PTS Update 22 - Feedback Thread for Class Balance

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casparian wrote: »

Given that stam necromancer has enormous class identity with numerous stamina morphs, why do other classes (particularly stamplar and stamsorc) still have so few stamina morphs?

main reason is backlash of ppl when either morph wouldbe changed into stam verision from mag.

bharathitman

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
Magdens have zero group utility or the dps to justify their inclusions in trials. They have been consistently nerfed or overlooked since their release

KatySpirit

Now I have had a chance to test things on the PTS, I would like to just address what I noticed.

Nightblade Tank: The changes to Dark Cloak definitely make it a weaker heal when something hits hard and takes a chunk of health. I like the increased duration of the buff because I have to cast it less, however this is not worth the loss of burst self heal. Either do not change it, since it works as is, or compromise in a way that keeps some of the bursty nature of the heal.
My magic DK DPS can burst heal for over half of its health instantly, so I really don't care if DPS are using this skill and stressing out the pvpers, it certainly isn't the only class that can currently burst heal and I would disagree just as much if you nerfed DK's self heal. Tanks rely on strong self heals. (Templar could use a self heal too as I have seen mentioned, maybe a morph of Breath of Life that is guaranteed to heal itself and scales on max health. All classes need a strong self heal for tanking!)

Also more group buffs/synergies would be amaziiiing for nightblade (I say this as tank and healer!)

Magicka Nightblade DPS for pve: I do feel the loss of the self buff from merciless resolve, and while I know healers will be on top of this problem (for that specific buff) I do think that nightblade in general has a lack of self buffs and it was a shame to see it lose one of the few it has. The passive buff in the assassin line for this class has no impact on magic builds, unlike sorcerer and templar have. As others have said, I do feel that grim focus and its morphs should offer some kind of buff because they take two cast costs, one to activate and one to fire off. If not berserk, please consider something else that would be valuable to pve DPS. Maybe even something that buffs the group!

In the end, I would rather see you making choices that buff each of the classes. Instead of nerfing magblade, how about buffing up magwarden? How about helping magDK with sustain? How about making more of sorcerer's class skills viable so it won't rely on weapon skills as much? I play pve, and it does tire me to see pvp drive so many changes to my part of the game. I feel like this patch did not address a lot of the actual concerns and some of the changes it made were for the worse (even if not extremely so). My post focused on what I know best--nighblades--but I want to see ALL of the classes succeed and given the tools to be the best they can be, while being unique and fun.

GrumpyDuckling

I would like to see the Warden's Animal Companion skill line 1) feel better to use, and 2) play more like the user actually has animal companions. I propose a mostly rearranged skill line that looks like the following:

Step 1 - Move the minor berserk passive to the bear ultimate. If you are going to force us to double-slot an ultimate, then at least give us a little more value there. The re-summoning morph, in particular, is pretty pathetic now that pets can't be killed.

Step 2 - Move the sustain from netch to falcon's swiftness. Tanks would love to have the utility of extra speed while maintaining the sustain that they currently get from netch (without the need to slot two skills).

Step 3 - Replace netch with a permanent wolf summon that provides Major Brutality/Major Sorcery for being slotted. This move makes the skill line feel more like the player actually has animal companions, and offers a stamina option for those who like using pets.

Vapirko

Mag DKs got some serious offensive and healing buffs. The wings change will have to be tested but looking good with some build adjustments most likely. Coag blood is going to be strong when used properly.

Extended ritual change is very nice for Stamplars. Our passives still need work (coming later this year as I understand), but the extra survivability or damage will be an interesting change. That skill is expensive for us and though purge is undoubtedly great, it really felt like not much for the cost of magicka on a stamina toon.

Stamblade changes are obviously welcome, particularly incap and fear change. Less cheesy free damage and more thoughtful play. Although a lot of angry stamblades are gonna be out there.

Im happy with the changes that are there. Some stuff is definitely missing. Thought we'd see a shuffle change. A little concerned with this bring everything in line in terms of damage idea still. WWs didn't need more damage for instance. Again all skills are not created equal. Some are just better.

casparian wrote: »

Increased the initial hit damage of this ability and the Radiant Ward morph by 150% to put it on par with our PBAoE standards. Blazing Shield's damage remains untouched since it is already above that standard, since it has an additional requirement in order to gain the damage.

