PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Sahidom

Here's my feedback on Bound Armament.

This is a demanding skill to fully utilize in a dual-bar rotation. Even when you double slot the skill and all the repetitive reactivating the skill, it contributed to over 14%+ of the damage parse (parse damage % varies); The skill was very strong when I parsed with only my bow (see below)



In this parse, I was testing how the skill functioned since it had a reactivate high up-time on the dual-bar rotation. The skill performed better than expected using only a bow. You were constantly reactivating the skill each time it was up. This can cause some challenges when you're trying to execute X number of skills within a handful of seconds to fully utilize the skill. This skill does not have a cleave effect e.g. hits multiple targets, so the skill is decent against ST but Shrouded Dagger has more damage potential despite the higher cost due to it's bounce.

This skill mechanic is a replica of another class's skill. It's similar to Crystal Frags but activates more frequently, as a designated spam skill. It's a very click-happy Crystal Frags for stamina users. This skill seemed more smoother to use with the bow where you have those rapid light attack followed by a burst hit from Bound Armaments.

GrimTheReaper45

Im sure this has been said by now but is giving stamsorc a copy of the nightblade kill REALLY the best way to improve class identity and give stamsorc its own unique gameplay.

Besides that it really doesnt even fit into the stamsorc current gameplay well.....

Svidrir

Bound armor ................... This is a big joke currently on the pts in any case will be totally useless in pvp (only interesting point the small bonus in life offered by the daggers)

the stam pets is even worse
(all good, I do not want pets
unless they are like the nech or the ghost: p)

universal_wrath

LeoSzilard wrote: »

CreepyPahuska wrote: »

I keep seeing requests of an instant-cast for Dark Exchange and its morphs. I think it would be a huge mistake.

This patch is about class identity, and one thing is sure : a skill with a cast time that does a huge burst of ressources is quite unique. I understand that sorcerers have sustain issues (it's not new) and that such a skill doesn't fit in a DPS rotation, but it's just not intended to.
Removing the cast time means nerfing the skill as well. That means you can probably say goodbye to the healing it provides, because having a single slotted burst heal ability would make the clanfear worthless. The burst of stamina/magicka would probably get a nerf aswell, with less "burst" and more "over time" ressources, which would actually totally change the purpose of this skill.
IMO, Dark Exchange is perfectly fine in its current state. As a sorc tank, I think it makes our gameplay very dynamic. It's not a stupid buff that you just activate and forget until it runs out. It let's you go from empty to full in a few seconds. It's tricky to use but very rewarding in exchange.
If you guys want to do something about the sustain issues of the sorcerers, you should look at things that are currently useless like the Rebate passive, because getting magicka back when your pet dies is useless considering that it never dies.

Fair points, but the animation should be fixed to match the longer cast time. I might be wrong, but the animation seems to still be from the old 1 second skill. I think it would help it feel better to extend the animation, instead of just tacking an extra 0.2s at the end. As it is now, the animation appears complete, but the channel isn't actually over.

Dark deal is 1 sec cast on PTS as supposee to 1.2 secs on live. I'm not sure if bugg or a change that was never mentioned in the patch note, but it shows 1 sec cast time on PTS. I had to jump multipale times between PTS, live, and patch notes to check the skill.

universal_wrath

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

Im sure this has been said by now but is giving stamsorc a copy of the nightblade kill REALLY the best way to improve class identity and give stamsorc its own unique gameplay.

Besides that it really doesnt even fit into the stamsorc current gameplay well.....

Not the best way, but it's something for stam sorc after being neglected for couple patches. I certainly like the PTS version than the live one. Though the skill scale better with max stam rather than either max stam or weapon dmg and that is an issue.

Ellyhan

Need spammable. I repeat NEED SPAMMABLE SKILL.

LeoSzilard

universal_wrath wrote: »

LeoSzilard wrote: »

CreepyPahuska wrote: »

I keep seeing requests of an instant-cast for Dark Exchange and its morphs. I think it would be a huge mistake.

