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The "Balance" of Mag Sorcs
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The cost adjustment to streak does precisely nothing - because the ability on pts now fills two roles instead of one. One is being a melee stun - this directly counteracts the mobility and evasive part of streak.
If you´re using it in both regards you have to streak way more often than the cost increase makes up for.
If i give you more resources, it is a boon.
If i give you a new way to use those resources, that also is a boon.
Arguing that the former is not a boon just because of the latter is silly.
It is like getting a million dollar gift and saying it does precisely nothing because you also got the option to buy a million-dollar yacht.
No. You don't get it.
Streak is used as your only stun and also as your mobility/escape tool.
The sorc stun was flame reach before.
Streak got a cost punishment decrease, but the fact that you use it more often because it is now ur stun doesn't make the overall sustain better.
The stacking cost increase only comes into play when streak is spammed.
You will need to get used to the fact you can not spam hard CC on your opponent every couple of seconds like you are doing now.
2 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The cost adjustment to streak does precisely nothing - because the ability on pts now fills two roles instead of one. One is being a melee stun - this directly counteracts the mobility and evasive part of streak.
If you´re using it in both regards you have to streak way more often than the cost increase makes up for.
If i give you more resources, it is a boon.
If i give you a new way to use those resources, that also is a boon.
Arguing that the former is not a boon just because of the latter is silly.
It is like getting a million dollar gift and saying it does precisely nothing because you also got the option to buy a million-dollar yacht.
No. You don't get it.
Streak is used as your only stun and also as your mobility/escape tool.
The sorc stun was flame reach before.
Streak got a cost punishment decrease, but the fact that you use it more often because it is now ur stun doesn't make the overall sustain better.
The stacking cost increase only comes into play when streak is spammed.
You will need to get used to the fact you can not spam hard CC on your opponent every couple of seconds like you are doing now.
You need to understand that stunning someone every 6-7s is a core mechanic to game.
You cannot kill a half good player without CC him on cooldown. EVERY ONE CC on cooldown and those hwo cannot are trash DD in PvP, just like magden and magcro hwo lack a decent stun.
The fact that streak is used every 6s for stun and that the fatigue last 4s make the mobility role of streak almost always starting with a single fatigue cost.
You start your first escape streak with a 33% cost increase stack (because u stunned someone) where you started escaping with no punishment stack before (because u stunned with flame reach).
2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The cost adjustment to streak does precisely nothing - because the ability on pts now fills two roles instead of one. One is being a melee stun - this directly counteracts the mobility and evasive part of streak.
If you´re using it in both regards you have to streak way more often than the cost increase makes up for.
If i give you more resources, it is a boon.
If i give you a new way to use those resources, that also is a boon.
Arguing that the former is not a boon just because of the latter is silly.
It is like getting a million dollar gift and saying it does precisely nothing because you also got the option to buy a million-dollar yacht.
No. You don't get it.
Streak is used as your only stun and also as your mobility/escape tool.
The sorc stun was flame reach before.
Streak got a cost punishment decrease, but the fact that you use it more often because it is now ur stun doesn't make the overall sustain better.
The stacking cost increase only comes into play when streak is spammed.
You will need to get used to the fact you can not spam hard CC on your opponent every couple of seconds like you are doing now.
You need to understand that stunning someone every 6-7s is a core mechanic to game.
You cannot kill a half good player without CC him on cooldown. EVERY ONE CC on cooldown and those hwo cannot are trash DD in PvP, just like magden and magcro hwo lack a decent stun.
Has it ever crossed your mind that magden/magcro do not have a way to stun every 6-7s like a clockwork because it *isn't* meant to be a "core mechanic of the game"?1 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The cost adjustment to streak does precisely nothing - because the ability on pts now fills two roles instead of one. One is being a melee stun - this directly counteracts the mobility and evasive part of streak.
If you´re using it in both regards you have to streak way more often than the cost increase makes up for.
If i give you more resources, it is a boon.
If i give you a new way to use those resources, that also is a boon.
Arguing that the former is not a boon just because of the latter is silly.
It is like getting a million dollar gift and saying it does precisely nothing because you also got the option to buy a million-dollar yacht.
No. You don't get it.
Streak is used as your only stun and also as your mobility/escape tool.
The sorc stun was flame reach before.
Streak got a cost punishment decrease, but the fact that you use it more often because it is now ur stun doesn't make the overall sustain better.
The stacking cost increase only comes into play when streak is spammed.
You will need to get used to the fact you can not spam hard CC on your opponent every couple of seconds like you are doing now.
You need to understand that stunning someone every 6-7s is a core mechanic to game.