Nearly every player in the game regards Blazing Shield as drastically subpar, and yet it exceeds ZOS' standard for adequate ability balance. What does that say about the difference between in-game standards and ZOS' standard?

This is the issue with their latest style of balance which is to "bring everything in line." In some instances it works great. And skills of similar types should offer similar effects. But this is how steel tornado got thrown out of wack in the first place. They made it undodgeable so it functions like any other AoE such as caltrops. But if Ive got to explain the issue with that then L2P. Im glad to see they're making these passes but its a bit too much of a blanket style of changing things. WWs for example, hardly need a damage buff at this point.

ESO_Nightingale

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I would like to see the Warden's Animal Companion skill line 1) feel better to use, and 2) play more like the user actually has animal companions. I propose a mostly rearranged skill line that looks like the following:

Step 1 - Move the minor berserk passive to the bear ultimate. If you are going to force us to double-slot an ultimate, then at least give us a little more value there. The re-summoning morph, in particular, is pretty pathetic now that pets can't be killed.

Step 2 - Move the sustain from netch to falcon's swiftness. Tanks would love to have the utility of extra speed while maintaining the sustain that they currently get from netch (without the need to slot two skills).

Step 3 - Replace netch with a permanent wolf summon that provides Major Brutality for being slotted. This move makes the skill line feel more like the player actually has animal companions, and offers a stamina option for those who like using pets.

I like how netch is currently. I also don't want more power to the bear. Its already the only thing you should use in pve and it would disappear in pvp where we just got hit pretty hard. A wolf summon while cool seems like it would be better as a skin for the bear. If you were to gain more mag dps skills, the only place to put them is in winter's embrace. One other thing is that by removing bird of prey, you remove magden's mobility. We don't have an enemy gap closer.

GrumpyDuckling

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I would like to see the Warden's Animal Companion skill line 1) feel better to use, and 2) play more like the user actually has animal companions. I propose a mostly rearranged skill line that looks like the following:

Step 1 - Move the minor berserk passive to the bear ultimate. If you are going to force us to double-slot an ultimate, then at least give us a little more value there. The re-summoning morph, in particular, is pretty pathetic now that pets can't be killed.

Step 2 - Move the sustain from netch to falcon's swiftness. Tanks would love to have the utility of extra speed while maintaining the sustain that they currently get from netch (without the need to slot two skills).

Step 3 - Replace netch with a permanent wolf summon that provides Major Brutality for being slotted. This move makes the skill line feel more like the player actually has animal companions, and offers a stamina option for those who like using pets.

I like how netch is currently. I also don't want more power to the bear. Its already the only thing you should use in pve and it would disappear in pvp where we just got hit pretty hard. A wolf summon while cool seems like it would be better as a skin for the bear. If you were to gain more mag dps skills, the only place to put them is in winter's embrace. One other thing is that by removing bird of prey, you remove magden's mobility. We don't have an enemy gap closer.

Why is winter's embrace the "only" place to put mag dps skills?
Mobility for magden isn't touched, falcon's swiftness still retains the speed boost.

Universe

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?
No.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
Yes, but not significantly.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
The Sorcerer received some good balancing.
For example, Streak is now more useful and Crystal Fragments is cheaper
"Bolt Escape: Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could stun targets behind walls. "
It is good to see you fixed the issue I reported.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
Yes.
Some of the best changes to Nightblade(mostly PVP perspective):
1. Death Stroke - the removal of the major defile.
The defile was too powerful for this ultimate ability.

2. Grim Focus - "Removed the Minor Berserk buff from this ability and its morphs."
Minor Berserk buff was a bit OP and I'm glad to see it gone!
It was adding too much to the Nightblade's dps in PVP and PVE.

3. Aspect of Terror - Mass Hysteria (morph) - "This morph no longer applies Minor Maim to the targets affected. Also increased the number of feared targets to 6 enemies from 2."
Minor maim had too high uptime.

4.Surprise Attack - "This ability no longer applies Major Fracture. Instead, if you use the ability on the flank of an enemy (behind or at their sides), you reduce their Physical Resistance by 5%. This effect cannot stack, but will always prioritize the highest value. "
This ability was too useful in PVP and it's great that you finally realized it.

5. Soul Tether (morph): "Adjusted this morph to adhere to our DoT standards.
Added a 1 second delay between the initial hit and the first DoT tick.
Increased the damage by approximately 4% per tick to make up for loss of first tick. This will result in the same DPS/HPS, but with less burst."
A good nerf to nightblades who bomb large groups of players.

