The "Balance" of Mag Sorcs

bardx86

wheem_ESO wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Well since they removed the only real counter that provided some pressure in a 1v1 (shieldbreaker) I just ignore Sorcs and don't even attempt a 1v1 anymore.

The only real chance against them is either a lucky CC just as one of their multiple shields times out and then hope your burst is enough against remaining shields before they streak away or a swarm them with the hope that you have some players with amazing speed or a Sorc to keep pace with them as they streak away.

Sorcs are ESO's chosen god class on EZ mode.

if it wouldve been op god mode you wouldve been writing that sorc kills you in one second and you cant do anything with it. if you cant kill sorc and sorc cant kill you it means that in the formed situation you are equal. if being equal to you is na op god mode then theris nothing more to say here.

While I wouldn't call Sorcs "god mode" or anything, the fact that two players fail to kill each other doesn't actually make them equal. If one player is far more mobile than the other, they're clearly "better" since they'll have two options that their opponent doesn't:
1) Hang around on the periphery and look for an opportunity to attack again when they have the advantage.
2) Keep resetting the fight and attacking again, waiting for their opponent to eventually make a mistake.

This sort of thing was pretty regular with Stam builds vs Magicka builds back during the speedster days. If it became apparent that they weren't going to kill my non-mobile Magicka setup without some risk of their own death, they'd Dodge Roll once or twice, sprint for a couple seconds, and hide around LOS waiting for their next opportunity. And since I couldn't escape them if the tables were turned the other way, they had the clear advantage.

It's that way for me now against Magicka Sorcerers, and it's certainly annoying (though should be less so once Master Staff Reach spam goes away), but at least it's not Mag Sorcs and basically every Stam build.

So it sounds like that the Sorcs damage needs to be buffed as they couldn't kill a non mobile build.

oxygen_thief

wheem_ESO wrote: »

equal. If one player is far more mobile than the other, they're clearly "better" since they'll have two options that their opponent doesn't:
1) Hang around on the periphery and look for an opportunity to attack again when they have the advantage.
2) Keep resetting the fight and attacking again, waiting for their opponent to eventually make a mistake.

do want to say that stamina builds cant be mobile or what?

wheem_ESO

bardx86 wrote: »

So it sounds like that the Sorcs damage needs to be buffed as they couldn't kill a non mobile build.

What kind of justification are you offering here? That since the mobile class couldn't kill the immobile class in a 1v1, the mobile player needs a damage buff and to retain their (vastly) superior mobility?

I think a lot of Magicka Sorcerers are "spoiled" by not playing many/any other Magicka classes (especially solo). When I came back to the game with Morrowind, I started playing Magicka Warden as a main. At some point after that I changed my old Stamina Sorcerer over to Magicka, leveled up my Staff skill lines, and started running BGs with it - wow what a difference. The mobility and offensive killing power was night and day different, with the only advantage I could really feel on the Warden being undodgeable Cliff Racers, which obviously went the way of the Dodo a long time ago.

Lots of things have changed during that time, but Sorcerers have still maintained a pretty dominant position among the various offense-oriented Magicka classes, due to the combination of mobility and really potent burst damage (plus an amazing execute, which was recently un-nerfed).

This doesn't mean that they're the most overpowered godmode class and blah blah blah, but Sorcerers haven't been a "dead" class for as long as I've been playing the game, despite endless claims to the contrary. Some patches are obviously better or worse than others, but looking at what's in 5.1 so far, I'd definitely say that Magicka Sorcerers do not need a buff to their damage in PvP. Sustain might be a different story, and shield size nerfs may be too much (especially for no-CP), but I'm not 100% sure on that yet.

oxygen_thief wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

equal. If one player is far more mobile than the other, they're clearly "better" since they'll have two options that their opponent doesn't:
1) Hang around on the periphery and look for an opportunity to attack again when they have the advantage.
2) Keep resetting the fight and attacking again, waiting for their opponent to eventually make a mistake.

do want to say that stamina builds cant be mobile or what?

What? I honestly don't understand what you're asking here.

Sureshawt

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Well since they removed the only real counter that provided some pressure in a 1v1 (shieldbreaker) I just ignore Sorcs and don't even attempt a 1v1 anymore.