You cannot kill a half good player without CC him on cooldown. EVERY ONE CC on cooldown and those hwo cannot are trash DD in PvP, just like magden and magcro hwo lack a decent stun.
Has it ever crossed your mind that magden/magcro do not have a way to stun every 6-7s like a clockwork because it *isn't* meant to be a "core mechanic of the game"?
Magden and Magcro have a stun, just a very bad one, this is a main reason why they are TRASH.
CC is a core mechanic of this game,there is no way to say the opposite. You can don't like it, but both immunity and CC skill coupled with the effect of a stun proove how important it is.
If you don't CC on cooldown when fighting, then you cannot speak about balance because you don't play at a decent lvl.
3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The cost adjustment to streak does precisely nothing - because the ability on pts now fills two roles instead of one. One is being a melee stun - this directly counteracts the mobility and evasive part of streak.
If you´re using it in both regards you have to streak way more often than the cost increase makes up for.
If i give you more resources, it is a boon.
If i give you a new way to use those resources, that also is a boon.
Arguing that the former is not a boon just because of the latter is silly.
It is like getting a million dollar gift and saying it does precisely nothing because you also got the option to buy a million-dollar yacht.
No. You don't get it.
Streak is used as your only stun and also as your mobility/escape tool.
The sorc stun was flame reach before.
Streak got a cost punishment decrease, but the fact that you use it more often because it is now ur stun doesn't make the overall sustain better.
The stacking cost increase only comes into play when streak is spammed.
You will need to get used to the fact you can not spam hard CC on your opponent every couple of seconds like you are doing now.
You need to understand that stunning someone every 6-7s is a core mechanic to game.
You cannot kill a half good player without CC him on cooldown. EVERY ONE CC on cooldown and those hwo cannot are trash DD in PvP, just like magden and magcro hwo lack a decent stun.
Has it ever crossed your mind that magden/magcro do not have a way to stun every 6-7s like a clockwork because it *isn't* meant to be a "core mechanic of the game"?
Magden and Magcro have a stun, just a very bad one, this is a main reason why they are TRASH.
Or maybe they are the only ones working as intended, and the rest is being carried by overpowered and unintended mechanics of stun-as-part-of-rotation, thinking they are "good".
I mean, look at the patch notes. Reverb bash nerfed as "part of rotation" stun. Fossilize heavy cost increase. Reach stun removed. Why do you think that is?
1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The cost adjustment to streak does precisely nothing - because the ability on pts now fills two roles instead of one. One is being a melee stun - this directly counteracts the mobility and evasive part of streak.
If you´re using it in both regards you have to streak way more often than the cost increase makes up for.
If i give you more resources, it is a boon.
If i give you a new way to use those resources, that also is a boon.
Arguing that the former is not a boon just because of the latter is silly.
It is like getting a million dollar gift and saying it does precisely nothing because you also got the option to buy a million-dollar yacht.
It´s not a boon when it´s only used in that way because something else was taken away.
It´s not a boon if it forces you into a playstyle that directly contradicts it´s other function.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The cost adjustment to streak does precisely nothing - because the ability on pts now fills two roles instead of one. One is being a melee stun - this directly counteracts the mobility and evasive part of streak.
If you´re using it in both regards you have to streak way more often than the cost increase makes up for.
If i give you more resources, it is a boon.
If i give you a new way to use those resources, that also is a boon.
Arguing that the former is not a boon just because of the latter is silly.
It is like getting a million dollar gift and saying it does precisely nothing because you also got the option to buy a million-dollar yacht.
It´s not a boon when it´s only used in that way because something else was taken away.
It´s not a boon if it forces you into a playstyle that directly contradicts it´s other function.
You can still use flame clench for the same purpose, so it was not taken away. Its not like the range is shorter than bolt.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The cost adjustment to streak does precisely nothing - because the ability on pts now fills two roles instead of one. One is being a melee stun - this directly counteracts the mobility and evasive part of streak.
If you´re using it in both regards you have to streak way more often than the cost increase makes up for.
If i give you more resources, it is a boon.
If i give you a new way to use those resources, that also is a boon.
Arguing that the former is not a boon just because of the latter is silly.
It is like getting a million dollar gift and saying it does precisely nothing because you also got the option to buy a million-dollar yacht.
It´s not a boon when it´s only used in that way because something else was taken away.
It´s not a boon if it forces you into a playstyle that directly contradicts it´s other function.
You can still use flame clench for the same purpose, so it was not taken away. Its not like the range is shorter than bolt.
You realize that what you´re saying makes zero sense yes?<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The cost adjustment to streak does precisely nothing - because the ability on pts now fills two roles instead of one. One is being a melee stun - this directly counteracts the mobility and evasive part of streak.
