The "Balance" of Mag Sorcs

Mitaka211

To be honest it's not even about the under performing of some classes. Mag sorcs are by far the safest pick for pvp for a new player. They outperform any other class (some by a stupid amount) and for a class that can delete people from a mile away it is really mobile and tanky. Like i don't know how people are still in denial about it.

The devs are clearly in denial about it as well. Like magsorcs are really out of control in this expansion.

Urvoth

Mitaka211 wrote: »

To be honest it's not even about the under performing of some classes. Mag sorcs are by far the safest pick for pvp for a new player. They outperform any other class (some by a stupid amount) and for a class that can delete people from a mile away it is really mobile and tanky. Like i don't know how people are still in denial about it.

The devs are clearly in denial about it as well. Like magsorcs are really out of control in this expansion.

It’s people like you I have to thank for having my games filled with bot sorcs. Yeah, magsorc is def strong but idk I why it would be a good choice for a noob player. Bad sorcs and nbs are pretty much the easiest kills possible.

Emma_Overload

Mitaka211 wrote: »

To be honest it's not even about the under performing of some classes. Mag sorcs are by far the safest pick for pvp for a new player. They outperform any other class (some by a stupid amount) and for a class that can delete people from a mile away it is really mobile and tanky. Like i don't know how people are still in denial about it.

The devs are clearly in denial about it as well. Like magsorcs are really out of control in this expansion.

Good players don't let you delete them from a mile away. There is no such thing as ranged combat in ESO unless you are hiding in the middle of a Zerg or you are a cowardly stealthed ganker with a bow.

Derra

ecru wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Magicka Sorcerer has the strongest attack, the strongest defense, the strongest speed, the strongest pets.
Stupid ZOS is crazy about tasting Sorcerer's ass.

Sorcerers are not even close to having the strongest attack. DK leap, NB Incap, NB spectral bow, Stamden Sub-Dawnbreaker combo, Stamina Onslaught ganker, Necro Bash build.... All these are stronger attacks than anything Sorcs can do.

magsorc curse + fury + frag is stronger 1GCD burst compared to anything you listed, change my mind

Just that it´s 3 gcds + traveltime of which 2 are also dodgeable and blockable?
Also who gets taken into execute range by frag + curse dmg?

and who gets taken into execute range by dawnbreaker + sub?

Considering Execute dmg for 2h starts at 50% hp instead of 20% that´s far more likely to happen (though it´s probably only worth it at around 35%?).
This is reinforced by sub + dawnbreaker not being telegraphed on the target.
This is further excerbated by one of these non target telegraphed abilities being a stun.
Last but not least the only possible defense against those two would be block as both hits are undodgeable.

So while i agree with your sentiment that you should in general not be taken into execute range (and die) by dawnbreaker + sub assault - it is my opinion that this scenario is a lot more likely to happen (and in my book that´s fine - we´re talking about an ultimate combo).

If someone would be serious in comparing these two scenarios my advice to them would be to maybe switch from playing with a steering wheel and pedals to something more suited.

You're severely overestimating the "execute" damage that 2h gets sub 50%. It doesn't start to do as much damage as something like wrecking blow until your target is under about 20% HP. Before that it isn't any stronger than any other spammable.

Streak isn't in any way comparable to a gap closer. A gap closer needs a target and doesn't have a stun attached to it that can CC multiple people, it can only do one thing--close the gap on a target. Streak can be used to catch kiting players, to kite players who are chasing you, to cc those players in either of those situations, or to gain a better position in general. Do you really think any sorcs would trade streak for the equivalent of crit charge? Streak is the mobility I wish my DK had.

Considering the first paragraph:
This is a bit of a faulty argument you´re making here - wrecking blow is not an instant spammable and does not have the tooltip of an instant cast spammable ability.
Even this patch dizzing swing still has a 25% higher tooltip than suprise attack (the highest scaling instant cast spammable).
So my estimate of when executing becomes worth it should be roughly correct if you look at anything BUT wrecking blow which simply deals atleast 25% more damage than any other spammable.

I don´t get your second paragrath - i didn´t adress streak in my post at all. I guess it´s unrelated to the quote?

