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The "Balance" of Mag Sorcs
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ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorcs are a joke now. Shields are gone, rune cage is like an advanced math question, and on top let's nerf clench. Why would anyone make one when they KNOW they're getting nerfed next patch, and the next one, and the next one, and....0 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yea I gathered as much when reading your posts. You want easy mode. Because that's what the game was back then. Easy mode and insanely imbalanced.PhoenixGrey wrote: »
Then please give DKs back permareflect from wings, give templar BoL back that burst heals 3 targets with major mending from ritual, give NB back 50 ult incap with defile and stun with purge on dark cloak.... I sometimes get the feeling some of you just want to have everything available to you. Just like the ridiculous nonsense that it is "unfair" how pirate skeleton doesn't proc through shields.PhoenixGrey wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »It's really just the pets & streak.
The pets should function much more closely to necro pets instead of being this persistant summon doing constant damage and taking 5% AOE damage.
Streak needs to have the cost dramatically lowered and have charges. 1 charge per 10 seconds instead of the scaling cost. Hitting 3 or more targets should provide a charge back. Gives solo 1vX Sorc much more space to work with while putting Streak runners into the ground and punishing them for outright running.
Other than some tweaking to Master's Destro, I don't really see any fundamental overperforming issues with magsorc. It has a lot of underperforming values that need to be addressed as well.
I think streak should not have a stacking cost at all. Remove the resistance buff on shields and return them back to how they were. Give back frags their cc.
Fixing mag sorc is as simple as reverting a bunch of stuff. No need to redesign something which was never broken in the first place.
I honestly would not mind giving all classes back their identity. Bring back dynamic ultigen as well.
This game used to be so much fun before and it keeps going backwards patch after patch.
The warden class is absolutely destroyed in the name of balance.
necro is another one which is useless. The nerf train never stops does it?
Also warden destroyed? Omegalul. Warden is insanely strong in group play. Not on level of magsorc for solo, sure. But not bad at it by any means, in case of stamden that is. Magden does have problems in solo play, but this is mostly because they lack mobility, just like DK, templar and necro. Biggest problems of warden overall are in 1v1. But absolutely destroyed? Please..
Shock clench stun is gone. This change will entirely destroy the magden in pvp. This skill alone is what made the bar space needed, and shock staff buffed your damage. You will not be seeing competitive magdens any longer if they have to drop the damage stacking they were capable of with shock clench as a stun and spammable. Inner light, the 8% from slotting the bird of prey major expedition skill. Reach, shock staff 8% aoe damage, and the fact that shock clench dealt splash damage were holding it up. Best case scenario is try master flame staff in shock staffs place, but that spammable will now be significantly less powerful as will shalks and your AOE Ultimate. A class skill setup is absurdly awful on magden.Edited by ZarkingFrued on July 7, 2019 6:36PM2 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭Feel like magsorc will still be a top PvP class but will be vastly less cheesy. Might bring mine back out when patch hits when it doesn't feel like the goeyest Brie on a shelf with finely aged Parmesan (heavy armor stamina), some Kraft singles (most everything else) and some vegan fake cheese (necros).1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »@PhoenixGrey Been hearing a lot of buzz lately about some incoming changes, more specifically magsorc changes...
Yeah - see you in month complaining about getting blown to bits by proccblades again wondering why you don´t see any magsorcs anymore
Procblades? What's this 2016. I main a templar, procs and dots don't do anything to me. Not only that, but i'm a bg player. Nightblades are total garbage in bgs. If you see me again complaining about another class, it sure as hell won't be nightblades.
Proccs and dots don´t do anything to you but fury and curse do? How does that come to pass?
They don't. What does get to me is the portable tree for LOS better known as a matriarch. The aoe burst heal. The zaps hitting people for 3k+. The fact that streak makes pisitioning a non factor for that class. The 5k+ non stop frags.
Enjoy the nerfs!
So your idea of balance is to nerf pets frags and streak?
Uh, yes.
Well agree on the pet - like everyone sane.
