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Guild dues just skyrocketed
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Dracofyre✭✭✭✭i dont like seperated merchants, lot of time sinking looking for specific items, going from town to town, zones to zone checking is really bad, i dont understand addons for search format and locations.
would be nice if we had universal, not going to happen, other players see this huge nerf to selling stuffs.3 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Not all of them require fees, but more and more guilds are implementing fees and tbh: I'm not surprised.
When I've been following how domino effect is bouncing guilds back and forth, it's been just question of time when guilds will do something about it. Guilds just adapt different ways, depending what they see reasonable for their guild.
And about those sale requirements (360 K weekly) which OP mentioned, those could be absurd numbers in PC EU server, but I don't think that OP is talking about PC EU guild, so I won't comment about requirements of different platform which got different guilds, prices and market circumstances.
Well, as I mentioned on another thread, I'm currently in 4 guilds (on PCEU) that don't charge fees/have a min sales target.
However, sales are extremely slow at the moment and prices are low (I think for everyone) and one of the guilds has just sent us all a mail saying that unless more people can sell and/or donate, they might have to consider dropping the guild trader.
This is also due to the new multi-bid system, meaning they have to pay more for their trader than they used to.
I'm hoping sales and prices pick up, with the new content and also, that people realise that they are overbidding on traders, at the moment.
They simply aren't worth the amount people are spending on them, as far as I can see.
Logic would say that bid amounts will lower, with time (as people realise the various traders' true worth), but that isn't always the case in these games.
Sometimes, however illogical it is to overpay for something, people don't seem to understand that.1 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »[Quoted post has been removed.]
@Tandor, you write well, you often express sensible points of view, and opinions, and I often agree with you - and even when I don't, I still respect you because you're pleasant to read and you make sense.
I was literally stunned when I realized that the above statement "Guess where that comes from, if not from inflated prices!" came from you.
@starkerealm may have started his post in a risky way but he's genuine, and he's right. There's something fundamental that you haven't understood (and that's a fact, not an opinion) and he really took the time to explain it nicely and in details. There's nothing condescending in that.
Would you please consider reading his post ... ?
Thanks. I can tell you where my comment came from. If traders have to pay inflated bids and dues, then that will be reflected in the prices they charge. An inflated trading gold sink is funded out of inflated prices, that was my point.
No, not necessarily, because the people listing on the trader are (mostly) not the guild leader themselves.
If it was a shop, with one owner who paid the rent, bought the goods to sell and then priced them up, then of course his/her prices would have to reflect the price of the rent (if it was high).
However, if it is basically a mini auction house, where most people selling in it are not affected by the higher bid amount (and/or don't really understand basic economics), that will not necessarily be the case.
If guild fees/sales mins go up, as a result, it might encourage people to list their stuff at higher prices, to try to outweigh that, but if the items don't sell at that amount, as there simply isn't the demand, prices will fall again.
Really, the only way to ensure prices went up, would be to force most sellers out of the market, thus limiting supply.
However, removing most people's ability to sell their stuff would, obviously, not be good for the game as a whole and would probably lead to people leaving.Edited by Tigerseye on October 17, 2019 6:46AM6 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »[Quoted post has been removed.]
@Tandor, you write well, you often express sensible points of view, and opinions, and I often agree with you - and even when I don't, I still respect you because you're pleasant to read and you make sense.
I was literally stunned when I realized that the above statement "Guess where that comes from, if not from inflated prices!" came from you.
@starkerealm may have started his post in a risky way but he's genuine, and he's right. There's something fundamental that you haven't understood (and that's a fact, not an opinion) and he really took the time to explain it nicely and in details. There's nothing condescending in that.
Would you please consider reading his post ... ?
Thanks. I can tell you where my comment came from. If traders have to pay inflated bids and dues, then that will be reflected in the prices they charge. An inflated trading gold sink is funded out of inflated prices, that was my point.
No, not necessarily, because the people listing on the trader are (mostly) not the trader themselves.
If it was a shop, with one owner who paid the rent, bought the goods to sell and then priced them up, then of course his/her prices would have to reflect the price of the rent (if it was high).
