Seriously, this game is too easy and the overworld needs to be buffed heavily.

FierceSam

Humancentipede2 wrote: »

Yes its too easy and not challenging at all, the whole Content is too easy and boring because of it,.

And yet it takes an experienced player over 10 minutes to kill a world boss with a vanilla L9 character. That doesn’t seem like it’s too easy to me.

Should they be able to solo a world boss at L9? Sure, it should be possible for a good player to complete most overland content on a basic character, but they have to be way, way, way better than even the average new player. And that’s who overland content is aimed at.

And the ‘whole’ content isn’t too easy either. vMA is still a challenge for 99% of the playerbase, DLC hard mode no death is still a challenge for the vast majority etc etc. Raise your sights.

Massacre_Wurm

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Try at lvl 30 with no CP and random gear (from quests and world loot )
Lvl 9 char = cp160 stats pretty much.

Ok, I'll try, but I'm sure it will be way easier. Btw I tried on troll WB nearby and was smashed, so I'm not pointing that killing of Aereus as any kind of achievement, she is really weak. But still she is times more powerful then overland trash packs, so when people are telling that newbies have problems with 30k mobs...

No. I am new player ( well , sort of ). And leveled 5 chars to 50 by questing. And i can definitely say - the break point is around lvl 30. You will be weaker ( using gear from quests and loot only ) thah 9 lvl char. And some quest bosses or just monsters ( hello gargoyle from Castle of the Worm ) could be very tought at that lvl for new player.

Irrc i couldnt beat that gargoyle at level 25+ even using tri-stat potions and purple food with my first char.

dazza1033

how about for world exploration having a difficulty setting like some other games have. E.g normal, advanced, hard. Just a flat increase to npc's/eniemes defense/damage so we can still work out what weapons/armour/abilities to use. Dungeons/trials/pvp would not be affected by a difficultly setting. You could even increase drop quality with higher difficulty.

As an Eso plus subscriber a difficultly setting would be a great bonus for plus subs!

MikaHR

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Same challenge as the other guy: do Caravan Rest/Mabrigal Burial Circle every 5 levels with on level white gear and no CP. Videos required of course.

By your "logic" vMA is also pi** easy because it can be done with just bow light attack and no skills. But thats what "mechanics" does to the game.

OMG, what caravan rest has to do with 30k mobs /100k delve bosses? Then you will ask to kill songbird with bare fists? Your point is that current level of difficulty exists to allow newbies explore and develop their character in overland otherwise they'll be smashed. I show to you that weaker WBs can be soloed by characters which have only items from overland drops and nothing else. No passives, no buffs, no CP, no full item sets, NOTHING. So how newbies can have problems with solo overland content which is 30-40k regular mobs, 100k elite mobs and 50-150k delve "bosses", If they can solo 1.8M enemies?

You lie you have BIG nwbie buffs at lvl9.

Come on PROVE to us overland is too easy by doing simple challenge, just you and your leet skillz.

https://youtu.be/wO5zS5aMOow

Thanks for vid, I never thought ice arena can be done with 10k dps, i'm really amazed.
But anyway this video just proves my point. You don't need some mad animation cancelling skillz to complete solo content, you just need enough self-heals, focus adds, walk out of aoes and some minimal dps to do mechanics. And in dungeons you may clearly see that a lot of people don't know this basics.. which just proves that overland is lame. If player will die after 3 seconds of standing in aoe in overland, he will probably learn to avoid it before he will face fact that many vet aoes are one-shots.
And I told and specially mentioned lack of minor/major buffs. If you don't understand difference between minor/major buffs and boon to newbies it's your problem, plz don't call me a liar. And boon to newbies is working all the way to cp160. Yes, it is decreasing with each level, but your passives start to open and at level 30 you have plenty of them. Actually, you are already way more powerful at lvl30 then at lvl3, if you keep your gear more or less updated. And if player doesn't keep his gear updated.. why? This is RPG. Not visual novel, not an adventure, not walk-in-park simulator. ESO is RPG. RPG genre includes role-playing and building your character, if somebody doesn't build his character and get smashed, is it problem of the game?

No, this proves vMA is *** easy. By your own logic.

And thats right, dungeons have completely different mechanics than overland....ESPECIALLY DLC ones. And whos fault is that?

Yes you lied about having no buffs whatsoever when you had biggest buff in the game, now youre compaining about newbie buffs....

And you are lying again about those buffs "working all the way to cp160." Which i proven to be FALSE and missinformation when few people just like you fiercely claimed differently.

Dracheimflug wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

And if player doesn't keep his gear updated.. why? This is RPG. Not visual novel, not an adventure, not walk-in-park simulator. ESO is RPG. RPG genre includes role-playing and building your character, if somebody doesn't build his character and get smashed, is it problem of the game?

As a relatively new player to ESO (but not new to MMO's nor new to TES), I can answer that. It is really unlikely that you will get the ideal drops for your build. Furthermore, unlike in other games, there is no truly open market for gear. You can farm gear, but you can never farm gear above the level of the character you are farming with, and meanwhile that character is levelling as you use them to farm. So gearing up is not entirely within your control.

Once you have an established character, it is different, of course. Or if you have a guild or a friend power levelling you.