The change to Dragonknight's "Reflective Scale" is good.
"Reflective Scale:
Renamed this ability to Protective Scale.
Converted the reflect function into a 50% damage reduction from projectiles. This happened to all 3 versions of the ability.
Dragon Fire Scale (morph): This ability no longer increases damage of reflected attacks, since it can no longer reflect. Incoming projectiles will now cause you to launch a fiery orb at the attacker that deals Flame Damage. Effect can occur once every half second.
Reflective Plate: Renamed this ability to Protective Plate. No other changes were made to the ability’s functionality.
"
It had too high uptime and effectiveness in PVP, essentially reflecting almost all projectiles.

Some of the good Warden changes:
Falcon’s Swiftness:
*"This ability no longer grants Major Endurance."
The Major Endurance was too powerful, good work.

Scorch: "This ability and its morphs can now be blocked."
A good change given the burst potential the warden has in PVP.

I see many good balance changes this patch.
Well done
Though PVE players are now less effective in combat because of changes made with PVP in mind.
I wish the combat system had two distinct functionalities, one in PVP and one in PVE.
You keep balancing PVP and PVE together, there will never be true balance.

ESO_Nightingale

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I would like to see the Warden's Animal Companion skill line 1) feel better to use, and 2) play more like the user actually has animal companions. I propose a mostly rearranged skill line that looks like the following:

Step 1 - Move the minor berserk passive to the bear ultimate. If you are going to force us to double-slot an ultimate, then at least give us a little more value there. The re-summoning morph, in particular, is pretty pathetic now that pets can't be killed.

Step 2 - Move the sustain from netch to falcon's swiftness. Tanks would love to have the utility of extra speed while maintaining the sustain that they currently get from netch (without the need to slot two skills).

Step 3 - Replace netch with a permanent wolf summon that provides Major Brutality for being slotted. This move makes the skill line feel more like the player actually has animal companions, and offers a stamina option for those who like using pets.

I like how netch is currently. I also don't want more power to the bear. Its already the only thing you should use in pve and it would disappear in pvp where we just got hit pretty hard. A wolf summon while cool seems like it would be better as a skin for the bear. If you were to gain more mag dps skills, the only place to put them is in winter's embrace. One other thing is that by removing bird of prey, you remove magden's mobility. We don't have an enemy gap closer.

Why is winter's embrace the "only" place to put mag dps skills?
Mobility for magden isn't touched, falcon's swiftness still retains the speed boost.

Appologies. I've had a long day with little sleep (woke up early for pts). Ill retract my statement about falcons. i got confused. winter's embrace is the only place to put new dps skills because the current animal companions skills already have functions well hammered down and there's no reason to rework them away from what they do. Winter's Embrace morphs that are underpowered however are pretty free because noone uses them due to how they perform and not many people would miss them if reworked. We also need more frost damage skills for people who desire a frost mage that they thought they'd get from the descriptions and trailer. We know magden needs more damage skills and frost damage skills make the most sense.

ESO_Nightingale

Universe wrote: »

Falcon’s Swiftness:
*"This ability no longer grants Major Endurance."
The Major Endurance was too powerful, good work.

I'm sorry. What? This is a buff you get from restoring stamina from potions. If you run a tri-pot or a weapon crit pot, you get this.

Bunnies

This is only from the perspective of a PVE player only, particularly our area's of expertise are Healers and Nightblades. We've playing these classes since the beginning of the game back in beta.

This post itself is the results of about 8 people working together and I do not take the full credit of it. We worked together on the combat aspect of this only.

DISCLAIMER: We are higher end dps and healers. I have very carefully made this post, when I say we it means my group, when I say I it means myself. I also got to meet you guys at Boston just wanted to say hi again

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?

The changes to nightblade are fair due to their current place in the game with the exception of the drop of minor endurance from Relentless Focus. It is difficult to describe, but it does not feel right on the high end of stamina dps nightblade. We are sustain single target dps, but it does not feel like that from the change. The increase in time for it to be up is a massive "breath of life", but it really hurts our playstyle where we make a spammy nb. We never ran the Relentless Focus for the 8% minor beserk, because we got this from combat prayer anyways. Saying that we think the loss of Minor Beserk is necessary, but not the minor endurance. We would like to also note that there is very little sources of this ability to begin with, along with the nightblade regen passives it kinda feels like nightblades "thing".

