The "Balance" of Mag Sorcs

bardx86

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Necro+Alfiq lands somewhere around 15k I was told. Obviously need a pet for necro or shadowrend

6.5 28k magicka 24k health

This! A 6.5K is insufficient in BG's under the current meta. I don't run pets and I shouldn't have to be competitive. Petless Sorcs are in a bad spot as the sorc defensive tool kit sucks. I wish they would just nerf the *** out of pets and give use a real heal and bump harden ward a bit in BG's.

ZarkingFrued

Can we just delete pets- a sorc

MaxJrFTW

bardx86 wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Necro+Alfiq lands somewhere around 15k I was told. Obviously need a pet for necro or shadowrend

6.5 28k magicka 24k health

This! A 6.5K is insufficient in BG's under the current meta. I don't run pets and I shouldn't have to be competitive. Petless Sorcs are in a bad spot as the sorc defensive tool kit sucks. I wish they would just nerf the *** out of pets and give use a real heal and bump harden ward a bit in BG's.

L2p issue. People don't like honesty, but that's clearly the problem here.

bardx86

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Necro+Alfiq lands somewhere around 15k I was told. Obviously need a pet for necro or shadowrend

6.5 28k magicka 24k health

This! A 6.5K is insufficient in BG's under the current meta. I don't run pets and I shouldn't have to be competitive. Petless Sorcs are in a bad spot as the sorc defensive tool kit sucks. I wish they would just nerf the *** out of pets and give use a real heal and bump harden ward a bit in BG's.

L2p issue. People don't like honesty, but that's clearly the problem here.

Ya that's it, very constructive.

Koensol

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

It's really just the pets & streak.

The pets should function much more closely to necro pets instead of being this persistant summon doing constant damage and taking 5% AOE damage.

Streak needs to have the cost dramatically lowered and have charges. 1 charge per 10 seconds instead of the scaling cost. Hitting 3 or more targets should provide a charge back. Gives solo 1vX Sorc much more space to work with while putting Streak runners into the ground and punishing them for outright running.

Other than some tweaking to Master's Destro, I don't really see any fundamental overperforming issues with magsorc. It has a lot of underperforming values that need to be addressed as well.

I think streak should not have a stacking cost at all. Remove the resistance buff on shields and return them back to how they were. Give back frags their cc.

Fixing mag sorc is as simple as reverting a bunch of stuff. No need to redesign something which was never broken in the first place.

Honestly, this is partly why sorcs on the forums get so much hate. Unrealistic posts like this. There are also those in this thread that are capable of providing reasonable arguments, but they are overshadowed by people like you who cant seem to look at something objectively for once and are just scared to death they will have to actually l2p in order to kill people and survive.

Uncapped streak basically means you will never catch a magsorc if he wants to run. Just like the old days. Is that what you want? To never die? Then please give DKs back permareflect from wings, give templar BoL back that burst heals 3 targets with major mending from ritual, give NB back 50 ult incap with defile and stun with purge on dark cloak.... I sometimes get the feeling some of you just want to have everything available to you. Just like the ridiculous nonsense that it is "unfair" how pirate skeleton doesn't proc through shields. Get off your high horse, some sets just synergize better with some classes. Deal with it. Oh wait there is more! Frags cc back. Sure but lets add a cc on merciless resolve as well then. See how you'd like that

Sharee

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Tell me how it is easier for sorc to be garbage in group than other classes? I gave you examples, but got none in return. If you ask me, it is a lot easier to be hot garbage on medium stamblade because they die in 2 hits and dont offer any group utility if played the rolly polly way. Or what about the magdk with 0 group heals slotted?

Why would a magDK have 0 group heals slotted - that´s a debateable build choice.
Medium stamblade i agree - they have no place in 4v4v4 brawls with lots of ground aoe flying around.

Why is it easier for sorc to be *** in a group setting than other classes (and by other classes i mean heavy stam, magden, magplar and some magDK builds)?
They´re easier to shut down by a competent enemy group/players. This goes for offense and defense - as those are split entirely for sorc. Pressuring an enemy sorc if done right when not outright killing them will remove any offense of them from the fight.
They´re harder to support by their own group due to their defense mechanism being non scaling + being a class with litte healing synergy.

