Chat delay 10 minutes, guilds disappeared, friends disappeared PC-EU after maintenance 6/10/2019

burglar

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

...

So, let's be clear here. My objection was the original use of the word unplayable, meaning cannot be played. This is hyperbole as it is only a tiny amount of people who are affected in this way and the chances are it's not the game but their internet connection or PC that has a problem. If it was the servers then it would be far more widespread.

The issues at the moment appear to be server capacity and bandwidth, we are told that this is being worked on, we have been told that before so ZOS will excuse me if I don't take it at face value. The current issue appears to have been some error during the patch, but as we are not being told very much it is just guesswork on our part.

ZOS needs to address player concerns over performance as a priority for certain, they must, by now, surely see that. They need to do better and more rigorous QA testing of patches before release. I think we can all agree on that statement, however I stand by my comment that the game is not unplayable.

I found my way here via dev tracker, and may be out of line with saying this because I haven't been following this thread, nor have I read it in it's entirety, but I have been reading about the current struggles on both consoles that relate to what's being discussed here, minus the addons.

I'm guessing there haven't been many reports up until today because - at least on console - people have had time to troubleshoot, and now they're coming out of the woodwork with identical issues they can't themselves resolve. If you do a few tests you can see it's purely a networking issue; I've pinged local hosts on my network for hours with no packet loss, played other games with no packet loss. But as soon as I try to contact ZoS servers I experience packetloss at a rate of about 15% - anything over 2% can indicate a problem.

The issues are pretty bad too, they make the game unplayable. Whether players are getting stuck moving at stealth speed, even after mounting, using rapids and sprinting or rubber banding back to their death because they were being hit by enemies they couldn't see. One time I had ran through a seemingly empty area, killed some mobs further down the path, only to be simultaneously thrown into the sky, suffer major fall damage and be damaged by enemies I couldn't or didn't see. How does one navigate that?

Myrm

Chrysa1is wrote: »

how do i block this thread?
💩

Don’t bother. It’ll only be repeated in the next 300 threads

Chrysa1is

Pevey wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

how do i block this thread?
💩

Alt + F4

using mobile version mate

hiyde

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Myrm wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

... Been playing video games for 27 years,...

Pfft. Is that all? Noob! I have been playing games for 37 years. Does that make me more knowledgable and authoritative than you?

I am just waiting for the 37 years? Pfft. I have been playing for .....

42 years! Atari 2600 console, 1977!

Aww that's cute. Pong - 1975.

Myrm

I wonder what kids did 1000 years ago for entertainment.

StabbityDoom

Myrm wrote: »

I wonder what kids did 1000 years ago for entertainment.

Generally they died before they got to that point.

Eva13

But as soon as I try to contact ZoS servers I experience packetloss at a rate of about 15% - anything over 2% can indicate a problem.

The issues are pretty bad too, they make the game unplayable. Whether players are getting stuck moving at stealth speed, even after mounting, using rapids and sprinting or rubber banding back to their death because they were being hit by enemies they couldn't see. One time I had ran through a seemingly empty area, killed some mobs further down the path, only to be simultaneously thrown into the sky, suffer major fall damage and be damaged by enemies I couldn't or didn't see. How does one navigate that?

15%??? 53-70% 31 of may.

Myrm

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Myrm wrote: »

I wonder what kids did 1000 years ago for entertainment.

Generally they died before they got to that point.

True, but they didn’t all die, did they? Or we wouldn’t be here today. So there must have been kids who did survive to grow into adulthood. Therefore my question still stands. I wonder what kids did for entertainment 1000 years ago. I wonder what got them annoyed about whatever form of entertainment they partook in.

LiraTaurwen

Myrm wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Myrm wrote: »

I wonder what kids did 1000 years ago for entertainment.

Generally they died before they got to that point.

True, but they didn’t all die, did they? Or we wouldn’t be here today. So there must have been kids who did survive to grow into adulthood. Therefore my question still stands. I wonder what kids did for entertainment 1000 years ago. I wonder what got them annoyed about whatever form of entertainment they partook in.

Stop spamming off topic and if you are so curious google usually is a great help and has many answers.

Myrm

I have noticed some slight lag when I enter heavily populated areas on Xbox, such as large towns. Not game breaking by any stretch of the imagination. I do feel sorry for the PC-EU players if the lag is as bad as some are saying.

Mathius_Mordred

Iluvrien wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Put it down to experience, make the problems known to the Devs, let them try and fix it and if you are not satisfied then play something else for a while and take a chill pill whilst you're at it. It's just a game.

