PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

blnchk

Tyrobag wrote: »

Please make Bound Armaments summon a bound weapon for you to Wield, not a couple of daggers taped to your ears...

I wan't to summon a weapon to swing at my enemies, in proper TES style.

It can even do the same effect as it does now, a stacking debuff on your enemies that does damage when you reactivate the ability. Just give us the proper bound weapon visuals we've wanted since launch.

This actually sounds awesome. Unique. Like something reminiscent of identity. The weapon should absolutely not function similarly to Grim Focus, but having StamSorcs summon their own glowy greatsword to use at melee range? Brilliant.

Lord_Sando

blnchk wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

Please make Bound Armaments summon a bound weapon for you to Wield, not a couple of daggers taped to your ears...

I wan't to summon a weapon to swing at my enemies, in proper TES style.

It can even do the same effect as it does now, a stacking debuff on your enemies that does damage when you reactivate the ability. Just give us the proper bound weapon visuals we've wanted since launch.

This actually sounds awesome. Unique. Like something reminiscent of identity. The weapon should absolutely not function similarly to Grim Focus, but having StamSorcs summon their own glowy greatsword to use at melee range? Brilliant.

this and at least give stam sorc a stam version of power overload and curse we need something at least.

CreepyPahuska

Zippy81 wrote: »

Sorc tanks lack abilities helping to survive in most difficult situations that dragonknights and necromancers have (magma shell and bone goliath ultimates). Perhaps an atronach could lower the dmg of enemies in its aoe or could protect the group from projectiles by X %.
The ultimate cost reduction is nice, however, self healing from surge isn't very reliable for tanks due to the crit restrictions for tanks. The identity here are pets but again they are not very useful. Max health when using pets and increased health and stamina recovery are unique passives.

We actually don't lack that kind of abilities. We have bound Aegis. 36% block mitigation is huge, and I'm actually glad we have that instead of an ultimate. Using ultimates for selfish stuff is a big waste IMO so I'm really happy we got a magicka based spammable survivability skill. This patch is about class Identity and in my humble opinion, sorcerer tanks have no identity issue, so I'm glad we're left out of that patch and I hope it'll stay that way.
We have the Negate, Hardened Ward, Bound Aegis, Restraining Prison, Boundless Storm, Streak... that's enough utility/tanking skill for me. I don't want less but I don't think we need more.

FrancisCrawford

Millz wrote: »

Can we just get a memorial for all stam sorcs in game?

One thing stamina sorcerers have that's really good is a double-dip into damage boosting passives. Another is ultimate cost reduction. So a natural approach for stamina sorcerers would be to play werewolves ... oops.

universal_wrath

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Millz wrote: »

Can we just get a memorial for all stam sorcs in game?

One thing stamina sorcerers have that's really good is a double-dip into damage boosting passives. Another is ultimate cost reduction. So a natural approach for stamina sorcerers would be to play werewolves ... oops.

Not even a werewolf, zos did a number on it this patch and made it even more useless and unplayable.

HowlKimchi

Has anyone actually tried parsing with the new stam sorc skill? Or has anyone tried PVP with the new skill?

Genuinely curious to see how it stacks up. I'm a magblade main and I'm interested in making a stam sorc next patch.

universal_wrath

I think it is a big problem when I only unlock 7-8 passives of my stamina class and leave the rest lock because I know damn well that they are of not use to me at all or I can't proc/use them if I want to.

Also while clanfear scale with max stam currently, it cost too much and it does way too little, and it still take 2 slots, same goes with other pets as well. Maybe mattiach is the only good pet now since they buff it's heal more, but that's it. It only heals, and it's dmg is a joke to say the least. Making pets dauble barred for what they do currently is not worth it.