The only real chance against them is either a lucky CC just as one of their multiple shields times out and then hope your burst is enough against remaining shields before they streak away or a swarm them with the hope that you have some players with amazing speed or a Sorc to keep pace with them as they streak away.

Sorcs are ESO's chosen god class on EZ mode.

if it wouldve been op god mode you wouldve been writing that sorc kills you in one second and you cant do anything with it. if you cant kill sorc and sorc cant kill you it means that in the formed situation you are equal. if being equal to you is na op god mode then theris nothing more to say here.

I think you misunderstand.

I used to have good fights with Sorcs 1v1 with shieldbreaker. Sometimes it broke my way and some times their way.

Now I can just forget about that because if I do engage they win hands down unless I get that lucky CC in just as one of their shields goes down and then DPS the remaining shield/lucky crits on health pool before they CCbreak/streak away stunning and killing me. Way to much luck involved on my end and none on their end.

The fun engagements I used to have in the past with Sorcs simply don't occur anymore because I choose not to engage them, which means no thrilling fights for either of us.

I say they are EZ God mode because they can face tank multiple opponents and if things get even close to punishing for the Sorc they simply streak away. The only way they get killed is when enough DPS can be brought to bear by multiple players before they streak away or if another Sorc can streak after them to keep pressure.

Everyone that plays PvP experiences this on a regular basis. The cheese is pretty self evident in this case.

Lord-Otto

wheem_ESO wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

So it sounds like that the Sorcs damage needs to be buffed as they couldn't kill a non mobile build.

What kind of justification are you offering here? That since the mobile class couldn't kill the immobile class in a 1v1, the mobile player needs a damage buff and to retain their (vastly) superior mobility?

I think a lot of Magicka Sorcerers are "spoiled" by not playing many/any other Magicka classes (especially solo). When I came back to the game with Morrowind, I started playing Magicka Warden as a main. At some point after that I changed my old Stamina Sorcerer over to Magicka, leveled up my Staff skill lines, and started running BGs with it - wow what a difference. The mobility and offensive killing power was night and day different, with the only advantage I could really feel on the Warden being undodgeable Cliff Racers, which obviously went the way of the Dodo a long time ago.

Lots of things have changed during that time, but Sorcerers have still maintained a pretty dominant position among the various offense-oriented Magicka classes, due to the combination of mobility and really potent burst damage (plus an amazing execute, which was recently un-nerfed).

This doesn't mean that they're the most overpowered godmode class and blah blah blah, but Sorcerers haven't been a "dead" class for as long as I've been playing the game, despite endless claims to the contrary. Some patches are obviously better or worse than others, but looking at what's in 5.1 so far, I'd definitely say that Magicka Sorcerers do not need a buff to their damage in PvP. Sustain might be a different story, and shield size nerfs may be too much (especially for no-CP), but I'm not 100% sure on that yet.

oxygen_thief wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

equal. If one player is far more mobile than the other, they're clearly "better" since they'll have two options that their opponent doesn't:
1) Hang around on the periphery and look for an opportunity to attack again when they have the advantage.
2) Keep resetting the fight and attacking again, waiting for their opponent to eventually make a mistake.

do want to say that stamina builds cant be mobile or what?

What? I honestly don't understand what you're asking here.

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

Luckylancer

Why people get salty when random dude post cry topic about the strongest pvp class in the game? Ask yourselfs this; where are all the nerf stamsorc or stamplar cry posts? Why people only want your class to be nerfed and why you like that class

wheem_ESO

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

PhoenixGrey

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

MaxJrFTW

Luckylancer wrote: »

Why people get salty when random dude post cry topic about the strongest pvp class in the game? Ask yourselfs this; where are all the nerf stamsorc or stamplar cry posts? Why people only want your class to be nerfed and why you like that class

Killset

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

Magplar free AP right now?..... That comment right there makes me seriously question how much you actually PvP.... Just stop.

MaxJrFTW

Killset wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

Magplar free AP right now?..... That comment right there makes me seriously question how much you actually PvP.... Just stop.

I dare you to play a magplar against actual top players and prove that comment wrong. At least in high mmr bgs(PC NA) there's very few people left playing magplars, and they're all struggling. In open world nobody wants magplars because they don't have mobility. Even for healing, both magdens and magblades are better healers right now.

