanagement by guild leadership. Realistically all you need are a few players in the guild doing well, who subsidize the rest. Stuff like guild raffles and auctions can raise a lot of money for the guild. This is what you get when Guild Leadership is lazy, and doesn't want to run events to get people engaged.

Sustained 360 a week is entirely doable if you're doing a lot of mat farming. But, that would be how you spent your week. Not fun.

Completely stopped developing any casual content at all in SWL. The few new gameplay modes that have come out are intended solely for the few remaining hardcore cabals. There's tons of us story hounds waiting in the wings for an end to the Morninglight arc, but it's never going to happen

I can't imagine gathering that many mats-- how long would you have to spend farming to hit those figures?

Ugh, TSW/SWL has been a "Super Hardcore or GTFO" trainwreck since Joel Bylos took the reigns. It's a shame because there isn't another urban fantasy MMO. There's precious few Urban Fantasy video games in general. But, yeah... ugh.

Anyway, for 360k, you'd need about 45 gold mats. That works to about 2,250 raw mats. I think @Inklings would put the number a little lower, maybe only 1,500. He's the refinement expert, I've only kinda kept track. Split the difference, say 2k mats, so, roughly 570 mat collections.

So, yeah, something like six hundred materials collected each week. It's doable, but, like I said, that would not be fun. I'm guesstimating here, but figure probably about 10-15 hours each week just going out and hoovering up any unattended materials.

Also, if you're doing your writs, your survey pickups would contribute significantly towards that pool, but, again, we're starting to trend into the range of treating this like it's a second job.

Those numbers are a little high, because you would get other stuff, including the refined mats, that you could sell, to help bring up the numbers, but we're still talking about a lot of harvesting.

Thanks for the numbers-- I can't imagine what a major PITA it was compiling them

OH MY GOD... 10-15 hours a week just gathering mats? That would be about 75% of the time I typically spend in-game in a week. I can't imagine doing that. I mean, talk about snoozeville! I like farting around or chest farming once or twice a month for an hour or two, but... yeah. No. Not happening

I don't even do writs anymore on a regular basis. Maybe once or twice a week on whatever toon I'm leveling. It's just not engaging, and my MMO chore tolerance is close to zip these days. I mean I'm 48 today. The clock is ticking down on my time on this planet and wasting it on things I don't like doing feels like a travesty.

Random Funcom note: Yeah, the gameplay aspect sucks these days. I remember reading about some poor casual schlub trying to do Dark Agartha and losing tons of skill points as the cost of entry on the subreddit... I wonder if Tencent's recent purchase of controlling interest in the company is going to change anything. If nothing else, when the upcoming Dune title gets released, I'm probably going to get Funcommed again like the sucker I am Because a part of me can't wait lol

It would only take you 6-7 hours of farming to hit 360k. You can easily make 50-60k per hour if you use farming gear and optimize your route. You used to be able to easily make 100k+, but those days are gone. The market is just so oversaturated with mats right now (largely thanks to botting).

Farming gear = Coward's + Darkstride

How to optimize your farm route? Download Harvest Map, import all node locations (see point #11), enable heat map mode (see point #6) to determine a high density route (keeping in mind mob density too, since you want to avoid all fighting), and then turn on 3D pins (see point #2).

jainiadral

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

*jaw drop* 360K? Just how is anyone supposed to continually post those kinds of sales figures? In my illustrious former trading days, 80K was a stellar week for me. Probably my best-- but I'm not the spreadsheety sort.

I get the weird feeling gaming companies don't want us casuals around anymore... Though after reading the PTS changes here, ZOS doesn't seem as hostile as others *cough Bioware and Funcom cough*

I mean, I get the argument that guilds do operate independently on a base level, but the external systems and environment created by gaming companies drive a lot of survival behaviors. Throw a group of pacifists onto Lord of the Flies island and you'll see some core values become a lot more flexible real fast

Oh god, what did Funcom do this time?

