PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Chilly-McFreeze

Puh, I really don't like how Ball of Lightning now stuns at the end position. What sense does it make?
Streak was for offensive use, BoL for defense, obviously. Or else there wouldn't be that absorb effect. Now I can't get rid of melee enemies using it.

Not sure what I should think about Streak. Haven't tested that enough. And surely, latency will make it harder to use.
However, I like that I don't get punished by fatigue when Streak failes to fire.

Ellyhan

More stam morph. I like the stam pet for the next maj. But really need to change curse for make it work in stam and magic build !

And an other skill like cristal morph... For more indentity class ! right now, i'm stam sorcerer and I have only the bounty armor in my bar and front bar. Come on. I don't feel like sorcerer.

When the other guy's ask me "what do you play ?" I say "Stam." and they said "stam what ?" ................

"ONLY DD STAM ! Don't need to know my class, I have 0 skill of it in my rota."

._.'

Saril_Durzam

As ive checked...

Magsorc DPS is even worse. The vollatile pet double nerf hurts. Sustain was an issue earlier, now its much worse considering ST dots nerf puts you back to "old" AOE dots which has suffered a high cost increase. Even using mag regen food and a sustain set, it´s barely manageable and need to include Heavy Attacks to keep sustained, with the loss of more DPS. Oh, btw, Shock loses most of the utility considering how easy is nowadays to put enemies Off Balance.

Magsorc healer role has improved a bit with new Matriarch (heals go from 8k t o12k now) but the class itself is still miles away from Templars and Wardens.

Surge coming back to what it was, is good due Degeneration is not a must anymore (btw, missing alot the mag regen of it).

Didn´t test Streak enough for looks like its harder to stun people at melee.

To sum it up: the class isn´t fun anymore to play, pets are totally nerfed in DPS content (Tormentor needs a buff urgently and Vollatile needs to get back to where it was), and overall DPS of the class is going down. It wasnt the best one and now it´s even worse. I know most classes have lost DPS but they were still ahead and will stay this way. Sustain is HORRIBLE even with sustain set which is aswell a DPS loss. Inferior DPS sets to stamina also doesnt help.

I dont care much about "class identity" as long as the class is fun and effective. Now it´s not. Not really many reasons to play it.

Apart from that, i like that overall DPS has been toned down, which will mean harder content. I expected though that Sorcerer class was more in line with other DPS toons but it´s not. Tank and healer Sorcerers are subpar and there is not tank or healer skill lines so this class, meant to excel at DPS, does not. Bad sign and right now, bad job from the developers.

Suggestions:

1 - improve sustain. Give ways to recover magicka into our skills. Create a stam/magicka class spammable that gives sustain back would be a solution. Make Dark Pact instant, even if it costs more or heals less.

2 - Also, some class damage skills are not in par with other classes which also have better options to go other roles than Sorcerer. Buff them or add new effects that benefict group or hindrance enemies.

3 - pets taking one bar. They´re bad enough now so you can afford it.

4 - Stamina sorcerers keep missing group utility.

Ellyhan

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

As ive checked...

Magsorc DPS is even worse. The vollatile pet double nerf hurts. Sustain was an issue earlier, now its much worse considering ST dots nerf puts you back to "old" AOE dots which has suffered a high cost increase. Even using mag regen food and a sustain set, it´s barely manageable and need to include Heavy Attacks to keep sustained, with the loss of more DPS. Oh, btw, Shock loses most of the utility considering how easy is nowadays to put enemies Off Balance.

Magsorc healer role has improved a bit with new Matriarch (heals go from 8k t o12k now) but the class itself is still miles away from Templars and Wardens.

Surge coming back to what it was, is good due Degeneration is not a must anymore (btw, missing alot the mag regen of it).

Didn´t test Streak enough for looks like its harder to stun people at melee.

To sum it up: the class isn´t fun anymore to play, pets are totally nerfed in DPS content (Tormentor needs a buff urgently and Vollatile needs to get back to where it was), and overall DPS of the class is going down. It wasnt the best one and now it´s even worse. I know most classes have lost DPS but they were still ahead and will stay this way. Sustain is HORRIBLE even with sustain set which is aswell a DPS loss. Inferior DPS sets to stamina also doesnt help.