Magplars are good for 1v1 and pug stomping, the moment you go against a good player they all know you're a 1 trick pony. Timing your Purifying Light explosion with Crescent is pretty much the only way you have of killing someone, the rest of your abilities do little to do dmg. To top it off, they're nerfing barrage by like 30%. Don't even mention the Eclipse change, we all know that's not going live.

Mojomonkeyman

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

Magplar free AP right now?..... That comment right there makes me seriously question how much you actually PvP.... Just stop.

I dare you to play a magplar against actual top players and prove that comment wrong. At least in high mmr bgs(PC NA) there's very few people left playing magplars, and they're all struggling. In open world nobody wants magplars because they don't have mobility. Even for healing, both magdens and magblades are better healers right now.

Magplars are good for 1v1 and pug stomping, the moment you go against a good player they all know you're a 1 trick pony. Timing your Purifying Light explosion with Crescent is pretty much the only way you have of killing someone, the rest of your abilities do little to do dmg. To top it off, they're nerfing barrage by like 30%. Don't even mention the Eclipse change, we all know that's not going live.

On PC EU top MMR mag DMGplar is considered one of the strongest and most played setups currently. Premade and solo Q. And hell yeah, it is freaking strong. From what I see on streams PC NA tends to just lack players willing to invest time into magicka gameplay, except msorc. They all nerd on their stamina chars (Im such a stronk warrior!) for years now. And when they play magicka its either magsorc or pure healbot.

Similar for Mag NB, its considered one of the stronger BG setups here on PC EU, for both healing and damage, for about 2 patches now. I don't see any Mag NBs on NA streams, tho.

Killset

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

Magplar free AP right now?..... That comment right there makes me seriously question how much you actually PvP.... Just stop.

I dare you to play a magplar against actual top players and prove that comment wrong. At least in high mmr bgs(PC NA) there's very few people left playing magplars, and they're all struggling. In open world nobody wants magplars because they don't have mobility. Even for healing, both magdens and magblades are better healers right now.

Magplars are good for 1v1 and pug stomping, the moment you go against a good player they all know you're a 1 trick pony. Timing your Purifying Light explosion with Crescent is pretty much the only way you have of killing someone, the rest of your abilities do little to do dmg. To top it off, they're nerfing barrage by like 30%. Don't even mention the Eclipse change, we all know that's not going live.

Magplar is a one trick pony because they have to do what everyone else has to do - time an ulti with a heavy hitting ability? Stamden Sub Assault Dawnbreaker, Stamblade Incap Bow, Stamplar POL Dawnbreaker, MagNB SH Bow, you get the point. Crescent hits for bricks and is cheap AF. On top of that you can hit it in the same GCD as Purifying Light. And Magplars have awesome mobility right now with Mist or RAT. The class is super solid. Stack max magic, put on pirate skeleton, go forth and conquer.

Khenzy

Killset wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

Magplar free AP right now?..... That comment right there makes me seriously question how much you actually PvP.... Just stop.

I dare you to play a magplar against actual top players and prove that comment wrong. At least in high mmr bgs(PC NA) there's very few people left playing magplars, and they're all struggling. In open world nobody wants magplars because they don't have mobility. Even for healing, both magdens and magblades are better healers right now.

Magplars are good for 1v1 and pug stomping, the moment you go against a good player they all know you're a 1 trick pony. Timing your Purifying Light explosion with Crescent is pretty much the only way you have of killing someone, the rest of your abilities do little to do dmg. To top it off, they're nerfing barrage by like 30%. Don't even mention the Eclipse change, we all know that's not going live.

Magplar is a one trick pony because they have to do what everyone else has to do - time an ulti with a heavy hitting ability? Stamden Sub Assault Dawnbreaker, Stamblade Incap Bow, Stamplar POL Dawnbreaker, MagNB SH Bow, you get the point. Crescent hits for bricks and is cheap AF. On top of that you can hit it in the same GCD as Purifying Light. And Magplars have awesome mobility right now with Mist or RAT. The class is super solid. Stack max magic, put on pirate skeleton, go forth and conquer.

Mobility that's also indirectly increased with the new Living Dark that immobilizes foes that are attacking you. Magplars are gonna be very good next patch.

Lord-Otto

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

Magplar free AP right now?..... That comment right there makes me seriously question how much you actually PvP.... Just stop.

