I seriously doubt Zos would entertain adding/changing to an AH or central trader. The trading system is basically something they really wanted when they developed the game. They touted it before the game launched and my bet is it is the pet project of at least one of the devs. Pretty sure as long as Matt is at the helm an AH will not happen.
The trader system was introduced in UD3, so it was not what was envisioned when they devolved the game.
What they had prior was Guild Stores. Which only guild members could access. That was the unique system they touted. People did not like it and then they did the traders in UD3. Still was not what people wanted.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/1105 That is the link to the v1.3.3 patch notes
The only thing to come out of a global auction house is 40k+ gold tempering alloys/wax/rosin (or higher) per piece.
Oh and pages upon pages of people listing their items one by one for 1 gold less than 'market value' so their name and items can show up first in searches.
And yes, some people will completely and utterly control the market on specific items. Going as far as standing around All day and night hitting refresh on the terminal to buy up and relist w/e items they've chosen to control.
All this garbage happened in SWTOR and it was awful.
The current system is far better than a global auction house. Anyone no matter how new or bad at trading can make money very easily and finding amazing deals is also quite easy if you put in a tiny bit of effort. You won't find amazing deals on anything with a GAH cause they will vanish moments after being listed.
.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »tahol10069 wrote: »
You are just projecting.
And what are YOU doing, if not projecting, and projecting ONLY ?
The only factual truth known after all those countless AH-threads is that there's a rough 50/50 split between pro- and anti-AH.
So no, it's NOT "the few rich" against "the many poor".
The "economy" arguments brought up by both sides roughly counter and contradict each other with no clear "winner".
The "other games" arguments brought up by both sides also cancel each other since noone seems to agree as to what "works" and "doesn't work" in other games.
The difference is mainly perception. The guild trader system is perceived as "fun and part of the game" by the anti-AH and as "inconvenient" by the pro-AH. Flipping is considered gaming by some, and swindling by others. Trading guilds are considered a socialization asset by some, and a barrier to entry by others.
These topics popping up on a regular basis don't prove that the current system is flawed, it only shows that players' opinions are still split about it.
I'd like people on both sides (I am personally on the anti-AH side) to acknowledge that their arguments are all subjective and STOP calling them FACTS, and also STOP calling the other side corrupt, predators or idiots.
Half of the players like or even love this system, the other half dislike or even hate it. That's a matter of taste and of how we like to play. That's all there's to it, really.
Us here on the forums is such a small part of the ESO community. I keep saying they only way ZOS will get a closer view of the ESO Communities opinion is to do a survey on the login rewards screen quarterly. Get to know what the people that play the game think. This is not for just this subject but for anything TESO related.
True. However, some things Zos should not be so concerned about opinion. If they wanted this type of trading system (and they stated they did) and they feel it is working well based on in game measurements then there is no reason to even consider replacing the model.
starkerealm wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »Ahhhh, the AH vs Trader discussion...... Again.
So let's review a few things....
1. Gold Sink- Can a AH take out 200 Million+ gold out of the system a week? To keep a viable economy there has to be a large gold sink as this.
You have to have a reason for gold to be spent such as item breakage, repairs and replacement. Change the repair kit drop rate to be more rare, thus more valuable. Change items to decrease in function at 75%, 50% and 25%, by like amounts instead of 100% until zero. Makes people more likely to repair often, increases the sink.
Breakage drives the economy by giving reasons to spend gold. Static ownership of an item until you leave the game does little to transfer wealth that is need for a vibrant economy. Before you throw a fit, trial and veteran gear need to be bis and exempt from breakage. Those folks put in a lot of work for that right.wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »
3. The Elephant in the Room- WoW is made up of "Shards" or separate servers. ESO has a MegaServer, no shards.
SO, a AH in ESO would be, open up AH UI and have literally millions of items trying to load. Think lag is bad now?
ESO did a Megaserver as to NOT be like WoW and other MMO's. Same with traders. ZoS has from start tried to make ESO unique and not a copy paste of other games.
Tell this to CCP with Eve Onlive. A mega server that handles a AH, has repair needs,. Cornering a market is much harder than you make it out to be, so many more factors involved. It's more of a boogie man for the anti-AH crowd.
btw ESO is also a shard system as it creates different instances of zones and delves. In beta you could see how many were active, how many people was in yours and was able to change your instance. GM's actually told you how to do this when missions crashed or no respawn of bosses. It was about 50 per instance, which when grouping you could exceed that number. PVP is not instanced but they are also trying to run it with about 15 times the number of people that the system was designed to handle.
many things can be fixed in ESO but you have to be willing to compromise.