This patch is about class identity, and one thing is sure : a skill with a cast time that does a huge burst of ressources is quite unique. I understand that sorcerers have sustain issues (it's not new) and that such a skill doesn't fit in a DPS rotation, but it's just not intended to.
Removing the cast time means nerfing the skill as well. That means you can probably say goodbye to the healing it provides, because having a single slotted burst heal ability would make the clanfear worthless. The burst of stamina/magicka would probably get a nerf aswell, with less "burst" and more "over time" ressources, which would actually totally change the purpose of this skill.
IMO, Dark Exchange is perfectly fine in its current state. As a sorc tank, I think it makes our gameplay very dynamic. It's not a stupid buff that you just activate and forget until it runs out. It let's you go from empty to full in a few seconds. It's tricky to use but very rewarding in exchange.
If you guys want to do something about the sustain issues of the sorcerers, you should look at things that are currently useless like the Rebate passive, because getting magicka back when your pet dies is useless considering that it never dies.

Fair points, but the animation should be fixed to match the longer cast time. I might be wrong, but the animation seems to still be from the old 1 second skill. I think it would help it feel better to extend the animation, instead of just tacking an extra 0.2s at the end. As it is now, the animation appears complete, but the channel isn't actually over.

Dark deal is 1 sec cast on PTS as supposee to 1.2 secs on live. I'm not sure if bugg or a change that was never mentioned in the patch note, but it shows 1 sec cast time on PTS. I had to jump multipale times between PTS, live, and patch notes to check the skill.

Are you sure? I swear I just looked at it last night. I'll have to double-check. If true, it would be a nice improvement.

universal_wrath

LeoSzilard wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

LeoSzilard wrote: »

CreepyPahuska wrote: »

I keep seeing requests of an instant-cast for Dark Exchange and its morphs. I think it would be a huge mistake.

This patch is about class identity, and one thing is sure : a skill with a cast time that does a huge burst of ressources is quite unique. I understand that sorcerers have sustain issues (it's not new) and that such a skill doesn't fit in a DPS rotation, but it's just not intended to.
Removing the cast time means nerfing the skill as well. That means you can probably say goodbye to the healing it provides, because having a single slotted burst heal ability would make the clanfear worthless. The burst of stamina/magicka would probably get a nerf aswell, with less "burst" and more "over time" ressources, which would actually totally change the purpose of this skill.
IMO, Dark Exchange is perfectly fine in its current state. As a sorc tank, I think it makes our gameplay very dynamic. It's not a stupid buff that you just activate and forget until it runs out. It let's you go from empty to full in a few seconds. It's tricky to use but very rewarding in exchange.
If you guys want to do something about the sustain issues of the sorcerers, you should look at things that are currently useless like the Rebate passive, because getting magicka back when your pet dies is useless considering that it never dies.

Fair points, but the animation should be fixed to match the longer cast time. I might be wrong, but the animation seems to still be from the old 1 second skill. I think it would help it feel better to extend the animation, instead of just tacking an extra 0.2s at the end. As it is now, the animation appears complete, but the channel isn't actually over.

Dark deal is 1 sec cast on PTS as supposee to 1.2 secs on live. I'm not sure if bugg or a change that was never mentioned in the patch note, but it shows 1 sec cast time on PTS. I had to jump multipale times between PTS, live, and patch notes to check the skill.

Are you sure? I swear I just looked at it last night. I'll have to double-check. If true, it would be a nice improvement.

That is what I saw, so I'm not entirely sure. It wasn't mentioned anywhere and nobody it talking about it, so I would assume that it is a UI issue on my end, but I will souble check again.

Urvoth

heaven13 wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Turns out this was left out on the patch notes.


That’s pretty cool. Gonna combo it with the psijic spammable and i’ll feel like a spellsword.

Unfortunately, this negatively effects sorc tanks. Block mitigation is really nice to have and losing it so stamsorcs have something...is there nothing else that can be done? They already don't have a huge disposable of useful tanking skills within their class. And before someone tells me to switch to Bound Aegis: sorc tanks use very little magicka skills. Switching to Bound Aegis which increases my max magicka is not super helpful.

If you're going to try to update classes to function like warden/necro with tanking, healing, and stamina/magicka versions, this is not the way to go about it. The class will need far more of a rework. Maybe when some additional tanking options are made available within class abilities, then it will be okay to do something like this with Bound Armanents. It's not okay now though. (And, by the way, sorctank functions fairly well at being a stamsorc dps when needed and this is ALSO not the way to give stamsorc identity).