I dare you to play a magplar against actual top players and prove that comment wrong. At least in high mmr bgs(PC NA) there's very few people left playing magplars, and they're all struggling. In open world nobody wants magplars because they don't have mobility. Even for healing, both magdens and magblades are better healers right now.

Magplars are good for 1v1 and pug stomping, the moment you go against a good player they all know you're a 1 trick pony. Timing your Purifying Light explosion with Crescent is pretty much the only way you have of killing someone, the rest of your abilities do little to do dmg. To top it off, they're nerfing barrage by like 30%. Don't even mention the Eclipse change, we all know that's not going live.

Nah. You're just bad.

oxygen_thief

Sureshawt wrote: »

I used to have good fights with Sorcs 1v1 with shieldbreaker.

ive been playing sorc since 2016. im an average player at the best but i won every 1v1 encounter were shield breaker was used because this particular set was used by total noobs only. its proc sound was like a mesage "im a free frag and iam here"

PhoenixGrey

Killset wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

Magplar free AP right now?..... That comment right there makes me seriously question how much you actually PvP.... Just stop.

It's a strong dueling and bg class but that's not what I m talking about. How much do you run solo openworld on your magplar? Do you enjoy getting zerged down having zero mobility ?

Living dark gives me hope now that mag sorc is getting shafted

NuarBlack

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

Magplar free AP right now?..... That comment right there makes me seriously question how much you actually PvP.... Just stop.

It's a strong dueling and bg class but that's not what I m talking about. How much do you run solo openworld on your magplar? Do you enjoy getting zerged down having zero mobility ?

Living dark gives me hope now that mag sorc is getting shafted

So it's bad in this completey made up scenario you have created and mode that doesn't exist? Solo open world isn't an official thing. When are people gonna get this. Cyro was dead on arrival as far real pvp goes. It was designed as a zergfest, it will always be a zergfest. There will be no balancing around solo open world as that technically is not a thing. It was rose tinted nostalgia that gave us the cyro mess in the forst place as the format has never made for good pvp. And that includes dark age of Camelot too. So if a class is performing well in zergs in cyro and good in BGs you better just accept it is working as intended. As Zos will make their balance decisions around those as they should.

Killset

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

Magplar free AP right now?..... That comment right there makes me seriously question how much you actually PvP.... Just stop.

It's a strong dueling and bg class but that's not what I m talking about. How much do you run solo openworld on your magplar? Do you enjoy getting zerged down having zero mobility ?

Living dark gives me hope now that mag sorc is getting shafted

Meh... On and off... And yes solo... I put Crafty and BTB with pirate skeleton and mist form and was like wow... Super mobility with mist, higher resists than my StamNB before you even factor in pirate skeleton, and crazy damage. The class is good man... The times I couldn’t get away would have gotten me on anything except Magsorc maybe. All I am saying is the class is in a really good spot right now. It’s very strange for me to hear anyone saying otherwise.

Iskiab

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

Magplar free AP right now?..... That comment right there makes me seriously question how much you actually PvP.... Just stop.

I dare you to play a magplar against actual top players and prove that comment wrong. At least in high mmr bgs(PC NA) there's very few people left playing magplars, and they're all struggling. In open world nobody wants magplars because they don't have mobility. Even for healing, both magdens and magblades are better healers right now.

Magplars are good for 1v1 and pug stomping, the moment you go against a good player they all know you're a 1 trick pony. Timing your Purifying Light explosion with Crescent is pretty much the only way you have of killing someone, the rest of your abilities do little to do dmg. To top it off, they're nerfing barrage by like 30%. Don't even mention the Eclipse change, we all know that's not going live.

On PC EU top MMR mag DMGplar is considered one of the strongest and most played setups currently. Premade and solo Q. And hell yeah, it is freaking strong. From what I see on streams PC NA tends to just lack players willing to invest time into magicka gameplay, except msorc. They all nerd on their stamina chars (Im such a stronk warrior!) for years now. And when they play magicka its either magsorc or pure healbot.

Similar for Mag NB, its considered one of the stronger BG setups here on PC EU, for both healing and damage, for about 2 patches now. I don't see any Mag NBs on NA streams, tho.

From a BG perspective...

On PC-NA magblades pop up sometimes but they aren’t very strong as pure damage dealers. It’s far more common to see them being healers, but that’s a more recent development.

Magplar as dps aren’t very common but the ones who do play do really well, the ones who struggle are the pure healer Magplars.

