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The "Balance" of Mag Sorcs
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Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.
Its also the other way around. I feel the ceiling that a sorc can reach in top tier gameplay is limited due to class limitations
In the highest MMR bg's on our server, I would rather fight a team of pet sorcs rather than well top tier stam players
The mag sorc is bound to get shredded with a well timed burst combos as they need to face tank all the damage and dont synergize well with their team mates.
There is no shimerring shield, wings or cloak to avoid certain death and no cp has limited dodge roll capabilities for mag classes. The only thing which would have saved you was the 30k non crittable shield stack which no longer exist after shield nerfs
shields became stronger after the change to allow crits/resistance. Issue it there are not enough crit resistance in the game to handle the now 1.8-1.9 modifers floating around cyro.
Sorcs also have bound aegis for not only 8% more max mag adding to their shields, but having access to the same block mitigation, if not superior, to that of DK/warden builds running SNB.
Oh, come now. No one uses Bound Aegis unless absolutely trolling. Not slotted, and definitely not activated.
And I think blocking still doesn't mitigate damage done to shields?
yea you are right bound ageis is doo doo if you already have a 10k shield at 2300 cost lol.
its what happens after the shields (assuming there is still dmg left).
Shields against a basic typical cyro targetCRIT (1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 6981
6981 - 10k shield = 3018 shield left.
Total Mit = 100% (shield protected fully)
Higher tooltip dmg (though not many above 25k unless glass cannon):CRIT (1.415 MOD):
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 35,375 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
35,375 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 11636
11636 - 10k shield = 1636 dmg
Total Mit = 95.7178% on shield+armor+3300 crit resists
with block:
1636 dmg * (1-50/100) = 818 dmg with basic block
Total Mit = 97.859%
But of course the shield is only subtracting an attack each time and the value carries over. 2x 15k attacks:CRIT (1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 6981
6981 - 3018 shield left (from the first example) = 3963 dmg
Then is blocked:
3963 * (1-50/100) = 1981
Total Mit = 91.358% in this case
97%+ mitigation without heavy resists nor major protection is OVER-PERFORMING.
And if you compare the shield back when they protected against crits but armor was after the shield (using the higher tooltip so you can see the comparison of dmg hitting a sorc):CRIT (1.415 MOD):Total Mit = 93.548% on shield
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(no crits allowed under old formula) * (1+(8)/100) = 35,375 * (1.08)
35,375 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50) = 12,689.79075
Then shield subtracts:
12,689 - 10000 = * armor (0.917) = 2465
2465 dmg
Total Mit = 93.548% on shield
with block:
2465 * (1-50/100) = 1232with basic block
Total Mit with block included= 96.4821%
Conclusion:
shields over performing and need to adjust calculation and or sorc shield value to where they reduced dmg before mitigation.
93%/96% versus 95%/97% total mitigation.
I would recommend the following changes to shields calculated:
- decrease sorc shield so its below 10k to match other shields.
If you place something like a 5k shield in its place:CRIT (1.415 MOD):Total Mit = 85.1068 in this case which matches closer to relying on solely block mitigation and if you block it doesn't go into the mid 90%'s
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 8,223.70185
8,223.70185 - 4500 shield = 3,723 dmg
- or adjust the formula entirely (might help with lag):1st adjust the duration so you can cast it and it last like 18 seconds like it used to.
Then adjust the formula:
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(no crits allowed) * same vuln as live (1+(8-0)/100) = 35,375 * (1.08)
35,375 * (1.08) - 20000 (no battlespirit on shield values) = 18,205
18,205 *(.73) *(.91)*(no battlespirit mitigation allowed on attackers dmg) = 12,093.5815
Then armor and block are applied subtracts (non crit; crit and crit resistance can apply here if this dmg crits):
12,093.5815 * (0.917) = 11,089 dmg
Total Mit = 55.0321%
with block:
17180 * (1-50/100) = 8590 with basic block
Total Mit = 77.516%
Total Mit = 55.0321% without block
Total Mit = 77.516% with block
The second option would makes shield more like health and about protecting against burst instead of casting it like a buff and stacking so you ignore dmg; it also amkes it so classes with terrible 4k shields can get back the 10k shields they once had boosting their defense. First option is closer to the class audit they missed out on.
Block mitigation changes will need to be looked at as well. Only thing I can think of is removing the 0.5s cost for 1s and dropping the base mitigation to 25% from 50%. This way snb retains base block 50% and its only a slight nerf to DK pve tanks since we can assume the block mitigation stacking will be bringing them closer to pre-nerf levels:Current :
15000 dmg * base block 0.50 = 7500
15000 dmg * base block 0.50* other block mitigation ((1-(20snb + 10% DK+def Post 8)/100) = 15000 dmg * base block (0.50) * other block mitigation * (0.62) = 4,875
New changes:
15000 dmg * base block (.75) = 11,250
15000 dmg * base block (1-25/100)* other block mitigation ((1-(20snb + 10% DK+def Post 8)/100)
15000 dmg * base block (.75) instead of (.50) * other block mitigation ((1-(38)/100) = 6,975
Gosh, those are a lot of numbers just to say for you: "nerf shields!".
You're forgetting two things, heals and dodges. Shields are supposed to keep your health untouched. Because if they wouldn't, you needed a lot more heals. Sure, nerf them. But then give us magicka Vigor. Shields are quite bursty, but stamina gets additional dodgerolls to protect health 100% in a burst. Also helps avoid CCs and debuffs.
That mitigation calculation isn't a good argument. Just say that you want shields nerfed.
Dodge has cost increase mechanic and only can dodge direct instant cast. Shields do not.
You also can't compare shields to dodge because everyone can dodge roll, not everyone can shield unless they wear a certain armor.
Battlespirit and uncrit are great changes because it buffs lower shields while nerfing the strongest shield in the game.
Unless sorcs want to drop pets or speed lol
Stamina gets MORE dodgerolls than magicka, I said that. That's certainly an advantage.
That's fine because mag gets the shield access.
There's a way to nerf it 1v1 and make it better for versatile situations.
Doubt it. That was the idea behind the last rework already. Certain people were already licking their lips upon the thought of sorcs no longer wEarINg FuLl diVInes ANd tHreE daMAge SeTs. And... here we are, in full impen, with a defensive monster set. And those people still vent. If you can learn one thing from the forums of the last years, it's that people here will ALWAYS, ALWAYSALWAYSAAALLWAYYYS complain about sorcs, periodfullstopdot.
Just move your attention to the underperforming classes.
Only a few of us knew it buffed shields lol. Though some of us hoped it made smaller shields better but it didn't lolMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.
Its also the other way around. I feel the ceiling that a sorc can reach in top tier gameplay is limited due to class limitations
In the highest MMR bg's on our server, I would rather fight a team of pet sorcs rather than well top tier stam players
The mag sorc is bound to get shredded with a well timed burst combos as they need to face tank all the damage and dont synergize well with their team mates.
There is no shimerring shield, wings or cloak to avoid certain death and no cp has limited dodge roll capabilities for mag classes. The only thing which would have saved you was the 30k non crittable shield stack which no longer exist after shield nerfs
shields became stronger after the change to allow crits/resistance. Issue it there are not enough crit resistance in the game to handle the now 1.8-1.9 modifers floating around cyro.
Sorcs also have bound aegis for not only 8% more max mag adding to their shields, but having access to the same block mitigation, if not superior, to that of DK/warden builds running SNB.
Oh, come now. No one uses Bound Aegis unless absolutely trolling. Not slotted, and definitely not activated.
And I think blocking still doesn't mitigate damage done to shields?
yea you are right bound ageis is doo doo if you already have a 10k shield at 2300 cost lol.
its what happens after the shields (assuming there is still dmg left).
Shields against a basic typical cyro targetCRIT (1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 6981
6981 - 10k shield = 3018 shield left.
Total Mit = 100% (shield protected fully)
Higher tooltip dmg (though not many above 25k unless glass cannon):CRIT (1.415 MOD):
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 35,375 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
35,375 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 11636
11636 - 10k shield = 1636 dmg
Total Mit = 95.7178% on shield+armor+3300 crit resists
with block:
1636 dmg * (1-50/100) = 818 dmg with basic block
Total Mit = 97.859%
But of course the shield is only subtracting an attack each time and the value carries over. 2x 15k attacks:CRIT (1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 6981
6981 - 3018 shield left (from the first example) = 3963 dmg
Then is blocked:
3963 * (1-50/100) = 1981
Total Mit = 91.358% in this case
97%+ mitigation without heavy resists nor major protection is OVER-PERFORMING.