If you´re using it in both regards you have to streak way more often than the cost increase makes up for.
If i give you more resources, it is a boon.
If i give you a new way to use those resources, that also is a boon.
Arguing that the former is not a boon just because of the latter is silly.
It is like getting a million dollar gift and saying it does precisely nothing because you also got the option to buy a million-dollar yacht.
It´s not a boon when it´s only used in that way because something else was taken away.
It´s not a boon if it forces you into a playstyle that directly contradicts it´s other function.
You can still use flame clench for the same purpose, so it was not taken away. Its not like the range is shorter than bolt.
You realize that what you´re saying makes zero sense yes?
You did not understand what i mean. Okay, let me rephrase.
You say that you now have to use bolt escape for CC, because reach CC was removed. I say that while reach CC was removed, clench CC was not. You can only use it at relatively close range, yes, but that is also true for bolt escape CC. So, nothing was taken away that you would *have* to replace with bolt escape CC. You can instead replace it with clench CC.0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Once again twisting logic to extremely absurd levels to fit your argument. Reverb was nerfed because spammable defile on a single target ability was simply broken (I have said this for a long time). Fossilize was nerfed because it was too cheap for how potent it is. It's not hard to see this. It has absolutely nothing to do with being able to stun on cd or not, nor does it mean the warden stun is actually viable because it works the way it does. Claiming warden stun is working as intended because of how clunky/trash it is, is literally a meme of a post.
The cost adjustment to streak does precisely nothing - because the ability on pts now fills two roles instead of one. One is being a melee stun - this directly counteracts the mobility and evasive part of streak.
If you´re using it in both regards you have to streak way more often than the cost increase makes up for.
If i give you more resources, it is a boon.
If i give you a new way to use those resources, that also is a boon.
Arguing that the former is not a boon just because of the latter is silly.
It is like getting a million dollar gift and saying it does precisely nothing because you also got the option to buy a million-dollar yacht.
No. You don't get it.
Streak is used as your only stun and also as your mobility/escape tool.
The sorc stun was flame reach before.
Streak got a cost punishment decrease, but the fact that you use it more often because it is now ur stun doesn't make the overall sustain better.
The stacking cost increase only comes into play when streak is spammed.
You will need to get used to the fact you can not spam hard CC on your opponent every couple of seconds like you are doing now.
You need to understand that stunning someone every 6-7s is a core mechanic to game.
You cannot kill a half good player without CC him on cooldown. EVERY ONE CC on cooldown and those hwo cannot are trash DD in PvP, just like magden and magcro hwo lack a decent stun.
Has it ever crossed your mind that magden/magcro do not have a way to stun every 6-7s like a clockwork because it *isn't* meant to be a "core mechanic of the game"?
Magden and Magcro have a stun, just a very bad one, this is a main reason why they are TRASH.
Or maybe they are the only ones working as intended, and the rest is being carried by overpowered and unintended mechanics of stun-as-part-of-rotation, thinking they are "good".
I mean, look at the patch notes. Reverb bash nerfed as "part of rotation" stun. Fossilize heavy cost increase. Reach stun removed. Why do you think that is?1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Once again twisting logic to extremely absurd levels to fit your argument. Reverb was nerfed because spammable defile on a single target ability was simply broken (I have said this for a long time).
The cost adjustment to streak does precisely nothing - because the ability on pts now fills two roles instead of one. One is being a melee stun - this directly counteracts the mobility and evasive part of streak.
If you´re using it in both regards you have to streak way more often than the cost increase makes up for.
If i give you more resources, it is a boon.
If i give you a new way to use those resources, that also is a boon.
Arguing that the former is not a boon just because of the latter is silly.
It is like getting a million dollar gift and saying it does precisely nothing because you also got the option to buy a million-dollar yacht.
No. You don't get it.
Streak is used as your only stun and also as your mobility/escape tool.
The sorc stun was flame reach before.
Streak got a cost punishment decrease, but the fact that you use it more often because it is now ur stun doesn't make the overall sustain better.
The stacking cost increase only comes into play when streak is spammed.
You will need to get used to the fact you can not spam hard CC on your opponent every couple of seconds like you are doing now.
You need to understand that stunning someone every 6-7s is a core mechanic to game.
You cannot kill a half good player without CC him on cooldown. EVERY ONE CC on cooldown and those hwo cannot are trash DD in PvP, just like magden and magcro hwo lack a decent stun.
Has it ever crossed your mind that magden/magcro do not have a way to stun every 6-7s like a clockwork because it *isn't* meant to be a "core mechanic of the game"?