Glad streak looks more like it´s getting buffed though
Not really it still has stacking cost I guess
Less stacking cost and unblockable now aswell? To me that´s a buff and i´m totally digging it.
Its decent. But what do you think of the individual shield nerfs ? It will only lead to stacking shields harder than ever.
I can´t make my mind up on that without playtesting it.
Harness received a huge nerf - so that might discourage people from stacking. Or if they want to continue to do so they´ll have to look for sustain options.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »@PhoenixGrey Been hearing a lot of buzz lately about some incoming changes, more specifically magsorc changes...
Yeah - see you in month complaining about getting blown to bits by proccblades again wondering why you don´t see any magsorcs anymore
Procblades? What's this 2016. I main a templar, procs and dots don't do anything to me. Not only that, but i'm a bg player. Nightblades are total garbage in bgs. If you see me again complaining about another class, it sure as hell won't be nightblades.
Proccs and dots don´t do anything to you but fury and curse do? How does that come to pass?
They don't. What does get to me is the portable tree for LOS better known as a matriarch. The aoe burst heal. The zaps hitting people for 3k+. The fact that streak makes pisitioning a non factor for that class. The 5k+ non stop frags.
Enjoy the nerfs!
So your idea of balance is to nerf pets frags and streak?
Uh, yes.
Well agree on the pet - like everyone sane.
Glad streak looks more like it´s getting buffed though
Not really it still has stacking cost I guess
Less stacking cost and unblockable now aswell? To me that´s a buff and i´m totally digging it.
Its decent. But what do you think of the individual shield nerfs ? It will only lead to stacking shields harder than ever.
I can´t make my mind up on that without playtesting it.
Harness received a huge nerf - so that might discourage people from stacking. Or if they want to continue to do so they´ll have to look for sustain options.
Quite the opposite. It's not self-sustainable against magicka anymore, but it's now useful against stamina.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »@PhoenixGrey Been hearing a lot of buzz lately about some incoming changes, more specifically magsorc changes...
Yeah - see you in month complaining about getting blown to bits by proccblades again wondering why you don´t see any magsorcs anymore
Procblades? What's this 2016. I main a templar, procs and dots don't do anything to me. Not only that, but i'm a bg player. Nightblades are total garbage in bgs. If you see me again complaining about another class, it sure as hell won't be nightblades.
Proccs and dots don´t do anything to you but fury and curse do? How does that come to pass?
They don't. What does get to me is the portable tree for LOS better known as a matriarch. The aoe burst heal. The zaps hitting people for 3k+. The fact that streak makes pisitioning a non factor for that class. The 5k+ non stop frags.
Enjoy the nerfs!
So your idea of balance is to nerf pets frags and streak?
Uh, yes.
Well agree on the pet - like everyone sane.
Glad streak looks more like it´s getting buffed though
Not really it still has stacking cost I guess
Less stacking cost and unblockable now aswell? To me that´s a buff and i´m totally digging it.
Its decent. But what do you think of the individual shield nerfs ? It will only lead to stacking shields harder than ever.
I can´t make my mind up on that without playtesting it.
Harness received a huge nerf - so that might discourage people from stacking. Or if they want to continue to do so they´ll have to look for sustain options.
Quite the opposite. It's not self-sustainable against magicka anymore, but it's now useful against stamina.
Harness was a very strong skill against magicka, basically self sustained itself. It did need changing.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭@PhoenixGrey Been hearing a lot of buzz lately about some incoming changes, more specifically magsorc changes...
Yeah - see you in month complaining about getting blown to bits by proccblades again wondering why you don´t see any magsorcs anymore
Procblades? What's this 2016. I main a templar, procs and dots don't do anything to me. Not only that, but i'm a bg player. Nightblades are total garbage in bgs. If you see me again complaining about another class, it sure as hell won't be nightblades.
Proccs and dots don´t do anything to you but fury and curse do? How does that come to pass?
They don't. What does get to me is the portable tree for LOS better known as a matriarch. The aoe burst heal. The zaps hitting people for 3k+. The fact that streak makes pisitioning a non factor for that class. The 5k+ non stop frags.
