PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Celestro

Yep I've always wanted some good ol' fashion Chain Lightning. Only thing about that though is Overload is more or less supposed to be the burst damage Ultimate as Storm Atronach is primarily single target DoT with stun and Negate is AoE DOT/HoT with silence. I guess if the initial hit could deal out a fair amount of burst damage that would be cool.

At the same time, I like the concept of buffing light and heavy attacks as is. Just wish the skill was a hell of a lot less clunky with the horrid toggle, dealt more damage, possibly have CP no longer separating Stamina and Magicka light/heavy attacks and actually proc many sets that deal with activating Ultimates. A lot to ask for but...yeah.

On a side note, probably would be in the minority but I've always liked the idea of a morph of Overload increasing attack speed similar to the Blood Moon set. Electricity coursing through nervous system or some such.

CambionDaemon

Overload should be a huge self centered AoE, as if your body cannot contain the energy contained within it, you could have lightning for magicka and a huge concussive blast for stamina.

Then take the animation for current Overload and make it the animation for Mage Wrath/Fury and you then have your class spammable.

Streak made omni-directional (remove the stun, think magicka dodge).

Thraben

crazywolfpusher wrote: »

I cant be the only one who believes Overload needs a rework. And since stam sorc also needs a cheap ultimate i bring a simple proposal...

A huge lightning from your hands that deals instant damage and every oponent after the first take less damage... the typical lightning chain.

Mag version


Stam version

You are not the only one.

The Light Attack should be a Chain Lightning skill that deals more damage the more targets are affected.

The Heavy Attack should get SOME range back, at the moment it´s so overnerfed that even some StamDK melee skill outreach it 12m, the same slow, damage model, and 1.5x the damage of Jabs, and it would be balanced.

And last but not least: GIVE US BACK OUR 3rd bar!

Ellyhan

Thraben wrote: »

crazywolfpusher wrote: »

I cant be the only one who believes Overload needs a rework. And since stam sorc also needs a cheap ultimate i bring a simple proposal...

A huge lightning from your hands that deals instant damage and every oponent after the first take less damage... the typical lightning chain.

Mag version


Stam version

You are not the only one.

The Light Attack should be a Chain Lightning skill that deals more damage the more targets are affected.

The Heavy Attack should get SOME range back, at the moment it´s so overnerfed that even some StamDK melee skill outreach it 12m, the same slow, damage model, and 1.5x the damage of Jabs, and it would be balanced.

And last but not least: GIVE US BACK OUR 3rd bar!

YEAHHHHHHHHH ! Totally agree @ZOS_GinaBruno read this è_é !

WrathOfInnos

Liquid Lightning/Lightning Flood costs too much, and does not deal enough damage. Any build that uses this staple Sorcerer skill in Dragonhold will be losing DPS. It was already questionable in Scalebreaker, with other DoTs providing slightly more damage, but IMO it still had a use for its AoE splash and synergy, don’t let Dragonhold kill it.

Also please look at Endless Fury/Mage’s Wrath and Bound Aegis. Both are underperforming in PVE. Pet Sorc is looking to be the highest DPS builds in Dragonhold, but no-pet is looking quite weak. Buffing the execute and Aegis would help close this gap because pet Sorcs do not have enough bar space to use either of these.

Urvoth

Elwendryll wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Ignoring useless subclasses is exactly how you get balance. There’s no reason to run a sorc tank, but stamsorcs have plenty of viablity. Pets may as well be deleted.

I strongly disagree. I played stamsorc since Tamriel Unlimited in 2015, and back then, there was pretty much nothing for stamina, hurricane came with dark brotherhood.

Stamsorc was an "useless subclass", they made it viable. Are you saying they should just have ignored it?

Nah, stam and magsorcs are 2 sides of the dps subclass, same as for other classes. They both play the mobile, high dmg dps role and fit into the context of the class and its skills. Tanks and healers do not at all fit in with the mobile, glass cannon archetype and catering to those playstyles hinders the main ones.

ketsparrowhawk

My thoughts on the new Bound Armaments:

I appreciate the idea to rework an under-utilized skill, but I think it could be implemented better.