Magden and Magcro have a stun, just a very bad one, this is a main reason why they are TRASH.
Or maybe they are the only ones working as intended, and the rest is being carried by overpowered and unintended mechanics of stun-as-part-of-rotation, thinking they are "good".
I mean, look at the patch notes. Reverb bash nerfed as "part of rotation" stun. Fossilize heavy cost increase. Reach stun removed. Why do you think that is?
Except that is not the only thing that changed. The damage of reverb was also split in half, with the second half only taking effect when the CC ends, and does not apply if the target was CC immune. Effectively making it unsuitable as a part of static rotation, because it loses half if its damage when used on CC immune targets.Fossilize was nerfed because it was too cheap for how potent it is. It's not hard to see this. It has absolutely nothing to do with being able to stun on cd or not
...which has exactly the effect of not being able to be used on CD as a part of standard rotation. Just what i was saying., nor does it mean the warden stun is actually viable because it works the way it does. Claiming warden stun is working as intended because of how clunky/trash it is, is literally a meme of a post.
Maybe hard CC was not meant to be braindead-easy to use?1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Who even cared even one bit about reverb damage?? That nerf was literally pointless and the damage won't be missed at all lmao. And what are you even on about man with this static rotation thing? Cc was always used to setup burst and to drain stam, and still will be used on cd. You are the one under the illusion that this will now change because of these nerfs.
Once again twisting logic to extremely absurd levels to fit your argument. Reverb was nerfed because spammable defile on a single target ability was simply broken (I have said this for a long time).
The cost adjustment to streak does precisely nothing - because the ability on pts now fills two roles instead of one. One is being a melee stun - this directly counteracts the mobility and evasive part of streak.
If you´re using it in both regards you have to streak way more often than the cost increase makes up for.
If i give you more resources, it is a boon.
If i give you a new way to use those resources, that also is a boon.
Arguing that the former is not a boon just because of the latter is silly.
It is like getting a million dollar gift and saying it does precisely nothing because you also got the option to buy a million-dollar yacht.
No. You don't get it.
Streak is used as your only stun and also as your mobility/escape tool.
The sorc stun was flame reach before.
Streak got a cost punishment decrease, but the fact that you use it more often because it is now ur stun doesn't make the overall sustain better.
The stacking cost increase only comes into play when streak is spammed.
You will need to get used to the fact you can not spam hard CC on your opponent every couple of seconds like you are doing now.
You need to understand that stunning someone every 6-7s is a core mechanic to game.
You cannot kill a half good player without CC him on cooldown. EVERY ONE CC on cooldown and those hwo cannot are trash DD in PvP, just like magden and magcro hwo lack a decent stun.
Has it ever crossed your mind that magden/magcro do not have a way to stun every 6-7s like a clockwork because it *isn't* meant to be a "core mechanic of the game"?
Magden and Magcro have a stun, just a very bad one, this is a main reason why they are TRASH.
Or maybe they are the only ones working as intended, and the rest is being carried by overpowered and unintended mechanics of stun-as-part-of-rotation, thinking they are "good".
I mean, look at the patch notes. Reverb bash nerfed as "part of rotation" stun. Fossilize heavy cost increase. Reach stun removed. Why do you think that is?
Except that is not the only thing that changed. The damage of reverb was also split in half, with the second half only taking effect when the CC ends, and does not apply if the target was CC immune. Effectively making it unsuitable as a part of static rotation, because it loses half if its damage when used on CC immune targets.Fossilize was nerfed because it was too cheap for how potent it is. It's not hard to see this. It has absolutely nothing to do with being able to stun on cd or not
...which has exactly the effect of not being able to be used on CD as a part of standard rotation. Just what i was saying., nor does it mean the warden stun is actually viable because it works the way it does. Claiming warden stun is working as intended because of how clunky/trash it is, is literally a meme of a post.
Maybe hard CC was not meant to be braindead-easy to use?
I will say that max range cc should come with trade offs or offer little less than just cc, but they should be functional. Warden stun is laughably bad, and not functional. Saying it is working as intended is just ignorant and twisting logic to fit your argument. By all means limit ranged cc in the amount of damage/utility they provide, but making them a wasted slot is not the way to go. No one likes it when their abilities don't work. Same reason why merciless resolve delay was removed. The delay made the ability lose its functionality.Edited by Koensol on July 27, 2019 6:40PM1 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The cost adjustment to streak does precisely nothing - because the ability on pts now fills two roles instead of one. One is being a melee stun - this directly counteracts the mobility and evasive part of streak.
If you´re using it in both regards you have to streak way more often than the cost increase makes up for.