Enjoy the nerfs!
So your idea of balance is to nerf pets frags and streak?
Uh, yes.
So again, ur idea of balancing the most mobile class in the game is to nerf its mobility but leave its tankiness through shieldstacking untouched?
And how on earth do frags feel threatening to you when curse and fury like you said don't do anything to you? The whole point of frags is to be timed with curse.
They need something to survive, and shield stacking is not what's making them OP.
Said the expert with almost zero experience on the class while every sorc have been telling everyone for years that stacking shields is dumb.
Yeah buddy. They need something to survive. Streak should be that something unique about the class that is supposed to be mobile. Not 20k shieldstacks complemented with huge resistances and high hp.
Why do you keep making all these stupid assumptions for the sake of taking a jab at me? I could post you my pvp meter addon when i get home so you can see how i have 0 experience with the class.
Im not making any assumptions to take a jab at you. You literally admitted urself that you basically dont play the class.What sort of moronic argument is this? You think anyone cares what an average player can do? You think we're trying to get sorcs nerfed because of players like me with less than 2 days played on my sorc?
You literally called urself an average player with less than 2 days experience on the class. Which actually shows based on what you said till now about sorcs cause quite honestly, you dont seem to know how the class even functions. Let alone being in a position to judge what it needs and what doesnt.
Nvm, mission accomplished. The class is getting nerfed already. Thank you for having me
It shows how little you know. You're too inexperienced to know what an unblockable Streak stun can do. You sorry fool...
Soon, people will complain about sorc streaking AWAY even MORE often because it will be the only way to not die OOM (hardened and harness sustain nerfed, streaking away and dark exchange like tard will probably be BiS - ZoS builded sorc sustain as an out of fight tool unfortunately)
Then people will also complain about frag into curse into fury into streak into meteor.
People will always complain about sorc anyway. Most of the time it's for personal issues and not balance.5 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@leepalmer95
I agree. The changes made to it were exactly what I have been suggesting for a long time. I am very happy about that one.
@Aedaryl
Yup. This thread shows it. People can't learn how to counter sorcs, as they're different. So they complain until something gets changed. And they don't even fully grasp the consequences. Fun fact! You can still LoS behind pets. xD0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Feel like magsorc will still be a top PvP class but will be vastly less cheesy. Might bring mine back out when patch hits when it doesn't feel like the goeyest Brie on a shelf with finely aged Parmesan (heavy armor stamina), some Kraft singles (most everything else) and some vegan fake cheese (necros).
what a noob. How you ever visited cyrodil ? Are you aware most of the ball groups are only wardens? If not either complete noob or a complete liar. I think the first one.Edited by Priyasekarssk on July 7, 2019 11:04PM2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »@PhoenixGrey Been hearing a lot of buzz lately about some incoming changes, more specifically magsorc changes...
Yeah - see you in month complaining about getting blown to bits by proccblades again wondering why you don´t see any magsorcs anymore
Procblades? What's this 2016. I main a templar, procs and dots don't do anything to me. Not only that, but i'm a bg player. Nightblades are total garbage in bgs. If you see me again complaining about another class, it sure as hell won't be nightblades.
Proccs and dots don´t do anything to you but fury and curse do? How does that come to pass?
They don't. What does get to me is the portable tree for LOS better known as a matriarch. The aoe burst heal. The zaps hitting people for 3k+. The fact that streak makes pisitioning a non factor for that class. The 5k+ non stop frags.
Enjoy the nerfs!
So your idea of balance is to nerf pets frags and streak?
Uh, yes.
Well agree on the pet - like everyone sane.
Glad streak looks more like it´s getting buffed though
Not really it still has stacking cost I guess
Less stacking cost and unblockable now aswell? To me that´s a buff and i´m totally digging it.
Its decent. But what do you think of the individual shield nerfs ? It will only lead to stacking shields harder than ever.
I can´t make my mind up on that without playtesting it.
Harness received a huge nerf - so that might discourage people from stacking. Or if they want to continue to do so they´ll have to look for sustain options.