In fairness, this specific example is entirely on the shoulders of guild leadership. Or, mismanagement by guild leadership. Realistically all you need are a few players in the guild doing well, who subsidize the rest. Stuff like guild raffles and auctions can raise a lot of money for the guild. This is what you get when Guild Leadership is lazy, and doesn't want to run events to get people engaged.

Sustained 360 a week is entirely doable if you're doing a lot of mat farming. But, that would be how you spent your week. Not fun.

Completely stopped developing any casual content at all in SWL. The few new gameplay modes that have come out are intended solely for the few remaining hardcore cabals. There's tons of us story hounds waiting in the wings for an end to the Morninglight arc, but it's never going to happen

I can't imagine gathering that many mats-- how long would you have to spend farming to hit those figures?

Ugh, TSW/SWL has been a "Super Hardcore or GTFO" trainwreck since Joel Bylos took the reigns. It's a shame because there isn't another urban fantasy MMO. There's precious few Urban Fantasy video games in general. But, yeah... ugh.

Anyway, for 360k, you'd need about 45 gold mats. That works to about 2,250 raw mats. I think @Inklings would put the number a little lower, maybe only 1,500. He's the refinement expert, I've only kinda kept track. Split the difference, say 2k mats, so, roughly 570 mat collections.

So, yeah, something like six hundred materials collected each week. It's doable, but, like I said, that would not be fun. I'm guesstimating here, but figure probably about 10-15 hours each week just going out and hoovering up any unattended materials.

Also, if you're doing your writs, your survey pickups would contribute significantly towards that pool, but, again, we're starting to trend into the range of treating this like it's a second job.

Those numbers are a little high, because you would get other stuff, including the refined mats, that you could sell, to help bring up the numbers, but we're still talking about a lot of harvesting.

Thanks for the numbers-- I can't imagine what a major PITA it was compiling them

OH MY GOD... 10-15 hours a week just gathering mats? That would be about 75% of the time I typically spend in-game in a week. I can't imagine doing that. I mean, talk about snoozeville! I like farting around or chest farming once or twice a month for an hour or two, but... yeah. No. Not happening

I don't even do writs anymore on a regular basis. Maybe once or twice a week on whatever toon I'm leveling. It's just not engaging, and my MMO chore tolerance is close to zip these days. I mean I'm 48 today. The clock is ticking down on my time on this planet and wasting it on things I don't like doing feels like a travesty.

Random Funcom note: Yeah, the gameplay aspect sucks these days. I remember reading about some poor casual schlub trying to do Dark Agartha and losing tons of skill points as the cost of entry on the subreddit... I wonder if Tencent's recent purchase of controlling interest in the company is going to change anything. If nothing else, when the upcoming Dune title gets released, I'm probably going to get Funcommed again like the sucker I am Because a part of me can't wait lol

It would only take you 6-7 hours of farming to hit 360k. You can easily make 50-60k per hour if you use farming gear and optimize your route. You used to be able to easily make 100k+, but those days are gone. The market is just so oversaturated with mats right now (largely thanks to botting).

Farming gear = Coward's + Darkstride

How to optimize your farm route? Download Harvest Map, import all node locations (see point #11), enable heat map mode (see point #6) to determine a high density route (keeping in mind mob density too, since you want to avoid all fighting), and then turn on 3D pins (see point #2).

This is an awesome guide for someone interested Have an insightful!

That said, I still can't imagine doing this. 6-7 hours every week is a heck of a lot of time to spend doing something boring. I can't even be bothered to spend 5-10 minutes doing writs on a single toon

ZeroXFF

starkerealm wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I was in 2 trading guilds. One hiked the sales requirements from 20k to 50k+5k fee or 500k (so I left since there is no chance I would be able to meet those targets considering 20k was already a struggle on weeks I was less active). The other one has no fees, but it lost the trader that it had without interruption for a year or so.

