Maintenance for the week of January 6:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
The "Balance" of Mag Sorcs
-
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »mook-eb16_ESO wrote: »why is this thread a thing in a stamina dominated meta?
From a PvE perspective: no reason for this thread to exist, as you pointed out, Stam meta.
From a PvP perspective: Magsorcs are incredibly strong, by far the strongest Magicka class and overall one of the best PvP builds and due to their incredible burst + reactive execute very hard to counter. Plus they have one of the best PvP ultimates (Negate) and very strong self-heals/shields. Plus pets in PvE are incredibly annoying and are a massive pita due to the really bad targeting system this game has, e.g. alone due to their size they act as some kind of secondary defense on top.
Stamina builds are in general stronger than magicka ones in PvP. Sorc is the one notable exception.
Did you know that pet sorcs actually don't use Fury? You gotta pay the two Twilight slots somehow, and there's the big sacrifice. Something that certain people here like to ignore...
I really don’t see the sacrifice at all. Twilight has an amazing heal, is very helpful for LoS and hiding behind it due to bad targeting, it deals a good amount of damage AND it’s always active and fully autonomic, e.g. you have to summon it once and it does all the stuff without you (except the healing).
I know that Stamina builds are generally stronger than Magicka builds but I’d still put Sorcerer at least on par.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »mook-eb16_ESO wrote: »why is this thread a thing in a stamina dominated meta?
From a PvE perspective: no reason for this thread to exist, as you pointed out, Stam meta.
From a PvP perspective: Magsorcs are incredibly strong, by far the strongest Magicka class and overall one of the best PvP builds and due to their incredible burst + reactive execute very hard to counter. Plus they have one of the best PvP ultimates (Negate) and very strong self-heals/shields. Plus pets in PvE are incredibly annoying and are a massive pita due to the really bad targeting system this game has, e.g. alone due to their size they act as some kind of secondary defense on top.
Stamina builds are in general stronger than magicka ones in PvP. Sorc is the one notable exception.
Did you know that pet sorcs actually don't use Fury? You gotta pay the two Twilight slots somehow, and there's the big sacrifice. Something that certain people here like to ignore...
I really don’t see the sacrifice at all. Twilight has an amazing heal, is very helpful for LoS and hiding behind it due to bad targeting, it deals a good amount of damage AND it’s always active and fully autonomic, e.g. you have to summon it once and it does all the stuff without you (except the healing).
I know that Stamina builds are generally stronger than Magicka builds but I’d still put Sorcerer at least on par.
Sorcs wouldn't drop Fury for Twilight if it wasn't worth it. I was criticizing the nonsense thrown around here about "OMG, petsorcshieldstackfuryexecute!". Petsorcs don't use Fury. And it is a loss, albeit a worthwhile one.
Yes, I agree magsorc is absolutely on par with stamina builds. It's the other mag builds that are IMO inferior.3 -
oxygen_thief✭✭✭✭✭
✭
@usmcjdking
whats about a BOL moph? it would be one more useless skill. its a nice balancing you do.usmcjdking wrote: »It's really just the pets & streak.
Streak needs to have the cost dramatically lowered and have charges. 1 charge per 10 seconds instead of the scaling cost. Hitting 3 or more targets should provide a charge back. Gives solo 1vX Sorc much more space to work with while putting Streak runners into the ground and punishing them for outright running.
0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmcjdking wrote: »It's really just the pets & streak.
The pets should function much more closely to necro pets instead of being this persistant summon doing constant damage and taking 5% AOE damage.
Streak needs to have the cost dramatically lowered and have charges. 1 charge per 10 seconds instead of the scaling cost. Hitting 3 or more targets should provide a charge back. Gives solo 1vX Sorc much more space to work with while putting Streak runners into the ground and punishing them for outright running.
Other than some tweaking to Master's Destro, I don't really see any fundamental overperforming issues with magsorc. It has a lot of underperforming values that need to be addressed as well.
And the fact that streaking roots me now unable to move.....let's fix that bug asap plz. Legit not playing magsorc in cyro until its fixed.3 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »reduce streak range by 30%
cap dmg shield at 35%
redesign mages wrath, that ability is just plain *** and an absolute nobrainer
Pets should just be targeted for single target abilities if the player tabbed willingly on the pet via tabtarget, but i guess thats far to hard to implement, so just lower pet health and raise their casttime, so you are actually able to active counter them by killing them
And now tell me how a sorc that doesn´t abuse pets or shieldstacking would be supposed to even play the class anymore...
This is the problem with people who want to nerf sorcs. They don´t care or understand the class - so just carpetbomb it to ***. Just nerf every ability that might be slightly inconvenient to fight against.
Why nerf the shield - when you can adress stacking that´s the issue in 95% of the cases (the others being too little dmg on the attacker side).
Why nerf streak at all atm - high stacking cost. The only reliable class cc and is already only 15m range + gapcloser are finally useable again.
And pets is just an all around stupid approach. They already die like flies in larger encouters and are 1 or 2shot for competent player - effectively being able to lock the sorc into recast + shielding with that.
Pets need to be not attackable - because being able to los but also die is the biggest scaling variable in the viability of these skills. A variable that can´t be controlled at that bc it depends on number and braincells of the enemy players.
To eliminate that you have to make pets unattackable. That removes los and it removes eventual downtimes you´d otherwise need to consider in their scaling.
Then you can go and massively cut matriarch dmg and rework the heal to sth not as much resembling bol.
You can give their (auto) attacks a minimal magica cost to prevent them from being free dmg (apart from slots).
You can finally begin to weight them against other skills without having to consider uptime and recasts and all that nonsense you can´t control.
Essentially to balance pets you need to rework them completely...
Don´t know if i agree on mages wrath. It´s mainly a bg killstealer and potatokiller. If i have to fight a competent player the first skill i remove from my bar is mages wrath.
No idea if the BG problem could be solved otherwise.
I dont know if nerfing shieldstacking is a good change. Sometimes outnumbered fights last for quite a while.
Do you really think a non breton mag sorc can sustain or tank out damage for extended period of time without stacking ?
To be fair, game balance occurs around group play because this is aPhoenixGrey wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »
Outnumbered fights/1vx is just another name for seal clubbing. They're only possible due to CP advantage or huge skill gaps.
Oh btw, sorcs are the best seal clubbing class in the game #nerfmagsorcs
IDK about seal clubbing. Some people only enjoy outnumbered PVP in this game. I wouldn't step into BG's if cyrodil wasn't so laggy all the time.
You think it's possible to fight outnumbered against equally skilled players without a considerable cp gap and win?
You probably do, but you're also the same deluded person that thinks magsorcs aren't op right now...
I don't know what's the definition of equally skilled is in this game nor do i care about it. Those are the standards which guys like you want to define. There is honestly not much CP gap nowdays since the CP cap has not been changed for a bit.
I am a paying customer of ZOS who wants to enjoy outnumbered PVP on my mag sorc. If not mag sorc there are a few other classes which we can now choose from. Its literally that simple for me mate
And there it is , simple as that. Because so many of your pet sorc brothers think like you we are at this state. If you don't care about balance , then leave the forums and stop spreading misinformation . Hey it's perfectly fine to enjoy the game and performing well is a part of that, but by god you people jump on every thread remotely going against your class and bombard it with misinformation and insults .