Quite the opposite. It's not self-sustainable against magicka anymore, but it's now useful against stamina.
It restores 5% of the ability's cost, per piece of light armor worn, up to three times. That's at best 7*5*3=105% of cost recovered. Of course that requires full light armor and the shield surviving long enough to be hit 3 times, but technically, it can still pay for itself.Edited by Sharee on July 8, 2019 5:24AM1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »@PhoenixGrey Been hearing a lot of buzz lately about some incoming changes, more specifically magsorc changes...
Yeah - see you in month complaining about getting blown to bits by proccblades again wondering why you don´t see any magsorcs anymore
Procblades? What's this 2016. I main a templar, procs and dots don't do anything to me. Not only that, but i'm a bg player. Nightblades are total garbage in bgs. If you see me again complaining about another class, it sure as hell won't be nightblades.
Proccs and dots don´t do anything to you but fury and curse do? How does that come to pass?
They don't. What does get to me is the portable tree for LOS better known as a matriarch. The aoe burst heal. The zaps hitting people for 3k+. The fact that streak makes pisitioning a non factor for that class. The 5k+ non stop frags.
Enjoy the nerfs!
So your idea of balance is to nerf pets frags and streak?
Uh, yes.
Well agree on the pet - like everyone sane.
Glad streak looks more like it´s getting buffed though
Not really it still has stacking cost I guess
Less stacking cost and unblockable now aswell? To me that´s a buff and i´m totally digging it.
Its decent. But what do you think of the individual shield nerfs ? It will only lead to stacking shields harder than ever.
I can´t make my mind up on that without playtesting it.
Harness received a huge nerf - so that might discourage people from stacking. Or if they want to continue to do so they´ll have to look for sustain options.
Quite the opposite. It's not self-sustainable against magicka anymore, but it's now useful against stamina.
It restores 5% of the ability's cost, per piece of light armor worn, up to three times. That's at best 7*5*3=105% of cost recovered. Of course that requires full light armor and the shield surviving long enough to be hit 3 times, but technically, it can still pay for itself.
I guess that's true. But no one wears seven light pieces. Compared to before, it's not as OP against magicka anymore, and that's good!0 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Feel like magsorc will still be a top PvP class but will be vastly less cheesy. Might bring mine back out when patch hits when it doesn't feel like the goeyest Brie on a shelf with finely aged Parmesan (heavy armor stamina), some Kraft singles (most everything else) and some vegan fake cheese (necros).
what a noob. How you ever visited cyrodil ? Are you aware most of the ball groups are only wardens? If not either complete noob or a complete liar. I think the first one.
I literally just recently complained about warden ball groups on the "Class you hate fighting" post....Yes, warden balls are more annoying to me than petsorc.
In this thread I've repeatedly called the petsorc the best solo spec for overland and not much more. Negate spam sorc is one of the things that will keep sorcs a top PvP class. Kill stealing execute for DM BGs as well. Solo will probably fall to not best but still pretty good. So a top class but probably not the top spec anywhere. Doesn't seem like an unreasonable estimation.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Feel like magsorc will still be a top PvP class but will be vastly less cheesy. Might bring mine back out when patch hits when it doesn't feel like the goeyest Brie on a shelf with finely aged Parmesan (heavy armor stamina), some Kraft singles (most everything else) and some vegan fake cheese (necros).
what a noob. How you ever visited cyrodil ? Are you aware most of the ball groups are only wardens? If not either complete noob or a complete liar. I think the first one.
I literally just recently complained about warden ball groups on the "Class you hate fighting" post....Yes, warden balls are more annoying to me than petsorc.
In this thread I've repeatedly called the petsorc the best solo spec for overland and not much more. Negate spam sorc is one of the things that will keep sorcs a top PvP class. Kill stealing execute for DM BGs as well. Solo will probably fall to not best but still pretty good. So a top class but probably not the top spec anywhere. Doesn't seem like an unreasonable estimation.
Sorc is gonna be just fine. Difference is it won't be such a carry machine of bad players now with pets dealing like 3-4k in pvp.