In terms of build, I am a redguard nb for the extra regen making it a fun playstyle. Between minor endurance and the redguard passives I found much enjoyment being able to do tons of things instead of "potent" things like orc.

Could we consider calculating in minor endurance? Otherwise the changes feel good perhaps even better.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?

Disclaimer: I can weave fast... For someone in endgame these changes are getting the fluid feeling you are seeking! I mean 200ms does not seem like much, but it adds a HUGE cushion when you can land you weaves! I like how it feels, but I don't know if it is too much at this point. Particularly the best change to here is channels it feels more fluid.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?

Healers feel about the same in terms of abilities, but a huge overall loss from equipment (more on that in general feedback). We gained a small bit of dps on templar healers which will probably bring them more in line with the warden healers in terms of utility. Wardens feel in a good spot right now for healers in my own opinion.

Stamina Nightblade seem less powerful in a long sustained scenario, but we am not a fan of the the loss of minor endurance for stamina dps. We are already stretched in terms of resources since we use the same pool for everything. We will not always have a warden in the party to increase our regeneration either. It feels wrong for my play-style. In terms of magicka NB we feel stronger overall in a sustained scenario, the sustain changes for our healing is pretty significant in terms of the overall scheme of things.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?

We are making no comments on DK and Sorc, we are no experts.

My opinion and of the skill overall (Morphs included)

Templar Healer:

• Aedric Spears:
• Radial sweep: Good
• Puncturing Strikes: Recent changes made it feel better
• Piercing Javalin: Not really used for pve dps or healing. No utility outside stun
• Focused charge: should have a stamina morph,, I mean what healer or magicka dps wants to get close?
• Spears: Feels better, it is what makes us our class for healers
• Dawns Wrath:
• Nova: We love nova, but it is overshadowed by barrier right now,, wish reduction was longer with weaker damage
• Sun Fire: As a healer we don't use this no utility
• Solar Flare: As a healer we don't use this no utility
• backlash: we love the healing morph, feels good. Often overshadowed by other HoT's
• Eclipse: Often overshadowed by other skills has niche use for healers.
• Radiant Destruction: Used by healers to contribute, we love the place of this skill
• Restoring Light:
• Rite of passage: Niche use overshadowed by barrier, too short
• Rushed Ceremony: Both morphs are very strong we love this skills place. This is what identifies templar also.
• Healing ritual: Eh its ok? it needs to stack to be viable like healing springs
• Restoring Aura: We love Radiant aura, wish it was a tiny bit longer though
• Cleansing Ritual: What makes Templar healer itself, WE LOVE THIS ABILITY

Nightblade:

• Stabby Stuff:
• Deathstroke: We feel the changes are necessary and are in a better place now with the nerfs. DON'T touch the damage it is in a very good spot!
• Assassins Blade: Overall this is what makes Nightblade itself. It feels satisfying to use in the pts
• Teleport strike: Stamina morph feels in a good spot, we don't use the magicka one much except for niche things.
• Blur: We are actually unsure about this one, we don't use it much, feels overshadowed by shields
• Mark target: not used in pve because of tanks outside of trash pulls
• Grim Focus: Feels off, the berserk changes are necessary, but the endurance change feels wrong.
• Shadow:
• Consuming Darkness: More tested needed, probably in a good spot
• Veil Strike: Stamina got a buff, we are happy with that. Concealed is probably one of our favorite casual skills in the game it is soo fun to sneak fast in stealth
• Shadow Cloak: We love both morphs even if we don't use the crit one in pve. In casual content shadowy is so fun to go invis!
• Path of Darkness: Twisting is amazing we love it! The refreshing nerfs killed nightblade healers.
• Aspect of terror: Don't use it in pve
• Summon Shade: Feels much better after changes, more testing needed to see if we will use it.
• Siphoning:
• Soul Shred: Feels under-powered compared to the ultimate from destro staff, overall actually a good ult. we think it just may be under used.
• Strife: We love this skill, it is still used for dps if we need sustain. Otherwise element weapon. The other morph to siphon getting nerfed killed nightblade healers,, no longer viable
• Malevolent offerings: Rule #1, the healer CANNOT DIE. This skill goes against that, we do not think it as viable.
• Cripple: We LOVE the changes to cripple, the increased damage is great for long fights
• Siphoning Strikes: We like the place this skill is in. It requires buff management to be good, but the reward for it is nice. (PS: friend says thank you for fixing the bug)
• Drain Power: Bread and butter AOE skill, we love love the spot it is in!