Spot on, they are just looking from full CP twinks and whining that its too easy. "Why dont they just craft some gear!?!?!?!?!" - because crafting doesnt keep up with adventuring level, not even CLOSE, and demands A LOT of skill points invested. Just proves they dont really have a clue what theyre talking about, even saying newbs should go camp PDs if maybe someone shows up to maybe get some gear. "GREAT" experience....right there.

MikaHR

Jeremy wrote: »

This idea that high level characters should go naked and purposely dumb down their characters is absurd.

Much much less absurd than you demanding devs do it for you because you find doing that yourself absurd.

Heromofo

Path wrote: »

I enjoy the game as is.

Yes, I am the one that sets "Fallout 4" to easy. Just tell me the story.

I am all about the story. If I fail over and over, I give up.

Happy with PVE as is.

This ffs people wanting challenges go hit up Veterans, trials, pvp , arena etc. Also consider lat issues because here in Australia the ping can be all over the place. So i want the overworld to lean on the easier side so i can enjoy the stories. If they push the difficulty too high in the overland i might not even get to enjoy Elder Scrolls...

Ps trials and pvp are a no go for us and even Veteran can be a pain sometimes with our dang lag. Try playing the game with 400+ base lat with constant ping jumps as high as 1k +.

MartiniDaniels

MikaHR wrote: »

Yes you lied about having no buffs whatsoever when you had biggest buff in the game, now youre compaining about newbie buffs....

Spot on, they are just looking from full CP twinks and whining that its too easy. "Why dont they just craft some gear!?!?!?!?!" - because crafting doesnt keep up with adventuring level, not even CLOSE, and demands A LOT of skill points invested. Just proves they dont really have a clue what theyre talking about, even saying newbs should go camp PDs if maybe someone shows up to maybe get some gear. "GREAT" experience....right there.

@MikaHR, sorry, I added you to ignored, I can't tolerate wild and unjustified accusations about lying despite I politely asked you to stop.

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Try at lvl 30 with no CP and random gear (from quests and world loot )
Lvl 9 char = cp160 stats pretty much.

Ok, I'll try, but I'm sure it will be way easier. Btw I tried on troll WB nearby and was smashed, so I'm not pointing that killing of Aereus as any kind of achievement, she is really weak. But still she is times more powerful then overland trash packs, so when people are telling that newbies have problems with 30k mobs...

No. I am new player ( well , sort of ). And leveled 5 chars to 50 by questing. And i can definitely say - the break point is around lvl 30. You will be weaker ( using gear from quests and loot only ) thah 9 lvl char. And some quest bosses or just monsters ( hello gargoyle from Castle of the Worm ) could be very tought at that lvl for new player.

Irrc i couldnt beat that gargoyle at level 25+ even using tri-stat potions and purple food with my first char.

Yes, I agree that if you won't keep your gear within 5 levels of your current level, game punishes you with low stats very harsh. But after lvl30 without power leveling you receive new levels rather slow, so what's the problem to grind fresh gear from current zone? There are plenty of ways - chests, zone public dungeon, dolmens for jewelry. Also major buffs became available from class or weapon skills. For example for magical character at lvl 30 you will have enthropy, inner light and elemental drain. Those 3 abilities can easily increase your dps 50-75%. For stamina you will eventually open amazing weapon abilities like rally, hidden blade and poison injection. If you'll go hybrid, yes without top gear and food, hybrid is road to nowhere...

So I am coming to this conclusion - game does very poor job in explaining to new players how character build works, and so there is huge gap between those who looked youtubers like Alcast or have guildmates who explained them how to build and those who don't have this info.

MikaHR

Oh, now you should go around farming gear every level from 30 on. Right, best way to kill the game.

These people sound to me the same like they use xp scrolls and complain xp is to high and has to be nerfed, and when you tell them to just stop using xp scrolls they call that absurd and continue demanding xp nerf cuz RPG....or something.

Aireal

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Yes you lied about having no buffs whatsoever when you had biggest buff in the game, now youre compaining about newbie buffs....

Spot on, they are just looking from full CP twinks and whining that its too easy. "Why dont they just craft some gear!?!?!?!?!" - because crafting doesnt keep up with adventuring level, not even CLOSE, and demands A LOT of skill points invested. Just proves they dont really have a clue what theyre talking about, even saying newbs should go camp PDs if maybe someone shows up to maybe get some gear. "GREAT" experience....right there.

@MikaHR, sorry, I added you to ignored, I can't tolerate wild and unjustified accusations about lying despite I politely asked you to stop.

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Try at lvl 30 with no CP and random gear (from quests and world loot )
Lvl 9 char = cp160 stats pretty much.

Ok, I'll try, but I'm sure it will be way easier. Btw I tried on troll WB nearby and was smashed, so I'm not pointing that killing of Aereus as any kind of achievement, she is really weak. But still she is times more powerful then overland trash packs, so when people are telling that newbies have problems with 30k mobs...

No. I am new player ( well , sort of ). And leveled 5 chars to 50 by questing. And i can definitely say - the break point is around lvl 30. You will be weaker ( using gear from quests and loot only ) thah 9 lvl char. And some quest bosses or just monsters ( hello gargoyle from Castle of the Worm ) could be very tought at that lvl for new player.