Who cares about sorc tanks? If you’re tanking on sorc, you’re doing it wrong anyways.

heaven13

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

If you have 1.6-2k magicka recovery, i don't see a reason why bound aegis is an issue to use for you.

I made that post almost immediately after waking up and hadn't reloaded the page[4] so see others had already posted.

At that time I was responding to the comment about not having much magicka to use the block mitigation version of the skill, where they don't have a large supply of that pool to use it and their other magicka based abilities. I was just indicating that tanks that do focus on their magicka, opposite to stamina, shouldn't be ignored as a gameplay possibility.

For stamina Sorcerer tanks specifically, which I don't know much about myself, I think using inner Beast could help offset the magicka drain if not already using it, and then adding in enough magicka recovery might be enough to sustain the other utility skills (Encase/Streak/Surge). Spell symmetry is also an option.

I'm pretty sure people misread what I was saying. It wasn't that I didn't have enough magicka to cast the skill, it was that I preferred the stam version because it gives extra stamina and since more of my tanking abilities require stam, the increase to the max stats is more beneficial than an increase to my off-stat (mag).

I don't think magicka tanks should be ignored or that the Bound Aegis version should be the morph changed. I'd much prefer Bound Armanents being left alone, or maybe the entire skill being reworked as has been suggested so that either morph is useful for a tank and provides different versions of some kind of group utility since that's lacking for sorc tanks.

LeoSzilard

universal_wrath wrote: »

LeoSzilard wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

LeoSzilard wrote: »

CreepyPahuska wrote: »

I keep seeing requests of an instant-cast for Dark Exchange and its morphs. I think it would be a huge mistake.

This patch is about class identity, and one thing is sure : a skill with a cast time that does a huge burst of ressources is quite unique. I understand that sorcerers have sustain issues (it's not new) and that such a skill doesn't fit in a DPS rotation, but it's just not intended to.
Removing the cast time means nerfing the skill as well. That means you can probably say goodbye to the healing it provides, because having a single slotted burst heal ability would make the clanfear worthless. The burst of stamina/magicka would probably get a nerf aswell, with less "burst" and more "over time" ressources, which would actually totally change the purpose of this skill.
IMO, Dark Exchange is perfectly fine in its current state. As a sorc tank, I think it makes our gameplay very dynamic. It's not a stupid buff that you just activate and forget until it runs out. It let's you go from empty to full in a few seconds. It's tricky to use but very rewarding in exchange.
If you guys want to do something about the sustain issues of the sorcerers, you should look at things that are currently useless like the Rebate passive, because getting magicka back when your pet dies is useless considering that it never dies.

Fair points, but the animation should be fixed to match the longer cast time. I might be wrong, but the animation seems to still be from the old 1 second skill. I think it would help it feel better to extend the animation, instead of just tacking an extra 0.2s at the end. As it is now, the animation appears complete, but the channel isn't actually over.

Dark deal is 1 sec cast on PTS as supposee to 1.2 secs on live. I'm not sure if bugg or a change that was never mentioned in the patch note, but it shows 1 sec cast time on PTS. I had to jump multipale times between PTS, live, and patch notes to check the skill.

Are you sure? I swear I just looked at it last night. I'll have to double-check. If true, it would be a nice improvement.

That is what I saw, so I'm not entirely sure. It wasn't mentioned anywhere and nobody it talking about it, so I would assume that it is a UI issue on my end, but I will souble check again.

Wow, wow, wow! It does look like Dark Exchange got a ninja buff: back down to a 1 second cast time.

Morgul667

LeoSzilard wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

LeoSzilard wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

LeoSzilard wrote: »

CreepyPahuska wrote: »

I keep seeing requests of an instant-cast for Dark Exchange and its morphs. I think it would be a huge mistake.

This patch is about class identity, and one thing is sure : a skill with a cast time that does a huge burst of ressources is quite unique. I understand that sorcerers have sustain issues (it's not new) and that such a skill doesn't fit in a DPS rotation, but it's just not intended to.
Removing the cast time means nerfing the skill as well. That means you can probably say goodbye to the healing it provides, because having a single slotted burst heal ability would make the clanfear worthless. The burst of stamina/magicka would probably get a nerf aswell, with less "burst" and more "over time" ressources, which would actually totally change the purpose of this skill.
IMO, Dark Exchange is perfectly fine in its current state. As a sorc tank, I think it makes our gameplay very dynamic. It's not a stupid buff that you just activate and forget until it runs out. It let's you go from empty to full in a few seconds. It's tricky to use but very rewarding in exchange.
If you guys want to do something about the sustain issues of the sorcerers, you should look at things that are currently useless like the Rebate passive, because getting magicka back when your pet dies is useless considering that it never dies.