And if you compare the shield back when they protected against crits but armor was after the shield (using the higher tooltip so you can see the comparison of dmg hitting a sorc):CRIT (1.415 MOD):Total Mit = 93.548% on shield
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(no crits allowed under old formula) * (1+(8)/100) = 35,375 * (1.08)
35,375 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50) = 12,689.79075
Then shield subtracts:
12,689 - 10000 = * armor (0.917) = 2465
2465 dmg
Total Mit = 93.548% on shield
with block:
2465 * (1-50/100) = 1232with basic block
Total Mit with block included= 96.4821%
Conclusion:
shields over performing and need to adjust calculation and or sorc shield value to where they reduced dmg before mitigation.
93%/96% versus 95%/97% total mitigation.
I would recommend the following changes to shields calculated:
- decrease sorc shield so its below 10k to match other shields.
If you place something like a 5k shield in its place:CRIT (1.415 MOD):Total Mit = 85.1068 in this case which matches closer to relying on solely block mitigation and if you block it doesn't go into the mid 90%'s
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 8,223.70185
8,223.70185 - 4500 shield = 3,723 dmg
- or adjust the formula entirely (might help with lag):1st adjust the duration so you can cast it and it last like 18 seconds like it used to.
Then adjust the formula:
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(no crits allowed) * same vuln as live (1+(8-0)/100) = 35,375 * (1.08)
35,375 * (1.08) - 20000 (no battlespirit on shield values) = 18,205
18,205 *(.73) *(.91)*(no battlespirit mitigation allowed on attackers dmg) = 12,093.5815
Then armor and block are applied subtracts (non crit; crit and crit resistance can apply here if this dmg crits):
12,093.5815 * (0.917) = 11,089 dmg
Total Mit = 55.0321%
with block:
17180 * (1-50/100) = 8590 with basic block
Total Mit = 77.516%
Total Mit = 55.0321% without block
Total Mit = 77.516% with block
The second option would makes shield more like health and about protecting against burst instead of casting it like a buff and stacking so you ignore dmg; it also amkes it so classes with terrible 4k shields can get back the 10k shields they once had boosting their defense. First option is closer to the class audit they missed out on.
Block mitigation changes will need to be looked at as well. Only thing I can think of is removing the 0.5s cost for 1s and dropping the base mitigation to 25% from 50%. This way snb retains base block 50% and its only a slight nerf to DK pve tanks since we can assume the block mitigation stacking will be bringing them closer to pre-nerf levels:Current :
15000 dmg * base block 0.50 = 7500
15000 dmg * base block 0.50* other block mitigation ((1-(20snb + 10% DK+def Post 8)/100) = 15000 dmg * base block (0.50) * other block mitigation * (0.62) = 4,875
New changes:
15000 dmg * base block (.75) = 11,250
15000 dmg * base block (1-25/100)* other block mitigation ((1-(20snb + 10% DK+def Post 8)/100)
15000 dmg * base block (.75) instead of (.50) * other block mitigation ((1-(38)/100) = 6,975
Gosh, those are a lot of numbers just to say for you: "nerf shields!".
You're forgetting two things, heals and dodges. Shields are supposed to keep your health untouched. Because if they wouldn't, you needed a lot more heals. Sure, nerf them. But then give us magicka Vigor. Shields are quite bursty, but stamina gets additional dodgerolls to protect health 100% in a burst. Also helps avoid CCs and debuffs.
That mitigation calculation isn't a good argument. Just say that you want shields nerfed.
Dodge has cost increase mechanic and only can dodge direct instant cast. Shields do not.
You also can't compare shields to dodge because everyone can dodge roll, not everyone can shield unless they wear a certain armor.
Battlespirit and uncrit are great changes because it buffs lower shields while nerfing the strongest shield in the game.
Unless sorcs want to drop pets or speed lol
Stamina gets MORE dodgerolls than magicka, I said that. That's certainly an advantage.
That's fine because mag gets the shield access.
There's a way to nerf it 1v1 and make it better for versatile situations.
Doubt it. That was the idea behind the last rework already. Certain people were already licking their lips upon the thought of sorcs no longer wEarINg FuLl diVInes ANd tHreE daMAge SeTs. And... here we are, in full impen, with a defensive monster set. And those people still vent. If you can learn one thing from the forums of the last years, it's that people here will ALWAYS, ALWAYSALWAYSAAALLWAYYYS complain about sorcs, periodfullstopdot.
Just move your attention to the underperforming classes.
Only a few of us knew it buffed shields lol. Though some of us hoped it made smaller shields better but it didn't lol
You are really biasied about sorc.
Shields got buffed because sorcs sacrifise damage for resists. This is a trade between damage and tankiness.
Harness magicka by it self and the stacking with hardened is a problem, nerfing shields in general or nerfing Hardened ward is not a solution at all.4 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.
Its also the other way around. I feel the ceiling that a sorc can reach in top tier gameplay is limited due to class limitations
In the highest MMR bg's on our server, I would rather fight a team of pet sorcs rather than well top tier stam players
The mag sorc is bound to get shredded with a well timed burst combos as they need to face tank all the damage and dont synergize well with their team mates.
There is no shimerring shield, wings or cloak to avoid certain death and no cp has limited dodge roll capabilities for mag classes. The only thing which would have saved you was the 30k non crittable shield stack which no longer exist after shield nerfs
shields became stronger after the change to allow crits/resistance. Issue it there are not enough crit resistance in the game to handle the now 1.8-1.9 modifers floating around cyro.
Sorcs also have bound aegis for not only 8% more max mag adding to their shields, but having access to the same block mitigation, if not superior, to that of DK/warden builds running SNB.
Oh, come now. No one uses Bound Aegis unless absolutely trolling. Not slotted, and definitely not activated.
And I think blocking still doesn't mitigate damage done to shields?
yea you are right bound ageis is doo doo if you already have a 10k shield at 2300 cost lol.
its what happens after the shields (assuming there is still dmg left).
Shields against a basic typical cyro targetCRIT (1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 6981
6981 - 10k shield = 3018 shield left.
Total Mit = 100% (shield protected fully)
Higher tooltip dmg (though not many above 25k unless glass cannon):CRIT (1.415 MOD):
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 35,375 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
35,375 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 11636
11636 - 10k shield = 1636 dmg
Total Mit = 95.7178% on shield+armor+3300 crit resists
with block:
1636 dmg * (1-50/100) = 818 dmg with basic block
Total Mit = 97.859%
But of course the shield is only subtracting an attack each time and the value carries over. 2x 15k attacks:CRIT (1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 6981
6981 - 3018 shield left (from the first example) = 3963 dmg
Then is blocked:
3963 * (1-50/100) = 1981
Total Mit = 91.358% in this case
97%+ mitigation without heavy resists nor major protection is OVER-PERFORMING.
And if you compare the shield back when they protected against crits but armor was after the shield (using the higher tooltip so you can see the comparison of dmg hitting a sorc):CRIT (1.415 MOD):Total Mit = 93.548% on shield
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(no crits allowed under old formula) * (1+(8)/100) = 35,375 * (1.08)
35,375 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50) = 12,689.79075
Then shield subtracts:
12,689 - 10000 = * armor (0.917) = 2465
2465 dmg
Total Mit = 93.548% on shield
with block:
2465 * (1-50/100) = 1232with basic block
Total Mit with block included= 96.4821%
Conclusion:
shields over performing and need to adjust calculation and or sorc shield value to where they reduced dmg before mitigation.
93%/96% versus 95%/97% total mitigation.
I would recommend the following changes to shields calculated:
- decrease sorc shield so its below 10k to match other shields.
If you place something like a 5k shield in its place:CRIT (1.415 MOD):Total Mit = 85.1068 in this case which matches closer to relying on solely block mitigation and if you block it doesn't go into the mid 90%'s
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 8,223.70185
8,223.70185 - 4500 shield = 3,723 dmg
- or adjust the formula entirely (might help with lag):1st adjust the duration so you can cast it and it last like 18 seconds like it used to.