Now they'll have to use their tools properly, especially new bolt escape.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
thedude33✭✭✭✭✭It's funny that every patch sorcs get nerfed. Yet when you log in after the patch there are even more sorcs playing in pvp. ...and a whole new batch of uploaded sorc youtube videos 1vx1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
1 Wins - 392 Losses (guy was AFK)0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's funny that every patch sorcs get nerfed. Yet when you log in after the patch there are even more sorcs playing in pvp. ...and a whole new batch of uploaded sorc youtube videos 1vx
Well that’s because sorcs are usually changed and not nerfed. The playstyle changes but effectiveness doesn’t drop, or even goes up.
This time they’re nerfs.Edited by Iskiab on July 8, 2019 10:46AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Feel like magsorc will still be a top PvP class but will be vastly less cheesy. Might bring mine back out when patch hits when it doesn't feel like the goeyest Brie on a shelf with finely aged Parmesan (heavy armor stamina), some Kraft singles (most everything else) and some vegan fake cheese (necros).
what a noob. How you ever visited cyrodil ? Are you aware most of the ball groups are only wardens? If not either complete noob or a complete liar. I think the first one.
I literally just recently complained about warden ball groups on the "Class you hate fighting" post....Yes, warden balls are more annoying to me than petsorc.
In this thread I've repeatedly called the petsorc the best solo spec for overland and not much more. Negate spam sorc is one of the things that will keep sorcs a top PvP class. Kill stealing execute for DM BGs as well. Solo will probably fall to not best but still pretty good. So a top class but probably not the top spec anywhere. Doesn't seem like an unreasonable estimation.
Sorc is gonna be just fine. Difference is it won't be such a carry machine of bad players now with pets dealing like 3-4k in pvp.
Now they'll have to use their tools properly, especially new bolt escape.
I'm not a sorc but I like the changes - You're bang on that it won't be a carry machine for bad players.
Meteor and streak changes combined sound real strong for good players, I'm expecting to see groups of zerglings getting packed up real nice by a single sorc that knows how to bait and kite - Probably using those 2 abilities alone, let alone if their firing off traditional sorc damage in the meantime.vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)1 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Shields got nerfed, while Streak got double-buffed (lower stacking cost increase, and the stun won't be blockable), and Crystal Fragments will be slightly cheaper. The Meteor/Streak combo won't be as bad as the old Rune Cage variant, but it's still going to be really strong if you're up against someone that has decent timing.It's funny that every patch sorcs get nerfed. Yet when you log in after the patch there are even more sorcs playing in pvp. ...and a whole new batch of uploaded sorc youtube videos 1vx
Well that’s because sorcs are usually changed and not nerfed. The playstyle changes but effectiveness doesn’t drop, or even goes up.
This time they’re nerfs.
And I guess the changes to Reach means you won't get stun/knockback spammed from 28 meters non-stop anymore, which is a good thing (and also applies to other classes). We may see more Sorcs going back to the old school Crushing Shock/Force Pulse spam with Streak for their CC; damage will still be quite strong, but you may not get stunned the instant your immunity runs out, as long as you're at range.
It's too early for us to say for sure what the pecking order is going to be, especially since there's a possibility of significant changes between now and the patch actually going live, but I'd anticipate that Magicka Sorcerers will still be quite strong, at least when compared to other Magicka classes.2 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Feel like magsorc will still be a top PvP class but will be vastly less cheesy. Might bring mine back out when patch hits when it doesn't feel like the goeyest Brie on a shelf with finely aged Parmesan (heavy armor stamina), some Kraft singles (most everything else) and some vegan fake cheese (necros).
what a noob. How you ever visited cyrodil ? Are you aware most of the ball groups are only wardens? If not either complete noob or a complete liar. I think the first one.
I literally just recently complained about warden ball groups on the "Class you hate fighting" post....Yes, warden balls are more annoying to me than petsorc.
In this thread I've repeatedly called the petsorc the best solo spec for overland and not much more. Negate spam sorc is one of the things that will keep sorcs a top PvP class. Kill stealing execute for DM BGs as well. Solo will probably fall to not best but still pretty good. So a top class but probably not the top spec anywhere. Doesn't seem like an unreasonable estimation.
