Lets have an auction house please!!!

starkerealm

Raideen wrote: »

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

It's time to take off the tinfoil hat. I make 300k a week from doing my daily crafting writs lmao. Don't even start with this "average players can't make gold" bs. The playerbase is absolutely overflowing with gold right now.

Most people do not have 10 alts and the time to do crafting every day all week long to get 300k, they have other activities outside of the game. I am happy you have the luxury of spending all day crafting, that however does not set the standard at which gold is made by the masses.

300k is closer to 5 or 6 alts. 8 if you're unlucky with your reward caches.

Also, if you use Lazy Writ Crafter, on a PC with a decent hard drive, clearing 15 takes about 30-35 minutes. At that point, if your goal is to make money, and you're not doing writs, you've intentionally chosen a less efficient method.

That includes selling things to other players. While selling stuff you obtained can easily surge above what you'd get from writs on occasion, but the time to obtain them, and the amount received from selling them will significantly under perform what you'd get if you'd simply been doing your writs in that time.

Now, if you're saying you don't have 20 minutes a day to do your writs, then you were never going to get wealthy off of in game drops anyway.

Sylvermynx

Regardless that I'm in the "global" corner, I do have to say @starkerealm that the reason I'm still here a year and a half on is BECAUSE it's so easy to make gold in this game (unlike WoW or RIFT a decade ago - where since I had satellite broadband issues as I had here when I started playing - I didn't have much choice except to use the AH to make some gold).

Of course, over time, the joke was on me - I got tired of both games, they weren't fun any more, the devs made abysmal (to my personal vision of fun) choices about game direction; at the point I left WoW in 2013, I left 70 toons sitting on about 30 million gold; RIFT nowhere near that much though - I played from 2013 to 2016, and left 40 toons sitting on 10 million gold.

My sister and daughter still play both games. My characters are all still there, sitting on all their gold.... and I have ZERO interest in playing either game ever again.

It's nice for me that gold is so easy to come by in ESO. Without having to bother with the whole guild + trader thing.

Raideen

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Regardless that I'm in the "global" corner, I do have to say @starkerealm that the reason I'm still here a year and a half on is BECAUSE it's so easy to make gold in this game (unlike WoW or RIFT a decade ago - where since I had satellite broadband issues as I had here when I started playing - I didn't have much choice except to use the AH to make some gold).

Of course, over time, the joke was on me - I got tired of both games, they weren't fun any more, the devs made abysmal (to my personal vision of fun) choices about game direction; at the point I left WoW in 2013, I left 70 toons sitting on about 30 million gold; RIFT nowhere near that much though - I played from 2013 to 2016, and left 40 toons sitting on 10 million gold.

My sister and daughter still play both games. My characters are all still there, sitting on all their gold.... and I have ZERO interest in playing either game ever again.

It's nice for me that gold is so easy to come by in ESO. Without having to bother with the whole guild + trader thing.

Please share your methods about making massive gold in ESO, I am finding your "story" to be just that, a story.

Raideen

starkerealm wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

It's time to take off the tinfoil hat. I make 300k a week from doing my daily crafting writs lmao. Don't even start with this "average players can't make gold" bs. The playerbase is absolutely overflowing with gold right now.

Most people do not have 10 alts and the time to do crafting every day all week long to get 300k, they have other activities outside of the game. I am happy you have the luxury of spending all day crafting, that however does not set the standard at which gold is made by the masses.

300k is closer to 5 or 6 alts. 8 if you're unlucky with your reward caches.

Also, if you use Lazy Writ Crafter, on a PC with a decent hard drive, clearing 15 takes about 30-35 minutes. At that point, if your goal is to make money, and you're not doing writs, you've intentionally chosen a less efficient method.

That includes selling things to other players. While selling stuff you obtained can easily surge above what you'd get from writs on occasion, but the time to obtain them, and the amount received from selling them will significantly under perform what you'd get if you'd simply been doing your writs in that time.

Now, if you're saying you don't have 20 minutes a day to do your writs, then you were never going to get wealthy off of in game drops anyway.

So in order to make gold in eso you have to use an addon to do your writs for you? Is this an automated process, seems like a set and forget addon should not exist, if the player is not needed at the keyboard.

I do my writs daily, its still BS amounts of gold by the time I pay my guild requirements, pay for repairs etc (I easily amass 4k a day in repairs due to terrible combat design).

starkerealm

Raideen wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Seeing as I don't cry... let's go with no.

That is not what it looks like from my perspective. So, I am going to stick with what I can observe.

Okay, then let's stick with what you can observe.

Raideen wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I do, however inform, why the GAH system is inferior to what we have, and have a low tolerance for the bull**** horror stories about how someone's friend's cousin's former roommate got kicked from their trade guild because they didn't log on in thirty months.

You do not inform, you speculate like everyone else. The difference is that the Central Auction House camp has literally DECADES of research to prove it works...

Except, it doesn't. There's very little (if any) research on the subject. So, this is something you haven't observed.

Raideen wrote: »

...in ESO you have 5 years of proof it does not work.

Except, again, you haven't observed this. You've been here less than two years. So, you cannot have observed five years of history in the last two years.

Raideen wrote: »

That is why these threads keep coming up.

Post hoc ergo proctor hoc. There are many potential reasons these threads keep coming up, but that doesn't mean they have merit. People keep asking for animation canceling to be removed, for addons to be considered cheating, how overland content is to easy, how vet content is too hard, how the game is "literally unplayable for everyone," how the character delete limit should be removed, how the groupfinder should be added to trials.

This does not mean that these threads are valid. People come to ESO, they see a trading system they don't understand at a glance, and then they come on the forums with the idea that they are the first person in the history of the game to see this system and realize that other MMOs have used different methods.

Raideen wrote: »

I don't recall seeing ONE topic on the wow forums about how broken the auction house was and that the system needed changing. It simply worked in a way that people can all use and easily understand. This one, does not.

So, if we go by your own metric, this entire paragraph has no validity. If you stuck with what you observe, and you didn't observe something, you can't drag it up.

This is the problem with proving a negative. It's easy to prove a positive, "this thing happens," "those things exist," "there is a dead body in the bathtub." It's much, much, harder to prove a negative. You cannot prove that I haven't read every thread on this forum today. You cannot prove that there has never been any dissent about WoW's auction system.

You are not making a compelling argument that a GAH system works flawlessly, simply because you didn't see anyone complaining. Now, you can say, "I've never seen this," but it's much weaker evidence, which is why you tried to present it as definitive.

Raideen wrote: »

But as I have said (rightfully) on many occasions, the REAL reason Zo$ will not change the AH is because it helps them keep gold out of the every day persons hands by INCREASING prices (something you all have admitted) so that the player is funneled to the crown store for their purchase. But as far as a CAH being good for the community vs GT, CAH wins hands down.

[citation needed]

On the whole, it keeps prices down.

No, seriously.

First off, economics in MMOs are fundimentally different from real world economics. New goods come from unlimited sources. This includes gold. This means, over a long time scale, these resources will pile up.

Now, in a real world economy, money, and goods, are finite.

