Incapacitating Strike Silence 5.0.3

Fiktius

Deathlord92 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Forum Sorcs when threatened.

Makes me laugh at the start of pts when they stripped nb of its damage mag sorcs would say adapt even tho a good tanky player was going to be an impossible challenge for nb with out fracture and defile now that stamblade may get silence look at all the mag sorcs is this there idea of adapting lmao 😂

It is now about a time to understand THIS CHANGE DOES NOT IMPACT MAGICKA SORCERERS ONLY.
It's very cute that you're so happy to see that Sorcerers are now complaining, but ALL magicka classes are gonna suffer, if this silence would land to be on the live server exactly like it is right now in PTS. It would be ultra ironic if as "counterplay" developers would give Soul Harvest alternative effect, which would disarm all stamina abilities out of use.
Would I be allowed to tell to you then: Just adapt? Then "the real fun" would begin.You would have to incap me first before I catch you and disarm you instead.

And now seriously, I'm glad to hear that developers already reacted and said that they're investigating the matter, so now we just have to hope that the next week patch notes are much less brainless.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I swear, you skip reading one set of PTS patch notes, and it seems that ZOS wants the world to burn.

To people applauding this change and turning it into a mSorc discussion, well, you are just plain bad at this game. Sorcs arent even close to the tankiest class in Cyrodiil. If you can't kill one, L2MFP.

To the Devs, are you out of your darn minds? You started out to tune down one of the most OP ultimates in PVP, and you gave it one of the biggest game breaking buffs to a skill that we have ever seen in this game.

Seriously, FIRE whomever first suggested this idea in the first place, and FIRE the first 2 or 3 idiots in the room that nodded along saying great idea, and go back to the drawing board.

kalunte

i personnaly think 3s isnt the end of the world.

on most builds you have HoTs and buffs that last longer than 3s, and not everyone will be a NB and spam incap over incap at a cost of 120ult. also, you have to land it in the first place, which isnt guaranted at all.

i assume that the best players will be even more unplayable with a 3s silence because it's not a cc and cant be freed. still if you have a templar in your team you can purge it with a synergie right? or a healer maybe?

it will have its effect in 1v1 situation, but in any others it wont be the end of all living things like it sounds in this topic.

remember, at a cost of 125 you ave DBoS.

usmcjdking

kalunte wrote: »

i personnaly think 3s isnt the end of the world.

on most builds you have HoTs and buffs that last longer than 3s, and not everyone will be a NB and spam incap over incap at a cost of 120ult. also, you have to land it in the first place, which isnt guaranted at all.

i assume that the best players will be even more unplayable with a 3s silence because it's not a cc and cant be freed. still if you have a templar in your team you can purge it with a synergie right? or a healer maybe?

it will have its effect in 1v1 situation, but in any others it wont be the end of all living things like it sounds in this topic.

remember, at a cost of 125 you ave DBoS.

3 seconds isn't the problem. Instant and uncounterable is the problem.

fred4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FcnE2BZDxg

Hack the Minotaur perfectly sums up how baffling and incoherent this change is:

ZOS, week 1: We want to fix the overbearing nature of Incap.
ZOS, week 4: Let's throw all logic out the window.

Brian Wheeler, please take a month off to play the game, as you clearly haven't the faintest idea how it works.

ZOS_RikardD

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BrokenGameMechanics

What I do care about is balance. If you think that nightblade incap should have a silence that prevents all healing and defense on magicka classes, then let that be your opinion. I disagree with that change 100%.

Yea, this asymmetrical, works on magica and not stamina stuff has to stop. It is already so unbalanced in stamina's favor and it will be 10x worse with continued focus making movement dominant and leaving some magica builds as road kill traffic cones.

SILENCE - NEGATE (or give them a new Major/Minor name) SHOULD REDUCE Spell AND Weapon Damage some percentage. Clearly if the reduction was to ZERO you get (close) to the current behavior FAIRLY for Stam and Mag. It could also be a 80% reduction or whatever, so you still fire off your skills but with the outcome markedly reduced whether heals or damage, whether stamina or magicka.

Iki

There`s one way I can think of how to get balanced PVP if this silence is going to stay on incapacitating strike.

Create nightblade-only campaign for Cyrodiil, nightblade-only queue for battlegrounds and allow nightblades to only duel other nightblades, then exclude nightblades from other Cyrodiil campaigns. That`s it. That way other classes could have actual pvp, while nightblades would get to enjoy their own elder scrolls-themed shooter game in their own sandbox.

fred4

What I really don't understand is that they hired a YouTuber, who knows the game well, and he wasn't able to nip this in the bud. I can't imagine Gilliam thought this a good change. He's probably on holiday, leaving Brian to his own devices.

BrokenGameMechanics

Soulac wrote: »

What zos says: We are investigating counter-play options for the silence debuff.
What I understand: A fully-charged heavy attack now removes silence.