Iskiab

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

To be honest it's not even about the under performing of some classes. Mag sorcs are by far the safest pick for pvp for a new player. They outperform any other class (some by a stupid amount) and for a class that can delete people from a mile away it is really mobile and tanky. Like i don't know how people are still in denial about it.

The devs are clearly in denial about it as well. Like magsorcs are really out of control in this expansion.

Good players don't let you delete them from a mile away. There is no such thing as ranged combat in ESO unless you are hiding in the middle of a Zerg or you are a cowardly stealthed ganker with a bow.

Do you actually believe this? I’m trying to figure out if you always play solo, getting heated so it’s hyperbole, or just extremely biased.

Lord-Otto

darkblue5 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Bottom line: don't ask for sorc nerfs, you will still be disappointed afterwards.
What happened to that mentality that we should refrain from nerfs and rather buff underperforming classes? Are we skipping this for sorcs?

I, for example, have literally never held that view. It is true that on the forum a lot of people seem to hold that view. There is certainly a die hard group that opposes nerfs on principle but no nerfs means an even quicker power creep. Lots of people hate power creep and hate nerfs. Some people just love power creep. I know that a couple of those people genuinely and personally hold me in contempt for being so pro nerf .

I hate power creep much more than I love nerfs. I love nerfs because they solve the thing that needs to be solved. "Buffs to other" often have unintended bad consequences and contribute to power creep.

For example I was and am happy with the changes that have made magblade be less trash tier and more just ok. I also am low key concerned that in the long term the magblade buffs will cause problems. The fact that the buffs were also effectively nerfs to snares and paired with a nerf to damage help IMO... but probably the Grim Focus mitigation will need to be nerfed. At least for Relentless Focus morph.

I see your point about power creep. But I think that's more of a PvE problem.
Class balancing is fluid and evolves. AI enemies don't. If all PvP classes become god tier, then all PvP players are facing enemies of the same strength - god tier. Thus, it would be balanced perfectly. If all classes in PvE became god tier with 70k dps selfbuffed, that would be a different story, as enemies don't evolve there. Unless you throw mechanics in there, and we see the difference with DLC dungeons.

Joy_Division

Urvoth wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

To be honest it's not even about the under performing of some classes. Mag sorcs are by far the safest pick for pvp for a new player. They outperform any other class (some by a stupid amount) and for a class that can delete people from a mile away it is really mobile and tanky. Like i don't know how people are still in denial about it.

The devs are clearly in denial about it as well. Like magsorcs are really out of control in this expansion.

It’s people like you I have to thank for having my games filled with bot sorcs. Yeah, magsorc is def strong but idk I why it would be a good choice for a noob player. Bad sorcs and nbs are pretty much the easiest kills possible.

It's a good choice for a noob player because it has easy to play mechanics that have a much shorter learning curve than the other classes

• I don;t want to be here: *streak* gone. Every other class has to either build or at least think how to leave a situation they don;t want to be in (although NBs come close, without detect pots they be on an even higher level)
• I want to kill that guy: preloaded executed, undodgable/unblockable burst in 3.5 seconds, RNG max range (another) burst. At least a NB has to weave light attacks and time their execute.
• I need healing: Do I press my burst heal that hits two targets for max value or do I press my shield button that gives me virtual health equivalent to a burst heal?

That's all easy peasy comparatively speaking. What is questionable is that these same easy peasy mechanics also happen to be at least as strong - if not stronger - than other classes' mechanics that are are more complex and restrictive.

Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.

Insco851

Joy_Division wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

To be honest it's not even about the under performing of some classes. Mag sorcs are by far the safest pick for pvp for a new player. They outperform any other class (some by a stupid amount) and for a class that can delete people from a mile away it is really mobile and tanky. Like i don't know how people are still in denial about it.

The devs are clearly in denial about it as well. Like magsorcs are really out of control in this expansion.

It’s people like you I have to thank for having my games filled with bot sorcs. Yeah, magsorc is def strong but idk I why it would be a good choice for a noob player. Bad sorcs and nbs are pretty much the easiest kills possible.

