Guild dues just skyrocketed

Loves_guars

First: It's not my intention to flame, I just want to raise my concern to ZoS, from a casual player.

The trader guild I was in, just started asking for dues or raised the minimum sales from 65k to 360k weekly. This is just not acceptable for casual players. I know there were some changes to the bidding system, so I don't blame the guild, I hear this is happening to many of them.

Even I, doing 6 characters+ writs mostly daily, find it too much to stay on the guild and I will have to leave. These days I don't do anything else but I bet there are players that do much less. This is harming casual/semicasual/newish players that just want to sell stuff from time to time like you would do in any normal MMO.

You can say "find a guild without dues" but these are very rare the last time I tried to find one, and I can see why, the competition is too high and it seems that only the players with millions can stay on it. Moreover, obviously, these guilds have vendors in places like a lost wayshrine in Greenshade that no one ever will visit so the sales will be abysmal if any.

The guild trader system was already a disaster when you wanted to find an item, now add this problem. Please consider a whole revamp.

Deep_01

Primary purpose of trading guilds is for sales. Please switch to another trading guild if you cannot make minimum sales. The friends/environment is secondary.

There are plenty of guilds with different requirements in all servers.

Hapexamendios

What system you on where they’re asking that much? 65k is ridiculous to begin with. I’m in a couple trading giilds on PS4 NA and they’re asking 15-20k weekly.

jazsper77

There are plenty of Capital traders that are donation based or as low as 5k a week without sales requirements. If your just gonna blindly follow what the Guild is telling you then that’s on you. Use the Guild Finder tool, you will find a much better fit then what you have.

*ALSO CASUAL PLAYERS really shouldn’t need CAPITAL TRADERS . Unless this is another my GUILD CANT BUY GHOSTS ANYMORE and we want the old system back.

Ackwalan

Guild dues are on the hands of guilds, not ZOS. When you say you don't blame the guilds, you are incorrect in that assumption. It is 100% up to the guild on how much to charge dues if any.

Loves_guars

Hapexamendios wrote: »

What system you on where they’re asking that much? 65k is ridiculous to begin with. I’m in a couple trading giilds on PS4 NA and they’re asking 15-20k weekly.

Yes sorry, I meant 15k dues, (360k sales without dues). I know it's not much for rich players, but my point is that casuals get excluded from the system, when they should be included to shorten the breach between them and rich players.

To answer everyone, same, I think this is nonsensical, in the way that you need weekly money to stay competitive. You say "casual don't need main city trader" but actually yes, because in this way, the distance between poor and rich widens more and more.

Siohwenoeht

Loves_guars wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

What system you on where they’re asking that much? 65k is ridiculous to begin with. I’m in a couple trading giilds on PS4 NA and they’re asking 15-20k weekly.

Yes sorry, I meant 15k dues, (360k sales without dues). I know it's not much for rich players, but my point is that casuals get excluded from the system, when they should be included to shorten the breach between them and rich players.

360k sales seems extraordinarily high. My guess is the guild's volume tanked and the few active traders left in it are being asked to foot the bill. I'd start looking for a different guild, this particular one sounds like it's on the last leg.

JamieAubrey

This is why I joined a guild with no requirements, as I don't PvE so don't have things to sell in mass, only when I need gear from a zone and just buy the boxes and sell what I don't need

jazsper77

So casual,time to time,and new players do NOT need CAPITAL TRADERS!!!!!!

So I get what OP is actually doing. Multi Bid system is working as intended. No ghosts, no back ups . Love it !!!

We used to have 25 ghosts a week on PS4 NA and now Zero. 👍 to Zos for fixing this and all the GUILDS who created the mess, this is the price you pay.

starkerealm

Loves_guars wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

What system you on where they’re asking that much? 65k is ridiculous to begin with. I’m in a couple trading giilds on PS4 NA and they’re asking 15-20k weekly.

Yes sorry, I meant 15k dues, (360k sales without dues). I know it's not much for rich players, but my point is that casuals get excluded from the system, when they should be included to shorten the breach between them and rich players.