In the fictional system, the long term effect will be inflation. As the amount of gold in the system increases, the individual value will decrease. The same occurs with fiat currencies, when you "print more money." This causes prices to rise. This also reduces the value of fixed payouts. If a quest gave you 500 gold in 2014, and still gave you 500g in 2019, the actual purchasing power of that gold would have decreased enormously between those two points. This means, if you started playing back at launch, and continued to play, moving money in and out of liquid assets, you would be significantly wealthier today, than someone just starting out, and a new player would not have the ability to, "catch up." The same stepping stones a new player used five years earlier would be much weaker, and would provide the resources necessary to make that assent today.

Still with me?

So, what ESO has done is institute a staggering gold sink. This is a way that gold leaves the economy. Most MMO economies, including WoW use a variety of gold sinks, to keep the amount of gold in circulation down. Most of the time (ESO included), these sinks are ones that you have to opt into. In many cases, they will affect all players indiscriminately. So, if you're a new player, and just struggling to make ends meet, you'll suffer as much as an established, and very wealthy, player. Money comes from everyone, and goes into the aether.

ESO is a little different, because the primary gold sink is the trader stalls. This means that the average player does not experience the most significant gold sink. Those are shouldered by the people who are the most economically active (and in a position to acquire the most.)

In terms you might understand, where most MMOs tax everyone's gold, ESO primarily taxes the rich.

This is also true in the outfit system, where rarer motifs carry a higher cost to apply. There's a whole discussion here on how these systems are balanced together, but that's not relevant at the moment.

starkerealm

Raideen wrote: »

So in order to make gold in eso you have to use an addon to do your writs for you? Is this an automated process, seems like a set and forget addon should not exist, if the player is not needed at the keyboard.

It's not an automated process, and if you want to cry about that, then I'd suggest you actually try the addons we're talking about before condemning them.) If you're worried about being banned for automation, I've literally participated in face to face conversations with Rich and team about lazy writ crafter, (though, Ink was doing most of the talking, there.) They know it exists, they're cool with it, you won't get banned.

As with most addons, Lazy Writ Crafter makes things easier and more efficient. It does not play the game for you.

Raideen wrote: »

I do my writs daily, its still BS amounts of gold by the time I pay my guild requirements, pay for repairs etc (I easily amass 4k a day in repairs due to terrible combat design).

Okay, you have made several poor decisions here. I'm not even sure how you're getting to 4k in repairs per day. That boggles my mind. The most I've spent on repairs in a day in years was somewhere in the range of 1.5k, and that was a catastrophic training run in vMoL.

On top of that, tier 10 writs pay out with grand repair kits. I've got something like 3k GRKs right now, so, yeah, not a problem.

As for guild dues? Ditch that guild. Unless you're making enough money in a guild for the dues to be pocket change, you're in the wrong guild. You pay for a really good trader location, and you can capitalize on that. But, if you're not seeing the money come back to make it more than worth it, the guild is either overcharging you, or you're not using the system to it's fullest. Either way, run. There are a lot of guilds that would be happy to have you, hold reasonable locations, and won't charge you a thing.

Raideen

starkerealm wrote: »

Okay, then let's stick with what you can observe.

I do, and it has rarely failed me.

Raideen wrote: »

Except, it doesn't. There's very little (if any) research on the subject. So, this is something you haven't observed.

My comment about "observing" was about you whining, so your retort does not work directly.
Secondly, the hundreds of millions of players who have been content with central auction house systems for DECADES is a study in and of itself. So your assertion is quite incorrect. Its been working and it works perfectly.

starkerealm wrote: »

Except, again, you haven't observed this. You've been here less than two years. So, you cannot have observed five years of history in the last two years.

But I can observe and research the topic on these very forums. Its been a hot debate since launch. We know it was half baked, I believe it was you who said they did not even intend to have a system.
The truth is that the system is designed to keep money out of the average persons hands to ensure the player is funneled to the crown store. A global auction house that is simpler in use, open to everyone, would drive prices down to where people could afford to spend more on the necessary items in game. Of course the issue then becomes that players are not spending in the crown store. This is why the system was developed and implemented, NOT because its "a better system", its out right not.

starkerealm wrote: »

There are many potential reasons these threads keep coming up, but that doesn't mean they have merit. People keep asking for animation canceling to be removed, for addons to be considered cheating, how overland content is to easy, how vet content is too hard, how the game is "literally unplayable for everyone," how the character delete limit should be removed, how the groupfinder should be added to trials.

Incorrect. EVERY SINGLE THING you just listed has EXTREME merit and there are very real, logical and reasonable arguments to be made for these, but again the entirety of this game is designed to funnel the player to the crown store. This is why most people have so many issues with ESO's design, they just don't see that aspect of it. Once they do, it all makes sense.
The design firm I worked for in Hollywood employed very similar mechanics (marketing) to achieve the same results.

starkerealm wrote: »

This does not mean that these threads are valid. People come to ESO, they see a trading system they don't understand at a glance, and then they come on the forums with the idea that they are the first person in the history of the game to see this system and realize that other MMOs have used different methods.

Spoken like someone who does not value their customers. You are completely, amazingly incorrect. Every customer reaction is valid, the difference is that the video game industry has the luxury of glossing over these reactions.
You know, GOOD games that are designed with fun FIRST, do not have the same level of critique as ESO enjoys.

starkerealm wrote: »

So, if we go by your own metric, this entire paragraph has no validity. If you stuck with what you observe, and you didn't observe something, you can't drag it up.

Incorrect. I observed that people did not have an issue. Auction house threads did not creep up every two weeks, or months, or even years like they do in eso. There is a reason for that, but one you will not admit because it appears to me that your intent is to take the readers eyes from the actuality of how and why this game is designed.

starkerealm wrote: »

This is the problem with proving a negative. It's easy to prove a positive, "this thing happens," "those things exist," "there is a dead body in the bathtub." It's much, much, harder to prove a negative. You cannot prove that I haven't read every thread on this forum today. You cannot prove that there has never been any dissent about WoW's auction system.

Well "auction house replacement" shows zero results. https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/search?q="auction house replacement"

starkerealm wrote: »

You are not making a compelling argument that a GAH system works flawlessly, simply because you didn't see anyone complaining. Now, you can say, "I've never seen this," but it's much weaker evidence, which is why you tried to present it as definitive.

I don't need to make an argument, hundreds of millions of players over again, DECADES have been using global auction house systems, and they have worked great.
But AGAIN, the real reason Z0$ does not want a global auction house system is because it would affect their bottom line.

starkerealm wrote: »

On the whole, it keeps prices down.

No, seriously.

No, no it does not.

starkerealm wrote: »

First off, economics in MMOs are fundimentally different from real world economics. New goods come from unlimited sources. This includes gold. This means, over a long time scale, these resources will pile up.

Except games are designed with gold sinks.

starkerealm wrote: »

Now, in a real world economy, money, and goods, are finite.