2. EVE online? You mean the game based on AH manipulation, guilds stealing and strong arm trader tactics? Cornering a market is very easy, it's not a boogie man.
It was stated that there is no game that is a mega server and has a Single Market system. That having such would cause tremendous lag.
I was pointing out that there is a game made this way and they do not have a problem with it causing lag. They also handle loads larger than what ESO does pretty well. It's not until players manipulate the system to bypass caps that issues start occurring.
The entire reason EVE has a time dilation system is because the servers can't handle PvP on a large scale.
MLGProPlayer wrote: »A central AH is a win-win for everyone. There is literally no drawback to it.
Five thousand threads on this topic and you still have the gall to make that claim. The reason the guild trader system exists in the first place is because AHs are full of drawbacks that ZoS was trying to get away from.
Name one ESO auction system that works better than traditional auction house system (I refer to wow as an example).
There are none. The only thing the ESO auction house system does is introduce new issues, which is why people keep asking for a central AH system every few months.
The ESO system benefits few, central benefits all.
There are none because ESO doesn't have an auction system. It has a far superior guild trader system. Even those of you whining for an AH just like every other MMO since WoW are benefiting from it. Lower inflation, fewer and shorter lived monopolies, far fewer undercut wars, the ability to sell your items for fair market value rather than being forced to sell at the lowest possible price, the ability to buy items at a fair price rather than being forced to pay exorbitant sums, etc. etc. This nonsense that it's only a handful of people, probably part of some secret cartel, who benefit from the guild trader system is complete BS.
There is absolutely ZERO about the ESO system that makes it superior to WOW's auction house system. This system is OVERLY inflated due to its design. It does not allow for competition.
I constantly undercut people in wow, drove prices down and made a good amount of money, more than I can make in this game unless I play just to make money. ESO's system is a joke.
I knew it. You were part of the problem and you dislike not being able to use the same tactics (if you can even call it that) that you used in WoW to make a bunch of money in ESO. You can't just mindlessly undercut everybody in the world every time you go to sell something and you're upset that you have to actually price your items now.
As for disallowing competition, that is utter ***. If one guild tends to have better prices and more selection than another, guess which one I'm more likely to frequent? The only "competition" WoW style AHs have is who can race to the bottom the fastest, only to one day be completely bought out by someone, likely a gold seller, trying to corner the market, which he can very easily do.
Incorrect.
Even the richest people in wow can not corner the market on any desirable good, there are too many people contributing to the sales.
I am not part of the problem, I am part of the solution just like everyone else who voices their discontent with terrible design and or practices being done in this product that we paid and pay for monthly.
ESO's system with the use of addons or TTC is INFINITELY worse at controlling the market than wow's ever was. Heck some of the guild traders are in league with each other and run multiple kiosks.
The only people I have ever come across in this game who champion this system are the stupidly rich in the guild traders, and people like you on the forums. Every average player I know at first gives the system a chance, but soon realizes the huge pitfalls with ESO's system.
No, he is actually very correct. I have play WoW and can confirm that the central AH isn't anywhere near as good of a system.
No, he is incorrect. I have played wow since 2004 (and have an active sub as of this very second, and play it). The wow AH is infinitely better for the community as a whole. The ESO system is good at keeping gold out of the average players hands which leads them to the crown store to spend even more money a month, even on top of a 15 dollar sub.
Indeed, if you have only guilds with a bad mentality (hight taxes, stupid rules, getting kicked at a whim), you are left with a cartell of bad people gathering the most amount of money. Look at real life, does anyone really want that?
I am in a trade guild in a notable location that has one simple requirement, to sell. It is a rather simple and logical rule and have not seen anyone get kicked on a whim. Have seem people behaving stupidly get kicked but that also makes sense. I am also in a couple PvE guilds that get often have a trader at a secondary type location. I often post in those and still sell pretty good. It is free as well.
Notable location, at current NPC prices? Makes me curious where it is...seems almost unbelieveable. But if true, good for you. Anyway, it would be still better to be an the safe side, before all NPC's are taken over by not so nice people. Anyway, you could still agree to the global AH option too, unless you don't want to give up on a monopoly...