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Lol @Derra "they have to work" come play magnb with me buddy. Let's build some mercy stacks together. Lol "work" god I almost pee'd myself

Magblade is hot garbage this patch due to sustain issues regardless of what you do with it - except if you enjoy wasting everyones time by trolling them.

There are plenty of magdk's running around in BGs ending up with 0 grouphealing. Coagulating blood, embers, and powerlash provide enough healing to stay alive and some choose to run harness.

I can see your argument for shutting down into shield spam, but fail to see how this is any different for say a magplar. If magplar is pushed to defense, they are on their backbar and thats it. Sometimes magdk has the same problem, because they lack consistent rolling hots that stam has for example. Magicka classes in general are easier to lock down. Sorc however can streak away which they often do. People won't be chasing you in BGs like zerglings do in cyrodiil, because it is a waste of time. Guess which class regularly ends up with least deaths? Stamsorc and magsorc.

Ya but the big difference is the Magplar can handle several folks beating on them keeping them busy in the process, a Sorc can not. Sorcs defensive set isn't sufficient in this current healing meta. Healing > Shield by like 10 times right now. Steaking away is 50/50 at best as the skill is too slow and you get stun most of the time. 1 stun = dead Sorc these days. Look I'm not says other classes are much better off I'm just saying the direction of the game sucks and high MMR BG's suck for sorcs.

It's really hard to take these posts seriously. Shielding is worse than healing? Shields aren't subject to defiles, they eat status effects, and they keep you out of execute range. Effectively increasing your EHP while making most of that hp immune to defiles is by far the best way to mitigate damage for players without a sword and shield, so what do you think happens when you add a sword and shield to those players who can practically double their EHP?

Streak is the best mobility skill in the game besides maybe cloak. Come on. Do you know what other classes would give to have something as powerful as streak?

Completely the opposite.
Shields are not affected by Mending, Vitality and the healing CPs. Rather, they are capped, but still affected by shield damage CP.
Heals absolutely take you out of execute range. Shields will keep you there, once brought to low hp. Why do you think every sorc used to run Healing Ward and now slots a healing pet? Because shields keep you out of execute range 24/7? Not quite.
What happens when you add a sword and board to shields? Nothing. Can't mitigate shield damage. It's the damage that inevitably bleeds through, which the board is used for. If shields were as impenetrable as you believe, there would be no need for S&B, everyone would be on resto or even a second destro.

Not to mention that shields can't crit while heals can, which makes a huge difference.

If shields have a cap, and it is possible to reach that cap without a crit, then it doesn't matter that they can't crit, it makes no difference.

Derra

Insco851 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

show me a competitive build that has 11k harden ward? non pet sorc.

Necro+Alfiq lands somewhere around 15k I was told. Obviously need a pet for necro or shadowrend

If i put on necro + alfiq and put a reasonable amount in bastion (12% - after that you lose effective shield strengh bc you give up too much mitigation) i reach 52k magica and 13.6k hardened ward.

So consider me doubtful when anyone speaks about a working setup (ofc you can put magelight and bound armor on your shieldbar for the sake of it) 15k shield on a build that does not involve imperial physique and carrying 10k+ telvar in IC.

Realistic builds should be more along the lines of 10.5 to 12k hardened since the ability got fixed.

Waffennacht

Derra wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

show me a competitive build that has 11k harden ward? non pet sorc.

Necro+Alfiq lands somewhere around 15k I was told. Obviously need a pet for necro or shadowrend

If i put on necro + alfiq and put a reasonable amount in bastion (12% - after that you lose effective shield strengh bc you give up too much mitigation) i reach 52k magica and 13.6k hardened ward.

So consider me doubtful when anyone speaks about a working setup (ofc you can put magelight and bound armor on your shieldbar for the sake of it) 15k shield on a build that does not involve imperial physique and carrying 10k+ telvar in IC.

Realistic builds should be more along the lines of 10.5 to 12k hardened since the ability got fixed.

And a big reason I prefer no CP. A 12k shield is freaking massive in PvP

PhoenixGrey

Koensol wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

It's really just the pets & streak.

The pets should function much more closely to necro pets instead of being this persistant summon doing constant damage and taking 5% AOE damage.