To answer everyone, same, I think this is nonsensical, in the way that you need weekly money to stay competitive. You say "casual don't need main city trader" but actually yes, because in this way, the distance between poor and rich widens more and more.

No, fifteen a week is ridiculous. Unless you're in someplace like Mournhold, Wayrest, or Rawl'Kha, that's completely unreasonable.

The three-sixty a week in sales is also bonkers. I know it's doable, but that's not a trading guild that wants casual players.

My advice? Find a different guild. I think @Siohwenoeht is correct, and the guild's membership bolted. At that point the smart thing would be to live off of savings while rebuilding the guild, but instead they've decided to squeeze the members. Get out. If you need a guild to land in, let us know what your platform/server is, and someone's got invite privileges to a better guild for you.

idk

Find a trading guild that works for you. I have been in a guild for years that is in a good location and have never had to pay a dime as long as I sell a nominal amount. Considering I am in the guild to sell that works well.

redspecter23

If you don't like the dues, don't pay them and look for another guild. If enough people do this, prices eventually drop and dues drop with it.

starkerealm

idk wrote: »

Find a trading guild that works for you. I have been in a guild for years that is in a good location and have never had to pay a dime as long as I sell a nominal amount. Considering I am in the guild to sell that works well.

See that and raise you: I've gone without selling stuff for months at a time on occasion. So long as I'm there alive, and contributing to the guild, even if that's just providing advice in chat, they're happy to have me.

jainiadral

*jaw drop* 360K? Just how is anyone supposed to continually post those kinds of sales figures? In my illustrious former trading days, 80K was a stellar week for me. Probably my best-- but I'm not the spreadsheety sort.

I get the weird feeling gaming companies don't want us casuals around anymore... Though after reading the PTS changes here, ZOS doesn't seem as hostile as others *cough Bioware and Funcom cough*

I mean, I get the argument that guilds do operate independently on a base level, but the external systems and environment created by gaming companies drive a lot of survival behaviors. Throw a group of pacifists onto Lord of the Flies island and you'll see some core values become a lot more flexible real fast

starkerealm

redspecter23 wrote: »

If you don't like the dues, don't pay them and look for another guild. If enough people do this, prices eventually drop and dues drop with it.

In fairness, there are a lot of guilds that don't have dues... wait, are you in AASB?

idk

starkerealm wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Find a trading guild that works for you. I have been in a guild for years that is in a good location and have never had to pay a dime as long as I sell a nominal amount. Considering I am in the guild to sell that works well.

See that and raise you: I've gone without selling stuff for months at a time on occasion. So long as I'm there alive, and contributing to the guild, even if that's just providing advice in chat, they're happy to have me.

Considering how much I generally sell, yea, they do not kick me if I miss some time. A good trading guild leader knows who is who in the guild and makes sure not to kick the ones who sell.

redspecter23

starkerealm wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

If you don't like the dues, don't pay them and look for another guild. If enough people do this, prices eventually drop and dues drop with it.

In fairness, there are a lot of guilds that don't have dues... wait, are you in AASB?

Not sure what AASB is, but I'm in two guilds with no dues right now and sell things at a reasonable rate.

starkerealm

jainiadral wrote: »

*jaw drop* 360K? Just how is anyone supposed to continually post those kinds of sales figures? In my illustrious former trading days, 80K was a stellar week for me. Probably my best-- but I'm not the spreadsheety sort.

I get the weird feeling gaming companies don't want us casuals around anymore... Though after reading the PTS changes here, ZOS doesn't seem as hostile as others *cough Bioware and Funcom cough*

I mean, I get the argument that guilds do operate independently on a base level, but the external systems and environment created by gaming companies drive a lot of survival behaviors. Throw a group of pacifists onto Lord of the Flies island and you'll see some core values become a lot more flexible real fast

Oh god, what did Funcom do this time?

In fairness, this specific example is entirely on the shoulders of guild leadership. Or, mismanagement by guild leadership. Realistically all you need are a few players in the guild doing well, who subsidize the rest. Stuff like guild raffles and auctions can raise a lot of money for the guild. This is what you get when Guild Leadership is lazy, and doesn't want to run events to get people engaged.