Irrc i couldnt beat that gargoyle at level 25+ even using tri-stat potions and purple food with my first char.

Yes, I agree that if you won't keep your gear within 5 levels of your current level, game punishes you with low stats very harsh. But after lvl30 without power leveling you receive new levels rather slow, so what's the problem to grind fresh gear from current zone? There are plenty of ways - chests, zone public dungeon, dolmens for jewelry. Also major buffs became available from class or weapon skills. For example for magical character at lvl 30 you will have enthropy, inner light and elemental drain. Those 3 abilities can easily increase your dps 50-75%. For stamina you will eventually open amazing weapon abilities like rally, hidden blade and poison injection. If you'll go hybrid, yes without top gear and food, hybrid is road to nowhere...

So I am coming to this conclusion - game does very poor job in explaining to new players how character build works, and so there is huge gap between those who looked youtubers like Alcast or have guildmates who explained them how to build and those who don't have this info.

It doesn't really... A few of my friends on another forum play ESO also.. and they told me to make sure to have a crafting character, as then I can invest all my points into crafting.. Though I put a couple into Animal Companion and 2h...

I hate crating, so my crafter is behind in some areas! Thankfully I DO have a good friend that didn't mind making my highest level character a nice set of armor! My next highest is in a set made by my crafter.. and she get's along well, but lvl 34 verses 42!

With my internet all wonky this week, I can only really craft and explore.. tried a fight yesterday.. it was like a strobe light.. the Sorc that kept running with my DK didn't help! I guess he/ she thought I needed help.

MikaHR

Aireal wrote: »

As I understand it.. while the term "buff" is correct, it's also something that players have no control over, because it's the way the Dev's decision to make the game playable to both high and low-level people at the same time. Many people might not look at it as a 'buff'.

Well then complain about that, as i already said in some earlier post, same dialogue about skipping tutorial with new character could be made to opt out of newbie buffs.

Aireal wrote: »

I hate crafting.. which is one of the reasons I have a particular character that is doing all the crafting.. I was told by people who have played for a while that is the best way to do it.. role play if I want, but have a separate crafting character.. to many points.. They are both behind

I like crafting and crafting is really powerful in ESO. And yeah, you only really need 1 crafting character unless you want to do master writs. Just filling all crafting necessities requires ~130 skillpoints.

Aireal

MikaHR wrote: »

Aireal wrote: »

As I understand it.. while the term "buff" is correct, it's also something that players have no control over, because it's the way the Dev's decision to make the game playable to both high and low-level people at the same time. Many people might not look at it as a 'buff'.

Well then complain about that, as i already said in some earlier post, same dialogue about skipping tutorial with new character could be made to opt out of newbie buffs.

Aireal wrote: »

I hate crafting.. which is one of the reasons I have a particular character that is doing all the crafting.. I was told by people who have played for a while that is the best way to do it.. role play if I want, but have a separate crafting character.. to many points.. They are both behind

I like crafting and crafting is really powerful in ESO. And yeah, you only really need 1 crafting character unless you want to do master writs. Just filling all crafting necessities requires ~130 skillpoints.

Well then one might as well take away the CP points period... NOT that I am saying to do so..

IF the game is scaled to a level that the 'buff' of 160 CP is needed to actually have new characters viable.. and it probably is necessary.. then removing it would probably mean instant death soon as one crosses a wolf.. or even the npc's in the tutorial's.

Which would mean in order to leave a tutorial area ( with a playable character) one must have gotten up to the equivalent of 160CP before leaving. Armor, arm's, skill, food, potions.. etc. Having a large interesting play/ tutorial area could work.. and those that want could skip it...

I'd really love to see a graph of how the 'buff' 160CP works and when it is no longer there. Starts out at lvl1 =160 and ticks down from there.. but how... 49=0 ?

MikaHR

Aireal wrote: »

Well then one might as well take away the CP points period... NOT that I am saying to do so..

IF the game is scaled to a level that the 'buff' of 160 CP is needed to actually have new characters viable.. and it probably is necessary.. then removing it would probably mean instant death soon as one crosses a wolf.. or even the npc's in the tutorial's.

Well that would solve all these "its too easy" complaints. You start off without gear. And EElsweyr is first tutorial where you can easily get almost full white non stat setup. It is absolutely necessary for new players, thats true.

And CPs adee a LOT, because they affect the buff itself too, its superpositioned above it, so its not really all that weird that you could feel invincible for those starting levels. But i doubt very many people actually dislike it. In fact i would bet very very few dislike it.

properly allocated 810 CPs account for 100% increase in character effectivness, something that some people here wont admit and still sing "CPs are a minor thing" old song.

Aireal wrote: »

Which would mean in order to leave a tutorial area ( with a playable character) one must have gotten up to the equivalent of 160CP before leveling. Armor, arm's, skill, food, potions.. etc. Having a large interesting play/ tutorial area could work.. and those that want could skip it...

I'd really love to see a graph of how the 'buff' 160CP works and when it is no longer there. Starts out at lvl1 =160 and ticks down from there.. but how... 49=0 ?