The visual/audio effect can definitely use work. You can't really tell that they're daggers, and the way they float in a uniform arc looks very unnatural and awkward. And the sound they make when you fire them is weak. Compare that to Crystal Frags that has an awesome IMPACTFUL sound when it hits. Bound Armaments doesn't have near the satisfaction when it hits. This is the key problem with this skill (and the new Stonefist).. It's just not fun to use, even if the damage is comparable to other skills.

Suggestion:

I think the solution is obvious: forget the rework of this skill, and turn Crystal Blast into the stamina Crystal Frags. Frags is SO MUCH MORE FUN TO USE! And it's a mechanic that is already unique to Sorcs. You can give stamSorcs identity EASILY by just letting them use frags. New Bound Armaments is just a copy/past of grim focus.. that's diluting identity, not reinforcing it. Crystal Blast is also an under-utilized skill. As in, NOBODY uses it. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain. Nobody would complain about this and stamSorcs would be PUMPED.

-

CreepyPahuska

Urvoth wrote: »

Nah, stam and magsorcs are 2 sides of the dps subclass, same as for other classes. They both play the mobile, high dmg dps role and fit into the context of the class and its skills. Tanks and healers do not at all fit in with the mobile, glass cannon archetype and catering to those playstyles hinders the main ones.

You really have to stop talking about things that are way over your head. Every classes are meant to play all roles and all your ranting without any kind of argument isn't going to change that. You're just being ridiculous and you bring nothing to the debate. Sorcerer tanks and Sorcerers Healer are totally viable and suffer no Identity issue. If you want to improve the gameplay of Sorcerer DDs, there are plenty of useless/unused skills and passives to change.

Now, please stop your nonsense, this is getting boring. really.

heaven13

Urvoth wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Ignoring useless subclasses is exactly how you get balance. There’s no reason to run a sorc tank, but stamsorcs have plenty of viablity. Pets may as well be deleted.

I strongly disagree. I played stamsorc since Tamriel Unlimited in 2015, and back then, there was pretty much nothing for stamina, hurricane came with dark brotherhood.

Stamsorc was an "useless subclass", they made it viable. Are you saying they should just have ignored it?

Nah, stam and magsorcs are 2 sides of the dps subclass, same as for other classes. They both play the mobile, high dmg dps role and fit into the context of the class and its skills. Tanks and healers do not at all fit in with the mobile, glass cannon archetype and catering to those playstyles hinders the main ones.

Man, you've really got a gripe with sorc tanks, huh? It's okay, I won't take it personally. I'm able to complete vet trials on my sorc tank, vet DLC HMs, etc. Sure, I'd appreciate some more skills that would offer group utility, but sorc tanks are still fully capable and viable. And I've got plenty of people that I enjoy playing with that I don't need to "hinder" people like yourself.

universal_wrath

Urvoth wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Ignoring useless subclasses is exactly how you get balance. There’s no reason to run a sorc tank, but stamsorcs have plenty of viablity. Pets may as well be deleted.

I strongly disagree. I played stamsorc since Tamriel Unlimited in 2015, and back then, there was pretty much nothing for stamina, hurricane came with dark brotherhood.

Stamsorc was an "useless subclass", they made it viable. Are you saying they should just have ignored it?

Nah, stam and magsorcs are 2 sides of the dps subclass, same as for other classes. They both play the mobile, high dmg dps role and fit into the context of the class and its skills. Tanks and healers do not at all fit in with the mobile, glass cannon archetype and catering to those playstyles hinders the main ones.

It is true that sorc tanks and healer are not "glass canon" and they should not be, it would defeat the purpose of being tank if you due with 3-4 hits. Sorc healer have their unique ways of being healers as they are probably the only healing spec that can do both healing and dps without effecting their ability to heal, they rely on their twilight, negate and now power surge for healing and crowd control. They also streak(pvp). Sorc tanks also rely on pets, dark magic and bound aegis to tank.

Sorc Glass canon playstyle was considered unique 3-4 years ago. Now you can be dk, warden, templar glass canon type (moblie, and hight dps). When zos started to interduced speed buffs to other classes, they basically homogenized the glass canon playstyle. In a sense, you can say sorc dps subclasses are useless in PvE. Maybe a little bit good better than other classes as being moblie in pvp.