Streak needs to have the cost dramatically lowered and have charges. 1 charge per 10 seconds instead of the scaling cost. Hitting 3 or more targets should provide a charge back. Gives solo 1vX Sorc much more space to work with while putting Streak runners into the ground and punishing them for outright running.

Other than some tweaking to Master's Destro, I don't really see any fundamental overperforming issues with magsorc. It has a lot of underperforming values that need to be addressed as well.

I think streak should not have a stacking cost at all. Remove the resistance buff on shields and return them back to how they were. Give back frags their cc.

Fixing mag sorc is as simple as reverting a bunch of stuff. No need to redesign something which was never broken in the first place.

Then please give DKs back permareflect from wings, give templar BoL back that burst heals 3 targets with major mending from ritual, give NB back 50 ult incap with defile and stun with purge on dark cloak.... I sometimes get the feeling some of you just want to have everything available to you. Just like the ridiculous nonsense that it is "unfair" how pirate skeleton doesn't proc through shields.

I honestly would not mind giving all classes back their identity. Bring back dynamic ultigen as well.

This game used to be so much fun before and it keeps going backwards patch after patch.

The warden class is absolutely destroyed in the name of balance.
necro is another one which is useless. The nerf train never stops does it?

Seraphayel

Imryll wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

mook-eb16_ESO wrote: »

why is this thread a thing in a stamina dominated meta?

From a PvE perspective: no reason for this thread to exist, as you pointed out, Stam meta.

From a PvP perspective: Magsorcs are incredibly strong, by far the strongest Magicka class and overall one of the best PvP builds and due to their incredible burst + reactive execute very hard to counter. Plus they have one of the best PvP ultimates (Negate) and very strong self-heals/shields. Plus pets in PvE are incredibly annoying and are a massive pita due to the really bad targeting system this game has, e.g. alone due to their size they act as some kind of secondary defense on top.

Stamina builds are in general stronger than magicka ones in PvP. Sorc is the one notable exception.
Did you know that pet sorcs actually don't use Fury? You gotta pay the two Twilight slots somehow, and there's the big sacrifice. Something that certain people here like to ignore...

I really don’t see the sacrifice at all. Twilight has an amazing heal, is very helpful for LoS and hiding behind it due to bad targeting, it deals a good amount of damage AND it’s always active and fully autonomic, e.g. you have to summon it once and it does all the stuff without you (except the healing).

I know that Stamina builds are generally stronger than Magicka builds but I’d still put Sorcerer at least on par.

Two slots and the good chance that your healing spell has wandered off and gotten itself killed when you urgently need its services. The healing spell may be instant cast, but resummoning the pet in order to ask it to heal you heal isn't.

This barely happens, if at all. Yes, sometimes Twilight does very weird things but that happens to every class. Doesn’t make the skill any worse honestly, it’s still overloaded and overperforming (yes, I own a Sorc myself and mostly play BGs).

Seraphayel

thankyourat wrote: »

The only viable way that I can see mag sorc being nerfed while still being allowed to keep pets is to make shields into a major/minor system. Hardened and annulment will be major shields and healing ward and other small shields will be minor shields. This would make it to where sorcs couldn’t stack two major shields. The class would still have plenty of survivability but wouldn’t be as toxic to fight against.

This is honestly a very interesting idea, splitting shields into Minor / Major.

Derra

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

show me a competitive build that has 11k harden ward? non pet sorc.

Necro+Alfiq lands somewhere around 15k I was told. Obviously need a pet for necro or shadowrend

If i put on necro + alfiq and put a reasonable amount in bastion (12% - after that you lose effective shield strengh bc you give up too much mitigation) i reach 52k magica and 13.6k hardened ward.

So consider me doubtful when anyone speaks about a working setup (ofc you can put magelight and bound armor on your shieldbar for the sake of it) 15k shield on a build that does not involve imperial physique and carrying 10k+ telvar in IC.

Realistic builds should be more along the lines of 10.5 to 12k hardened since the ability got fixed.

And a big reason I prefer no CP. A 12k shield is freaking massive in PvP

It´s relatively easily breakable with just about any high dmg build. Issues arise from stacking.
For example a dizzying swing warden will bring a 12k shield 21k phys resistance 30k hp sorc to ~40 to 60% hp every time they ultcombo - which obviously happens frequently due to shimmering and they deal HP dmg every 3s when dizzy aligns with shalks. If you nerf the shield in that scenario by say 20% - the sorc will simply die as there is not only no more room for offensive gcds but it will not even be able to trade defense for offense 1:1.