Yes and No. ZO$ sells digital goods in this game that are infinite, and they make a killing with them.

starkerealm wrote: »

In the fictional system, the long term effect will be inflation. As the amount of gold in the system increases, the individual value will decrease. The same occurs with fiat currencies, when you "print more money." This causes prices to rise. This also reduces the value of fixed payouts. If a quest gave you 500 gold in 2014, and still gave you 500g in 2019, the actual purchasing power of that gold would have decreased enormously between those two points. This means, if you started playing back at launch, and continued to play, moving money in and out of liquid assets, you would be significantly wealthier today, than someone just starting out, and a new player would not have the ability to, "catch up." The same stepping stones a new player used five years earlier would be much weaker, and would provide the resources necessary to make that assent today.

Except again...gold sinks.

starkerealm wrote: »

Still with me?

I am ahead of you, still waiting for you to catch up.

starkerealm wrote: »

So, what ESO has done is institute a staggering gold sink. This is a way that gold leaves the economy. Most MMO economies, including WoW use a variety of gold sinks, to keep the amount of gold in circulation down. Most of the time (ESO included), these sinks are ones that you have to opt into. In many cases, they will affect all players indiscriminately. So, if you're a new player, and just struggling to make ends meet, you'll suffer as much as an established, and very wealthy, player. Money comes from everyone, and goes into the aether.

ESO is a little different, because the primary gold sink is the trader stalls. This means that the average player does not experience the most significant gold sink. Those are shouldered by the people who are the most economically active (and in a position to acquire the most.)

But they already have gold sinks, PLENTY of gold sinks, more than other games in fact everything you do in this game is a gold sink.
Between the 3 million dollar houses, the high prices for tempers, the high prices for nincrux, the high prices for tri stat enchants, the high prices of repair bills, the high prices of bank slots, character item slots, the high prices of dreugh wax, mundane runes, the insane prices for patterns, motifs, etc. Those alone are enough to keep the economy working fine. But ZO$ had to introduce the guild auction system to increase the gold sink beyond what is necessary. If players made lots of gold, they would not be spending crowns for bank slots, they would not spend crowns for character inventory slots, they would not spend crowns for houses, they would not spend crowns for all the other junk you can spend crowns on.
IN FACT, this is why ZO$ is getting farther and farther away from offering items in game FOR GOLD, its to ENSURE the player must spend additional dollars on top of the purchase price of the game on top of the subscription.

starkerealm wrote: »

In terms you might understand, where most MMOs tax everyone's gold, ESO primarily taxes the rich.

I completely disagree. If you are in a guild trader that has a prime location (and they DO matter), you are not only expected to sell and or meet a minimum, but also participate in the guild activities that create gold.
The rich and the poor pay the same percentage wise, the rich pay more because they have more but they are not paying more of a percent...and in reality, they are not taxed heavily at all, because all the money they are dumping back into the system buys them TONS of things to sell (at higher prices in many cases).

starkerealm wrote: »

This is also true in the outfit system, where rarer motifs carry a higher cost to apply. There's a whole discussion here on how these systems are balanced together, but that's not relevant at the moment.

The systems are balanced only to drive the customer to the crown store.

starkerealm

Raideen wrote: »

Please share your methods about making massive gold in ESO, I am finding your "story" to be just that, a story.

Daily writs. Supplemented with motif sales. Sometimes items from high value sets, but those are less consistent.

Being at level 50 (CP160) is incredibly important, because otherwise item drops are worthless.

Material sales can bring in some cash. My record for that is something like 3mil in an afternoon. Though, that was a bit of a fire sale for a guild competition.

starkerealm

Raideen wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Okay, then let's stick with what you can observe.

I do, and it has rarely failed me.

You do not, and as a result, your grasp of the game is tenuous at best.

Dracofyre

devs dont want players flooding with junks. i know, i kinda dont like limited access to trading vendors.

Raideen

starkerealm wrote: »

It's not an automated process, and if you want to cry about that, then I'd suggest you actually try the addons we're talking about before condemning them.) If you're worried about being banned for automation, I've literally participated in face to face conversations with Rich and team about lazy writ crafter, (though, Ink was doing most of the talking, there.) They know it exists, they're cool with it, you won't get banned.

WHOAH, easy pal I was only asking the question based on what was said about the addon.

starkerealm wrote: »

As with most addons, Lazy Writ Crafter makes things easier and more efficient. It does not play the game for you.

How does it work then?

starkerealm wrote: »

Okay, you have made several poor decisions here. I'm not even sure how you're getting to 4k in repairs per day. That boggles my mind. The most I've spent on repairs in a day in years was somewhere in the range of 1.5k, and that was a catastrophic training run in vMoL.

How much do you engage in combat with boss level mobs? Because this game will kill you without notification, LITERALLY. I have it happen ALL THE TIME. I run 100 up down fiber, I live in dallas (where the servers are located for NA) and I have very low latency. I run an RTX 2080, game is on current year Samsung SSD and I run an intel 9900k at 5.0ghz all cores with a 1300 watt Seasonic PS (based on bench tests I have done with an engineer, they are the best in the industry).

I tell you all of this because there is ZERO reason I should not see an attack coming from a mob, and yet it happens multiple times a day. My GF even comments often "what killed you, there was nothing there, you just died", I am like "ya, I know..it happens all the time." Ohh and yes, I have the enemy reticle turned up and its bright pink. There is no way I can not notice it.

So now, you are probably going to blame me as the reason because my hardware and internet are clearly not the issue. Well all I can say to that is that I currently play wow as well, and I have never, not once, in the entirety of the life of that game died to something I did not see coming. Yet in ESO it happens all the time. Sometimes its my fault for not knowing the mechanic, sometimes its just *poof death* with zero indication of the incoming damage.

I know to stay away from the dragons head, I know about the tail swipe, I know about the chomp, the wings knocking you back, the damage you take if you stand too close etc. But on a templar, spamming ranged abilities when I am at the 7-8 o clock area or 4-5, I still die, one shot, no indication.

These amounts of deaths create large repair bills, esp on the gold gear.

But, all of that being said. EVEN IF U DONT DIE to mobs, or falling or anything, I mean I don't die period. I still amass heavy repair bills, even on low level alts.

starkerealm wrote: »

On top of that, tier 10 writs pay out with grand repair kits. I've got something like 3k GRKs right now, so, yeah, not a problem.

This takes us back to using an addon I am not familiar with, that appears to automate, based on doing 10x crafting writs a day with all 10 characters having maxed out passives. I don't how you get the time to go skyshard hunting in all zones for alll your alts, and do all the quests that give points and dungeons on all your alts because I don't have that kind of time.

Starting to now consider how ESO is in fact, pay to win. I could solve all these issues if I just spent $5000.00 in the crown store.

starkerealm wrote: »

As for guild dues? Ditch that guild. Unless you're making enough money in a guild for the dues to be pocket change, you're in the wrong guild. You pay for a really good trader location, and you can capitalize on that. But, if you're not seeing the money come back to make it more than worth it, the guild is either overcharging you, or you're not using the system to it's fullest. Either way, run. There are a lot of guilds that would be happy to have you, hold reasonable locations, and won't charge you a thing.