It’s sort of opposite land for BG pvp; NBs are better healers and Templars are better as dps. Most people are stuck in the stereotype mentality so have it backwards, you’ll still see a lot of bad forum advice about pvp roles because they talk about how it should be and not how it is, they assume too much.

Thinking about it the current strengths make total sense. Magblades don’t have enough self healing to be effective as a dps and being a healer compensates for this. Magplars don’t have enough mobility for when they’re focused to be a healer but the extra healing is great as a dps.

This is from the perspective at the highest MMR.

NuarBlack

Iskiab wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

Magplar free AP right now?..... That comment right there makes me seriously question how much you actually PvP.... Just stop.

I dare you to play a magplar against actual top players and prove that comment wrong. At least in high mmr bgs(PC NA) there's very few people left playing magplars, and they're all struggling. In open world nobody wants magplars because they don't have mobility. Even for healing, both magdens and magblades are better healers right now.

Magplars are good for 1v1 and pug stomping, the moment you go against a good player they all know you're a 1 trick pony. Timing your Purifying Light explosion with Crescent is pretty much the only way you have of killing someone, the rest of your abilities do little to do dmg. To top it off, they're nerfing barrage by like 30%. Don't even mention the Eclipse change, we all know that's not going live.

On PC EU top MMR mag DMGplar is considered one of the strongest and most played setups currently. Premade and solo Q. And hell yeah, it is freaking strong. From what I see on streams PC NA tends to just lack players willing to invest time into magicka gameplay, except msorc. They all nerd on their stamina chars (Im such a stronk warrior!) for years now. And when they play magicka its either magsorc or pure healbot.

Similar for Mag NB, its considered one of the stronger BG setups here on PC EU, for both healing and damage, for about 2 patches now. I don't see any Mag NBs on NA streams, tho.

From a BG perspective...

On PC-NA magblades pop up sometimes but they aren’t very strong as pure damage dealers. It’s far more common to see them being healers, but that’s a more recent development.

Magplar as dps aren’t very common but the ones who do play do really well, the ones who struggle are the pure healer Magplars.

It’s sort of opposite land for BG pvp; NBs are better healers and Templars are better as dps. Most people are stuck in the stereotype mentality so have it backwards, you’ll still see a lot of bad forum advice about pvp roles because they talk about how it should be and not how it is, they assume too much.

Thinking about it the current strengths make total sense. Magblades don’t have enough self healing to be effective as a dps and being a healer compensates for this. Magplars don’t have enough mobility for when they’re focused to be a healer but the extra healing is great as a dps.

This is from the perspective at the highest MMR.

This. I struggled to make a magblade dps forever as outside of caalurions ganking it just didn't work for me. As a healer or support it is super strong though. I feel like keeping major mending up via resto heavy attacks is much easier on magblade cause of the hots you can have rolling that allow you the time to do it. Magplar heal bots have hardly any time cause breath spamming takes up most your time.

Koensol

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

Magplar free AP right now?..... That comment right there makes me seriously question how much you actually PvP.... Just stop.

I dare you to play a magplar against actual top players and prove that comment wrong. At least in high mmr bgs(PC NA) there's very few people left playing magplars, and they're all struggling. In open world nobody wants magplars because they don't have mobility. Even for healing, both magdens and magblades are better healers right now.

Magplars are good for 1v1 and pug stomping, the moment you go against a good player they all know you're a 1 trick pony. Timing your Purifying Light explosion with Crescent is pretty much the only way you have of killing someone, the rest of your abilities do little to do dmg. To top it off, they're nerfing barrage by like 30%. Don't even mention the Eclipse change, we all know that's not going live.

On PC EU top MMR mag DMGplar is considered one of the strongest and most played setups currently. Premade and solo Q. And hell yeah, it is freaking strong. From what I see on streams PC NA tends to just lack players willing to invest time into magicka gameplay, except msorc. They all nerd on their stamina chars (Im such a stronk warrior!) for years now. And when they play magicka its either magsorc or pure healbot.

Similar for Mag NB, its considered one of the stronger BG setups here on PC EU, for both healing and damage, for about 2 patches now. I don't see any Mag NBs on NA streams, tho.

