PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Zippy81

I'd like to touch the identity part of sorcerers. The sorcerer is my main toon. I used it in many different ways: beginner mag sorc, tank sorc, pet sorc, stam sorc, caster/dot mag sorc, sorc healer. The most boring and annoying was the stam sorc dps. For pvp I used ranged mag with vicious ophidian and it was really fun. I'm not experienced enough for pvp though.

A sorcerer in ESO has 3 skill lines:
- Daedric Summoning (dps mostly, with pets)
- Dark Magic (mostly support with crystal shards as cherry on top)
- Storm Calling (dps with lightning)

Passives favour lightning and physical damage.

Which abilities make sorcerers unique?
For pvp it's probably the negate ability. And a nice combo of delayed abilities. And streak.
As a pve damage dealer, it's probably the pets and lightning (with offbalance)
Self healing - surge.
Sustain - dark conversion but does it have to be a channel? It could be an instant cast with delayed results instead.

In my opinion, the identity for mag sorc is there, it's mostly the matter of numbers and pets mechanics. The ability you need to master for dpsing is crystal fragments.

For stam sorc, hurricane is most characteristic. Pets would be nice but aren't there better solutions?
- summon storm atronach could have an air atronach for the aoe morph and deal physical damage,
- daedric prey could scale off max offensive stats and deal lightning damage,
- crystal shard's crystal blast could be a physical version of crystal fragments, that would be the spammable of sorts,
- the blood magic passive could also help with stamina or magicka recovery,
- mage's wrath could be a stamina/physical copy of endless fury to help recover stamina while also scaling off max offensive stats.

Is it really necessary to add new complicated mechanics of bound armaments when a simple solution could solve the issue? I also don't think streak needs to scale off max stats. I always considered streak as the offensive morph (stun) and ball of light as the defensive morph.

All healers need a class ability to help with the healing output -> sorc healers have Power Surge.
Heal on demand -> Matriarch.
The healing ultimate -> absorption field.
An ability that provides an additional synergy -> lightning splash.
Plus passives giving 10% magicka regeneration and lowering the ultimate cost.
In my opinion, it's a great setup as long as power surge is reliable (a high crit build is needed).

Sorc tanks lack abilities helping to survive in most difficult situations that dragonknights and necromancers have (magma shell and bone goliath ultimates). Perhaps an atronach could lower the dmg of enemies in its aoe or could protect the group from projectiles by X %.
The ultimate cost reduction is nice, however, self healing from surge isn't very reliable for tanks due to the crit restrictions for tanks. The identity here are pets but again they are not very useful. Max health when using pets and increased health and stamina recovery are unique passives.

What are the abilities and their morphs that are seldom used?
- summon charged atronach,
- crystal blast,
- maybe shattering prison morph of encase.

To sum it up, I like my sorcerer. However, the changes in patch notes are not appealing to me. Some are unnecessary, other are too complicated. Besides, overloaded abilities are really hard to balance. Grim focus is a fine example. And it will not help the identity of stam sorc.

Cheers,
Zippy

jecks33

Stam pet-sorcs? Please, no!!

Millz

Can we just get a memorial for all stam sorcs in game?

rabidmyers

LiquidPony wrote: »

Sorcerer feedback:

1. The changes are almost universally awful.
2. Did you really fix Major Berserk on the Storm Atro this time? Like, *really really*? This has got to be about the 11th patch note where I've seen this fix.
3. The Volatile Familiar did not need a damage nerf or a 60% cost increase.
4. Summon Winged Twilight did not need a healing buff.
5. Lightning Splash did not need a cost increase or a damage nerf.
6. Bound Armaments is the most half-assed feature I can possibly imagine. You literally just gave stamsorcs a *** version of the Spectral Bow. And after we've gone through this whole skill audit and had all of these dev notes about "overloading skills" ... now you've got a skill that passively grants +2% weapon damage, +10% LA damage, +5% max stamina, *and* procs additional damage on cast every 4 LAs. Definitely not "over-loaded". The new skill is corny and eats up a GCD and the tradeoff is that you reduced the passive effects it granted before. This isn't "identity". This is off-brand stamblade.

hey uh what movie is that gif from do u know?

Major_Lag

Millz wrote: »

Can we just get a memorial for all stam sorcs in game?