Fair points, but the animation should be fixed to match the longer cast time. I might be wrong, but the animation seems to still be from the old 1 second skill. I think it would help it feel better to extend the animation, instead of just tacking an extra 0.2s at the end. As it is now, the animation appears complete, but the channel isn't actually over.

Dark deal is 1 sec cast on PTS as supposee to 1.2 secs on live. I'm not sure if bugg or a change that was never mentioned in the patch note, but it shows 1 sec cast time on PTS. I had to jump multipale times between PTS, live, and patch notes to check the skill.

Are you sure? I swear I just looked at it last night. I'll have to double-check. If true, it would be a nice improvement.

That is what I saw, so I'm not entirely sure. It wasn't mentioned anywhere and nobody it talking about it, so I would assume that it is a UI issue on my end, but I will souble check again.

Wow, wow, wow! It does look like Dark Exchange got a ninja buff: back down to a 1 second cast time.

That d be cool

Vahrokh

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Twilight Matriarch... why healing buffed? we needed DPS buffed. Okay, Sorc healers will love it but honestly, at the level the Sorc healers play, they dont need such buff...

For PvP. It is actually a very good buff that will probably let magsorcs abandon Hardened Ward entirely and start building like other classes.

Yeah, that's "class diversity" for you. "building like other classes".

HowlKimchi

Vahrokh wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Twilight Matriarch... why healing buffed? we needed DPS buffed. Okay, Sorc healers will love it but honestly, at the level the Sorc healers play, they dont need such buff...

For PvP. It is actually a very good buff that will probably let magsorcs abandon Hardened Ward entirely and start building like other classes.

Yeah, that's "class diversity" for you. "building like other classes".

I think he meant buildcrafting and not being stuck with a single option.

Vahrokh

Beta player, with "subscription loyalty tiger here".

I finally gave up and unsubbed when the second Scalebreaker PTS was out.

With the proposed changes to pet magsorc, it will be a COLD DAY IN HELL before I sub again.

Svidrir

Bound armor
They would have done better to keep the armor thematic and give us a small armor buff at activation via a nech or ghost type animal that gives a bonus of 2000 armor resistance and spells (randomly given numbers)

universal_wrath

Urvoth wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Turns out this was left out on the patch notes.


That’s pretty cool. Gonna combo it with the psijic spammable and i’ll feel like a spellsword.

Unfortunately, this negatively effects sorc tanks. Block mitigation is really nice to have and losing it so stamsorcs have something...is there nothing else that can be done? They already don't have a huge disposable of useful tanking skills within their class. And before someone tells me to switch to Bound Aegis: sorc tanks use very little magicka skills. Switching to Bound Aegis which increases my max magicka is not super helpful.

If you're going to try to update classes to function like warden/necro with tanking, healing, and stamina/magicka versions, this is not the way to go about it. The class will need far more of a rework. Maybe when some additional tanking options are made available within class abilities, then it will be okay to do something like this with Bound Armanents. It's not okay now though. (And, by the way, sorctank functions fairly well at being a stamsorc dps when needed and this is ALSO not the way to give stamsorc identity).

Who cares about sorc tanks? If you’re tanking on sorc, you’re doing it wrong anyways.

I could say same thing about people who care about pet sorcs and stam sorcs since necro and wardes arein the game. You simply cannot ignore a whole sub class and hope for balance.

universal_wrath

LeoSzilard wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

LeoSzilard wrote: »

CreepyPahuska wrote: »

I keep seeing requests of an instant-cast for Dark Exchange and its morphs. I think it would be a huge mistake.