If i give you more resources, it is a boon.
If i give you a new way to use those resources, that also is a boon.
Arguing that the former is not a boon just because of the latter is silly.
It is like getting a million dollar gift and saying it does precisely nothing because you also got the option to buy a million-dollar yacht.
It´s not a boon when it´s only used in that way because something else was taken away.
It´s not a boon if it forces you into a playstyle that directly contradicts it´s other function.
You can still use flame clench for the same purpose, so it was not taken away. Its not like the range is shorter than bolt.
You realize that what you´re saying makes zero sense yes?
You did not understand what i mean. Okay, let me rephrase.
You say that you now have to use bolt escape for CC, because reach CC was removed. I say that while reach CC was removed, clench CC was not. You can only use it at relatively close range, yes, but that is also true for bolt escape CC. So, nothing was taken away that you would *have* to replace with bolt escape CC. You can instead replace it with clench CC.
You still don't understand sorc.
Sorc have a lot of trouble with bar space, the goal is to have the most effect in the less skills.
Clench was used because it made 2 things : being a Spammable + being stun in a one skill.
Clench now is a DoT + a stun in short range. This make it not appealing for sorc because :
-It doesn't increase your burst when you stun.
- Others dots does more things in once skill like structured entropy being a max range DoT + major sorcery + 2% Magicka + 2% mag regen + 40% more damage on the next attack + a decent HoT. Soul trap is also better than clench.
- Streak now does 2 things : being a better stun than clench (unblockable) while having a similar range + being an escape tool.
There is no reason to slot clench when other dots does more things and when Streak stun better.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Who even cared even one bit about reverb damage??
ZOS did, apparently.That nerf was literally pointless and the damage won't be missed at all lmao.
Nonetheless, it illustrates my point: ZOS is systematically nerfing hard CC that is so easy to use that people use it as a part of standard rotation, be it reverb or reach. Therefore, it seems they do not want CC to be easily used, and instead opt for CC that requires some thought.
What two classes were added last? That's right, warden and necro. See the trend?
0 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭Who even cared even one bit about reverb damage??
ZOS did, apparently.That nerf was literally pointless and the damage won't be missed at all lmao.
Nonetheless, it illustrates my point: ZOS is systematically nerfing hard CC that is so easy to use that people use it as a part of standard rotation, be it reverb or reach. Therefore, it seems they do not want CC to be easily used, and instead opt for CC that requires some thought.
What two classes were added last? That's right, warden and necro. See the trend?
SIgh. You ruin your own point. Warden came with a baked in stun on fissure. But it got removed by forum cry babies at the same time they removed stun from frags. Necro likewise has a class stun. Every class has a stun. Its not by accident.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Who even cared even one bit about reverb damage??
ZOS did, apparently.That nerf was literally pointless and the damage won't be missed at all lmao.
Nonetheless, it illustrates my point: ZOS is systematically nerfing hard CC that is so easy to use that people use it as a part of standard rotation, be it reverb or reach. Therefore, it seems they do not want CC to be easily used, and instead opt for CC that requires some thought.
What two classes were added last? That's right, warden and necro. See the trend?
SIgh. You ruin your own point. Warden came with a baked in stun on fissure. But it got removed by forum cry babies at the same time they removed stun from frags. Necro likewise has a class stun. Every class has a stun. Its not by accident.
<shrug>
If anything, it just adds to the list of CC being nerfed/removed, demonstrating the direction ZOS is taking with crowd control.
And sure, necro has a "stun" (a fear, actually), but in the form of delayed ground effect - not exactly something you could use to CC an enemy over and over every 7 seconds like clockwork. I believe this is where all CC will move in the future: detach it from rotation abilities, reduce range, increase cost, make it avoidable by opponents paying attention, etc. etc.Edited by Sharee on July 27, 2019 9:36PM0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Who even cared even one bit about reverb damage??
ZOS did, apparently.That nerf was literally pointless and the damage won't be missed at all lmao.
Nonetheless, it illustrates my point: ZOS is systematically nerfing hard CC that is so easy to use that people use it as a part of standard rotation, be it reverb or reach. Therefore, it seems they do not want CC to be easily used, and instead opt for CC that requires some thought.
What two classes were added last? That's right, warden and necro. See the trend?
SIgh. You ruin your own point. Warden came with a baked in stun on fissure. But it got removed by forum cry babies at the same time they removed stun from frags. Necro likewise has a class stun. Every class has a stun. Its not by accident.
<shrug>
If anything, it just adds to the list of CC being nerfed/removed, demonstrating the direction ZOS is taking with crowd control.