Ekzorka

universal_wrath wrote: »

but people in elswyre complaint that aoe dots were doing so much dmg with low cost. Now both ST and AOE dots do same low dmg, but AOE dot is now 60% more expensive. People asked for it, and zos delivered that nerf hammer.

I remember how people asked to improve Sorcerer's sustain and ZoS nerfed AOEs a bit for a low costing. And after Wrathstone most of Sorcs were happy with sustain, even non-pet.

Never saw that anyone has claimed about nerfing AOEs (maybe it was in PvP section?).

But now it's clear that AOEs is worse in damage than they were after Wrathstone and costly that before Wrathstone. We're back to the same problem with sustain but also get a new one.

As Dragonknigths don't happy with single-target DoTs nerfs because it's DoT-orientiated class, likewise Sorcerers don't like AOE DoT nerfs because it's AOE-orientiated class (the main element is electricity that means AOE, right?). Also I always saw AOEs and DoTs as a chance to keep worthy DPS for those who don't live with server on the one street. And, actually, my two AOEs were always carries a good stuff like synergy and off-balanse effect that were useful on bosses.

And a bit numbers with build I using on Live: after Elsweyr patch even with nerfed damage in Wrathstone and increased duration the Liquid Lighning dealed 31,404 damage for 12 seconds for 2739 magika. On PTS it deals 13,678 damage for 14 seconds and its' more stronger morph Lightning Flood deals 12,110 damage for 10 seconds for 3910 magika both.

It seems the game turns into shooter where only direct damage means everything. Too bad that there are uncomfortable ping everytime for spamming LA fast to keep the same level with those who have normal ping.

Chilly-McFreeze

Ekzorka wrote: »

Never saw that anyone has claimed about nerfing AOEs (maybe it was in PvP section?).

Nobody complained about Liquid Lightning in the PvP section either. The AoE complains from over there were about stuff that ballgroups use for no skill kills like Steel Tornado and person bound Destro Ult.

Pijng

If sorc is about conjuration, why not making bound armaments to "summon" a bound sword(s), you know? Not as a floating stuffs, but maybe as a spam similar to SA.
"Summon flashy violet bound sword and strike your enemy with an X phys damage"
Add some identity buffs/mechanics to skill whatever.

It might not be the best approach due to my lack of knowledge in combat/skill design, but I just wonder why they added those floating daggers. It's not lorewise, it doesn't feel like other summoned weapons from other tes games. And as far as I can see new bound armaments looks a bit off of sorcs identity.

Maybe someone already suggested such option, dunno

dubbmixx

does power surge revert back to healing off damage crits? why can’t it heal you and allies off damage crits? most healers drop element wall. having to slot crit surge that give brutality for self heals is crazy. dark magic heal not as good as power surge was. it has a goofy cast time. stamsorc get benefit of this skill but not magsorc dd?

Chilly-McFreeze

dubbmixx wrote: »

does power surge revert back to healing off damage crits? why can’t it heal you and allies off damage crits? most healers drop element wall. having to slot crit surge that give brutality for self heals is crazy. dark magic heal not as good as power surge was. it has a goofy cast time. stamsorc get benefit of this skill but not magsorc dd?

Crit surge will give major sorcery again, it was in PTS notes 5.2.0 from 10 days ago.

pierrenuiz

please give Crystal Fragments to StamSorc its one of best and fun skill of sorc
with the same mechanic but with something like a big lightning hammer hitting the enemy !!

Galarthor

Please make Rune Cage viable again. This means it has to be undodgable too. Range could be adjusted to compensate. And its secondary effect needs so adjustment as well, as it is basically non-existing. Players break the stun before it runs out. NPCs that can actually be stunned are dead before the stun runs out. Streak is not so infinitely more popular than Ball of Lightning b/c it is so much better as a Gap Opener, but b/c it is the only reliable stun available mag sorcs.

Also, it is about high time the Shield Bug gets fixed. How can it be that it still happens frequently that shields don't activate sometimes for several seconds despite not being stunned or silenced? This is very deadly in both PvP and PvE. And not only do you lose survivability, you also lose DPS because you are either spending several global cooldowns to finally get shields to work OR you are dead.