It wears down quite fast with levels. You are supposed to allocate attribute points and aquire gear as you level up. There is an issue with that too and i made a thread about it after i leveled 2 characters on fresh account during the event. Basically if you are not always up to date with your gear, by level 40 you will b threatened even by trash monsters. And bosses were always dicey, that Sheogoraths pet took 75% of my health with its "red circle" single hit...through block, if i didnt know what i was doing i would be pretty much stuck at that time...as most newbies get stuck and often ask for help with bosses/delve bosses and such. And i had better gear than most, mostly matching set pieces.

BrooksP

dazza1033 wrote: »

how about for world exploration having a difficulty setting like some other games have. E.g normal, advanced, hard. Just a flat increase to npc's/eniemes defense/damage so we can still work out what weapons/armour/abilities to use. Dungeons/trials/pvp would not be affected by a difficultly setting. You could even increase drop quality with higher difficulty.

As an Eso plus subscriber a difficultly setting would be a great bonus for plus subs!

This is what most seem to be advocating for and is flying over the head of those who argue against it. Most just want an optional setting(best set at character creation) for vertical difficulty scaling instead of flat scaling that the game currently has. With the addition of One Tamriel, they already have the baseline structure for this in regards to OW zone phasing and scaling, so they would just need to tune the scaling for level/CP ranges. E: To clarify, I'm not assuming this would be an easy task from a dev standpoint, just that I highly doubt it would require a complete overhaul.

While ESO+ sub would incentivise them to make it, but I would argue that retention rates should be a better selling point for longevity sake. Also this game already goes a bit overboard with monetization, almost to the point of determent, that selling scaling is pushing it.

BNOC

GoFigure wrote: »

The problem with every argument that wants to change the game as it now sits is that you are not taking the developers into consideration. While all of your arguments have validity, the cost to implement many of those changes are cost prohibitive. Every hour of programming probably costs them upwards of $70 (I would guess that figure is too low) and many of those changes would probably take hundreds if not thousands of hours. They have to play a numbers game. "How much can we spend that will increase sales enough to warrant the cost?" Unless you can bring in other players willing to pay $100 a month, or you are willing to fork over something like $100,000, you are not going to get many of the proposed changes that you want. Sure a lot of content is repetitive, but that is how they keep costs down. They build modular code that can be reused over and over with a few simple lines that calls the modular code. It gives the appearance of quantity, with much less cost.

No matter what anyone wants, the developers will make the decision. They have to keep newbies and the less able folks in the game or they will have fewer customers and that will result in less fixes, less changes, and less new content. The top 10% (or less), which is what you are, is not enough income to keep them in business. They do a lot to keep the upper 10% happy, but they cannot put all their focus on them. There are plenty of people enjoying all the content in the game right now, even though it is not perfect by any means. Yet, it is still worth playing.

If we really need challenges to be happy, then we can delete our account and start a new one with new characters. Take that 10th level and go solo group dungeons until we can do it. Once we become God, life is boring. All we can do is learn to live with it and find something that does interest us and makes us happy. This is basically what others are saying when they say go to Cyrodiil or do the hard mode dungeons, etc. They are not saying you are wrong. If nothing is making you happy, then perhaps you should find something that does and go do that.

Arguing over opinions is pointless. Almost all opinions are valid, from the presenter's point of view. It would be much more productive to have each person state what they would like to see and then upvote it if you agree, don't if you disagree. The number of votes will tell the developers what is most important and then they can implement them over time, if it makes sense financially. This post has 20 pages! The developers probably hate slogging through it to find "what they consider to be" a good post. We don't want "what they consider to be a good post" anyway. We want them to know what we as a group think is a good post. The way to do that is to keep it short and sweet and give suggestions that are not obviously super expensive and one that appeals to many people so that it will get the needed upvotes.

I don't mean to oppose anyone's opinion, but I was a programmer for many years and I understand what they are facing. It is like digging a big hole. Telling someone to do it is much easier than picking up the tools and doing it. And the guy doing the work does not need 50 people, that have never done it, telling him how to do it. He will get it done the most economical way he can

.

I've not read all the ideas people are throwing around in here to agree with what you're saying so, you could well be right if people are coming from way out with their ideas but purely on a scaling level, enemy scaling definitely isn't done manually. There will be plenty of functions working that out so I don't imagine it would be difficult or costly at all to just up difficulty slightly, probably very quick and cheap.

Whilst the initial work to make the game scale-able across 1T was presumably hefty, this probably isn't, unless it was bodged at conception, which I doubt.

FierceSam wrote: »

Humancentipede2 wrote: »

Yes its too easy and not challenging at all, the whole Content is too easy and boring because of it,.

And yet it takes an experienced player over 10 minutes to kill a world boss with a vanilla L9 character. That doesn’t seem like it’s too easy to me.

Should they be able to solo a world boss at L9? Sure, it should be possible for a good player to complete most overland content on a basic character, but they have to be way, way, way better than even the average new player. And that’s who overland content is aimed at.

And the ‘whole’ content isn’t too easy either. vMA is still a challenge for 99% of the playerbase, DLC hard mode no death is still a challenge for the vast majority etc etc. Raise your sights.

Says "Raise your sights" then misrepresents vMA completion rates that are much higher than people make out. Where did you get 99% from? vMA completion rate was around 50% 2 years ago so I imagine it's probably higher now.