Agreed on magplar, but magblade?? No. I have played BGs a lot the last year and you rarely see magblade dd's on EU PC. The one that I do see frequently in high MMR, Heresya, is simply an insanely good player who has mastered the class. But even he cheeses on magblade in BGs, using zaan and caluurion. Magblade has some good tools, and I suppose in the right group can be BiS. But it lacks the consistent AoE that magplar and magdens bring. Especially in solo queue without a lot of grouphealing magblade struggles.

Healblade I agree. I have played healblade for a long time now and it has been insanely strong ever since the introduction of healthy offering, but especially now that they got snare and root immunity. This patch they seem to have exploded in quantity though. Like suddenly people started to realize how strong magblade healer actually is. Quite funny to see how long it took people to break out of the "hurr duurrr templar or warden healer only hurr hurr" mentality.

Lord-Otto

Koensol wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

Magplar free AP right now?..... That comment right there makes me seriously question how much you actually PvP.... Just stop.

I dare you to play a magplar against actual top players and prove that comment wrong. At least in high mmr bgs(PC NA) there's very few people left playing magplars, and they're all struggling. In open world nobody wants magplars because they don't have mobility. Even for healing, both magdens and magblades are better healers right now.

Magplars are good for 1v1 and pug stomping, the moment you go against a good player they all know you're a 1 trick pony. Timing your Purifying Light explosion with Crescent is pretty much the only way you have of killing someone, the rest of your abilities do little to do dmg. To top it off, they're nerfing barrage by like 30%. Don't even mention the Eclipse change, we all know that's not going live.

On PC EU top MMR mag DMGplar is considered one of the strongest and most played setups currently. Premade and solo Q. And hell yeah, it is freaking strong. From what I see on streams PC NA tends to just lack players willing to invest time into magicka gameplay, except msorc. They all nerd on their stamina chars (Im such a stronk warrior!) for years now. And when they play magicka its either magsorc or pure healbot.

Similar for Mag NB, its considered one of the stronger BG setups here on PC EU, for both healing and damage, for about 2 patches now. I don't see any Mag NBs on NA streams, tho.

Agreed on magplar, but magblade?? No. I have played BGs a lot the last year and you rarely see magblade dd's on EU PC. The one that I do see frequently in high MMR, Heresya, is simply an insanely good player who has mastered the class. But even he cheeses on magblade in BGs, using zaan and caluurion. Magblade has some good tools, and I suppose in the right group can be BiS. But it lacks the consistent AoE that magplar and magdens bring. Especially in solo queue without a lot of grouphealing magblade struggles.

Healblade I agree. I have played healblade for a long time now and it has been insanely strong ever since the introduction of healthy offering, but especially now that they got snare and root immunity. This patch they seem to have exploded in quantity though. Like suddenly people started to realize how strong magblade healer actually is. Quite funny to see how long it took people to break out of the "hurr duurrr templar or warden healer only hurr hurr" mentality.

HEY! Didn't you wanna leave?
SHOOO!!!
\(>~<)/
Just kidding. Are you happy with the changes?

Koensol

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

Magplar free AP right now?..... That comment right there makes me seriously question how much you actually PvP.... Just stop.

I dare you to play a magplar against actual top players and prove that comment wrong. At least in high mmr bgs(PC NA) there's very few people left playing magplars, and they're all struggling. In open world nobody wants magplars because they don't have mobility. Even for healing, both magdens and magblades are better healers right now.

Magplars are good for 1v1 and pug stomping, the moment you go against a good player they all know you're a 1 trick pony. Timing your Purifying Light explosion with Crescent is pretty much the only way you have of killing someone, the rest of your abilities do little to do dmg. To top it off, they're nerfing barrage by like 30%. Don't even mention the Eclipse change, we all know that's not going live.

On PC EU top MMR mag DMGplar is considered one of the strongest and most played setups currently. Premade and solo Q. And hell yeah, it is freaking strong. From what I see on streams PC NA tends to just lack players willing to invest time into magicka gameplay, except msorc. They all nerd on their stamina chars (Im such a stronk warrior!) for years now. And when they play magicka its either magsorc or pure healbot.

Similar for Mag NB, its considered one of the stronger BG setups here on PC EU, for both healing and damage, for about 2 patches now. I don't see any Mag NBs on NA streams, tho.