Then adjust the formula:
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(no crits allowed) * same vuln as live (1+(8-0)/100) = 35,375 * (1.08)
35,375 * (1.08) - 20000 (no battlespirit on shield values) = 18,205
18,205 *(.73) *(.91)*(no battlespirit mitigation allowed on attackers dmg) = 12,093.5815
Then armor and block are applied subtracts (non crit; crit and crit resistance can apply here if this dmg crits):
12,093.5815 * (0.917) = 11,089 dmg
Total Mit = 55.0321%
with block:
17180 * (1-50/100) = 8590 with basic block
Total Mit = 77.516%
Total Mit = 55.0321% without block
Total Mit = 77.516% with block
The second option would makes shield more like health and about protecting against burst instead of casting it like a buff and stacking so you ignore dmg; it also amkes it so classes with terrible 4k shields can get back the 10k shields they once had boosting their defense. First option is closer to the class audit they missed out on.
Block mitigation changes will need to be looked at as well. Only thing I can think of is removing the 0.5s cost for 1s and dropping the base mitigation to 25% from 50%. This way snb retains base block 50% and its only a slight nerf to DK pve tanks since we can assume the block mitigation stacking will be bringing them closer to pre-nerf levels:Current :
15000 dmg * base block 0.50 = 7500
15000 dmg * base block 0.50* other block mitigation ((1-(20snb + 10% DK+def Post 8)/100) = 15000 dmg * base block (0.50) * other block mitigation * (0.62) = 4,875
New changes:
15000 dmg * base block (.75) = 11,250
15000 dmg * base block (1-25/100)* other block mitigation ((1-(20snb + 10% DK+def Post 8)/100)
15000 dmg * base block (.75) instead of (.50) * other block mitigation ((1-(38)/100) = 6,975
Gosh, those are a lot of numbers just to say for you: "nerf shields!".
You're forgetting two things, heals and dodges. Shields are supposed to keep your health untouched. Because if they wouldn't, you needed a lot more heals. Sure, nerf them. But then give us magicka Vigor. Shields are quite bursty, but stamina gets additional dodgerolls to protect health 100% in a burst. Also helps avoid CCs and debuffs.
That mitigation calculation isn't a good argument. Just say that you want shields nerfed.
Dodge has cost increase mechanic and only can dodge direct instant cast. Shields do not.
You also can't compare shields to dodge because everyone can dodge roll, not everyone can shield unless they wear a certain armor.
Battlespirit and uncrit are great changes because it buffs lower shields while nerfing the strongest shield in the game.
Unless sorcs want to drop pets or speed lol
Stamina gets MORE dodgerolls than magicka, I said that. That's certainly an advantage.
That's fine because mag gets the shield access.
There's a way to nerf it 1v1 and make it better for versatile situations.
Doubt it. That was the idea behind the last rework already. Certain people were already licking their lips upon the thought of sorcs no longer wEarINg FuLl diVInes ANd tHreE daMAge SeTs. And... here we are, in full impen, with a defensive monster set. And those people still vent. If you can learn one thing from the forums of the last years, it's that people here will ALWAYS, ALWAYSALWAYSAAALLWAYYYS complain about sorcs, periodfullstopdot.
Just move your attention to the underperforming classes.
Only a few of us knew it buffed shields lol. Though some of us hoped it made smaller shields better but it didn't lol
It didn't. It was a nerf, through and through. Sorcs simply did what they're always told - they adapted. In this case, adapted to the resistance meta we have and which is not unique to sorcs or magicka.
And it didn't work! On a large scale, shields aren't more powerful than stamina defenses. It's the PET that pushed sorc over the threshold. And you want to punish non-pet sorcs as much as pet ones. Don't you see the problem here?
Again, just improve the lacking classes. This game certainly doesn't need more nerfs and even more boring combat.3 -
Illuvatarr✭✭✭✭✭Illuvatarr wrote: »Illuvatarr wrote: »Balance and magsorcs in the same sentence. You almost had me though, I'll give you a 1/10 for the effort. 😂😂😂
I made a magsorc and had to drop it within two weeks because i felt dirty playing that character.
I am going to need to stand on a chair to stand above the level of hyperbole fueled horse manure and *** drama contained the absolute lie in the above post.
I've saw you in sotha plenty of times when i was pvping more often. You're not a good sorc.
When people say sorcs are op, they're not talking about the average joe.
We can duel some time then if you like:) happy to learn from you.
Been there, done that. You were running 2 pets, and kept resetting streaking away and LOSing behind rocks.
Shoveling copious quantities of more manure I see. I don’t run two pets. I do run the matriarch and am one of the few sorcs who has since launch. You may need a larger shovel:)
Edited by Illuvatarr on June 22, 2019 6:48PM1 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You're also one of the weakest high mmr sorcs on pc na. Every time i've seen you in a game you've had more death than kills. That's quite an achievement on a magsorc.
Are you sure it is me you are talking about ? . I don't die much at all even against 2 premades and I am never in a premade myself. I do admit that I die a lot on my magden though maybe that's what you were referring to ?
Whether weak or strong you are free to form your own opinion. I can share you screenshots offline on taking down premades of well known players on my solo mag sorc if you are interested.
I have also recorded a 1v4v4 in a high MMR bg where the game thought I didn't need any team mates which I am perfectly ok with TBH
I honestly expected more from you rather than calling out individual player's skill level on these potato forums. I wouldn't do that if I were you.
Edited by PhoenixGrey on June 22, 2019 7:07PM1 -
Illuvatarr✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Illuvatarr wrote: »Mag sorcs are fine. If anything they, and the other mag classes, need stronger defenses against bow users to put them on par with stamina classes. All of the stamina classes are still superior to mag sorcs in the hands of equally skilled players.
That’s not true. There is very little any class can do to beat a magsorc in a 1v1. Some stamina builds may have a easier time dealing with them but overall they are still disadvantaged vs a magsorc. Sorc defenses are just too strong right now when boosted by resistances. So if you manage to get through the shields you still have to burst through 26k worth of resistances and 26k health before the sorc gets his burst heal from the matriarch. It’s just not going to happen against anyone that has decent experience at this game. Especially when you add that your burst combo will likely be interrupted due to the sorc LoSing around pets.
That’s just the defenses, the icing on the cake is the offense. The sorc has an all range toolkit with two abilities hitting harder than most ultimates in curse and frags with curse being completely unavoidable unless you have a class purge. Then you add in the dot from however many pets you are running giving you very easy to apply damage because most of it is fire and forget. No need to get into the mobility with streak and the sustain from dark exchange. I’m fine with sorcs having high damage and good mobility, but something has to be done with sorcs defensive. A class shouldn’t have the best mobility, the best damage mitigation in shield stanking and the highest burst damage. That’s just too op.
They don’t unless the slot bound aegis, block and not be mobile. Dodge roll/stealth/wings and other abilities are much stronger defense than a mag sorc has. If you are having trouble targeting the sorc with multiple pets I agree with you and pets should not be targettable in pvp. However something will need to be given to mag sorcs and ranged classes in general to be able to utilize zone terrain for los like stam classes can and to be able to dodge as much as stam classes can.
0 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nirnroot420 wrote: »@MaxJrFTW
I get getting frustrated about a particular class or build that's wrecking you. Just learn from the mistakes and get better.
Templars, in particular, have been buffed this patch to handle magsorcs. The improvements to gap closers mean that a purifying/vamp bane/toppling charge/sweeps/crescent combo puts most magsorcs down (high or low MMR) in seconds. If they survivve it, block heal until their burst passes and do it again, but better this time.
Magsorcs are hit hard by CCs since shields are so essential to their survivability, and they obviously can't cast it while under CC. They also can't take sustained melee pressure and streaking away hits their resources while your gap closers are likely cheaper.
Calling magsorcs who disagree with you "average" or "weak" (especially in addressing @PhoenixGrey in these terms) betrays your saltiness.
Its ok dude. I think he has said what he wants to say and he is entitled to his opinion. He thinks I am trash and I m ok with it. He just needs more farming
and he will be fine TBH.
He thinks these threads are only about top tier mag sorcs. Why the hell would a entire thread of 6.5k views be just for a 1-2% players in this game? Makes no sense whatsoever !
Though I do like the much needed buffs to magplars this patch.
