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Lets have an auction house please!!!
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Palidon✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think having a game wide auction house is a great idea. When the new trader bid system went live many trade guilds folded or the requirements to remain in an active trade guild tripled. Requirements like 50k in weekly sales or 15k guild deposit is why out of hand.
Tell you what establish a auction house system but let the trade guilds remain also. Lets see how long the trade guilds last. You will see a mass exodus from the trade guilds to the auction house game wide system.9 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭blueyonder wrote: »An auction house would ruin the game world economy and make the game less true to real life.
Ruin the economy?
Supporting evidence please.
Real world?
Sorry, but an AH would be far closer to real life given I can search for and price just about everything from my PC or even my phone, and have it delivered to my doorstep.
I do not schlep all over the country trying to find items in out of the way towns, and wondering if the price is reasonable.
The obvious would be the price of more common items would be driven down significantly buy the thousand postings all 1 gold less than the one before. Anyone who has played an MMORPG with a central trading system has seen that.
As for real world, does not matter.
Asa for evidence for those who have never played an MMORPG with a central trading system, it does not matter as the example I gave is essentially one of the reasons Zos gave for the guild trader system when this game was getting ready for launch and that is pretty much a trump card because they are not changing this trading system anytime soon.3 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭blueyonder wrote: »An auction house would ruin the game world economy and make the game less true to real life.
Ruin the economy?
Supporting evidence please.
Real world?
Sorry, but an AH would be far closer to real life given I can search for and price just about everything from my PC or even my phone, and have it delivered to my doorstep.
I do not schlep all over the country trying to find items in out of the way towns, and wondering if the price is reasonable.
So in your normal every day life do you go to different shops and look for different goods and bargains or do you and everyone you know head to an auction house to bid against each other for clothes, luxuries, and every day goods?1 -
cheeseaddict✭✭✭Ok, I think at this point the horse has been pulverized to the point where it no longer exists and we are just beating the barren soil that was underneath it.
and out of the ashes of a dead horse rises a phoenix to once again spread the specter of a AH in the land of zos just in time for all-hallows festival.......0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »blueyonder wrote: »An auction house would ruin the game world economy and make the game less true to real life.
Ruin the economy?
Supporting evidence please.
Real world?
Sorry, but an AH would be far closer to real life given I can search for and price just about everything from my PC or even my phone, and have it delivered to my doorstep.
I do not schlep all over the country trying to find items in out of the way towns, and wondering if the price is reasonable.
So in your normal every day life do you go to different shops and look for different goods and bargains or do you and everyone you know head to an auction house to bid against each other for clothes, luxuries, and every day goods?
Real world? Amazon tells them what they need. All they need to do is press Buy and wait for the truck to show up. Is it any wonder they want the same thing in their games?1 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think having a game wide auction house is a great idea. When the new trader bid system went live many trade guilds folded or the requirements to remain in an active trade guild tripled. Requirements like 50k in weekly sales or 15k guild deposit is why out of hand.
Tell you what establish a auction house system but let the trade guilds remain also. Lets see how long the trade guilds last. You will see a mass exodus from the trade guilds to the auction house game wide system.
You’d see trade guilds flop because the entire game economy would go up in flames
50k in sales a week isn’t unreasonable at all. Hell, you could just hop in a guild to sale, and then immediately leave once you’ve sold stuff, and pay nothing at all. It takes, at worst, five minutes to get into a trade guild.
I prefer the economy healthy, not bot-friendly, and lacking the extreme price polarization you see in every global AH system. It is currently, literally impossible for one person to bot the entire market. Anyone who claims otherwise is full of crap and they know it. With a GAH system, botters can absolutely park their machines and constantly undercut everybody by 1, until their botted materials are selling less than vendor and no one has any chance to make money off of their gathering.
Rarer items you can’t get at the drop of a hat, the dungeon motifs, the rare furnishing recipes, gold provisioning recipes, the BiS staves people complain about constantly. Monopolizing those items is just a matter of having the gold on hand at the time, because there is no travel time to buy up every single listing in a GAH system. Right now, it would take checking every single trader, having to get there before someone else sees the listing, and then hoping by the time they gathered them all up no one has posted more in the meantime.
There is no real positive to a “convenient” GAH system that isn’t immensely and immediately outweighed by the damage it will do to everyone.3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yes, you get it, an GAH is good for the buyers in most cases although expensive items would be even more expensive.I think having a game wide auction house is a great idea. When the new trader bid system went live many trade guilds folded or the requirements to remain in an active trade guild tripled. Requirements like 50k in weekly sales or 15k guild deposit is why out of hand.
Tell you what establish a auction house system but let the trade guilds remain also. Lets see how long the trade guilds last. You will see a mass exodus from the trade guilds to the auction house game wide system.
You’d see trade guilds flop because the entire game economy would go up in flames
50k in sales a week isn’t unreasonable at all. Hell, you could just hop in a guild to sale, and then immediately leave once you’ve sold stuff, and pay nothing at all. It takes, at worst, five minutes to get into a trade guild.