Repeating this statement doesn't make it true, it only makes you seem inexperienced with trading in ESO. You're on PC, where it is incredibly easy to participate in the market. Now that we have a guild finder, joining a trade guild with a kiosk is trivial, and THAT is the hardest part of selling. Many guilds don't have minimum sales or fees, and those that do are not difficult to meet if you're selling enough items to need membership in a big name guild in the first place.Again: The system we have now allows for monopoly of trading to a few guilds
Repeating this statement doesn't make it true, it only makes you seem inexperienced with trading in ESO. You're on PC, where it is incredibly easy to participate in the market. Now that we have a guild finder, joining a trade guild with a kiosk is trivial, and THAT is the hardest part of selling. Many guilds don't have minimum sales or fees, and those that do are not difficult to meet if you're selling enough items to need membership in a big name guild in the first place.Again: The system we have now allows for monopoly of trading to a few guilds
Repeating this statement doesn't make it true, it only makes you seem inexperienced with trading in ESO. You're on PC, where it is incredibly easy to participate in the market. Now that we have a guild finder, joining a trade guild with a kiosk is trivial, and THAT is the hardest part of selling. Many guilds don't have minimum sales or fees, and those that do are not difficult to meet if you're selling enough items to need membership in a big name guild in the first place.Again: The system we have now allows for monopoly of trading to a few guilds
Correct. This notion that you can't find trading guilds and sell your wares is ridiculous. "Monopoly" LOL, it's called an economy and things ebb and flow with demand. I'm in three trade guilds, two of them are prime location ones and my third sells just as much of my stuff as the other two regularly.
wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
No, it's not. It is a means to save time for those who do want to play actual game content (and ESO's system is horrible at this primary function of a trading system).
EDIT: besides, regardless of your opinion on that topic it doesn't change the fact that there is absolutely no reason to interact with people in a trading guild if you ever do content harder than normal non-dlc dungeons, and the guy I was replying to is full of ***.
Yes, it is.
Believe it or not, "The Trade Game" is the game many play. Just like RP'rs.
Before Guild Traders were added, people would spend hours in the capitol cities just buying and selling stuff.
Just because you don't see Trading as a aspect of the game, it is, and has been since launch.
As far as interaction, I am in a few PC/NA trade guilds. They have housing parties, auctions that are a fun time, hide and seek events, theory crafting meetings, and yes run delvs and such. Your experience of "Sociability" of trade guilds is not the norm.
The only thing to come out of a global auction house is 40k+ gold tempering alloys/wax/rosin (or higher) per piece.
Oh and pages upon pages of people listing their items one by one for 1 gold less than 'market value' so their name and items can show up first in searches.
And yes, some people will completely and utterly control the market on specific items. Going as far as standing around All day and night hitting refresh on the terminal to buy up and relist w/e items they've chosen to control.
All this garbage happened in SWTOR and it was awful.
The current system is far better than a global auction house. Anyone no matter how new or bad at trading can make money very easily and finding amazing deals is also quite easy if you put in a tiny bit of effort. You won't find amazing deals on anything with a GAH cause they will vanish moments after being listed.
You could say that bad people can also do bad stuff with the current system, where people also hit refresh all the time etc, just with a few more ways to go than just one spot. Again: The system we have now allows for monopoly of trading to a few guilds, just as bad as the assumption of the worst case cenario described by SWTOR. But still, people don't seem to have as much a problem with this...
As i said before, seems really just an attempt to hold on to a monopoly here with those excuses.
stpdmonkey wrote: »An auction house would be nice. But as zos has put it they use guild traders to remove gold from the game. Especially since now you can buy gold with crowns in a sense. It has given real world worth to in game gold. So a trader going for 20mil removes a lot of gold. If their main reasoning is to remove gold then make an auction house system but charge guilds a weekly fee to be able to use and allow to post in the auction house. This would both solve the traders issue and still remove gold like they want. Possibly even more due to the unlimited number of guilds that could be involved.
stpdmonkey wrote: »An auction house would be nice. But as zos has put it they use guild traders to remove gold from the game. Especially since now you can buy gold with crowns in a sense. It has given real world worth to in game gold. So a trader going for 20mil removes a lot of gold. If their main reasoning is to remove gold then make an auction house system but charge guilds a weekly fee to be able to use and allow to post in the auction house. This would both solve the traders issue and still remove gold like they want. Possibly even more due to the unlimited number of guilds that could be involved.