Chilly-McFreeze

rabidrufus64 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Sorcerer feedback:

1. The changes are almost universally awful.
2. Did you really fix Major Berserk on the Storm Atro this time? Like, *really really*? This has got to be about the 11th patch note where I've seen this fix.
3. The Volatile Familiar did not need a damage nerf or a 60% cost increase.
4. Summon Winged Twilight did not need a healing buff.
5. Lightning Splash did not need a cost increase or a damage nerf.
6. Bound Armaments is the most half-assed feature I can possibly imagine. You literally just gave stamsorcs a *** version of the Spectral Bow. And after we've gone through this whole skill audit and had all of these dev notes about "overloading skills" ... now you've got a skill that passively grants +2% weapon damage, +10% LA damage, +5% max stamina, *and* procs additional damage on cast every 4 LAs. Definitely not "over-loaded". The new skill is corny and eats up a GCD and the tradeoff is that you reduced the passive effects it granted before. This isn't "identity". This is off-brand stamblade.

hey uh what movie is that gif from do u know?

Should be Game of Thrones.

InvictusApollo

We still need the Hardened Ward to be better. As of this moment the best build for sorc would utilise Ball Lightning for defense. Hardened Ward is a joke. It barely soaks a single LA+spammable.

Celestro

Zippy81 wrote: »

I'd like to touch the identity part of sorcerers. The sorcerer is my main toon. I used it in many different ways: beginner mag sorc, tank sorc, pet sorc, stam sorc, caster/dot mag sorc, sorc healer. The most boring and annoying was the stam sorc dps. For pvp I used ranged mag with vicious ophidian and it was really fun. I'm not experienced enough for pvp though.

A sorcerer in ESO has 3 skill lines:
- Daedric Summoning (dps mostly, with pets)
- Dark Magic (mostly support with crystal shards as cherry on top)
- Storm Calling (dps with lightning)

Passives favour lightning and physical damage.

Which abilities make sorcerers unique?
For pvp it's probably the negate ability. And a nice combo of delayed abilities. And streak.
As a pve damage dealer, it's probably the pets and lightning (with offbalance)
Self healing - surge.
Sustain - dark conversion but does it have to be a channel? It could be an instant cast with delayed results instead.

In my opinion, the identity for mag sorc is there, it's mostly the matter of numbers and pets mechanics. The ability you need to master for dpsing is crystal fragments.

For stam sorc, hurricane is most characteristic. Pets would be nice but aren't there better solutions?
- summon storm atronach could have an air atronach for the aoe morph and deal physical damage,
- daedric prey could scale off max offensive stats and deal lightning damage,
- crystal shard's crystal blast could be a physical version of crystal fragments, that would be the spammable of sorts,
- the blood magic passive could also help with stamina or magicka recovery,
- mage's wrath could be a stamina/physical copy of endless fury to help recover stamina while also scaling off max offensive stats.

Is it really necessary to add new complicated mechanics of bound armaments when a simple solution could solve the issue? I also don't think streak needs to scale off max stats. I always considered streak as the offensive morph (stun) and ball of light as the defensive morph.

All healers need a class ability to help with the healing output -> sorc healers have Power Surge.
Heal on demand -> Matriarch.
The healing ultimate -> absorption field.
An ability that provides an additional synergy -> lightning splash.
Plus passives giving 10% magicka regeneration and lowering the ultimate cost.
In my opinion, it's a great setup as long as power surge is reliable (a high crit build is needed).

Sorc tanks lack abilities helping to survive in most difficult situations that dragonknights and necromancers have (magma shell and bone goliath ultimates). Perhaps an atronach could lower the dmg of enemies in its aoe or could protect the group from projectiles by X %.
The ultimate cost reduction is nice, however, self healing from surge isn't very reliable for tanks due to the crit restrictions for tanks. The identity here are pets but again they are not very useful. Max health when using pets and increased health and stamina recovery are unique passives.

What are the abilities and their morphs that are seldom used?
- summon charged atronach,
- crystal blast,
- maybe shattering prison morph of encase.

To sum it up, I like my sorcerer. However, the changes in patch notes are not appealing to me. Some are unnecessary, other are too complicated. Besides, overloaded abilities are really hard to balance. Grim focus is a fine example. And it will not help the identity of stam sorc.

Cheers,
Zippy

I agree with pretty much all of this save for Daedric Prey dealing lightning damage. The pets do deal Shock Damage except for the Clannfear, but I dunno, does feel like it fits well. On that topic, I always felt like it belonged into the Dark Magic skill line, given the nature as a curse. Would love for one of the Dark Magic abilities to be replaced with it and perhaps implement a replacement for Prey. Like an alternative bound weapon ability instead of what BA has been changed to. Not the worse but as has been mentioned, it is overloaded.