Minno

they should give special rewards for Max CP toons that decide to clear content with all CP removed or stay at CP160.
Or just remove CP entirely since PVP has had several changes to handle the CP power creep but PVE has not.

Linaleah

Murador178 wrote: »

Bekkael wrote: »

By bad, I mean new, naked account, like a first time player to the game would experience. Starting out is tough for a new player, and if things are too hard they will quit. I left the game several times when I was leveling my first character. I died to a gust of wind for quite a while, and that just isn’t fun.

For the sake of brand new players, I’m glad if overland leans more toward easy than hard. Experienced players can get their jollies with harder content in other areas of the game, and leave questing alone. New players need to be enticed to stay, not driven away by a Dark Souls type of gameplay.

Just my opinion.

There are ALOT of zones - just add some hard zones maybe with better rewards. Im literally 1 shotting most quest bosses... . And remove the CP system openworld it adds a even bigger power disadvantage to starters.

PS: Dark souls is also not as hard as people make it... . Its just a thing of getting into the timings and muscle memory.

you understand that that's precisely the challenge, right? getting the timing and muscle memory just right? THAT is what makes games challenging. if you think that Dark souls are not hard, there is NOTHING that developers can do to make the game challenging for you without making it inaccessible for majority of the population.

Wifeaggro13

Jeremy wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

Overland is supposed to be easy. You've chosen to do the easy content and are now complaining it's too easy?

It was designed this way as an orientation for new players. If you're a big dog then pls run with the pack.

Easy or effortless? I would argue that current overland is below easy.

Also no-one is calling for easy to be nerfed. People are asking for options for people who don't want it effortless or even easy.

Why would you deny your fellow players something if it doesn't threaten what is already available?

What happens when players arent new anymore? So every DLC for every has to be set a new players? More and more content just for people who are new or just play for the story?

Sorry I'm not getting it.

They ARE calling for Easy to be nerfed. They claim they want Easy removed from the game.

There are plenty of ways for a player to dumb down the character so Overland is a "challenge" rather than destroying the game for new players.

What I see most people advocating for is an optional alternative for veteran players so they can enjoy the questing part of this game too. And that's something everyone should be able to get behind. This idea that high level characters should go naked and purposely dumb down their characters is absurd.

the issue is the long term play for sure. a new player fresh will enjoy the game because they are progressing and all the content is new . when they hit the back end want to play a different class and go through the tedium again they find it boring bland and frustratingly stupid and scream for a option to class change or buy a max character in the crown k mart. the big thing with ESO is there is no permanent community its whole design is for a churn base population. This type of game play does not work for me i dont want to rotate guilds and friendships every 6 months to 90 days so i chose to no play or buy this expansion even though i have been dreaming of having the necromancer from launch. there are very few competitive end game guilds in this game and the ones that are into progression. guard their rosters because they are tired of teaching and helping a game population that learned nothing of the game from lvl 1 to max CP. not because the they suck but because the game did nothing to advance the player skill along the way.

MartiniDaniels

Aireal wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Yes you lied about having no buffs whatsoever when you had biggest buff in the game, now youre compaining about newbie buffs....

Spot on, they are just looking from full CP twinks and whining that its too easy. "Why dont they just craft some gear!?!?!?!?!" - because crafting doesnt keep up with adventuring level, not even CLOSE, and demands A LOT of skill points invested. Just proves they dont really have a clue what theyre talking about, even saying newbs should go camp PDs if maybe someone shows up to maybe get some gear. "GREAT" experience....right there.

@MikaHR, sorry, I added you to ignored, I can't tolerate wild and unjustified accusations about lying despite I politely asked you to stop.

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Try at lvl 30 with no CP and random gear (from quests and world loot )
Lvl 9 char = cp160 stats pretty much.

Ok, I'll try, but I'm sure it will be way easier. Btw I tried on troll WB nearby and was smashed, so I'm not pointing that killing of Aereus as any kind of achievement, she is really weak. But still she is times more powerful then overland trash packs, so when people are telling that newbies have problems with 30k mobs...

No. I am new player ( well , sort of ). And leveled 5 chars to 50 by questing. And i can definitely say - the break point is around lvl 30. You will be weaker ( using gear from quests and loot only ) thah 9 lvl char. And some quest bosses or just monsters ( hello gargoyle from Castle of the Worm ) could be very tought at that lvl for new player.

Irrc i couldnt beat that gargoyle at level 25+ even using tri-stat potions and purple food with my first char.

Yes, I agree that if you won't keep your gear within 5 levels of your current level, game punishes you with low stats very harsh. But after lvl30 without power leveling you receive new levels rather slow, so what's the problem to grind fresh gear from current zone? There are plenty of ways - chests, zone public dungeon, dolmens for jewelry. Also major buffs became available from class or weapon skills. For example for magical character at lvl 30 you will have enthropy, inner light and elemental drain. Those 3 abilities can easily increase your dps 50-75%. For stamina you will eventually open amazing weapon abilities like rally, hidden blade and poison injection. If you'll go hybrid, yes without top gear and food, hybrid is road to nowhere...

So I am coming to this conclusion - game does very poor job in explaining to new players how character build works, and so there is huge gap between those who looked youtubers like Alcast or have guildmates who explained them how to build and those who don't have this info.