How is it that any stamina necromancer you ask about pummeling goliath is like "yea that skills is super broken" but you mention how pet sorcs dominate pvp more than ever and people are preparing the noose to hang you.
Btw one extremely bad thing i have noticed as well is the deafening silence of the devs on this matter. They react when they have to gut other classes but with sorcs , they are like that dog in the meme , where he is drinking coffee while his house is burning down lol.
What's the issue here? Phoenix is actually a very decent player. I have 2vX with him a few times.
No one is denying that sorc us strong right now but you look at that from a certain context. First of all, bad players are bad and can be farmed regardless of 1 skill or a gear set. I can farm them with multiple classes and specific to magsorc in petless builds as well. The issue is with pets.
Secondly, ZOS doesnt balance this game around 1vX and to keep expecting they will is just setting you up for disappointment. They have patch after patch made it harder for 1vX.
Thirdly, to address a previous question, No I cannot 1vX skilled players. However, i can build defensively and survive possibly at the expense of being able to kill anything. That's a trade off IMO.
For giggles, I ran riposte, bloodspawn, and impreg on one of my magsorcs with temporal guard slotted. The potatoes trying to kill me sent me whispers about cheat engine and being a hacker. Typical. Can I kill anyone competent on that set up? Nope. Can I kill bads? Yep. So why do we need to bring the ceiling down for then and continue to drive off good players? Why keep introducing sets like troll king, earthgore, etc
Because zos caters to the casual. They have said lower the ceiling raise the floor multiple times. Fuggin zos'd
The flaw in that line of thought is the assumption that a higher ttk caters to casuals - which it does not.
A tanky meta leads to fights not determined by one mistake but instead by multiple or bad decision or resource management. Fighting for extended periods of time is way harder than short fights as it allows for more mistakes to be made - while landing a lucky punch (or string of crits) is virtually never a deciding factor as the dmg to HP ratio is usually skewed in favor of hp.
The problem in that regard is mainly that securing a kill requires well executed offense over sometimes extended periods of time.
No casual below average player in any mmo i´ve ever played has been capable of achieving that.
So while I agree heres an honest question then....how to remove the tank meta (ttk) without punishing good players (meaning 2 bad players dont lick their keyboard and kill the 1 good player)?
A lot of the 1vX crowd rely on some of these sets in order to survive (i.e bloodspawn, TK, pirate, etc)Edited by Malamar1229 on July 2, 2019 6:23PM0 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmcjdking wrote: »It's really just the pets & streak.
The pets should function much more closely to necro pets instead of being this persistant summon doing constant damage and taking 5% AOE damage.
Streak needs to have the cost dramatically lowered and have charges. 1 charge per 10 seconds instead of the scaling cost. Hitting 3 or more targets should provide a charge back. Gives solo 1vX Sorc much more space to work with while putting Streak runners into the ground and punishing them for outright running.
Other than some tweaking to Master's Destro, I don't really see any fundamental overperforming issues with magsorc. It has a lot of underperforming values that need to be addressed as well.
I think streak should not have a stacking cost at all. Remove the resistance buff on shields and return them back to how they were. Give back frags their cc.
Fixing mag sorc is as simple as reverting a bunch of stuff. No need to redesign something which was never broken in the first place.1 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »It's really just the pets & streak.
The pets should function much more closely to necro pets instead of being this persistant summon doing constant damage and taking 5% AOE damage.
Streak needs to have the cost dramatically lowered and have charges. 1 charge per 10 seconds instead of the scaling cost. Hitting 3 or more targets should provide a charge back. Gives solo 1vX Sorc much more space to work with while putting Streak runners into the ground and punishing them for outright running.
Other than some tweaking to Master's Destro, I don't really see any fundamental overperforming issues with magsorc. It has a lot of underperforming values that need to be addressed as well.
I think streak should not have a stacking cost at all. Remove the resistance buff on shields and return them back to how they were. Give back frags their cc.
Fixing mag sorc is as simple as reverting a bunch of stuff. No need to redesign something which was never broken in the first place.
Ehh you wont like this but to be fair if streak had no cost increase I think magsorcs would gain even more in the mobility department. I think that would have to come with a sacrifice like removing resists from shields. I think successful kiting can be considered a skill (using terrain, range, etc) and the cost increase removal can result in extreme mobility while maintaining a high level of dmg and tankiness.Edited by Malamar1229 on July 2, 2019 6:27PM2 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Malamar1229 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »It's really just the pets & streak.
The pets should function much more closely to necro pets instead of being this persistant summon doing constant damage and taking 5% AOE damage.
Streak needs to have the cost dramatically lowered and have charges. 1 charge per 10 seconds instead of the scaling cost. Hitting 3 or more targets should provide a charge back. Gives solo 1vX Sorc much more space to work with while putting Streak runners into the ground and punishing them for outright running.
Other than some tweaking to Master's Destro, I don't really see any fundamental overperforming issues with magsorc. It has a lot of underperforming values that need to be addressed as well.
I think streak should not have a stacking cost at all. Remove the resistance buff on shields and return them back to how they were. Give back frags their cc.
Fixing mag sorc is as simple as reverting a bunch of stuff. No need to redesign something which was never broken in the first place.
Ehh you wont like this but to be fair if streak had no cost increase I think magsorcs would gain even more in the mobility department. I think that would have to come with a sacrifice like removing resists from shields. I think successful kiting can be considered a skill (using terrain, range, etc) and the cost increase removal can result in extreme mobility while maintaining a high level of dmg and tankiness.
Yeah but I think the skill defines class identity and should not have been meddles with. Similar such buffs can be made across the board to other classes with these unique class defining skills.
You cannot achieve true balance in this game unless you start taking away class uniqueness. However what you can achieve is a fun to play video game.1 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »It's really just the pets & streak.
The pets should function much more closely to necro pets instead of being this persistant summon doing constant damage and taking 5% AOE damage.
Streak needs to have the cost dramatically lowered and have charges. 1 charge per 10 seconds instead of the scaling cost. Hitting 3 or more targets should provide a charge back. Gives solo 1vX Sorc much more space to work with while putting Streak runners into the ground and punishing them for outright running.
Other than some tweaking to Master's Destro, I don't really see any fundamental overperforming issues with magsorc. It has a lot of underperforming values that need to be addressed as well.
And the fact that streaking roots me now unable to move.....let's fix that bug asap plz. Legit not playing magsorc in cyro until its fixed.
I personally have no issue with streak offering better mobility than it currently does, but there does need to be limitations on it's usage.0331
06020 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭oxygen_thief wrote: »@usmcjdking
whats about a BOL moph? it would be one more useless skill. its a nice balancing you do.usmcjdking wrote: »It's really just the pets & streak.
Streak needs to have the cost dramatically lowered and have charges. 1 charge per 10 seconds instead of the scaling cost. Hitting 3 or more targets should provide a charge back. Gives solo 1vX Sorc much more space to work with while putting Streak runners into the ground and punishing them for outright running.
BOL is incredibly potent as-is, it's not in need of any love.0331
06022 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »It's really just the pets & streak.
The pets should function much more closely to necro pets instead of being this persistant summon doing constant damage and taking 5% AOE damage.
Streak needs to have the cost dramatically lowered and have charges. 1 charge per 10 seconds instead of the scaling cost. Hitting 3 or more targets should provide a charge back. Gives solo 1vX Sorc much more space to work with while putting Streak runners into the ground and punishing them for outright running.