It's a good choice for a noob player because it has easy to play mechanics that have a much shorter learning curve than the other classes

• I don;t want to be here: *streak* gone. Every other class has to either build or at least think how to leave a situation they don;t want to be in (although NBs come close, without detect pots they be on an even higher level)
• I want to kill that guy: preloaded executed, undodgable/unblockable burst in 3.5 seconds, RNG max range (another) burst. At least a NB has to weave light attacks and time their execute.
• I need healing: Do I press my burst heal that hits two targets for max value or do I press my shield button that gives me virtual health equivalent to a burst heal?

That's all easy peasy comparatively speaking. What is questionable is that these same easy peasy mechanics also happen to be at least as strong - if not stronger - than other classes' mechanics that are are more complex and restrictive.

Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.

Nah man very average class. Crazy average. You people that just have a magsorc alt that you get on to cheese just don’t understand how hard the kit is. Streaking 74 times is hard on my fingers mate. /s

pieratsos

Joy_Division wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

To be honest it's not even about the under performing of some classes. Mag sorcs are by far the safest pick for pvp for a new player. They outperform any other class (some by a stupid amount) and for a class that can delete people from a mile away it is really mobile and tanky. Like i don't know how people are still in denial about it.

The devs are clearly in denial about it as well. Like magsorcs are really out of control in this expansion.

It’s people like you I have to thank for having my games filled with bot sorcs. Yeah, magsorc is def strong but idk I why it would be a good choice for a noob player. Bad sorcs and nbs are pretty much the easiest kills possible.

It's a good choice for a noob player because it has easy to play mechanics that have a much shorter learning curve than the other classes

• I don;t want to be here: *streak* gone. Every other class has to either build or at least think how to leave a situation they don;t want to be in (although NBs come close, without detect pots they be on an even higher level)
• I want to kill that guy: preloaded executed, undodgable/unblockable burst in 3.5 seconds, RNG max range (another) burst. At least a NB has to weave light attacks and time their execute.
• I need healing: Do I press my burst heal that hits two targets for max value or do I press my shield button that gives me virtual health equivalent to a burst heal?

That's all easy peasy comparatively speaking. What is questionable is that these same easy peasy mechanics also happen to be at least as strong - if not stronger - than other classes' mechanics that are are more complex and restrictive.

Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.

Well technically if the sorc knows when to streak away and can sustain its ridiculous cost, knows how to land a burst of 4-5 different abilities and knows how to sustain shields when under pressure while also doing everything else you said, then maybe just maybe he is not so bad after all.

I mean i can literally make the exact same argument about templar. A bad templar just puts on heavy armor, starts blocking spamming breath of life on everyone and casting a preloaded burst ability that doesnt even require him to do dmg to the target for it to explode since other players can store dmg as well. Doesnt really sound more complex to me. If anything it sounds easier. Same for DKs same for NBs same for any other class tbh. So yeah, there is that.

Sure a bad sorc is probably more dangerous. But thats the nature of a more offensive class. Its obviously going to be more dangerous just as a tanky class like termplar or DK is probably going to be way more frustrating to fight against.

Waffennacht

Any class with strong mobility is going to be a strong PvP class; you can't kill what you can't hit.

Anything else is just icing

ccmedaddy

Bruh did you just really compare heavy armor magplar to magsorc Is that really the hill you want to die on

Derra

Joy_Division wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

To be honest it's not even about the under performing of some classes. Mag sorcs are by far the safest pick for pvp for a new player. They outperform any other class (some by a stupid amount) and for a class that can delete people from a mile away it is really mobile and tanky. Like i don't know how people are still in denial about it.

The devs are clearly in denial about it as well. Like magsorcs are really out of control in this expansion.

It’s people like you I have to thank for having my games filled with bot sorcs. Yeah, magsorc is def strong but idk I why it would be a good choice for a noob player. Bad sorcs and nbs are pretty much the easiest kills possible.