Just a game that some people have ongoing subscriptions to.

Are you suggesting a mass cancellation? Or just leaving those subs active while ZOS gets their act together?

No, I am suggesting to play something else for a while. Whether you cancel your sub or not is irrelevant, the point is to take a break, cool down and come back when you feel like it or when news reaches you that problems have been solved.

Getting stressed over a video game is a first world problem if ever I've heard of one. I'm guilty of it too but in my case the game I played destroyed 8 years of work, storytelling, thousands of hours of computer time and then shadowbanned my account on the forum when I joined the mass complaints. It's a game that I spent enormous sums of money on, enough to fund a Dev's salary for half a year, and a game that no longer has my support financially.

I learned my lessons, I don't want others to go through what I did and I fully understand anyone who feels aggrieved by some decisions or problems in the game they love. However it is not worth losing sleep over, it is not worth getting stressed over, simply report it and move on, if it's not solved to your liking then leave, either temporarily or permanently, but don't let it stress you out, there's so much more out there to experience both in gaming and real life.

You didn't answer the question.

Whether someone cancels their sub is not irrelevant:

1) If they cancel their sub while not playing: ZOS gets decreased revenue. The player saves money but loses access/functionality. The business may respond either by expediting fixes to regain lost income, doing nothing and hoping to weather it, or pulling further resources from ESO to focus on the new product.

2) If they don't cancel their sub while not playing: ZOS gets revenue for a malfunctioning product. The player loses money but retains access/functionality. The business gets the message that they can continue as is with no apparent impact. Getting additional funding to expedite fixes based on zero loss of income? Really unlikely. Doing nothing is likely to be the easiest course to take. Pulling further resources may also seem like an attractive option as further loss of product quality may still fail to trigger an exodus while it also decreases the funding burden for the next project.

Either action is likely to have an effect. I have seen both of these cases play out in the past in more than one business or industry. Sometimes I even watched this play out in companies that I was working for.

People seem to give a pass to the video game industry when it fails to provide a high quality product or service. How many other sectors can you think of where that is true? In the last few decades I've worked in more than a few fields in academia, business, industry, and education. Do you want to guess how many of those I remember getting the "first world problem" pass on service/product problems? I honestly struggle to think of a single one. Yet somehow this is fine because it is "just a game".

So, no. If ZOS calls itself a business then it has to act like one.

I've been in situations where something went wrong (because something always does eventually). You know what usually happened? Action stations. People stayed until the building physically closed. Customers and stakeholders got daily updates. Calls were put out for anyone who could cancel time off to do so. In one case a temp agency was contracted to bring in additional work-force to handle the day-to-day activities while the rest of us handled the clean up.

Do I think that ZOS should take such drastic steps in this particular case? Probably not.
Do I think that their current level of apparent activity and communication is acceptable? Definitely not.

Until people hold the video game industry to high standards, the industry will be given no impetus to do so itself.

Until that happens, while responses like yours are good for personal karma and balance, they do nothing useful with regards to actually getting everyone a stable, high-quality product (or service) that stays that way.

Good points to which I generally agree with but in my case, and I dare say many others, if I cancelled my sub today they wouldn't notice for 9 months because that's how long I have left to run before I have to pay again.

Myrm

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Good points to which I generally agree with but in my case, and I dare say many others, if I cancelled my sub today they wouldn't notice for 9 months because that's how long I have left to run before I have to pay again.

Exactly! If you were to cancel it when would Zos know? Do they get notification every time somebody cancels. Or do they only find out when the subscription isn’t actually renewed, or when they compare this year’s ESO+ income with the previous year? How many new ESO+ subscriptions occur every period of time compared to cancellations? Would ZOS actually feel the effects? You’d need large numbers of people to not only cancel, but for there to be a large decrease in the number of new subscribers.

I wonder how much Zos do actually make from ESO+. Also, I suspect, though I couldn’t point to any tangible evidence, that most who state they are cancelling the ESO+/not playing the game any more don’t actually carry out their “threat”. I have said myself in the past when I have rage quit games, “I”M NEVER PLAYING THIS FORNICATING GAME AGAIN!” Yet the next day I’m playing it.

Mathius_Mordred

hiyde wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Myrm wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

... Been playing video games for 27 years,...

Pfft. Is that all? Noob! I have been playing games for 37 years. Does that make me more knowledgable and authoritative than you?

I am just waiting for the 37 years? Pfft. I have been playing for .....