Sorc is gonna be just fine. Difference is it won't be such a carry machine of bad players now with pets dealing like 3-4k in pvp.
Now they'll have to use their tools properly, especially new bolt escape.
^^^^^^0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Shields got nerfed, while Streak got double-buffed (lower stacking cost increase, and the stun won't be blockable), and Crystal Fragments will be slightly cheaper. The Meteor/Streak combo won't be as bad as the old Rune Cage variant, but it's still going to be really strong if you're up against someone that has decent timing.It's funny that every patch sorcs get nerfed. Yet when you log in after the patch there are even more sorcs playing in pvp. ...and a whole new batch of uploaded sorc youtube videos 1vx
Well that’s because sorcs are usually changed and not nerfed. The playstyle changes but effectiveness doesn’t drop, or even goes up.
This time they’re nerfs.
And I guess the changes to Reach means you won't get stun/knockback spammed from 28 meters non-stop anymore, which is a good thing (and also applies to other classes). We may see more Sorcs going back to the old school Crushing Shock/Force Pulse spam with Streak for their CC; damage will still be quite strong, but you may not get stunned the instant your immunity runs out, as long as you're at range.
It's too early for us to say for sure what the pecking order is going to be, especially since there's a possibility of significant changes between now and the patch actually going live, but I'd anticipate that Magicka Sorcerers will still be quite strong, at least when compared to other Magicka classes.
I'd argue the new Streak combo will be even more dangerous than the Cage one. Range is non-existant in PvP, it's an open secret. And Cage delivered the damage after break free, which gave time for a HoT to tick or Fury to run out. Everything aside from the Frag will now hit as a true combo - as it should be. Landing the Frag will be easy on PC. Console, however... Well, that'll be a problem. But PC guys are in for a lot of pain, seeing an actually working sorc class for the first time since Summerset.
Reach is largely unchanged, isn't it?0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Shields got nerfed, while Streak got double-buffed (lower stacking cost increase, and the stun won't be blockable), and Crystal Fragments will be slightly cheaper. The Meteor/Streak combo won't be as bad as the old Rune Cage variant, but it's still going to be really strong if you're up against someone that has decent timing.It's funny that every patch sorcs get nerfed. Yet when you log in after the patch there are even more sorcs playing in pvp. ...and a whole new batch of uploaded sorc youtube videos 1vx
Well that’s because sorcs are usually changed and not nerfed. The playstyle changes but effectiveness doesn’t drop, or even goes up.
This time they’re nerfs.
And I guess the changes to Reach means you won't get stun/knockback spammed from 28 meters non-stop anymore, which is a good thing (and also applies to other classes). We may see more Sorcs going back to the old school Crushing Shock/Force Pulse spam with Streak for their CC; damage will still be quite strong, but you may not get stunned the instant your immunity runs out, as long as you're at range.
It's too early for us to say for sure what the pecking order is going to be, especially since there's a possibility of significant changes between now and the patch actually going live, but I'd anticipate that Magicka Sorcerers will still be quite strong, at least when compared to other Magicka classes.
I'd argue the new Streak combo will be even more dangerous than the Cage one. Range is non-existant in PvP, it's an open secret. And Cage delivered the damage after break free, which gave time for a HoT to tick or Fury to run out. Everything aside from the Frag will now hit as a true combo - as it should be. Landing the Frag will be easy on PC. Console, however... Well, that'll be a problem. But PC guys are in for a lot of pain, seeing an actually working sorc class for the first time since Summerset.
Reach is largely unchanged, isn't it?
Reach lost it´s cc. Clench goes to 15m keeps the cc but loses the dot.
The combo won´t be as strong as in SS purely bc more pieces of it can be evaded/blocked.
You can evade the applycation of fury.