Buffs/debuffs should be implemnted in the class. Currently, major brutality/ sorcery on surge which is standard buff. Minor prophicy on a passive that is hard to proc. Major berserk on an ultimate as a synrgy that only buff the synrgizer and atro while most ultis in the game provide either a buff to self alone or to self and group. Sorc atro only buffs 1 player and it's not the caster, needs to be locked at. Major vitality for 2 secs on an expensive clucky and hard to target skill. If you need more time of vitality, you need to it someone with the skill. Very limited use of skill makes it useless to use unless maybe tank for crowd control. DK have major mending on cast of shield for atleast 3 secs, now draw backs to the skill. Warden have passive that provides major mending when the drop below 40%...etc. currently. Sorc only benifit of from 1-2 buffs in its tool kit while it has 5. And there are no debuffs in the class to my knowledge.

Passive sustain is bad and heavy rely on active cast time sustain that is very telegraphed and easily interrupted.

Stam sorc is no longer the fasted class in the game since all other classes have access to minor/major expedition as well as other gap closers, speed bunoses or snares via new sets or in class toolkits. Making stam sorc slowest class in the game imo. Templar while it is considered slow, can have easy access to major expeditìon thus becoming faster than stam sorc already, if not enough, they can throw japs, burning light tor any snare in their toolkiys to cripple stam sorc. Not enough? New ecaplse it snare/immoblization on coolddown. Mag sorc have major expedtion and can use streak more often than stam sorc. Stam sorc identity as fastest class in the game needs to be looked at a bit.

While mag sorc have to potentioal to burst combo. Stam sorc is very lacking in that department. Only combos for stam sorc are old dizzy then ulti or ... i don't know.

Sorcerer have been heavily nerfed over ther years and it sames zos only think about one skill in the skill and ways to buff it and that is balt of lighting unmorphed skill.

SaucyMcSauceface

I had a play with my stamsorc today, looks like about a 10K dps loss on a 6mil dummy. That was limited testing though. WIll play around with news sets etc to see if there are better options.
Of the new options, the clanfear is useless. You lose two slots in order to gain 600-700 dps. If they want it to be viable, it needs to either get a damage boost by attacking more often, or by hitting for more when it does attack.
I love the bound armaments change though. We get the purple smoke back, and it adds functionality to a skill that was on the bar for the passive anyway. The nerf to dots hits stamsorcc hard though.

InvictusApollo

Lord_Sando wrote: »

blnchk wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

Please make Bound Armaments summon a bound weapon for you to Wield, not a couple of daggers taped to your ears...

I wan't to summon a weapon to swing at my enemies, in proper TES style.

It can even do the same effect as it does now, a stacking debuff on your enemies that does damage when you reactivate the ability. Just give us the proper bound weapon visuals we've wanted since launch.

This actually sounds awesome. Unique. Like something reminiscent of identity. The weapon should absolutely not function similarly to Grim Focus, but having StamSorcs summon their own glowy greatsword to use at melee range? Brilliant.

this and at least give stam sorc a stam version of power overload and curse we need something at least.

Lets assume that you have around 10k Physical Penetration. In that case it increases your damage output by around 7,5%.
If you use Power Overload it will simply do 7,5% less damage than it could... but if you slot Bound Armaments that buff LA damage by 11% (5% after nerf?). Since PO converts your LA, Bound Armaments will buff it enough to counter their damage drop from not having Spell Penetration.
As you can see you could slot Power Overload on your Stamsorc and get as good results from it as a Magsorc

Aedaryl

You definitively killed Pet sorcs gameplay.

Scamp didn't needed a nerf, and it's got nerf hammered.

Chilly-McFreeze

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Lord_Sando wrote: »

blnchk wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

Please make Bound Armaments summon a bound weapon for you to Wield, not a couple of daggers taped to your ears...

I wan't to summon a weapon to swing at my enemies, in proper TES style.

It can even do the same effect as it does now, a stacking debuff on your enemies that does damage when you reactivate the ability. Just give us the proper bound weapon visuals we've wanted since launch.

This actually sounds awesome. Unique. Like something reminiscent of identity. The weapon should absolutely not function similarly to Grim Focus, but having StamSorcs summon their own glowy greatsword to use at melee range? Brilliant.

this and at least give stam sorc a stam version of power overload and curse we need something at least.