42 years! Atari 2600 console, 1977!

Aww that's cute. Pong - 1975.

Ah but that was an arcade console I believe, I was talking about home consoles. There were a few out before the Atari, the Magnavox Odyssey was the first in 1972 but I don't think my dad could afford it so we had to wait a few more years lol. Sadly there were no arcades within a hundred miles of my house when I was 11 in 1975, so we had to wait for a home version.

Mathius_Mordred

Myrm wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Good points to which I generally agree with but in my case, and I dare say many others, if I cancelled my sub today they wouldn't notice for 9 months because that's how long I have left to run before I have to pay again.

Exactly! If you were to cancel it when would Zos know? Do they get notification every time somebody cancels. Or do they only find out when the subscription isn’t actually renewed, or when they compare this year’s ESO+ income with the previous year? How many new ESO+ subscriptions occur every period of time compared to cancellations? Would ZOS actually feel the effects? You’d need large numbers of people to not only cancel, but for there to be a large decrease in the number of new subscribers.

I wonder how much Zos do actually make from ESO+. Also, I suspect, though I couldn’t point to any tangible evidence, that most who state they are cancelling the ESO+/not playing the game any more don’t actually carry out their “threat”. I have said myself in the past when I have rage quit games, “I”M NEVER PLAYING THIS FORNICATING GAME AGAIN!” Yet the next day I’m playing it.

They get a notification I think, IIRC they ask you why you are cancelling, I did it before when I just didn't play for a few years as I was too busy with another game. Not sure if that's still the same.

I'm not sure how many have ESO+ but it's a lot, most of my guild members are +, it's not very often we can't run a DLC dungeon for example, although I suppose that means they could have bought the DLC outright. Hard to say but if we say 10% of all players have ESO+ and it costs £8 a month to sub then that would be 10% of the currently active number of players which is around 750K according to some MMO watcher sites, so 75,000 x £8 a month, about £600K a month. Then a few million accounts with buy to play is going to raise a lot of money also. Very difficult to say what they take a month but I think it's a safe bet to say it's well over $1M and that's not even including Crown store purchases.

Tigerseye

Myrm wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Myrm wrote: »

I wonder what kids did 1000 years ago for entertainment.

Generally they died before they got to that point.

True, but they didn’t all die, did they? Or we wouldn’t be here today. So there must have been kids who did survive to grow into adulthood. Therefore my question still stands. I wonder what kids did for entertainment 1000 years ago. I wonder what got them annoyed about whatever form of entertainment they partook in.

https://www.representingchildhood.pitt.edu/medieval_child.htm

I'm guessing badly made toys weren't popular.

I know some toy soldiers were made from lead, but whether the childen ever suspected they were being poisoned by their own toys, I don't know?

A game like this is slightly different, though, as most of the people playing it are adults.

So, I guess it is more akin to a board game, like chess, or something.

EmporerZod

Having just cancelled my sub I can verify that you do indeed get an E-Mail from them. You may then leave a message at esocsvip@****** (leaving the address incomplete as I don’t know if I’m allowed to post it here) with suggestions to better the game experience. Naturally I informed them that I’ll be happy to resub once they correct the glaring bugs that are plaguing the game right now (Necro problems, guild problems, extreme lag to name a few).

Cążki

Turelus wrote: »

Cążki wrote: »

There is unbalance between money - passion - service, times where games where made for players gone, games are on investor hands but not on creators ideas passion and at all gamers needs

I think the passion and want to make a great game is there, the problem is the people with the passion are not the ones in control any more.

This is true. And sad but YES its very true. Game is controle by investor(statistics matter) money for making more and more money and then controle passion of creators to create more money. Money talks more than art of creating games. ZOS is company is example art of making money. Its a trend who has short legs in next years. But circle closes. Only money matter. Money and statistics are equivalent of gamers needs. We are live in matrix. No body cares what you want even you paid for this situation paradoxaly. Gamers in developer eyes are sheeps to cut the more money. Gamers voice is so quite nowdays due to fact nobody cares the time for aour quality. Because artists not controle the creating of a game any more, but investors statistics sheet.


imagine we need to wait 6 more months but issues we where noticed 6 months ago and ever more time before:

-after maintances game every times is unplayable buged last time no firend list, no guild list, no guild history AFTER MAINTANCE OMG! (why they not make an test maintace before runs officaly ?)
-activity finder broken system all the time (THE BIGEST ISSUE HERE )
-ping out of standards (for example WoW in eu has 35ms)
-in game services are out of standars like you need to leave city(teleport out) to recive email
-guild trader laggy
-items cancel for mguild trader - teleprot to other city and recive email and then put to auction again
-spontaneous loading screens in pvp (enjoayble breaking)
-cyro lagg and ping
-cyro queue
-queues
-battleground not swap all players in a group and then gifts you penalties
-battleground sometimes stuc on starts and then even you left you recive gift penalty
-very lack of response in forums
-any infos of specifically date of update this

All this issues are a just little bunch but major that breaking enjoyable of gaming at end game for every player and even for new comers !