Agreed on magplar, but magblade?? No. I have played BGs a lot the last year and you rarely see magblade dd's on EU PC. The one that I do see frequently in high MMR, Heresya, is simply an insanely good player who has mastered the class. But even he cheeses on magblade in BGs, using zaan and caluurion. Magblade has some good tools, and I suppose in the right group can be BiS. But it lacks the consistent AoE that magplar and magdens bring. Especially in solo queue without a lot of grouphealing magblade struggles.

Healblade I agree. I have played healblade for a long time now and it has been insanely strong ever since the introduction of healthy offering, but especially now that they got snare and root immunity. This patch they seem to have exploded in quantity though. Like suddenly people started to realize how strong magblade healer actually is. Quite funny to see how long it took people to break out of the "hurr duurrr templar or warden healer only hurr hurr" mentality.

HEY! Didn't you wanna leave?
SHOOO!!!
\(>~<)/
Just kidding. Are you happy with the changes?

Haha, I promise I'm done as far as sorc topic goes Enough salt has been spilt in this thread.

Overall I really like the patch, but I can't say for sure how it will all turn out. I mean, some classes got their abilities nerfed, sorc one of them. But on the other end, resto received some massive changes and there's no telling yet how that will influence overall class balance. I like how streak got buffed in accordance to the shield nerfs though. It puts sorc more into the ranged kiter position, while reducing their ability to facetank people.

Lord-Otto

Koensol wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmph. Warden, both specs, were INCREDIBLY overpowered when Morrowind launched. No projectiles could harm them, no dodge escaped them. And Shalks brought a world of pain. If you're saying magsorc beat magden back then, wow.
Stamsorcs are known to be bad. They had two patches after Hurricane was created, and then got nuked by the nerfhammer to this day. Comparing that to a magsorc isn't a fair comparison.
And yes, magsorcs had their bad times. Before CP got changed in Thieves Guild, although every magicka spec suffered from that. Dark Brotherhood made us near extinct in Cyrodiil. One Tamriel proc meta was so much better for stamina, it wasn't funny. And CwC, while not a leg-breaking patch, did make things harder with the Frag nerf. I agree sorcs have been quite steady since Homestead, especially among magicka classes, but there were some rough times. Don't ignore that because it fits a narrative!

I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka Warden was overpowered in the early days...especially given how rare we/they were. Having played both Magicka Warden and Magicka Sorcerer during that time, I'd say that Sorcs had better killing power against everything that wasn't a dodge roll spammer (getting a little hate-tell nostalgia now...), and it was a pretty significant gap at that. Sure, Warden had some good damage, and I could actually often get more total damage done numbers on Warden than I could on Sorc...but Sorc's burst and ability to get (and secure) kills was significantly better.

And I would absolutely dispute the assertion that Stam Sorcs are bad. I'm not saying they're the #1 most overpowered thing in the game, but they're most certainly not "bad." For the past several years, pretty much any Stamina class has been at least decent. Not necessarily all balanced against each other, mind you, but none have been down where Magicka Necromancer is right now...or even close to that bad IMO.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea - I'm not calling for giant nerfs to Mag Sorcs, and in fact I think the shield changes for 5.1 are probably a bit much, especially for no-CP. But any Sorc who thinks they aren't the overall top dog for offensive Magicka builds in PvP needs to try out some other classes.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been saying Shimmering Shield could use some nerfs, right from the beginning of Morrowind. It, like the previous version of DK Wings, is too much of a hard counter to any build that's forced to rely on projectiles for a significant amount of their damage, while being totally ignorable for some other setups. Things were worse when it was cheap enough, and had enough magicka return, that Stam Wardens were able to spam it non-stop, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

I think magicka warden was strong at launch and not necessarily OP. You have to realize its a non mobile magicka class which is an sitting duck in the battlefield like a magplar making them both free AP right now

Magplar free AP right now?..... That comment right there makes me seriously question how much you actually PvP.... Just stop.

I dare you to play a magplar against actual top players and prove that comment wrong. At least in high mmr bgs(PC NA) there's very few people left playing magplars, and they're all struggling. In open world nobody wants magplars because they don't have mobility. Even for healing, both magdens and magblades are better healers right now.

Magplars are good for 1v1 and pug stomping, the moment you go against a good player they all know you're a 1 trick pony. Timing your Purifying Light explosion with Crescent is pretty much the only way you have of killing someone, the rest of your abilities do little to do dmg. To top it off, they're nerfing barrage by like 30%. Don't even mention the Eclipse change, we all know that's not going live.