The shield also needs to buy you some offensive time due to the class not having any reliable sustained or offensive healing (outside of the pet that people also want nerfed).

If they nerf everything people ask for the class will just be dead.

Koensol

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

It's really just the pets & streak.

The pets should function much more closely to necro pets instead of being this persistant summon doing constant damage and taking 5% AOE damage.

Streak needs to have the cost dramatically lowered and have charges. 1 charge per 10 seconds instead of the scaling cost. Hitting 3 or more targets should provide a charge back. Gives solo 1vX Sorc much more space to work with while putting Streak runners into the ground and punishing them for outright running.

Other than some tweaking to Master's Destro, I don't really see any fundamental overperforming issues with magsorc. It has a lot of underperforming values that need to be addressed as well.

I think streak should not have a stacking cost at all. Remove the resistance buff on shields and return them back to how they were. Give back frags their cc.

Fixing mag sorc is as simple as reverting a bunch of stuff. No need to redesign something which was never broken in the first place.

Then please give DKs back permareflect from wings, give templar BoL back that burst heals 3 targets with major mending from ritual, give NB back 50 ult incap with defile and stun with purge on dark cloak.... I sometimes get the feeling some of you just want to have everything available to you. Just like the ridiculous nonsense that it is "unfair" how pirate skeleton doesn't proc through shields.

I honestly would not mind giving all classes back their identity. Bring back dynamic ultigen as well.

This game used to be so much fun before and it keeps going backwards patch after patch.

The warden class is absolutely destroyed in the name of balance.
necro is another one which is useless. The nerf train never stops does it?

Yea I gathered as much when reading your posts. You want easy mode. Because that's what the game was back then. Easy mode and insanely imbalanced.

Also warden destroyed? Omegalul. Warden is insanely strong in group play. Not on level of magsorc for solo, sure. But not bad at it by any means, in case of stamden that is. Magden does have problems in solo play, but this is mostly because they lack mobility, just like DK, templar and necro. Biggest problems of warden overall are in 1v1. But absolutely destroyed? Please..

pieratsos

usmcjdking wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

It's really just the pets & streak.

The pets should function much more closely to necro pets instead of being this persistant summon doing constant damage and taking 5% AOE damage.

Streak needs to have the cost dramatically lowered and have charges. 1 charge per 10 seconds instead of the scaling cost. Hitting 3 or more targets should provide a charge back. Gives solo 1vX Sorc much more space to work with while putting Streak runners into the ground and punishing them for outright running.

Other than some tweaking to Master's Destro, I don't really see any fundamental overperforming issues with magsorc. It has a lot of underperforming values that need to be addressed as well.

And the fact that streaking roots me now unable to move.....let's fix that bug asap plz. Legit not playing magsorc in cyro until its fixed.

I personally have no issue with streak offering better mobility than it currently does, but there does need to be limitations on it's usage.

But it does have limitations. The issue is that they are overshadowed by the fact the sorc can also get plenty of tankiness through huge shields, resistances, hp, pet Los and huge burst heals. Those are the issues.

Sorc defence should mostly be based around streak, mines etc. Basically keeping people away from you by being mobile. Not facetanking. This is the thing that everyone simply ignored with old shields. Yes they did not take crits, yes you could not penetrate them and yes the huge shueldstacks needed adjusting and they still do, but at least it made sure one thing. That the class did not synergize with tanking mechanics which is how it should be. It did not incentivise the class to stack resistances like a freaking tank.

MaxJrFTW

bardx86 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Necro+Alfiq lands somewhere around 15k I was told. Obviously need a pet for necro or shadowrend

6.5 28k magicka 24k health

This! A 6.5K is insufficient in BG's under the current meta. I don't run pets and I shouldn't have to be competitive. Petless Sorcs are in a bad spot as the sorc defensive tool kit sucks. I wish they would just nerf the *** out of pets and give use a real heal and bump harden ward a bit in BG's.

L2p issue. People don't like honesty, but that's clearly the problem here.

Ya that's it, very constructive.