Sustained 360 a week is entirely doable if you're doing a lot of mat farming. But, that would be how you spent your week. Not fun.

starkerealm

redspecter23 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

If you don't like the dues, don't pay them and look for another guild. If enough people do this, prices eventually drop and dues drop with it.

In fairness, there are a lot of guilds that don't have dues... wait, are you in AASB?

Not sure what AASB is, but I'm in two guilds with no dues right now and sell things at a reasonable rate.

Trade guild out of Markarth. I had the weird feeling that I've seen your username in our discord, and was like, "wait, are we talking about the same guild?"

Again, same deal, no dues, no quota. Mostly supported through a couple guild members who generate a downright terrifying amount of cash.

jainiadral

starkerealm wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

*jaw drop* 360K? Just how is anyone supposed to continually post those kinds of sales figures? In my illustrious former trading days, 80K was a stellar week for me. Probably my best-- but I'm not the spreadsheety sort.

I get the weird feeling gaming companies don't want us casuals around anymore... Though after reading the PTS changes here, ZOS doesn't seem as hostile as others *cough Bioware and Funcom cough*

I mean, I get the argument that guilds do operate independently on a base level, but the external systems and environment created by gaming companies drive a lot of survival behaviors. Throw a group of pacifists onto Lord of the Flies island and you'll see some core values become a lot more flexible real fast

Oh god, what did Funcom do this time?

In fairness, this specific example is entirely on the shoulders of guild leadership. Or, mismanagement by guild leadership. Realistically all you need are a few players in the guild doing well, who subsidize the rest. Stuff like guild raffles and auctions can raise a lot of money for the guild. This is what you get when Guild Leadership is lazy, and doesn't want to run events to get people engaged.

Sustained 360 a week is entirely doable if you're doing a lot of mat farming. But, that would be how you spent your week. Not fun.

Completely stopped developing any casual content at all in SWL. The few new gameplay modes that have come out are intended solely for the few remaining hardcore cabals. There's tons of us story hounds waiting in the wings for an end to the Morninglight arc, but it's never going to happen

I can't imagine gathering that many mats-- how long would you have to spend farming to hit those figures?

starkerealm

jainiadral wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

*jaw drop* 360K? Just how is anyone supposed to continually post those kinds of sales figures? In my illustrious former trading days, 80K was a stellar week for me. Probably my best-- but I'm not the spreadsheety sort.

I get the weird feeling gaming companies don't want us casuals around anymore... Though after reading the PTS changes here, ZOS doesn't seem as hostile as others *cough Bioware and Funcom cough*

I mean, I get the argument that guilds do operate independently on a base level, but the external systems and environment created by gaming companies drive a lot of survival behaviors. Throw a group of pacifists onto Lord of the Flies island and you'll see some core values become a lot more flexible real fast

Oh god, what did Funcom do this time?

In fairness, this specific example is entirely on the shoulders of guild leadership. Or, mismanagement by guild leadership. Realistically all you need are a few players in the guild doing well, who subsidize the rest. Stuff like guild raffles and auctions can raise a lot of money for the guild. This is what you get when Guild Leadership is lazy, and doesn't want to run events to get people engaged.

Sustained 360 a week is entirely doable if you're doing a lot of mat farming. But, that would be how you spent your week. Not fun.

Completely stopped developing any casual content at all in SWL. The few new gameplay modes that have come out are intended solely for the few remaining hardcore cabals. There's tons of us story hounds waiting in the wings for an end to the Morninglight arc, but it's never going to happen

I can't imagine gathering that many mats-- how long would you have to spend farming to hit those figures?

Ugh, TSW/SWL has been a "Super Hardcore or GTFO" trainwreck since Joel Bylos took the reigns. It's a shame because there isn't another urban fantasy MMO. There's precious few Urban Fantasy video games in general. But, yeah... ugh.

Anyway, for 360k, you'd need about 45 gold mats. That works to about 2,250 raw mats. I think @Inklings would put the number a little lower, maybe only 1,500. He's the refinement expert, I've only kinda kept track. Split the difference, say 2k mats, so, roughly 570 mat collections.