Lets assume that you have around 10k Physical Penetration. In that case it increases your damage output by around 7,5%.
If you use Power Overload it will simply do 7,5% less damage than it could... but if you slot Bound Armaments that buff LA damage by 11% (5% after nerf?). Since PO converts your LA, Bound Armaments will buff it enough to counter their damage drop from not having Spell Penetration.
As you can see you could slot Power Overload on your Stamsorc and get as good results from it as a Magsorc

B.A. increases light attacks by 10% and stam still by 8% when fully leveled, just as info because I saw some people say it's nerfed down.

Anyway, even tho you're right it still doesn't excuses why we have no physical dmg ultimate.

Elwendryll

HaruKamui wrote: »

Has anyone actually tried parsing with the new stam sorc skill? Or has anyone tried PVP with the new skill?

Genuinely curious to see how it stacks up. I'm a magblade main and I'm interested in making a stam sorc next patch.

I spent way too much of my night parsing.
I tried in a full ranged rotation and in a full melee rotation.

To summarize:
40 seconds duration.
Up to 4 stacks. Can be cast early for less damage.
The full proc does more damage than a wrecking blow but less than a Focused Aim.
A Proc costs around 800 stamina for me.
Range of 28 meter.

So. Cheap ability that does about the damage of a spammable. It's nice to have, but it lacks damage in my opinion. On range where it could be very nice to have, it does less than snipe, so it's a loss of dps to use the active unless you lack sustain.

Didn't try in PvP, but it should be a bit more damage than an uppercut morph, at range, if every dagger hits. I say it's a nice option to have and it gives some flexibility.

Sad point is the visual and sound effect of the proc. It really misses impact.

Tyrion87

ZOS, why you left magsorc behind all other mag classes in terms of fun and identity? In PvE magsorc is NOT fun to play anymore. It is too dependent on pets in order to deal decent dmg (even "no-pet" builds include at least one...) and except for pets it just uses too few skills from a class toolkit. Currently it is the most generic class in PvE.

When you promised class identity changes, many people really hoped for something new and fresh that would reinforce magsorc uniqueness. Just like you did with bound armaments for stamsorcs which in my opinion is a step in right direction.

The class as a whole is in dire need of a spammable at this point, especially next patch when most of our dmg will come from spammables. Let's be honest.... every class should have a class spammable, both stam and mag, while other non-class spammables should be complementary and their use - situational.

Also buff mages fury because the skill is not good in PvE right now - what a pity the class has execute and doesn't use it because it's just too weak and not worth it...

Also, on the stream you clearly said that active part of bound armaments is not good so you changed it. If so, why you didnt do the same with the magicka morph? It's very wierd that sorcs slot it only for the passive effect while the active part is... just there and people don't even remember what it does.

Sustain... magsorcs already struggle with it and next patch it will be a nightmare if all the cost increases make it to live. As PTS has proved so far, rotation with at least two high-cost ground dots is not sustainable. Either make dark exchange instant finally or rework some of the useless passives like rebate.

Saril_Durzam

Stamsorc saw some few advances on identity. Nice.

Magsorc... meh, horrible sustain and DPS nerfed, not in a good place, my parses have been terrible and in most cases i decided to take everything out. Tried petsorc with HA and funny it was the less problematic of all them on sustain doing one HA per rotation, sometimes even 2, but the DPS was bad. Tried st dots like U23... bad. FInally i decided to leave Wall of Elements for vMA bonus, and use that and Degeneration as dots, and then spammable and proc with passive trait. Oh, also Daedric Prey.

Things to change/improve:

1 - Better spammable. Right now it´s lacking, or simply mediocre.
2 - Better sustain. Make Dark Pact instant and its beneficts to receive after 1 second (the cost payed instantly), for example.

CreepyPahuska

Tyrion87 wrote: »

It's very wierd that sorcs slot it only for the passive effect while the active part is... just there and people don't even remember what it does

It's no longer weird when you know that it's the DD sorcerers who only slot it for the passive effect. Bound Aegis is a tanking skill. I know sorcerer tanks aren't a popular thing, but we exist. Not every single skill in the sorc trees should be a DD skill you know...