Not good enough. In a game where the new meta is high speed movement, lots of dodge rolling (buffed up last patch) and gap closing, it is really really really really hard for a Magica build with a staff to get a successful HA off that hits.

Most of the time the Negate happens right in the teeth of a charging high speed, CC immune, zerg and yea, so the Magica builds are expected to stand there, not move, not dodge roll, not block, not budge an inch and hold an HA for several seconds. Yea, well they are dead in 2 secs, long before the HA ever fires.

Knowledge

How would this new incapacitating strike change work with a sloads build or something like it?

Tommy_The_Gun

Knowledge wrote: »

How would this new incapacitating strike change work with a sloads build or something like it?

usmcjdking

I mean it's coming down the pipe.

They will only remove it from Incap if they feel there is nothing in place whatsoever to counter it. They will introduce a reasonably stupid counter.

Azaduur

This was all just an elaborate fear mongering plot to scare people into not complaining about nightblade so much. From now on "Nightblade Balance" will be a taboo term all throughout Tamriel, never to spoken of again lest we be reminded of what truly overpowered classes look like in a game.

Rianai

Guess my magblade is Elsweyr-ready:


And the best thing, this works on any class, just replace the nb skills with class skills of your choice. All those complaints are clearly l2build issues!

Agrippa_Invisus

The silence component of Incap in 5.0.3 needs to be removed.

That is my feedback. This is an error as bad as introducing Earthgore to the game. Do NOT introduce this.

Juhasow

Gilvoth wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Admit the mistake and delete this change. Simple.

it wasnt a mistake
they only gona change it because MASS complaints.
this happens every single time sorcerer gets touched in the SLIGHTEST.
allways has been, allways will be.

From what I remember they introduced minor mangle 1st to incap but due to the mass nightblades complaints they've changed it to silence. This also happened when they removed berserk from grim focus and added heal but due to nightblade complaints also added up to 15% dmg reduction. That also happened when ZoS removed fracture from supprise attack and changed it to 5% penetration debuff because they said mark already have fracture but due to nightblade complaints they made mark free to cast. ZoS is affaraid to nerf properly even 1 ability that stamblades are commonly using and they add even more usefull abilities like power extraction which can basically beat steel tornado in new update. One of the current combat team devs is well known for his fascination with nightblade class and stamblade in specific. Nightblade complaints during this PTS turned every nerf they recived into pseudo nerf or even buff so what is Your point again ?

Sanguinor2

kalunte wrote: »

I personnaly think 3s isnt the end of the world.

on most builds you have HoTs and buffs that last longer than 3s, and not everyone will be a NB and spam incap over incap at a cost of 120ult. also, you have to land it in the first place, which isnt guaranted at all.

i assume that the best players will be even more unplayable with a 3s silence because it's not a cc and cant be freed. still if you have a templar in your team you can purge it with a synergie right? or a healer maybe?

it will have its effect in 1v1 situation, but in any others it wont be the end of all living things like it sounds in this topic.

remember, at a cost of 125 you ave DBoS.

Which hot is gonna save myself from a 6k weapon damage bleedblade when I cannot defend myself otherwise or cant use burst heals? Guess I have to resto ult whenever I suspect a nightblade might be somewhere?

If you know how to play nightblade you can guarantee incap landing.

You cannot use synergies while silenced. Synergies have a cooldown.

Not everyone runs around in a zerg with pocket healers.

Outnumbered PvP situations exist.

The pressure on your opponents stam bar alone will be enough to win a 1v1 against mag characters in an extended fight even if you somehow fail to kill your target in the first 10 seconds.

"It will have its effect in 1v1 situation" is a very tame way of saying "if you meet a stamblade that knows how this game works you are completely doomed if you play a mag class, might aswell search the next negate and emote in it" if you ask me.

DBoS can be blocked, can cc break the stun, can outheal the dot.

Did I forget anything?

@kalunte

Mitaka211

"Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability"

so basically they are saying "Hey guys, we did this big change without even considering the outcome, just sounded cool you know."

This is a complete mess. It's clear they have 0 direction for the classes lol.

artal

I'm stamina player, that include stamblade to and imo this change is horrible. Complete potato nb will be serious threat to greatly experienced magicka player. and pro nbs will just mow through you without any sort of counterplay.

congratz zos you really outdid yourself here

Feanor

A part of me wants this to go live and have all the defenders of this being on a mag char and run into @Jaxaxo ...

Gilvoth

Juhasow wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Admit the mistake and delete this change. Simple.

it wasnt a mistake
they only gona change it because MASS complaints.
this happens every single time sorcerer gets touched in the SLIGHTEST.
allways has been, allways will be.