And sure, necro has a "stun" (a fear, actually), but in the form of delayed ground effect - not exactly something you could use to CC an enemy over and over every 7 seconds like clockwork. I believe this is where all CC will move in the future: detach it from rotation abilities, reduce range, increase cost, make it avoidable by opponents paying attention, etc. etc.
STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION.
Reverb bash deal about the same damage than before BEFORE THE ENNEMY break the CC. When he break, it take the other damage (the same than live power bash).
REVERB DEAL TWICE THE DAMAGE THAN ON Live.
And ZoS just gave an IMPROVED VERIOB OF FEAR, AoE, cheap, accessible to All STAM characters, unblockable, Undodgeable, giving tons of buffs.
STOP IMAGINATING things.0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Who even cared even one bit about reverb damage??
ZOS did, apparently.That nerf was literally pointless and the damage won't be missed at all lmao.
Nonetheless, it illustrates my point: ZOS is systematically nerfing hard CC that is so easy to use that people use it as a part of standard rotation, be it reverb or reach. Therefore, it seems they do not want CC to be easily used, and instead opt for CC that requires some thought.
What two classes were added last? That's right, warden and necro. See the trend?
SIgh. You ruin your own point. Warden came with a baked in stun on fissure. But it got removed by forum cry babies at the same time they removed stun from frags. Necro likewise has a class stun. Every class has a stun. Its not by accident.
<shrug>
If anything, it just adds to the list of CC being nerfed/removed, demonstrating the direction ZOS is taking with crowd control.
And sure, necro has a "stun" (a fear, actually), but in the form of delayed ground effect - not exactly something you could use to CC an enemy over and over every 7 seconds like clockwork. I believe this is where all CC will move in the future: detach it from rotation abilities, reduce range, increase cost, make it avoidable by opponents paying attention, etc. etc.
STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION.
Reverb bash deal about the same damage than before BEFORE THE ENNEMY break the CC. When he break, it take the other damage (the same than live power bash).
REVERB DEAL TWICE THE DAMAGE THAN ON Live.
And ZoS just gave an IMPROVED VERIOB OF FEAR, AoE, cheap, accessible to All STAM characters, unblockable, Undodgeable, giving tons of buffs.
STOP IMAGINATING things.
Reverberating Bash (morph):
This morph retains the stun, with a max duration of 3 seconds, but it no longer applies Major Defile to the target.
The initial hit damage is now halved, and it will deal the other half of the damage when the stun ends. If the target is CC immune, it will not gain the other half of the damage.
OMG PLEASE L2R.
Non morphed ability got buffed by almost 100% aka the double of live reverb damage.
That old reverb damage x2 is halved = the initial damage of live reverb. THE OTHER HALF (=reverb live damage) will be deal when CC break/stun end.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭oops. you were right, sorry. The base damage was indeed doubled.
Still, the design of the CC morph is such that it discourages spamming it, because if you use it on a CC-immune enemy, you lose half the damage (which was my original point).Edited by Sharee on July 27, 2019 10:24PM0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
That still doesn't mean cc won't be used on cd. It will still be, as it has always been done. Also, there is no trend. Just you falling into confirmation bias. I suppose you failed to see fear being buffed to 6 targets from 2? New fighters guild fear? New templar bubble? Doesn't that make them easier to use?Who even cared even one bit about reverb damage??
ZOS did, apparently.That nerf was literally pointless and the damage won't be missed at all lmao.
Nonetheless, it illustrates my point: ZOS is systematically nerfing hard CC that is so easy to use that people use it as a part of standard rotation, be it reverb or reach. Therefore, it seems they do not want CC to be easily used, and instead opt for CC that requires some thought.
What two classes were added last? That's right, warden and necro. See the trend?
You are right about one thing, which is that cc's (among other abilities) are being balanced in overall strength and cost. Some were nerfed, but others buffed. Similar to how they balance dots and Aoe across the board. That was the purpose. So stop trying to attach this second meaning to it, where you claim cc's aren't supposed to be used in a standard rotation because ZOS changed how one or two cc's work. You are just cherry picking examples to fit your argument. Cc always will be used on cd. Any semi competent player will do it. Just some of them require closer range now or have lost some overall strength/utility.Edited by Koensol on July 27, 2019 10:32PM1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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That still doesn't mean cc won't be used on cd. It will still be, as it has always been done. Also, there is no trend. Just you falling into confirmation bias. I suppose you failed to see fear being buffed to 6 targets from 2? New fighters guild fear? New templar bubble? Doesn't that make them easier to use?Who even cared even one bit about reverb damage??
ZOS did, apparently.That nerf was literally pointless and the damage won't be missed at all lmao.