So now I guess I'll be using the Nirn Auction House addon to sell stuff, and *** this abomination of a trading system.

Wasn't that the one that was put together by the guy who was ripping off TTC's code?

Don't know, you got any proof?

It is the addon I'm thinking of.

Found this old post from @DRXHarbinger: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4353679/#Comment_4353679

But, yeah, Nirn Auction House is the addon I was thinking of. Don't use it, it's malware.

Since that thread the code was made open-source, so if there actually was an issue, you could easily point to it.

ZeroXFF

starkerealm wrote: »

Okay, yeah, Nirn Auction House is absolutely the one I was thinking of.

Back when it first popped up, someone who worked in security checked it, and the software set off all kinds of virus warnings... @Philgo68 did a pretty good writeup on what he found:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4358216/#Comment_4358216

Philgo68 wrote:

I've looked at the provided source to the EXE and the LUA addon code itself. While I see no malicious code, there are still a few serious concerns.
1. The EXE provided does not necessarily come from the provided source code. It would be interesting to setup a system where a panel of ESO community members, or the ESOUI team, could compile addons like this (as there are a few of them out there) to make sure we have EXEs that match the code provided. (Just an aside, was a similar stink raise when TTC came out? TTC has an EXE and an AutoUpdater too.)

2. The EXE rewrites pieces of the LUA CODE portion of the addon. So when you /ReloadUI you are getting whatever new LUA code the EXE has written. This is used to get data back into the game from the EXE, but could be used to install LUA code that your ESO game starts running without any review at all. It's an interesting way to handle the data issue, and also mimics TTC's solution to that problem.

Which leads me to my last comment from an addon developer point of view...
The EXE and LUA code for this addon are HEAVILY borrowed from other's work. I don't mean there are a few sections of code here and there that look familiar, I mean LARGE sections of the code are simply cut and pasted. And to my eye, some of the code left in place from those addons indicates the author does not fully understand the code they are using. Steven Chen (of TTC fame) wrote the DLL that is being used, and it seems like other large pieces of the exe source came from TTC. The core LUA code came from Price Tracker and Itemization Browser (The Auction List window has "Itemization Browser" as it's title on my system, since I also have IB installed.) I now see the tiniest of nods has been made to Steven on the Addon page on ESOUI, but some proper credit is due to a number of other folks also. For me, the way this addon has been hacked together leaves serious concern about the stability and security of the system as a whole.

Note: I can't direct quote it because the thread was shut down because of one poster trolling the hell out of it.

Also note that Phil's point 2 is a terrifyingly massive security hole. You've got an .exe that's allowed to pull and execute code from a remote source. That's probably why some anti-virus software and @DRXHarbinger's security team red flagged this.

Also check out this post from @cyx54tc, detailling the contents of Nirn Auction House: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4359485/#Comment_4359485

But, yeah, plagiarism, on top of a security vulnerability you could drive a truck through.

So basically it has the exact same security problem as TTC.

Tigerseye

That's ridiculous.

Definitely leave that guild and find another one.

Nevaee

The only thing (well, maybe the second only thing) I do not like in the game is the market.

It needs a public auction house, make it an ESO plus feature.

Get rid of guild stores, the prices to hire one a week are just ridiculous and I am not using that feature. This just encourages gold sellers.

Tigerseye

OsManiaC wrote: »

I am laughing hard now people crying with pc eu all guilds require flat fees.

They don't.

Tigerseye

mocap wrote: »

360k week ? Wadda?
Top guilds like TTM Overflow and Harrods in Deshman charge around 60-70k.

When I was in Golden Goose, the top guilds, in the same group, had mins of that - they didn't charge that.

Minyassa

Don't worry about trader location. Having a cheap trader in the middle of nowhere is fine for sales, you just need to stack the deck. Use TTC, get the add-on, choose competitive prices, make sure you post your items that you've put in the guild store, and people will see it.