Guild sales are down across the game. PC NA some of the largest trade guilds are merging, some are going social only.
Combine that fact (lower player count) with the fact ZO$ is charging more and more for their crown items, it appears to me the health of the game is not what it could be. And if that is true, its easily blamed on the greed of their monetization system. People do not like it when you have your hands constantly in their wallet, you might want to pass that on to your dev friends at ZO$

Jayman1000

I find it rather easy to buy and sell what I want. I am member of two trading guilds, one is quite central, the other not so much. Easy to sell all stuff in both. And when I need to go buy something I really want I just visit Rawlkha (US PC server), never fails. Or if I want to go looking for good deals I tour the world to all the 5-trader locations. Also a good opportunity to see those good old places once more.

I dont want an AH, please dont make throw away the unique and interesting guild trader system in favor of becoming just like all the other MMO's with the central AH's.

Jhalin

But they already have gold sinks, PLENTY of gold sinks, more than other games in fact everything you do in this game is a gold sink.
Between the 3 million dollar houses, the high prices for tempers, the high prices for nincrux, the high prices for tri stat enchants, the high prices of repair bills, the high prices of bank slots, character item slots, the high prices of dreugh wax, mundane runes, the insane prices for patterns, motifs, etc. Those alone are enough to keep the economy working fine. But ZO$ had to introduce the guild auction system to increase the gold sink beyond what is necessary. If players made lots of gold, they would not be spending crowns for bank slots, they would not spend crowns for character inventory slots, they would not spend crowns for houses, they would not spend crowns for all the other junk you can spend crowns on.
IN FACT, this is why ZO$ is getting farther and farther away from offering items in game FOR GOLD, its to ENSURE the player must spend additional dollars on top of the purchase price of the game on top of the subscription.

If you can’t even realize half the things you listed aren’t gold sinks at all, I think you are not in any position to be giving an opinion on economics, fictional or otherwise.

Traders are subject to the most frequent gold sinks and the largest gold sinks. It’s actually the only activity in the game that does not create any gold. Crafting, raiding, even casual questing brings gold into the system. Player trading only has existing gold trading hands and sends gold to the void.

Gold is removed upon listing an item, that list fee is gone to the void. Gold is removed upon selling an item, 3.5% of the sale’s total value is gone to the void. Every week trader bids remove billions from the game.


ZOS’s increasingly crappy business practices are completely unrelated to the guild trader system that has remained almost entirely unchanged (besides this most recent multibid fiasco that only made the gold sink bigger) since its release.

Raideen

Jayman1000 wrote: »

I find it rather easy to buy and sell what I want. I am member of two trading guilds, one is quite central, the other not so much. Easy to sell all stuff in both. And when I need to go buy something I really want I just visit Rawlkha (US PC server), never fails. Or if I want to go looking for good deals I tour the world to all the 5-trader locations. Also a good opportunity to see those good old places once more.

I dont want an AH, please dont make throw away the unique and interesting guild trader system in favor of becoming just like all the other MMO's with the central AH's.

You have nothing to worry about, they are never going to change the system. It would hurt their real dollar bottom line too much.

Although I don't find it interesting or unique. I find it boring, and repetitive. I'd rather spend more time fighting, questing etc then running around for 30 minutes trying to get a reasonable deal (and that is with using TTC).

Rave the Histborn

Raideen wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

It's not an automated process, and if you want to cry about that, then I'd suggest you actually try the addons we're talking about before condemning them.) If you're worried about being banned for automation, I've literally participated in face to face conversations with Rich and team about lazy writ crafter, (though, Ink was doing most of the talking, there.) They know it exists, they're cool with it, you won't get banned.

WHOAH, easy pal I was only asking the question based on what was said about the addon.

starkerealm wrote: »

As with most addons, Lazy Writ Crafter makes things easier and more efficient. It does not play the game for you.

How does it work then?

starkerealm wrote: »

Okay, you have made several poor decisions here. I'm not even sure how you're getting to 4k in repairs per day. That boggles my mind. The most I've spent on repairs in a day in years was somewhere in the range of 1.5k, and that was a catastrophic training run in vMoL.

How much do you engage in combat with boss level mobs? Because this game will kill you without notification, LITERALLY. I have it happen ALL THE TIME. I run 100 up down fiber, I live in dallas (where the servers are located for NA) and I have very low latency. I run an RTX 2080, game is on current year Samsung SSD and I run an intel 9900k at 5.0ghz all cores with a 1300 watt Seasonic PS (based on bench tests I have done with an engineer, they are the best in the industry).

I tell you all of this because there is ZERO reason I should not see an attack coming from a mob, and yet it happens multiple times a day. My GF even comments often "what killed you, there was nothing there, you just died", I am like "ya, I know..it happens all the time." Ohh and yes, I have the enemy reticle turned up and its bright pink. There is no way I can not notice it.

So now, you are probably going to blame me as the reason because my hardware and internet are clearly not the issue. Well all I can say to that is that I currently play wow as well, and I have never, not once, in the entirety of the life of that game died to something I did not see coming. Yet in ESO it happens all the time. Sometimes its my fault for not knowing the mechanic, sometimes its just *poof death* with zero indication of the incoming damage.

I know to stay away from the dragons head, I know about the tail swipe, I know about the chomp, the wings knocking you back, the damage you take if you stand too close etc. But on a templar, spamming ranged abilities when I am at the 7-8 o clock area or 4-5, I still die, one shot, no indication.

These amounts of deaths create large repair bills, esp on the gold gear.

But, all of that being said. EVEN IF U DONT DIE to mobs, or falling or anything, I mean I don't die period. I still amass heavy repair bills, even on low level alts.

starkerealm wrote: »

On top of that, tier 10 writs pay out with grand repair kits. I've got something like 3k GRKs right now, so, yeah, not a problem.

This takes us back to using an addon I am not familiar with, that appears to automate, based on doing 10x crafting writs a day with all 10 characters having maxed out passives. I don't how you get the time to go skyshard hunting in all zones for alll your alts, and do all the quests that give points and dungeons on all your alts because I don't have that kind of time.

Starting to now consider how ESO is in fact, pay to win. I could solve all these issues if I just spent $5000.00 in the crown store.

starkerealm wrote: »

As for guild dues? Ditch that guild. Unless you're making enough money in a guild for the dues to be pocket change, you're in the wrong guild. You pay for a really good trader location, and you can capitalize on that. But, if you're not seeing the money come back to make it more than worth it, the guild is either overcharging you, or you're not using the system to it's fullest. Either way, run. There are a lot of guilds that would be happy to have you, hold reasonable locations, and won't charge you a thing.