Other than some tweaking to Master's Destro, I don't really see any fundamental overperforming issues with magsorc. It has a lot of underperforming values that need to be addressed as well.
And the fact that streaking roots me now unable to move.....let's fix that bug asap plz. Legit not playing magsorc in cyro until its fixed.
I personally have no issue with streak offering better mobility than it currently does, but there does need to be limitations on it's usage.
Increasing cost after subsequent use is imho the best way to limit skills like Streak. I still wish they would do something similar for many other skills like Cloak or many of the CCs.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -4 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »reduce streak range by 30%
cap dmg shield at 35%
redesign mages wrath, that ability is just plain *** and an absolute nobrainer
Pets should just be targeted for single target abilities if the player tabbed willingly on the pet via tabtarget, but i guess thats far to hard to implement, so just lower pet health and raise their casttime, so you are actually able to active counter them by killing them
And now tell me how a sorc that doesn´t abuse pets or shieldstacking would be supposed to even play the class anymore...
This is the problem with people who want to nerf sorcs. They don´t care or understand the class - so just carpetbomb it to ***. Just nerf every ability that might be slightly inconvenient to fight against.
Why nerf the shield - when you can adress stacking that´s the issue in 95% of the cases (the others being too little dmg on the attacker side).
Why nerf streak at all atm - high stacking cost. The only reliable class cc and is already only 15m range + gapcloser are finally useable again.
And pets is just an all around stupid approach. They already die like flies in larger encouters and are 1 or 2shot for competent player - effectively being able to lock the sorc into recast + shielding with that.
Pets need to be not attackable - because being able to los but also die is the biggest scaling variable in the viability of these skills. A variable that can´t be controlled at that bc it depends on number and braincells of the enemy players.
To eliminate that you have to make pets unattackable. That removes los and it removes eventual downtimes you´d otherwise need to consider in their scaling.
Then you can go and massively cut matriarch dmg and rework the heal to sth not as much resembling bol.
You can give their (auto) attacks a minimal magica cost to prevent them from being free dmg (apart from slots).
You can finally begin to weight them against other skills without having to consider uptime and recasts and all that nonsense you can´t control.
Essentially to balance pets you need to rework them completely...
Don´t know if i agree on mages wrath. It´s mainly a bg killstealer and potatokiller. If i have to fight a competent player the first skill i remove from my bar is mages wrath.
No idea if the BG problem could be solved otherwise.
I dont know if nerfing shieldstacking is a good change. Sometimes outnumbered fights last for quite a while.
Do you really think a non breton mag sorc can sustain or tank out damage for extended period of time without stacking ?
To be fair, game balance occurs around group play because this is aPhoenixGrey wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »
Outnumbered fights/1vx is just another name for seal clubbing. They're only possible due to CP advantage or huge skill gaps.
Oh btw, sorcs are the best seal clubbing class in the game #nerfmagsorcs
IDK about seal clubbing. Some people only enjoy outnumbered PVP in this game. I wouldn't step into BG's if cyrodil wasn't so laggy all the time.
You think it's possible to fight outnumbered against equally skilled players without a considerable cp gap and win?
You probably do, but you're also the same deluded person that thinks magsorcs aren't op right now...
I don't know what's the definition of equally skilled is in this game nor do i care about it. Those are the standards which guys like you want to define. There is honestly not much CP gap nowdays since the CP cap has not been changed for a bit.
I am a paying customer of ZOS who wants to enjoy outnumbered PVP on my mag sorc. If not mag sorc there are a few other classes which we can now choose from. Its literally that simple for me mate
And there it is , simple as that. Because so many of your pet sorc brothers think like you we are at this state. If you don't care about balance , then leave the forums and stop spreading misinformation . Hey it's perfectly fine to enjoy the game and performing well is a part of that, but by god you people jump on every thread remotely going against your class and bombard it with misinformation and insults .
How is it that any stamina necromancer you ask about pummeling goliath is like "yea that skills is super broken" but you mention how pet sorcs dominate pvp more than ever and people are preparing the noose to hang you.
Btw one extremely bad thing i have noticed as well is the deafening silence of the devs on this matter. They react when they have to gut other classes but with sorcs , they are like that dog in the meme , where he is drinking coffee while his house is burning down lol.
What's the issue here? Phoenix is actually a very decent player. I have 2vX with him a few times.
No one is denying that sorc us strong right now but you look at that from a certain context. First of all, bad players are bad and can be farmed regardless of 1 skill or a gear set. I can farm them with multiple classes and specific to magsorc in petless builds as well. The issue is with pets.
Secondly, ZOS doesnt balance this game around 1vX and to keep expecting they will is just setting you up for disappointment. They have patch after patch made it harder for 1vX.
Thirdly, to address a previous question, No I cannot 1vX skilled players. However, i can build defensively and survive possibly at the expense of being able to kill anything. That's a trade off IMO.
For giggles, I ran riposte, bloodspawn, and impreg on one of my magsorcs with temporal guard slotted. The potatoes trying to kill me sent me whispers about cheat engine and being a hacker. Typical. Can I kill anyone competent on that set up? Nope. Can I kill bads? Yep. So why do we need to bring the ceiling down for then and continue to drive off good players? Why keep introducing sets like troll king, earthgore, etc
Because zos caters to the casual. They have said lower the ceiling raise the floor multiple times. Fuggin zos'd
The flaw in that line of thought is the assumption that a higher ttk caters to casuals - which it does not.
A tanky meta leads to fights not determined by one mistake but instead by multiple or bad decision or resource management. Fighting for extended periods of time is way harder than short fights as it allows for more mistakes to be made - while landing a lucky punch (or string of crits) is virtually never a deciding factor as the dmg to HP ratio is usually skewed in favor of hp.
The problem in that regard is mainly that securing a kill requires well executed offense over sometimes extended periods of time.
No casual below average player in any mmo i´ve ever played has been capable of achieving that.
So while I agree heres an honest question then....how to remove the tank meta (ttk) without punishing good players (meaning 2 bad players dont lick their keyboard and kill the 1 good player)?
A lot of the 1vX crowd rely on some of these sets in order to survive (i.e bloodspawn, TK, pirate, etc)
If a good player needs certain specific equipment to beat two bad players, maybe he isn't as good as he thinks he is.2 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »It's really just the pets & streak.
The pets should function much more closely to necro pets instead of being this persistant summon doing constant damage and taking 5% AOE damage.
Streak needs to have the cost dramatically lowered and have charges. 1 charge per 10 seconds instead of the scaling cost. Hitting 3 or more targets should provide a charge back. Gives solo 1vX Sorc much more space to work with while putting Streak runners into the ground and punishing them for outright running.
Other than some tweaking to Master's Destro, I don't really see any fundamental overperforming issues with magsorc. It has a lot of underperforming values that need to be addressed as well.
And the fact that streaking roots me now unable to move.....let's fix that bug asap plz. Legit not playing magsorc in cyro until its fixed.
I personally have no issue with streak offering better mobility than it currently does, but there does need to be limitations on it's usage.
Increasing cost after subsequent use is imho the best way to limit skills like Streak. I still wish they would do something similar for many other skills like Cloak or many of the CCs.