Chilly-McFreeze

About Bound Armaments. Even if I try to ignore that the visual design looks a bit stupid...

It can be a bit hard to see how many daggers are up when Hurricane and a few AoEs are up and things get messy. It's nice that the icon changes when at least one dagger is summoned but could we get another cue, be it audio or icon, when it reaches full potential?

CreepyPahuska wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

It's very wierd that sorcs slot it only for the passive effect while the active part is... just there and people don't even remember what it does

It's no longer weird when you know that it's the DD sorcerers who only slot it for the passive effect. Bound Aegis is a tanking skill. I know sorcerer tanks aren't a popular thing, but we exist. Not every single skill in the sorc trees should be a DD skill you know...

Never saw a PvE DD use Clannfear, active Aegis, Encase... It's not like every skill in there is a dd skill.

Saril_Durzam

Twilight Matriarch... why healing buffed? we needed DPS buffed. Okay, Sorc healers will love it but honestly, at the level the Sorc healers play, they dont need such buff...

CreepyPahuska

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Never saw a PvE DD use Clannfear, active Aegis, Encase... It's not like every skill in there is a dd skill.

Yep, I agree. My point was just to make sure that the guy I quoted know that not all sorcerers slot bound aegis only for the passive effect. It is a tanking skill and it must remain a tanking skill

Thraben

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Sorcerer. Please read through all the changes in the patch notes and try them out on the PTS before providing feedback in this thread. Thank you!

Sorcerer
Daedric Summoning
1. Bound Armor:
Bound Armaments: Reworked this ability into an offensive skill. Activating the ability no longer grants Block Mitigation for 3 seconds, but instead puts a 40 second duration effect on you that summons a Bound dagger any time you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack, with a maximum of 4 weapons being able to be active at any given time. Reactivating the ability causes the weapons to prime and quickly seek your target after a short delay. The ability continues to passively increase your Maximum Stamina and damage dealt with Light Attacks.

1a) Mechanics I. As a poor man´s Grim Focus it does roughly what is is supposed to be doing. However, it scales badly with battle spirit, and thus won´t see much use in PvP (as people already mentioned earlier). To fix this, I´d suggest it does Oblivion Damage. Which it should be doing anyway because it´s NOT A ROCK but a bound weapon from oblivion. That way, PvE damage would go down a bit, but PvP damage would be increased a bit.

1b) Mechanics II. Unlike Grim Focus, a heavy attack does not count as 2 "stacks". I consider this a bug/ oversight.

1c) Mechanics III. Alternatively, I´d suggest to allow it to stack up to 6, instead of 4. This would make the skill more like a delayed burst, which would be needed.

1d) Visuals I. You can´t see the floating daggers from the First Person perspective. Since their visualization tells us WHEN we should use the skill, it´s basically unusable from that perspective. That alone warrants a change, if not

1e) Visuals II. You can´t see the daggers at bright daylight in the third person too well. They should have at least some small daedric portal violett cloud behind them. Furthermore, they should turn chaotically to increase their visibility.

1f) Visuals III. The bound daggers are generally not very popular. People would very much prefer a bound Great Weapon. Of course, we understand that you wanted to have a visualization of the stacks of used light attacks, and you wanted something that works in both melee and ranged, and which is not yes given to another class (NB -> bow, Templar -> spear), and thus the daggers were one of the few things left, as the bound sword is already a crafting set, Morkuldin.

That being said, a StamSorc is a very mobile class, and I´m pretty sure even the bow users among us would be totally okay if the skill would be a melee bound great weapon strike, as long as a gap closer is attached to its second activation. This would, however, create the same problems as in 1d). It was mentioned here in the thread that the skill could replace the equipped weapon with a bound one - this could be a solution.

1g) The skill needs a more spectacular "firing off" animation. Yes, it decreases dps, and yes, some people will not like the delay caused by the animation, but I just wanna see the character´s arm pointing forward to command the weapons to attack (IF you keep the floating daggers)


2) Charged Lightning (synergy): Fixed an issue where this synergy was not properly applying the Major Berserk to the Atronach it came from.