Lord-Otto

rabidrufus64 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Sorcerer feedback:

1. The changes are almost universally awful.
2. Did you really fix Major Berserk on the Storm Atro this time? Like, *really really*? This has got to be about the 11th patch note where I've seen this fix.
3. The Volatile Familiar did not need a damage nerf or a 60% cost increase.
4. Summon Winged Twilight did not need a healing buff.
5. Lightning Splash did not need a cost increase or a damage nerf.
6. Bound Armaments is the most half-assed feature I can possibly imagine. You literally just gave stamsorcs a *** version of the Spectral Bow. And after we've gone through this whole skill audit and had all of these dev notes about "overloading skills" ... now you've got a skill that passively grants +2% weapon damage, +10% LA damage, +5% max stamina, *and* procs additional damage on cast every 4 LAs. Definitely not "over-loaded". The new skill is corny and eats up a GCD and the tradeoff is that you reduced the passive effects it granted before. This isn't "identity". This is off-brand stamblade.

hey uh what movie is that gif from do u know?

It's Game of Throne's season 5, at the end. The famous "Walk of Shame".

chrightt

For those somehow still equating relentless focus to bound armaments without actually trying:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/494016/detailed-analysis-relentless-focus-vs-bound-armaments#latest

As for Sorc feedback, stamsorc skillset looks more varied especially with huge change to dizzy swing. I like the direction this is going but clanfear’s cost is quite high for its heals. I personally think it really isn’t worth using the active ability at all. If possible, would like bound armament’s magicka form to get some treatment as well to make it more usable (even if it is for tanks not DPS). Magsorc doesn’t feel that good to play as a DPS, I think we’re a bit pushed back to a bit more support/utility role. I feel like destruction staff’s pulsar can also be worked as another spammable or an impactful skill to use. It feels quite weak and underutilized at the moment.

LiquidPony

chrightt wrote: »

For those somehow still equating relentless focus to bound armaments without actually trying:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/494016/detailed-analysis-relentless-focus-vs-bound-armaments#latest

As for Sorc feedback, stamsorc skillset looks more varied especially with huge change to dizzy swing. I like the direction this is going but clanfear’s cost is quite high for its heals. I personally think it really isn’t worth using the active ability at all. If possible, would like bound armament’s magicka form to get some treatment as well to make it more usable (even if it is for tanks not DPS). Magsorc doesn’t feel that good to play as a DPS, I think we’re a bit pushed back to a bit more support/utility role. I feel like destruction staff’s pulsar can also be worked as another spammable or an impactful skill to use. It feels quite weak and underutilized at the moment.

LOL!

Yes, they're *very* different because one does disease damage and the other does physical damage, and one does damage instantly and the other spreads it over a whopping 1.2 seconds.

From a PvE perspective, they're basically identical. Defile is irrelevant. The type of damage is irrelevant. Whether it's burst or a pseudo-DoT is irrelevant.

This is not a "good" or "interesting" change. It's just a tiny variation on Grim Focus. Get real.

Moloch1514

Pet Sorc feedback:

In January I posted a 42k solo parse, my best ever. At the time, my ward was strong and the thought of trying Vet trials was exciting. Now my DPS is 30K and sustain is halved due to cost increase of all my moves by ~2x....my shield is half as strong and also costs more........and now I am not excited to get into harder content unfortunately

Shantu

The ST DOT's are now worthless again. The AOE's are so expensive they can't be sustained in a reasonable rotation. Pet damage nerfed again while the cost goes up. I did my normal rotation and I was out of magicka in about 20 seconds. I'm at a loss here. I mean what are we expected to do? Drop an occasional AOE while spamming Force Pulse until we can use our pathetic executable? And I thought U23 was bad.

Seriously though, I would like to know exactly what combat vision this group of devs has for Sorcs. This cycle of over-buff/over-nerf feels like utter chaos. I spent about an hour on the PTS before I'd had enough. If this goes live....

Svidrir

No for a pets stam useless but yes to a stamina curse

We already have the armor bound in bar which is only used for passive only , activation is useless .. how to add a pet on two bars in more ..... seriously .............

chrightt

LiquidPony wrote: »

LOL!

Yes, they're *very* different because one does disease damage and the other does physical damage, and one does damage instantly and the other spreads it over a whopping 1.2 seconds.

From a PvE perspective, they're basically identical. Defile is irrelevant. The type of damage is irrelevant. Whether it's burst or a pseudo-DoT is irrelevant.