Apparently spreading misinformation like "non pet magsorcs are hot garbage" is constructive. You're a hypocrite.

Trian94

@Koensol my dude idk how people cant see the problem.

Tbh isn't only magsorcs. Any class can run bright throat and spring loaded infusion or bloody mara with another magicka set. You can max out the stat (which is a resource pool) that affects magicka DMG the most while having insane amount of hp and stam cause of tristat drink AND benefitting from regen, spell crit and penetration just by wearing light armour. Furthermore you don't need spell dmg that much so mag characters can play recovery glyphs without sacrificing much because they're rocking 40k magicka.

Meanwhile stam character's struggle to get more than 27k stam and have a strong build with high enough weapon damage sustain and not even a decent amount of critical

Mind that this is only the no cp standpoint.

Iskiab

Trian94 wrote: »

@Koensol my dude idk how people cant see the problem.

Tbh isn't only magsorcs. Any class can run bright throat and spring loaded infusion or bloody mara with another magicka set. You can max out the stat (which is a resource pool) that affects magicka DMG the most while having insane amount of hp and stam cause of tristat drink AND benefitting from regen, spell crit and penetration just by wearing light armour. Furthermore you don't need spell dmg that much so mag characters can play recovery glyphs without sacrificing much because they're rocking 40k magicka.

Meanwhile stam character's struggle to get more than 27k stam and have a strong build with high enough weapon damage sustain and not even a decent amount of critical

Mind that this is only the no cp standpoint.

The issue can’t be a gear issue if it’s only effecting one magicka class.

Trian94

@Iskiab What I'm saying isn't affecting one class only and imo is the main thing that causes magsorc and other mag classes to hit stupid strong from my stand point. It's not normal to be at 26k + resistances or at the cap and be hit by 5-6k non crit curse from a non pet magsorcs in no cp, or an assassin's will of the same dmg unless people wear spinner's and sharpened weapon which is kind of unlikely unless 90% of sorcs are wearing these stuff. Apart from the stuff I mention in the previous comment.

Iskiab

Trian94 wrote: »

@Iskiab What I'm saying isn't affecting one class only and imo is the main thing that causes magsorc and other mag classes to hit stupid strong from my stand point. It's not normal to be at 26k + resistances or at the cap and be hit by 5-6k non crit curse from a non pet magsorcs in no cp, or an assassin's will of the same dmg unless people wear spinner's and sharpened weapon which is kind of unlikely unless 90% of sorcs are wearing these stuff. Apart from the stuff I mention in the previous comment.

Yea, 5k frag is pretty normal.

One thing though. I only play no-CP, but people say no-CP favours sorcs and CP stamina classes? If light armour was the issue it would be the other way around.

From CPs people get a flat stat boost to all 3 stats but nothing for weapon or spell damage. If light armour was the issue sorcs in these type of builds would be even more powerful in CP pvp.

I think the issue’s more simple. Most stamina only have vigor which isn’t enough self healing unless you’re wearing heavy for the +healing modifiers. That plus cc breaking’s too costly in no-CP so melee have a rough time.

When people talk about the strongest pvp classes it’s magsorcs, stamdks and stamwarden. Some classes can heal themselves more efficiently then others - bam, they’re stronger. Mitigation and damage you can gear for, self healing you can’t.

Lord-Otto

Derra wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

show me a competitive build that has 11k harden ward? non pet sorc.

Necro+Alfiq lands somewhere around 15k I was told. Obviously need a pet for necro or shadowrend

If i put on necro + alfiq and put a reasonable amount in bastion (12% - after that you lose effective shield strengh bc you give up too much mitigation) i reach 52k magica and 13.6k hardened ward.

So consider me doubtful when anyone speaks about a working setup (ofc you can put magelight and bound armor on your shieldbar for the sake of it) 15k shield on a build that does not involve imperial physique and carrying 10k+ telvar in IC.

Realistic builds should be more along the lines of 10.5 to 12k hardened since the ability got fixed.

How are you dealing with the absence of the Master's staff?

Trian94

Iskiab wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

@Iskiab What I'm saying isn't affecting one class only and imo is the main thing that causes magsorc and other mag classes to hit stupid strong from my stand point. It's not normal to be at 26k + resistances or at the cap and be hit by 5-6k non crit curse from a non pet magsorcs in no cp, or an assassin's will of the same dmg unless people wear spinner's and sharpened weapon which is kind of unlikely unless 90% of sorcs are wearing these stuff. Apart from the stuff I mention in the previous comment.