It doesn't really... A few of my friends on another forum play ESO also.. and they told me to make sure to have a crafting character, as then I can invest all my points into crafting.. Though I put a couple into Animal Companion and 2h...

I hate crating, so my crafter is behind in some areas! Thankfully I DO have a good friend that didn't mind making my highest level character a nice set of armor! My next highest is in a set made by my crafter.. and she get's along well, but lvl 34 verses 42!

With my internet all wonky this week, I can only really craft and explore.. tried a fight yesterday.. it was like a strobe light.. the Sorc that kept running with my DK didn't help! I guess he/ she thought I needed help.

Well, from crafting side I occasionally found Hunding's rage in Rift in my no fast travel walkthrough I had with my main in the beginning and it was love from first sight, this set looked so amazing in comparison to overland drops so I immediately started researching 6 traits on all items I wanted.. at some point I even researched nirnhoned and bought buoyant armiger swords motif and crafted Hunding's rage buoyant nirnhoned swords at cp160. Also I already had tank at that point, who jumped on some "lf 1tank nAS". I absolutely didn't knew what is nAS and what is trial and was shocked when saw that huge mechanic dragon with millions of HP. I don't remember how we finished it, but i got Asulym DW maces from there.. so my main was running with DW/DW bars both trial and crafted, all golden of course and.... I was doing 8k dps when I tried "my super dual-wielding warrior" on dummy... so this game is really murky in terms of stats.

If internet is so bad and provider can't be changed... it's bad, what may I say.. but as it was several times mentioned we are not asking to increase difficulty for everybody, we just want veteran instance or veteran food/option whatever. I guess food is easiest way. Veteran Roll = -5k HP, disables CP, -50% cost of sprint/roll-dodge/block/break-free.

Aireal

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Aireal wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Yes you lied about having no buffs whatsoever when you had biggest buff in the game, now youre compaining about newbie buffs....

Spot on, they are just looking from full CP twinks and whining that its too easy. "Why dont they just craft some gear!?!?!?!?!" - because crafting doesnt keep up with adventuring level, not even CLOSE, and demands A LOT of skill points invested. Just proves they dont really have a clue what theyre talking about, even saying newbs should go camp PDs if maybe someone shows up to maybe get some gear. "GREAT" experience....right there.

@MikaHR, sorry, I added you to ignored, I can't tolerate wild and unjustified accusations about lying despite I politely asked you to stop.

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Try at lvl 30 with no CP and random gear (from quests and world loot )
Lvl 9 char = cp160 stats pretty much.

Ok, I'll try, but I'm sure it will be way easier. Btw I tried on troll WB nearby and was smashed, so I'm not pointing that killing of Aereus as any kind of achievement, she is really weak. But still she is times more powerful then overland trash packs, so when people are telling that newbies have problems with 30k mobs...

No. I am new player ( well , sort of ). And leveled 5 chars to 50 by questing. And i can definitely say - the break point is around lvl 30. You will be weaker ( using gear from quests and loot only ) thah 9 lvl char. And some quest bosses or just monsters ( hello gargoyle from Castle of the Worm ) could be very tought at that lvl for new player.

Irrc i couldnt beat that gargoyle at level 25+ even using tri-stat potions and purple food with my first char.

Yes, I agree that if you won't keep your gear within 5 levels of your current level, game punishes you with low stats very harsh. But after lvl30 without power leveling you receive new levels rather slow, so what's the problem to grind fresh gear from current zone? There are plenty of ways - chests, zone public dungeon, dolmens for jewelry. Also major buffs became available from class or weapon skills. For example for magical character at lvl 30 you will have enthropy, inner light and elemental drain. Those 3 abilities can easily increase your dps 50-75%. For stamina you will eventually open amazing weapon abilities like rally, hidden blade and poison injection. If you'll go hybrid, yes without top gear and food, hybrid is road to nowhere...

So I am coming to this conclusion - game does very poor job in explaining to new players how character build works, and so there is huge gap between those who looked youtubers like Alcast or have guildmates who explained them how to build and those who don't have this info.

It doesn't really... A few of my friends on another forum play ESO also.. and they told me to make sure to have a crafting character, as then I can invest all my points into crafting.. Though I put a couple into Animal Companion and 2h...

I hate crating, so my crafter is behind in some areas! Thankfully I DO have a good friend that didn't mind making my highest level character a nice set of armor! My next highest is in a set made by my crafter.. and she get's along well, but lvl 34 verses 42!

With my internet all wonky this week, I can only really craft and explore.. tried a fight yesterday.. it was like a strobe light.. the Sorc that kept running with my DK didn't help! I guess he/ she thought I needed help.

Well, from crafting side I occasionally found Hunding's rage in Rift in my no fast travel walkthrough I had with my main in the beginning and it was love from first sight, this set looked so amazing in comparison to overland drops so I immediately started researching 6 traits on all items I wanted.. at some point I even researched nirnhoned and bought buoyant armiger swords motif and crafted Hunding's rage buoyant nirnhoned swords at cp160. Also I already had tank at that point, who jumped on some "lf 1tank nAS". I absolutely didn't knew what is nAS and what is trial and was shocked when saw that huge mechanic dragon with millions of HP. I don't remember how we finished it, but i got Asulym DW maces from there.. so my main was running with DW/DW bars both trial and crafted, all golden of course and.... I was doing 8k dps when I tried "my super dual-wielding warrior" on dummy... so this game is really murky in terms of stats.