Guild sales are down across the game. PC NA some of the largest trade guilds are merging, some are going social only.
Combine that fact (lower player count) with the fact ZO$ is charging more and more for their crown items, it appears to me the health of the game is not what it could be. And if that is true, its easily blamed on the greed of their monetization system. People do not like it when you have your hands constantly in their wallet, you might want to pass that on to your dev friends at ZO$

Going to answer this too

1. You're condemning add-ons you've never tried.
2. It doesn't matter how it works. It works and isn't against any TOS. Whine more.
3. This sounds like you don't know how to play the game, which makes sense as you don't know how to use the Guild Trader System.
4. If you die it is absolutely 100% your fault. Playing WoW isn't a shield from this as I'm sure it happens all the time in that game too. If your specs are really what you say then the problem is you, I don't have a GPU as good as yours and I live in the Northeast and I apparently don't die 1/4th as much. It's you but it's easier to blame everything else (in the entirety of the game hahaha yeah right, I've actually played WoW. There's plenty of server issues).
"Sometimes its my fault for not knowing the mechanic, sometimes its just *poof death* with zero indication of the incoming damage. "
So wait in the same paragraph you went from it's always the game to it's sometimes the game, sometimes I don't know what I'm doing. It seems to be the latter more often then the former.
5.No. You either don't know how to fight a dragon or you're lying about your specs. Plain and simple explanation.
6. How do you amass large repair builds on alts you say you don't die on? Have you ever actually played this game? That's where large repair builds come from.
7. ESO is becoming pay to win, just not because you're bad at it. I guess a broken clock though.
8. The player base shrinking is because of balancing/server issues/lack luster endgame/boring chapter content. It's not because of guild traders.

Raideen

starkerealm wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Please share your methods about making massive gold in ESO, I am finding your "story" to be just that, a story.

Daily writs. Supplemented with motif sales. Sometimes items from high value sets, but those are less consistent.

Being at level 50 (CP160) is incredibly important, because otherwise item drops are worthless.

Material sales can bring in some cash. My record for that is something like 3mil in an afternoon. Though, that was a bit of a fire sale for a guild competition.

Daily writs. 4k a character.
Motif sales are RNG and not reliable. I just got my first purple motif in elsweyr yesterday over 2 months.
Your results are not even remotely average.

Raideen

starkerealm wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Okay, then let's stick with what you can observe.

I do, and it has rarely failed me.

You do not, and as a result, your grasp of the game is tenuous at best.

I grasp it better thank you do, or rather than you will admit. I understand the design of this game to its foundation, we both know what I am talking about and we know your job is to defame my character with ad hominem attacks slide neatly into your posts, just like the one I just quoted.

Raideen

Jhalin wrote: »

If you can’t even realize half the things you listed aren’t gold sinks at all, I think you are not in any position to be giving an opinion on economics, fictional or otherwise.

Yes they are, else ZO$ would not put such a low drop rate on some necessary items and in fact continue to lower the drop rate on items. Motifs are an excellent example. Riding is a gold sink, everything you do in a game is a gold sink and there are a plethora of design implementations that take gold (and items) out of the game. A gold sink is not ONE BIG item that takes gold out, its all the little parts and wow they work as a whole.

Jhalin wrote: »

Traders are subject to the most frequent gold sinks and the largest gold sinks. It’s actually the only activity in the game that does not create any gold. Crafting, raiding, even casual questing brings gold into the system. Player trading only has existing gold trading hands and sends gold to the void.

Gold is removed upon listing an item, that list fee is gone to the void. Gold is removed upon selling an item, 3.5% of the sale’s total value is gone to the void. Every week trader bids remove billions from the game.

I understand this. I understood this before this entire thread was even started. But none of this is here nor there. Because you can just as easily remove gold from a central AH, wow has done it for 15 years.

Jhalin wrote: »

ZOS’s increasingly crappy business practices are completely unrelated to the guild trader system that has remained almost entirely unchanged (besides this most recent multibid fiasco that only made the gold sink bigger) since its release.

This is where you are completely wrong, and I am not trying to be rude but its obvious how everything in this game is designed to funnel the player to the crown store. If you can't see that, then you are never going to be able to understand the design intent behind the guild trade system or frankly the reason behind anything they do. But just because you do not understand it, does not mean I do not.

Rave the Histborn

Raideen wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Please share your methods about making massive gold in ESO, I am finding your "story" to be just that, a story.

Daily writs. Supplemented with motif sales. Sometimes items from high value sets, but those are less consistent.

Being at level 50 (CP160) is incredibly important, because otherwise item drops are worthless.

Material sales can bring in some cash. My record for that is something like 3mil in an afternoon. Though, that was a bit of a fire sale for a guild competition.

Daily writs. 4k a character.
Motif sales are RNG and not reliable. I just got my first purple motif in elsweyr yesterday over 2 months.
Your results are not even remotely average.

4.6k per character a day isn't anything to laugh at. It takes 20min to crafts on 10 guys which is 46k a day and over 300k per week. If you're questioning it you don't know what you're talking about.
Motif sales aren't RNG. You put them up for a price and they sell, there's nothing RNG about it. How many quests have you done in Elsweyr in the last 2 months? I haven't been here in 2 months and I've completed the Anequina style and I've almost got half the Pellentine in the last week.

Your results don't seem to be the ones remotely close to average. You know you have to play the game in order to see results and not just cry on the forums all day.

Kelces

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Tatanko wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

but it is obvious that many here fear something...

Kelces wrote: »

Additional options can't be bad, except you have something to fear about those...

I don't know where you keep getting the notion that anyone here is "afraid" of something. You're trying to be degrading, but it isn't doing anything to further your (lack of an) argument.

Because there is no real reason given than simply "that's how it is", which it isn't. I also asked for the location of a nice, tax free trading guild mentioned, which also wasn't given. Very suspect, I mean if it is so great and all, why not promote that guild even?

But yes, I guess now the answer will be, "I see what I want to see" and avoid the question again...

I can name 4 such guilds. Rawlmart, Insert Guild Name Here, The Auction House, and The Silk road. All on PC NA. Easy to find the locations. Two requirements to join adhere to our inactivity policy and dont be rude. No dues. All revenues are voluntary. Yes we do raffles and auctions but participation Is voluntary. You probably dont even need to sell. We always have spots and always have people join.

EU server here, I have no idea about your situation. But good for you.

Both trading systems skip certain social interactions, that's the root of most of the problems occuring with anything like this. People still need to be careful who they give their coins to, so the "nice traders" stay alive. If it works well in the guild based trading system though, it has to work well in a global one too, because only the mechanism of distribution is slightly different between the two.

Therefore, theoretically, there should be no problem with a global auction house.

Raideen

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Going to answer this too

1. You're condemning add-ons you've never tried.

Incorrect. I QUESTIONED the design of the addon, I still have not gotten a straight answer. Does it automate your tasks, yes or no.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

It doesn't matter how it works. It works and isn't against any TOS. Whine more.

Odd, I don't recall whining. I recall asking a question about the addon and only suggested that it was automated, because that is what it sounded like the other person was saying.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

This sounds like you don't know how to play the game, which makes sense as you don't know how to use the Guild Trader System.

I know how to use t he guild trader system, been doing so for 2 years. Does not mean I like it, does not mean I don't see the intent behind it. If you fail at both of those, that is on you, not me.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

If you die it is absolutely 100% your fault. Playing WoW isn't a shield from this as I'm sure it happens all the time in that game too. If your specs are really what you say then the problem is you, I don't have a GPU as good as yours and I live in the Northeast and I apparently don't die 1/4th as much. It's you but it's easier to blame everything else (in the entirety of the game hahaha yeah right, I've actually played WoW. There's plenty of server issues).
"Sometimes its my fault for not knowing the mechanic, sometimes its just *poof death* with zero indication of the incoming damage. "
So wait in the same paragraph you went from it's always the game to it's sometimes the game, sometimes I don't know what I'm doing. It seems to be the latter more often then the former.