I dont care much about "class identity" as long as the class is fun and effective. Now it´s not. Not really many reasons to play it.

Apart from that, i like that overall DPS has been toned down, which will mean harder content. I expected though that Sorcerer class was more in line with other DPS toons but it´s not. Tank and healer Sorcerers are subpar and there is not tank or healer skill lines so this class, meant to excel at DPS, does not. Bad sign and right now, bad job from the developers.

Suggestions:

1 - improve sustain. Give ways to recover magicka into our skills. Create a stam/magicka class spammable that gives sustain back would be a solution. Make Dark Pact instant, even if it costs more or heals less.

2 - Also, some class damage skills are not in par with other classes which also have better options to go other roles than Sorcerer. Buff them or add new effects that benefict group or hindrance enemies.

3 - pets taking one bar. They´re bad enough now so you can afford it.

4 - Stamina sorcerers keep missing group utility.

I agree for all except you'r first point. Mage sorc' pet is still good and make good dps. I got a friend in my guild who still make good parse with it. so...

Canned_Apples

Unfortunately, Bound Armaments doesn't have quite the same impact as Grim Focus.. It's too weak, and the sound and visual effects are severely lacking.

I also have to agree with the others that say that it would've been better if it functioned like crystal frags- an ability with a 1 second cast time that conjures and fires the daggers w/o a proc and instantly conjures, fires and does increased damage with a proc.
-the light attack mini-game is so tedious. at least this way it'll actually see more use instead of being a passive "while slotted" ability.

Tannus15

Ok, so this is really really bad.

Here is a parse from my live mag sorc:

Perfected False God, Mechanical Acuity, Zaan. Shadow mundas, 2 stat blue food.



If I run mothers sorrow instead of acuity I get basically the same result, i just like acuity, personal preference, whatever.

So here is a parse from PTS:



Here I'm running mothers sorrow instead of acuity, but the rest is exactly the same.

Sustain was horrible, dps was horrible, everything is bad.

I cut all the dots from my build except wall of elements and swapped my CP to direct damage and ran parse food: I want to emphasise that this is NOT a viable build. I have 12k max health.



I'm not given to molodrama or hyperbole but this patch WILL kill my guild.
If it goes live in this state I will not be playing ESO any more.
My progression guild will be dead and my social guild will lose all their officers and organisers.

Nicalas

Bound Armaments does way too little damage. Daggers are hitting for around 800 in duels and do not warrant the consumption of the GCD.

Streak is really bad. I was unable to be stunned even tho the animation clipped me. Ball Lightning seems to be working well.

With the butchering of Dizzy and DOT skills being a complete waste of resources.(450 damage poison injection, 900 damage Rending slashes w/Master's DW) I find myself searching for skills that add something to my build. There is just nothing that fits.

Saril_Durzam

Ellyhan wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

As ive checked...

Magsorc DPS is even worse. The vollatile pet double nerf hurts. Sustain was an issue earlier, now its much worse considering ST dots nerf puts you back to "old" AOE dots which has suffered a high cost increase. Even using mag regen food and a sustain set, it´s barely manageable and need to include Heavy Attacks to keep sustained, with the loss of more DPS. Oh, btw, Shock loses most of the utility considering how easy is nowadays to put enemies Off Balance.

Magsorc healer role has improved a bit with new Matriarch (heals go from 8k t o12k now) but the class itself is still miles away from Templars and Wardens.

Surge coming back to what it was, is good due Degeneration is not a must anymore (btw, missing alot the mag regen of it).

Didn´t test Streak enough for looks like its harder to stun people at melee.

To sum it up: the class isn´t fun anymore to play, pets are totally nerfed in DPS content (Tormentor needs a buff urgently and Vollatile needs to get back to where it was), and overall DPS of the class is going down. It wasnt the best one and now it´s even worse. I know most classes have lost DPS but they were still ahead and will stay this way. Sustain is HORRIBLE even with sustain set which is aswell a DPS loss. Inferior DPS sets to stamina also doesnt help.