This patch is about class identity, and one thing is sure : a skill with a cast time that does a huge burst of ressources is quite unique. I understand that sorcerers have sustain issues (it's not new) and that such a skill doesn't fit in a DPS rotation, but it's just not intended to.
Removing the cast time means nerfing the skill as well. That means you can probably say goodbye to the healing it provides, because having a single slotted burst heal ability would make the clanfear worthless. The burst of stamina/magicka would probably get a nerf aswell, with less "burst" and more "over time" ressources, which would actually totally change the purpose of this skill.
IMO, Dark Exchange is perfectly fine in its current state. As a sorc tank, I think it makes our gameplay very dynamic. It's not a stupid buff that you just activate and forget until it runs out. It let's you go from empty to full in a few seconds. It's tricky to use but very rewarding in exchange.
If you guys want to do something about the sustain issues of the sorcerers, you should look at things that are currently useless like the Rebate passive, because getting magicka back when your pet dies is useless considering that it never dies.

Fair points, but the animation should be fixed to match the longer cast time. I might be wrong, but the animation seems to still be from the old 1 second skill. I think it would help it feel better to extend the animation, instead of just tacking an extra 0.2s at the end. As it is now, the animation appears complete, but the channel isn't actually over.

Dark deal is 1 sec cast on PTS as supposee to 1.2 secs on live. I'm not sure if bugg or a change that was never mentioned in the patch note, but it shows 1 sec cast time on PTS. I had to jump multipale times between PTS, live, and patch notes to check the skill.

Are you sure? I swear I just looked at it last night. I'll have to double-check. If true, it would be a nice improvement.

Ellyhan

Give us a spammable vigor and magic. Just that can change everything and give us an identity. All of other classe have a spammable skill. Not the sorcerer.

I like the bound armor of the PTS ! It's a real skill of conjuring now ! But give the same for magical can be cool.

Air Atro too for ulti' can be cool too. In vigor skill.

Change the Crystal Blast who is useless for make a vigor skill.

Maybe change Hauting curse for make it work on vigor too ! Can be cool.

Same for Overloard, right now the skill is scall on star of Staff Expert : Staff Expert Increases your damage done with Light and Heavy Attacks for Destruction and Restoration Staves, as well as Overload by 0%. Not cool, this skill can work on stam too ! I never understand why you give it this on Staff Expert And up this ulti ! or nerf it for give us again the 3rd bar action like before ! *o*

Maybe change Endless Fury for make it like spammanble ?

Rianai

Ellyhan wrote: »

Give us a spammable vigor and magic. Just that can change everything and give us an identity. All of other classe have a spammable skill. Not the sorcerer.

Isn't making a class the same as all others the opposite of giving it "class identity"?
Even more so when it means giving up actually unique class skills?

Kadoin

Rianai wrote: »

Ellyhan wrote: »

Give us a spammable vigor and magic. Just that can change everything and give us an identity. All of other classe have a spammable skill. Not the sorcerer.

Isn't making a class the same as all others the opposite of giving it "class identity"?
Even more so when it means giving up actually unique class skills?

You haven't learned on these forums that identity really means to give a class a ridiculous buff, only for it to get nerfed hard over the buff later down the line?

Ellyhan

Unique or Useless ? Give a spammable can just make it sure to the other classe to say "it's a sorcerer" because they can see a spammable skill. Actually i'm stamsorc and the other guy's think everytime i'm a NB. When I play my Warden I never get the same think. And I play stam too on it !

What do you play on spammable skill on you'r sorcerer ? Just for know ?

Ellyhan

Kadoin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Ellyhan wrote: »

Give us a spammable vigor and magic. Just that can change everything and give us an identity. All of other classe have a spammable skill. Not the sorcerer.

Isn't making a class the same as all others the opposite of giving it "class identity"?
Even more so when it means giving up actually unique class skills?

You haven't learned on these forums that identity really means to give a class a ridiculous buff, only for it to get nerfed hard over the buff later down the line?

Every DPS got a nerf for the next patch, doens't meen it's can not be possible to have what we need. Even if it's nerf for the next patch ! store your salt.

Kadoin

Ellyhan wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Ellyhan wrote: »

Give us a spammable vigor and magic. Just that can change everything and give us an identity. All of other classe have a spammable skill. Not the sorcerer.

Isn't making a class the same as all others the opposite of giving it "class identity"?
Even more so when it means giving up actually unique class skills?

You haven't learned on these forums that identity really means to give a class a ridiculous buff, only for it to get nerfed hard over the buff later down the line?

Every DPS got a nerf for the next patch, doens't meen it's can not be possible to have what we need. Even if it's nerf for the next patch ! store your salt.

