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Additional Context on U23 Combat Changes

  • IonicKai
    IonicKai
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    hello
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    my22y6oa8oh8.png

    Searing heat changes feel nice

    Have you tried using Soul Trap on top of all the other DoTs?

    It’s a nice parse and I like how distributed the damage is overall, yet the 20% DPS just by light attacking makes me sad.

    Are you not good at light attack weaving?

    It has nothing to do with being good or bad at it.

    On console light attack weaving (or should we call it animation canceling because that’s what it boils down to) is anything but reliable and you often cannot light attack weave in between skills.

    It’s a major design flaw that light attacks (!) make such a big part of your DPS Repertoire whereas other skills barely touch 10% or more than that.

    Well and then there’s still the thing that it’s a combat flaw ZOS couldn’t get rid of and then has been turned into a “feature“ because they had no idea of how to get rid of it (they try in U23 with adding cast times to Ultimates though so it’s still not working as intended and I’m sure ZOS would remove it if they’d knew how). But this thread isn’t about animation canceling so no need to further discuss this topic here.

    let's break it down, shall we?

    Light attacking is there for a reason. It is one of the two attacks that do NOT cost magicka/stamina. Weaving is important so you do not run out of resources.

    100% dps:

    5 skills on each bar, let's say 4 skills total out of 10 don't actually provide damage, but are for you to survive and increase dps output (shield, channelled acceleration/trap, sustain tool such as rune, netch, dark deal etc, and a self heal). That leaves 6 skills that do damage (not considering ults). do you really thing 6 skills should add up to 100% dps??

    insane.

    I think the issue is less that it is a factor and more that it is too mandatory given how poorly it performs particularly on console. I think being able to weave should reward the skilled player but 20% of the damage means it's is 1/5 of your total damage not including the other benefits. That means that those 6 skills are only 80% when they should be 90% comfortably. Remember that in a lot of cases light attacks actually improve sustain (leeching strikes on a nb for example) so it's a compounded benefit on something that isn't equally reliable. The strength and overall effect LAs is driving the canyon sized gap between the floor and the ceiling.
  • BennyButton
    BennyButton
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    karekiz wrote: »
    Light attacking is there for a reason. It is one of the two attacks that do NOT cost magicka/stamina. Weaving is important so you do not run out of resources.

    I would rather take 80% of Light attack damage and place them back into core class/weapon abilities. I want to play a unique class and have it feel impactful, not left click a generic boring attack over and over.

    I guess you misunderstand what light weaving is.
    CP810

    Templar healer - Cringe D'addy Extinguisher of Flames, Bringer of Light, Voice of Reason, Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
    Warden healer .- Mushroom Mommy Shadow Breaker, Bringer of Light
    Magden dps - Ørca Volunteer
    Magsorc something - Øtter (Crafter) Flawless Conqueror, Shadow Breaker
    DK Healer - Euthanasia Enthusiast (meme) Shadow Breaker
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    my22y6oa8oh8.png

    Searing heat changes feel nice

    Have you tried using Soul Trap on top of all the other DoTs?

    It’s a nice parse and I like how distributed the damage is overall, yet the 20% DPS just by light attacking makes me sad.

    My class is magDK and even if soul trap hits more than eruption I still use it regardless because I love this class, and am disappointed entirely with the nerf to it and have a few suggestions how you can keep it in their standards but also give magDK something special.
    Raise your arguments, not your insults.

    Jodynn/Jo_oJ PC NA

    PvE and PvP

    MagDK
    StamDK
  • CambionDaemon
    CambionDaemon
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    Just put soft caps on attributes and make us hybrids.

    how about no.

    How about yes, seeing the game was designed that way to begin with and if I remember correctly had soft caps when it launched.

    The only way that you will get balance in classes is make it so you cannot stack in to a primary source with no drawbacks.
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    karekiz wrote: »
    Light attacking is there for a reason. It is one of the two attacks that do NOT cost magicka/stamina. Weaving is important so you do not run out of resources.

    I would rather take 80% of Light attack damage and place them back into core class/weapon abilities. I want to play a unique class and have it feel impactful, not left click a generic boring attack over and over.

    This also effectively raises the floor and keeps the top at a stand still. Players that LA weave dead on would see no difference. Players that struggle a bit would see improvement. Closing the DPS gap, which was something they wanted to do <Which I have no idea if they remember that>.

    This. Give class skills the power back that was added to LA and remove this awful LA/animation canceling weaving style of gameplay that might work on PC yet is a crutch on console.

    I weave with a controller
    Raise your arguments, not your insults.

    Jodynn/Jo_oJ PC NA

    PvE and PvP

    MagDK
    StamDK
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    karekiz wrote: »
    Light attacking is there for a reason. It is one of the two attacks that do NOT cost magicka/stamina. Weaving is important so you do not run out of resources.

    I would rather take 80% of Light attack damage and place them back into core class/weapon abilities. I want to play a unique class and have it feel impactful, not left click a generic boring attack over and over.

    This also effectively raises the floor and keeps the top at a stand still. Players that LA weave dead on would see no difference. Players that struggle a bit would see improvement. Closing the DPS gap, which was something they wanted to do <Which I have no idea if they remember that>.

    This. Give class skills the power back that was added to LA and remove this awful LA/animation canceling weaving style of gameplay that might work on PC yet is a crutch on console.

