The "Balance" of Mag Sorcs

Icarus42

I take it that the quotation marks around the word balanced are meant to be sarcastic right? So are you talking about nerfing pet sorc or all sorcs in general to achieve this "balance" of which you speak?

Interesting, wish I had a link to the list of nerfs sorc has received since morrowind dlc, but it has been quite few.. Well lets think of a few more shall we?

First just go ahead and delete pets. This will be the crippling blow to the sorcs evil empire and will inject that much needed humility that they have been lacking as of late. While you are at it add a cast time to shields and make curse dodgeable and blockable, also make crystal frags hard cast only. Oh and while you are at it increase the streak recast under 4 secs to 100%. Crit surge forget about that heal tick get rid of that too, and nerf boundless major expedition to 1 second. Also while you are it bright throat and shacklebreaker are also associated with sorcs so nerf those please.

Come lets get creative guys I know there are a few more you can think of to make this class more, "balanced."

mursie

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Your idea of balance sounds like you want to nerf the *** out of classes to make them viable only to zerglings which is why most zergs are mag heavy. How does class, skill or gear even matter to ppl running in zergs ? Why on earth will someone spend time or resources to balance things around that *** which is barely even watchable let alone playable.

I honestly have no idea what you are even saying here. We're discussing ONE class. extremely overtuned. i have explained the full kit and why in totality, it is overtuned. I have literally shown via the responses of a clown, how it would take multiple other classes to come to the same success and toolkit of the one mag sorc.

Your comments on nerfing all classes are baseless. your comments on zerglings being mag heavy are non sequitur. Your comments about balancing are hyperbole.

the sole focus, purpose, point, and reason for my post in this thread was to call out the mag sorc delusionals that sit here and defend their over-tuned class with complete blissful ignorance.

It pains me that i find you among them.

Gilvoth

give us back the shield breaker set

mursie

Kel wrote: »

https://youtu.be/tpHD2aVEj6A

20:25 of the video.

Mag sorc rated #1 in PvP. You can see his reasons why.

well said jack. well said.

Strider__Roshin

I'm surprised they weren't nerf this update honestly.

Aedaryl

Daus wrote: »

I'm surprised they weren't nerf this update honestly.

You didn't read the patch notes.

Hardened ward took a 20% shield reduction

Pets got their shield capped at 50% of their max HP

Pets took 50% less healing

Matriarch, scamp and cheesy pets monster set/5 pieces set deal 15% less damage when using deadric prey.

Sorcerer got nerfed, people was just too much cared about NB and Necro to notice it.

MirkoZ

As main magsorc I think pets are op and they need a nerf , but the rest is quite balanced rn.

Alienoutlaw

i love threads like this, everything is cool when it X class on top but when Y class finally has an answer you run crying to the Dev's. Sorcs have been nerfed more than any class in the game yet we always find away to adapt.........try doing the same

Alienoutlaw

and an FYI Sorcs are not the only class to have LOS interference

Warden has Wild Guardian
Werewolves have Pack Leader
so nerf them Also?

Sanguinor2

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

i love threads like this, everything is cool when it X class on top but when Y class finally has an answer you run crying to the Dev's. Sorcs have been nerfed more than any class in the game yet we always find away to adapt.........try doing the same

Not too sure About that one, rather confident that other classes have gotten more nerfs and for sure more impactful nerfs, just look at magblades if you want to see some nerfs that actually nerfed a class hard.

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

and an FYI Sorcs are not the only class to have LOS interference
NB has Dark Shade
Warden has Wild Guardian
Werewolves have Pack Leader
so nerf them Also?

friendly advice: edit out the dark shade, it actually doesnt give LOS because it is not targetable.

Strider__Roshin

Aedaryl wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

I'm surprised they weren't nerf this update honestly.

You didn't read the patch notes.

Hardened ward took a 20% shield reduction

Pets got their shield capped at 50% of their max HP

Pets took 50% less healing

Matriarch, scamp and cheesy pets monster set/5 pieces set deal 15% less damage when using deadric prey.

Sorcerer got nerfed, people was just too much cared about NB and Necro to notice it.

Almost everything you listed were bug fixes.

wheem_ESO

mursie wrote: »

the sole focus, purpose, point, and reason for my post in this thread was to call out the mag sorc delusionals that sit here and defend their over-tuned class with complete blissful ignorance.

I think you're underestimating the power of Mag DK and Stamina builds.

One thing that Mag Sorcs have going for them is that they're a strong class in pretty much any kind of PvP: soloing, small groups, large groups, organized groups, disorganized groups - all of it. Mag DK can't exactly say the same, since it doesn't have anywhere near the mobility of a Mag Sorc, but in cases where the importance of that mobility is minimized, Mag DK is incredibly powerful right now, and there's not a huge gap between the two. There is, however, a decent gap between Sorc/DK and the other Magicka classes (for offensive or soloing roles, anyway).

Pretty much all Stam classes deserve to be counted as not-that-far behind Mag Sorcs as well, with some perhaps even being superior in certain situations.

master_vanargand

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Says the one who is corroborating with other potatoes respawning in this thread and calling me delusional lol !