However, if it is basically a mini auction house, where most people selling in it are not affected by the higher bid amount, that will not necessarily be the case.
If guild fees/mins go up, as a result, it might encourage people to list their stuff at higher prices, to try to outweigh that, but if they don't sell at that amount, as there simply isn't the demand, they won't sell and prices will fall again.
Really, the only way to ensure prices went up, would be to force most sellers out of the market, thus limiting supply.
However, removing most people's ability to sell their stuff would, obviously, not be good for the game as a whole and would probably lead to people leaving.
The irony is, bids going up usually encourage the opposite. They push players to sell more at lower prices to make their quotas. If I need to move 80k in the next 12 hours, and I have a motif worth 100k, I'm going to list it down. If I don't need to worry about moving it at all, I might stick it out there at 110-120k and just let it hang for a couple weeks to see if there's a bite. (There usually is.)4 -
HappyLittleTree✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the guild sucks just leave?
Thuu chakkuth lod Hajhiit c’oo? Hajhiit gortsuquth gorihuth thuu gooluthduj thdeitoluu!
XBox-EU1 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bottom line (and putting useless semantics aside) is that if guild dues go up due to the guild needing more money to secure a spot and the player limit in guilds remains fixed at 500 people, then the members in that particular guild will have to pay more gold, or the guild leaders (as some sadly do now) will exchange crowns for gold (which should NOT even be a thing to start with).
Potential ways a member may go about to increase their wealth so that they can pay higher guild requirements:- ]Listed prices may go up.
- Players will have to spend more time doing mundane work (Farming), vs playing the game. This may have a net result of the player leaving ESO.
- Players may be exchanging crowns for gold to make up for the gold loss (which appears to be exactly what ZO$ is going for)
I am sure their are more, I simply use these examples to illustrate what can and will happen.
Its a bad situation across the board. Never mind the trickle down effect of losing a spot that pushes the next guy down, that pushes the next guy down.
Global AH FTW.
On PCEU, listed prices are going down for things like motifs and furnishing plans; not up.
So, fees/min sales amounts are being introduced/increased and/or some guilds are threatening to drop their traders and this cannot, currently, be mitigated by prices, at all.
Just have to hope it settles down, soon, I guess.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bottom line (and putting useless semantics aside) is that if guild dues go up due to the guild needing more money to secure a spot and the player limit in guilds remains fixed at 500 people, then the members in that particular guild will have to pay more gold, or the guild leaders (as some sadly do now) will exchange crowns for gold (which should NOT even be a thing to start with).
Potential ways a member may go about to increase their wealth so that they can pay higher guild requirements:- ]Listed prices may go up.
- Players will have to spend more time doing mundane work (Farming), vs playing the game. This may have a net result of the player leaving ESO.
- Players may be exchanging crowns for gold to make up for the gold loss (which appears to be exactly what ZO$ is going for)
I am sure their are more, I simply use these examples to illustrate what can and will happen.
Its a bad situation across the board. Never mind the trickle down effect of losing a spot that pushes the next guy down, that pushes the next guy down.
Global AH FTW.
On PCEU, listed prices are going down for things like motifs and furnishing plans; not up.
So, fees/min sales amounts are being introduced/increased and/or some guilds are threatening to drop their traders and this cannot, currently, be mitigated by prices, at all.
Just have to hope it settles down, soon, I guess.
It can't be mitigated by raising prices.
You need to lower prices and increase volume.
It is a little vicious because it will force players to farm more heavily. If they're in a good position right now with a reserve of desirable goodies, they'll weather this. If they're living hand to sales quota, it could be rough.3 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭unclesheosnephew wrote: »664x7=4648 4648x16=74368 74368x30=2,231,040 Thats just the gold from daily quest turn ins on crafting dailies. Take about 1h 30m to do my characters. your making 836640g from them monthly and your worried about 60k?
You realise most people don't have 16 crafters and most people don't want to spend 1h 30mins per day, every day, doing writs?