I prefer the economy healthy, not bot-friendly, and lacking the extreme price polarization you see in every global AH system. It is currently, literally impossible for one person to bot the entire market. Anyone who claims otherwise is full of crap and they know it. With a GAH system, botters can absolutely park their machines and constantly undercut everybody by 1, until their botted materials are selling less than vendor and no one has any chance to make money off of their gathering.
Rarer items you can’t get at the drop of a hat, the dungeon motifs, the rare furnishing recipes, gold provisioning recipes, the BiS staves people complain about constantly. Monopolizing those items is just a matter of having the gold on hand at the time, because there is no travel time to buy up every single listing in a GAH system. Right now, it would take checking every single trader, having to get there before someone else sees the listing, and then hoping by the time they gathered them all up no one has posted more in the meantime.
There is no real positive to a “convenient” GAH system that isn’t immensely and immediately outweighed by the damage it will do to everyone.
Prices will drop on everything else however and no bots is required.
As you say everybody will be underbidding each other. Yes they do this in WOW to but wow has hundreds of servers and two factions who don't share AH. ESO has 6 servers so this effect will be more than 10 times stronger, this without bots.
Part of that makes the ESO economy work is that you can not get the best deal, you just settle with an good enough. Also trying to sell to high then prices tend to go down will end
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Yes, you get it, an GAH is good for the buyers in most cases although expensive items would be even more expensive.I think having a game wide auction house is a great idea. When the new trader bid system went live many trade guilds folded or the requirements to remain in an active trade guild tripled. Requirements like 50k in weekly sales or 15k guild deposit is why out of hand.
Tell you what establish a auction house system but let the trade guilds remain also. Lets see how long the trade guilds last. You will see a mass exodus from the trade guilds to the auction house game wide system.
You’d see trade guilds flop because the entire game economy would go up in flames
50k in sales a week isn’t unreasonable at all. Hell, you could just hop in a guild to sale, and then immediately leave once you’ve sold stuff, and pay nothing at all. It takes, at worst, five minutes to get into a trade guild.
I prefer the economy healthy, not bot-friendly, and lacking the extreme price polarization you see in every global AH system. It is currently, literally impossible for one person to bot the entire market. Anyone who claims otherwise is full of crap and they know it. With a GAH system, botters can absolutely park their machines and constantly undercut everybody by 1, until their botted materials are selling less than vendor and no one has any chance to make money off of their gathering.
Rarer items you can’t get at the drop of a hat, the dungeon motifs, the rare furnishing recipes, gold provisioning recipes, the BiS staves people complain about constantly. Monopolizing those items is just a matter of having the gold on hand at the time, because there is no travel time to buy up every single listing in a GAH system. Right now, it would take checking every single trader, having to get there before someone else sees the listing, and then hoping by the time they gathered them all up no one has posted more in the meantime.
There is no real positive to a “convenient” GAH system that isn’t immensely and immediately outweighed by the damage it will do to everyone.
Prices will drop on everything else however and no bots is required.
As you say everybody will be underbidding each other. Yes they do this in WOW to but wow has hundreds of servers and two factions who don't share AH. ESO has 6 servers so this effect will be more than 10 times stronger, this without bots.
Part of that makes the ESO economy work is that you can not get the best deal, you just settle with an good enough. Also trying to sell to high then prices tend to go down will end
You just confirmed what most of the people dislike about the current system. The rich get rich, the poor get poorer. You advocate to horde the gold to yourself without sharing. Good for you, I advocate differently.
THAT being said, this entire conversation is null. ZO$ designed the current system to do exactly what you said it does, keep gold out of the average players hand, which pushes them to the crown store.3 -
Kingslayer513✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yes, you get it, an GAH is good for the buyers in most cases although expensive items would be even more expensive.I think having a game wide auction house is a great idea. When the new trader bid system went live many trade guilds folded or the requirements to remain in an active trade guild tripled. Requirements like 50k in weekly sales or 15k guild deposit is why out of hand.
Tell you what establish a auction house system but let the trade guilds remain also. Lets see how long the trade guilds last. You will see a mass exodus from the trade guilds to the auction house game wide system.
You’d see trade guilds flop because the entire game economy would go up in flames
50k in sales a week isn’t unreasonable at all. Hell, you could just hop in a guild to sale, and then immediately leave once you’ve sold stuff, and pay nothing at all. It takes, at worst, five minutes to get into a trade guild.
I prefer the economy healthy, not bot-friendly, and lacking the extreme price polarization you see in every global AH system. It is currently, literally impossible for one person to bot the entire market. Anyone who claims otherwise is full of crap and they know it. With a GAH system, botters can absolutely park their machines and constantly undercut everybody by 1, until their botted materials are selling less than vendor and no one has any chance to make money off of their gathering.