Essavias

Nevaee wrote: »

The only thing (well, maybe the second only thing) I do not like in the game is the market.

It needs a public auction house, make it an ESO plus feature.

Get rid of guild stores, the prices to hire one a week are just ridiculous and I am not using that feature. This just encourages gold sellers.

Yeah, that gonna end well.
/sarcasm

Fiktius

Tigerseye wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

I am laughing hard now people crying with pc eu all guilds require flat fees.

They don't.

Not all of them require fees, but more and more guilds are implementing fees and tbh: I'm not surprised.
When I've been following how domino effect is bouncing guilds back and forth, it's been just question of time when guilds will do something about it. Guilds just adapt different ways, depending what they see reasonable for their guild.

And about those sale requirements (360 K weekly) which OP mentioned, those could be absurd numbers in PC EU server, but I don't think that OP is talking about PC EU guild, so I won't comment about requirements of different platform which got different guilds, prices and market circumstances.

Gelmir

Minyassa wrote: »

Don't worry about trader location. Having a cheap trader in the middle of nowhere is fine for sales, you just need to stack the deck. Use TTC, get the add-on, choose competitive prices, make sure you post your items that you've put in the guild store, and people will see it.

And never think of manipulating the market into your higher prices, overall totally killing the idea of Free Market. Just list lower than average, and watch prices go down week by week to total nothingness, to the point where you give up the very idea of selling altogether... LOL

starkerealm

ZeroXFF wrote: »

So basically it has the exact same security problem as TTC.

To an extent. With NAH, it's compounded slightly, because the author plagurized their code base. In both cases, it's a pretty severe risk, but when you add in an author who doesn't understand their own code? Yeak.

Also ran across a couple threads when I was searching this where people were having items disappear without getting paid. (This thread, for example.) If it had been last year, I would have assumed it was the result of an exploit that was letting people bypass the CoD system, but given that was last month? I don't know.

Either way, I mean, if you want to use it, go ahead. I do not trust this. My trust for TTC is kinda limited, and I do more with the website than the client, but you're correct, that one is also a security risk, and it was a discussion that happened back when TTC first rolled out. With NAH, the Author and their "no, really, I'm not a sockpuppet," advocate didn't create the best impression.

Dread_Viking

Loves_guars wrote: »

First: It's not my intention to flame, I just want to raise my concern to ZoS, from a casual player.

The trader guild I was in, just started asking for dues or raised the minimum sales from 65k to 360k weekly. This is just not acceptable for casual players. I know there were some changes to the bidding system, so I don't blame the guild, I hear this is happening to many of them.

Even I, doing 6 characters+ writs mostly daily, find it too much to stay on the guild and I will have to leave. These days I don't do anything else but I bet there are players that do much less. This is harming casual/semicasual/newish players that just want to sell stuff from time to time like you would do in any normal MMO.

You can say "find a guild without dues" but these are very rare the last time I tried to find one, and I can see why, the competition is too high and it seems that only the players with millions can stay on it. Moreover, obviously, these guilds have vendors in places like a lost wayshrine in Greenshade that no one ever will visit so the sales will be abysmal if any.

The guild trader system was already a disaster when you wanted to find an item, now add this problem. Please consider a whole revamp.

can i ask what platform you are on ???

starkerealm

Dread_Viking wrote: »

Loves_guars wrote: »

First: It's not my intention to flame, I just want to raise my concern to ZoS, from a casual player.

The trader guild I was in, just started asking for dues or raised the minimum sales from 65k to 360k weekly. This is just not acceptable for casual players. I know there were some changes to the bidding system, so I don't blame the guild, I hear this is happening to many of them.

Even I, doing 6 characters+ writs mostly daily, find it too much to stay on the guild and I will have to leave. These days I don't do anything else but I bet there are players that do much less. This is harming casual/semicasual/newish players that just want to sell stuff from time to time like you would do in any normal MMO.