2) Please keep the Charged Lightning synergy for the Greater Storm Atronach, but replace it with a different synergy for the Charged Atronach because the Charged Atronach has no real purpose in its current form. Since our Negate has lost much of its value in PvP, being sidelined by Permafrost and Nova, and since you have transfered our AoE DPS role to the StamWardens, and deleted our manoevre buff role, StamSorcs struggle to find a place in group play. On the other hand, the game is in dire need of a "stamina negate", i.e. an AoE disarm skill.

Thus: Give the Charged Atronach a synergy that disarms (Stamina skills blocked) every player hit by its AoE attack for 2 seconds. You don´t need to change the visuals. It should be pretty clear to anyone that you can´t strike with your sword when you are being shocked.


3) Summon Unstable Familiar:
Reduced the damage of this ability and its morphs’ basic attack by approximately 17%.
Increased the cost of the special activate of this ability and the Volatile Familiar morph to 4500, up from 2808.
Increased the duration of the special activate to 10 seconds, up from 8.
The base cost of summoning these abilities has been streamlined to 3510.
Summon Unstable Clannfear (morph):
This morph’s damage now scales off your Max Stamina, rather than Magicka.
Decreased the cost of the special activate to 4500, down from 4808.
The Area of Effect attack now deals the same damage as the basic attack, but hits in a 6 meter radius, up from 5 meters.
Fixed an issue where the AoE attack would cause the Clannfear to re-evaluate its purpose in life for 1 second after casting, lowering its potential DPS.
Summon Winged Twilight: Increased the heal of this ability and the Twilight Matriarch morph to be closer to the heal power of Rushed Ceremony. This will result in approximately 87% increase for the base, and approximately 55% increase for the Matriarch. Note that these abilities will continue to scale exclusively with Max Magicka.

3) Stop wasting time on Pet balancing. Make them work like the Nightblade´s shade, including it´s one bar requirement and reduced dps, and be done with it.


[*]Storm Calling
4) Bolt Escape:
The fatigue from this ability and its morphs now apply only if you successfully teleport 1 meter or more, instead of whenever you activate the ability.
This ability and the Ball of Lightning morph no longer stuns targets in a 4 meter radius from your origin location, but instead stuns targets in a 6 meter radius at your final location.
Fixed an issue where you could become stuck in place after attempting to cast this ability or any of its morphs when a target was outside your line of sight.
Ball of Lightning (morph): This morph now ranks up in duration of the summoned ball of lightning, which now lasts 3 seconds at Rank IV, up from 2. This morph also adds 2 seconds of snare and immobilization immunity after teleporting.
Streak (morph): This ability now creates a cone behind you after casting that damage and stuns enemies inside of it. The length is now 17 meters with a 40 degree arc, rather than being a 4 x 15 meter rectangle. This means the ability will require more precise aiming when attempting to land on top of an enemy, but will require less precise aiming when attempting to cast near an enemy.


4) I didn´t feel any change to streak, but I like the Ball of Lightning changes.

5) Lightning Splash:
Increased the base duration of this ability and its morphs to 10 seconds, up from 8.
Increased the base cost to 4950, up from 3024.
Reduced the damage per tick by approximately 33%.

So... what´s the difference between the two morphs? Yeah, basically nonexisting. Make one a tornado-like Stam- morph with a slightly different synergy.

6) Surge: This ability and its morphs now grant Major Brutality and Sorcery at base.

Reasonable.

7) Overload. One year ago, you changed the skill for the first time in 4 years, and since then it has caused nothing but trouble. You have shown that you can revert stupid ideas with your Warden changes. Please revert it to its traditional state including our third bar.

Related skills:

8) Warhorn. As long as you don´t give us our old Overload bar back, we really need more bar space. You could give the third bar to Warhorn, this skill is being replaced by Wardens and Necros anyway.

9) Imbue Weapons. We should really use that skill now together with the bound armaments, but the server won´t let us. It´s just to laggy to use it the way it is supposed to be used. Please change the skill into a buff that last for 5 seconds and enhances all your light attacks.