Warden:
we need testing before we say anything here.

Weapons and skill lines:
I am writing up the results on this, but that will take time.

Do you have any other general feedback?

• The changes to Minor Beserk are a buff to nightblades, but it will be an unseen nerf to healers. People are going to start forcing Combat Prayer on healer bars again. There will be a small drop in build diversity for healers. Saying that the changes are necessary,, with the exception of minor endurance.
• The reason people ran earthgore was not for the debuff removal, but for the heal in PVE. Earthgore is probably going to be dropped in favor of a resource regen set or another healer set now. It is probably weaker than Nightflame now. Can we consider testing 3 heals on a lowest HP targets.. even at the trade of some of the debuff removal. This would also go in line with the lore of the set where earthgore splits in three? Saying that the nerf is necessary, but if you wanted to make alternate choices we think taking a look at calculating the value of Nightflame, Troll King, and Symphony of Blades and bringing them to part with it instead. The Theorycrafting community considers Symphony of Blades under-powered on that note due to the cooldown being person specific.
• Please take a look at warden, We are getting hints that the weaving changes might make a double bow stamina warden very powerful. With the decreased weave time and snipe changes we think we need to take a look at it again. This is not my area of expertise, so I would recommend someone else look at it.
• We fear for power creep on magicka nb's, more dps tests are needed.
• We are going to make a second post for the weapon abilities and skill lines part 2 coming soon for over / under preforming (not enough space to post everything)

gsthegamer

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?

The standardized Damage Over Time ruleset was established, at least in part, to prevent single target DoTs from being used as spammables. This makes sense for setups that have access to alternative spammable abilities, but this is not the case for werewolf. The werewolf light attack is the only viable spammable they have as their other skills are cost prohibitive for that purpose. Also, it requires the activation of an expensive ultimate to use werewolf light attacks, so it should not be standardized with regular class and weapon skills. If any skill deserves to be a “rule breaker”, it’s the werewolf light attack.
Additionally, other skills adjusted to this new ruleset specifically noted an increase in damage to keep DPS roughly the same, but the damage adjustments for the werewolf seemed to not take this into account.

Ratzkifal

First off I am not a DK main and I do play PvP.

I would like to see wings keep their reflection but shorten the time window and reflect ALL projectiles in its duration at an appropriately adjusted cost. The 6 second duration is too long, but the limit to 4 projectiles feels bad. I'd say if we make it a 2 second window (or maybe even 1 second), then DKs would have to be intentional about using reflect. That feels a lot more healthy and appropriate for everyone involved.
Squishy builds rely on getting to avoid damage and accompanying effects and cc, so the 50% damage reduction doesn't exactly work out for them.

casparian

Ratzkifal wrote: »

First off I am not a DK main and I do play PvP.

I would like to see wings keep their reflection but shorten the time window and reflect ALL projectiles in its duration at an appropriately adjusted cost. The 6 second duration is too long, but the limit to 4 projectiles feels bad. I'd say if we make it a 2 second window (or maybe even 1 second), then DKs would have to be intentional about using reflect. That feels a lot more healthy and appropriate for everyone involved.
Squishy builds rely on getting to avoid damage and accompanying effects and cc, so the 50% damage reduction doesn't exactly work out for them.

I too would have wanted to see this.

DFS can have a brief reflect window, for those who prefer the reflect ability.

Reflective Protective Plate can be a 6-second flat damage reduction and 2-second snare immunity, for those who prefer less flavor but more reliability.

Xvorg

IARTOI wrote: »

I would say that "Molten Whip" rework is OK. but why no stamina cost for it? I mean "Poison whip" would be awesome for spamable class skill.

One other thing Warden Animal Companion ultimate. I suggested that before all big patchs released. This ultimate is useless in PvP. Bear is so slow cannot chase the enemy and wasting ulti cost when they move faster. This ulti occupying both bar for nothing. Its only good in 1v1. You can bring a rework for bear too. At least a leap or jump animation on enemy and stun them instead of pet's heavy attack. Consider this please.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Because Puncture is a much, much better spammable than whip will ever be

usmcjdking

Templar Purifying Ritual needs to be adjusted. Removal of 5 status effects for it's cost is prohibitive given the amount of effects single skills can put on in a very short window of time.