You can say "find a guild without dues" but these are very rare the last time I tried to find one, and I can see why, the competition is too high and it seems that only the players with millions can stay on it. Moreover, obviously, these guilds have vendors in places like a lost wayshrine in Greenshade that no one ever will visit so the sales will be abysmal if any.

The guild trader system was already a disaster when you wanted to find an item, now add this problem. Please consider a whole revamp.

can i ask what platform you are on ???

PC. Not sure if they're NA or EU, though. I think they've mentioned in the past, I just don't remember.

Siohwenoeht

Nevaee wrote: »

The only thing (well, maybe the second only thing) I do not like in the game is the market.

It needs a public auction house, make it an ESO plus feature.

Get rid of guild stores, the prices to hire one a week are just ridiculous and I am not using that feature. This just encourages gold sellers.

It's the most effective gold sink I've seen in a mmo to date which leads to one of the most stable economies I've seen as well.

ESO seems to have struck the right balance between gold creation and gold sink while leaving gold creation accessable to even brand new players. Gold is incredibly easy to make even if you never touch a guild trader. I'm not even finished levelling my lastest toon and it has close to 100k with no seed money from my bank. (It's been more or less a month)

When I played WoW I remember constantly have to scrape together money. Even through the auction house you had to compete with constant undercutting and crazy listing tactics. People would list mats individually at a higher cost and flood the AH with hundreds of listings thus making it royally inconvenient to find or sell in bulk. I knew of several traders that would corner the market or buy and sit on certain things to artificially raise prices.

Having traders spread out between guild's cuts down on that enormously and prices are quite stable. I was at the out of the way trader in Malabal Tor yesterday, just south of The Ouze and mat prices were the same as you'd find in the main hubs.

Easily_Lost

I have been using NAH for about 6 months now and never had any problem losing items that I have sold.

Speaking of fees, I belong to 5 trading guilds and all of them have fees from 5k/week to 15k/per week. I give each of them 30k/week. You say that is way to much, but I earn move that that each week and still make a profit.

Speaking of a global AH, I used to play an MMO that had a AH, I loved it. I could buy things low and resell them for double or more of what I paid with out much effort. At least with the guild trader system it is a bit more work. LOL

Cavedog

The new bidding system for vendors totally [removed profanity] most trade guilds. There are now 98% worthless trade guilds, and 2% worth doing what it takes to keep the prime vendor location.

I totally disagree with the idea of a central auction house, but they definitely need to rethink their bidding system for the trade vendor stalls.

Tatanko

Gelmir wrote: »

And never think of manipulating the market into your higher prices, overall totally killing the idea of Free Market. Just list lower than average, and watch prices go down week by week to total nothingness, to the point where you give up the very idea of selling altogether... LOL

If that was the case, every item would have hit rock bottom already. Seeing as the economy is pretty stable, at least where I play on PC-NA, I would say you're sputtering nonsense.

I can easily push 500k+ a week through my social guild that has an out-of-the-way trader, and I don't need to ruin the market to do it -- but I do need to price myself appropriately to make it worth my customers' effort. It's common sense.

anitajoneb17_ESO

[Quoted post has been removed.]

@Tandor, you write well, you often express sensible points of view, and opinions, and I often agree with you - and even when I don't, I still respect you because you're pleasant to read and you make sense.

I was literally stunned when I realized that the above statement "Guess where that comes from, if not from inflated prices!" came from you.

@starkerealm may have started his post in a risky way but he's genuine, and he's right. There's something fundamental that you haven't understood (and that's a fact, not an opinion) and he really took the time to explain it nicely and in details. There's nothing condescending in that.
Would you please consider reading his post ... ?

Crucified4sin

I found a donation based trade guild with a capital trader, they always are capable of getting a trader due to the fact there are enough grateful people who donate to keep the trader...

It's also the first and only one I've joined, and I make sale on a daily basis, albeit some slow days I'll only sell a few items. Others I'll sell half my listings.