    I weave with a controller

    Yeah with a fraction of the effectiveness you can achieve by weaving with a mouse.
    Edited by Seraphayel on July 23, 2019 10:39PM
    Za'Kharj - Khajiit Necromancer (Aldmeri Dominion)
    Xbox One X (EU)
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    8snjni60a2nc.png

    Is that so?

    I don’t know on which platform or server you play, I know enough people with excellent connections that cannot weave properly due to input lag / usual ESO lags.
    Za'Kharj - Khajiit Necromancer (Aldmeri Dominion)
    Xbox One X (EU)
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    8snjni60a2nc.png

    Is that so?

    I don’t know on which platform or server you play, I know enough people with excellent connections that cannot weave properly due to input lag / usual ESO lags.

    NA PC Server using Xbox One controller wireless with 170-300 ping on that parse.
    Raise your arguments, not your insults.

    Jodynn/Jo_oJ PC NA

    PvE and PvP

    MagDK
    StamDK
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    8snjni60a2nc.png

    Is that so?

    I don’t know on which platform or server you play, I know enough people with excellent connections that cannot weave properly due to input lag / usual ESO lags.

    NA PC Server using Xbox One controller wireless with 170-300 ping on that parse.

    Ah, you’re using a controller on PC. Don’t know if it’s a console thing then.

    Still impressed with that parse though.
    Za'Kharj - Khajiit Necromancer (Aldmeri Dominion)
    Xbox One X (EU)
  • MehrunesFlagon
    MehrunesFlagon
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    Just put soft caps on attributes and make us hybrids.

    how about no.

    How about yes, seeing the game was designed that way to begin with and if I remember correctly had soft caps when it launched.

    The only way that you will get balance in classes is make it so you cannot stack in to a primary source with no drawbacks.

    There is already a drawback.Less health.absurd getting punished for putting all in one,when I would not need extra in them anyway.
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    lol stamina/magicka sickness, that was terrible, do not bring that back
    Raise your arguments, not your insults.

    Jodynn/Jo_oJ PC NA

    PvE and PvP

    MagDK
    StamDK
  • Banana
    Banana
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    Bring back the Konkle
  • PoseidonEvil
    PoseidonEvil
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    [Quoted post has been removed.]

    Why is that dumb lmao.

    Is doing anything other than going 100% pure dmg really so stupid to you? Have some dd's slot a aoe heal?, have some slot some type of defensive ult for heal checks? A permafrost would be very useful with its aoe protection.

    Anti-fun = not hitting 100k dps anymore?

    Because now clears wont as easy as it was before duh! lol.

    that's the problem with letting players play for years with a broken game or broken skills. you get used to it, and then when its fixed everyone is upset because they don't want to re learn how to play after so many years have gone by lol
    XB1 NA *GT: A L C H E lVl Y *
    No Saints Just Sinners Member * Lotus Guild Member
    Kermak dro-Smoketh -- Orc Stamplar
    Counts-the-Clouds -- Argonian Healer
    Ma'zharim The Wanderer -- Khajiit Stamsorc
  • Lucky28
    Lucky28
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    qzqra48sdkot.png
    People laughed when I made this meme. They called me insane.

    WELL WHO IS LAUGHING NOW?! >:'(

    lol. i mean pretty much all the changes i didn't like and the direction that was bumming me out when Wrobel was around has now been amplified since his departure...So, i'll admit i was wrong, i don't think he was the one doing it XD
    Edited by Lucky28 on July 25, 2019 3:59AM
    Invictus
  • Durham
    Durham
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    Healing springs has always worked, healers are used to it, healers like it, why change it, it feels good.

    Orbs, if you are going to just have one orb; stop this slowly moving crap and just make it a true ground HoT/DoT so it's consistent and reliable rather than "Oh you'll get my heals sometime, maybe, but don't move, until now, mk?"

    Vigor is overpowered and compromises the role of healer, sure they do more than just heal and also buff, but if you can replace with a DD you can do more damage than 2 buffers just have one, or just make a DD where a buff set and keep going.

    I can't speak much for other classes, I main and only play magDK really, I've tried all the other classes in end game and I just don't like it and would rather just not play the game; that being said, I'm feeling really lacking in competitive power here, I still do substantial DPS but my skill is outweighed by the fact people have executes and diminish my role and stam do more damage although I'm also a melee.

    This patch makes me question if eruption is even worth the 5.5k mag, is a shame to not have any earth heart skills other than Battle Roar passive, people are concerned with identity, well, this is a good way to lose it.

    "Healing springs has always worked, healers are used to it, healers like it, why change it, it feels good" Healing Springs are resource hogs in the game. Thats a big reason they are changing it. They stated in their stream they are looking at abilites and how it affects server performance. Watch for more AOE type abilites to get changed in future patches.
    Edited by Durham on July 29, 2019 3:17PM
    PVP DEADWAIT
    PVE Eternal Destiny
  • Varana
    Varana
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    They also said at that point in the stream that these items on the list of performance improvements are something different than the balance changes.
    What they are looking at is how those skills work internally, in terms of computing efficiency.
    Whether the Healing Springs change is connected to that, is pure speculation. (And unless there's a clear developer statement, I'd count "Springs is a resource hog" as speculation, as well.)
    Edited by Varana on July 29, 2019 9:51PM
  • KILMAIM
    KILMAIM
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    I spend so little time on this game, it's pathetic. How many years until these new "standards" yield something fruitful? Seriously, what's the timeline? Give the community a realistic outlook. Taking the time to formulate a rationale response to this crock of horse**** is a waste of time. I simply don't care anymore. Congrats!
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