From what I remember they introduced minor mangle 1st to incap but due to the mass nightblades complaints they've changed it to silence. This also happened when they removed berserk from grim focus and added heal but due to nightblade complaints also added up to 15% dmg reduction. That also happened when ZoS removed fracture from supprise attack and changed it to 5% penetration debuff because they said mark already have fracture but due to nightblade complaints they made mark free to cast. ZoS is affaraid to nerf properly even 1 ability that stamblades are commonly using and they add even more usefull abilities like power extraction which can basically beat steel tornado in new update. One of the current combat team devs is well known for his fascination with nightblade class and stamblade in specific. Nightblade complaints during this PTS turned every nerf they recived into pseudo nerf or even buff so what is Your point again ?

no changes have ever been made to nightblade skills "due to nightblade complaints"
none.
the only times anything has ever changed due to complaints was the 1 second delay on shields.
then there was snipe
then there was sloads
then oblivion damage
then shield breaker set
this incap change revert will be number 6on that list, and only is happening from sorcerer complaints in mass.

only from sorc and because sorcerers dominate thick on this forum.

darkblue5

Juhasow wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Admit the mistake and delete this change. Simple.

it wasnt a mistake
they only gona change it because MASS complaints.
this happens every single time sorcerer gets touched in the SLIGHTEST.
allways has been, allways will be.

From what I remember they introduced minor mangle 1st to incap but due to the mass nightblades complaints they've changed it to silence. This also happened when they removed berserk from grim focus and added heal but due to nightblade complaints also added up to 15% dmg reduction. That also happened when ZoS removed fracture from supprise attack and changed it to 5% penetration debuff because they said mark already have fracture but due to nightblade complaints they made mark free to cast. ZoS is affaraid to nerf properly even 1 ability that stamblades are commonly using and they add even more usefull abilities like power extraction which can basically beat steel tornado in new update. One of the current combat team devs is well known for his fascination with nightblade class and stamblade in specific. Nightblade complaints during this PTS turned every nerf they recived into pseudo nerf or even buff so what is Your point again ?

To be fair Minor Mangle made Incap even worse than not having Minor Mangle because of the mildly bizarre way Minor Mangle gets applied. Most recent nerfs have gone this way not even restricted to Nightblades, see "Nerfmire" which uh led to magsorcs being one of if not the top overall PvP spec ON LIVE. Before the nightblade nerfs/buffs/mess. Yes the Silence is too much. The Silence with counterplay will be unslottable. Neither would be nice.

Jaxaxo

Feanor wrote: »

A part of me wants this to go live and have all the defenders of this being on a mag char and run into @Jaxaxo ...

But if im even playing, it's mostly magden recently
But ye, whole this idea of incap is just... bad (cant use other word on forum)

Zekka

Stamblade players complain about not bringing enough utility to a small group so how about making Incap an anti healer (and not healing) tool? Instead of Silence make the 120 ult Incap apply a large, unpurgeable healing done to others (and only to others) absorption debuff, something like 30k hp (earthgore's healing tooltip).
That way, stamblades finally have a role in small scale: shutting other groups' healers down.

ccmedaddy

nvm

The_Last_Titan

off the top of my head

"increases the stamina and magicka cost of the targets abilities by 60% for 3 seconds", i dont know the numbers that would be balanced but it could be viewed as weakening them in a way and make the resource restore on attack kind of like draining their resources.

WatchYourSixx

Show me a clip where 3 seconds killed you that isn't lag or you failing to block/dodge an ability. Did you know you can block with even just 1 stam?

Sanguinor2

The_Last_Titan wrote: »

off the top of my head

"increases the stamina and magicka cost of the targets abilities by 60% for 3 seconds", i dont know the numbers that would be balanced but it could be viewed as weakening them in a way and make the resource restore on attack kind of like draining their resources.

Cant nightblades just accept that incaps burst and 20% damage increase is perfectly fine for a 70 cost ult? Add the reave if absolutely neccessary. Imagine the nightblade uproar if similar stuff that nightblades are debating to "nerf" incap would get added to the aedric spear ult which is at roughly the same cost.

Cortimi

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Btw. I get the impression that most of the mag based characters would want this single target ultimate ability to cost 500 ulti points and had a description "does nothing".

People are obviously not objective here. Remember when Sorcs had their rune cage undodgeable burst combo somwhere around Summerset ? Non of them was like "you know ZOS, you gave us this and it is slightly OP" - all of the were like:
"it is totally fine" (yes back then changes went to live server, despite the outrage. Here we have ppl who probably did not even tested it on PTS and already we have a DEV answer to the outrage).

So, if you were to be as much objective as possible (and not biased ofc) - what would you propose ? Immunity to silence after 3 seconds ? Or what ? Keep in mine that Incap is not a skill or spamable. It is a single target melee ultimate, that can be dodged or blocked.

They won't listen to you bro.