When I am going through a rotation and there is no pink reticle on the ground, when the boss is not facing me and I die from 21k health to dead instantly, 1 attack without warning...trust me pal, its not me.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

.No. You either don't know how to fight a dragon or you're lying about your specs. Plain and simple explanation.

Wrong and wrong. Just because my answer defies what we SHOULD expect in game, does not mean that the game is not wrong. Its akin to this, if you are able to draw the parallels yourself. “Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

How do you amass large repair builds on alts you say you don't die on? Have you ever actually played this game? That's where large repair builds come from.

Simply killing and getting hit wears your armor down. Dying makes it worse.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ESO is becoming pay to win, just not because you're bad at it. I guess a broken clock though.

Wow, another attack at my character vs attacking the issue. You do realize when you resort to character assassination, its because you cant refute the topic at hand.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The player base shrinking is because of balancing/server issues/lack luster endgame/boring chapter content. It's not because of guild traders.

I never said it was. I said that guild traders as part of the overall design of the game in regards to how it pushes the customer to the crown store is the issue. If you cant understand why, then I cant help you.

starkerealm

Raideen wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

It's not an automated process, and if you want to cry about that, then I'd suggest you actually try the addons we're talking about before condemning them.) If you're worried about being banned for automation, I've literally participated in face to face conversations with Rich and team about lazy writ crafter, (though, Ink was doing most of the talking, there.) They know it exists, they're cool with it, you won't get banned.

WHOAH, easy pal I was only asking the question based on what was said about the addon.

You suggested that the entire process was executed AFK, which is a bannible offense.

Raideen wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

As with most addons, Lazy Writ Crafter makes things easier and more efficient. It does not play the game for you.

How does it work then?

It does several things.

First: It will auto accept writs from the notice boards. So, you walk up to the board, and it will automatically accept the quests there. (Incidentally, this is fine with the devs, and I've had a conversation with one who used a similar addon to filter for Covetous Countess on the Thieves Guild tip board.)

Second: It puts an element in the crafting UI showing you what you need for the current writ at that station. If you interact with the station to complete a currently accepted writ, the name of the station will appear in red. If you have a writ for that skill line and it's ready to turn in, the station's name will be green. (If you don't have a writ, it will be white.)

Third: (Most significantly) the UI element has a button to auto craft items needed for the writ. You click that, and it will craft the items you need. Alternately, this can be configured to automatically execute when you interact with the station.

Important Note: Lazy Writ Crafter does not work with Alchemy or Provisioning. Daily Provisioning and Daily Alchemy do provide that functionality, but they're separate addons.

Fourth: It will automatically execute the quest turn in dialog at the drop off point.

Fifth: If configured, it will automatically loot your reward caches in the background.

The end result massively accelerates writ completion, but you do still need to be at the keyboard.

Raideen wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Okay, you have made several poor decisions here. I'm not even sure how you're getting to 4k in repairs per day. That boggles my mind. The most I've spent on repairs in a day in years was somewhere in the range of 1.5k, and that was a catastrophic training run in vMoL.

How much do you engage in combat with boss level mobs?

A lot. Even died on air in Moongrave Fane a bunch last night. Only person on a role they're comfortable with was C'Nedra, the rest of us were scampering around in a memefest. It was during Nyssa's stream if you want to dig up the Twitch VoD.

That was vet, it does not screw around, and it will kill you. That's part of the game. If you're running vet content, you're going to die. No shame in it.

Raideen wrote: »

Because this game will kill you without notification, LITERALLY.

This is technically not true, because there is a posthumous notification. Read it. It will tell you what killed you, so you can learn to avoid it in the future.

Raideen wrote: »

I have it happen ALL THE TIME. I run 100 up down fiber, I live in dallas (where the servers are located for NA) and I have very low latency. I run an RTX 2080, game is on current year Samsung SSD and I run an intel 9900k at 5.0ghz all cores with a 1300 watt Seasonic PS (based on bench tests I have done with an engineer, they are the best in the industry).

I tell you all of this because there is ZERO reason I should not see an attack coming from a mob, and yet it happens multiple times a day. My GF even comments often "what killed you, there was nothing there, you just died", I am like "ya, I know..it happens all the time." Ohh and yes, I have the enemy reticle turned up and its bright pink. There is no way I can not notice it.

So now, you are probably going to blame me as the reason because my hardware and internet are clearly not the issue. Well all I can say to that is that I currently play wow as well, and I have never, not once, in the entirety of the life of that game died to something I did not see coming. Yet in ESO it happens all the time. Sometimes its my fault for not knowing the mechanic, sometimes its just *poof death* with zero indication of the incoming damage.

No, this is a L2P issue, not a hardware problem.

Without seeing what happened, I'm willing to bet you're being taken out by heavy attacks. Those do have callouts, but it's not an AoE warning, so adjusting the ground callouts won't help you. You need to keep track of the enemy themselves, watch their animations, and then dodge or block the incoming attack. Depending on the color of the callout you may need to bash (or otherwise interrupt) the attack.

Raideen wrote: »

I know to stay away from the dragons head, I know about the tail swipe, I know about the chomp, the wings knocking you back, the damage you take if you stand too close etc. But on a templar, spamming ranged abilities when I am at the 7-8 o clock area or 4-5, I still die, one shot, no indication.

Dragons have a few nasty tricks up their... uh, "sleeves." This includes an almost instantly lethal AoE that doesn't have a normal callout, but is predictable if you're watching the motes of fire wandering around the arena.

This also brings up a question of how much health do you have? Because it is entirely possible in ESO to build a glass cannon too fragile to use. Most experienced players will put some of their build into health on DPS, to avoid dying to one shots that float around 15-20k damage. Those are entirely survivable, but only if you plan for some defense.

Raideen wrote: »

These amounts of deaths create large repair bills, esp on the gold gear.

Not 100% sure, but I've never noticed an applicable, repair cost, difference between my characters in full gold, and my characters in purple, with gold weapons.

Beyond that, if you're having issues, upgrading your weapons to gold makes sense. Upgrading gear and jewelry to gold is just a status symbol. It doesn't matter in most cases.

Raideen wrote: »

But, all of that being said. EVEN IF U DONT DIE to mobs, or falling or anything, I mean I don't die period. I still amass heavy repair bills, even on low level alts.

Gear decays based on combat XP and deaths. If you're running content normally, repair costs will be fairly low. If you're specifically trying to power level by grinding enemies, your costs will be significantly higher. This will also result in a situation where you have reached endgame without really learning how to play the game, and enemies will be far more lethal than you're prepared to deal with.

Oh, oh... wait. This sounds familiar. You tried to play this like WoW, didn't you? And now, that you're at 160+ you're throwing a tantrum because you just realized, this more like Dark Souls than WoW, you're lost, scrambling around, and everybody can one shot you. The goal was to learn how to play, because the power progression curve is inverse.

Raideen wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

On top of that, tier 10 writs pay out with grand repair kits. I've got something like 3k GRKs right now, so, yeah, not a problem.