10) Trapping Webs. The web area should be 6m OR the webs should stick as a negative effect - which explodes on expiration. This way, the synergy could be applied more reliably, and the skill would see more use.

heaven13

HaruKamui wrote: »

Turns out this was left out on the patch notes.


That’s pretty cool. Gonna combo it with the psijic spammable and i’ll feel like a spellsword.

Unfortunately, this negatively effects sorc tanks. Block mitigation is really nice to have and losing it so stamsorcs have something...is there nothing else that can be done? They already don't have a huge disposable of useful tanking skills within their class. And before someone tells me to switch to Bound Aegis: sorc tanks use very little magicka skills. Switching to Bound Aegis which increases my max magicka is not super helpful.

If you're going to try to update classes to function like warden/necro with tanking, healing, and stamina/magicka versions, this is not the way to go about it. The class will need far more of a rework. Maybe when some additional tanking options are made available within class abilities, then it will be okay to do something like this with Bound Armanents. It's not okay now though. (And, by the way, sorctank functions fairly well at being a stamsorc dps when needed and this is ALSO not the way to give stamsorc identity).

Chilly-McFreeze

heaven13 wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Turns out this was left out on the patch notes.


That’s pretty cool. Gonna combo it with the psijic spammable and i’ll feel like a spellsword.

Unfortunately, this negatively effects sorc tanks. Block mitigation is really nice to have and losing it so stamsorcs have something...is there nothing else that can be done? They already don't have a huge disposable of useful tanking skills within their class. And before someone tells me to switch to Bound Aegis: sorc tanks use very little magicka skills. Switching to Bound Aegis which increases my max magicka is not super helpful.

If you're going to try to update classes to function like warden/necro with tanking, healing, and stamina/magicka versions, this is not the way to go about it. The class will need far more of a rework. Maybe when some additional tanking options are made available within class abilities, then it will be okay to do something like this with Bound Armanents. It's not okay now though. (And, by the way, sorctank functions fairly well at being a stamsorc dps when needed and this is ALSO not the way to give stamsorc identity).

So you prefer to use even more stamina for a better block instead of buffing it with mag? You said it yourself, you use very little magicka somehow, so...

Morgul667

Can someone explain how bound arnament is now working? I dont understand fully how it goes

Do we need to stack 4 light attacks before it reaches its potential? Then what?

Press it and have a dot? For how long?

Can we have the dot active while building new stack?

Do we still have the 8% stamina bonus?

Miswar

To summarize the notes. F the sorcs.. no buffs and just extra crap in terms of sustain... how suprising from ZoS.

Glad I spend my gaming time with other products and highly recommend everyone else do the same.

Chilly-McFreeze

Morgul667 wrote: »

Can someone explain how bound arnament is now working? I dont understand fully how it goes

Do we need to stack 4 light attacks before it reaches its potential? Then what?

Press it and have a dot? For how long?

Can we have the dot active while building new stack?

Do we still have the 8% stamina bonus?

@Morgul667
You still have 8% stam und 10% light attack bonus. (formerly 11%)
You activate it once. Then every light attack creates a dagger, up to 4.
You can fire them at will, you don't need to wait till you have all 4, but if you active it again all your current daggers are fired.
They do damage every 0.3seconds. So if you use all 4 the damage spreads ofer 1.2 seconds.

It procs Expert Summoner (health) but not Rebate (Resource return), Hunt leader or Necropotence.
Dmg lies a bit over Dizzy Swing but under Grim Focus.
Weaves a bit strangely after firing off, but could be the server.

Morgul667

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Can someone explain how bound arnament is now working? I dont understand fully how it goes

Do we need to stack 4 light attacks before it reaches its potential? Then what?

Press it and have a dot? For how long?

Can we have the dot active while building new stack?

Do we still have the 8% stamina bonus?

@Morgul667
You still have 8% stam und 10% light attack bonus. (formerly 11%)
You activate it once. Then every light attack creates a dagger, up to 4.
You can fire them at will, you don't need to wait till you have all 4, but if you active it again all your current daggers are fired.
They do damage every 0.3seconds. So if you use all 4 the damage spreads ofer 1.2 seconds.