Even if mag sorc is as strong as you claim, I really dont understand what's the problem with having strong classes in the game.
I am sure it's not fun even for a streamer to get repeatedly zerged down by premade zerglings in BG's or small scale stam groups in open world pvp.

I believe in balance phoenix. equitable balance. it's why i play no-cp. it's why i do not use bash necro despite mostly playing stamcro the past few weeks. it's why i don't stack the deck with premades to stomp pugs..

the magsorc is extremely overtuned at the moment. the only people that object to this statement are infact magsorcs such as yourself.

maybe try participating in a no-cp pvp environment on something not extremely overtuned for a change. give yourself a little perspective. you need it, because right now you're completely delusional

I too believe in balance. What I dont believe is balance purely based on numbers or for players with L2P issues which make up majority of these potato threads.

I used to play a lot on my magden when I started pvp'ing back in morrowind. Was a time when it was actually viable as a full damage spec and had almost as much burst potential as a mag sorc with better defence due to its ult gen and ultimates when played right.
If I had played the game at launch I would have played Dk.

Your idea of balance sounds like you want to nerf the *** out of classes to make them viable only to zerglings which is why most zergs are mag heavy. How does class, skill or gear even matter to ppl running in zergs ? Why on earth will someone spend time or resources to balance things around that *** which is barely even watchable let alone playable.

"L2P" is magic word.
If you say "L2P" you will feel of win.
But I think "L2P" is same "I'm stupid".

stritzi

Aedaryl wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Sorc is in a good position, but claiming it's better at everything is clearly misinformation.

weird. i read your post and every bullet point I wrote had the following response from you: "yeah it's strong/best but..."

yet somehow it's misinformation.

when you remove your head from your ass and use your eyeballs for their intended purpose.. perhaps your inability to clearly see what is common sense to others will be lifted.

here's hoping.

Keep insult me, that's proove you have no argmument left.

Good is different than best.

That's why a stam DK, for exemple, can kill a magsorc.

Lel, take two equally good players and the sorc will allways win

stritzi

Aedaryl wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Keep insult me, that's proove you have no argmument left.

Good is different than best.

That's why a stam DK, for exemple, can kill a magsorc.

ok - so from your responses i just need to roll the class that has the mobility of a nightblade, the survivability of a stamdk, the healing of magplar, the burst of stam 2h, the pressure of a dot bleed build and the LOS blocking of an unkillable stone pillar.

after fully evaluating the list above, I've come to the logical conclusion that only a magsorc adequately allows me to check most if not all of those boxes. all other classes would have deficiencies one one area or the other.

thanks for lifting the fog.

You just didn't read. You use words that wasn't in my mounth to make your's sounds better.

It's funny to go with the straw man fallacy :

"A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."

The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition."


Stam dk have better survivability than a magsorc.
Sorc is not even close to templar healing (magdk is)
2h burst has no sense, there is nothing weaker than a 2h burst. S&B deal more damage. And DBoS/leap + execute is not burst from 2h.
Dot bleed build have more pressure than matriarch
And I just explained you that matriarch is easy to kill.

Bruh iam not a whiny one, playing sorc my self a little, but the bolded passage is bold nonsense..

Arzharo

Anyone who says magsorcs are balanced are either a delusional magsorc main or a moron and that's fact. No amount of "L2P OMEGALULW" will change that. They're not just op, they're straight up BROKEN right now.

Lord-Otto

Daus wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

I'm surprised they weren't nerf this update honestly.

You didn't read the patch notes.

Hardened ward took a 20% shield reduction

Pets got their shield capped at 50% of their max HP

Pets took 50% less healing

Matriarch, scamp and cheesy pets monster set/5 pieces set deal 15% less damage when using deadric prey.

Sorcerer got nerfed, people was just too much cared about NB and Necro to notice it.

Almost everything you listed were bug fixes.

Doesn't matter. Sorcs were made weaker this patch, intentions aside. Can't argue that.
If it's enough, that's the debate.

And for everyone else here, I wanna ask where that "L2P, adapt" attitude has gone that us sorcs have heard so often in the past. Not nice to be on the receiving end and then being thrown this crab into your face, is it?
And stamina players can pipe down as a whole. Only exception stamsorc. You know you've been OP since Dark Brotherhood.

pieratsos

KurtAngle2 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

KurtAngle2 wrote: »

gepe87 wrote: »

Streak nerfed - Magsorc adapted
Frag nerfed - Magsorc adapted
Shields nerfed - Magsorc adapted
Healing Ward nerfed - Magsorc adapted

Whats your problem now?

Shields weren't really nerfed and the magsorcer got his pet ENORMOUSLY buffed to the point that they do *** of dps and healings whilst messing with targeting. All of this whilst maintaining great dps and best execute in the game

The execute that got a Nerf right? Unsure if you played in 2018 but sorcs were in a sorry state after frag Nerf. A small crappy window of rune cage OP aside and yet people still moaned.