It's a good choice for a noob player because it has easy to play mechanics that have a much shorter learning curve than the other classes

• I don;t want to be here: *streak* gone. Every other class has to either build or at least think how to leave a situation they don;t want to be in (although NBs come close, without detect pots they be on an even higher level)
• I want to kill that guy: preloaded executed, undodgable/unblockable burst in 3.5 seconds, RNG max range (another) burst. At least a NB has to weave light attacks and time their execute.
• I need healing: Do I press my burst heal that hits two targets for max value or do I press my shield button that gives me virtual health equivalent to a burst heal?

That's all easy peasy comparatively speaking. What is questionable is that these same easy peasy mechanics also happen to be at least as strong - if not stronger - than other classes' mechanics that are are more complex and restrictive.

Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.

This is pretty spot on.

Sorc offense is pretty straight forward.
Sorc defense is the easiest in the game.

What is hard about playing sorc is combining and balancing offense and defense against either an equally good opponent (on a good class/build) or against multiple targets.

I would however not say that a heavyarmor meta stamina build is much more difficult to play than a sorc - generally speaking.

pieratsos

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Bruh did you just really compare heavy armor magplar to magsorc Is that really the hill you want to die on

No I did not compare them in terms of effectiveness and performance. That wasn't even the point so dunno how u made that conclusion. Probably to complex for you to understand.

grannas211

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Bruh did you just really compare heavy armor magplar to magsorc Is that really the hill you want to die on

The Point is here




Your head is here

ccmedaddy

pieratsos wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Bruh did you just really compare heavy armor magplar to magsorc Is that really the hill you want to die on

No I did not compare them in terms of effectiveness and performance. That wasn't even the point so dunno how u made that conclusion. Probably to complex for you to understand.

I mean, your point was that a bad player would have just as an easy time surviving and doing dmg on a heavy armor magplar as they would on a magsorc and that is clearly false. Magsorc can easily have everything that a HA magplar has minus cleanse--high resistances, SnB backbar, a burst heal that rivals BoL. And that's on top of class-specifc defenses like strong shields and superior mobility.

And then there's the fact that you did in fact compare magsorc offense to a HA magplar casting backlash on an enemy and waiting for teammates to deal dmg... I don't think I need to explain why this was a bad comparison.

Ragnaroek93

Magsorc is for sure better balanced than our beloved sword and board stamina builds who are basically unkillable while still being able to reach ridiculous dps. I can't even blame sorc players anymore for playing with the pet, it's literally the only sorc spec which can compete with cauterize stamina Dk and co.

Urvoth

Joy_Division wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

To be honest it's not even about the under performing of some classes. Mag sorcs are by far the safest pick for pvp for a new player. They outperform any other class (some by a stupid amount) and for a class that can delete people from a mile away it is really mobile and tanky. Like i don't know how people are still in denial about it.

The devs are clearly in denial about it as well. Like magsorcs are really out of control in this expansion.

It’s people like you I have to thank for having my games filled with bot sorcs. Yeah, magsorc is def strong but idk I why it would be a good choice for a noob player. Bad sorcs and nbs are pretty much the easiest kills possible.

It's a good choice for a noob player because it has easy to play mechanics that have a much shorter learning curve than the other classes

• I don;t want to be here: *streak* gone. Every other class has to either build or at least think how to leave a situation they don;t want to be in (although NBs come close, without detect pots they be on an even higher level)
• I want to kill that guy: preloaded executed, undodgable/unblockable burst in 3.5 seconds, RNG max range (another) burst. At least a NB has to weave light attacks and time their execute.
• I need healing: Do I press my burst heal that hits two targets for max value or do I press my shield button that gives me virtual health equivalent to a burst heal?

That's all easy peasy comparatively speaking. What is questionable is that these same easy peasy mechanics also happen to be at least as strong - if not stronger - than other classes' mechanics that are are more complex and restrictive.

Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.

Yeah, you have good skills but that doesn't make bad sorcs dangerous. You don't have any continual pressure through hard hitting dots/bleeds, virtually no aoe, and most of your damage mitigation comes from avoiding damage rather than taking it. All of that makes it harder for new players to actually be good on the class. It actually takes preplanning to setup combos well and to keep up your defense. Sure, botsorcs can sit in the back of a zerg and spam fury, but that doesn't kill anyone unless you either hit your combo or other people are loading on the damage. I think out of any class, botsorcs are the easiest ones to kill and farm, and their actual pressure is very minimal outside of pets if they can't time a burst.