You can block a frag coming at you while ccbreaking the streak. It´s impossible to guarantee the unblocked frag hit with streak because the ability has no delay (contrary to cage).<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Major incoming changes for Destructive Reach/Clench. The only one with a stun will be Flame Clench, which will have a 15m range, ~17% less up front damage, and no DOT component (don't know yet if the duration or distance of the knockback/stun will change). Destructive Reach also loses ~17% up front damage, but gains significantly more damage over time, and loses all other secondary effects. Both morphs will be substantially cheaper than they are on live, with Reach apparently being slightly cheaper than Clench.
Shields got nerfed, while Streak got double-buffed (lower stacking cost increase, and the stun won't be blockable), and Crystal Fragments will be slightly cheaper. The Meteor/Streak combo won't be as bad as the old Rune Cage variant, but it's still going to be really strong if you're up against someone that has decent timing.It's funny that every patch sorcs get nerfed. Yet when you log in after the patch there are even more sorcs playing in pvp. ...and a whole new batch of uploaded sorc youtube videos 1vx
Well that’s because sorcs are usually changed and not nerfed. The playstyle changes but effectiveness doesn’t drop, or even goes up.
This time they’re nerfs.
And I guess the changes to Reach means you won't get stun/knockback spammed from 28 meters non-stop anymore, which is a good thing (and also applies to other classes). We may see more Sorcs going back to the old school Crushing Shock/Force Pulse spam with Streak for their CC; damage will still be quite strong, but you may not get stunned the instant your immunity runs out, as long as you're at range.
It's too early for us to say for sure what the pecking order is going to be, especially since there's a possibility of significant changes between now and the patch actually going live, but I'd anticipate that Magicka Sorcerers will still be quite strong, at least when compared to other Magicka classes.
I'd argue the new Streak combo will be even more dangerous than the Cage one. Range is non-existant in PvP, it's an open secret. And Cage delivered the damage after break free, which gave time for a HoT to tick or Fury to run out. Everything aside from the Frag will now hit as a true combo - as it should be. Landing the Frag will be easy on PC. Console, however... Well, that'll be a problem. But PC guys are in for a lot of pain, seeing an actually working sorc class for the first time since Summerset.
Reach is largely unchanged, isn't it?
Shock Clench's secondary effect is being changed to an AOE explosion rather than a stun, but no one knows what the damage will be like until the PTS comes up. This change stinks for Magicka Warden and Magicka Necromancer (unless that Shock damage is really ridiculous or something), since they/we would often prefer to use Lightning Staves over Flame ones, and also happen to be the classes with the worst CC options...Necromancer especially.
As for the Sorc combo: range sometimes matters in PvP. If you're a largely immobile Magicka class trying to face off against a Mag Sorc, range can matter quite a bit, especially in team fights when other people are adding extra snares and pressure. It also matters a lot when trying to escape from a Sorc, since there's absolutely no way to outrun one.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oooh... I overlooked the Reach CC loss. That's a tough loss.
Fury was also avoidable in Summerset? You could always dodge the first hit. Frag really wasn't guaranteed at range. Up close that's a different story, but that is also true for Streak->Frag. From the videos I've seen of PC gameplay, it should hit during the CC. Have you tested it yet on PTS?
Let's say range matters rarely. Every now and then, perhaps. But if a sorc has the luxury of staying at max range in open Cyrodiil, you can just turn away. The sorc won't be able to catch you without wasting lots of resources. And you can always just round a corner and be gone. The fights that matter are always fought up close, IMO.0 -
Trian94✭✭✭✭Streak change was good for both magsorc and stamsorc because there other changes in weapons and class skills tha t affect them too.PC EU
Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oooh... I overlooked the Reach CC loss. That's a tough loss.
Fury was also avoidable in Summerset? You could always dodge the first hit. Frag really wasn't guaranteed at range. Up close that's a different story, but that is also true for Streak->Frag. From the videos I've seen of PC gameplay, it should hit during the CC. Have you tested it yet on PTS?
Let's say range matters rarely. Every now and then, perhaps. But if a sorc has the luxury of staying at max range in open Cyrodiil, you can just turn away. The sorc won't be able to catch you without wasting lots of resources. And you can always just round a corner and be gone. The fights that matter are always fought up close, IMO.