Rarer items you can’t get at the drop of a hat, the dungeon motifs, the rare furnishing recipes, gold provisioning recipes, the BiS staves people complain about constantly. Monopolizing those items is just a matter of having the gold on hand at the time, because there is no travel time to buy up every single listing in a GAH system. Right now, it would take checking every single trader, having to get there before someone else sees the listing, and then hoping by the time they gathered them all up no one has posted more in the meantime.
There is no real positive to a “convenient” GAH system that isn’t immensely and immediately outweighed by the damage it will do to everyone.
Prices will drop on everything else however and no bots is required.
As you say everybody will be underbidding each other. Yes they do this in WOW to but wow has hundreds of servers and two factions who don't share AH. ESO has 6 servers so this effect will be more than 10 times stronger, this without bots.
Part of that makes the ESO economy work is that you can not get the best deal, you just settle with an good enough. Also trying to sell to high then prices tend to go down will end
You just confirmed what most of the people dislike about the current system. The rich get rich, the poor get poorer. You advocate to horde the gold to yourself without sharing. Good for you, I advocate differently.
THAT being said, this entire conversation is null. ZO$ designed the current system to do exactly what you said it does, keep gold out of the average players hand, which pushes them to the crown store.
It's time to take off the tinfoil hat. I make 300k a week from doing my daily crafting writs lmao. Don't even start with this "average players can't make gold" bs. The playerbase is absolutely overflowing with gold right now.2 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kingslayer513 wrote: »
Yes, you get it, an GAH is good for the buyers in most cases although expensive items would be even more expensive.I think having a game wide auction house is a great idea. When the new trader bid system went live many trade guilds folded or the requirements to remain in an active trade guild tripled. Requirements like 50k in weekly sales or 15k guild deposit is why out of hand.
Tell you what establish a auction house system but let the trade guilds remain also. Lets see how long the trade guilds last. You will see a mass exodus from the trade guilds to the auction house game wide system.
You’d see trade guilds flop because the entire game economy would go up in flames
50k in sales a week isn’t unreasonable at all. Hell, you could just hop in a guild to sale, and then immediately leave once you’ve sold stuff, and pay nothing at all. It takes, at worst, five minutes to get into a trade guild.
I prefer the economy healthy, not bot-friendly, and lacking the extreme price polarization you see in every global AH system. It is currently, literally impossible for one person to bot the entire market. Anyone who claims otherwise is full of crap and they know it. With a GAH system, botters can absolutely park their machines and constantly undercut everybody by 1, until their botted materials are selling less than vendor and no one has any chance to make money off of their gathering.
Rarer items you can’t get at the drop of a hat, the dungeon motifs, the rare furnishing recipes, gold provisioning recipes, the BiS staves people complain about constantly. Monopolizing those items is just a matter of having the gold on hand at the time, because there is no travel time to buy up every single listing in a GAH system. Right now, it would take checking every single trader, having to get there before someone else sees the listing, and then hoping by the time they gathered them all up no one has posted more in the meantime.
There is no real positive to a “convenient” GAH system that isn’t immensely and immediately outweighed by the damage it will do to everyone.
Prices will drop on everything else however and no bots is required.
As you say everybody will be underbidding each other. Yes they do this in WOW to but wow has hundreds of servers and two factions who don't share AH. ESO has 6 servers so this effect will be more than 10 times stronger, this without bots.
Part of that makes the ESO economy work is that you can not get the best deal, you just settle with an good enough. Also trying to sell to high then prices tend to go down will end
You just confirmed what most of the people dislike about the current system. The rich get rich, the poor get poorer. You advocate to horde the gold to yourself without sharing. Good for you, I advocate differently.
THAT being said, this entire conversation is null. ZO$ designed the current system to do exactly what you said it does, keep gold out of the average players hand, which pushes them to the crown store.
It's time to take off the tinfoil hat. I make 300k a week from doing my daily crafting writs lmao. Don't even start with this "average players can't make gold" bs. The playerbase is absolutely overflowing with gold right now.
Yup making gold is easy in this game. All it takes is a little tiny bit of effort. But some people are lazy cant get out of their own way to do that.Beta tester November 20131 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kingslayer513 wrote: »I'll be the first to admit that the vanilla guild trader system is broken as hell without addons. It is the addons that actually make it a far superior system to wow's central AH. Leave it to ZOS to follow in the footsteps of Bethesda and require modders to fix their broken systems. And yet, I love what the addon creators have turned this system into.
The problem is consoles lack addons, not the guild trader system itself. This system with addons is so much more intricate and interesting than a central AH. It more closely represents real world markets, which are always segmented to some extent. It is fun and easy to use if you have greater than 70 IQ.
It gets pretty tiring to fix the Bethesda games, or wait for someone to come along and fix them. It is equally tiring to watch ZOS develop systems partially, then take a breather and never finish stuff. "Hey, we should finish... ooooh, donuts"
Yes, the problem is not to get rid of the add-ons but for ZOS to fix their usability issues. Some of the features in both MM and TTC should have been in the guild trading system on Day 1. Failing that, within the first year.