I dont care much about "class identity" as long as the class is fun and effective. Now it´s not. Not really many reasons to play it.

Apart from that, i like that overall DPS has been toned down, which will mean harder content. I expected though that Sorcerer class was more in line with other DPS toons but it´s not. Tank and healer Sorcerers are subpar and there is not tank or healer skill lines so this class, meant to excel at DPS, does not. Bad sign and right now, bad job from the developers.

Suggestions:

1 - improve sustain. Give ways to recover magicka into our skills. Create a stam/magicka class spammable that gives sustain back would be a solution. Make Dark Pact instant, even if it costs more or heals less.

2 - Also, some class damage skills are not in par with other classes which also have better options to go other roles than Sorcerer. Buff them or add new effects that benefict group or hindrance enemies.

3 - pets taking one bar. They´re bad enough now so you can afford it.

4 - Stamina sorcerers keep missing group utility.

I agree for all except you'r first point. Mage sorc' pet is still good and make good dps. I got a friend in my guild who still make good parse with it. so...

The nerf on damage wasnt horrible (16%), it´s the extra 2k mag on activation which hurts. Sustain is going to be a pain. Tormentor sucks and stays unchanged so... petsorc DPS will get a hit. Also, Wall of Elements got a big cost increase, and i understand that ST Dots will dissapear from rotation, but we also lose Degeneration magicka recovery. So, im not sure which build your friend is doing on the PST but things dont look great.

Okay, maybe and just maybe as i didnt have time to test it, we could try an old petsorc HA build to overcome sustain issues; after all, it´s pet cost nerf more than damage. Still, i think the result wont be shining. Futhermore, Lightning staff is much worse in group utility now as there are many ways of getting "off balance" state.

MurderMostFoul

No class Stam spammable has always been one of the biggest gameplay/identity issues with Stamsorc.

Now, in an attempt to give Stamsorc some identity, ZOS doesn't provide a class spammable and also nerfs the two available weapon spammables? Kinda W.T.F. really.

SFDB

I'd like to post this as a general response to the class/weapon/guild changes, but since I can't I'll post it here since I main a Sorc and fixing that would make me happy at least.

There's nothing here that excites me. At all. I'm satisfied that FINALLY the Major Sorcery issue has been addressed, although it shouldn't have taken three months. But that doesn't excite me, that's just mopping up the mess from before.

You need to nerf for whatever agenda you're pursuing? That's fine, we'll eat our vegetables. But there's no cake and ice cream on the other side of it. This class identity stuff that was the first thing I was optimistic about over the past six weeks is effectively nonexistent. The most you had to talk about was nerfing pets again and changes to the power that lets us run away, which appropriately is starting to seem like a good idea.

There's no point in choking down our greens if there's nothing for dessert.

Tyrobag

Please make Bound Armaments summon a bound weapon for you to Wield, not a couple of daggers taped to your ears...

I wan't to summon a weapon to swing at my enemies, in proper TES style.

It can even do the same effect as it does now, a stacking debuff on your enemies that does damage when you reactivate the ability. Just give us the proper bound weapon visuals we've wanted since launch.

Elwendryll

Tyrobag wrote: »

Please make Bound Armaments summon a bound weapon for you to Wield, not a couple of daggers taped to your ears...

I wan't to summon a weapon to swing at my enemies, in proper TES style.

It can even do the same effect as it does now, a stacking debuff on your enemies that does damage when you reactivate the ability. Just give us the proper bound weapon visuals we've wanted since launch.

Except this one is ranged? Bound bow? Would look a lot like an existing ability... Hmmm.

Morgul667

I dont get it zos

Chilly-McFreeze

Elwendryll wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

Please make Bound Armaments summon a bound weapon for you to Wield, not a couple of daggers taped to your ears...

I wan't to summon a weapon to swing at my enemies, in proper TES style.

It can even do the same effect as it does now, a stacking debuff on your enemies that does damage when you reactivate the ability. Just give us the proper bound weapon visuals we've wanted since launch.

Except this one is ranged? Bound bow? Would look a lot like an existing ability... Hmmm.