Mag Sorcs also need some adjustment with regard to sustain. The Cost increase to shields in U23 would require and additional 600 to 800 mag regen in PvP to compensate, which is not something you can get without seriously crippling your other stats and thus capability. I know the number is smaller for PvE where you have a drain of about 1500 if you have to use shields etc. But still, the problem remains.

Lord-Otto

Don't keep your hopes up for Rune Cage. Everythings is becoming melee range now, so you might as well stick with Streak.

fbours

I would love to see Stam sorcs being able to utilize their passives and have a ulti morhp. Currently most passives and ultis revolve around Magicka sorcs.

KageNin

The only thing Sorc needs is a Spammable,
Crystal Blast already works like Grim Focus except its %based and doesn't require prior activation
Make Bound Armaments into Bound sword and Bound (Spell?) Fo stam and magicka respectively.
That's all Sorc needs in its kit.

Galarthor

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Don't keep your hopes up for Rune Cage. Everythings is becoming melee range now, so you might as well stick with Streak.

True, but it would enable people to play without Streak and either use Ball Of Lightning morph or some other ability all together. And with the changes to Streak it will become very difficult to stun somebody at 15m range due to the small size at the tip of the cone and server lag / position issues. Also, the secondary effect could make it really worth-while to Rune Cage over Streak.

IIISYNIII

BalticBlues wrote: »

[quote="I HATE HAVING TO RELEARN THIS GAME EVERY 3 MONTHS"

^ this

Lord-Otto

Galarthor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Don't keep your hopes up for Rune Cage. Everythings is becoming melee range now, so you might as well stick with Streak.

True, but it would enable people to play without Streak and either use Ball Of Lightning morph or some other ability all together. And with the changes to Streak it will become very difficult to stun somebody at 15m range due to the small size at the tip of the cone and server lag / position issues. Also, the secondary effect could make it really worth-while to Rune Cage over Streak.

Hey, don't have to convince me, brother. I loved that skill in CwC, and it made Meteor on par with Dawnbreaker. I told people after Summerset they were overnerfing it, I thought about alternate changes... But we have to draw the conclusion range is not allowed in this game and the devs and vocal part of the community want this game to be a massive brawl.
Just one more reason why my enjoyment and playtime in ESO has diminished so drastically over the last two years.
*shrugs*

universal_wrath

Can we buff hurricane to 200%? Pets are underwhelming when comparing what they offer and what they do, I think they need an overhaul rework. Tormentor does decent dmg and actvie is good only for targets above 50%, active skill is useless to use against targest below 50% hp, why? Matriach is very bad dmg and active ability to heal, I basically waste 2 slots for 1 healing skill. Unstable clannfear is very bad even when it scales with max stamina now, only usefull when used on a tank for active healing ability, agaisnt wasting 2 slots for 1 healing ability. Unstable familiar is very bad dmg and good active skill. Why are pets still take 2 slits to use. All they dmg is not worth 2 slots at all. If people afriad of shield meats in pvp, make them umtargetable like the shadowrend monster set. Where are the flame, air, and frost atronachs? New bound armament while it is unique looking, it is dull.

Negate of both morph is very weak in pvp outside of coordimated group play, only silance magicka users and they dan jist walk away from
It. Both dmg and healing morphs are weak in term of dmg and healing. Crystal blast is cast time aoe not worth using over crystsl fragment proc that is 35% stronger and 50% cheaper and instant cast as well, shattering prison is expensive and does little dmg while restraining prison give you major vitality. While the major vility buff is akward to apply, it is definetly worth using ocer small dmg morph. Both morphs of rune prison are rarely used for the lack of things they do or how weak they are. Defensive rune is a waste cc in pvp as you stun peoplr whom you don't want and give them cc imunity missing up you combo and other is plain stun only, the secandy effect is weak and only apply to NPCs and not player. Rven if you apply the rune cage on an NPC they will most likely die before the srcanday effect actives, unless you are wainging idly for it to activate.