This takes us back to using an addon I am not familiar with, that appears to automate, based on doing 10x crafting writs a day with all 10 characters having maxed out passives.

There are only 7 crafting writs. You can do each once a day, and those reset at 2am Eastern. So, yeah, nobody's doing 10 crafting writs on each character, each day, because there aren't ten crafting skill lines.

Raideen wrote: »

I don't how you get the time to go skyshard hunting in all zones for alll your alts, and do all the quests that give points and dungeons on all your alts because I don't have that kind of time.

I don't. I've got one character who has all of the Skyshards (not counting Northern Elsweyr), after that, my characters have somewhere between 60 and 100 shards each. There's a couple 200s in there. Mostly I only chase shards if I need them.

I do have three or four characters who have all the Cyrodiil shards, but that's because those include the hardest shards to collect, and I never got around to completing their collections outside of PvP.

Raideen wrote: »

Starting to now consider how ESO is in fact, pay to win. I could solve all these issues if I just spent $5000.00 in the crown store.

Really? How you figure?

What, exactly, do you think you can spend crowns on that will make you more powerful?

You can buy a house? That does nothing. Unless you want to practice on a dummy, but you could do that in a free inn room, using the dummy that is currently free in the store (the dragon hoard from the event). You can also get dummies for free, in game, if you want to spend the time, but it does intersect with the crafting system.

You can buy the Merchant and Banker. They're nice to have, but they don't make you better at the game.

You can buy the DLC, but it's cheaper to just grab ESO+ and get the crafting bag.

You can make your character look very pretty. But that's not P2W.

You can buy crates, which get you some consumables that are inferior to ones you could craft without spending another dime. So, no real gain there.

You get some cool looking mounts, if you're lucky, and 5k is enough to get lucky, but, that's not going to be any better than the free, brown horse you got at level 10.

So, there's nothing that really benefits you in the store.

I mean, if this was Star Trek Online, I know what I'd spend 5k on to improve myself. I'd buy a ton of keys, crack boxes until I got the T6 ships I was chasing. Or generate enough EC to buy them directly. Then I'd spend the rest on crafting mats, and upgrade my gear to mk14 gold. But, that's not possible here.

Or, Secret World Legends, same story, find some gear I like, then buy keys and crack crates until I had that stuff upgrade to level whatever Red rarity.

You can't do that in ESO. There's no path to get gold rarity mats in the store, no way to advance your character to 160 (or 300, or 810), no way advance your gear past 160 by any means, no way to get attractive sets from the store.

Raideen wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

As for guild dues? Ditch that guild. Unless you're making enough money in a guild for the dues to be pocket change, you're in the wrong guild. You pay for a really good trader location, and you can capitalize on that. But, if you're not seeing the money come back to make it more than worth it, the guild is either overcharging you, or you're not using the system to it's fullest. Either way, run. There are a lot of guilds that would be happy to have you, hold reasonable locations, and won't charge you a thing.

Guild sales are down across the game. PC NA some of the largest trade guilds are merging, some are going social only.
Combine that fact (lower player count) with the fact ZO$ is charging more and more for their crown items, it appears to me the health of the game is not what it could be. And if that is true, its easily blamed on the greed of their monetization system. People do not like it when you have your hands constantly in their wallet, you might want to pass that on to your dev friends at ZO$

Guilds change over time. The one I'm in right now is still trading. That hasn't changed. There have been a lot of people who burned out and took a break in the last couple months. Hell, one of my raiding guilds is effectively on hiatus right now. Doesn't mean the game is dead. If your trade guild is shutting down, that's more reason to bail, and find one that's active.

Also, preaching to the choir. I've talked about the crown store, face to face. It's worth knowing that the crown store team is separate from the main dev team, and I've never interacted with the crown team. Though, randomly accusing people people of being greedy, especially when you step back and actually look at what other developers are doing, is not a great way to start a conversation.

Rave the Histborn

Raideen wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Going to answer this too

1. You're condemning add-ons you've never tried.

Incorrect. I QUESTIONED the design of the addon, I still have not gotten a straight answer. Does it automate your tasks, yes or no.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

It doesn't matter how it works. It works and isn't against any TOS. Whine more.

Odd, I don't recall whining. I recall asking a question about the addon and only suggested that it was automated, because that is what it sounded like the other person was saying.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

This sounds like you don't know how to play the game, which makes sense as you don't know how to use the Guild Trader System.

I know how to use t he guild trader system, been doing so for 2 years. Does not mean I like it, does not mean I don't see the intent behind it. If you fail at both of those, that is on you, not me.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

If you die it is absolutely 100% your fault. Playing WoW isn't a shield from this as I'm sure it happens all the time in that game too. If your specs are really what you say then the problem is you, I don't have a GPU as good as yours and I live in the Northeast and I apparently don't die 1/4th as much. It's you but it's easier to blame everything else (in the entirety of the game hahaha yeah right, I've actually played WoW. There's plenty of server issues).
"Sometimes its my fault for not knowing the mechanic, sometimes its just *poof death* with zero indication of the incoming damage. "
So wait in the same paragraph you went from it's always the game to it's sometimes the game, sometimes I don't know what I'm doing. It seems to be the latter more often then the former.

When I am going through a rotation and there is no pink reticle on the ground, when the boss is not facing me and I die from 21k health to dead instantly, 1 attack without warning...trust me pal, its not me.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

.No. You either don't know how to fight a dragon or you're lying about your specs. Plain and simple explanation.

Wrong and wrong. Just because my answer defies what we SHOULD expect in game, does not mean that the game is not wrong. Its akin to this, if you are able to draw the parallels yourself. “Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

How do you amass large repair builds on alts you say you don't die on? Have you ever actually played this game? That's where large repair builds come from.

Simply killing and getting hit wears your armor down. Dying makes it worse.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ESO is becoming pay to win, just not because you're bad at it. I guess a broken clock though.

Wow, another attack at my character vs attacking the issue. You do realize when you resort to character assassination, its because you cant refute the topic at hand.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The player base shrinking is because of balancing/server issues/lack luster endgame/boring chapter content. It's not because of guild traders.

I never said it was. I said that guild traders as part of the overall design of the game in regards to how it pushes the customer to the crown store is the issue. If you cant understand why, then I cant help you.

1. It isn't automated. I don't think you understand the definitions of the words you use.
2. It doesn't. You suggested it's automated because instead of actually looking at it you condemned and judged it without knowing anything about it. Either way you're whining about something that doesn't matter.
3. I'm great at the guild trader, judging by what you're saying though you don't seem to have the same success.
4. Sorry, I don't believe that happens to you every time. If it does there's easy solutions.
A) You're lying about your specs/location/internet
You're lying about the encounters
Again. My specs aren't as good as yours and I don't live right next to the server location. I don't seem to encounter nearly any of the problem and I've been playing since Orsinium came out.
5. Movie quotes aren't helping your case.
6. Again how do you die that much that you're encountering "massive" repair bills? It's what 2k at most if all your stuff is broken. Repair kits are also laughably easy to get and will save you $$$.
7. You're saying you're dying because ESO is becoming pay to win. How do I refute this when it seems to be a just you problem? I gave you the answer and classifying it as a "character attack" seems to be your way of dealing with the reality of the situation.
8. It doesn't push you to the crown store, there's tons of problems with how ESO monetizes but this is the biggest reach I have ever seen.

starkerealm

Raideen wrote: »

...we know your job is to defame my character...