. Bring back speedy mist as well 0 -
Nirnroot420✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Nirnroot420 wrote: »@MaxJrFTW
I get getting frustrated about a particular class or build that's wrecking you. Just learn from the mistakes and get better.
Templars, in particular, have been buffed this patch to handle magsorcs. The improvements to gap closers mean that a purifying/vamp bane/toppling charge/sweeps/crescent combo puts most magsorcs down (high or low MMR) in seconds. If they survivve it, block heal until their burst passes and do it again, but better this time.
Magsorcs are hit hard by CCs since shields are so essential to their survivability, and they obviously can't cast it while under CC. They also can't take sustained melee pressure and streaking away hits their resources while your gap closers are likely cheaper.
Calling magsorcs who disagree with you "average" or "weak" (especially in addressing @PhoenixGrey in these terms) betrays your saltiness.
Its ok dude. I think he has said what he wants to say and he is entitled to his opinion. He thinks I am trash and I m ok with it. He just needs more farming and he will be fine TBH.
He thinks these threads are only about top tier mag sorcs. Why the hell would a entire thread of 6.5k views be just for a 1-2% players in this game? Makes no sense whatsoever !
Though I do like the much needed buffs to magplars this patch. . Bring back speedy mist as well
Absolutely. I was just giving him some advice cause I see him bopping around on a magplar every now and then. I just don't understand the recent complaints about imbalance in pvp; except for pummeling bash and mitigation being a bit out of whack, balance is fun and magsorcs are not overpowered in the slightest in Catland. Flavor of the month, maybe, but that just means a lot of easy kills.
And what I said applies to most builds that have a gap closer, hardly just templar. Streak is costly on a sorc, and no other gap closer in the game has the increased cost mechanic, meaning a sorc straking spamming escape can't outsustain you. Sorcs can be annoying if you cant close the distance to pressure, and they certainly hard counter those builds that lack mobility. But if you lack mobility to that extent, you should be built tanky enough to withstand a sorcs burst and at least cause a stalemate, as long as player skill is equal.1 -
Killset✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.
Its also the other way around. I feel the ceiling that a sorc can reach in top tier gameplay is limited due to class limitations
In the highest MMR bg's on our server, I would rather fight a team of pet sorcs rather than well top tier stam players
The mag sorc is bound to get shredded with a well timed burst combos as they need to face tank all the damage and dont synergize well with their team mates.
There is no shimerring shield, wings or cloak to avoid certain death and no cp has limited dodge roll capabilities for mag classes. The only thing which would have saved you was the 30k non crittable shield stack which no longer exist after shield nerfs
shields became stronger after the change to allow crits/resistance. Issue it there are not enough crit resistance in the game to handle the now 1.8-1.9 modifers floating around cyro.
Sorcs also have bound aegis for not only 8% more max mag adding to their shields, but having access to the same block mitigation, if not superior, to that of DK/warden builds running SNB.
Oh, come now. No one uses Bound Aegis unless absolutely trolling. Not slotted, and definitely not activated.
And I think blocking still doesn't mitigate damage done to shields?
yea you are right bound ageis is doo doo if you already have a 10k shield at 2300 cost lol.
its what happens after the shields (assuming there is still dmg left).
Shields against a basic typical cyro targetCRIT (1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 6981
6981 - 10k shield = 3018 shield left.
Total Mit = 100% (shield protected fully)
Higher tooltip dmg (though not many above 25k unless glass cannon):CRIT (1.415 MOD):
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 35,375 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
35,375 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 11636
11636 - 10k shield = 1636 dmg
Total Mit = 95.7178% on shield+armor+3300 crit resists
with block:
1636 dmg * (1-50/100) = 818 dmg with basic block
Total Mit = 97.859%
But of course the shield is only subtracting an attack each time and the value carries over. 2x 15k attacks:CRIT (1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 6981
6981 - 3018 shield left (from the first example) = 3963 dmg
Then is blocked:
3963 * (1-50/100) = 1981
Total Mit = 91.358% in this case
97%+ mitigation without heavy resists nor major protection is OVER-PERFORMING.
And if you compare the shield back when they protected against crits but armor was after the shield (using the higher tooltip so you can see the comparison of dmg hitting a sorc):CRIT (1.415 MOD):Total Mit = 93.548% on shield
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(no crits allowed under old formula) * (1+(8)/100) = 35,375 * (1.08)
35,375 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50) = 12,689.79075
Then shield subtracts:
12,689 - 10000 = * armor (0.917) = 2465
2465 dmg
Total Mit = 93.548% on shield
with block:
2465 * (1-50/100) = 1232with basic block
Total Mit with block included= 96.4821%
Conclusion:
shields over performing and need to adjust calculation and or sorc shield value to where they reduced dmg before mitigation.
93%/96% versus 95%/97% total mitigation.
I would recommend the following changes to shields calculated:
- decrease sorc shield so its below 10k to match other shields.
If you place something like a 5k shield in its place:CRIT (1.415 MOD):Total Mit = 85.1068 in this case which matches closer to relying on solely block mitigation and if you block it doesn't go into the mid 90%'s
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 8,223.70185
8,223.70185 - 4500 shield = 3,723 dmg
- or adjust the formula entirely (might help with lag):1st adjust the duration so you can cast it and it last like 18 seconds like it used to.
Then adjust the formula:
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(no crits allowed) * same vuln as live (1+(8-0)/100) = 35,375 * (1.08)
35,375 * (1.08) - 20000 (no battlespirit on shield values) = 18,205
18,205 *(.73) *(.91)*(no battlespirit mitigation allowed on attackers dmg) = 12,093.5815
Then armor and block are applied subtracts (non crit; crit and crit resistance can apply here if this dmg crits):
12,093.5815 * (0.917) = 11,089 dmg
Total Mit = 55.0321%
with block:
17180 * (1-50/100) = 8590 with basic block
Total Mit = 77.516%
Total Mit = 55.0321% without block
Total Mit = 77.516% with block
The second option would makes shield more like health and about protecting against burst instead of casting it like a buff and stacking so you ignore dmg; it also amkes it so classes with terrible 4k shields can get back the 10k shields they once had boosting their defense. First option is closer to the class audit they missed out on.
Block mitigation changes will need to be looked at as well. Only thing I can think of is removing the 0.5s cost for 1s and dropping the base mitigation to 25% from 50%. This way snb retains base block 50% and its only a slight nerf to DK pve tanks since we can assume the block mitigation stacking will be bringing them closer to pre-nerf levels:Current :
15000 dmg * base block 0.50 = 7500
15000 dmg * base block 0.50* other block mitigation ((1-(20snb + 10% DK+def Post 8)/100) = 15000 dmg * base block (0.50) * other block mitigation * (0.62) = 4,875
New changes:
15000 dmg * base block (.75) = 11,250
15000 dmg * base block (1-25/100)* other block mitigation ((1-(20snb + 10% DK+def Post 8)/100)
15000 dmg * base block (.75) instead of (.50) * other block mitigation ((1-(38)/100) = 6,975
Gosh, those are a lot of numbers just to say for you: "nerf shields!".
You're forgetting two things, heals and dodges. Shields are supposed to keep your health untouched. Because if they wouldn't, you needed a lot more heals. Sure, nerf them. But then give us magicka Vigor. Shields are quite bursty, but stamina gets additional dodgerolls to protect health 100% in a burst. Also helps avoid CCs and debuffs.
That mitigation calculation isn't a good argument. Just say that you want shields nerfed.
Dodge has cost increase mechanic and only can dodge direct instant cast. Shields do not.
You also can't compare shields to dodge because everyone can dodge roll, not everyone can shield unless they wear a certain armor.
Battlespirit and uncrit are great changes because it buffs lower shields while nerfing the strongest shield in the game.
Unless sorcs want to drop pets or speed lol
Stamina gets MORE dodgerolls than magicka, I said that. That's certainly an advantage.
That's fine because mag gets the shield access.
There's a way to nerf it 1v1 and make it better for versatile situations.
Doubt it. That was the idea behind the last rework already. Certain people were already licking their lips upon the thought of sorcs no longer wEarINg FuLl diVInes ANd tHreE daMAge SeTs. And... here we are, in full impen, with a defensive monster set. And those people still vent. If you can learn one thing from the forums of the last years, it's that people here will ALWAYS, ALWAYSALWAYSAAALLWAYYYS complain about sorcs, periodfullstopdot.