So, yeah, something like six hundred materials collected each week. It's doable, but, like I said, that would not be fun. I'm guesstimating here, but figure probably about 10-15 hours each week just going out and hoovering up any unattended materials.

Also, if you're doing your writs, your survey pickups would contribute significantly towards that pool, but, again, we're starting to trend into the range of treating this like it's a second job.

Those numbers are a little high, because you would get other stuff, including the refined mats, that you could sell, to help bring up the numbers, but we're still talking about a lot of harvesting.

ForzaRammer

Time to get a new guild then. When lucian has 15k combined contribution requirements, why bother with a guild with 15k due unless it’s one get a trader in mournhold every week.

There is 10k combined contribution ones in wayrest/vivec.

You can prolly find 5k ones in rimmen/alinor.

zyk

You're wrong about the location. You just need to price your items a *little* less when selling in a suboptimal location and deal hunters will find them via ttc. That's a fair tradeoff for paying less in dues.

VelimOrthic

Loves_guars wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

What system you on where they’re asking that much? 65k is ridiculous to begin with. I’m in a couple trading giilds on PS4 NA and they’re asking 15-20k weekly.

casuals get excluded from the system, when they should be included to shorten the breach between them and rich players.

You say "casual don't need main city trader" but actually yes, because in this way, the distance between poor and rich widens more and more.

You keep coming back to this point but never explaining it. I don't see a problem with someone unable to come up with 15k being excluded from Four zones. I'm sorry but it just sounds outright absurd to say what you seem to be saying.

Shouldn't you be getting ~300 x 6 characters x 7 days = 12,600 just from turning in writs alone? Or is my math way off.

Either way, players in capital guilds want to be highly competitive because they find that fun. It doesn't sound like you've got this quality. If I ran one of those guilds, I wouldn't see any reason why I should let you waste that roster space.

Essavias

360k is insane, what platform is this? On PC EU the top trading guild is asking 150k weekly in Belkarth. Steady Mournhold and Vivec ones - up to 50k. I'm in a front row Vivec guild that requires 10k donation with no limit. Literally any other location besides those 3 is way, way cheaper - up to 20-30k sales/5k fee.

Although a guild I was in before (also Vivec), decided that in addition to 50k min - you'd also pay a 5k fee if you don't make 500k weekly. Left since these numbers don't make a grain of sense.

Jaraal

Some of the guilds I'm in have dues or sales requirements, some don't. But I don't worry about the numbers, I deposit an equal amount of gold to each guild each week that I feel is pulling my weight and helping to secure a trader each week. If they become dissatisfied with my contributions at some point, they can kick me as they see fit.

It's a two way street, really. There are a lot of players who think just their presence in a guild is enough, and they may or may not put some goods for sale on the trader that magically appears for them every week. Conversely, there are also guild leaders who post pages and pages of rules and requirements and minimum participation fees, and yet they don't recruit and think that 150 people in a guild should somehow be able to afford a top trading spot and are constantly threatened if they don't toe the line..... even though they go about half the time without the GL even securing a trader, and then you have to buy a certain amount from the other 149 traders or you are threatened to be kicked. And you have to join and be in Discord, even though there's never been a raid in years, etc, etc.

Bottom line is, there are a lot of different types of guilds out there. If you're not happy with whatever they require of you, move on and find a better fit for yourself.

starkerealm

VelimOrthic wrote: »

Loves_guars wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

What system you on where they’re asking that much? 65k is ridiculous to begin with. I’m in a couple trading giilds on PS4 NA and they’re asking 15-20k weekly.

casuals get excluded from the system, when they should be included to shorten the breach between them and rich players.

You say "casual don't need main city trader" but actually yes, because in this way, the distance between poor and rich widens more and more.

You keep coming back to this point but never explaining it. I don't see a problem with someone unable to come up with 15k being excluded from Four zones. I'm sorry but it just sounds outright absurd to say what you seem to be saying.

Shouldn't you be getting ~300 x 6 characters x 7 days = 12,600 just from turning in writs alone? Or is my math way off.

Either way, players in capital guilds want to be highly competitive because they find that fun. It doesn't sound like you've got this quality. If I ran one of those guilds, I wouldn't see any reason why I should let you waste that roster space.