Kinda brings up the question why it has to be ranged anyway. Also, I've trouble fitting it into any meaningful combination on my build.

Argh, I just want a stam curse to pair with Dizzy.

HowlKimchi

Tyrobag wrote: »

Please make Bound Armaments summon a bound weapon for you to Wield, not a couple of daggers taped to your ears...

I wan't to summon a weapon to swing at my enemies, in proper TES style.

It can even do the same effect as it does now, a stacking debuff on your enemies that does damage when you reactivate the ability. Just give us the proper bound weapon visuals we've wanted since launch.

It could be cool if they used something similar to the Expert Hunter animation to make the weapon glow for each stack, then use the psijic order spammable's animation to launch the stacks.

thermatico

StamSorcs got a pet... lmao - This is so off-base of what StamSorcs were wanting. It's almost an embarrassing offering between the cost and the pet damage you are just wasting a skill that no one will ever put on their StamSorc bar.

HowlKimchi

thermatico wrote: »

StamSorcs got a pet... lmao - This is so off-base of what StamSorcs were wanting. It's almost an embarrassing offering between the cost and the pet damage you are just wasting a skill that no one will ever put on their StamSorc bar.

Bound Armaments also got changed apparently but is not in the patch notes.

Saril_Durzam

After a few more tests on PST with magh sorc.

DPS Is nerfed, indeed. By a quite quantity. So most classes are. The classes with good spammables and other DDs or abilities that give buffs/debuffs will suffer less the changes (Warden, for example). Sorcerers are lacking in that department.

Sustain is a problematic issue. Can´t keep the rotation cost without using HAs. Surely it will be my fault, but... on Live i had not issues. Using one magic regen glyph, pFG set and Witchmother´s Brew so im using lots of sustain resources.

Saying the same i said 2 months ago. We will adapt but it wont be as funny nor as good. For the last patch i stopped subscription. Let´s see how this ends and what decissions i will make.

Bergzorn

Was there a reason given for the Bolt Escape changes, maybe on the stream?

On live, both morphs are really good and balanced against each other. It's up to personal choice what you prefer. I'm using Streak.

With the changes and Streak area as bad as reported from the PTS, you basically chose between

- undodgeable, unblockable stun and some damage, AOE close to your starting position (Streak)
- undodgeable, unblockable stun, AOE on your final position, the projectile absorbing ball, 2s of snare and root immunity (BoL)

That's a nobrainer choice in favour of BoL. It would be so frustrating to miss the target(s) you want to stun, since you can't simply recast for a second try because of the cost increase and possibly positioning.

The changes make the skill stronger as an escape tool (although BoL stunning at the final position is weird), while lowering it's offensive power. If there must be a change at all, IMO it should be the other way around.

rabidmyers

we stamsorcs need an air atronach badly

Aliyavana

rabidrufus64 wrote: »

we stamsorcs need an air atronach badly

An immobile atronach would not go well with our mobile playstyle, unless it follows us

Zalathorm

Sarousse wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I've tested it on the PTS.

The damage is too low.

It's roughly 12k (at its best with 4 daggers critting) damage on guards in Cyrodiil on the PTS, with 4.5k melee power, 30k stamina, and 10k + 20% melee penetration.

That means on players (with all planets aligned, everything procing and everything critting) it will kick in for around 4k damage at its best. The spike needs to be higher, to be on part with other spells like these.

Beside this, it's a very very cool spell, thank for it

You MUST BE JOKING.... It already gives you 5% max stam and 10% light attack damage. You think that ability should have MORE?

Zalathorm

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Unfortunately, Bound Armaments doesn't have quite the same impact as Grim Focus.. It's too weak, and the sound and visual effects are severely lacking.

I also have to agree with the others that say that it would've been better if it functioned like crystal frags- an ability with a 1 second cast time that conjures and fires the daggers w/o a proc and instantly conjures, fires and does increased damage with a proc.
-the light attack mini-game is so tedious. at least this way it'll actually see more use instead of being a passive "while slotted" ability.

Again, are you ignoring how loaded this ability is?