It procs Expert Summoner (health) but not Rebate (Resource return), Hunt leader or Necropotence.
Dmg lies a bit over Dizzy Swing but under Grim Focus.
Weaves a bit strangely after firing off, but could be the server.

Thanks

Appreciate the reply

Ps: that could go well with imbued weapon or overload ?

Lord_Sando

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Lord_Sando wrote: »

blnchk wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

Please make Bound Armaments summon a bound weapon for you to Wield, not a couple of daggers taped to your ears...

I wan't to summon a weapon to swing at my enemies, in proper TES style.

It can even do the same effect as it does now, a stacking debuff on your enemies that does damage when you reactivate the ability. Just give us the proper bound weapon visuals we've wanted since launch.

This actually sounds awesome. Unique. Like something reminiscent of identity. The weapon should absolutely not function similarly to Grim Focus, but having StamSorcs summon their own glowy greatsword to use at melee range? Brilliant.

this and at least give stam sorc a stam version of power overload and curse we need something at least.

Lets assume that you have around 10k Physical Penetration. In that case it increases your damage output by around 7,5%.
If you use Power Overload it will simply do 7,5% less damage than it could... but if you slot Bound Armaments that buff LA damage by 11% (5% after nerf?). Since PO converts your LA, Bound Armaments will buff it enough to counter their damage drop from not having Spell Penetration.
As you can see you could slot Power Overload on your Stamsorc and get as good results from it as a Magsorc

This is true but the limiting factor with a stam sorc us is using power overload is that it does not scale correctly with cp due to the damage type same with streak scaling

heaven13

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Turns out this was left out on the patch notes.


That’s pretty cool. Gonna combo it with the psijic spammable and i’ll feel like a spellsword.

Unfortunately, this negatively effects sorc tanks. Block mitigation is really nice to have and losing it so stamsorcs have something...is there nothing else that can be done? They already don't have a huge disposable of useful tanking skills within their class. And before someone tells me to switch to Bound Aegis: sorc tanks use very little magicka skills. Switching to Bound Aegis which increases my max magicka is not super helpful.

If you're going to try to update classes to function like warden/necro with tanking, healing, and stamina/magicka versions, this is not the way to go about it. The class will need far more of a rework. Maybe when some additional tanking options are made available within class abilities, then it will be okay to do something like this with Bound Armanents. It's not okay now though. (And, by the way, sorctank functions fairly well at being a stamsorc dps when needed and this is ALSO not the way to give stamsorc identity).

So you prefer to use even more stamina for a better block instead of buffing it with mag? You said it yourself, you use very little magicka somehow, so...

What buffs can I apply with magicka? Wall of Elements? Done. Surge (for myself)? Also done. Occasionally I run encase for trash packs or tanking vFL for the shalks. A LOT of stuff tanks use cost stam, not just blocking. Silver leash got a cost increase last patch and, as the only source of chains, it can be draining.

If I could run dark deal, maybe sure, lemme switch to Bound Aegis but trying to squeeze in that cast doesn't always work. Meditate works better when trying to get resources because you don't get stuck in a weird animation and then have your bar swap not register because it was still canceling a cast channel. Hurricane = stamina. Hardened ward scales off max magicka but I'm certainly not increasing my magicka just to run a better shield when I can use bone surge instead which costs stam, provides group utility, and scales off health.

So the point is the few magicka skills I do use, I don't need increased magicka by 5% because I do not have a sustain problem with magicka.

Chilly-McFreeze

heaven13 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Turns out this was left out on the patch notes.


That’s pretty cool. Gonna combo it with the psijic spammable and i’ll feel like a spellsword.

Unfortunately, this negatively effects sorc tanks. Block mitigation is really nice to have and losing it so stamsorcs have something...is there nothing else that can be done? They already don't have a huge disposable of useful tanking skills within their class. And before someone tells me to switch to Bound Aegis: sorc tanks use very little magicka skills. Switching to Bound Aegis which increases my max magicka is not super helpful.