Good sorcs are a completely different argument, but overall most sorcs you find are pretty much free kills unless they're in the top 5-10% of sorc players. Compare that to other classes where you can wear heavy armor and spam reactionary heals while your dots do damage.

PhoenixGrey

Joy_Division wrote: »

Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.

Its also the other way around. I feel the ceiling that a sorc can reach in top tier gameplay is limited due to class limitations

In the highest MMR bg's on our server, I would rather fight a team of pet sorcs rather than well top tier stam players

The mag sorc is bound to get shredded with a well timed burst combos as they need to face tank all the damage and dont synergize well with their team mates.

There is no shimerring shield, wings or cloak to avoid certain death and no cp has limited dodge roll capabilities for mag classes. The only thing which would have saved you was the 30k non crittable shield stack which no longer exist after shield nerfs

Minno

ccmedaddy wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Bruh did you just really compare heavy armor magplar to magsorc Is that really the hill you want to die on

No I did not compare them in terms of effectiveness and performance. That wasn't even the point so dunno how u made that conclusion. Probably to complex for you to understand.

I mean, your point was that a bad player would have just as an easy time surviving and doing dmg on a heavy armor magplar as they would on a magsorc and that is clearly false. Magsorc can easily have everything that a HA magplar has minus cleanse--high resistances, SnB backbar, a burst heal that rivals BoL. And that's on top of class-specifc defenses like strong shields and superior mobility.

And then there's the fact that you did in fact compare magsorc offense to a HA magplar casting backlash on an enemy and waiting for teammates to deal dmg... I don't think I need to explain why this was a bad comparison.

I read that as two sides of annoying builds.

But then again sorc has access to 90% block mitigation, so its kinda funny there isnt any mention that a sorc can actually do the "heavy armor blockplar" build and have disgusting dmg with a pet dealing dmg/taking hits for it whereas the templar is just holding block like a turd bucket.

edit:
more like this. What other class can have 78% total mitigation for slotting 1 skill and pressing right mouse button while also having high mobility + high burst with a strong LOS burst heal? lol
15k = (1-50/100)*((1-(56)/100) = 3300

Edit #2:
and it gets worse!! that 78% total mitigation happens on the dmg AFTER a shield. Guess who else has a 2300 cost 10k value class shield that also applies to their pets

Strider__Roshin

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

To be honest it's not even about the under performing of some classes. Mag sorcs are by far the safest pick for pvp for a new player. They outperform any other class (some by a stupid amount) and for a class that can delete people from a mile away it is really mobile and tanky. Like i don't know how people are still in denial about it.

The devs are clearly in denial about it as well. Like magsorcs are really out of control in this expansion.

It’s people like you I have to thank for having my games filled with bot sorcs. Yeah, magsorc is def strong but idk I why it would be a good choice for a noob player. Bad sorcs and nbs are pretty much the easiest kills possible.

It's a good choice for a noob player because it has easy to play mechanics that have a much shorter learning curve than the other classes

• I don;t want to be here: *streak* gone. Every other class has to either build or at least think how to leave a situation they don;t want to be in (although NBs come close, without detect pots they be on an even higher level)
• I want to kill that guy: preloaded executed, undodgable/unblockable burst in 3.5 seconds, RNG max range (another) burst. At least a NB has to weave light attacks and time their execute.
• I need healing: Do I press my burst heal that hits two targets for max value or do I press my shield button that gives me virtual health equivalent to a burst heal?

That's all easy peasy comparatively speaking. What is questionable is that these same easy peasy mechanics also happen to be at least as strong - if not stronger - than other classes' mechanics that are are more complex and restrictive.

Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.

I would however not say that a heavyarmor meta stamina build is much more difficult to play than a sorc - generally speaking.

Both need adjustment in my opinion, but there's a lot more than needs adjustment than just that.

Minno

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.

