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The "Balance" of Mag Sorcs
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Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭I didn’t understand why CPs could imbalance pvp so much, I think it’s dodge and block cost reduction? The red and blue trees should mostly just offset each other, I think it’s the green tree with block and dodge roll cost reduction?
Dodge rolling cost reduction is easy enough to nerf without effecting pve, block could pose problems. Maybe just make more player cc go through block if it’s an issue, I only play no-CP so have no idea what the issues even are.
They could lower the % gained below 50 points to climb faster the more points invested instead of start off fast and slow down. Everyone hits stupid hard because of being able to spread out points and get 90% of pen/crit/mag-phys dmg/direct etc.1 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »My 2 cents are, how to counter streak?
Everytime I fight a MagSorc and I get trough his shields damage its health, first thing is streak 3 times. Whats up with that skill. I has no counter for myself as a magwarden. There are gap closer abilities but even those if you aim fast enough and it fires the sorcs already streaked from that position.
I find the game mechanic in making streak more expensive says so much. Because there is no actual player counter that the game itself is the counter needed for this skill.
I would love to see a change to streak which allow players to counter it rather than a nerf or change in game mechanics of the skill itself.
You can counter streak on any class that has access to a gapcloser.
Unfortunately magica necro and warden are lacking those and you´re right these two classes can´t counter a streaking sorc. That´s an oversight on those classes design though imo. 10/12 classes can counter streak if they play it properly.
You can semi counter it, if they streak through you they would of already streaked again by the time you actually break free and turn the camera around and by that point are out of gap closer range.
You don't even need a gap closer, just speed. If you chase a streaking sort with max speed the sorc is oom and dead. Streak isn't that great it 50/50 if you are gonna get stunned and killed. Sorcs sustain is garbage intact the cost increase on streak should be toned down.1 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭oxygen_thief wrote: »
how does it help you to fight against stamina? if you can defeat stamina player without harness why do you need it in a fight against magicka? i dont have any problems with sustain without harness. dark conversion helps a lot.Try playing without harness on a sorc and you will see how much BAD (the worst) sustain sorc have.
You don't necessarily need it. But vs a good magic target you will be a disadvantage.0 -
Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Slot a gap closer... that's literally all it takes.leepalmer95 wrote: »My 2 cents are, how to counter streak?
Everytime I fight a MagSorc and I get trough his shields damage its health, first thing is streak 3 times. Whats up with that skill. I has no counter for myself as a magwarden. There are gap closer abilities but even those if you aim fast enough and it fires the sorcs already streaked from that position.
I find the game mechanic in making streak more expensive says so much. Because there is no actual player counter that the game itself is the counter needed for this skill.
I would love to see a change to streak which allow players to counter it rather than a nerf or change in game mechanics of the skill itself.
You can counter streak on any class that has access to a gapcloser.
Unfortunately magica necro and warden are lacking those and you´re right these two classes can´t counter a streaking sorc. That´s an oversight on those classes design though imo. 10/12 classes can counter streak if they play it properly.
You can semi counter it, if they streak through you they would of already streaked again by the time you actually break free and turn the camera around and by that point are out of gap closer range.
Imo it´s harder to kill a nb with cloak and shade than a sorc with streak 1v1 if the only thing they want to achieve is get away.
invis pot and its countered, wtb anti streak pot. Streaking sorcs are far harder to counter than cloak, imo.
They still fail to hit or activate on Console reliably. They worked for about a week then pretty much stopped.
Which sucks because I was loving toppling charge recently.
They also have strange animation times.
Streak works extremely well ( not 100% of the time but most)
Most the time you gap close to the pet ( the sorc has already cast streak another time or two) the pet teleports next to the sorc out of range on gap closers.
As soon as they changed it I spent a whole day spamming multiple gap closer to test reliability.
They went from 10% to about 85% now there around 60% successful0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What is this new trend with everyone wanting streak specific counters. Its dumb. Its like saying i want wings counter or purge counter or shadow image counter. They do not have specific counters. They are unique abilities fitting the theme/design of their classes. Just like its hard to debuff a templar, just like its hard to range down a DK with wings, just like its hard to catch a NB with cloak and shadow image, the same way its hard to catch a streaking sorc if you are playing with a slow class and no gap closer. They are supposed to be the fastest class. They should be hard to pin down. You dont get specific counters just because its inconvenient for you to fight against specific playstyles.