Sorcs can basically perma streak it built for it. Increased cost means little if you have a large Stam pool and dark conversion.0 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There are plenty of magdk's running around in BGs ending up with 0 grouphealing. Coagulating blood, embers, and powerlash provide enough healing to stay alive and some choose to run harness.Tell me how it is easier for sorc to be garbage in group than other classes? I gave you examples, but got none in return. If you ask me, it is a lot easier to be hot garbage on medium stamblade because they die in 2 hits and dont offer any group utility if played the rolly polly way. Or what about the magdk with 0 group heals slotted?
Why would a magDK have 0 group heals slotted - that´s a debateable build choice.
Medium stamblade i agree - they have no place in 4v4v4 brawls with lots of ground aoe flying around.
Why is it easier for sorc to be *** in a group setting than other classes (and by other classes i mean heavy stam, magden, magplar and some magDK builds)?
They´re easier to shut down by a competent enemy group/players. This goes for offense and defense - as those are split entirely for sorc. Pressuring an enemy sorc if done right when not outright killing them will remove any offense of them from the fight.
They´re harder to support by their own group due to their defense mechanism being non scaling + being a class with litte healing synergy.GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Lol @Derra "they have to work" come play magnb with me buddy. Let's build some mercy stacks together. Lol "work" god I almost pee'd myself
Magblade is hot garbage this patch due to sustain issues regardless of what you do with it - except if you enjoy wasting everyones time by trolling them.
I can see your argument for shutting down into shield spam, but fail to see how this is any different for say a magplar. If magplar is pushed to defense, they are on their backbar and thats it. Sometimes magdk has the same problem, because they lack consistent rolling hots that stam has for example. Magicka classes in general are easier to lock down. Sorc however can streak away which they often do. People won't be chasing you in BGs like zerglings do in cyrodiil, because it is a waste of time. Guess which class regularly ends up with least deaths? Stamsorc and magsorc.
Ya but the big difference is the Magplar can handle several folks beating on them keeping them busy in the process, a Sorc can not. Sorcs defensive set isn't sufficient in this current healing meta. Healing > Shield by like 10 times right now. Steaking away is 50/50 at best as the skill is too slow and you get stun most of the time. 1 stun = dead Sorc these days. Look I'm not says other classes are much better off I'm just saying the direction of the game sucks and high MMR BG's suck for sorcs.
It's really hard to take these posts seriously. Shielding is worse than healing? Shields aren't subject to defiles, they eat status effects, and they keep you out of execute range. Effectively increasing your EHP while making most of that hp immune to defiles is by far the best way to mitigate damage for players without a sword and shield, so what do you think happens when you add a sword and shield to those players who can practically double their EHP?
Streak is the best mobility skill in the game besides maybe cloak. Come on. Do you know what other classes would give to have something as powerful as streak?Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer6 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There are plenty of magdk's running around in BGs ending up with 0 grouphealing. Coagulating blood, embers, and powerlash provide enough healing to stay alive and some choose to run harness.Tell me how it is easier for sorc to be garbage in group than other classes? I gave you examples, but got none in return. If you ask me, it is a lot easier to be hot garbage on medium stamblade because they die in 2 hits and dont offer any group utility if played the rolly polly way. Or what about the magdk with 0 group heals slotted?
Why would a magDK have 0 group heals slotted - that´s a debateable build choice.
Medium stamblade i agree - they have no place in 4v4v4 brawls with lots of ground aoe flying around.
Why is it easier for sorc to be *** in a group setting than other classes (and by other classes i mean heavy stam, magden, magplar and some magDK builds)?
They´re easier to shut down by a competent enemy group/players. This goes for offense and defense - as those are split entirely for sorc. Pressuring an enemy sorc if done right when not outright killing them will remove any offense of them from the fight.
They´re harder to support by their own group due to their defense mechanism being non scaling + being a class with litte healing synergy.GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Lol @Derra "they have to work" come play magnb with me buddy. Let's build some mercy stacks together. Lol "work" god I almost pee'd myself
Magblade is hot garbage this patch due to sustain issues regardless of what you do with it - except if you enjoy wasting everyones time by trolling them.
I can see your argument for shutting down into shield spam, but fail to see how this is any different for say a magplar. If magplar is pushed to defense, they are on their backbar and thats it. Sometimes magdk has the same problem, because they lack consistent rolling hots that stam has for example. Magicka classes in general are easier to lock down. Sorc however can streak away which they often do. People won't be chasing you in BGs like zerglings do in cyrodiil, because it is a waste of time. Guess which class regularly ends up with least deaths? Stamsorc and magsorc.
Ya but the big difference is the Magplar can handle several folks beating on them keeping them busy in the process, a Sorc can not. Sorcs defensive set isn't sufficient in this current healing meta. Healing > Shield by like 10 times right now. Steaking away is 50/50 at best as the skill is too slow and you get stun most of the time. 1 stun = dead Sorc these days. Look I'm not says other classes are much better off I'm just saying the direction of the game sucks and high MMR BG's suck for sorcs.
It's really hard to take these posts seriously. Shielding is worse than healing? Shields aren't subject to defiles, they eat status effects, and they keep you out of execute range. Effectively increasing your EHP while making most of that hp immune to defiles is by far the best way to mitigate damage for players without a sword and shield, so what do you think happens when you add a sword and shield to those players who can practically double their EHP?
Streak is the best mobility skill in the game besides maybe cloak. Come on. Do you know what other classes would give to have something as powerful as streak?
Shields in BGs suck ass and can't go over 1/2 HP's. You can heal too full in one GCD so ya healing is stronger. Shield aren't effected by defile because you can't buff them to get strong like healing so that fair. While steak is just ok in the mobility anyone with speed buff will catch you and kill you when you are out of mana. Gap closers? Ya thats a thing.Edited by bardx86 on July 2, 2019 10:08PM3 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There are plenty of magdk's running around in BGs ending up with 0 grouphealing. Coagulating blood, embers, and powerlash provide enough healing to stay alive and some choose to run harness.Tell me how it is easier for sorc to be garbage in group than other classes? I gave you examples, but got none in return. If you ask me, it is a lot easier to be hot garbage on medium stamblade because they die in 2 hits and dont offer any group utility if played the rolly polly way. Or what about the magdk with 0 group heals slotted?
Why would a magDK have 0 group heals slotted - that´s a debateable build choice.
Medium stamblade i agree - they have no place in 4v4v4 brawls with lots of ground aoe flying around.
Why is it easier for sorc to be *** in a group setting than other classes (and by other classes i mean heavy stam, magden, magplar and some magDK builds)?
They´re easier to shut down by a competent enemy group/players. This goes for offense and defense - as those are split entirely for sorc. Pressuring an enemy sorc if done right when not outright killing them will remove any offense of them from the fight.
They´re harder to support by their own group due to their defense mechanism being non scaling + being a class with litte healing synergy.GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Lol @Derra "they have to work" come play magnb with me buddy. Let's build some mercy stacks together. Lol "work" god I almost pee'd myself
Magblade is hot garbage this patch due to sustain issues regardless of what you do with it - except if you enjoy wasting everyones time by trolling them.
I can see your argument for shutting down into shield spam, but fail to see how this is any different for say a magplar. If magplar is pushed to defense, they are on their backbar and thats it. Sometimes magdk has the same problem, because they lack consistent rolling hots that stam has for example. Magicka classes in general are easier to lock down. Sorc however can streak away which they often do. People won't be chasing you in BGs like zerglings do in cyrodiil, because it is a waste of time. Guess which class regularly ends up with least deaths? Stamsorc and magsorc.