If internet is so bad and provider can't be changed... it's bad, what may I say.. but as it was several times mentioned we are not asking to increase difficulty for everybody, we just want veteran instance or veteran food/option whatever. I guess food is easiest way. Veteran Roll = -5k HP, disables CP, -50% cost of sprint/roll-dodge/block/break-free.

I'm finding those on one of my crafters now and then I'll catch up with the other servers crafter. Dae just found the Mangus armor... which would be great for more than on of my characters, but she only has 3 armor pieces open... more research!

Jeremy

MikaHR wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

This idea that high level characters should go naked and purposely dumb down their characters is absurd.

Much much less absurd than you demanding devs do it for you because you find doing that yourself absurd.

Again: I'm not "demanding" anything. You should stop putting that word in my mouth considering I have never used it.

But even if I had.... no, it would not be much less absurd. To be honest, asking for players to strip naked and remove their CP is probably one of the most absurd things I've ever read on this forum. It's utterly ridiculous.

And I can't think of a single good reason why you should be opposed to an optional veteran zone for high level players to quest in so they can have fun doing the new content as well (without stripping). So if anything is "demanding" it's this idea that the entire landscape (which makes up the bulk of this game's content) should be dumbed down to the point we have to strip naked and remove our experience to have fun while questing in it. A less-demanding compromise would be to simply give both high level players and newer players a way to have fun in combat while doing quests. That is what I am proposing - and that is not "demanding" at all. It's taking into account both sides and offering a solution that works for people on both ends of the debate.

kathandira

Ingvar798_ESO wrote: »

The arguments to gimp yourselves (no CP/gear) to make Overland content easier are silly. MMOs and RPGs are, at their core, about progression. People enjoy seeing themselves get stronger and progressing to take on bigger challenges.

The only solution to this issue is a Vet Overland mode. There is a huge division here, with some enjoying the current pacing of the game. Keep it the same for them, and allow players who want to be challenged while doing the majority of the solo content in ESO (Overland questing) to do so.

The suggestions to play another game are sad - try being welcoming to differing opinions for once. Try to see a different humanity other than your own, you'll be a better person for it.

Ok, so then you become powerful enough to where the vet instance is too easy because you are that good at it. Then what? Vet HM instance?

At what point should we accept that we have hit the end of progression? Or have become so powerful that there is nothing that is left to challenge you?

Eventually, it becomes time to move on to a different game so you can feel like a noob again.

EvilAutoTech

I remember the "veteran" zones of the other alliances from just before 1T. My requests:

Vet Auridon
Vet Deshaan
Vet Rivenspire
Vet Wrothgar

Sure they might be full for a while but eventually I will be farming alone. One trip up the east coast of Auridon used to net me over 1K Nightwood in about 20 minutes. Good times.

Cortimi

Niaver wrote: »

I agree. That's why i was extremely dissapointing that they are not going to release new group zones anytime soon. I agree though that all overand content should be way harder. It may be hard for newer players that don't have skills for self-sustain yet, but it's a joke for any competent player, which shoudn't be the case.

The logical fallacy and cognitive dissonance is summed up perfectly in this statement.

1. It is hard for new players.
2. We have a progression system that works.
3. The game is not hard now, because I progressed.
4. Therefore, the game is bad because I progressed and find it easy now.
5. Screw new players, it's all about my experience.

That's it in a nutshell.

Revelzdevelz

Silly idea. I do not pug DLC content in this game simply because of how easy it is to get someone who is either bad or just doesnt know enough about the game to contribute to the group to finish the content. The content is easy to ppl who know the game. That can be said for any game.

Kolache

Revelzdevelz wrote: »

Silly idea. I do not pug DLC content in this game simply because of how easy it is to get someone who is either bad or just doesnt know enough about the game to contribute to the group to finish the content. The content is easy to ppl who know the game. That can be said for any game.

Sounds almost like the pre-DLC dungeon content is so easy that it doesn't teach people how to play their character effectively.

Korah_Eaglecry

Kolache wrote: »

Revelzdevelz wrote: »

Silly idea. I do not pug DLC content in this game simply because of how easy it is to get someone who is either bad or just doesnt know enough about the game to contribute to the group to finish the content. The content is easy to ppl who know the game. That can be said for any game.

Sounds almost like the pre-DLC dungeon content is so easy that it doesn't teach people how to play their character effectively.

Most people arent playing this game to "learn" anything. Theyre here to enjoy themselves and the vast majority dont care if that means they die 10 million times or they are carried to the end of the content by someone else.

kathandira

Kolache wrote: »

Revelzdevelz wrote: »

Silly idea. I do not pug DLC content in this game simply because of how easy it is to get someone who is either bad or just doesnt know enough about the game to contribute to the group to finish the content. The content is easy to ppl who know the game. That can be said for any game.

Sounds almost like the pre-DLC dungeon content is so easy that it doesn't teach people how to play their character effectively.