The issue isnt sorc mobility. The issue is that their mobility is paired with 20k shields complemented with 25k resistances and 25k+ hp and pets that get in ur way.4 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sure cp needs reworked but the idea that it should just go away and players who have played for years are now on par with someone who picked up the game a few weeks back is pretty silly. (Sans gear)
i find it silly that you think you need stat-based competitive advantages over others simply because you've played the game longer. Let your experience and skill crafted over many sessions of play be the crutch you lean on to beat your opponent. Have some self respect.
Because getting carried by master dual wield and troll king in no cp is so much more skillfull....
Lmao7 -
mursie✭✭✭✭✭Sure cp needs reworked but the idea that it should just go away and players who have played for years are now on par with someone who picked up the game a few weeks back is pretty silly. (Sans gear)
i find it silly that you think you need stat-based competitive advantages over others simply because you've played the game longer. Let your experience and skill crafted over many sessions of play be the crutch you lean on to beat your opponent. Have some self respect.
Because getting carried by master dual wield and troll king in no cp is so much more skillfull....
Lmao
you mean the bugged master dual wield that doesn't even add the bonus damage to the final tick of the bleed? You know, the nerfed bleed patched months ago.
or are you crying about your inability to run vet blessed crucible resulting in you dieing to pro pve'ers dominating you with troll king?
you're laughable trying to defend actual 25%+ stat advantage crutches given to max cp players over low CP players by discussing gear sets available to everyone by doing simple pve designed for sub cp300 players.
when i hear clowns discuss no-cp as a gear carry zone... i laugh. because clowns make me laugh.
what's up clown.4 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sure cp needs reworked but the idea that it should just go away and players who have played for years are now on par with someone who picked up the game a few weeks back is pretty silly. (Sans gear)
i find it silly that you think you need stat-based competitive advantages over others simply because you've played the game longer. Let your experience and skill crafted over many sessions of play be the crutch you lean on to beat your opponent. Have some self respect.
Because getting carried by master dual wield and troll king in no cp is so much more skillfull....
Lmao
you mean the bugged master dual wield that doesn't even add the bonus damage to the final tick of the bleed? You know, the nerfed bleed patched months ago.
or are you crying about your inability to run vet blessed crucible resulting in you dieing to pro pve'ers dominating you with troll king?
you're laughable trying to defend actual 25%+ stat advantage crutches given to max cp players over low CP players by discussing gear sets available to everyone by doing simple pve designed for sub cp300 players.
when i hear clowns discuss no-cp as a gear carry zone... i laugh. because clowns make me laugh.
what's up clown.
No disrespect intended- are you max CP?0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sure cp needs reworked but the idea that it should just go away and players who have played for years are now on par with someone who picked up the game a few weeks back is pretty silly. (Sans gear)
i find it silly that you think you need stat-based competitive advantages over others simply because you've played the game longer. Let your experience and skill crafted over many sessions of play be the crutch you lean on to beat your opponent. Have some self respect.
Because getting carried by master dual wield and troll king in no cp is so much more skillfull....
Lmao
you mean the bugged master dual wield that doesn't even add the bonus damage to the final tick of the bleed? You know, the nerfed bleed patched months ago.
or are you crying about your inability to run vet blessed crucible resulting in you dieing to pro pve'ers dominating you with troll king?
you're laughable trying to defend actual 25%+ stat advantage crutches given to max cp players over low CP players by discussing gear sets available to everyone by doing simple pve designed for sub cp300 players.
when i hear clowns discuss no-cp as a gear carry zone... i laugh. because clowns make me laugh.
what's up clown.
I've played exclusively no-cp since Murkmire (with the exception of a few times in cp ic) and it's obvious what carries people in no cp. And no cp is by no ways more balanced than cp.
And the only one people laugh at is u mursie for u and your "crusade" against cP iS a CrUtCh1 -
ccmedaddy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Guys, both CP and np-CP suck. Let's go back to nerfing magsorc
Edited by ccmedaddy on June 28, 2019 9:11PM6 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭No cp open world pvp is really unbalanced for those who enjoy outnumbered fights.
I would rather that they cap cp at 500 or so.1 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭reduce streak range by 30%
cap dmg shield at 35%
redesign mages wrath, that ability is just plain *** and an absolute nobrainer
Pets should just be targeted for single target abilities if the player tabbed willingly on the pet via tabtarget, but i guess thats far to hard to implement, so just lower pet health and raise their casttime, so you are actually able to active counter them by killing them
And now tell me how a sorc that doesn´t abuse pets or shieldstacking would be supposed to even play the class anymore...