Folks will always moan about sorcs. It's a thing, mainly for players not good enough to counter them. Regardless of how good or bad they are - wards were nerfed, people wanted then to Crit, and look what happened? Sorcs adapted and now run impen and able are less squishy with wards down.

At this point, keep the complaints coming. It's comical as no matter what gets nerfed it will keep coming. Sorcs are in a better place now that's do sho but mainly as people.moaned about stuff, it got changed and they adapted.

And before that Sorcs had a 40 meters undodgeable/unblockable stun followed up by *** of upfront damage so that means NOTHING.
Sorcs toolkit was always overloaded like Nightblade's but ZoS only now decided to give a *** about it. (reworking/nerfing Nightblade). Sorcs mechanics are completely stupid and should have been changed long time ago like Reflective Scales (Which 100% countered any ranged projectile class) but since they didn't touch ANY of broken Sorc skills (broken in terms of Design) we're stuck now with a boring class that outperforms any other magicka class in the game and rivals Stamina in terms of mobility and cancer gameplay

This is about pet sorcs right? Just to be clear

LoreToo

To everyone, who says that sorcs are OP, and need more nerfs:
1. L2P, sorc are totaly balanced
2. Uh, i misses my 1.5 when i need only 3 skills on bar: frags-pulse-fury. Now i need to press more skills, i think sorcs got nerfed too much

cHIIMEERa

Im blown away over the amount of people that claims that winged twilight isnt overperforming in here.

Shame on you..

Trancestor

Make pets not worth running in pvp, make them easily killable and make the cast time to summon them much longer, leave them unkillable in pve. Magsorcs without pets will still be one of if not the strongest pvp class and other players wont have to suffer the zoo anymore.

Kadoin

Blame Alfiq. ZOS should have seen broken builds coming with that set being introduced.

Aedaryl

Trancestor wrote: »

Make pets not worth running in pvp, make them easily killable and make the cast time to summon them much longer, leave them unkillable in pve. Magsorcs without pets will still be one of if not the strongest pvp class and other players wont have to suffer the zoo anymore.

SO you want to complely shut down an entire skill line thematic because you don't like it ?

Seems so smart and balanced.

Kadoin

Aedaryl wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Make pets not worth running in pvp, make them easily killable and make the cast time to summon them much longer, leave them unkillable in pve. Magsorcs without pets will still be one of if not the strongest pvp class and other players wont have to suffer the zoo anymore.

SO you want to complely shut down an entire skill line thematic because you don't like it ?

Seems so smart and balanced.

Come on, you know that balance on this forum always means: whatever makes life easier for me, and harder for you! I can't feel pro enough if I don't crush people by looking at them!

cHIIMEERa

Also, why isnt there a hardlock target button on console? (PC has had one since 2014).

Would have made my life easier when battling the zookeepers.

Sharee

cHIIMEERa wrote: »

Also, why isnt there a hardlock target button on console? (PC has had one since 2014).

Would have made my life easier when battling the zookeepers.

You can tab target an enemy on PC, but it really does not do anything other than put a white outline on him - the targeting still goes to whatever is on front of you, not whatever you have targeted.

cHIIMEERa

Sharee wrote: »

cHIIMEERa wrote: »

Also, why isnt there a hardlock target button on console? (PC has had one since 2014).

Would have made my life easier when battling the zookeepers.

You can tab target an enemy on PC, but it really does not do anything other than put a white outline on him - the targeting still goes to whatever is on front of you, not whatever you have targeted.

Oh, i played ESO on pc from 2014-2015 and remembered it as a hardlock,

HARDLOCK for both PC and Consoles then!

Trancestor

Aedaryl wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Make pets not worth running in pvp, make them easily killable and make the cast time to summon them much longer, leave them unkillable in pve. Magsorcs without pets will still be one of if not the strongest pvp class and other players wont have to suffer the zoo anymore.

SO you want to complely shut down an entire skill line thematic because you don't like it ?

Seems so smart and balanced.

Well no one likes pets not even good magsorcs who dont want to rely on cheese. They mess with targetting, they require no thought or skill to use, they are op and impossible to balance without hurting the players who want easy mode in pve and they're just a nuisance overall.
Removing them from pvp would be for the greater good and nobody cares about butthurt petsorc feelings.

Sanguinor2

LoreToo wrote: »

To everyone, who says that sorcs are OP, and need more nerfs:
1. L2P, sorc are totaly balanced
2. Uh, i misses my 1.5 when i need only 3 skills on bar: frags-pulse-fury. Now i need to press more skills, i think sorcs got nerfed too much

You can have your 1.5 sorc if I get my 1.5 magdk back, hf with infinite projectiles and ults reflected I guess^^.

Strider__Roshin

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

LoreToo wrote: »

To everyone, who says that sorcs are OP, and need more nerfs:
1. L2P, sorc are totaly balanced
2. Uh, i misses my 1.5 when i need only 3 skills on bar: frags-pulse-fury. Now i need to press more skills, i think sorcs got nerfed too much

You can have your 1.5 sorc if I get my 1.5 magdk back, hf with infinite projectiles and ults reflected I guess^^.

Do you not play your own class? Your whip is so broken right now