Store salt, or store reality?

Okay, got it. I will let you guys make OP suggestions, and if ZOS listens to you, and you get nerfed later down the line because you have a spammable and two pets natively before accounting for any proc set pets, plus a skill that raises pet damage, plus the ability to get a large amount of mag and spell damage - all in a patch where active skills are rendered mostly meaningless and DoTs are as well and sustain is terrible, yet light attacks are still strong.

I will come here and reference this post. I will do so when the crying starts as well on live.

Ellyhan

Do what you want ! Actually it's going to change for have more stam than magic or make it 50/50. The DPS is to strong right now, the parse of the player make 100k + and so we have 0 difficulty for play de game and we don't make any strat. For mostelly donjons and raids it's "the strat : Burst it". Woww..

I don't think it's a bad think to nerf dot and aoe, just, they don't make it good and they make it with brutality. Light atk is strong too, but with the nerf of aoe/dot we going to come back at Clockwork City dps. So more real and more difficulty for all of us !

A spammable can not change anything if it's scall of the other spammable skill of other class like they make for all skill. I don't know why it's a bad think for you.

And I just expose my idea and my point for get a cool class for all player magic and stam ! With my experience of sorcerer since 2015 so. I try to make it work ^^

I don't care if they nerf ALL class, just if they focus one because the PVP boy cry.

Kadoin

Here is why a sorc spammable is a bad idea, for those that don't get it or think its a "crying" attempt from someone that plays both sorcs.

A. Spammables are typically direct damage, and on DK, NB, and templar they are melee. The classes these skills exist on also either have limited damage options and/or mostly have DoTs available or lower damage direct damage attacks not on the level of frags.

B. Spammables have a secondary effect in the game, exactly what secondary effect could be fair for a stam or mag sorc spammable considering the class passives?

It can't heal on strikes because amplitude, it can't give bonus damage, because again amplitude, it can't give minor resist debuffs because that trivializes stamplar in PvE, it can't give bonus shock damage because of the passives, etc. - the passives on the class make giving it a secondary effect a bad idea. But wait there is more

C. Scaling: what skill would serve as a baseline for the strength of such a spammable? Let's say its baseline was whip (not power lash).

DK cannot reach the same max mag as mag sorc no spell damage, and whip is "balanced" by the cost of the other skills DK has and that there is no other direct damage source that deals massive amount of damage like crystal frags. There are also no pets on the class, and the same is similar for templar. Warden pet is an ult, and warden's spammable is not melee and has a delay, and again there is no other skill that offers massive ranged damage. NB spammable offers utility and that's it, but it is, again a melee spammable and ironically not on the level of whip or jabs. NB's spammable also got nerfed.

D. DW Swords, 2H on Mag Sorc: Once ZOS introduces a spammable, in PvP there will be little reason to not run 2H or DW on a mag sorc. This is different from other classes for a number of reasons:

(1) mag sorc has massive shields, major evasion from DW is significant. Don't get me started on BRP DW, just don't.
(2) mag sorc has a native toolkit that is ranged, offering a melee option means that they would have both ranged and melee in their kit, except you have to remember there's also pets to factor into that equation
(3) sword bonuses, stacked with other bonuses, would be more significant on this class
(4) DW and 2H mag sorc is already powerful on live, you would essentially buff it

The trade-off would only be light attack damage on a mag sorc, but for stam sorc, no such trade-off would exist.

E. Proc set, gear combinations would make this class the go-to. There is so many I cannot even bother expanding on this. But the "build diversity" that would result, would only result because an OP skill was added to the game and result in nerfs later down the line.

So, considering this, what kind of spammable would ZOS even add? One that tickles?

If not, then we will have mag sorcs with two sources of massive direct damage when there is already little reason to invest in DoT damage on the PTS.

If its ranged, then mag sorc will have two ranged skills that are nukes, and one procs off the other?

If its melee, then mag sorc will have effective ranged attack and melee defense -- in addition to pets and shields. It would be a new "dimension" that would be OP once you take your class cheerleading blinders off or experience it yourself (it can be simulated now with a hybrid).

All that would result is that it will expose how unbalanced sorc passives actually are, just like dizzy got exposed when it was "fixed."