This is the problem with people who want to nerf sorcs. They don´t care or understand the class - so just carpetbomb it to ***. Just nerf every ability that might be slightly inconvenient to fight against.
Why nerf the shield - when you can adress stacking that´s the issue in 95% of the cases (the others being too little dmg on the attacker side).
Why nerf streak at all atm - high stacking cost. The only reliable class cc and is already only 15m range + gapcloser are finally useable again.
And pets is just an all around stupid approach. They already die like flies in larger encouters and are 1 or 2shot for competent player - effectively being able to lock the sorc into recast + shielding with that.
Pets need to be not attackable - because being able to los but also die is the biggest scaling variable in the viability of these skills. A variable that can´t be controlled at that bc it depends on number and braincells of the enemy players.
To eliminate that you have to make pets unattackable. That removes los and it removes eventual downtimes you´d otherwise need to consider in their scaling.
Then you can go and massively cut matriarch dmg and rework the heal to sth not as much resembling bol.
You can give their (auto) attacks a minimal magica cost to prevent them from being free dmg (apart from slots).
You can finally begin to weight them against other skills without having to consider uptime and recasts and all that nonsense you can´t control.
Essentially to balance pets you need to rework them completely...
Don´t know if i agree on mages wrath. It´s mainly a bg killstealer and potatokiller. If i have to fight a competent player the first skill i remove from my bar is mages wrath.
No idea if the BG problem could be solved otherwise.
Hey @Derra do you slot mages wrath? ...
Edit- just saw your last comment t about wrath lol. I was asking because my follow up was going to be that most sorcs have removed that from their bars. The guy you are responding to has no clue what hes talking about. Mages wrath is a funny skill, it's great for potatoe smashing but then again so are 100 other skills.Edited by Malamar1229 on June 28, 2019 10:26PM0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sure cp needs reworked but the idea that it should just go away and players who have played for years are now on par with someone who picked up the game a few weeks back is pretty silly. (Sans gear)
i find it silly that you think you need stat-based competitive advantages over others simply because you've played the game longer. Let your experience and skill crafted over many sessions of play be the crutch you lean on to beat your opponent. Have some self respect.
Lol where do these ppl come from...bdo?
Skilled players shouldnt be put behind a time wall like CP just because they cant log in every day for a few hours.2 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Malamar1229 wrote: »Sure cp needs reworked but the idea that it should just go away and players who have played for years are now on par with someone who picked up the game a few weeks back is pretty silly. (Sans gear)
i find it silly that you think you need stat-based competitive advantages over others simply because you've played the game longer. Let your experience and skill crafted over many sessions of play be the crutch you lean on to beat your opponent. Have some self respect.
Lol where do these ppl come from...bdo?
Skilled players shouldnt be put behind a time wall like CP just because they cant log in every day for a few hours.
CANT WAIT FOR THE MORTAL KOMBAT PATCH0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »I've done both for years; simply put, CP is way more forgiving.
Oh absolutely. More mitigation’s, more max stat, better regen. Bigger build diversity.
1 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭reduce streak range by 30%
cap dmg shield at 35%
redesign mages wrath, that ability is just plain *** and an absolute nobrainer
Pets should just be targeted for single target abilities if the player tabbed willingly on the pet via tabtarget, but i guess thats far to hard to implement, so just lower pet health and raise their casttime, so you are actually able to active counter them by killing them
And now tell me how a sorc that doesn´t abuse pets or shieldstacking would be supposed to even play the class anymore...
This is the problem with people who want to nerf sorcs. They don´t care or understand the class - so just carpetbomb it to ***. Just nerf every ability that might be slightly inconvenient to fight against.
Why nerf the shield - when you can adress stacking that´s the issue in 95% of the cases (the others being too little dmg on the attacker side).
Why nerf streak at all atm - high stacking cost. The only reliable class cc and is already only 15m range + gapcloser are finally useable again.
And pets is just an all around stupid approach. They already die like flies in larger encouters and are 1 or 2shot for competent player - effectively being able to lock the sorc into recast + shielding with that.
Pets need to be not attackable - because being able to los but also die is the biggest scaling variable in the viability of these skills. A variable that can´t be controlled at that bc it depends on number and braincells of the enemy players.
To eliminate that you have to make pets unattackable. That removes los and it removes eventual downtimes you´d otherwise need to consider in their scaling.