I strongly encourage that purifying 5 effects should be the base utility of the skill with extended ritual purifying 1 negative effect every 2 seconds and Retribution keeping it's damage.

Xvorg

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

As a stamDk I am very happy for the weapon spammable buffs. Now if the vision for this class is to use weapon abilities, then please remember that when reworking class passives. This whole "poison knight" theme never truly worked and I would honestly prefer class passives that enchant on weapon skills rather than poison ones. I'm sure you guys can do something more creative than %25 poison cost reduction, which lost its meaning due to claw spammable not being a thing anymore.

So far I'm happy with the direction of this patch. If this sounds like I'm complaining , I'm not. This might be the best patch since one tamriel.

Yup... or bleeds

Ragnaroek93

After testing my stamnb on PTS I have no words to describe how disappointed I am. Fear costs 4k magicka and is just a CC now with no extra effect on it. Mark Target costs a lot of magicka as well and has basically no useful effect on it other than fracture. I don't have defile anymore and so I can't kill tanky builds, meanwhile it's fine that Necro and sword and board builds have major defile on non ults. Grim focus is kinda trash now as well. I
You're forcing us to slot garbage skills just to get access to important buffs by nerfing our good skills. You don't even put any effort into making Mark Target or Fear attractive, you just trash Surprise Attack (a skill that wasn't an issue during 4 years). I don't know if you are aware that we only have 10 skill slots available, how the hell am I supposed to slot all the skills that you want me to use?

Good that you nerf "overloaded" skills which were the reason for build diversity and flexibility. When do we nerf Elemental Drain (just compare this weapon skill with the class skill Mark Target for a good laugh), Heroic Slash, Race Against Time (compare again with Shuffle for a good lol) and Reverb Bash since they're overloaded as hell too?

Another thing is how medium armor isn't allowed to have good sets. Fury and Legion somehow aren't nerfed (because whatever), spell strat isn't nerfed either, magicka gets a copy version from every stamina set and medium armor gets taken away it's indendity by handing out a snare removal and major expedition to everyone. Med armor just gets blatantly ignored since years and for some reason heavy armor builds are meta since 3 years now.

VaxtinTheWolf

I am still going through a lot of these changes across multiple classes. for now, I'll just throw in that I like and dislike the Dark Cloak changes. It's nice on the magicka drain that it lasts longer, but now the heal is spread out which is not what's needed. Perhaps something like giving it a magicka or health based direct heal of like 4.5k after some bonuses? The duration reduced to 6 total seconds and the HoT healing like 6% of the max health afterwards, assuming you are insisting this skill have some HoT component.

I'm really not sure how those values would work out. I do however love the Fear changes and am so relieved that feedback/request was taken into account, FINALLY. I also noticed that Shadow Path lingers for 4 seconds now, instead of two. Was that a change in this patch or did I just never pay any attention before, either way that's also nice. I still have to try out the shade damage changes.

hakan

Universe wrote: »

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?
No.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
Yes, but not significantly.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
The Sorcerer received some good balancing.
For example, Streak is now more useful and Crystal Fragments is cheaper
"Bolt Escape: Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could stun targets behind walls. "
It is good to see you fixed the issue I reported.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
Yes.
Some of the best changes to Nightblade(mostly PVP perspective):
1. Death Stroke - the removal of the major defile.
The defile was too powerful for this ultimate ability.

2. Grim Focus - "Removed the Minor Berserk buff from this ability and its morphs."
Minor Berserk buff was a bit OP and I'm glad to see it gone!
It was adding too much to the Nightblade's dps in PVP and PVE.

3. Aspect of Terror - Mass Hysteria (morph) - "This morph no longer applies Minor Maim to the targets affected. Also increased the number of feared targets to 6 enemies from 2."
Minor maim had too high uptime.

4.Surprise Attack - "This ability no longer applies Major Fracture. Instead, if you use the ability on the flank of an enemy (behind or at their sides), you reduce their Physical Resistance by 5%. This effect cannot stack, but will always prioritize the highest value. "
This ability was too useful in PVP and it's great that you finally realized it.

5. Soul Tether (morph): "Adjusted this morph to adhere to our DoT standards.
Added a 1 second delay between the initial hit and the first DoT tick.
Increased the damage by approximately 4% per tick to make up for loss of first tick. This will result in the same DPS/HPS, but with less burst."
A good nerf to nightblades who bomb large groups of players.