That is something I can agree with. But which way should the ends of the gap move? Make The harder content easier or make the easier content harder? One side or the other will not be pleased. The new players may find the initial skill curve too steep. Or on the other hand, the veteran players will not feel challenged enough.

This is the eternal struggle of game balancing. You either end up with a care bear game, or a sweaty basement dweller game. Finding the middle ground to please everyone is rare in the MMO market.

Kolache

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

Revelzdevelz wrote: »

Silly idea. I do not pug DLC content in this game simply because of how easy it is to get someone who is either bad or just doesnt know enough about the game to contribute to the group to finish the content. The content is easy to ppl who know the game. That can be said for any game.

Sounds almost like the pre-DLC dungeon content is so easy that it doesn't teach people how to play their character effectively.

Most people arent playing this game to "learn" anything. Theyre here to enjoy themselves and the vast majority dont care if that means they die 10 million times or they are carried to the end of the content by someone else.

lol even the beginner tutorial has stuff for you to learn. It's a game, not a novel. You can celebrate the fact that people don't have to do anything at all in order to be carried by other people but that's a pretty ridiculous interpretation of "play how you want", IMO.

Kolache

kathandira wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

Revelzdevelz wrote: »

Silly idea. I do not pug DLC content in this game simply because of how easy it is to get someone who is either bad or just doesnt know enough about the game to contribute to the group to finish the content. The content is easy to ppl who know the game. That can be said for any game.

Sounds almost like the pre-DLC dungeon content is so easy that it doesn't teach people how to play their character effectively.

That is something I can agree with. But which way should the ends of the gap move? Make The harder content easier or make the easier content harder? One side or the other will not be pleased. The new players may find the initial skill curve too steep. Or on the other hand, the veteran players will not feel challenged enough.

This is the eternal struggle of game balancing. You either end up with a care bear game, or a sweaty basement dweller game. Finding the middle ground to please everyone is rare in the MMO market.

I don't think we'd be having this conversation if most of the new content with every DLC wasn't comprised of:

• Rage-quit PUG difficult DLC dungeons
• Face-roll easy DLC overland

There's like nothing in between each DLC. Do we need to make all non-DLC dungeon content harder? Do we need to make all DLC dungeon content easier? How's about we just have a sizable portion of the game that's in the middle? If we were to label some non-DLC dungeons as "medium-difficulty" content then we haven't had any new content in this area for years.

navystylz_ESO

Aireal wrote: »

Not everyone is a great player... some people have limitations on time. Those people might now want a tougher fight just to get to the quest dungeon

No quest takes longer than any person has to play in one sitting. If your time is actually 'that' limited, and it's not just some sob excuse to why games need to cater to the least common denominator, then you need to understand you are one side of the extreme, and it's selfish to think the game should cater to your end of the bell curve, where most people fall somewhere towards the middle. Honestly, this excuse is tiresome. No one has that little time, no one is that horrible when it comes to playing game, that expecting a modicum of skill and not just mashing buttons without having to worry about mechanics, healing, blocking, or anything, is a crazy thought.

Aireal wrote: »

I have a friend that has satelite internet, her BW doesn't allow for even most dungeons, dolmens or WB's .. make the overworld tougher and it might be to much and she'd gave to quit.

Again, your friend's horrible internet is not an argument why catering to everyone--all the time--doesn't work. I've seen threads where people with bad computers and not that great internet are having less lag and loading issues than those with great internet, and high end computers. I kind of feel, if you know your internet is that bad, and it's actually preventing you from playing most of the game now, that you kind of understand you aren't the typical player and you accept the way it is because you care more for playing than a good connection. Not sure how pretending overland isn't faceroll easy has to do with that.

Aireal wrote: »

One of my dear friends sons plays... but his motor skills wouldn't allow for tougher fights. He plays on x-box one or I'd help him out. Bodyguard wise.

How old is he? He better be at least 17 with some kind of disability, because this game is rated mature.

Aireal wrote: »

When I say it's tough enough, I dont just mean for me personally.. I dont mind a challenge, just not always.

It's not tough at all. It really isn't. And all the reasons you explained before isn't the game being tough. It's you making excuses for the LCD via hardware issues for the most part, and possible physical impediments.

Aireal wrote: »

The content is there for many types of people to play many different ways. It IS up to the individual to figure out how that is... you want challenge? Use the tools the Devs gave you and the brain you were born with..

No. It's really up to the game to not make their game faceroll easy. Or with the understanding that people who expect better than handicapable level of difficulty. I'd like to see excuses that aren't bs as to how this game is even remotely difficult in the overland, sans WB, dungeons, dolmens.

Aireal wrote: »

"You" can't change your skills and knowledge of the game... but you can change how you play it... Death with Consequences... everytime you die, loose all your gear.. No "other char crafted gear" only what that char can make.

Their IS a way to challenge ypurself... it's an open world Mmorpg

Another excuse. While I've learned a ton over my on and off again playing of this game. I don't need to put ANY of that to work. I can literally ignore every mechanic, I can wear the crappiest gear or none at all, and I can just mash LMB clicking and still make it through. Without CP.

At this point you need stop lying and saying it's player learned skill that makes the game to easy. If you're dying to overland content it's because you're literally standing there, taking hits and not reacting at all.