Just move your attention to the underperforming classes.
Only a few of us knew it buffed shields lol. Though some of us hoped it made smaller shields better but it didn't lol
It didn't. It was a nerf, through and through. Sorcs simply did what they're always told - they adapted. In this case, adapted to the resistance meta we have and which is not unique to sorcs or magicka.
And it didn't work! On a large scale, shields aren't more powerful than stamina defenses. It's the PET that pushed sorc over the threshold. And you want to punish non-pet sorcs as much as pet ones. Don't you see the problem here?
Again, just improve the lacking classes. This game certainly doesn't need more nerfs and even more boring combat.
Aren’t you the one who who crusaded for NB nerfs for like... forever?... And now that sorcs are right back at the top of the food chain it’s the “this game doesn’t need more nerfs” maneuver. Good one!10 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.
Its also the other way around. I feel the ceiling that a sorc can reach in top tier gameplay is limited due to class limitations
In the highest MMR bg's on our server, I would rather fight a team of pet sorcs rather than well top tier stam players
The mag sorc is bound to get shredded with a well timed burst combos as they need to face tank all the damage and dont synergize well with their team mates.
There is no shimerring shield, wings or cloak to avoid certain death and no cp has limited dodge roll capabilities for mag classes. The only thing which would have saved you was the 30k non crittable shield stack which no longer exist after shield nerfs
shields became stronger after the change to allow crits/resistance. Issue it there are not enough crit resistance in the game to handle the now 1.8-1.9 modifers floating around cyro.
Sorcs also have bound aegis for not only 8% more max mag adding to their shields, but having access to the same block mitigation, if not superior, to that of DK/warden builds running SNB.
Oh, come now. No one uses Bound Aegis unless absolutely trolling. Not slotted, and definitely not activated.
And I think blocking still doesn't mitigate damage done to shields?
yea you are right bound ageis is doo doo if you already have a 10k shield at 2300 cost lol.
its what happens after the shields (assuming there is still dmg left).
Shields against a basic typical cyro targetCRIT (1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 6981
6981 - 10k shield = 3018 shield left.
Total Mit = 100% (shield protected fully)
Higher tooltip dmg (though not many above 25k unless glass cannon):CRIT (1.415 MOD):
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 35,375 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
35,375 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 11636
11636 - 10k shield = 1636 dmg
Total Mit = 95.7178% on shield+armor+3300 crit resists
with block:
1636 dmg * (1-50/100) = 818 dmg with basic block
Total Mit = 97.859%
But of course the shield is only subtracting an attack each time and the value carries over. 2x 15k attacks:CRIT (1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 6981
6981 - 3018 shield left (from the first example) = 3963 dmg
Then is blocked:
3963 * (1-50/100) = 1981
Total Mit = 91.358% in this case
97%+ mitigation without heavy resists nor major protection is OVER-PERFORMING.
And if you compare the shield back when they protected against crits but armor was after the shield (using the higher tooltip so you can see the comparison of dmg hitting a sorc):CRIT (1.415 MOD):Total Mit = 93.548% on shield
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(no crits allowed under old formula) * (1+(8)/100) = 35,375 * (1.08)
35,375 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50) = 12,689.79075
Then shield subtracts:
12,689 - 10000 = * armor (0.917) = 2465
2465 dmg
Total Mit = 93.548% on shield
with block:
2465 * (1-50/100) = 1232with basic block
Total Mit with block included= 96.4821%
Conclusion:
shields over performing and need to adjust calculation and or sorc shield value to where they reduced dmg before mitigation.
93%/96% versus 95%/97% total mitigation.
I would recommend the following changes to shields calculated:
- decrease sorc shield so its below 10k to match other shields.
If you place something like a 5k shield in its place:CRIT (1.415 MOD):Total Mit = 85.1068 in this case which matches closer to relying on solely block mitigation and if you block it doesn't go into the mid 90%'s
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 8,223.70185
8,223.70185 - 4500 shield = 3,723 dmg
- or adjust the formula entirely (might help with lag):1st adjust the duration so you can cast it and it last like 18 seconds like it used to.
Then adjust the formula:
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(no crits allowed) * same vuln as live (1+(8-0)/100) = 35,375 * (1.08)
35,375 * (1.08) - 20000 (no battlespirit on shield values) = 18,205
18,205 *(.73) *(.91)*(no battlespirit mitigation allowed on attackers dmg) = 12,093.5815
Then armor and block are applied subtracts (non crit; crit and crit resistance can apply here if this dmg crits):
12,093.5815 * (0.917) = 11,089 dmg
Total Mit = 55.0321%
with block:
17180 * (1-50/100) = 8590 with basic block
Total Mit = 77.516%
Total Mit = 55.0321% without block
Total Mit = 77.516% with block
The second option would makes shield more like health and about protecting against burst instead of casting it like a buff and stacking so you ignore dmg; it also amkes it so classes with terrible 4k shields can get back the 10k shields they once had boosting their defense. First option is closer to the class audit they missed out on.
Block mitigation changes will need to be looked at as well. Only thing I can think of is removing the 0.5s cost for 1s and dropping the base mitigation to 25% from 50%. This way snb retains base block 50% and its only a slight nerf to DK pve tanks since we can assume the block mitigation stacking will be bringing them closer to pre-nerf levels:Current :
15000 dmg * base block 0.50 = 7500
15000 dmg * base block 0.50* other block mitigation ((1-(20snb + 10% DK+def Post 8)/100) = 15000 dmg * base block (0.50) * other block mitigation * (0.62) = 4,875
New changes:
15000 dmg * base block (.75) = 11,250
15000 dmg * base block (1-25/100)* other block mitigation ((1-(20snb + 10% DK+def Post 8)/100)
15000 dmg * base block (.75) instead of (.50) * other block mitigation ((1-(38)/100) = 6,975
Gosh, those are a lot of numbers just to say for you: "nerf shields!".
You're forgetting two things, heals and dodges. Shields are supposed to keep your health untouched. Because if they wouldn't, you needed a lot more heals. Sure, nerf them. But then give us magicka Vigor. Shields are quite bursty, but stamina gets additional dodgerolls to protect health 100% in a burst. Also helps avoid CCs and debuffs.
That mitigation calculation isn't a good argument. Just say that you want shields nerfed.
Dodge has cost increase mechanic and only can dodge direct instant cast. Shields do not.
You also can't compare shields to dodge because everyone can dodge roll, not everyone can shield unless they wear a certain armor.
Battlespirit and uncrit are great changes because it buffs lower shields while nerfing the strongest shield in the game.
Unless sorcs want to drop pets or speed lol
Stamina gets MORE dodgerolls than magicka, I said that. That's certainly an advantage.
That's fine because mag gets the shield access.
There's a way to nerf it 1v1 and make it better for versatile situations.
Doubt it. That was the idea behind the last rework already. Certain people were already licking their lips upon the thought of sorcs no longer wEarINg FuLl diVInes ANd tHreE daMAge SeTs. And... here we are, in full impen, with a defensive monster set. And those people still vent. If you can learn one thing from the forums of the last years, it's that people here will ALWAYS, ALWAYSALWAYSAAALLWAYYYS complain about sorcs, periodfullstopdot.
Just move your attention to the underperforming classes.
Only a few of us knew it buffed shields lol. Though some of us hoped it made smaller shields better but it didn't lol
It didn't. It was a nerf, through and through. Sorcs simply did what they're always told - they adapted. In this case, adapted to the resistance meta we have and which is not unique to sorcs or magicka.
And it didn't work! On a large scale, shields aren't more powerful than stamina defenses. It's the PET that pushed sorc over the threshold. And you want to punish non-pet sorcs as much as pet ones. Don't you see the problem here?
Again, just improve the lacking classes. This game certainly doesn't need more nerfs and even more boring combat.
Aren’t you the one who who crusaded for NB nerfs for like... forever?... And now that sorcs are right back at the top of the food chain it’s the “this game doesn’t need more nerfs” maneuver. Good one!
Wasn't it the same with nightblades? Nightblades have been trying to convince the forums for years about how "easily counterable" Cloak was, how "broken Shade", how "difficult the rotation" and how "overused air quotes" were. You shouldn't point fingers.