On PC EU top MMR mag DMGplar is considered one of the strongest and most played setups currently. Premade and solo Q. And hell yeah, it is freaking strong. From what I see on streams PC NA tends to just lack players willing to invest time into magicka gameplay, except msorc. They all nerd on their stamina chars (Im such a stronk warrior!) for years now. And when they play magicka its either magsorc or pure healbot.

Similar for Mag NB, its considered one of the stronger BG setups here on PC EU, for both healing and damage, for about 2 patches now. I don't see any Mag NBs on NA streams, tho.

Agreed on magplar, but magblade?? No. I have played BGs a lot the last year and you rarely see magblade dd's on EU PC. The one that I do see frequently in high MMR, Heresya, is simply an insanely good player who has mastered the class. But even he cheeses on magblade in BGs, using zaan and caluurion. Magblade has some good tools, and I suppose in the right group can be BiS. But it lacks the consistent AoE that magplar and magdens bring. Especially in solo queue without a lot of grouphealing magblade struggles.

Healblade I agree. I have played healblade for a long time now and it has been insanely strong ever since the introduction of healthy offering, but especially now that they got snare and root immunity. This patch they seem to have exploded in quantity though. Like suddenly people started to realize how strong magblade healer actually is. Quite funny to see how long it took people to break out of the "hurr duurrr templar or warden healer only hurr hurr" mentality.

HEY! Didn't you wanna leave?
SHOOO!!!
\(>~<)/
Just kidding. Are you happy with the changes?

Haha, I promise I'm done as far as sorc topic goes Enough salt has been spilt in this thread.

Overall I really like the patch, but I can't say for sure how it will all turn out. I mean, some classes got their abilities nerfed, sorc one of them. But on the other end, resto received some massive changes and there's no telling yet how that will influence overall class balance. I like how streak got buffed in accordance to the shield nerfs though. It puts sorc more into the ranged kiter position, while reducing their ability to facetank people.

Mhmh, I'm inclined to agree.
The change to Reach messes with the ranged potential, though. This might become a problem. But overall I think non-pets gained a few tools, which I applaud.
Just funny that shieldstacking, pet LoS and Pirate Skelly are still there. xD

oxygen_thief

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Just funny that shieldstacking, pet LoS and Pirate Skelly are still there. xD

its obvious that shields thickness reducing will cause even more shields stacking. the only way to stop it was posted here many times but who cares

Lord-Otto

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Just funny that shieldstacking, pet LoS and Pirate Skelly are still there. xD

its obvious that shields thickness reducing will cause even more shields stacking. the only way to stop it was posted here many times but who cares

Yeah, it's here to stay. Eh, gonna have to see how much healing we need from resto. It's looking good so far...

bardx86

Lord-Otto wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Just funny that shieldstacking, pet LoS and Pirate Skelly are still there. xD

its obvious that shields thickness reducing will cause even more shields stacking. the only way to stop it was posted here many times but who cares

Yeah, it's here to stay. Eh, gonna have to see how much healing we need from resto. It's looking good so far...

The problem is going to be how much resource are going to be needed to just stay alive( shields + heals ) vs other classes. From my test it seems very high and not sustainable.

Insco851

bardx86 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Just funny that shieldstacking, pet LoS and Pirate Skelly are still there. xD

its obvious that shields thickness reducing will cause even more shields stacking. the only way to stop it was posted here many times but who cares

Yeah, it's here to stay. Eh, gonna have to see how much healing we need from resto. It's looking good so far...

The problem is going to be how much resource are going to be needed to just stay alive( shields + heals ) vs other classes. From my test it seems very high and not sustainable.

Have you tried stacking Rapid regen behind a single hardened ward in the pts? Seems similar to what most magblade are running on live. (Though there are kids still running 2 shields)

PhoenixGrey

Lord-Otto wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Just funny that shieldstacking, pet LoS and Pirate Skelly are still there. xD

its obvious that shields thickness reducing will cause even more shields stacking. the only way to stop it was posted here many times but who cares

Yeah, it's here to stay. Eh, gonna have to see how much healing we need from resto. It's looking good so far...

You can get all the healing you want

Good luck sustaining your hardened ward though. I think mag sorc will run into severe sustain issues open world unless you are spamming fury from the back end of a zerg