Nonetheless, it illustrates my point: ZOS is systematically nerfing hard CC that is so easy to use that people use it as a part of standard rotation, be it reverb or reach. Therefore, it seems they do not want CC to be easily used, and instead opt for CC that requires some thought.
What two classes were added last? That's right, warden and necro. See the trend?
You are right about one thing, which is that cc's (among other abilities) are being balanced in overall strength and cost. Some were nerfed, but others buffed. Similar to how they balance dots and Aoe across the board. That was the purpose. So stop trying to attach this second meaning to it, where you claim cc's aren't supposed to be used in a standard rotation because ZOS changed how one or two cc's work. You are just cherry picking examples to fit your argument. Cc always will be used on cd. Any semi competent player will do it. Just some of them require closer range now or have lost some overall strength/utility.
Of course players will use CC as often as they can. What i am opposing here is the claim that ZOS intends for players to have to break free every 7 seconds, always, without fault, and thus removing the stun from reach is a mistake, because now sorcs can not make enemies break free every 7 seconds, without even thinking, and they need to, because that is a "core mechanic".
Core mechanic my behind. Tell that to my magicka necro with his 2-second delayed ground-based fear with a big red circle for advanced warning.0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭oops. you were right, sorry. The base damage was indeed doubled.
Still, the design of the CC morph is such that it discourages spamming it, because if you use it on a CC-immune enemy, you lose half the damage (which was my original point).
No one EVER spam CC when immunity.
CC is spammed on cooldown that's mean you CC your ennemy every 6s.
If reverb was sometimes refresh before immunity it was to reapply MAJOR DEFILE, now it's gone.
The only CC that can be spammed is Dizzy stun, because it's a spammable.
If someone spam CC on you when you are immune, YOU FOUND A FREE KILL and should be happy than a noob waste his time with CC instead of setting DoT and burst.
0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭oops. you were right, sorry. The base damage was indeed doubled.
Still, the design of the CC morph is such that it discourages spamming it, because if you use it on a CC-immune enemy, you lose half the damage (which was my original point).
No one EVER spam CC when immunity.
CC is spammed on cooldown that's mean you CC your ennemy every 6s.
If reverb was sometimes refresh before immunity it was to reapply MAJOR DEFILE, now it's gone.
The only CC that can be spammed is Dizzy stun, because it's a spammable.
If someone spam CC on you when you are immune, YOU FOUND A FREE KILL and should be happy than a noob waste his time with CC instead of setting DoT and burst.
People will happily spam CC on you immunity or not when the ability does high damage as well. See: fiery doughnuts today.3 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭oops. you were right, sorry. The base damage was indeed doubled.
Still, the design of the CC morph is such that it discourages spamming it, because if you use it on a CC-immune enemy, you lose half the damage (which was my original point).
No one EVER spam CC when immunity.
CC is spammed on cooldown that's mean you CC your ennemy every 6s.
If reverb was sometimes refresh before immunity it was to reapply MAJOR DEFILE, now it's gone.
The only CC that can be spammed is Dizzy stun, because it's a spammable.
If someone spam CC on you when you are immune, YOU FOUND A FREE KILL and should be happy than a noob waste his time with CC instead of setting DoT and burst.
People will happily spam CC on you immunity or not when the ability does high damage as well. See: fiery doughnuts today.
Because it's a spammable, like Dizzying. The CC there is irrelevant for this example. Compare it to Fear instead.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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The cost adjustment to streak does precisely nothing - because the ability on pts now fills two roles instead of one. One is being a melee stun - this directly counteracts the mobility and evasive part of streak.
If you´re using it in both regards you have to streak way more often than the cost increase makes up for.
If i give you more resources, it is a boon.
If i give you a new way to use those resources, that also is a boon.
Arguing that the former is not a boon just because of the latter is silly.
It is like getting a million dollar gift and saying it does precisely nothing because you also got the option to buy a million-dollar yacht.
It´s not a boon when it´s only used in that way because something else was taken away.
It´s not a boon if it forces you into a playstyle that directly contradicts it´s other function.
You can still use flame clench for the same purpose, so it was not taken away. Its not like the range is shorter than bolt.
You realize that what you´re saying makes zero sense yes?
You did not understand what i mean. Okay, let me rephrase.
You say that you now have to use bolt escape for CC, because reach CC was removed. I say that while reach CC was removed, clench CC was not. You can only use it at relatively close range, yes, but that is also true for bolt escape CC. So, nothing was taken away that you would *have* to replace with bolt escape CC. You can instead replace it with clench CC.
No.
I understand precisely what you meant. It just makes no sense.