Then you can go and massively cut matriarch dmg and rework the heal to sth not as much resembling bol.
You can give their (auto) attacks a minimal magica cost to prevent them from being free dmg (apart from slots).
You can finally begin to weight them against other skills without having to consider uptime and recasts and all that nonsense you can´t control.
Essentially to balance pets you need to rework them completely...
Don´t know if i agree on mages wrath. It´s mainly a bg killstealer and potatokiller. If i have to fight a competent player the first skill i remove from my bar is mages wrath.
No idea if the BG problem could be solved otherwise.
I dont know if nerfing shieldstacking is a good change. Sometimes outnumbered fights last for quite a while.
Do you really think a non breton mag sorc can sustain or tank out damage for extended period of time without stacking ?0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Malamar1229 wrote: »Sure cp needs reworked but the idea that it should just go away and players who have played for years are now on par with someone who picked up the game a few weeks back is pretty silly. (Sans gear)
i find it silly that you think you need stat-based competitive advantages over others simply because you've played the game longer. Let your experience and skill crafted over many sessions of play be the crutch you lean on to beat your opponent. Have some self respect.
Lol where do these ppl come from...bdo?
Skilled players shouldnt be put behind a time wall like CP just because they cant log in every day for a few hours.
CANT WAIT FOR THE MORTAL KOMBAT PATCH
Realize I've been playing since beta so that's an unbiased opinion, I have 1200 CP or so.
That said, any bad can play every day for countless hours....but that lifestyle shouldn't trump the guy who can only play a few hours a week but is extremely skilled.2 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Malamar1229 wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »Sure cp needs reworked but the idea that it should just go away and players who have played for years are now on par with someone who picked up the game a few weeks back is pretty silly. (Sans gear)
i find it silly that you think you need stat-based competitive advantages over others simply because you've played the game longer. Let your experience and skill crafted over many sessions of play be the crutch you lean on to beat your opponent. Have some self respect.
Lol where do these ppl come from...bdo?
Skilled players shouldnt be put behind a time wall like CP just because they cant log in every day for a few hours.
CANT WAIT FOR THE MORTAL KOMBAT PATCH
Realize I've been playing since beta so that's an unbiased opinion, I have 1200 CP or so.
That said, any bad can play every day for countless hours....but that lifestyle shouldn't trump the guy who can only play a few hours a week but is extremely skilled.
While I agree- to an extent, there is no-cp available for those players. BGs even.
There’s also clear low level transfers who do well.
Also easy ways to grind cp. And exp enlightenment stacks like a week to speed things up for those that can’t get on every day.
No it’s not a FPS where everyone is instantly on the same playing field... and that’s ok cuz there’s different game modes available. Gold makes as much of a difference as CP.0 -
MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sure cp needs reworked but the idea that it should just go away and players who have played for years are now on par with someone who picked up the game a few weeks back is pretty silly. (Sans gear)
i find it silly that you think you need stat-based competitive advantages over others simply because you've played the game longer. Let your experience and skill crafted over many sessions of play be the crutch you lean on to beat your opponent. Have some self respect.
Because getting carried by master dual wield and troll king in no cp is so much more skillfull....
Lmao
Master DW and Troll King are just as effective in CP. In fact troll king is a bigger crutch in CP than it is in no CP.
I don't get the point you're trying to make.
More importantly, sorcs double their hp with shields in CP. #nerfmagsorcsPhoenixGrey wrote: »No cp open world pvp is really unbalanced for those who enjoy outnumbered fights.
I would rather that they cap cp at 500 or so.
Outnumbered fights/1vx is just another name for seal clubbing. They're only possible due to CP advantage or huge skill gaps.
Oh btw, sorcs are the best seal clubbing class in the game #nerfmagsorcsEdited by MaxJrFTW on June 29, 2019 1:24AM"I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 4331 -
Rolexdt✭✭Anyhow who says sorcs aren't playing on "God mode" is a sorc or delusional. By far the cheapest class in this game.7
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PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Outnumbered fights/1vx is just another name for seal clubbing. They're only possible due to CP advantage or huge skill gaps.
Oh btw, sorcs are the best seal clubbing class in the game #nerfmagsorcs
IDK about seal clubbing. Some people only enjoy outnumbered PVP in this game. I wouldn't step into BG's if cyrodil wasn't so laggy all the time.0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why BGs are fun. You’re only fighting outnumbered if you lack situational awareness.