You know what will happen? It will result in sorc passives getting nerfed in exchange for a spammable that will also have to have its damage repeatedly toned down to account for crit surge (because it essentially will offer the same function as a magplars jabs with no channel when this skill is on), and the frag proc.

It's hard being a visionary sometimes.

ToRelax

Kadoin wrote: »

Here is why a sorc spammable is a bad idea, for those that don't get it or think its a "crying" attempt from someone that plays both sorcs.

A. Spammables are typically direct damage, and on DK, NB, and templar they are melee. The classes these skills exist on also either have limited damage options and/or mostly have DoTs available or lower damage direct damage attacks not on the level of frags.

B. Spammables have a secondary effect in the game, exactly what secondary effect could be fair for a stam or mag sorc spammable considering the class passives?

It can't heal on strikes because amplitude, it can't give bonus damage, because again amplitude, it can't give minor resist debuffs because that trivializes stamplar in PvE, it can't give bonus shock damage because of the passives, etc. - the passives on the class make giving it a secondary effect a bad idea. But wait there is more

C. Scaling: what skill would serve as a baseline for the strength of such a spammable? Let's say its baseline was whip (not power lash).

DK cannot reach the same max mag as mag sorc no spell damage, and whip is "balanced" by the cost of the other skills DK has and that there is no other direct damage source that deals massive amount of damage like crystal frags. There are also no pets on the class, and the same is similar for templar. Warden pet is an ult, and warden's spammable is not melee and has a delay, and again there is no other skill that offers massive ranged damage. NB spammable offers utility and that's it, but it is, again a melee spammable and ironically not on the level of whip or jabs. NB's spammable also got nerfed.

D. DW Swords, 2H on Mag Sorc: Once ZOS introduces a spammable, in PvP there will be little reason to not run 2H or DW on a mag sorc. This is different from other classes for a number of reasons:

(1) mag sorc has massive shields, major evasion from DW is significant. Don't get me started on BRP DW, just don't.
(2) mag sorc has a native toolkit that is ranged, offering a melee option means that they would have both ranged and melee in their kit, except you have to remember there's also pets to factor into that equation
(3) sword bonuses, stacked with other bonuses, would be more significant on this class
(4) DW and 2H mag sorc is already powerful on live, you would essentially buff it

The trade-off would only be light attack damage on a mag sorc, but for stam sorc, no such trade-off would exist.

E. Proc set, gear combinations would make this class the go-to. There is so many I cannot even bother expanding on this. But the "build diversity" that would result, would only result because an OP skill was added to the game and result in nerfs later down the line.

So, considering this, what kind of spammable would ZOS even add? One that tickles?

If not, then we will have mag sorcs with two sources of massive direct damage when there is already little reason to invest in DoT damage on the PTS.

If its ranged, then mag sorc will have two ranged skills that are nukes, and one procs off the other?

If its melee, then mag sorc will have effective ranged attack and melee defense -- in addition to pets and shields. It would be a new "dimension" that would be OP once you take your class cheerleading blinders off or experience it yourself (it can be simulated now with a hybrid).

All that would result is that it will expose how unbalanced sorc passives actually are, just like dizzy got exposed when it was "fixed."

You know what will happen? It will result in sorc passives getting nerfed in exchange for a spammable that will also have to have its damage repeatedly toned down to account for crit surge (because it essentially will offer the same function as a magplars jabs with no channel when this skill is on), and the frag proc.

It's hard being a visionary sometimes.

Eh. None of that really makes sense for the simple fact that there are, and have been, various options for spammables available to all classes. With the options we have rn, it also means we don't need one - it wouldn't hurt to have if there's space for it in the class skill trees, but again, it's not needed. And the main reason most sorcs run destro in pvp atm is because of ranged light attacks and ancient knowledge, not a spammable.

Kadoin

ToRelax wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Here is why a sorc spammable is a bad idea, for those that don't get it or think its a "crying" attempt from someone that plays both sorcs.

A. Spammables are typically direct damage, and on DK, NB, and templar they are melee. The classes these skills exist on also either have limited damage options and/or mostly have DoTs available or lower damage direct damage attacks not on the level of frags.

B. Spammables have a secondary effect in the game, exactly what secondary effect could be fair for a stam or mag sorc spammable considering the class passives?