Ya but the big difference is the Magplar can handle several folks beating on them keeping them busy in the process, a Sorc can not. Sorcs defensive set isn't sufficient in this current healing meta. Healing > Shield by like 10 times right now. Steaking away is 50/50 at best as the skill is too slow and you get stun most of the time. 1 stun = dead Sorc these days. Look I'm not says other classes are much better off I'm just saying the direction of the game sucks and high MMR BG's suck for sorcs.
It's really hard to take these posts seriously. Shielding is worse than healing? Shields aren't subject to defiles, they eat status effects, and they keep you out of execute range. Effectively increasing your EHP while making most of that hp immune to defiles is by far the best way to mitigate damage for players without a sword and shield, so what do you think happens when you add a sword and shield to those players who can practically double their EHP?
Streak is the best mobility skill in the game besides maybe cloak. Come on. Do you know what other classes would give to have something as powerful as streak?
Shields in BGs suck ass and can't go over 1/2 HP's. You can heal too full in one GCD so ya healing is stronger. Shield aren't effected by defile because you can't buff them to get strong like healing so that fair. While steak is just ok in the mobility anyone with speed buff will catch you and kill you when you are out of mana. Gap closers? Ya thats a thing.
Half your hp is like 10-11k in a BG. That isn't "strong"? How much do you think vigor heals for in a BG?
Streak is better than any gap closer because it works both ways. You can only use a gap closer on a target. Streak gives you the mobility to both chase down a fleeing target or escape/kite if you need to. Until I can use a gap closer in any direction without a target, it isn't as good as Streak, lol. I would gladly give up any gap closer to Streak.Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer6 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There are plenty of magdk's running around in BGs ending up with 0 grouphealing. Coagulating blood, embers, and powerlash provide enough healing to stay alive and some choose to run harness.Tell me how it is easier for sorc to be garbage in group than other classes? I gave you examples, but got none in return. If you ask me, it is a lot easier to be hot garbage on medium stamblade because they die in 2 hits and dont offer any group utility if played the rolly polly way. Or what about the magdk with 0 group heals slotted?
Why would a magDK have 0 group heals slotted - that´s a debateable build choice.
Medium stamblade i agree - they have no place in 4v4v4 brawls with lots of ground aoe flying around.
Why is it easier for sorc to be *** in a group setting than other classes (and by other classes i mean heavy stam, magden, magplar and some magDK builds)?
They´re easier to shut down by a competent enemy group/players. This goes for offense and defense - as those are split entirely for sorc. Pressuring an enemy sorc if done right when not outright killing them will remove any offense of them from the fight.
They´re harder to support by their own group due to their defense mechanism being non scaling + being a class with litte healing synergy.GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Lol @Derra "they have to work" come play magnb with me buddy. Let's build some mercy stacks together. Lol "work" god I almost pee'd myself
Magblade is hot garbage this patch due to sustain issues regardless of what you do with it - except if you enjoy wasting everyones time by trolling them.
I can see your argument for shutting down into shield spam, but fail to see how this is any different for say a magplar. If magplar is pushed to defense, they are on their backbar and thats it. Sometimes magdk has the same problem, because they lack consistent rolling hots that stam has for example. Magicka classes in general are easier to lock down. Sorc however can streak away which they often do. People won't be chasing you in BGs like zerglings do in cyrodiil, because it is a waste of time. Guess which class regularly ends up with least deaths? Stamsorc and magsorc.
Ya but the big difference is the Magplar can handle several folks beating on them keeping them busy in the process, a Sorc can not. Sorcs defensive set isn't sufficient in this current healing meta. Healing > Shield by like 10 times right now. Steaking away is 50/50 at best as the skill is too slow and you get stun most of the time. 1 stun = dead Sorc these days. Look I'm not says other classes are much better off I'm just saying the direction of the game sucks and high MMR BG's suck for sorcs.
It's really hard to take these posts seriously. Shielding is worse than healing? Shields aren't subject to defiles, they eat status effects, and they keep you out of execute range. Effectively increasing your EHP while making most of that hp immune to defiles is by far the best way to mitigate damage for players without a sword and shield, so what do you think happens when you add a sword and shield to those players who can practically double their EHP?
Streak is the best mobility skill in the game besides maybe cloak. Come on. Do you know what other classes would give to have something as powerful as streak?
Shields in BGs suck ass and can't go over 1/2 HP's. You can heal too full in one GCD so ya healing is stronger. Shield aren't effected by defile because you can't buff them to get strong like healing so that fair. While steak is just ok in the mobility anyone with speed buff will catch you and kill you when you are out of mana. Gap closers? Ya thats a thing.
Half your hp is like 10-11k in a BG. That isn't "strong"? How much do you think vigor heals for in a BG?
Streak is better than any gap closer because it works both ways. You can only use a gap closer on a target. Streak gives you the mobility to both chase down a fleeing target or escape/kite if you need to. Until I can use a gap closer in any direction without a target, it isn't as good as Streak, lol. I would gladly give up any gap closer to Streak.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a sorc streak TO me though. They have a fully ranged kit. Wouldn’t benefit them to use it as a gap closer (unless for a stun which again isn’t really for a gap closer)
Ball of lightening is a positioning tool or a streak into never ever land and pull scrubs and blow em up lolz skill.0 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There are plenty of magdk's running around in BGs ending up with 0 grouphealing. Coagulating blood, embers, and powerlash provide enough healing to stay alive and some choose to run harness.Tell me how it is easier for sorc to be garbage in group than other classes? I gave you examples, but got none in return. If you ask me, it is a lot easier to be hot garbage on medium stamblade because they die in 2 hits and dont offer any group utility if played the rolly polly way. Or what about the magdk with 0 group heals slotted?
Why would a magDK have 0 group heals slotted - that´s a debateable build choice.
Medium stamblade i agree - they have no place in 4v4v4 brawls with lots of ground aoe flying around.
Why is it easier for sorc to be *** in a group setting than other classes (and by other classes i mean heavy stam, magden, magplar and some magDK builds)?
They´re easier to shut down by a competent enemy group/players. This goes for offense and defense - as those are split entirely for sorc. Pressuring an enemy sorc if done right when not outright killing them will remove any offense of them from the fight.
They´re harder to support by their own group due to their defense mechanism being non scaling + being a class with litte healing synergy.GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Lol @Derra "they have to work" come play magnb with me buddy. Let's build some mercy stacks together. Lol "work" god I almost pee'd myself
Magblade is hot garbage this patch due to sustain issues regardless of what you do with it - except if you enjoy wasting everyones time by trolling them.
I can see your argument for shutting down into shield spam, but fail to see how this is any different for say a magplar. If magplar is pushed to defense, they are on their backbar and thats it. Sometimes magdk has the same problem, because they lack consistent rolling hots that stam has for example. Magicka classes in general are easier to lock down. Sorc however can streak away which they often do. People won't be chasing you in BGs like zerglings do in cyrodiil, because it is a waste of time. Guess which class regularly ends up with least deaths? Stamsorc and magsorc.