Wow, talk about paranoid.

So for the record: I am not an employee of ZOS. I'm not getting paid to tell you that you're wrong. This is not my job.

Now, writing is my job, but this is extracurricular.

starkerealm

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

6. Again how do you die that much that you're encountering "massive" repair bills? It's what 2k at most if all your stuff is broken. Repair kits are also laughably easy to get and will save you $$$.

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure, but I think max repair cap is around 1.6k, with eight pieces of broken gear. Maybe 1.8k if you're running S&B on both bars. But, outside of an old glitch, I've never seen a character with fully broken gear.

Jhalin

Raideen wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

If you can’t even realize half the things you listed aren’t gold sinks at all, I think you are not in any position to be giving an opinion on economics, fictional or otherwise.

Yes they are, else ZO$ would not put such a low drop rate on some necessary items and in fact continue to lower the drop rate on items. Motifs are an excellent example. Riding is a gold sink, everything you do in a game is a gold sink and there are a plethora of design implementations that take gold (and items) out of the game. A gold sink is not ONE BIG item that takes gold out, its all the little parts and wow they work as a whole.

You listed the price of player bought items as gold sinks, which is obviously not a gold sink because the only gold removed from the game in that transaction is the inherent list fee and 3.5% from the sale, which applies to those stacks of Alkahest as much as it applies to the handful of Infused Mother’s Sorrow Inferno Staves.

Trading bids are the undisputed biggest gold sink. Outfits are frequently enough changed on a playerbase-wide scale that I consider it a large gold sink as well. Repair costs are a very minor gold sink. Riding lessons are another very minor gold sink.

Things like furniture vendors are good gold sinks due to being limitless, the houses can only be bought once so they’re less impactful over the lifespan of the game than even outfit change costs.

Jhalin wrote: »

Traders are subject to the most frequent gold sinks and the largest gold sinks. It’s actually the only activity in the game that does not create any gold. Crafting, raiding, even casual questing brings gold into the system. Player trading only has existing gold trading hands and sends gold to the void.

Gold is removed upon listing an item, that list fee is gone to the void. Gold is removed upon selling an item, 3.5% of the sale’s total value is gone to the void. Every week trader bids remove billions from the game.

I understand this. I understood this before this entire thread was even started. But none of this is here nor there. Because you can just as easily remove gold from a central AH, wow has done it for 15 years.

No you cannot, unless you make currency extremely difficult to amass, or add multiple more and larger gold sinks to even more of the game. WOW is ancient and split into dozens of smaller populations, it also makes currency difficult to come by, vendor purchased items are expensive, and gear drops from mobs are not common so you will be buying your gear from those expensive vendors or buying mats so another player can make it for you a bit cheaper.

I highly doubt someone could in good faith say they’re being newbie-friend while advocating that system.

Jhalin wrote: »

ZOS’s increasingly crappy business practices are completely unrelated to the guild trader system that has remained almost entirely unchanged (besides this most recent multibid fiasco that only made the gold sink bigger) since its release.

This is where you are completely wrong, and I am not trying to be rude but its obvious how everything in this game is designed to funnel the player to the crown store. If you can't see that, then you are never going to be able to understand the design intent behind the guild trade system or frankly the reason behind anything they do. But just because you do not understand it, does not mean I do not.

It’s designed to be more convenient to use the Crown Store for many things, but the trade system is completely unrelated to that. Welkynar’s implementation is a far bigger form of push into the Crown Store than anything to do with gold accumulation from game sources. You are free to gather everything you need on your own. You may amass gold via nothing but questing and writs. Others can make millions selling off their excess materials, as I did my first week of trying out the trader system. The system is not complicated. It’s not hard to enter into. It’s not the boogeyman behind your lack of ability to maintain a decent amount of gold. It’s not to blame for your discontent about not finding mats for chump change at will.


All of these AH threads stem from one thing, laziness and entitlement. Can’t be bothered to pay someone for spending their time farming mats. Can’t be bothered to check more than one shop. Feeling outraged the convenient locations charge more for always being well stocked. Can’t be bothered to use one guild spot of five to sell in, conveniently ignoring that you may leave and return at any moment as your needs change.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove several posts for flaming and baiting, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment or action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

Can I vote it is already derailed and vote to close it?
There will be another in a few weeks that might be more constructive... Lol..
Just my 2 drakes..... Huzzah!!!

Jhalin

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove several posts for flaming and baiting, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment or action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

Can I vote it is already derailed and vote to close it?
There will be another in a few weeks that might be more constructive... Lol..
Just my 2 drakes..... Huzzah!!!

Agreed. It’s like talking to a wall at this point and thankfully we’re keeping our system that works

starkerealm

Jhalin wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove several posts for flaming and baiting, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment or action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

Can I vote it is already derailed and vote to close it?
There will be another in a few weeks that might be more constructive... Lol..
Just my 2 drakes..... Huzzah!!!

Agreed. It’s like talking to a wall at this point and thankfully we’re keeping our system that works

Yelling at people until the mods come for us all? No, wait, that's not right...

Raideen

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

4.6k per character a day isn't anything to laugh at. It takes 20min to crafts on 10 guys which is 46k a day and over 300k per week. If you're questioning it you don't know what you're talking about.

If you have 10 characters maxed out at 50. You do realize that it takes quite awhile to achieve that. Your description is not the average player, and 20 minutes to do 10...WOW, it takes me 5 one one if I am sprinting in Summerset where everything is super local.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Motif sales aren't RNG. You put them up for a price and they sell, there's nothing RNG about it.

LOL...and how do you get the motifs? LOL, RNG. SMH

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

How many quests have you done in Elsweyr in the last 2 months? I haven't been here in 2 months and I've completed the Anequina style and I've almost got half the Pellentine in the last week.

I have done quite a few. I am almost done with the zone on two characters. I am no where near collecting all of them. I get the same ones over and over (bows...always bows), and I sell them for roughly 12.5-15k

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Your results don't seem to be the ones remotely close to average. You know you have to play the game in order to see results and not just cry on the forums all day.

I play daily. I own my own business and have the luxury of playing in-between work and then playing with GF in my off hours. I can literally spend all day playing the game.

Ohh BTW, remember when you were mocking me for my repair bills. Well I decided to test it. I use Solitude Salmon-Millet Soup on the character I am playing tonight, a lightning sorc. I repaired and set out of my adventure.

I went to a delve, used food, ran delve. I then went and did a public dungeon, I then went and did a second delve all in elseweyr. ZERO deaths and I used a pet to tank many of the mobs.

Upon completion, ONE HOUR OF GAMEPLAY, ZERO DEATHS WITH A FULLY REPAIRED SET my repair bill was 650 gold on the nose.

So, when I made the claim of spending 4k a day or more based on how much I can potentially play, you do the math and then come back and apologize for your blatant condescending attitude towards me.