Six characters doing writs should return 27.6k per day (roughly).

bmnoble

Never liked sales targets, I have always preferred guilds that allow you to pay x amount each week in dues/raffle tickets if your not planning to sell that week or don't expect to sell much.

All the guilds I am in have a min amount you need to contribute each week through raffle tickets/winning auction bids/sales tax (more often than not most guilds a generous when it comes to sales tax, by counting the full amount against your weekly dues instead of the half they actually get)


15K a week seem a bit much, unless your in an Alliance capital or Rawl'Kha each week, anywhere else it should be around the 5K - 10K mark at most.

Anything above the minimum is up to the individual player, provided your guild maintains a good location a lot of the top sellers will generally contribute more per week than most, to make sure they maintain that location, most of the time they will more than make up for the causal sellers in a guild.

spartaxoxo

starkerealm wrote: »

Loves_guars wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

What system you on where they’re asking that much? 65k is ridiculous to begin with. I’m in a couple trading giilds on PS4 NA and they’re asking 15-20k weekly.

Yes sorry, I meant 15k dues, (360k sales without dues). I know it's not much for rich players, but my point is that casuals get excluded from the system, when they should be included to shorten the breach between them and rich players.

To answer everyone, same, I think this is nonsensical, in the way that you need weekly money to stay competitive. You say "casual don't need main city trader" but actually yes, because in this way, the distance between poor and rich widens more and more.

No, fifteen a week is ridiculous. Unless you're in someplace like Mournhold, Wayrest, or Rawl'Kha, that's completely unreasonable.

The three-sixty a week in sales is also bonkers. I know it's doable, but that's not a trading guild that wants casual players.

My advice? Find a different guild. I think @Siohwenoeht is correct, and the guild's membership bolted. At that point the smart thing would be to live off of savings while rebuilding the guild, but instead they've decided to squeeze the members. Get out. If you need a guild to land in, let us know what your platform/server is, and someone's got invite privileges to a better guild for you.

15k a week is just like 3-4 crafting writ dailies a week. It's steep but not absurd. The guild I'm in charges 20k.

GrimTheReaper45

ya this whole multi bid situation sucks. Im a co-gm of a trader guild. We were doing really well as a donation based family type guild. The other gm, officers and I were busting our butt farming stuff for raffles everyweek but what we got at the end was enough to get a stall in a decent spot.

Unfortunately its just not enough anymore. It sucks for the members and it sucks for us officers but we have had to go to 15k a week and be really serious about not letting players miss a week. We dont like or want to be jerks about it but even with all the changes and adjustments weve made its like 2 of 3 of the last weeks we havent had a trader. Even though we have considerably more than we were pulling in before the change.

starkerealm

spartaxoxo wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Loves_guars wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

What system you on where they’re asking that much? 65k is ridiculous to begin with. I’m in a couple trading giilds on PS4 NA and they’re asking 15-20k weekly.

Yes sorry, I meant 15k dues, (360k sales without dues). I know it's not much for rich players, but my point is that casuals get excluded from the system, when they should be included to shorten the breach between them and rich players.

To answer everyone, same, I think this is nonsensical, in the way that you need weekly money to stay competitive. You say "casual don't need main city trader" but actually yes, because in this way, the distance between poor and rich widens more and more.

No, fifteen a week is ridiculous. Unless you're in someplace like Mournhold, Wayrest, or Rawl'Kha, that's completely unreasonable.

The three-sixty a week in sales is also bonkers. I know it's doable, but that's not a trading guild that wants casual players.

My advice? Find a different guild. I think @Siohwenoeht is correct, and the guild's membership bolted. At that point the smart thing would be to live off of savings while rebuilding the guild, but instead they've decided to squeeze the members. Get out. If you need a guild to land in, let us know what your platform/server is, and someone's got invite privileges to a better guild for you.

15k a week is just like 3-4 crafting writ dailies a week. It's steep but not absurd. The guild I'm in charges 20k.

Yeah, financially, I wouldn't have a problem spending that. Just, that would have to be a hell of a location to justify the expense.