Ya but the big difference is the Magplar can handle several folks beating on them keeping them busy in the process, a Sorc can not. Sorcs defensive set isn't sufficient in this current healing meta. Healing > Shield by like 10 times right now. Steaking away is 50/50 at best as the skill is too slow and you get stun most of the time. 1 stun = dead Sorc these days. Look I'm not says other classes are much better off I'm just saying the direction of the game sucks and high MMR BG's suck for sorcs.
It's really hard to take these posts seriously. Shielding is worse than healing? Shields aren't subject to defiles, they eat status effects, and they keep you out of execute range. Effectively increasing your EHP while making most of that hp immune to defiles is by far the best way to mitigate damage for players without a sword and shield, so what do you think happens when you add a sword and shield to those players who can practically double their EHP?
Streak is the best mobility skill in the game besides maybe cloak. Come on. Do you know what other classes would give to have something as powerful as streak?
Shields in BGs suck ass and can't go over 1/2 HP's. You can heal too full in one GCD so ya healing is stronger. Shield aren't effected by defile because you can't buff them to get strong like healing so that fair. While steak is just ok in the mobility anyone with speed buff will catch you and kill you when you are out of mana. Gap closers? Ya thats a thing.
Half your hp is like 10-11k in a BG. That isn't "strong"? How much do you think vigor heals for in a BG?
Streak is better than any gap closer because it works both ways. You can only use a gap closer on a target. Streak gives you the mobility to both chase down a fleeing target or escape/kite if you need to. Until I can use a gap closer in any direction without a target, it isn't as good as Streak, lol. I would gladly give up any gap closer to Streak.
show me a competitive build that has 11k harden ward? non pet sorc.Edited by bardx86 on July 2, 2019 11:05PM0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There are plenty of magdk's running around in BGs ending up with 0 grouphealing. Coagulating blood, embers, and powerlash provide enough healing to stay alive and some choose to run harness.Tell me how it is easier for sorc to be garbage in group than other classes? I gave you examples, but got none in return. If you ask me, it is a lot easier to be hot garbage on medium stamblade because they die in 2 hits and dont offer any group utility if played the rolly polly way. Or what about the magdk with 0 group heals slotted?
Why would a magDK have 0 group heals slotted - that´s a debateable build choice.
Medium stamblade i agree - they have no place in 4v4v4 brawls with lots of ground aoe flying around.
Why is it easier for sorc to be *** in a group setting than other classes (and by other classes i mean heavy stam, magden, magplar and some magDK builds)?
They´re easier to shut down by a competent enemy group/players. This goes for offense and defense - as those are split entirely for sorc. Pressuring an enemy sorc if done right when not outright killing them will remove any offense of them from the fight.
They´re harder to support by their own group due to their defense mechanism being non scaling + being a class with litte healing synergy.GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Lol @Derra "they have to work" come play magnb with me buddy. Let's build some mercy stacks together. Lol "work" god I almost pee'd myself
Magblade is hot garbage this patch due to sustain issues regardless of what you do with it - except if you enjoy wasting everyones time by trolling them.
I can see your argument for shutting down into shield spam, but fail to see how this is any different for say a magplar. If magplar is pushed to defense, they are on their backbar and thats it. Sometimes magdk has the same problem, because they lack consistent rolling hots that stam has for example. Magicka classes in general are easier to lock down. Sorc however can streak away which they often do. People won't be chasing you in BGs like zerglings do in cyrodiil, because it is a waste of time. Guess which class regularly ends up with least deaths? Stamsorc and magsorc.
Ya but the big difference is the Magplar can handle several folks beating on them keeping them busy in the process, a Sorc can not. Sorcs defensive set isn't sufficient in this current healing meta. Healing > Shield by like 10 times right now. Steaking away is 50/50 at best as the skill is too slow and you get stun most of the time. 1 stun = dead Sorc these days. Look I'm not says other classes are much better off I'm just saying the direction of the game sucks and high MMR BG's suck for sorcs.
It's really hard to take these posts seriously. Shielding is worse than healing? Shields aren't subject to defiles, they eat status effects, and they keep you out of execute range. Effectively increasing your EHP while making most of that hp immune to defiles is by far the best way to mitigate damage for players without a sword and shield, so what do you think happens when you add a sword and shield to those players who can practically double their EHP?
Streak is the best mobility skill in the game besides maybe cloak. Come on. Do you know what other classes would give to have something as powerful as streak?
Shields in BGs suck ass and can't go over 1/2 HP's. You can heal too full in one GCD so ya healing is stronger. Shield aren't effected by defile because you can't buff them to get strong like healing so that fair. While steak is just ok in the mobility anyone with speed buff will catch you and kill you when you are out of mana. Gap closers? Ya thats a thing.
Half your hp is like 10-11k in a BG. That isn't "strong"? How much do you think vigor heals for in a BG?
Streak is better than any gap closer because it works both ways. You can only use a gap closer on a target. Streak gives you the mobility to both chase down a fleeing target or escape/kite if you need to. Until I can use a gap closer in any direction without a target, it isn't as good as Streak, lol. I would gladly give up any gap closer to Streak.
show me a competitive build that has 11k harden ward? non pet sorc.
Necro+Alfiq lands somewhere around 15k I was told. Obviously need a pet for necro or shadowrend0 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There are plenty of magdk's running around in BGs ending up with 0 grouphealing. Coagulating blood, embers, and powerlash provide enough healing to stay alive and some choose to run harness.Tell me how it is easier for sorc to be garbage in group than other classes? I gave you examples, but got none in return. If you ask me, it is a lot easier to be hot garbage on medium stamblade because they die in 2 hits and dont offer any group utility if played the rolly polly way. Or what about the magdk with 0 group heals slotted?
Why would a magDK have 0 group heals slotted - that´s a debateable build choice.
Medium stamblade i agree - they have no place in 4v4v4 brawls with lots of ground aoe flying around.
Why is it easier for sorc to be *** in a group setting than other classes (and by other classes i mean heavy stam, magden, magplar and some magDK builds)?
They´re easier to shut down by a competent enemy group/players. This goes for offense and defense - as those are split entirely for sorc. Pressuring an enemy sorc if done right when not outright killing them will remove any offense of them from the fight.
They´re harder to support by their own group due to their defense mechanism being non scaling + being a class with litte healing synergy.GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Lol @Derra "they have to work" come play magnb with me buddy. Let's build some mercy stacks together. Lol "work" god I almost pee'd myself
Magblade is hot garbage this patch due to sustain issues regardless of what you do with it - except if you enjoy wasting everyones time by trolling them.
I can see your argument for shutting down into shield spam, but fail to see how this is any different for say a magplar. If magplar is pushed to defense, they are on their backbar and thats it. Sometimes magdk has the same problem, because they lack consistent rolling hots that stam has for example. Magicka classes in general are easier to lock down. Sorc however can streak away which they often do. People won't be chasing you in BGs like zerglings do in cyrodiil, because it is a waste of time. Guess which class regularly ends up with least deaths? Stamsorc and magsorc.
Ya but the big difference is the Magplar can handle several folks beating on them keeping them busy in the process, a Sorc can not. Sorcs defensive set isn't sufficient in this current healing meta. Healing > Shield by like 10 times right now. Steaking away is 50/50 at best as the skill is too slow and you get stun most of the time. 1 stun = dead Sorc these days. Look I'm not says other classes are much better off I'm just saying the direction of the game sucks and high MMR BG's suck for sorcs.