Its also the other way around. I feel the ceiling that a sorc can reach in top tier gameplay is limited due to class limitations

In the highest MMR bg's on our server, I would rather fight a team of pet sorcs rather than well top tier stam players

The mag sorc is bound to get shredded with a well timed burst combos as they need to face tank all the damage and dont synergize well with their team mates.

There is no shimerring shield, wings or cloak to avoid certain death and no cp has limited dodge roll capabilities for mag classes. The only thing which would have saved you was the 30k non crittable shield stack which no longer exist after shield nerfs

shields became stronger after the change to allow crits/resistance. Issue it there are not enough crit resistance in the game to handle the now 1.8-1.9 modifers floating around cyro.

Sorcs also have bound aegis for not only 8% more max mag adding to their shields, but having access to the same block mitigation, if not superior, to that of DK/warden builds running SNB.

pieratsos

ccmedaddy wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Bruh did you just really compare heavy armor magplar to magsorc Is that really the hill you want to die on

No I did not compare them in terms of effectiveness and performance. That wasn't even the point so dunno how u made that conclusion. Probably to complex for you to understand.

I mean, your point was that a bad player would have just as an easy time surviving and doing dmg on a heavy armor magplar as they would on a magsorc and that is clearly false. Magsorc can easily have everything that a HA magplar has minus cleanse--high resistances, SnB backbar, a burst heal that rivals BoL. And that's on top of class-specifc defenses like strong shields and superior mobility.

Yes buddy a bad magsorc in light armor who cant keep shields up sitting there spamming crystal blast can be infact easier to kill than a freaking healbot holding block spamming breath of life whenever his hp move. Key word is bad player or new player whichever you prefer since we are talking about learning curve. Not a full toolkit sorc that knows the class. And yes magsorc can in fact have almost everything that a magplar has. Completely irrelevant however with my point.

ccmedaddy wrote: »

And then there's the fact that you did in fact compare magsorc offense to a HA magplar casting backlash on an enemy and waiting for teammates to deal dmg... I don't think I need to explain why this was a bad comparison.

No thats not a comparison between magsorc offense to a magplar. Thats just pointing out that backlash is a noob friendly ability which can be easily used by a bad player. So yes you dont need to explain why this is a bad comparison because the point flew way over your head.

You are in fact right about one thing tho. I did sort of compared them when i literally said that magsorc is more dangerous offensively than a magplar. Do you need me to explain to you what that means? Maybe you should read next time instead of scanning through the text and start writing nonsense.

To make it more simple. I did not at any point compare the effectiveness and performance of the two classes as a whole except in the last sentence when i literally said that a sorc is more dangerous offensively. I was just pointing out a subjective point of view and giving an example of a worse class to back up the argument that "better performing class does not equal to easier to get into".

Lord-Otto

Minno wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.

Its also the other way around. I feel the ceiling that a sorc can reach in top tier gameplay is limited due to class limitations

In the highest MMR bg's on our server, I would rather fight a team of pet sorcs rather than well top tier stam players

The mag sorc is bound to get shredded with a well timed burst combos as they need to face tank all the damage and dont synergize well with their team mates.

There is no shimerring shield, wings or cloak to avoid certain death and no cp has limited dodge roll capabilities for mag classes. The only thing which would have saved you was the 30k non crittable shield stack which no longer exist after shield nerfs

shields became stronger after the change to allow crits/resistance. Issue it there are not enough crit resistance in the game to handle the now 1.8-1.9 modifers floating around cyro.

Sorcs also have bound aegis for not only 8% more max mag adding to their shields, but having access to the same block mitigation, if not superior, to that of DK/warden builds running SNB.

Oh, come now. No one uses Bound Aegis unless absolutely trolling. Not slotted, and definitely not activated.
And I think blocking still doesn't mitigate damage done to shields?

PhoenixGrey

Minno wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.

Its also the other way around. I feel the ceiling that a sorc can reach in top tier gameplay is limited due to class limitations

In the highest MMR bg's on our server, I would rather fight a team of pet sorcs rather than well top tier stam players

The mag sorc is bound to get shredded with a well timed burst combos as they need to face tank all the damage and dont synergize well with their team mates.