Androconium

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, just to update, the change we made to PC NA and EU earlier disabled all guild history, not just the addons utilizing it. This is not a permanent change, but a stopgap until we have a chance to identify and fix the core issue. Thanks for understanding, and apologies for any confusion this may have initially caused.

13 500 000 players are potentially affected by this. Your numbers, not mine.

Some of those players will work in the IT, Banking, Corporate Finance and retail sectors.
Some players will be middle management with the respect of their senior managers.

It's your reputation that's at stake here, not ours.

Merlight

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Good points to which I generally agree with but in my case, and I dare say many others, if I cancelled my sub today they wouldn't notice for 9 months because that's how long I have left to run before I have to pay again.

Strange logic

a) You cancel now (yes they will see subscriptions dropping), send an email explaining why you cancelled. If many players are unhappy now and cancel right now, ZOS will get a clear message, perhaps even significant drop in subs during a short time period, indicating something on their side might be the culprit. And maybe if they start acting now, the game will have improved by the time your sub runs out.

b) You wait it out, cancel right before your sub runs out. Other players will cancel at different times. Will the drop in subscriptions (and accompanying "why I cancelled" emails) send as strong a message if it's spread over many months? Also, the chances they start fixing the game before your sub runs out, while not necessarily lower, are definitely not higher with this option.

The choice is yours.

Elsonso

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

how do i block this thread?
💩

Alt + F4

using mobile version mate

Large hammer, then. Also works to resolve unrelated social media stress.

Myrm wrote: »

I wonder what kids did 1000 years ago for entertainment.

The real question is whether those kids 1000 years ago, or anyone back then, would have even had a luxury item on the scale of ESO.

As I recall from my childhood, all those years ago, children were either expected to work or carry on the family business. Children were expected to stop acting like children, and start being tiny adults, almost as soon as they could manage to do it. Before that, toys were whatever was available, especially for the common children. Spending a lot of time on entertainment, especially after a certain rather young age, is a relatively new thing in the world of human behavior. It is a luxury afforded by our insane wealth.

This is why it is not uncommon to see snarky comments in threads like these about "first world problems".

In all of this complaining about guild history, lag, performance, and all that, I am occasionally reminded that even though ESO is a train wreck of bugs that they cannot seem to get a handle on, it is still better than anything that I had in my childhood.

StabbityDoom

Myrm wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Myrm wrote: »

I wonder what kids did 1000 years ago for entertainment.

Generally they died before they got to that point.

True, but they didn’t all die, did they? Or we wouldn’t be here today. So there must have been kids who did survive to grow into adulthood. Therefore my question still stands. I wonder what kids did for entertainment 1000 years ago. I wonder what got them annoyed about whatever form of entertainment they partook in.

Native Americans, for example, practiced competitive wrestling, racing, and bow shooting. They also played the “moccasin game,” where a small object was hidden beneath one of three moccasins, which were then shuffled. Participants then had to pick which moccasin had the object. They typically played with dice while indoors in the winter, and a double-ball game that was similar to lacrosse when the weather was better. Men and children together played “snow snake," which was a winter game where players tossed a carved stick to see whose went the furthest. All genders played the “hand game,” which was simply guessing which hand an object was hidden in. Another very popular activity was a variant of the “ball-in-cup game," where participants used deer claws instead of balls. Players would string multiple claws to a leather strap, which provided for a larger scoring system, depending on how many claws they caught in the cup.

This is kinda what I do for a living, research and writing about this kinda thing.

Myrm

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Native Americans, for example, practiced competitive wrestling, racing, and bow shooting. They also played the “moccasin game,” where a small object was hidden beneath one of three moccasins, which were then shuffled. Participants then had to pick which moccasin had the object. They typically played with dice while indoors in the winter, and a double-ball game that was similar to lacrosse when the weather was better. Men and children together played “snow snake," which was a winter game where players tossed a carved stick to see whose went the furthest. All genders played the “hand game,” which was simply guessing which hand an object was hidden in. Another very popular activity was a variant of the “ball-in-cup game," where participants used deer claws instead of balls. Players would string multiple claws to a leather strap, which provided for a larger scoring system, depending on how many claws they caught in the cup.