4 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You folks cry every time someone mentions a central AH, so at least meet people in the middle...
Seeing as I don't cry... let's go with no.
I do, however inform, why the GAH system is inferior to what we have, and have a low tolerance for the bull**** horror stories about how someone's friend's cousin's former roommate got kicked from their trade guild because they didn't log on in thirty months.
Yeah, some guilds are ambulatory dumpster fires. I'm in one of the guilds that was in Markarth, when that guy ran his scam, and cleared out every other guild bank in the city.
There are some real horror stories.
That said, getting in a guild with a trader, and making money that way is easy. I've been in multiple ones over the years, including being an early member of Black Market Wares.
I understand people saying, "oh, this worked in this other game, I want that." But, this isn't like the devs had never seen an MMO before. I mean, Paul Sage was the original creative director. To say nothing of Matt's background.
You know what? The original planned system didn't work. Originally, there was no public trading at all. This is the compromise.2 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Yes, you get it, an GAH is good for the buyers in most cases although expensive items would be even more expensive.I think having a game wide auction house is a great idea. When the new trader bid system went live many trade guilds folded or the requirements to remain in an active trade guild tripled. Requirements like 50k in weekly sales or 15k guild deposit is why out of hand.
Tell you what establish a auction house system but let the trade guilds remain also. Lets see how long the trade guilds last. You will see a mass exodus from the trade guilds to the auction house game wide system.
You’d see trade guilds flop because the entire game economy would go up in flames
50k in sales a week isn’t unreasonable at all. Hell, you could just hop in a guild to sale, and then immediately leave once you’ve sold stuff, and pay nothing at all. It takes, at worst, five minutes to get into a trade guild.
I prefer the economy healthy, not bot-friendly, and lacking the extreme price polarization you see in every global AH system. It is currently, literally impossible for one person to bot the entire market. Anyone who claims otherwise is full of crap and they know it. With a GAH system, botters can absolutely park their machines and constantly undercut everybody by 1, until their botted materials are selling less than vendor and no one has any chance to make money off of their gathering.
Rarer items you can’t get at the drop of a hat, the dungeon motifs, the rare furnishing recipes, gold provisioning recipes, the BiS staves people complain about constantly. Monopolizing those items is just a matter of having the gold on hand at the time, because there is no travel time to buy up every single listing in a GAH system. Right now, it would take checking every single trader, having to get there before someone else sees the listing, and then hoping by the time they gathered them all up no one has posted more in the meantime.
There is no real positive to a “convenient” GAH system that isn’t immensely and immediately outweighed by the damage it will do to everyone.
Prices will drop on everything else however and no bots is required.
As you say everybody will be underbidding each other. Yes they do this in WOW to but wow has hundreds of servers and two factions who don't share AH. ESO has 6 servers so this effect will be more than 10 times stronger, this without bots.
Part of that makes the ESO economy work is that you can not get the best deal, you just settle with an good enough. Also trying to sell to high then prices tend to go down will end
You just confirmed what most of the people dislike about the current system. The rich get rich, the poor get poorer. You advocate to horde the gold to yourself without sharing. Good for you, I advocate differently.
ESO has the most accessible trading system I've ever seen. It takes at worst five minutes to join a trade guild, and even level 1 raw materials can be sold for a decent profit. You can get pricing info from the traders themself if you so choose, a quick look at the current listings give plenty of info to start out and what a newcomer will most likely be listing, those mats that are valuable as they would never be in a GAH system.
What you're advocating for is a system that is hard to enter due to the complete lack of value in anything that can easily be obtained in bulk by a newbie. You advocate a system that invites botters to corner rare items without so much as lifting a finger. You advocate a system that would lead to the loss of the undisputed biggest gold sink in the entire game, so either we become subject to immense inflation, or every facet of the game must be flooded with inconveniences and gold sinks galore, else we restrict gold earnings to laughable amounts.
There is nothing a GAH does well enough to even slightly justify the harm it would do. You're slightly inconvenienced, you're not on a high horse because god forbid you don't get the lowest price in the game the first time you look at a trader.
[Edit to remove flame]Edited by [Deleted User] on October 12, 2019 6:34PM5 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭lordrichter wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »blueyonder wrote: »An auction house would ruin the game world economy and make the game less true to real life.
Ruin the economy?
Supporting evidence please.
Real world?
Sorry, but an AH would be far closer to real life given I can search for and price just about everything from my PC or even my phone, and have it delivered to my doorstep.
I do not schlep all over the country trying to find items in out of the way towns, and wondering if the price is reasonable.
So in your normal every day life do you go to different shops and look for different goods and bargains or do you and everyone you know head to an auction house to bid against each other for clothes, luxuries, and every day goods?