Why would I replace a good 15m cc with a worse one - while I slot the good one either way.
You suggest I slot two abilities to do the same thing - one of those being worse an every way than the other and can’t see that what you say is hysterical?
Also the function that was taken away i talked about was having a ranged cc and anytimer in one slot with streak being the only cc option after not costing you barspace.
So yeah. You don’t understand and what you say makes no sense because of that.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The cost adjustment to streak does precisely nothing - because the ability on pts now fills two roles instead of one. One is being a melee stun - this directly counteracts the mobility and evasive part of streak.
If you´re using it in both regards you have to streak way more often than the cost increase makes up for.
If i give you more resources, it is a boon.
If i give you a new way to use those resources, that also is a boon.
Arguing that the former is not a boon just because of the latter is silly.
It is like getting a million dollar gift and saying it does precisely nothing because you also got the option to buy a million-dollar yacht.
It´s not a boon when it´s only used in that way because something else was taken away.
It´s not a boon if it forces you into a playstyle that directly contradicts it´s other function.
You can still use flame clench for the same purpose, so it was not taken away. Its not like the range is shorter than bolt.
You realize that what you´re saying makes zero sense yes?
You did not understand what i mean. Okay, let me rephrase.
You say that you now have to use bolt escape for CC, because reach CC was removed. I say that while reach CC was removed, clench CC was not. You can only use it at relatively close range, yes, but that is also true for bolt escape CC. So, nothing was taken away that you would *have* to replace with bolt escape CC. You can instead replace it with clench CC.
No.
I understand precisely what you meant. It just makes no sense.
Why would I replace a good 15m cc with a worse one - while I slot the good one either way.
You suggest I slot two abilities to do the same thing - one of those being worse an every way than the other and can’t see that what you say is hysterical?
Also the function that was taken away i talked about was having a ranged cc and anytimer in one slot with streak being the only cc option after not costing you barspace.
So yeah. You don’t understand and what you say makes no sense because of that.
Look. You can still keep using clench, like you do now on live and in this case the stacking cost reduction on streak increases your mobility, at the cost of using a slot for clench.
OR, you can drop clench, save a slot, and use bolt for both mobility and CC, which you can do thanks to the cost reduction on streak.
In both cases, the cost reduction on streak is useful. It does not, as you said, "do precisely nothing". Whether you go with the former or the latter, it is the stacking cost reduction that gives you those options.0 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭Removing reach as a spammable was super healthy for the game period. Not sure if the range nerf was necessary as it probably would have just been better to change master staff to increase dot tick damage instead initial damage to remove the spammable nature but keep the utility. Now maybe some compensation needs to happen but probably not for sorc. What no one seems to want to admit is that sorc lacks bar space because they get to slot 2 high damage burst skills in the form of curse and frags and to a lesser extent mages wrath. Every other class only gets one. That is the tradeoff sorc makes.
CC on a spammable is just bad design. Dizzy honestly probably needs a rework as I find it better to slot on my brawler stamblade than surprise attack even now on live. The two morphs probably need to be further divided similar to the knew reverb bash changes.
So sorc having access to so many good skills that bar space is an issue isn't necessarily a weakness. It's much better than not having enough skills that offer much value to fill your bars. As honestly sorc should have less survivability for the reason I pointed out of them having access to so much burst, including delayed burst. Reach spam offered too much to sorcs.
Inb4 but stam still better. Stam being better has little to do with skills and more to do with the fact that stam synergizes better with virtually all defensive mechanics in the game (block, dodge, breakfree) and shields nature of being able to use them preemptively makes them too hard to balance given the emphasis of burst windows. Too powerful they can be popped early and give too big of an offensive window for the shield user but made too weak it then becomes more efficient to slot a different skill like a burst heal. Magicka needs to be moved away from shields as a primary form defense likely with the exception of sorc and hardened ward since its part of their class identity but with a rework. Probably very powerful but super expensive so it isn't spamable but provides an oh *** button.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The lack of bar space comes from our defenses. It requires three shields or two shields and two pet slots to have a solid defense. Block and dodge require no slot whatsoever. That's the problem right there.1 -
stritzi✭✭✭The lack of bar space comes from our defenses. It requires three shields or two shields and two pet slots to have a solid defense. Block and dodge require no slot whatsoever. That's the problem right there.
The Problem is that you sorcs are used to be nearly invincible, and to keep this state you create bar space problems by slotting a ridiculous amount of defense skills. Grow a pair and get in line with the other mag classes you spoiled brats.
EDIT: i mean three shields come on, lolEdited by stritzi on August 1, 2019 7:08AM4