Yea, 5k frag is pretty normal.

One thing though. I only play no-CP, but people say no-CP favours sorcs and CP stamina classes? If light armour was the issue it would be the other way around.

From CPs people get a flat stat boost to all 3 stats but nothing for weapon or spell damage. If light armour was the issue sorcs in these type of builds would be even more powerful in CP pvp.

I think the issue’s more simple. Most stamina only have vigor which isn’t enough self healing unless you’re wearing heavy for the +healing modifiers. That plus cc breaking’s too costly in no-CP so melee have a rough time.

When people talk about the strongest pvp classes it’s magsorcs, stamdks and stamwarden. Some classes can heal themselves more efficiently then others - bam, they’re stronger. Mitigation and damage you can gear for, self healing you can’t.

No it's not normal at cap resistances. I play no cp almost exclusively and my point is that especially in no cp magicka chars have insanely high magicka and every other stat at a decent level without sacrificing much if anything at all. That's a balance issue no doubt

Iskiab

Trian94 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

@Iskiab What I'm saying isn't affecting one class only and imo is the main thing that causes magsorc and other mag classes to hit stupid strong from my stand point. It's not normal to be at 26k + resistances or at the cap and be hit by 5-6k non crit curse from a non pet magsorcs in no cp, or an assassin's will of the same dmg unless people wear spinner's and sharpened weapon which is kind of unlikely unless 90% of sorcs are wearing these stuff. Apart from the stuff I mention in the previous comment.

Yea, 5k frag is pretty normal.

One thing though. I only play no-CP, but people say no-CP favours sorcs and CP stamina classes? If light armour was the issue it would be the other way around.

From CPs people get a flat stat boost to all 3 stats but nothing for weapon or spell damage. If light armour was the issue sorcs in these type of builds would be even more powerful in CP pvp.

I think the issue’s more simple. Most stamina only have vigor which isn’t enough self healing unless you’re wearing heavy for the +healing modifiers. That plus cc breaking’s too costly in no-CP so melee have a rough time.

When people talk about the strongest pvp classes it’s magsorcs, stamdks and stamwarden. Some classes can heal themselves more efficiently then others - bam, they’re stronger. Mitigation and damage you can gear for, self healing you can’t.

No it's not normal at cap resistances. I play no cp almost exclusively and my point is that especially in no cp magicka chars have insanely high magicka and every other stat at a decent level without sacrificing much if anything at all. That's a balance issue no doubt

Yea, I agree about the stat differences but think it’s only because stam stack weapon damage. You could build a stam with the same stamina variant sets but people don’t because it would lead to survivability issues.

Best solution I think would be to change shuffle. Add a hot on shuffle to make medium more attractive, or maybe another guild stamina self heal only. The stamina classes that are already stacked with healing wouldn’t need it, and those without could use it. Might be as simple as reducing the cost of bone shield.

Derra

Trian94 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

@Iskiab What I'm saying isn't affecting one class only and imo is the main thing that causes magsorc and other mag classes to hit stupid strong from my stand point. It's not normal to be at 26k + resistances or at the cap and be hit by 5-6k non crit curse from a non pet magsorcs in no cp, or an assassin's will of the same dmg unless people wear spinner's and sharpened weapon which is kind of unlikely unless 90% of sorcs are wearing these stuff. Apart from the stuff I mention in the previous comment.

Yea, 5k frag is pretty normal.

One thing though. I only play no-CP, but people say no-CP favours sorcs and CP stamina classes? If light armour was the issue it would be the other way around.

From CPs people get a flat stat boost to all 3 stats but nothing for weapon or spell damage. If light armour was the issue sorcs in these type of builds would be even more powerful in CP pvp.

I think the issue’s more simple. Most stamina only have vigor which isn’t enough self healing unless you’re wearing heavy for the +healing modifiers. That plus cc breaking’s too costly in no-CP so melee have a rough time.

When people talk about the strongest pvp classes it’s magsorcs, stamdks and stamwarden. Some classes can heal themselves more efficiently then others - bam, they’re stronger. Mitigation and damage you can gear for, self healing you can’t.