Real world? Amazon tells them what they need. All they need to do is press Buy and wait for the truck to show up. Is it any wonder they want the same thing in their games?
Amazon? You mean the place where sellers all compete on one place like an AH? The place where items sit there for years because sellers are trying to constantly out fo each other by posting "deals" that's save you pennies? The place where the larger a seller is the more it benefits them? Man, I'd only there were real world parallels to amazing and a global AH but sadly we'll never know.3 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭stpdmonkey wrote: »An auction house would be nice. But as zos has put it they use guild traders to remove gold from the game. Especially since now you can buy gold with crowns in a sense. It has given real world worth to in game gold. So a trader going for 20mil removes a lot of gold. If their main reasoning is to remove gold then make an auction house system but charge guilds a weekly fee to be able to use and allow to post in the auction house. This would both solve the traders issue and still remove gold like they want. Possibly even more due to the unlimited number of guilds that could be involved.
Okay, so ZOS needs to allow only Guilds to do Delves, Dungeons, Trials, BG's and PvP but they have to bid on a spots with only a limited number available of each. The increased Gold Sinks will maintain the balance of economy in the game.
This is what you are asking of the Trade community. Equal application is fair. Let's limit the access to all these activities that generate gold from nothing. Trading is at least a transfer of wealth.
No one is limited from trading. You can find and get an invite to a trade guild in literally less than 5 minutes if you ask in a busy zone.
Your suggestion is just rediculous
Okay so that means you would have no problem finding a guild to do Delves, Dungeons, Trials, BG's and PvP. So how is it ridiculous to apply that to one aspect of the game but having nothing like a Gold Sink for the parts creating the need for the Gold Sink. I find your argument hypocritical in that many are fine with it being applied only to one aspect but not the other parts that they are interested in.
I am already in 2 guilds that do dungeons and trials because pugging can be painful. Most delves are soloable by design (except some in Craglorn) so no group needed and therefore, in most cases does not apply.
Nothing is stopping people from selling in zone chat just like nothing is stopping people from grouping for trials, dungeons and delves in zone chat. People literally do it every day in every map.
Again your arguement is rediculous and a not so veiled attempt to push your agenda.
The guild trader system is fine and is accessible to everyone.
If you don't like it and refuse to use the system available to you, thats your problem, not a problem with the system.
What I see is your agenda is that you do not want to have a gold sink associated with Delves, Dungeons, Trials, BG's and PvP. Nor do you want it to be required to be in a guild to do those. But you feel it is absolutely fine to require that in the Trader system.
You deflected from what I said of requiring guild membership and guilds to bid on a finite amount of access to Delves, Dungeons, Trials, BG's and PvP. Just like how trade guilds must do. I see it as you do not what a equalizing gold sink.
MMORGP's have a gold sink associated with wealth creation by questing and monster hunting. It is by having item replacement and repair. Neglecting repairs also has consequences so it is done more often. That was not done with ESO and a failure to spread the gold sink more equally throughout the game.
If people truly thought a gold sink is need to control the economy then they would agree to spread the sink throughout the game. Yet they do not support it.
I'm not deflecting. The suggestion is stupid, and rediculous and does not deserve a response. Tell me what game requires bids on dungeon and trial runs.....thats right none. Your suggestion will kill this game.
You're just trying to twist my answer into an agreement with you. I dont, and never will.
You don't need to be in a guild to sell things. People sell things in zone chat every day. Does a guild make it easier? Sure. Just like it's usually easier to find a successful trial and dungeon group in a guild than in zone chat, yet people do that every day too.
Well you would be able to kill things in the overland. Tell me what game requires traders to bid on a trade location and limit the same to a small portion of the players? That's right none.
You rationalize repeatedly in posts that you can or have done it so others should just accept it. Responding that making changes to the Trader system is stupid or ridiculous has been used time an again to keep the status quo.
The original idea ZOS had on combat and balance was not kept but was adjusted. That is what we are asking to be done on the trader system.
What I am doing is pointing out that if you expect to saddle one portion of the players to a gold sink, you best be ready to accept it in other aspects of the game. You want people that do trading to accept it and move on yet you will not accept it in the activities that I pointed out.
You make an assumption that I want a global AH when I established early in this thread what my stance is.
This is why I advocate that ZOS do quarterly survey's done at game long in basically a tab on the daily log in page. This would take the pulse of the community better than a few of us that gets on the forums.
I am also of the belief that a hybrid system change would go over the best for ESO.
i.e. 1) Making each zone into a AH that is separate from all other zones.
2) Trade Guilds would still bid to be on a zone's AH to list their Guild Store.
3) There should be an increase from the 8 current traders in a zone to around 15.
4) ZOS could make this adjustment easily as they would not have to add a trader physically.
5) Current trader locations become access points to that zone's AH.
6) We go from 217 Trade shops to 23 (I think). Makes shopping a bit easier but places all guilds at the same access level in that zone.