It's really hard to take these posts seriously. Shielding is worse than healing? Shields aren't subject to defiles, they eat status effects, and they keep you out of execute range. Effectively increasing your EHP while making most of that hp immune to defiles is by far the best way to mitigate damage for players without a sword and shield, so what do you think happens when you add a sword and shield to those players who can practically double their EHP?
Streak is the best mobility skill in the game besides maybe cloak. Come on. Do you know what other classes would give to have something as powerful as streak?
Shields in BGs suck ass and can't go over 1/2 HP's. You can heal too full in one GCD so ya healing is stronger. Shield aren't effected by defile because you can't buff them to get strong like healing so that fair. While steak is just ok in the mobility anyone with speed buff will catch you and kill you when you are out of mana. Gap closers? Ya thats a thing.
Half your hp is like 10-11k in a BG. That isn't "strong"? How much do you think vigor heals for in a BG?
Streak is better than any gap closer because it works both ways. You can only use a gap closer on a target. Streak gives you the mobility to both chase down a fleeing target or escape/kite if you need to. Until I can use a gap closer in any direction without a target, it isn't as good as Streak, lol. I would gladly give up any gap closer to Streak.
show me a competitive build that has 11k harden ward? non pet sorc.
Necro+Alfiq lands somewhere around 15k I was told. Obviously need a pet for necro or shadowrend
not in BG's man0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
There are plenty of magdk's running around in BGs ending up with 0 grouphealing. Coagulating blood, embers, and powerlash provide enough healing to stay alive and some choose to run harness.Tell me how it is easier for sorc to be garbage in group than other classes? I gave you examples, but got none in return. If you ask me, it is a lot easier to be hot garbage on medium stamblade because they die in 2 hits and dont offer any group utility if played the rolly polly way. Or what about the magdk with 0 group heals slotted?
Why would a magDK have 0 group heals slotted - that´s a debateable build choice.
Medium stamblade i agree - they have no place in 4v4v4 brawls with lots of ground aoe flying around.
Why is it easier for sorc to be *** in a group setting than other classes (and by other classes i mean heavy stam, magden, magplar and some magDK builds)?
They´re easier to shut down by a competent enemy group/players. This goes for offense and defense - as those are split entirely for sorc. Pressuring an enemy sorc if done right when not outright killing them will remove any offense of them from the fight.
They´re harder to support by their own group due to their defense mechanism being non scaling + being a class with litte healing synergy.GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Lol @Derra "they have to work" come play magnb with me buddy. Let's build some mercy stacks together. Lol "work" god I almost pee'd myself
Magblade is hot garbage this patch due to sustain issues regardless of what you do with it - except if you enjoy wasting everyones time by trolling them.
I can see your argument for shutting down into shield spam, but fail to see how this is any different for say a magplar. If magplar is pushed to defense, they are on their backbar and thats it. Sometimes magdk has the same problem, because they lack consistent rolling hots that stam has for example. Magicka classes in general are easier to lock down. Sorc however can streak away which they often do. People won't be chasing you in BGs like zerglings do in cyrodiil, because it is a waste of time. Guess which class regularly ends up with least deaths? Stamsorc and magsorc.
Ya but the big difference is the Magplar can handle several folks beating on them keeping them busy in the process, a Sorc can not. Sorcs defensive set isn't sufficient in this current healing meta. Healing > Shield by like 10 times right now. Steaking away is 50/50 at best as the skill is too slow and you get stun most of the time. 1 stun = dead Sorc these days. Look I'm not says other classes are much better off I'm just saying the direction of the game sucks and high MMR BG's suck for sorcs.
It's really hard to take these posts seriously. Shielding is worse than healing? Shields aren't subject to defiles, they eat status effects, and they keep you out of execute range. Effectively increasing your EHP while making most of that hp immune to defiles is by far the best way to mitigate damage for players without a sword and shield, so what do you think happens when you add a sword and shield to those players who can practically double their EHP?
Streak is the best mobility skill in the game besides maybe cloak. Come on. Do you know what other classes would give to have something as powerful as streak?
Completely the opposite.
Shields are not affected by Mending, Vitality and the healing CPs. Rather, they are capped, but still affected by shield damage CP.
Heals absolutely take you out of execute range. Shields will keep you there, once brought to low hp. Why do you think every sorc used to run Healing Ward and now slots a healing pet? Because shields keep you out of execute range 24/7? Not quite.
What happens when you add a sword and board to shields? Nothing. Can't mitigate shield damage. It's the damage that inevitably bleeds through, which the board is used for. If shields were as impenetrable as you believe, there would be no need for S&B, everyone would be on resto or even a second destro.4 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭While it's certainly true magicka sorcs are a top tier pick atm, how about we go around buffing other classes rather than continue nerfing every single top class in the game every patch? So you want to nerf shields and buff sorcs healing? What happened to unique and different classes, do you just want classes to be the exact same thing with different visuals?
This mentality is exactly why classes feel so much less unique than they did in the past. Remember when templars had major mending and a more powerful repentance? Or when nightblades had siphoning strikes which allowed them to have one of the best sustain (alongside off resource sustain) so long as they remained on the offensive. Or when they had critical healing when they went into cloak. Or when dragon knights had reflect (which worked on meteors too). Remember crit surge healing? Can we just stop ripping unique stuff from classes please?Edited by Rikumaru on July 3, 2019 12:18AMOverload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.1 -
ccmedaddy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Not to mention that shields can't crit while heals can, which makes a huge difference.
There are plenty of magdk's running around in BGs ending up with 0 grouphealing. Coagulating blood, embers, and powerlash provide enough healing to stay alive and some choose to run harness.Tell me how it is easier for sorc to be garbage in group than other classes? I gave you examples, but got none in return. If you ask me, it is a lot easier to be hot garbage on medium stamblade because they die in 2 hits and dont offer any group utility if played the rolly polly way. Or what about the magdk with 0 group heals slotted?
Why would a magDK have 0 group heals slotted - that´s a debateable build choice.
Medium stamblade i agree - they have no place in 4v4v4 brawls with lots of ground aoe flying around.
Why is it easier for sorc to be *** in a group setting than other classes (and by other classes i mean heavy stam, magden, magplar and some magDK builds)?
They´re easier to shut down by a competent enemy group/players. This goes for offense and defense - as those are split entirely for sorc. Pressuring an enemy sorc if done right when not outright killing them will remove any offense of them from the fight.
They´re harder to support by their own group due to their defense mechanism being non scaling + being a class with litte healing synergy.GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Lol @Derra "they have to work" come play magnb with me buddy. Let's build some mercy stacks together. Lol "work" god I almost pee'd myself
Magblade is hot garbage this patch due to sustain issues regardless of what you do with it - except if you enjoy wasting everyones time by trolling them.
I can see your argument for shutting down into shield spam, but fail to see how this is any different for say a magplar. If magplar is pushed to defense, they are on their backbar and thats it. Sometimes magdk has the same problem, because they lack consistent rolling hots that stam has for example. Magicka classes in general are easier to lock down. Sorc however can streak away which they often do. People won't be chasing you in BGs like zerglings do in cyrodiil, because it is a waste of time. Guess which class regularly ends up with least deaths? Stamsorc and magsorc.