...and even if they did, what would be the point (once you were already rich) in then paying a lot to sell stuff, unless you were guaranteed to make far more back than you spent?Edited by Tigerseye on October 17, 2019 7:10AM5 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭unclesheosnephew wrote: »664x7=4648 4648x16=74368 74368x30=2,231,040 Thats just the gold from daily quest turn ins on crafting dailies. Take about 1h 30m to do my characters. your making 836640g from them monthly and your worried about 60k?
You realise most people don't have 16 crafters and most people don't want to spend 1h 30mins per day, every day, doing writs?
*has 18* *Takes 30-45m to do all their writs* *backs away quietly*4 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »unclesheosnephew wrote: »664x7=4648 4648x16=74368 74368x30=2,231,040 Thats just the gold from daily quest turn ins on crafting dailies. Take about 1h 30m to do my characters. your making 836640g from them monthly and your worried about 60k?
You realise most people don't have 16 crafters and most people don't want to spend 1h 30mins per day, every day, doing writs?
*has 18* *Takes 30-45m to do all their writs* *backs away quietly*
^ because uses an addon that automates many of the processes in crafting.0 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
Forums are an extension of the game, they are very much a product of what is happening in game.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
Forums are an extension of the game, they are very much a product of what is happening in game.
Cool, but the tail doesn't wag the dog.4 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Forums are an extension of the game, they are very much a product of what is happening in game.
Cool, but the tail doesn't wag the dog.
That is technically incorrect. The small amount of mass that the tail has in fact influences the wag of the dog. In terms you might understand its the same as the pull of gravity the earth has on the sun, its small but its there.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Forums are an extension of the game, they are very much a product of what is happening in game.
Cool, but the tail doesn't wag the dog.
That is technically incorrect.
It is, however, an accepted idiom.4 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Forums are an extension of the game, they are very much a product of what is happening in game.
Cool, but the tail doesn't wag the dog.
That is technically incorrect.
It is, however, an accepted idiom.
It's also accepted that ZO$$$$$ is doing a terrible job at maintaining this game. Even many of the popular streamers are looking for other MMO's to invest into.4 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Forums are an extension of the game, they are very much a product of what is happening in game.
Cool, but the tail doesn't wag the dog.
That is technically incorrect.
It is, however, an accepted idiom.
It's also accepted that ZO$$$$$ is doing a terrible job at maintaining this game.
No.Edited by starkerealm on October 17, 2019 7:37AM2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Forums are an extension of the game, they are very much a product of what is happening in game.
Cool, but the tail doesn't wag the dog.
That is technically incorrect.
It is, however, an accepted idiom.
It's also accepted that ZO$$$$$ is doing a terrible job at maintaining this game.
No.
No is not an argument. But thanks for playing.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Forums are an extension of the game, they are very much a product of what is happening in game.
Cool, but the tail doesn't wag the dog.
That is technically incorrect.
It is, however, an accepted idiom.
It's also accepted that ZO$$$$$ is doing a terrible job at maintaining this game.
No.
No is not an argument. But thanks for playing.
You're saying, "it's accepted," it's not. That's not a very high bar to beat.1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Forums are an extension of the game, they are very much a product of what is happening in game.
Cool, but the tail doesn't wag the dog.
That is technically incorrect.
It is, however, an accepted idiom.
It's also accepted that ZO$$$$$ is doing a terrible job at maintaining this game.
No.
No is not an argument. But thanks for playing.
You're saying, "it's accepted," it's not. That's not a very high bar to beat.
Actually its widely accepted, lol the fact that you deny that just makes me laugh. Your position is so transparent.
ESO on steam is down. ESO on Xbox is down, ESO on PS is down, and ESO on PC is down.
As I already pointed out, even the popular steamers are looking for alternative MMO's because they can see the writing on the wall.
I'd like for ESO to be a better game, I really would but it wont happen. ZO$ is doing to the Elder Scrolls franchise what Disney is doing to Star Wars.3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Forums are an extension of the game, they are very much a product of what is happening in game.
Cool, but the tail doesn't wag the dog.
That is technically incorrect.
It is, however, an accepted idiom.
It's also accepted that ZO$$$$$ is doing a terrible job at maintaining this game.