This is not a "good" or "interesting" change. It's just a tiny variation on Grim Focus. Get real.

Lmao from a “pve” perspective just slot something else. That is in the pvp section lmao.

Saril_Durzam

Zippy81 wrote: »

Sustain - dark conversion but does it have to be a channel? It could be an instant cast with delayed results instead.

Cheers,
Zippy

Man, i LOVE that idea. ZoS, consider it!!

Lord_Sando

Zalathorm wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I've tested it on the PTS.

The damage is too low.

It's roughly 12k (at its best with 4 daggers critting) damage on guards in Cyrodiil on the PTS, with 4.5k melee power, 30k stamina, and 10k + 20% melee penetration.

That means on players (with all planets aligned, everything procing and everything critting) it will kick in for around 4k damage at its best. The spike needs to be higher, to be on part with other spells like these.

Beside this, it's a very very cool spell, thank for it

You MUST BE JOKING.... It already gives you 5% max stam and 10% light attack damage. You think that ability should have MORE?

WHEN YOU TAKE AWAY ALL SKILLS FORM A CLASS AND WEAPON SKILLS AND GIVE THEM BOUND ARMAMENTS THAT DOES SO LITTLE DAMAGE. ITS TRASH IN PVP, GET ON PTS AND FIGHT ME WITH IT. PROVE ME OTHERWISE.

Ambrosis_

Is that the final animation for Bound Armaments? Doesn't really have that battlemage feeling. Looks like a housewife and her floating kitchen knifes

Saril_Durzam

The idea of Bound Armaments feels very climatic, totally what a stamina sorcerer would use. Not taking about the skill itself but the idea. I must clap ZoS on this one.

Amarthiul

The weapons summoned by Bound Armaments don't seem to know whether they count as pets or not. You get the 8% max health from Expert Summoner, but no Magicka back from Rebate when the weapons are either triggered or expire and disappear. It works with Hunt Leader (you certainly get the Stamina back, didn't check the Health) but not Necropotence.

EDIT: I do like that there's a cooldown on your health dropping off when triggering the weapons though. If you're good enough with weaving you can summon a new weapon before it notices. That's a nice touch.

StopDropAndBear

The Lightning Splash nerf is absolutely baffling, it was already gutted to the point of non-use last patch, why did it need further nerfs?

Canned_Apples

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam

Conjured weapons do feel like a step in the right direction for a stamina sorc, but the damage and ability is underwhelming.
The Clannfear on the other hand.... why would anyone use it when Dark Deal only requires one slot, restores both health+stamina and also costs less magicka!

here's the ability in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09uIENT08RE

Overall, I think they need to decide whether they want to go with daedric pets or bound weapons.
It's a shame Morkuldin exists. That could've been a nice Daedric Curse stamina morph... 3.5 seconds and a bound weapon is summoned to slice the target.

Bound Armaments that functions similar to Crystal Frags, and a Daedric Curse that looks similar Morkuldin. A man can dream....

Only way you're going to get a "battlemage" is if they add magicka melee weapons- stamsorc is something else.

SirLeeMinion

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

... try them out on the PTS before providing feedback in this thread. Thank you!

Haaaaa ha ha ha! Haaa ha ha... ha? Oh... you're serious?! Nah, we did that.; fool me twice shame on me and all that. The ZOS combat team ignores everything we say except for bug reports.

Tannus15

/bug I lost 10k dps somewhere.

victory.immortalb16_ESO

rabidrufus64 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Sorcerer feedback:

1. The changes are almost universally awful.
2. Did you really fix Major Berserk on the Storm Atro this time? Like, *really really*? This has got to be about the 11th patch note where I've seen this fix.
3. The Volatile Familiar did not need a damage nerf or a 60% cost increase.
4. Summon Winged Twilight did not need a healing buff.
5. Lightning Splash did not need a cost increase or a damage nerf.
6. Bound Armaments is the most half-assed feature I can possibly imagine. You literally just gave stamsorcs a *** version of the Spectral Bow. And after we've gone through this whole skill audit and had all of these dev notes about "overloading skills" ... now you've got a skill that passively grants +2% weapon damage, +10% LA damage, +5% max stamina, *and* procs additional damage on cast every 4 LAs. Definitely not "over-loaded". The new skill is corny and eats up a GCD and the tradeoff is that you reduced the passive effects it granted before. This isn't "identity". This is off-brand stamblade.

hey uh what movie is that gif from do u know?