Its definitely possible to find one that doesn't demand a fee, and has a good location.. it all runs down to the folk inside the guild and if they are willing to invest in thier guild.

I believe most of these guilds that charge you are simply doing so for self gain.. sure they spend some loot on the trader but when you've got 30 people+ paying 15k a piece there should be a significant profit after paying the expenses that I assume they pocket.

Be patient in your guild search and you'll find one that works for you

Tatanko

Crucified4sin wrote: »

when you've got 30 people+ paying 15k a piece there should be a significant profit after paying the expenses that I assume they pocket.

Assuming a guild roster that's never quite full: 15,000 x 450 members = 6.75 million gold. That would not even come close to covering the bid for a spot in a capital city.

Tandor

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

[Quoted post has been removed.]

@Tandor, you write well, you often express sensible points of view, and opinions, and I often agree with you - and even when I don't, I still respect you because you're pleasant to read and you make sense.

I was literally stunned when I realized that the above statement "Guess where that comes from, if not from inflated prices!" came from you.

@starkerealm may have started his post in a risky way but he's genuine, and he's right. There's something fundamental that you haven't understood (and that's a fact, not an opinion) and he really took the time to explain it nicely and in details. There's nothing condescending in that.
Would you please consider reading his post ... ?

Thanks. I can tell you where my comment came from. If traders have to pay inflated bids and dues, then that will be reflected in the prices they charge. An inflated trading gold sink is funded out of inflated prices, that was my point.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Tandor wrote: »

Thanks. I can tell you where my comment came from. If traders have to pay inflated bids and dues, then that will be reflected in the prices they charge. An inflated trading gold sink is funded out of inflated prices, that was my point.

That's exactly where you're wrong, and I really hope you don't mind me saying so, frank and blunt.
Let's imagine you need more gold to place your bid (or w/e reason you may need gold for, actually).
You have several options here : farm stuff to sell, farm mobs for gold, farm repeatable quests for gold & stuff to sell, get donations from your teammates, sell your inventory. All those options can be strictly classified into two categories : those who transfer gold, and those who create gold.
- If you go farm corn flowers and sell them to another player, you haven't created any gold, you've taken someone else's gold.
- If you go farm a public dungeon for a couple of hours, collect the gold and vendor the looted stuff, you've created gold.
- If you do your daily crafting writs on all your characters instead of your usual crafter only, you've created gold. More gold than on your usual crafter only.

So no, the increased bids aren't necessarily financed by higher prices, since you have the option to create it yourself by farming gold ingame.

Farming gold all by yourself without trading is easy in ESO. It's, in my opinion, a huge plus for this game. It's beginner friendly, and solo-player friendly, it's a very valuable option for those who don't want to trade, and an additional option for those who trade to make more gold.
But the counterpart of gold being created so easily (ans therefore in huge quantities) is that you need a huge gold sink somewhere in the game of more or less equal quantity, else gold would lose all its value. Trader bids are not the only gold sink in the game (golden vendor, luxury vendor, gear repairs, stables, etc... all are gold sinks too) but they are a very significant one. They don't send the traded goods' value into the void (that's only transferred gold, not created gold), they send player-created gold into the void.

Differentiating between created currency and transferred currency is essential to understanding any economy (including ESO's for that matter), and that's what makes your statement inherently, factually wrong. And I really hope you don't mind me trying to explain... I really do.

EDIT : for the clarity of the demonstration, I left out one component that seems to be more significant than we think : crown sellers. There seems to be a significant amount of gold within bids currently coming from crown sellers. I think it's a huge problem because it's unfair for guilds that compete with ingame mechanics, but that's the moral point of view. From an economical point of view, that's an increase of the gold sink, and therefore a bonus for the game as a whole. And another, separate, additional reason why your statement (increased bids are financed by higer trading prices) is inherently wrong...