Now outlaw refuges I think would be interesting to be their own AH instead as part of the zone. This keeps a feel that they are moving goods about Tamriel.
This proposal would still be unique but improved on the current system. Maintains the Trader bid system. Grants easier expansion for player growth to Trading. Gives a reason why Trade Guilds still need to exist.
Multi-bidding would need to be adjusted from the 10 bids. I would say to about 3 bids. It's not an exclusive right to that AH but a combined market of the winning guild store bids. So if a AH has 15 slots available for 15 Trade Guilds to list their store. Only those top 15 guilds have their items listed on that store. If slots are left open then I think the buy option should be raised from 10k to between 100k to 300k, ZOS would need to figure the best for their sink.
I know it's not a popular idea. Both sides can agree at times that the system need improvement but differ greatly as to how. A hybrid compromise seems best to me. If you try to please 100% of the people all the time, then you will fail 100% of the time.
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wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭but it is obvious that many here fear something...Additional options can't be bad, except you have something to fear about those...
I don't know where you keep getting the notion that anyone here is "afraid" of something. You're trying to be degrading, but it isn't doing anything to further your (lack of an) argument.
Because there is no real reason given than simply "that's how it is", which it isn't. I also asked for the location of a nice, tax free trading guild mentioned, which also wasn't given. Very suspect, I mean if it is so great and all, why not promote that guild even?
But yes, I guess now the answer will be, "I see what I want to see" and avoid the question again...
I can name 4 such guilds. Rawlmart, Insert Guild Name Here, The Auction House, and The Silk road. All on PC NA. Easy to find the locations. Two requirements to join adhere to our inactivity policy and dont be rude. No dues. All revenues are voluntary. Yes we do raffles and auctions but participation Is voluntary. You probably dont even need to sell. We always have spots and always have people join.4 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
Actually they are. Content as applied to all video games iss about how your audience interacts and engages with your game. Every detail is designed to create an interaction and engagement. TES games for a long time now have been a blended mix of developer driven content as well as player driven content. Skyrim is still actively being played, mostly because the player modding community is still creating content for it, and it's been almost 8 years since launch.
MMOs thrive or fall based on a combination of developer content as well as player driven content. Pvp for example is player driven. Players need to be willing to participate for there to be pvp. Guilds, RPing, trading, trial groups, even these forums are all player driven content. Even your character designs and outfits are player based content. Its these interactions that keep the game going between developer content releases.2 -
Diarf✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »Get ready for all of the peeps screaming that the Trader System is awesome and can't be manipulated. And that a Auction House would be inviting demons into ESO.
In the meantime, those of us familiar with both systems will tell you that its definitely possible to manipulate ESO's system, but it takes a lot of time and effort, is typically over a short duration and only for certain rarer items. An Auction House would make manipulation much, much easier in comparison.
But that would require you to engage with more than a strawman argument.
Market manipulation is already present in ESO, and can be seen in items that affect newer and more casual players disproportionately. Crafting and upgrade materials are routinely rounded up and reposted at a mark-up. Guild traders vs. auction house is immaterial, you'd need other measures to address manipulation.thermatico wrote: »Think about the current performance of this game. Could you imagine implementing a global auction house? lmao
Straw man. Other MMOs with global auction houses don't seem to be held back by that fact.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
How original. But a horse ain't dead just because you say it is. A dead horse would be something that is definitively and irrevocably decided. There is nothing stopping ZOS from implementing an AH in the future, so the discussion remains valid. If you don't want to discuss, you can just move along.
Lol? There is 1 thing.
Zos. This is one, big, dead horse. If you think not... Gz xD
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Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »
My preference is 100% to have equal access to trading just like the community has access to generate wealth by questing, dungeons and other non trading activities. The non trading side of the game generates more wealth yet it has no gold sink associated with it.
ZOS obfuscates the active server numbers and points to +12 million population. So we are to believe that each server has +2 million. Close 108K of +2 Million is a small portion.
Selling in chat requires that both the buyer and seller to be online in the same area, viewing the same communication media in order to make the sell connection. This is not a comparable chance to selling through a 24/7 point of sell option. (for those that wish to argue this is an option).2 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭wtlonewolf20 wrote: »but it is obvious that many here fear something...Additional options can't be bad, except you have something to fear about those...
I don't know where you keep getting the notion that anyone here is "afraid" of something. You're trying to be degrading, but it isn't doing anything to further your (lack of an) argument.
Because there is no real reason given than simply "that's how it is", which it isn't. I also asked for the location of a nice, tax free trading guild mentioned, which also wasn't given. Very suspect, I mean if it is so great and all, why not promote that guild even?
But yes, I guess now the answer will be, "I see what I want to see" and avoid the question again...