No it's not normal at cap resistances. I play no cp almost exclusively and my point is that especially in no cp magicka chars have insanely high magicka and every other stat at a decent level without sacrificing much if anything at all. That's a balance issue no doubt

Why would magica chars have more stats than stamina chars though if they use tristat drink (ignoring bloody mara here).
You can use bone pirate spriggan and have the same stam to work with as a mag char using bright throat and spinner when both use tripple drink?

Insco851

Derra wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

@Iskiab What I'm saying isn't affecting one class only and imo is the main thing that causes magsorc and other mag classes to hit stupid strong from my stand point. It's not normal to be at 26k + resistances or at the cap and be hit by 5-6k non crit curse from a non pet magsorcs in no cp, or an assassin's will of the same dmg unless people wear spinner's and sharpened weapon which is kind of unlikely unless 90% of sorcs are wearing these stuff. Apart from the stuff I mention in the previous comment.

Yea, 5k frag is pretty normal.

One thing though. I only play no-CP, but people say no-CP favours sorcs and CP stamina classes? If light armour was the issue it would be the other way around.

From CPs people get a flat stat boost to all 3 stats but nothing for weapon or spell damage. If light armour was the issue sorcs in these type of builds would be even more powerful in CP pvp.

I think the issue’s more simple. Most stamina only have vigor which isn’t enough self healing unless you’re wearing heavy for the +healing modifiers. That plus cc breaking’s too costly in no-CP so melee have a rough time.

When people talk about the strongest pvp classes it’s magsorcs, stamdks and stamwarden. Some classes can heal themselves more efficiently then others - bam, they’re stronger. Mitigation and damage you can gear for, self healing you can’t.

No it's not normal at cap resistances. I play no cp almost exclusively and my point is that especially in no cp magicka chars have insanely high magicka and every other stat at a decent level without sacrificing much if anything at all. That's a balance issue no doubt

Why would magica chars have more stats than stamina chars though if they use tristat drink (ignoring bloody mara here).
You can use bone pirate spriggan and have the same stam to work with as a mag char using bright throat and spinner when both use tripple drink?

There’s more max magic modifiers than there are Stam modifiers (bound armaments) - inner light, class passives, magic controller-

But it’s much easier to stack weapon damage than spell damage as well so that’s where the balance lands.

mursie

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

I honestly would not mind giving all classes back their identity. Bring back dynamic ultigen as well.

This game used to be so much fun before and it keeps going backwards patch after patch.

The warden class is absolutely destroyed in the name of balance.
necro is another one which is useless. The nerf train never stops does it?

Koensol wrote: »

Yea I gathered as much when reading your posts. You want easy mode. Because that's what the game was back then. Easy mode and insanely imbalanced.

Also warden destroyed? Omegalul. Warden is insanely strong in group play. Not on level of magsorc for solo, sure. But not bad at it by any means, in case of stamden that is. Magden does have problems in solo play, but this is mostly because they lack mobility, just like DK, templar and necro. Biggest problems of warden overall are in 1v1. But absolutely destroyed? Please..

sad to say - but phoenix is an absolute nut job. these posts solidify that. warden and magsorc are the "woe is me" dumpster classes per his posts? are you kidding me? absolutely delusional.

Lord-Otto

mursie wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

I honestly would not mind giving all classes back their identity. Bring back dynamic ultigen as well.

This game used to be so much fun before and it keeps going backwards patch after patch.

The warden class is absolutely destroyed in the name of balance.
necro is another one which is useless. The nerf train never stops does it?

Koensol wrote: »

Yea I gathered as much when reading your posts. You want easy mode. Because that's what the game was back then. Easy mode and insanely imbalanced.

Also warden destroyed? Omegalul. Warden is insanely strong in group play. Not on level of magsorc for solo, sure. But not bad at it by any means, in case of stamden that is. Magden does have problems in solo play, but this is mostly because they lack mobility, just like DK, templar and necro. Biggest problems of warden overall are in 1v1. But absolutely destroyed? Please..

sad to say - but phoenix is an absolute nut job. these posts solidify that. warden and magsorc are the "woe is me" dumpster classes per his posts? are you kidding me? absolutely delusional.

Magden and magcro are questionable at best.