It can't heal on strikes because amplitude, it can't give bonus damage, because again amplitude, it can't give minor resist debuffs because that trivializes stamplar in PvE, it can't give bonus shock damage because of the passives, etc. - the passives on the class make giving it a secondary effect a bad idea. But wait there is more

C. Scaling: what skill would serve as a baseline for the strength of such a spammable? Let's say its baseline was whip (not power lash).

DK cannot reach the same max mag as mag sorc no spell damage, and whip is "balanced" by the cost of the other skills DK has and that there is no other direct damage source that deals massive amount of damage like crystal frags. There are also no pets on the class, and the same is similar for templar. Warden pet is an ult, and warden's spammable is not melee and has a delay, and again there is no other skill that offers massive ranged damage. NB spammable offers utility and that's it, but it is, again a melee spammable and ironically not on the level of whip or jabs. NB's spammable also got nerfed.

D. DW Swords, 2H on Mag Sorc: Once ZOS introduces a spammable, in PvP there will be little reason to not run 2H or DW on a mag sorc. This is different from other classes for a number of reasons:

(1) mag sorc has massive shields, major evasion from DW is significant. Don't get me started on BRP DW, just don't.
(2) mag sorc has a native toolkit that is ranged, offering a melee option means that they would have both ranged and melee in their kit, except you have to remember there's also pets to factor into that equation
(3) sword bonuses, stacked with other bonuses, would be more significant on this class
(4) DW and 2H mag sorc is already powerful on live, you would essentially buff it

The trade-off would only be light attack damage on a mag sorc, but for stam sorc, no such trade-off would exist.

E. Proc set, gear combinations would make this class the go-to. There is so many I cannot even bother expanding on this. But the "build diversity" that would result, would only result because an OP skill was added to the game and result in nerfs later down the line.

So, considering this, what kind of spammable would ZOS even add? One that tickles?

If not, then we will have mag sorcs with two sources of massive direct damage when there is already little reason to invest in DoT damage on the PTS.

If its ranged, then mag sorc will have two ranged skills that are nukes, and one procs off the other?

If its melee, then mag sorc will have effective ranged attack and melee defense -- in addition to pets and shields. It would be a new "dimension" that would be OP once you take your class cheerleading blinders off or experience it yourself (it can be simulated now with a hybrid).

All that would result is that it will expose how unbalanced sorc passives actually are, just like dizzy got exposed when it was "fixed."

You know what will happen? It will result in sorc passives getting nerfed in exchange for a spammable that will also have to have its damage repeatedly toned down to account for crit surge (because it essentially will offer the same function as a magplars jabs with no channel when this skill is on), and the frag proc.

It's hard being a visionary sometimes.

Eh. None of that really makes sense for the simple fact that there are, and have been, various options for spammables available to all classes. With the options we have rn, it also means we don't need one - it wouldn't hurt to have if there's space for it in the class skill trees, but again, it's not needed. And the main reason most sorcs run destro in pvp atm is because of ranged light attacks and ancient knowledge, not a spammable.

And therein is the entire point. But the class spammable that others apparently want, will get you nerfed for something you possibly would not even slot.

Ellyhan

Like what ? Crystal Blast ? Endless Fury ? Only magic and not vigor. Add Spammable doesn't meen sorc' going to get nerf. I don't understand you'r point oO.

Maybe you don't need on but i'm not the only one who talk about this skill.

thechiefisback

"Area of Effect Damage over Time abilities will now once again mirror the damage of their single target counterparts, instead of dealing approximately 33% less damage. To ensure they do not always beat out their single target counterpart, they will now cost approximately 66% more resources per second to maintain than their single target counterparts, up from 30%."

"Lightning Splash:Increased the base duration of this ability and its morphs to 10 seconds, up from 8.Increased the base cost to 4950, up from 3024.Reduced the damage per tick by approximately 33%."
"Wall of Elements:Increased the base duration of this ability and its morphs to 10 seconds, up from 8.Increased base cost to 4950, up from 3024.Reduced the damage per tick by approximately 32%."

Can you explain that to me? I see where you increased the cost but where is the more damage? In fact you reduce the damage of aoes again. Why???
And why do you nerf the pet sorcs again?
My trading guilds already lose half of their members (probably gone to wow). It's always difficult to set up a raid since so many players left the game. And now you do this? Do you really want to improve the performamce by putting people off?
If this goes live I will find a new game for me I can play.