I can name 4 such guilds. Rawlmart, Insert Guild Name Here, The Auction House, and The Silk road. All on PC NA. Easy to find the locations. Two requirements to join adhere to our inactivity policy and don't be rude. No dues. All revenues are voluntary. Yes we do raffles and auctions but participation Is voluntary. You probably don't even need to sell. We always have spots and always have people join.
Tamriel Trade Union, The Dragons Lair and The Shadow Exchange on PC-NA all also have no dues or quotas. The first two does have voluntary raffles and an auction. The last mentions that donations are voluntary and not required, no raffle or auction.
There's seven on PC-NA mentioned I do believe there are a few more. BTW, these seven have excellent successful bid records and maintain near full memberships.Edited by Grimm13 on October 12, 2019 12:34PM1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My preference is 100% to have equal access to trading...
Well, what a coincidence; they do. Assuming they're not an ambulatory dumpster fire constantly screaming slurs in chat, anyway.
All players have equal access, that's not the same thing as having unlimited access, and it does encourage the player to actually engage with the community. You do need to find a guild to sign on with. But once you've done that you're free to sell.
Unlike in other MMOs, the trading system requires a little bit of time and effort to get into. Which, isn't that dissimilar to the way clearing dungeons, or even questing requires some time.2 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »My preference is 100% to have equal access to trading...
Well, what a coincidence; they do. Assuming they're not an ambulatory dumpster fire constantly screaming slurs in chat, anyway.
All players have equal access, that's not the same thing as having unlimited access, and it does encourage the player to actually engage with the community. You do need to find a guild to sign on with. But once you've done that you're free to sell.
Unlike in other MMOs, the trading system requires a little bit of time and effort to get into. Which, isn't that dissimilar to the way clearing dungeons, or even questing requires some time.
Way to go taking this out of context to valid date your point.2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The non trading side of the game generates more wealth yet it has no gold sink associated with it.
Right now, it looks like they are expecting gold generated by sources outside of the trading system to be sunk by the trading system, and to a lesser degree, repairs. If you bring it up to ZOS as a problem they need to solve, and they agree, I bet ZOS could solve it.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »My preference is 100% to have equal access to trading...
Well, what a coincidence; they do. Assuming they're not an ambulatory dumpster fire constantly screaming slurs in chat, anyway.
All players have equal access, that's not the same thing as having unlimited access, and it does encourage the player to actually engage with the community. You do need to find a guild to sign on with. But once you've done that you're free to sell.
Unlike in other MMOs, the trading system requires a little bit of time and effort to get into. Which, isn't that dissimilar to the way clearing dungeons, or even questing requires some time.
Way to go taking this out of context to valid date your point.
The word you're looking for is, "validate."4 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »
My preference is 100% to have equal access to trading just like the community has access to generate wealth by questing, dungeons and other non trading activities. The non trading side of the game generates more wealth yet it has no gold sink associated with it.
ZOS obfuscates the active server numbers and points to +12 million population. So we are to believe that each server has +2 million. Close 108K of +2 Million is a small portion.
Selling in chat requires that both the buyer and seller to be online in the same area, viewing the same communication media in order to make the sell connection. This is not a comparable chance to selling through a 24/7 point of sell option. (for those that wish to argue this is an option).
More players doesn't equal more opportunities it means more competition.starkerealm wrote: »
My preference is 100% to have equal access to trading just like the community has access to generate wealth by questing, dungeons and other non trading activities. The non trading side of the game generates more wealth yet it has no gold sink associated with it.
ZOS obfuscates the active server numbers and points to +12 million population. So we are to believe that each server has +2 million. Close 108K of +2 Million is a small portion.
Selling in chat requires that both the buyer and seller to be online in the same area, viewing the same communication media in order to make the sell connection. This is not a comparable chance to selling through a 24/7 point of sell option. (for those that wish to argue this is an option).
1) Your "preference" is a meaningless platitude. There is no way for all players to have 100% equal access to any trading community especially in a system like a global AH. Newer players are going to be pushed out because older players will have more gold at their disposal and will be able to undercut their items by a few gold for a quicker sale. More competition doesn't equal more opportunities it means less overall unless you are able to put out deals that are able to entice people to buy your items. Another problem no one seems to bring up is the AH game. I've seen people saying that playing the AH isn't content and it's not mean to be meaningful. If that's the case I hope those people like playing the AH game that we don't have to play in ESO. The guild trader system has the benefit of "set it and forget it." I put my auctions up and then forget about them until they get mailed back to me at the end of 30 days. No worries, I sell 3/4 of my motifs and wares and I just repost and fill in the rest. If an AH is added we all lose that and now get the AH game, if your item is there for more then a few hours, go check and relist because if it's not ultra rare it's not selling.
I think all of those numbers for you and the other guy are way off but that's opinion, I reserve the right to be wrong.