TheYKcid

Magden is easily the most impactful class in BGs at the moment.

Insco851

TheYKcid wrote: »

Magden is easily the most impactful class in BGs at the moment.

Small group king

Derra

Insco851 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

@Iskiab What I'm saying isn't affecting one class only and imo is the main thing that causes magsorc and other mag classes to hit stupid strong from my stand point. It's not normal to be at 26k + resistances or at the cap and be hit by 5-6k non crit curse from a non pet magsorcs in no cp, or an assassin's will of the same dmg unless people wear spinner's and sharpened weapon which is kind of unlikely unless 90% of sorcs are wearing these stuff. Apart from the stuff I mention in the previous comment.

Yea, 5k frag is pretty normal.

One thing though. I only play no-CP, but people say no-CP favours sorcs and CP stamina classes? If light armour was the issue it would be the other way around.

From CPs people get a flat stat boost to all 3 stats but nothing for weapon or spell damage. If light armour was the issue sorcs in these type of builds would be even more powerful in CP pvp.

I think the issue’s more simple. Most stamina only have vigor which isn’t enough self healing unless you’re wearing heavy for the +healing modifiers. That plus cc breaking’s too costly in no-CP so melee have a rough time.

When people talk about the strongest pvp classes it’s magsorcs, stamdks and stamwarden. Some classes can heal themselves more efficiently then others - bam, they’re stronger. Mitigation and damage you can gear for, self healing you can’t.

No it's not normal at cap resistances. I play no cp almost exclusively and my point is that especially in no cp magicka chars have insanely high magicka and every other stat at a decent level without sacrificing much if anything at all. That's a balance issue no doubt

Why would magica chars have more stats than stamina chars though if they use tristat drink (ignoring bloody mara here).
You can use bone pirate spriggan and have the same stam to work with as a mag char using bright throat and spinner when both use tripple drink?

There’s more max magic modifiers than there are Stam modifiers (bound armaments) - inner light, class passives, magic controller-

But it’s much easier to stack weapon damage than spell damage as well so that’s where the balance lands.

If you have room for those that is ofc.

Trian94

Derra wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

@Iskiab What I'm saying isn't affecting one class only and imo is the main thing that causes magsorc and other mag classes to hit stupid strong from my stand point. It's not normal to be at 26k + resistances or at the cap and be hit by 5-6k non crit curse from a non pet magsorcs in no cp, or an assassin's will of the same dmg unless people wear spinner's and sharpened weapon which is kind of unlikely unless 90% of sorcs are wearing these stuff. Apart from the stuff I mention in the previous comment.

Yea, 5k frag is pretty normal.

One thing though. I only play no-CP, but people say no-CP favours sorcs and CP stamina classes? If light armour was the issue it would be the other way around.

From CPs people get a flat stat boost to all 3 stats but nothing for weapon or spell damage. If light armour was the issue sorcs in these type of builds would be even more powerful in CP pvp.

I think the issue’s more simple. Most stamina only have vigor which isn’t enough self healing unless you’re wearing heavy for the +healing modifiers. That plus cc breaking’s too costly in no-CP so melee have a rough time.

When people talk about the strongest pvp classes it’s magsorcs, stamdks and stamwarden. Some classes can heal themselves more efficiently then others - bam, they’re stronger. Mitigation and damage you can gear for, self healing you can’t.

No it's not normal at cap resistances. I play no cp almost exclusively and my point is that especially in no cp magicka chars have insanely high magicka and every other stat at a decent level without sacrificing much if anything at all. That's a balance issue no doubt

Why would magica chars have more stats than stamina chars though if they use tristat drink (ignoring bloody mara here).
You can use bone pirate spriggan and have the same stam to work with as a mag char using bright throat and spinner when both use tripple drink?

Because it's not viable. Even if you have 36k stamina in no cp you can't afford to have low weapon damage which you will be having after you realize your sustain isn't enough and dump physical harm glyphs for mag and/or stam regen depending on your class, let alone mundus stone. Your heals will be bad cause medium armour and people will go though your resistances even if you might run protective or bloodspawn. Oh and also there's bleeds and over times in general.
I'm in 5 heavy sitting at 26k + resistances without bloodspawn proc and the meta sorc builds (and magicka build to an extent ) right now hit hard af.