Ya but the big difference is the Magplar can handle several folks beating on them keeping them busy in the process, a Sorc can not. Sorcs defensive set isn't sufficient in this current healing meta. Healing > Shield by like 10 times right now. Steaking away is 50/50 at best as the skill is too slow and you get stun most of the time. 1 stun = dead Sorc these days. Look I'm not says other classes are much better off I'm just saying the direction of the game sucks and high MMR BG's suck for sorcs.
It's really hard to take these posts seriously. Shielding is worse than healing? Shields aren't subject to defiles, they eat status effects, and they keep you out of execute range. Effectively increasing your EHP while making most of that hp immune to defiles is by far the best way to mitigate damage for players without a sword and shield, so what do you think happens when you add a sword and shield to those players who can practically double their EHP?
Streak is the best mobility skill in the game besides maybe cloak. Come on. Do you know what other classes would give to have something as powerful as streak?
Completely the opposite.
Shields are not affected by Mending, Vitality and the healing CPs. Rather, they are capped, but still affected by shield damage CP.
Heals absolutely take you out of execute range. Shields will keep you there, once brought to low hp. Why do you think every sorc used to run Healing Ward and now slots a healing pet? Because shields keep you out of execute range 24/7? Not quite.
What happens when you add a sword and board to shields? Nothing. Can't mitigate shield damage. It's the damage that inevitably bleeds through, which the board is used for. If shields were as impenetrable as you believe, there would be no need for S&B, everyone would be on resto or even a second destro.
While I wouldn't deny that shields do have some advantages (e.g. the fact that they're a proactive defense rather than reactive) the idea that shields are overpowered in comparison to other defense mechanics like block, roll dodge, healing is just absurd.
With that said, I still think magsorcs need to be nerfed a bit. Just not in the way that affects all other mag classes that also depend on shields for survival.1 -
Imryll✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »mook-eb16_ESO wrote: »why is this thread a thing in a stamina dominated meta?
From a PvE perspective: no reason for this thread to exist, as you pointed out, Stam meta.
From a PvP perspective: Magsorcs are incredibly strong, by far the strongest Magicka class and overall one of the best PvP builds and due to their incredible burst + reactive execute very hard to counter. Plus they have one of the best PvP ultimates (Negate) and very strong self-heals/shields. Plus pets in PvE are incredibly annoying and are a massive pita due to the really bad targeting system this game has, e.g. alone due to their size they act as some kind of secondary defense on top.
Stamina builds are in general stronger than magicka ones in PvP. Sorc is the one notable exception.
Did you know that pet sorcs actually don't use Fury? You gotta pay the two Twilight slots somehow, and there's the big sacrifice. Something that certain people here like to ignore...
I really don’t see the sacrifice at all. Twilight has an amazing heal, is very helpful for LoS and hiding behind it due to bad targeting, it deals a good amount of damage AND it’s always active and fully autonomic, e.g. you have to summon it once and it does all the stuff without you (except the healing).
I know that Stamina builds are generally stronger than Magicka builds but I’d still put Sorcerer at least on par.
Two slots and the good chance that your healing spell has wandered off and gotten itself killed when you urgently need its services. The healing spell may be instant cast, but resummoning the pet in order to ask it to heal you heal isn't.1 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only viable way that I can see mag sorc being nerfed while still being allowed to keep pets is to make shields into a major/minor system. Hardened and annulment will be major shields and healing ward and other small shields will be minor shields. This would make it to where sorcs couldn’t stack two major shields. The class would still have plenty of survivability but wouldn’t be as toxic to fight against.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Not to mention that shields can't crit while heals can, which makes a huge difference.
There are plenty of magdk's running around in BGs ending up with 0 grouphealing. Coagulating blood, embers, and powerlash provide enough healing to stay alive and some choose to run harness.Tell me how it is easier for sorc to be garbage in group than other classes? I gave you examples, but got none in return. If you ask me, it is a lot easier to be hot garbage on medium stamblade because they die in 2 hits and dont offer any group utility if played the rolly polly way. Or what about the magdk with 0 group heals slotted?
Why would a magDK have 0 group heals slotted - that´s a debateable build choice.
Medium stamblade i agree - they have no place in 4v4v4 brawls with lots of ground aoe flying around.
Why is it easier for sorc to be *** in a group setting than other classes (and by other classes i mean heavy stam, magden, magplar and some magDK builds)?
They´re easier to shut down by a competent enemy group/players. This goes for offense and defense - as those are split entirely for sorc. Pressuring an enemy sorc if done right when not outright killing them will remove any offense of them from the fight.
They´re harder to support by their own group due to their defense mechanism being non scaling + being a class with litte healing synergy.GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Lol @Derra "they have to work" come play magnb with me buddy. Let's build some mercy stacks together. Lol "work" god I almost pee'd myself
Magblade is hot garbage this patch due to sustain issues regardless of what you do with it - except if you enjoy wasting everyones time by trolling them.
I can see your argument for shutting down into shield spam, but fail to see how this is any different for say a magplar. If magplar is pushed to defense, they are on their backbar and thats it. Sometimes magdk has the same problem, because they lack consistent rolling hots that stam has for example. Magicka classes in general are easier to lock down. Sorc however can streak away which they often do. People won't be chasing you in BGs like zerglings do in cyrodiil, because it is a waste of time. Guess which class regularly ends up with least deaths? Stamsorc and magsorc.
Ya but the big difference is the Magplar can handle several folks beating on them keeping them busy in the process, a Sorc can not. Sorcs defensive set isn't sufficient in this current healing meta. Healing > Shield by like 10 times right now. Steaking away is 50/50 at best as the skill is too slow and you get stun most of the time. 1 stun = dead Sorc these days. Look I'm not says other classes are much better off I'm just saying the direction of the game sucks and high MMR BG's suck for sorcs.
It's really hard to take these posts seriously. Shielding is worse than healing? Shields aren't subject to defiles, they eat status effects, and they keep you out of execute range. Effectively increasing your EHP while making most of that hp immune to defiles is by far the best way to mitigate damage for players without a sword and shield, so what do you think happens when you add a sword and shield to those players who can practically double their EHP?
Streak is the best mobility skill in the game besides maybe cloak. Come on. Do you know what other classes would give to have something as powerful as streak?
Completely the opposite.
Shields are not affected by Mending, Vitality and the healing CPs. Rather, they are capped, but still affected by shield damage CP.
Heals absolutely take you out of execute range. Shields will keep you there, once brought to low hp. Why do you think every sorc used to run Healing Ward and now slots a healing pet? Because shields keep you out of execute range 24/7? Not quite.
What happens when you add a sword and board to shields? Nothing. Can't mitigate shield damage. It's the damage that inevitably bleeds through, which the board is used for. If shields were as impenetrable as you believe, there would be no need for S&B, everyone would be on resto or even a second destro.
While I wouldn't deny that shields do have some advantages (e.g. the fact that they're a proactive defense rather than reactive) the idea that shields are overpowered in comparison to other defense mechanics like block, roll dodge, healing is just absurd.
With that said, I still think magsorcs need to be nerfed a bit. Just not in the way that affects all other mag classes that also depend on shields for survival.
The crit! Good call! Forgot to mention!
Nerf is easy, IMO, tune down Matriarch damage. Done. Indirekt nerfs like fixing LoS and Harness' insane magicka return are also welcome.0