"This is not a comparable chance to selling"
Absolutely 100% not true. Unless your item is worth millions of gold or has no actual value then you will have absolutely no problems finding a seller 24/7. It is absolutely viable and comparable and just like guild traders and an AH it is a system all its own with pros and cons. You don't like it being brought up because it blows a gigantic hole in the "players don't have ways to sell anything " argument.Edited by Rave the Histborn on October 12, 2019 4:31PM0 -
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[Deleted User]Soul ShrivenHello everyone,
Recently we've had to remove several posts for flaming and baiting, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment or action on one's own account.
Thank you for understanding.2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kingslayer513 wrote: »It's time to take off the tinfoil hat. I make 300k a week from doing my daily crafting writs lmao. Don't even start with this "average players can't make gold" bs. The playerbase is absolutely overflowing with gold right now.
Most people do not have 10 alts and the time to do crafting every day all week long to get 300k, they have other activities outside of the game. I am happy you have the luxury of spending all day crafting, that however does not set the standard at which gold is made by the masses.
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Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
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That is not what it looks like from my perspective. So, I am going to stick with what I can observe.starkerealm wrote: »
Seeing as I don't cry... let's go with no.
You do not inform, you speculate like everyone else. The difference is that the Central Auction House camp has literally DECADES of research to prove it works, in ESO you have 5 years of proof it does not work. That is why these threads keep coming up. I don't recall seeing ONE topic on the wow forums about how broken the auction house was and that the system needed changing. It simply worked in a way that people can all use and easily understand. This one, does not.starkerealm wrote: »I do, however inform, why the GAH system is inferior to what we have, and have a low tolerance for the bull**** horror stories about how someone's friend's cousin's former roommate got kicked from their trade guild because they didn't log on in thirty months.
But as I have said (rightfully) on many occasions, the REAL reason Zo$ will not change the AH is because it helps them keep gold out of the every day persons hands by INCREASING prices (something you all have admitted) so that the player is funneled to the crown store for their purchase. But as far as a CAH being good for the community vs GT, CAH wins hands down.
Yes, the current system is easily abused. Hence many folks reason for wanting it changed.starkerealm wrote: »Yeah, some guilds are ambulatory dumpster fires. I'm in one of the guilds that was in Markarth, when that guy ran his scam, and cleared out every other guild bank in the city.
There are some real horror stories.
I am in two of the largest and longest trade guilds since launch 2014. There are only a handful of people who can even make requirements lately. People have been purged left and right every week. This last week 50 were purged. If it was so easy, people should be making money hand over fist, but only a small handful are making the cash and those are the ones who flip and you have to have a ton of money to flip.starkerealm wrote: »That said, getting in a guild with a trader, and making money that way is easy. I've been in multiple ones over the years, including being an early member of Black Market Wares.
There are plenty of arguments about their works and that can be dissected, but this is not the place for it. That being said, they were given a task to design the trade system around Z0$ requirements of funneling people to the crown store, that is why it is what it is, does not mean its good, does not mean its fair, does not mean people have to like it.starkerealm wrote: »I understand people saying, "oh, this worked in this other game, I want that." But, this isn't like the devs had never seen an MMO before. I mean, Paul Sage was the original creative director. To say nothing of Matt's background.
That is not confidence inspiring, not in the slightest. Makes me seriously question the ability of the people you listed.starkerealm wrote: »You know what? The original planned system didn't work. Originally, there was no public trading at all. This is the compromise.
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Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
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How can a system where you have to apply, pay dues (in some cases), make quotas (in many cases) or contribute time to guild auctions, raffles etc be easier than simply walking up to an Auction House NPC like in wow, and list an item.ESO has the most accessible trading system I've ever seen. It takes at worst five minutes to join a trade guild, and even level 1 raw materials can be sold for a decent profit. You can get pricing info from the traders themself if you so choose, a quick look at the current listings give plenty of info to start out and what a newcomer will most likely be listing, those mats that are valuable as they would never be in a GAH system.
Sorry, but your statement makes zero, absolutely zero sense.
I advocate for a system that is fair to the entire player base and a system that does not keep gold out of the average persons hand (especially new players).What you're advocating for is a system that is hard to enter due to the complete lack of value in anything that can easily be obtained in bulk by a newbie. You advocate a system that invites botters to corner rare items without so much as lifting a finger. You advocate a system that would lead to the loss of the undisputed biggest gold sink in the entire game, so either we become subject to immense inflation, or every facet of the game must be flooded with inconveniences and gold sinks galore, else we restrict gold earnings to laughable amounts.
I am sorry, but decades of data prove you incorrect. Global Auction Houses are the best thing for the community as a whole. Its worked in countless games. Is it perfect? No, but the issues that plague a GAH have also been seen to plague the one in ESO.There is nothing a GAH does well enough to even slightly justify the harm it would do. You're slightly inconvenienced, you're not on a high horse because god forbid you don't get the lowest price in the game the first time you look at a trader.
The GAH benefits ZO$ by keeping large amounts of gold out of the average persons hand. This in turn pushes the player to the crown store. The entirety of this game is designed that way. Its obvious.
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