Overload is in a very wierd spot and almost never used in PvE because it's a dps loss. Why is it still considerer toggle when you removed all toggle skill in the game beside it. Make it active and let us wear ultimate related sets like master archetect. Or maybe bring back toggle skills. Mages wrath is not worth using over endless fury due to what fury does in sustain. Lightent form both morphs are eye sores, I spend so much time in outfit station to make my toon look badass, but when I use my hurricane, I can't see anything. Hurricane and new bound armament do not go together, both transperant making it very hard to now when bound armament reaches full stack and thus too hard to use.lightning flood vs liquid lightning, the first is supposed to be stronger than the second because it says that it does more dmg, but when you calculate the dmg of both skills, liquid lightning does more dmg beause it last longer. Why? Can we make them bit unique like 1 is ground aoe and other self AOE, ST dot, or target AOE dot like how inevitable det works.

Galarthor

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Don't keep your hopes up for Rune Cage. Everythings is becoming melee range now, so you might as well stick with Streak.

True, but it would enable people to play without Streak and either use Ball Of Lightning morph or some other ability all together. And with the changes to Streak it will become very difficult to stun somebody at 15m range due to the small size at the tip of the cone and server lag / position issues. Also, the secondary effect could make it really worth-while to Rune Cage over Streak.

Hey, don't have to convince me, brother. I loved that skill in CwC, and it made Meteor on par with Dawnbreaker. I told people after Summerset they were overnerfing it, I thought about alternate changes... But we have to draw the conclusion range is not allowed in this game and the devs and vocal part of the community want this game to be a massive brawl.
Just one more reason why my enjoyment and playtime in ESO has diminished so drastically over the last two years.
*shrugs*

So true. I used to PvP every day. Nowadays I barely play at all b/c combat is just no fun anymore. Every stam build is tank that can also deal amounts of damage that are equivalent to a DPS. In addition, gameplay overall is pretty stale. Skill is no longer rewarded but punished and it is all down to what sets and armor type you use - and due to that whether you play stam or were stupid enough to roll magicka. Sure there are occasionally very strong or even OP magicka builds, but they are short-lived accidents while stam has been overperforming across the board for years now.

They butchered sorcs identity long time ago when they nerfed the burst spikes so much that people hit by an unmitigated full rotation are not at risk of dying. Now recently they have done it to other classes as well and resulting in the outrage we currently see.

Also what's up with all those sustain nerfs? Sure they make sense in PvE where you have a drain of 1200 per second. But they are burtal in PvP where you can have a drain of 3000 per second. It's not really fun having to spam heavy attacks or Dark Conversion - especially if you have to spam it long before the over-time effect runs out. Templars got it at least on their armor buff or Wardens on their damage buff and neither can be interupted. So it comes naturally to them and does not really affect their gameplay.

NBrookus

Galarthor wrote: »

Please make Rune Cage viable again. This means it has to be undodgable too. Range could be adjusted to compensate.

You are asking for a ranged Fossilize, a skill which people complain and has been repeated nerfed in range to now be 7m.

41m Fossilize, especially on a burst high mobility class, was utterly, insanely OP. By the time you get the range down to reasonable, at that point you can use Streak or Fire Clench anyway.

Personally I felt like old Frag stun was a good compromise. Loved it as a sorc, and on the other end of the fight you could see the player had a proc up and knew they were just waiting to pop that stun. You could block or dodge it -- unless they took a risk and CC'd you with streak to land it. It was very dynamic gameplay that rewarded timing and skill on both ends.

universal_wrath

NBrookus wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Please make Rune Cage viable again. This means it has to be undodgable too. Range could be adjusted to compensate.

You are asking for a ranged Fossilize, a skill which people complain and has been repeated nerfed in range to now be 7m.

41m Fossilize, especially on a burst high mobility class, was utterly, insanely OP. By the time you get the range down to reasonable, at that point you can use Streak or Fire Clench anyway.

Personally I felt like old Frag stun was a good compromise. Loved it as a sorc, and on the other end of the fight you could see the player had a proc up and knew they were just waiting to pop that stun. You could block or dodge it -- unless they took a risk and CC'd you with streak to land it. It was very dynamic gameplay that rewarded timing and skill on both ends.