If you're going to try to update classes to function like warden/necro with tanking, healing, and stamina/magicka versions, this is not the way to go about it. The class will need far more of a rework. Maybe when some additional tanking options are made available within class abilities, then it will be okay to do something like this with Bound Armanents. It's not okay now though. (And, by the way, sorctank functions fairly well at being a stamsorc dps when needed and this is ALSO not the way to give stamsorc identity).

So you prefer to use even more stamina for a better block instead of buffing it with mag? You said it yourself, you use very little magicka somehow, so...

What buffs can I apply with magicka? Wall of Elements? Done. Surge (for myself)? Also done. Occasionally I run encase for trash packs or tanking vFL for the shalks. A LOT of stuff tanks use cost stam, not just blocking. Silver leash got a cost increase last patch and, as the only source of chains, it can be draining.

If I could run dark deal, maybe sure, lemme switch to Bound Aegis but trying to squeeze in that cast doesn't always work. Meditate works better when trying to get resources because you don't get stuck in a weird animation and then have your bar swap not register because it was still canceling a cast channel. Hurricane = stamina. Hardened ward scales off max magicka but I'm certainly not increasing my magicka just to run a better shield when I can use bone surge instead which costs stam, provides group utility, and scales off health.

So the point is the few magicka skills I do use, I don't need increased magicka by 5% because I do not have a sustain problem with magicka.

In other words. If you use so much stamina anyways, wouldn't it be better to ease that drain by having your block mitigation buff costing magicka? That's why many prefer Aegis as the tank morph, because it costs mag. As a tank your stat pools are small anyway, so 8% won't make too much of a difference.

Zippy81

CreepyPahuska wrote: »

Zippy81 wrote: »

Sorc tanks lack abilities helping to survive in most difficult situations that dragonknights and necromancers have (magma shell and bone goliath ultimates). Perhaps an atronach could lower the dmg of enemies in its aoe or could protect the group from projectiles by X %.
The ultimate cost reduction is nice, however, self healing from surge isn't very reliable for tanks due to the crit restrictions for tanks. The identity here are pets but again they are not very useful. Max health when using pets and increased health and stamina recovery are unique passives.

We actually don't lack that kind of abilities. We have bound Aegis. 36% block mitigation is huge, and I'm actually glad we have that instead of an ultimate. Using ultimates for selfish stuff is a big waste IMO so I'm really happy we got a magicka based spammable survivability skill. This patch is about class Identity and in my humble opinion, sorcerer tanks have no identity issue, so I'm glad we're left out of that patch and I hope it'll stay that way.
We have the Negate, Hardened Ward, Bound Aegis, Restraining Prison, Boundless Storm, Streak... that's enough utility/tanking skill for me. I don't want less but I don't think we need more.

The abilities I had in mind were ultimates. DKs and necros can use those ultimate as last resort when they run out of stamina and magicka, when buffing the group isn't that necessary as simply surviving a fight. A dragonknight will even get stam/mag returned whereas necros will heal themselves. To use bound aegis you need to use 4k magicka and it works only for 3 seconds. Even wardens, templars and nightblades have cool cheap healing abilities with extra perks attached to them. Sorcerers have negate/absorbtion field which only heals because fighting a boss the stun will not work.

Elwendryll

heaven13 wrote: »

So the point is the few magicka skills I do use, I don't need increased magicka by 5% because I do not have a sustain problem with magicka.

Most utility skills should have their cost in magicka, I don't have a sustain issue in magicka too, that's why I like that it costs magicka. For a pure tanking perspective, spending extra stamina for blocking isn't particularly good.

I occasionnaly tank on my Khajiit Stamsorc DD, some DLC HMs, with Yolna/Alkosh etc... And If I use bound armaments it's purely because I don't want to change morphs. I recently made a nord sorcerer for tanking, and I was going for bound aegis anyway. Spending magicka makes so much more sense for an utility like that. This skill is used when you have big incoming damage, you don't want to have to use it when you're low on stamina. With magicka, you don't care, you have plenty of it.