But more importantly, I've been fine with nightblades since they changed the Incap stun cost. If you actually read more carefully, you would've seen that I advocated for bringing the other classes up. Still do.
Just good to know the community is totally objective and doesn't hold any personal grudges that influence their arguments...
(-_-)1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.
Its also the other way around. I feel the ceiling that a sorc can reach in top tier gameplay is limited due to class limitations
In the highest MMR bg's on our server, I would rather fight a team of pet sorcs rather than well top tier stam players
The mag sorc is bound to get shredded with a well timed burst combos as they need to face tank all the damage and dont synergize well with their team mates.
There is no shimerring shield, wings or cloak to avoid certain death and no cp has limited dodge roll capabilities for mag classes. The only thing which would have saved you was the 30k non crittable shield stack which no longer exist after shield nerfs
shields became stronger after the change to allow crits/resistance. Issue it there are not enough crit resistance in the game to handle the now 1.8-1.9 modifers floating around cyro.
Sorcs also have bound aegis for not only 8% more max mag adding to their shields, but having access to the same block mitigation, if not superior, to that of DK/warden builds running SNB.
Oh, come now. No one uses Bound Aegis unless absolutely trolling. Not slotted, and definitely not activated.
And I think blocking still doesn't mitigate damage done to shields?
yea you are right bound ageis is doo doo if you already have a 10k shield at 2300 cost lol.
its what happens after the shields (assuming there is still dmg left).
Shields against a basic typical cyro targetCRIT (1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 6981
6981 - 10k shield = 3018 shield left.
Total Mit = 100% (shield protected fully)
Higher tooltip dmg (though not many above 25k unless glass cannon):CRIT (1.415 MOD):
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 35,375 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
35,375 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 11636
11636 - 10k shield = 1636 dmg
Total Mit = 95.7178% on shield+armor+3300 crit resists
with block:
1636 dmg * (1-50/100) = 818 dmg with basic block
Total Mit = 97.859%
But of course the shield is only subtracting an attack each time and the value carries over. 2x 15k attacks:CRIT (1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 6981
6981 - 3018 shield left (from the first example) = 3963 dmg
Then is blocked:
3963 * (1-50/100) = 1981
Total Mit = 91.358% in this case
97%+ mitigation without heavy resists nor major protection is OVER-PERFORMING.
And if you compare the shield back when they protected against crits but armor was after the shield (using the higher tooltip so you can see the comparison of dmg hitting a sorc):CRIT (1.415 MOD):Total Mit = 93.548% on shield
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(no crits allowed under old formula) * (1+(8)/100) = 35,375 * (1.08)
35,375 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50) = 12,689.79075
Then shield subtracts:
12,689 - 10000 = * armor (0.917) = 2465
2465 dmg
Total Mit = 93.548% on shield
with block:
2465 * (1-50/100) = 1232with basic block
Total Mit with block included= 96.4821%
Conclusion:
shields over performing and need to adjust calculation and or sorc shield value to where they reduced dmg before mitigation.
93%/96% versus 95%/97% total mitigation.
I would recommend the following changes to shields calculated:
- decrease sorc shield so its below 10k to match other shields.
If you place something like a 5k shield in its place:CRIT (1.415 MOD):Total Mit = 85.1068 in this case which matches closer to relying on solely block mitigation and if you block it doesn't go into the mid 90%'s
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 8,223.70185
8,223.70185 - 4500 shield = 3,723 dmg
- or adjust the formula entirely (might help with lag):1st adjust the duration so you can cast it and it last like 18 seconds like it used to.
Then adjust the formula:
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(no crits allowed) * same vuln as live (1+(8-0)/100) = 35,375 * (1.08)
35,375 * (1.08) - 20000 (no battlespirit on shield values) = 18,205
18,205 *(.73) *(.91)*(no battlespirit mitigation allowed on attackers dmg) = 12,093.5815
Then armor and block are applied subtracts (non crit; crit and crit resistance can apply here if this dmg crits):
12,093.5815 * (0.917) = 11,089 dmg
Total Mit = 55.0321%
with block:
17180 * (1-50/100) = 8590 with basic block
Total Mit = 77.516%
Total Mit = 55.0321% without block
Total Mit = 77.516% with block
The second option would makes shield more like health and about protecting against burst instead of casting it like a buff and stacking so you ignore dmg; it also amkes it so classes with terrible 4k shields can get back the 10k shields they once had boosting their defense. First option is closer to the class audit they missed out on.
Block mitigation changes will need to be looked at as well. Only thing I can think of is removing the 0.5s cost for 1s and dropping the base mitigation to 25% from 50%. This way snb retains base block 50% and its only a slight nerf to DK pve tanks since we can assume the block mitigation stacking will be bringing them closer to pre-nerf levels:Current :
15000 dmg * base block 0.50 = 7500
15000 dmg * base block 0.50* other block mitigation ((1-(20snb + 10% DK+def Post 8)/100) = 15000 dmg * base block (0.50) * other block mitigation * (0.62) = 4,875
New changes:
15000 dmg * base block (.75) = 11,250
15000 dmg * base block (1-25/100)* other block mitigation ((1-(20snb + 10% DK+def Post 8)/100)
15000 dmg * base block (.75) instead of (.50) * other block mitigation ((1-(38)/100) = 6,975
Gosh, those are a lot of numbers just to say for you: "nerf shields!".
You're forgetting two things, heals and dodges. Shields are supposed to keep your health untouched. Because if they wouldn't, you needed a lot more heals. Sure, nerf them. But then give us magicka Vigor. Shields are quite bursty, but stamina gets additional dodgerolls to protect health 100% in a burst. Also helps avoid CCs and debuffs.
That mitigation calculation isn't a good argument. Just say that you want shields nerfed.
Dodge has cost increase mechanic and only can dodge direct instant cast. Shields do not.
You also can't compare shields to dodge because everyone can dodge roll, not everyone can shield unless they wear a certain armor.
Battlespirit and uncrit are great changes because it buffs lower shields while nerfing the strongest shield in the game.
Unless sorcs want to drop pets or speed lol
Stamina gets MORE dodgerolls than magicka, I said that. That's certainly an advantage.
That's fine because mag gets the shield access.
There's a way to nerf it 1v1 and make it better for versatile situations.
Doubt it. That was the idea behind the last rework already. Certain people were already licking their lips upon the thought of sorcs no longer wEarINg FuLl diVInes ANd tHreE daMAge SeTs. And... here we are, in full impen, with a defensive monster set. And those people still vent. If you can learn one thing from the forums of the last years, it's that people here will ALWAYS, ALWAYSALWAYSAAALLWAYYYS complain about sorcs, periodfullstopdot.
Just move your attention to the underperforming classes.
Only a few of us knew it buffed shields lol. Though some of us hoped it made smaller shields better but it didn't lol
You are really biasied about sorc.
Shields got buffed because sorcs sacrifise damage for resists. This is a trade between damage and tankiness.
Harness magicka by it self and the stacking with hardened is a problem, nerfing shields in general or nerfing Hardened ward is not a solution at all.
Sorc lost DMG? Lol I'm fighting against the wrong sorcs then lolMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual3 -
MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nirnroot420 wrote: »@MaxJrFTW
I get getting frustrated about a particular class or build that's wrecking you. Just learn from the mistakes and get better.
Templars, in particular, have been buffed this patch to handle magsorcs. The improvements to gap closers mean that a purifying/vamp bane/toppling charge/sweeps/crescent combo puts most magsorcs down (high or low MMR) in seconds. If they survivve it, block heal until their burst passes and do it again, but better this time.
Magsorcs are hit hard by CCs since shields are so essential to their survivability, and they obviously can't cast it while under CC. They also can't take sustained melee pressure and streaking away hits their resources while your gap closers are likely cheaper.
Calling magsorcs who disagree with you "average" or "weak" (especially in addressing @PhoenixGrey in these terms) betrays your saltiness.
I'm not serious, just messing around. I use to play WoW on a server called Bleeding Hollow, BH forums were known for banter and trash talking. I guess old habits die hard, but i was kidding.
In fact i don't even PvP anymore. Last time i did any sort of pvp was may 17th. Actually not true, i did queue a bg with my nb a couple of weeks ago. Overall i've spent less than 15 mins pvping over the last 5 weeks.