There is no shimerring shield, wings or cloak to avoid certain death and no cp has limited dodge roll capabilities for mag classes. The only thing which would have saved you was the 30k non crittable shield stack which no longer exist after shield nerfs

shields became stronger after the change to allow crits/resistance. Issue it there are not enough crit resistance in the game to handle the now 1.8-1.9 modifers floating around cyro.

Nope they are not stronger unless you want to hit like a wet doodle or be a zergling with a pocket healer providing all the resists. A necro / lich sorc ideally has more than 50k mag with divines and infused. As long as you played the class the right way and kept your shields up I feel uncrittable shields would've been much stronger in this pet sorc meta.

Derra

Daus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

To be honest it's not even about the under performing of some classes. Mag sorcs are by far the safest pick for pvp for a new player. They outperform any other class (some by a stupid amount) and for a class that can delete people from a mile away it is really mobile and tanky. Like i don't know how people are still in denial about it.

The devs are clearly in denial about it as well. Like magsorcs are really out of control in this expansion.

It’s people like you I have to thank for having my games filled with bot sorcs. Yeah, magsorc is def strong but idk I why it would be a good choice for a noob player. Bad sorcs and nbs are pretty much the easiest kills possible.

It's a good choice for a noob player because it has easy to play mechanics that have a much shorter learning curve than the other classes

• I don;t want to be here: *streak* gone. Every other class has to either build or at least think how to leave a situation they don;t want to be in (although NBs come close, without detect pots they be on an even higher level)
• I want to kill that guy: preloaded executed, undodgable/unblockable burst in 3.5 seconds, RNG max range (another) burst. At least a NB has to weave light attacks and time their execute.
• I need healing: Do I press my burst heal that hits two targets for max value or do I press my shield button that gives me virtual health equivalent to a burst heal?

That's all easy peasy comparatively speaking. What is questionable is that these same easy peasy mechanics also happen to be at least as strong - if not stronger - than other classes' mechanics that are are more complex and restrictive.

Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.

I would however not say that a heavyarmor meta stamina build is much more difficult to play than a sorc - generally speaking.

Both need adjustment in my opinion, but there's a lot more than needs adjustment than just that.

Imo shieldstacking needs adjustment (as in needs to be patched out of the game since 2014 now) for sorcs and 1h and shield needs to be brought in line with other weapon skilllines (including destro staff) in terms of main/frontbar viability.

Then maybe fury + seventh but i´m not even too sure on those if they can´t be paired with sword and board.

Montimer94

It’s easy:

- Cheesy pet magsorcs = OP
- Non pet magsorcs = normal

I play a non pet magsorc for some years and no, I can’t kill everybody with a curse+frag+wrath combo because it’s hard to land and because people go tanky and healthy.

And for those who say magsorc is unkillable, maybe stunning them is a good idea.

Emma_Overload

Iskiab wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

To be honest it's not even about the under performing of some classes. Mag sorcs are by far the safest pick for pvp for a new player. They outperform any other class (some by a stupid amount) and for a class that can delete people from a mile away it is really mobile and tanky. Like i don't know how people are still in denial about it.

The devs are clearly in denial about it as well. Like magsorcs are really out of control in this expansion.

Good players don't let you delete them from a mile away. There is no such thing as ranged combat in ESO unless you are hiding in the middle of a Zerg or you are a cowardly stealthed ganker with a bow.

Do you actually believe this? I’m trying to figure out if you always play solo, getting heated so it’s hyperbole, or just extremely biased.

I play solo roughly 80% of the time, and I am in the Imperial City 99%. It is not possible to "Streak off into the sunset" in the IC. Hell, it's barely possible to Streak more than twice in a straight line in the City! There are mobs and walls everywhere. That's not to say escape is impossible all the time for a Sorc, but there are players out there who have mastered the art of gap closing so that they always catch you.

My experience has been that all combat is close quarters combat, all other things being equal. The only chances I get to fight at a comfortable range are those rare occasions that I am in a group and outnumber the enemy. My typical fights are 1v1 versus DKs that lock you down or NBs that buzz around you like angry wasps.