Range fossilize without immoblization, instant dmg , health absorbtion, passive stam return, passive ulti regen, passive weapon dmg. You get so much stuff for casting fossilize in compare to rune cage even when it was undodgable. For casting rune cage, you only get passive crit chance that is achieved by casting crystal fragment and delayed dmg if the stun last full duration. Rune cage was reliable when it was undodgable, but it was not on bar with fossilize and even more so after it was nerfed.

Icarus42

Am I missing something? What is the point of slotting Power Surge now that both morphs have Major Sorcery? Critical Surge has better heals and ticks more often. Why would anyone bother slotting Power Surge, cause it costs less to cast?

Does anyone else find this weird? I don't understand what they are thinking, now we have another useless skill.. Maybe they could at least give it minor intellect or something to make it worth while.

Also on a different note, to those of you thinking about posting your build on the forums, DON'T DO IT!!! ITS A TRAP! They find your post and then subsequently nerf said build. I will now be wearing my tinfoil hat for the duration..

Celestro

Icarus42 wrote: »

Am I missing something? What is the point of slotting Power Surge now that both morphs have Major Sorcery? Critical Surge has better heals and ticks more often. Why would anyone bother slotting Power Surge, cause it costs less to cast?

Does anyone else find this weird? I don't understand what they are thinking, now we have another useless skill.. Maybe they could at least give it minor intellect or something to make it worth while.

Also on a different note, to those of you thinking about posting your build on the forums, DON'T DO IT!!! ITS A TRAP! They find your post and then subsequently nerf said build. I will now be wearing my tinfoil hat for the duration..

Power Surge is for healers now, more or less. Critical Surge for DDs.

universal_wrath

universal_wrath wrote: »

Can we buff hurricane to 200%? Pets are underwhelming when comparing what they offer and what they do, I think they need an overhaul rework. Tormentor does decent dmg and actvie is good only for targets above 50%, active skill is useless to use against targest below 50% hp, why? Matriach is very bad dmg and active ability to heal, I basically waste 2 slots for 1 healing skill. Unstable clannfear is very bad even when it scales with max stamina now, only usefull when used on a tank for active healing ability, agaisnt wasting 2 slots for 1 healing ability. Unstable familiar is very bad dmg and good active skill. Why are pets still take 2 slits to use. All they dmg is not worth 2 slots at all. If people afriad of shield meats in pvp, make them umtargetable like the shadowrend monster set. Where are the flame, air, and frost atronachs? New bound armament while it is unique looking, it is dull.

Negate of both morph is very weak in pvp outside of coordimated group play, only silance magicka users and they dan jist walk away from
It. Both dmg and healing morphs are weak in term of dmg and healing. Crystal blast is cast time aoe not worth using over crystsl fragment proc that is 35% stronger and 50% cheaper and instant cast as well, shattering prison is expensive and does little dmg while restraining prison give you major vitality. While the major vility buff is akward to apply, it is definetly worth using ocer small dmg morph. Both morphs of rune prison are rarely used for the lack of things they do or how weak they are. Defensive rune is a waste cc in pvp as you stun peoplr whom you don't want and give them cc imunity missing up you combo and other is plain stun only, the secandy effect is weak and only apply to NPCs and not player. Rven if you apply the rune cage on an NPC they will most likely die before the srcanday effect actives, unless you are wainging idly for it to activate.

Overload is in a very wierd spot and almost never used in PvE because it's a dps loss. Why is it still considerer toggle when you removed all toggle skill in the game beside it. Make it active and let us wear ultimate related sets like master archetect. Or maybe bring back toggle skills. Mages wrath is not worth using over endless fury due to what fury does in sustain. Lightent form both morphs are eye sores, I spend so much time in outfit station to make my toon look badass, but when I use my hurricane, I can't see anything. Hurricane and new bound armament do not go together, both transperant making it very hard to now when bound armament reaches full stack and thus too hard to use.lightning flood vs liquid lightning, the first is supposed to be stronger than the second because it says that it does more dmg, but when you calculate the dmg of both skills, liquid lightning does more dmg beause it last longer. Why? Can we make them bit unique like 1 is ground aoe and other self AOE, ST dot, or target AOE dot like how inevitable det works.

I hope devs address some of the class skills and passives. I will keep bringing this every week and hopefully they read it and change something.