It's also a fact that sorcs are op and these guys for whatever reason don't want to admit it.Edited by MaxJrFTW on June 23, 2019 12:30PM"I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 4331 -
GhostofDatthaw✭✭✭✭✭Nirnroot420 wrote: »@MaxJrFTW
I get getting frustrated about a particular class or build that's wrecking you. Just learn from the mistakes and get better.
Templars, in particular, have been buffed this patch to handle magsorcs. The improvements to gap closers mean that a purifying/vamp bane/toppling charge/sweeps/crescent combo puts most magsorcs down (high or low MMR) in seconds. If they survivve it, block heal until their burst passes and do it again, but better this time.
Magsorcs are hit hard by CCs since shields are so essential to their survivability, and they obviously can't cast it while under CC. They also can't take sustained melee pressure and streaking away hits their resources while your gap closers are likely cheaper.
Calling magsorcs who disagree with you "average" or "weak" (especially in addressing @PhoenixGrey in these terms) betrays your saltiness.
I'm not serious, just messing around. I use to play WoW on a server called Bleeding Hollow, BH forums were known for banter and trash talking. I guess old habits die hard, but i was kidding.
In fact i don't even PvP anymore. Last time i did any sort of pvp was may 17th. Actually not true, i did queue a bg with my nb a couple of weeks ago. Overall i've spent less than 15 mins pvping over the last 5 weeks.
It's also a fact that sorcs are op and these guys for whatever reason don't want to admit it.
Because admitting something is strong leads for nerfs...
But
Zos has "nerfed" sorcs a couple times but they always seem to get stronger xD1 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭I watched someone stream yesterday getting hit by 12k ticks from overload heavy attacks, skilled play...
And people wonder why PvP is dead in this game.Edited by Sylosi on June 23, 2019 12:58PM3 -
RighteousBacon✭✭✭✭It’s important to note that without running a pet, mag sorc gets a whole lot weaker for most people.
I personally believe that the skill ceiling for non-pet using sorcs is higher than pet using sorcs; however, the skill floor is higher for pet sorc rather than non-pet.
This is what I think has led to the “recent” (all though there has always been) sorc outrage.
Most importantly, magsorc has some of the best potential to burst players who aren’t expecting to be bursted. This leads to a lot of crying on the forums when people get absolutely obliterated by a magsorc after chasing the sorc for ages just pounding on their shields.
I truly think that the biggest reason mag sorc receives the most outrage from players is because they have the most pub-stomp potential.1 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭oxygen_thief wrote: »
I think your time might be better spent getting someone to teach you to read, the clue should have been in "I watched someone stream...".Edited by Sylosi on June 23, 2019 1:24PM2 -
oxygen_thief✭✭✭✭✭
✭oxygen_thief wrote: »
I think your time might be better spent getting someone to teach you to read, the clue should have been in "I watched someone stream...".
i can teach him too and why would you watch such a player?1 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭oxygen_thief wrote: »oxygen_thief wrote: »
I think your time might be better spent getting someone to teach you to read, the clue should have been in "I watched someone stream...".
i can teach him too and why would you watch such a player?
If the standard of "block or dodge" is anything to go by then I doubt you could teach anyone very much.
As for why I was watching, I don't have the game installed and was considering trying it again so I watched a few streams to see the state of PvP, 'was' being the operative word given two streamers basically rage quit because of performance issues.
This may come as a shock but if I wanted to watch skilled PvP players then I wouldn't be watching ESO fullstop, the PvP is not very skilled and is not worth watching for that.
Edited by Sylosi on June 23, 2019 3:13PM0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread in a nutshell:- Sorcs are overpowered!
- Sorcs are fine.
- EmMa OvErLoAd Is A MeMe
#CAREBEARMASTERRACE4 - Sorcs are overpowered!
-
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mag sorc is the best magic class, but not as good as any of the stam classes, IMO.
I laughed when the shield crit nerf went in. Shields not being critable, and not having armor rating mean't they took 100% of the damage. Now they can take up to @160% but also mitigate up to 50% of the damage.GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Nirnroot420 wrote: »@MaxJrFTW
I get getting frustrated about a particular class or build that's wrecking you. Just learn from the mistakes and get better.
Templars, in particular, have been buffed this patch to handle magsorcs. The improvements to gap closers mean that a purifying/vamp bane/toppling charge/sweeps/crescent combo puts most magsorcs down (high or low MMR) in seconds. If they survivve it, block heal until their burst passes and do it again, but better this time.
Magsorcs are hit hard by CCs since shields are so essential to their survivability, and they obviously can't cast it while under CC. They also can't take sustained melee pressure and streaking away hits their resources while your gap closers are likely cheaper.
Calling magsorcs who disagree with you "average" or "weak" (especially in addressing @PhoenixGrey in these terms) betrays your saltiness.
I'm not serious, just messing around. I use to play WoW on a server called Bleeding Hollow, BH forums were known for banter and trash talking. I guess old habits die hard, but i was kidding.
In fact i don't even PvP anymore. Last time i did any sort of pvp was may 17th. Actually not true, i did queue a bg with my nb a couple of weeks ago. Overall i've spent less than 15 mins pvping over the last 5 weeks.
It's also a fact that sorcs are op and these guys for whatever reason don't want to admit it.
Because admitting something is strong leads for nerfs...
But
Zos has "nerfed" sorcs a couple times but they always seem to get stronger xD
Because what people think makes sorc's strong and want nerfed is wrong. The same mechanic makes mag sorc's, stamden, and stamblades strong in pvp.
2 -
ShadowProc✭✭✭✭✭I watched that too. That sorc is using something that is broken. I did some testing and I can’t come close to those numbers. He was literally one shotting him with heavy attack overload.Edited by ShadowProc on June 24, 2019 2:39AM1
-
Killset✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
Bad sorcs may be easy to kill, but a bad sorc is more dangerous than say a bad Stamplar because the latter require more experience and thought to play effectively.
Its also the other way around. I feel the ceiling that a sorc can reach in top tier gameplay is limited due to class limitations
In the highest MMR bg's on our server, I would rather fight a team of pet sorcs rather than well top tier stam players
The mag sorc is bound to get shredded with a well timed burst combos as they need to face tank all the damage and dont synergize well with their team mates.
There is no shimerring shield, wings or cloak to avoid certain death and no cp has limited dodge roll capabilities for mag classes. The only thing which would have saved you was the 30k non crittable shield stack which no longer exist after shield nerfs
shields became stronger after the change to allow crits/resistance. Issue it there are not enough crit resistance in the game to handle the now 1.8-1.9 modifers floating around cyro.
Sorcs also have bound aegis for not only 8% more max mag adding to their shields, but having access to the same block mitigation, if not superior, to that of DK/warden builds running SNB.
Oh, come now. No one uses Bound Aegis unless absolutely trolling. Not slotted, and definitely not activated.
And I think blocking still doesn't mitigate damage done to shields?
yea you are right bound ageis is doo doo if you already have a 10k shield at 2300 cost lol.
its what happens after the shields (assuming there is still dmg left).
Shields against a basic typical cyro targetCRIT (1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 6981
6981 - 10k shield = 3018 shield left.
Total Mit = 100% (shield protected fully)
Higher tooltip dmg (though not many above 25k unless glass cannon):CRIT (1.415 MOD):
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 35,375 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
35,375 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 11636
11636 - 10k shield = 1636 dmg
Total Mit = 95.7178% on shield+armor+3300 crit resists
with block:
1636 dmg * (1-50/100) = 818 dmg with basic block
Total Mit = 97.859%
But of course the shield is only subtracting an attack each time and the value carries over. 2x 15k attacks:CRIT (1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 6981
6981 - 3018 shield left (from the first example) = 3963 dmg
Then is blocked:
3963 * (1-50/100) = 1981
Total Mit = 91.358% in this case
97%+ mitigation without heavy resists nor major protection is OVER-PERFORMING.
And if you compare the shield back when they protected against crits but armor was after the shield (using the higher tooltip so you can see the comparison of dmg hitting a sorc):CRIT (1.415 MOD):Total Mit = 93.548% on shield
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(no crits allowed under old formula) * (1+(8)/100) = 35,375 * (1.08)
35,375 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50) = 12,689.79075
Then shield subtracts:
12,689 - 10000 = * armor (0.917) = 2465
2465 dmg
Total Mit = 93.548% on shield
with block:
2465 * (1-50/100) = 1232with basic block
Total Mit with block included= 96.4821%
Conclusion:
shields over performing and need to adjust calculation and or sorc shield value to where they reduced dmg before mitigation.