It wasn´t possible to guarantee a frag hit with streak prior to minimum traveltime on the ability - if the enemy breaks fast enough.
You could dodge the first hit of fury in summerset - but the explosion would be applied regardless if dodged or not - so the execute part of the skill was unavoidable.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Streak change was good for both magsorc and stamsorc because there other changes in weapons and class skills tha t affect them too.
Respec to stam. Just saying. It's going to be good.It's funny that every patch sorcs get nerfed. Yet when you log in after the patch there are even more sorcs playing in pvp. ...and a whole new batch of uploaded sorc youtube videos 1vx
Well that’s because sorcs are usually changed and not nerfed. The playstyle changes but effectiveness doesn’t drop, or even goes up.
This time they’re nerfs.
ESO is moving to damage vs healing and dodging, with mitigation and shields declining in value.
What sorc does have is access to major vitality, surge heals, clanfear or twilight burst heals. Not saying it is viable, but it is there. Overall, I think the overwhelming advantage is to play stamina where you have access to vigor heals as well as block and dodge while keeping vitality, streak, and surge.
Pets blocking attacks is still there, but you are using them for heals not damage.0 -
Sureshawt✭✭✭✭Well since they removed the only real counter that provided some pressure in a 1v1 (shieldbreaker) I just ignore Sorcs and don't even attempt a 1v1 anymore.
The only real chance against them is either a lucky CC just as one of their multiple shields times out and then hope your burst is enough against remaining shields before they streak away or a swarm them with the hope that you have some players with amazing speed or a Sorc to keep pace with them as they streak away.
Sorcs are ESO's chosen god class on EZ mode.
Edited by Sureshawt on July 10, 2019 4:12PM0 -
oxygen_thief✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well since they removed the only real counter that provided some pressure in a 1v1 (shieldbreaker) I just ignore Sorcs and don't even attempt a 1v1 anymore.
The only real chance against them is either a lucky CC just as one of their multiple shields times out and then hope your burst is enough against remaining shields before they streak away or a swarm them with the hope that you have some players with amazing speed or a Sorc to keep pace with them as they streak away.
Sorcs are ESO's chosen god class on EZ mode.
if it wouldve been op god mode you wouldve been writing that sorc kills you in one second and you cant do anything with it. if you cant kill sorc and sorc cant kill you it means that in the formed situation you are equal. if being equal to you is na op god mode then theris nothing more to say here.0 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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While I wouldn't call Sorcs "god mode" or anything, the fact that two players fail to kill each other doesn't actually make them equal. If one player is far more mobile than the other, they're clearly "better" since they'll have two options that their opponent doesn't:oxygen_thief wrote: »Well since they removed the only real counter that provided some pressure in a 1v1 (shieldbreaker) I just ignore Sorcs and don't even attempt a 1v1 anymore.
The only real chance against them is either a lucky CC just as one of their multiple shields times out and then hope your burst is enough against remaining shields before they streak away or a swarm them with the hope that you have some players with amazing speed or a Sorc to keep pace with them as they streak away.
Sorcs are ESO's chosen god class on EZ mode.
if it wouldve been op god mode you wouldve been writing that sorc kills you in one second and you cant do anything with it. if you cant kill sorc and sorc cant kill you it means that in the formed situation you are equal. if being equal to you is na op god mode then theris nothing more to say here.
1) Hang around on the periphery and look for an opportunity to attack again when they have the advantage.
2) Keep resetting the fight and attacking again, waiting for their opponent to eventually make a mistake.
This sort of thing was pretty regular with Stam builds vs Magicka builds back during the speedster days. If it became apparent that they weren't going to kill my non-mobile Magicka setup without some risk of their own death, they'd Dodge Roll once or twice, sprint for a couple seconds, and hide around LOS waiting for their next opportunity. And since I couldn't escape them if the tables were turned the other way, they had the clear advantage.
It's that way for me now against Magicka Sorcerers, and it's certainly annoying (though should be less so once Master Staff Reach spam goes away), but at least it's not Mag Sorcs and basically every Stam build.1