First place I go to test a build is BGs, if you can do well there you can do well anywhere, if you can’t you’re a carry.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »
Outnumbered fights/1vx is just another name for seal clubbing. They're only possible due to CP advantage or huge skill gaps.
Oh btw, sorcs are the best seal clubbing class in the game #nerfmagsorcs
IDK about seal clubbing. Some people only enjoy outnumbered PVP in this game. I wouldn't step into BG's if cyrodil wasn't so laggy all the time.
Even when you die outnumbered- If you just make some cool plays it can be entertaining.0 -
MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »
Outnumbered fights/1vx is just another name for seal clubbing. They're only possible due to CP advantage or huge skill gaps.
Oh btw, sorcs are the best seal clubbing class in the game #nerfmagsorcs
IDK about seal clubbing. Some people only enjoy outnumbered PVP in this game. I wouldn't step into BG's if cyrodil wasn't so laggy all the time.
You think it's possible to fight outnumbered against equally skilled players without a considerable cp gap and win?
You probably do, but you're also the same deluded person that thinks magsorcs aren't op right now..."I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 4333 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »
Outnumbered fights/1vx is just another name for seal clubbing. They're only possible due to CP advantage or huge skill gaps.
Oh btw, sorcs are the best seal clubbing class in the game #nerfmagsorcs
IDK about seal clubbing. Some people only enjoy outnumbered PVP in this game. I wouldn't step into BG's if cyrodil wasn't so laggy all the time.
You think it's possible to fight outnumbered against equally skilled players without a considerable cp gap and win?
You probably do, but you're also the same deluded person that thinks magsorcs aren't op right now...
It is, at some point it becomes about a different kind of skill. There’s solo 1vX skill and there’s group pvp skill I guess you could say. There are people who 1vX who can do things I never could.
It’s more like a philosophy, once you get around 24 people playing on the same page you can take like 4x your number. The people you’re beating might still be skilled, just not in group dynamics.
I see this a lot in cyrodiil. People are like, ‘come duel me bra’, and it’s like why would I, my group of 24 just took out 60 of you and dueling is such a small subset of pvp. I think it’s world of wankers who started this? I’m not sure, there were some guildies who won dueling tournaments in WoW and now people think that’s all there is to pvp.Edited by Iskiab on June 29, 2019 5:09AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »
Outnumbered fights/1vx is just another name for seal clubbing. They're only possible due to CP advantage or huge skill gaps.
Oh btw, sorcs are the best seal clubbing class in the game #nerfmagsorcs
IDK about seal clubbing. Some people only enjoy outnumbered PVP in this game. I wouldn't step into BG's if cyrodil wasn't so laggy all the time.
You think it's possible to fight outnumbered against equally skilled players without a considerable cp gap and win?
You probably do, but you're also the same deluded person that thinks magsorcs aren't op right now...
I don't know what's the definition of equally skilled is in this game nor do i care about it. Those are the standards which guys like you want to define. There is honestly not much CP gap nowdays since the CP cap has not been changed for a bit.
I am a paying customer of ZOS who wants to enjoy outnumbered PVP on my mag sorc. If not mag sorc there are a few other classes which we can now choose from. Its literally that simple for me mate
0 -
MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »
Outnumbered fights/1vx is just another name for seal clubbing. They're only possible due to CP advantage or huge skill gaps.
Oh btw, sorcs are the best seal clubbing class in the game #nerfmagsorcs
IDK about seal clubbing. Some people only enjoy outnumbered PVP in this game. I wouldn't step into BG's if cyrodil wasn't so laggy all the time.
You think it's possible to fight outnumbered against equally skilled players without a considerable cp gap and win?
You probably do, but you're also the same deluded person that thinks magsorcs aren't op right now...
It is, at some point it becomes about a different kind of skill. There’s solo 1vX skill and there’s group pvp skill I guess you could say. There are people who 1vX who can do things I never could.
It’s more like a philosophy, once you get around 24 people playing on the same page you can take like 4x your number. The people you’re beating might still be skilled, just not in group dynamics.
I see this a lot in cyrodiil. People are like, ‘come duel me bra’, and it’s like why would I, my group of 24 just took out 60 of you and dueling is such a small subset of pvp. I think it’s world of wankers who started this? I’m not sure, there were some guildies who won dueling tournaments in WoW and now people think that’s all there is to pvp.
Do you know what the word equal means?"I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 4331