Rave the Histborn wrote: »wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
No, it's not. It is a means to save time for those who do want to play actual game content (and ESO's system is horrible at this primary function of a trading system).
EDIT: besides, regardless of your opinion on that topic it doesn't change the fact that there is absolutely no reason to interact with people in a trading guild if you ever do content harder than normal non-dlc dungeons, and the guy I was replying to is full of ***.
Yes, it is.
Believe it or not, "The Trade Game" is the game many play. Just like RP'rs.
Before Guild Traders were added, people would spend hours in the capitol cities just buying and selling stuff.
Just because you don't see Trading as a aspect of the game, it is, and has been since launch.
As far as interaction, I am in a few PC/NA trade guilds. They have housing parties, auctions that are a fun time, hide and seek events, theory crafting meetings, and yes run delvs and such. Your experience of "Sociability" of trade guilds is not the norm.
Guild traders and a central AH are just systems in a game. They are not content. Trading, Crafting, gathering, and RP and such are not content regardless of how much people enjoy participating in them or how much time they spend engaged in them. They are part of the game but far from meaningful content.
As for part of the reason Zos said they wanted trading to be guild based is they wanted a more social aspect to be part of it. Yes, they actually gave reasons why they chose this decentralized system. And yes, I to have seen people interacting in many ways in well run trading guilds so that part works as you are explaining. I have even seen top raiders part of discussions in guild chat.
Systems in the game are part of the game's content. RP is player created but trading crafting, and gathering are most certainly content. If they weren't content why was part of Summerset's selling point JEWELCRAFTING? Trading, crafting, and gathering are some of the most meaningful content in the game lol Just because you think storylines are the only "content" doesn't make you in charge of what content is. It is just as much content as combat is, or is combat not content because you have to learn damage rotations? You're wrong, take the L.
Not very meaningful content. It is certainly not why people come to a game or why they leave it. Well, if that is their reason for leaving a game then their is something wrong with the meaningful content part of the game to start with.
You've never played any survival games, have you. Even something like Minecraft.
starkerealm wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
No, it's not. It is a means to save time for those who do want to play actual game content (and ESO's system is horrible at this primary function of a trading system).
EDIT: besides, regardless of your opinion on that topic it doesn't change the fact that there is absolutely no reason to interact with people in a trading guild if you ever do content harder than normal non-dlc dungeons, and the guy I was replying to is full of ***.
Yes, it is.
Believe it or not, "The Trade Game" is the game many play. Just like RP'rs.
Before Guild Traders were added, people would spend hours in the capitol cities just buying and selling stuff.
Just because you don't see Trading as a aspect of the game, it is, and has been since launch.
As far as interaction, I am in a few PC/NA trade guilds. They have housing parties, auctions that are a fun time, hide and seek events, theory crafting meetings, and yes run delvs and such. Your experience of "Sociability" of trade guilds is not the norm.
Guild traders and a central AH are just systems in a game. They are not content. Trading, Crafting, gathering, and RP and such are not content regardless of how much people enjoy participating in them or how much time they spend engaged in them. They are part of the game but far from meaningful content.
As for part of the reason Zos said they wanted trading to be guild based is they wanted a more social aspect to be part of it. Yes, they actually gave reasons why they chose this decentralized system. And yes, I to have seen people interacting in many ways in well run trading guilds so that part works as you are explaining. I have even seen top raiders part of discussions in guild chat.
Systems in the game are part of the game's content. RP is player created but trading crafting, and gathering are most certainly content. If they weren't content why was part of Summerset's selling point JEWELCRAFTING? Trading, crafting, and gathering are some of the most meaningful content in the game lol Just because you think storylines are the only "content" doesn't make you in charge of what content is. It is just as much content as combat is, or is combat not content because you have to learn damage rotations? You're wrong, take the L.
Not very meaningful content. It is certainly not why people come to a game or why they leave it. Well, if that is their reason for leaving a game then their is something wrong with the meaningful content part of the game to start with.
You've never played any survival games, have you. Even something like Minecraft.
If you think ESO is like Minecraft, I don't think any of us can help you.
PvP focused games, particularly in the survival genre, the greatest threat to you is other players. You don't need a better gun in DayZ because of the zombies, you need it to deal with other players.
In something like Counterstrike, other players really are the primary content. The entire gameplay loop is attached to them.
In ESO, when you queue into a battleground, the other players are the content... and that's, pretty much, the only time this is true in ESO.