5% max stam, 10% light attack damage, plus the active ability damage? It is MOST DEFINITELY not too weak

Ambrosis_

Aliyavana wrote: »

An immobile atronach would not go well with our mobile playstyle, unless it follows us

Usually when people talk about air atro ult they are talking about mobile air atros like the one in Hel Ra

Zalathorm

Nicalas wrote: »

Bound Armaments does way too little damage. Daggers are hitting for around 800 in duels and do not warrant the consumption of the GCD.

Streak is really bad. I was unable to be stunned even tho the animation clipped me. Ball Lightning seems to be working well.

With the butchering of Dizzy and DOT skills being a complete waste of resources.(450 damage poison injection, 900 damage Rending slashes w/Master's DW) I find myself searching for skills that add something to my build. There is just nothing that fits.

How can you justify more active damage on an ability that already gives you 5% max stam and 10% light attack damage?

Starlock

I play on console and cannot PTS, but to offer some thoughts (because consoles matter dang it!):

• I do not have a character who uses pets so I cannot really comment much on those changes, but I think it is really cool to see a stamina-based pet for this class.
• I'm not sure about these changes to bolt escape as it is hard to know how it will feel without being able to test it. Why were these changes made? What is the design goal behind them? The ability seems fine to me as it is now, so I'm not sure why it is being changed. The targeting sounds like it is going to be really finicky and difficult, especially for console players.
• THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU FOR GIVING MAGICKA SORCERERS MAJOR SORCERY BACK!!!!!!
• Lighting splash changes are in line with the standardization of DoT/AoE abilities as described earlier in the patch notes, but still make me a bit sad.

Alidel

Aliyavana wrote: »

rabidrufus64 wrote: »

we stamsorcs need an air atronach badly

An immobile atronach would not go well with our mobile playstyle, unless it follows us

It can be simply swinging swords/rotating and following enemy, something like air atro in COA2 on titan boss

mikemacon

Absolutely loving the changes so far - especially giving Crit surge major sorcery. 👍👍👍

LiquidPony

Sorcerer feedback:

1. The changes are almost universally awful.
2. Did you really fix Major Berserk on the Storm Atro this time? Like, *really really*? This has got to be about the 11th patch note where I've seen this fix.
3. The Volatile Familiar did not need a damage nerf or a 60% cost increase.
4. Summon Winged Twilight did not need a healing buff.
5. Lightning Splash did not need a cost increase or a damage nerf.
6. Bound Armaments is the most half-assed feature I can possibly imagine. You literally just gave stamsorcs a *** version of the Spectral Bow. And after we've gone through this whole skill audit and had all of these dev notes about "overloading skills" ... now you've got a skill that passively grants +2% weapon damage, +10% LA damage, +5% max stamina, *and* procs additional damage on cast every 4 LAs. Definitely not "over-loaded". The new skill is corny and eats up a GCD and the tradeoff is that you reduced the passive effects it granted before. This isn't "identity". This is off-brand stamblade.

Sovaliah

Hoping to offer a different perspective here since I'm not really a high end raider in ESO pushing min-maxing. The most difficult content I do is Veteran DLC dungeons, but I'd say most of my game time is spent running around overland. My character is a Dunmer MagSorc.

So I haven't had a chance to get a personal feel for the changes by testing on the PTS, but after watching the livestream and reading through the patch notes this is what I'm thinking:

• Getting Major Sorcery back on Surge is a HUGE win. It feels good to be able to trigger a buff ability that has a self heal.
• I understand the logic behind wanting to bring DoTs in line with other abilities so that the player has more choice in customizing a build for themselves. I use a somewhat customized build myself. However, it brings up a tangential concern as it pertains to MagSorc specifically -
• How will these changes affect my AOE damage? I depend on Volatile Familiar, Wall of Elements, and Lightning Flood to deliver a big punch of damage to add packs. Will I be able to put out the same level of destruction as I was before?
• With the increase in resource cost to several abilities that are on my bar, will there be any changes to offer benefits to sustain for magsorcs? Right now I struggle with managing my mana bar, and I'm worried this problem will be exacerbated by the so many abilities having an increased cost.