No.
No is not an argument. But thanks for playing.
You're saying, "it's accepted," it's not. That's not a very high bar to beat.
Actually its widely accepted, lol the fact that you deny that just makes me laugh. Your position is so transparent.
ESO on steam is down. ESO on Xbox is down, ESO on PS is down, and ESO on PC is down.
As I already pointed out, even the popular steamers are looking for alternative MMO's because they can see the writing on the wall.
I'd like for ESO to be a better game, I really would but it wont happen. ZO$ is doing to the Elder Scrolls franchise what Disney is doing to Star Wars.
6 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
And to answer your questioning more directly :
There are currently four ways the higher trader bids can be financed :
- Gold piles / Saved gold (either by guilds or guild members via donations)
- More farming - gold creation
- Crown selling (IRL currency => gold conversion)
- Increased prices of goods sold ingame.
What I meant is increased prices is only one of several (imho 4, as listed above) sources of financing of high trader bids, and probably the less significant, since you cannot impose prices onto customers (as explained in my previous post).
But ONLY ONE of those 4 is long-term sustainable for any business model: increased prices on goods.
All the other options are net loss to the trade guild in terms of time, reserves or real money.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
And to answer your questioning more directly :
There are currently four ways the higher trader bids can be financed :
- Gold piles / Saved gold (either by guilds or guild members via donations)
- More farming - gold creation
- Crown selling (IRL currency => gold conversion)
- Increased prices of goods sold ingame.
What I meant is increased prices is only one of several (imho 4, as listed above) sources of financing of high trader bids, and probably the less significant, since you cannot impose prices onto customers (as explained in my previous post).
But ONLY ONE of those 4 is long-term sustainable for any business model: increased prices on goods.
All the other options are net loss to the trade guild in terms of time, reserves or real money.
That's why I said "currently".
That being said, considering the long-term : only the first of those (saved up gold) cannot last forever and will dry out eventually. All 3 other can actually last forever : there's no limit to farming more or to crown selling. Increase of prices of goods are partially limited by the market's acceptance.
Also, don't forget that the trader bids are not fixed rent amounts, they're auctioned. Which means that, in the long term, they can (and imho will) be lowered as part of the equation.
0 -
Heatnix90✭✭✭✭✭
✭unclesheosnephew wrote: »664x7=4648 4648x16=74368 74368x30=2,231,040 Thats just the gold from daily quest turn ins on crafting dailies. Take about 1h 30m to do my characters. your making 836640g from them monthly and your worried about 60k?
Now subtract repairs, materials for consumables, material cost to do the crafting, bank space, character space, riding lessons, and all the other tiny little gold sinks in game.
For those who only play to craft. Sure, its easy. But for those who play to do the actual fun stuff in game (imo), its not so easy.
Define "fun" because most of the fun stuff in the game (trials/pvp) usually hand out rewards which can be turned around and sold. Daily quests are also pretty easy to make money off of if you do the right ones. And LOL @ including costs of repairs when you can easily offset that by using the repair kits that you get from doing writs.2 -
Palidon✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you are in a trade guild that has high requirements find a trade guild that doesn't. You can blame the high dues on ZOS for implementing the new trader bid system. I got sick and tired of having to sell X amount of items or pay X amount per week in dues. I went to another trade guild who's only requirement is 5 days inactivity. Sure it does not have a high density trader spot but, Guess what I am still selling stuff. I sell my stuff cheep. I got the item for free so anything I make is 100% profit.
Many players access Tamriel Trade Center on the net. I lists all items being sold and the price also where the item is located. It has a search engine so finding what you are looking for and the cheapest price on the item is easy.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
Find me a trade guild discord where people actually like the new bidding system. It's become a huge headache for GMs, and a pain point for members as they see their dues go up and their guilds lose traders.Edited by MLGProPlayer on October 17, 2019 10:56PM3 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭wow...most people who came here to comment have no idea what real trading is
pls go back digging out rocks and sell them to the market...let the big bois handle the world finances so you can afford to buy your petty wax. 2
This discussion has been closed.