This is kinda what I do for a living, research and writing about this kinda thing.

That was vary interesting to read. Thank you!

reoskit

StabbityDoom wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

JarlUlfric wrote: »

As a GM you're supposed to adapt to the situation, no matter how poor it is. You just need to be a little bit more flexible than you normally are.

It's also our job to not simply roll over. I (and others, I suspect) will continue to advocate for the return of functionality that benefits our guildies and the economy.

My renewal today was for thirty days for a reason. I usually sub for much longer.

Thanks for this idea, @StabbityDoom. I just changed my ESO+ to 30 day renewal. No more "I have faith" 3 month subs for me.

They get an extra $1 from me, I get a faster exit strategy. "win/win"

Dont_do_drugs

Just lol. So u will now pay zos more each month bcs u actually do not want to quit. Smart smart.

StabbityDoom

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Just lol. So u will now pay zos more each month bcs u actually do not want to quit. Smart smart.

for one month, I pay them a little more so that I don't get stuck with an account I paid a year for or whatever if i decide to quit. That's insurance. I pay a tad more now so I don't end up paying a lot more for something I'm not using. But sure, smart smart.

LiraTaurwen

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Just lol. So u will now pay zos more each month bcs u actually do not want to quit. Smart smart.

Only idiots would pay for an whole year in advance just to save some money lol imagine the game would shut down before, imagine they made drastic changes and you no longer like the game...such a waste of money lol

reoskit

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Just lol. So u will now pay zos more each month bcs u actually do not want to quit. Smart smart.

I have been subbed since day one. That one dollar will not make up for my cancelled sub in the future. And if they turn this all around, I'm happy to have given them $1. Again, I've supported this game since the beginning. Thousands of dollars later, $1 isn't going to be the make/break moment.

And no, I do not want to quit. This is not an emotional response - this is a calculated wait and watch plan. I have a lot of responsibilities here; I have a lot (money, time, friendship) invested in this game. I could be a petulant child* and unsub. Instead, I am planning for the future, whatever that may bring. That is actually smart.

Edit: Apologies if "petulant child" offends those who have unsubbed. For me, I'm not at my breaking point yet. To flat out unsub would be an emotional response. I understand that many people are past their breaking point; no judgement here.

Dont_do_drugs

LiraTaurwen wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Just lol. So u will now pay zos more each month bcs u actually do not want to quit. Smart smart.

Only idiots would pay for an whole year in advance just to save some money lol imagine the game would shut down before, imagine they made drastic changes and you no longer like the game...such a waste of money lol

He won't unsubscribe, that's just the truth behind such a decision, that's all.

reoskit

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

LiraTaurwen wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Just lol. So u will now pay zos more each month bcs u actually do not want to quit. Smart smart.

Only idiots would pay for an whole year in advance just to save some money lol imagine the game would shut down before, imagine they made drastic changes and you no longer like the game...such a waste of money lol

He won't unsubscribe, that's just the truth behind such a decision, that's all.

He is a she, and I will make a decision that is right for me. I'm not sure why you care or think you get to speak as though you know my mind better than I do.

Dont_do_drugs

reoskit wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

LiraTaurwen wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Just lol. So u will now pay zos more each month bcs u actually do not want to quit. Smart smart.

Only idiots would pay for an whole year in advance just to save some money lol imagine the game would shut down before, imagine they made drastic changes and you no longer like the game...such a waste of money lol

He won't unsubscribe, that's just the truth behind such a decision, that's all.

He is a she, and I will make a decision that is right for me. I'm not sure why you care or think you get to speak as though you know my mind better than I do.

I actually don't care that much. But going into the forums, saying "hey I am not happy, so I changed my subscription and will go on paying u eso+, but now 1€ more each month, take this!" (I know, u didn't say take this) as a response to someone, who noted that he unsubbed completely is a bit awkward. As u mentioned, u do not plan to quit, ure not unsatisfied enough, that's your right, but especially bcs of that I doubt u will be unsatisfied enough within 3 months as example. So yes, you decided to go on paying even more monthly now. That's ur decision not mine, but u will at least have to deal with people finding it awkward, if u openly post such a statement into the forums 🤔 I am no meanie, no need to feel insulted, it was just a instant thought.