Neloth

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

To be honest it's not even about the under performing of some classes. Mag sorcs are by far the safest pick for pvp for a new player. They outperform any other class (some by a stupid amount) and for a class that can delete people from a mile away it is really mobile and tanky. Like i don't know how people are still in denial about it.

The devs are clearly in denial about it as well. Like magsorcs are really out of control in this expansion.

Good players don't let you delete them from a mile away. There is no such thing as ranged combat in ESO unless you are hiding in the middle of a Zerg or you are a cowardly stealthed ganker with a bow.

Do you actually believe this? I’m trying to figure out if you always play solo, getting heated so it’s hyperbole, or just extremely biased.

I play solo roughly 80% of the time, and I am in the Imperial City 99%. It is not possible to "Streak off into the sunset" in the IC. Hell, it's barely possible to Streak more than twice in a straight line in the City! There are mobs and walls everywhere.

Sometimes I can't understand (edit) if you are really serious or trolling.

Streaking in IC is much easier compared to streaking in open world Cyro or BGs.

When you streak through mobs, you usually CC them (at least the small ones), while your opponent has to gap close to you instead of your bird, engine guardian, and all those other NPC mobs which you leave behind CCed. With current state of targeting in ESO it is really complicated, and if you ever tried playing non-sorc in IC, you would have known that.

And if you streak INTO THE WALL, idk, lol. Have you tried turning your camera around and streaking in between the walls instead?

When you streak -> dodge around the corner -> streak a few more times, no-one will ever gap close to you because of LoS of that corner. Especially when there were some NPCs on your way. Walls actually help, sometimes.

Emma_Overload

Neloth wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

To be honest it's not even about the under performing of some classes. Mag sorcs are by far the safest pick for pvp for a new player. They outperform any other class (some by a stupid amount) and for a class that can delete people from a mile away it is really mobile and tanky. Like i don't know how people are still in denial about it.

The devs are clearly in denial about it as well. Like magsorcs are really out of control in this expansion.

Good players don't let you delete them from a mile away. There is no such thing as ranged combat in ESO unless you are hiding in the middle of a Zerg or you are a cowardly stealthed ganker with a bow.

Do you actually believe this? I’m trying to figure out if you always play solo, getting heated so it’s hyperbole, or just extremely biased.

I play solo roughly 80% of the time, and I am in the Imperial City 99%. It is not possible to "Streak off into the sunset" in the IC. Hell, it's barely possible to Streak more than twice in a straight line in the City! There are mobs and walls everywhere.

Sometimes I can't understand (edit) if you are really serious or trolling.

Streaking in IC is much easier compared to streaking in open world Cyro or BGs.

When you streak through mobs, you usually CC them (at least the small ones), while your opponent has to gap close to you instead of your bird, engine guardian, and all those other NPC mobs which you leave behind CCed. With current state of targeting in ESO it is really complicated, and if you ever tried playing non-sorc in IC, you would have known that.

And if you streak INTO THE WALL, idk, lol. Have you tried turning your camera around and streaking in between the walls instead?

When you streak -> dodge around the corner -> streak a few more times, no-one will ever gap close to you because of LoS of that corner. Especially when there were some NPCs on your way. Walls actually help, sometimes.

You don't get it. They USE the mobs to help them gap close. If they can't target you because you streaked just out of range, they'll just use the nearest mob instead, like Tarzan swinging from vine to vine. This is why they can still catch up to a Sorc even if the Sorc is way out ahead.

Koensol

Opened the thread and went through checklist:

-Delusional, biased and emotion filled posts from @Emma_Overload --> check

-Sorcs playing victim --> check

-"Nerf sorc" memes being posted in a pathetic attempt to counter valid arguments --> check

-Fury/7th/bs SnB builds being brought up to somehow prove sorcs aren't that OP --> check

-The never ending "Sorc can't burst a good player" nonsense --> check

-Sorcs complaining they are not OP because they cannot do X as well as class X (while performing very good in most other aspects of combat) --> check

Yea... looks like the usual sorc thread to me