93%/96% versus 95%/97% total mitigation.
I would recommend the following changes to shields calculated:
- decrease sorc shield so its below 10k to match other shields.
If you place something like a 5k shield in its place:CRIT (1.415 MOD):Total Mit = 85.1068 in this case which matches closer to relying on solely block mitigation and if you block it doesn't go into the mid 90%'s
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-0)/100) = 21225 * 1.08 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21225 * (1.08)*(.73) *(.91)*(0.50)*(0.917) = 8,223.70185
8,223.70185 - 4500 shield = 3,723 dmg
- or adjust the formula entirely (might help with lag):1st adjust the duration so you can cast it and it last like 18 seconds like it used to.
Then adjust the formula:
25000 *(1-(0)/100)*(no crits allowed) * same vuln as live (1+(8-0)/100) = 35,375 * (1.08)
35,375 * (1.08) - 20000 (no battlespirit on shield values) = 18,205
18,205 *(.73) *(.91)*(no battlespirit mitigation allowed on attackers dmg) = 12,093.5815
Then armor and block are applied subtracts (non crit; crit and crit resistance can apply here if this dmg crits):
12,093.5815 * (0.917) = 11,089 dmg
Total Mit = 55.0321%
with block:
17180 * (1-50/100) = 8590 with basic block
Total Mit = 77.516%
Total Mit = 55.0321% without block
Total Mit = 77.516% with block
The second option would makes shield more like health and about protecting against burst instead of casting it like a buff and stacking so you ignore dmg; it also amkes it so classes with terrible 4k shields can get back the 10k shields they once had boosting their defense. First option is closer to the class audit they missed out on.
Block mitigation changes will need to be looked at as well. Only thing I can think of is removing the 0.5s cost for 1s and dropping the base mitigation to 25% from 50%. This way snb retains base block 50% and its only a slight nerf to DK pve tanks since we can assume the block mitigation stacking will be bringing them closer to pre-nerf levels:Current :
15000 dmg * base block 0.50 = 7500
15000 dmg * base block 0.50* other block mitigation ((1-(20snb + 10% DK+def Post 8)/100) = 15000 dmg * base block (0.50) * other block mitigation * (0.62) = 4,875
New changes:
15000 dmg * base block (.75) = 11,250
15000 dmg * base block (1-25/100)* other block mitigation ((1-(20snb + 10% DK+def Post 8)/100)
15000 dmg * base block (.75) instead of (.50) * other block mitigation ((1-(38)/100) = 6,975
Gosh, those are a lot of numbers just to say for you: "nerf shields!".
You're forgetting two things, heals and dodges. Shields are supposed to keep your health untouched. Because if they wouldn't, you needed a lot more heals. Sure, nerf them. But then give us magicka Vigor. Shields are quite bursty, but stamina gets additional dodgerolls to protect health 100% in a burst. Also helps avoid CCs and debuffs.
That mitigation calculation isn't a good argument. Just say that you want shields nerfed.
Dodge has cost increase mechanic and only can dodge direct instant cast. Shields do not.
You also can't compare shields to dodge because everyone can dodge roll, not everyone can shield unless they wear a certain armor.
Battlespirit and uncrit are great changes because it buffs lower shields while nerfing the strongest shield in the game.
Unless sorcs want to drop pets or speed lol
Stamina gets MORE dodgerolls than magicka, I said that. That's certainly an advantage.
That's fine because mag gets the shield access.
There's a way to nerf it 1v1 and make it better for versatile situations.
Doubt it. That was the idea behind the last rework already. Certain people were already licking their lips upon the thought of sorcs no longer wEarINg FuLl diVInes ANd tHreE daMAge SeTs. And... here we are, in full impen, with a defensive monster set. And those people still vent. If you can learn one thing from the forums of the last years, it's that people here will ALWAYS, ALWAYSALWAYSAAALLWAYYYS complain about sorcs, periodfullstopdot.
Just move your attention to the underperforming classes.
Only a few of us knew it buffed shields lol. Though some of us hoped it made smaller shields better but it didn't lol
It didn't. It was a nerf, through and through. Sorcs simply did what they're always told - they adapted. In this case, adapted to the resistance meta we have and which is not unique to sorcs or magicka.
And it didn't work! On a large scale, shields aren't more powerful than stamina defenses. It's the PET that pushed sorc over the threshold. And you want to punish non-pet sorcs as much as pet ones. Don't you see the problem here?
Again, just improve the lacking classes. This game certainly doesn't need more nerfs and even more boring combat.
Aren’t you the one who who crusaded for NB nerfs for like... forever?... And now that sorcs are right back at the top of the food chain it’s the “this game doesn’t need more nerfs” maneuver. Good one!
Wasn't it the same with nightblades? Nightblades have been trying to convince the forums for years about how "easily counterable" Cloak was, how "broken Shade", how "difficult the rotation" and how "overused air quotes" were. You shouldn't point fingers.
But more importantly, I've been fine with nightblades since they changed the Incap stun cost. If you actually read more carefully, you would've seen that I advocated for bringing the other classes up. Still do.
Just good to know the community is totally objective and doesn't hold any personal grudges that influence their arguments...
(-_-)
Sure thing bud.3 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don’t know, I’m starting to think sorcs aren’t really OP. Only issue I have is their burst is a little over the top.
Targetable pets and passive damage in exchange for consuming two skill slots seems okay too. It’s good, but good =/ OP. Ward’s fine as is too.Edited by Iskiab on June 23, 2019 6:05PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭I don’t know, I’m starting to think sorcs aren’t really OP. Only issue I have is their burst is a little over the top.
Targetable pets and passive damage in exchange for consuming two skill slots seems okay too. It’s good, but good =/ OP. Ward’s fine as is too.
It's more too much in small-group and solo open world. Not really as great the more organized you and your competition are. Most of the hate comes from how annoying it is to fight magsorcs open world. TBH if you're a magsorc and you're not kiting in your pets in open world then you're intentionally hamstringing yourself. Not that kiting in your pets takes amazing levels of skill as a general rule.1 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nirnroot420 wrote: »@MaxJrFTW
I get getting frustrated about a particular class or build that's wrecking you. Just learn from the mistakes and get better.
Templars, in particular, have been buffed this patch to handle magsorcs. The improvements to gap closers mean that a purifying/vamp bane/toppling charge/sweeps/crescent combo puts most magsorcs down (high or low MMR) in seconds. If they survivve it, block heal until their burst passes and do it again, but better this time.
Magsorcs are hit hard by CCs since shields are so essential to their survivability, and they obviously can't cast it while under CC. They also can't take sustained melee pressure and streaking away hits their resources while your gap closers are likely cheaper.
Calling magsorcs who disagree with you "average" or "weak" (especially in addressing @PhoenixGrey in these terms) betrays your saltiness.
I'm not serious, just messing around. I use to play WoW on a server called Bleeding Hollow, BH forums were known for banter and trash talking. I guess old habits die hard, but i was kidding.
In fact i don't even PvP anymore. Last time i did any sort of pvp was may 17th. Actually not true, i did queue a bg with my nb a couple of weeks ago. Overall i've spent less than 15 mins pvping over the last 5 weeks.
It's also a fact that sorcs are op and these guys for whatever reason don't want to admit it.
Serious or not, screaming OP and calling someone bad sounds like a typical potato1 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭Don't like sorcs - roll necro, turn into huge pile of bones and bash them a few times. If anything is brokengly op in the game right now - it's those guys, not sorcs.Edited by Witar on June 24, 2019 4:43AMIt cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.3 -
MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mag sorc is the best magic class, but not as good as any of the stam classes, IMO.
Best 1vx class = magsorc
Best bg class = magsorc/magden
Best small scale = stamden
Best dueling class(everything allowed) = magsorc
In fact when it comes to dueling magicka utterly dominates stamina.
"I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 4335 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Don't like sorcs - roll necro, turn into huge pile of bones and bash them a few times. If anything is brokengly op in the game right now - it's those guys, not sorcs.
One build because of one skill which can easily be fixed. It's not Necromancer, it's just one morph of one Ultimate. Sorcs have... way more than that.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -5