Even in Cyrodiil, where other players are what makes the zone interesting, there's a lot of content there. In the IC, other players are a vital component of tension, but they're not the content itself.
starkerealm wrote: »
starkerealm wrote: »
Ok. Not sure where that's coming from, but you're still wrong. Look into what "RP" means in "RPG".
stpdmonkey wrote: »An auction house would be nice. But as zos has put it they use guild traders to remove gold from the game. Especially since now you can buy gold with crowns in a sense. It has given real world worth to in game gold. So a trader going for 20mil removes a lot of gold. If their main reasoning is to remove gold then make an auction house system but charge guilds a weekly fee to be able to use and allow to post in the auction house. This would both solve the traders issue and still remove gold like they want. Possibly even more due to the unlimited number of guilds that could be involved.
Okay, so ZOS needs to allow only Guilds to do Delves, Dungeons, Trials, BG's and PvP but they have to bid on a spots with only a limited number available of each. The increased Gold Sinks will maintain the balance of economy in the game.
This is what you are asking of the Trade community. Equal application is fair. Let's limit the access to all these activities that generate gold from nothing. Trading is at least a transfer of wealth.
stpdmonkey wrote: »An auction house would be nice. But as zos has put it they use guild traders to remove gold from the game. Especially since now you can buy gold with crowns in a sense. It has given real world worth to in game gold. So a trader going for 20mil removes a lot of gold. If their main reasoning is to remove gold then make an auction house system but charge guilds a weekly fee to be able to use and allow to post in the auction house. This would both solve the traders issue and still remove gold like they want. Possibly even more due to the unlimited number of guilds that could be involved.
Okay, so ZOS needs to allow only Guilds to do Delves, Dungeons, Trials, BG's and PvP but they have to bid on a spots with only a limited number available of each. The increased Gold Sinks will maintain the balance of economy in the game.
This is what you are asking of the Trade community. Equal application is fair. Let's limit the access to all these activities that generate gold from nothing. Trading is at least a transfer of wealth.
No one is limited from trading. You can find and get an invite to a trade guild in literally less than 5 minutes if you ask in a busy zone.
Your suggestion is just rediculous
starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Ok. Not sure where that's coming from, but you're still wrong. Look into what "RP" means in "RPG".
Role-play, the act of taking and shaping a role in the world. Not, quite, the same thing as cybering in /emote chat, but, you know, you do you... just, please, take that to a private channel.
starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Ok. Not sure where that's coming from, but you're still wrong. Look into what "RP" means in "RPG".
Role-play, the act of taking and shaping a role in the world. Not, quite, the same thing as cybering in /emote chat, but, you know, you do you... just, please, take that to a private channel.
....uh huh. You know, I kind of feel like I just watched you do this:
Repeating this statement doesn't make it true, it only makes you seem inexperienced with trading in ESO. You're on PC, where it is incredibly easy to participate in the market. Now that we have a guild finder, joining a trade guild with a kiosk is trivial, and THAT is the hardest part of selling. Many guilds don't have minimum sales or fees, and those that do are not difficult to meet if you're selling enough items to need membership in a big name guild in the first place.Again: The system we have now allows for monopoly of trading to a few guilds
Repeating this statement doesn't make it true, it only makes you seem inexperienced with trading in ESO. You're on PC, where it is incredibly easy to participate in the market. Now that we have a guild finder, joining a trade guild with a kiosk is trivial, and THAT is the hardest part of selling. Many guilds don't have minimum sales or fees, and those that do are not difficult to meet if you're selling enough items to need membership in a big name guild in the first place.Again: The system we have now allows for monopoly of trading to a few guilds
Just as the claim, that a global auction house would be even worse, without giving more explanation why. I am just saying, that there could be both, but it is obvious that many here fear something...
Repeating this statement doesn't make it true, it only makes you seem inexperienced with trading in ESO. You're on PC, where it is incredibly easy to participate in the market. Now that we have a guild finder, joining a trade guild with a kiosk is trivial, and THAT is the hardest part of selling. Many guilds don't have minimum sales or fees, and those that do are not difficult to meet if you're selling enough items to need membership in a big name guild in the first place.Again: The system we have now allows for monopoly of trading to a few guilds
Just as the claim, that a global auction house would be even worse, without giving more explanation why. I am just saying, that there could be both, but it is obvious that many here fear something...