Game of Thrones. When Cersei has to walk back to the red keep naked. (I watched that episode last week).

Nyqwont

Instead of looking for the perfect balance, be happy with "pretty close". You're killing class identity across the board. WOW did this, removing skills and choices and it's a shell of what it was. You're headed down the same path with changes like this.

Lord_Sando

Canned_Apples wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam

Conjured weapons do feel like a step in the right direction for a stamina sorc, but the damage and ability is underwhelming.
The Clannfear on the other hand.... why would anyone use it when Dark Deal only requires one slot, restores both health+stamina and also costs less magicka!
.

I tried it on PTS bound armor is tickling my target in pvp less damage than hurricane. please stop focusing on streak and give us stam frag or stam curse. also the bound armor daggers don't count as a pet so no increased hp. stam sorc gets a huge nerf to the class every patch it never fails. nerfing the class in ways I couldn't even dream of. GG ZOS

MincVinyl

From someone who has played stamsorc for just about 5 years now, TLDR AT BOTTOM

---

What is stamsorc's identity?
Stamsorc to me would be defined as the class that moves fast and hits hard.

---

Inclass sustain allows for more damage to be built through gear sets......(somewhat reduced since DDeal was made inefficient by design)

Inclass damage has always been by design to be constant(passives)....(this is what allows for movement to be utilized fully since you enter and exit fights so quickly...NOTE procs won't pair well, they would just add more time engaging and disengaging)

---

-new bound armaments breaks this identity, now instead of building up damage then hitting a target quickly, you have to spend time engaging a target for a low damage proc that takes up almost 2 gcds(try the ability on pts and notice how long it takes to do a light attack after bash canceling the proc)

- bound armarments could have been made into something that follows the mobility identity like "builds up charges 1 per X distance(or second sprinting) Max ~10, when activated your next light attack releases the charges(pairs with 10% light attack damage aspect, also avoids the terrible clunky feeling with current pts bound armaments)

---

Streak - I feel indifferent about the cone changes
Ball of lightning- Great idea to add snare immune to this for the defensive choice, but should stun at original location for escaping

---

in general passives are all for some reason heavily favored for magsorcs to easily gain access to them,

-Daedric protection to gain our stam recov we must slot bound armaments on one bar and a useless stationary atro that provides no use to stamsorc on the backbar
-Expert Summoner (yes i highly doubt anyone will use the clanfear, this passive could be changed to a buff for ~10s after using an active ability in the pet treeline>rewarding gameplay mechanics that can build off of the class identity based bound armaments)

-Blood magic has no use for us (DD is the only ability used by most stamsorcs, and negate only procs once)
-Exploitation has no more use for us with recent changes to Nonhomogenous heals (this should give savagery too since our inclass heals require crit)

---

TLDR

---

-Stamsorc identity shouldn't be about a stack based clunky proc that isn't unique in any way.
-Stamsorc should gain abilities/passives to embrace and reward moving fast and hitting hard.
-alot of passives are designed silly
-new bound armaments is clunky/pairs poorly with stamsorc
-ball of lightning should stun at origin

Derra

Ball of Lightning is way overbuffed on PTS.

The skill is no longer a defensive morph choice. It offers the superior offensive stun aswell (it allows you to land an ability after while streak does not). While also absorbing magica projectiles for 3 seconds. While also making you immune to roots and snares for 2 seconds.

I like the new stun concept - it´s fun to utilize.

There was literally no reason to increase the absorb duration - it´s fine on live (remember how wings with 4 reflects was supposedly op? - this absorbs ALL magica projectiles for 3s now - it´s nuts).

The snare/root immunity then absolutely overloads the skill. If you want to make that available in the sorc toolkit do it on any other skill but the one that already gives you superior mobility to almost anything else.

Ball of lightning as is on pts is a variant of an I-Win button. It´s an: I can not lose ever button. With offensive capability attached.

If this makes it live unchanged it will lead to the same level of complaints as eclipse+morphs and the summerset version of rune cage did. Do not let this happen.

Chilly-McFreeze

Amarthiul wrote: »

The weapons summoned by Bound Armaments don't seem to know whether they count as pets or not. You get the 8% max health from Expert Summoner, but no Magicka back from Rebate when the weapons are either triggered or expire and disappear. It works with Hunt Leader (you certainly get the Stamina back, didn't check the Health) but not Necropotence.

Are you sure about that? I Tester it too and HL doesnt work with the armaments proc. Even combat metrics doesnt show a hl proc. Tested hl with clannfear and the proc shows in metrics.