The change to Dragonknight's "Reflective Scale" is good.
"Reflective Scale:
Renamed this ability to Protective Scale.
Converted the reflect function into a 50% damage reduction from projectiles. This happened to all 3 versions of the ability.
Dragon Fire Scale (morph): This ability no longer increases damage of reflected attacks, since it can no longer reflect. Incoming projectiles will now cause you to launch a fiery orb at the attacker that deals Flame Damage. Effect can occur once every half second.
Reflective Plate: Renamed this ability to Protective Plate. No other changes were made to the ability’s functionality.
"
It had too high uptime and effectiveness in PVP, essentially reflecting almost all projectiles.

Some of the good Warden changes:
Falcon’s Swiftness:
*"This ability no longer grants Major Endurance."
The Major Endurance was too powerful, good work.

Scorch: "This ability and its morphs can now be blocked."
A good change given the burst potential the warden has in PVP.

I see many good balance changes this patch.
Well done
Though PVE players are now less effective in combat because of changes made with PVP in mind.
I wish the combat system had two distinct functionalities, one in PVP and one in PVE.
You keep balancing PVP and PVE together, there will never be true balance.

you really think those nb changes will have too much effect on nb pve dmg? Because minor berserk and major fracture already provided by tanks and healers.

Xvorg

Ok, I don't like the change to wings. The skill will be useless compared to RAT. DKs can still block projectiles and any smart player seeing a DK spamming wings now will use a channel or go melee. Projectiles are just a small potion of dmg skill and if there's still people who wants to use projectiles against a DK, is just because after 5 years they have never learnt to play the game (including all those who supported the change based on their immutable builds, except mageblaes who were *** from day 1 after Nerfmire). No more comments on that change, it is what it is and it is bad and useless.

On the other hand, stamDK needs some love, and the best thing you can do is to get rid of poison dmg skills. They don't add anything to the playing style of a class that relies on weapon skills to do dmg. As @Ragnarock41 mentioned, a rework of passives oriented to enchants (which also include posion dmg) would be much better than this poison crap.

Molten whip looks cool on a hybrid build by the way, the only problem is that, as all the Ardent Flame skills passives, it requires an ardent flame skill to make it usable, which is plainly wrong. Why DKs is the only class whose dmg passives benefit only skils in one line instead of the whole class skill? (I'm not counting WiR, which is really bad)

NightAngel690

Here is my opinion on the changes to nightblades.
I will be splitting this into different sections and am specifically focusing on the performance of nightblades in pvp.

Soul harvest:
- With the changes of major defile to minor mangle, they will be unable to kill anyone as they can easily just out heal any damage they recieve. Sure their health will be taken down by 10% but the majority of the people found in cyrodill are usually running around with 25k+ heath this means it will only take away 2.5k heallth maybe 3k which is no big deal. The only reason any nightblade is viable in the pvp setting is the access to major defile. This is especially true when you consider the fact that the majority of players have crazy heals lately.

Grim focus:
The changes to minor berserk are redundant as wardens still have access to it. If you really wanted to balance out classes, you would need to take it away from wardens as well. Not only this but with the changes also affection minor endurance, stamblade sustain will be absolutely terrible. Unbuffed (with Dubious Cameron throne and bone pirate) my stamblade sits at 2.1k stamina recovery. Fully buffed (minor endurance, continuous attack, major endurance from potion, and recovery from killing someone with 2h slotted) this goes up to 2.8-3k and this is only for a short amount of time. The heals make up somewhat for the loss of damage but due to the fact that heals are cut in half, this means that even at 27k health this would only heal for 4320 health...not to mention debuffs and defilles and dots, this is pointless.

dark cloak:
The changes to this skill seem to be a little useless as it only heals for 32% of your max health over 3 seconds. For this to even be remotely effective, one needs to have high health to begin with. In other words, let’s translate that into context. The average player has <25k health which means it would only heal for 8k over three seconds..roughly 2.6k/s. Now take into account the fact that heals are cut in half in pvp, this translates to roughly 1.3k/s. The average light attack does 1.5-2k damage which means that the damage taken outdoes the healing done. To even make this remotely effective you would need to have over 25k health and the difference isn’t that noticeable. At 30k health, this translates to a mere 675hps or 5.4k over 8 seconds. This would also have negative impacts on nb tanks in a pve setting.

Suprise attack:

The loss of major fracture isn’t too big of a deal but to be frank, it’s the only reason to use this ability. If you take it away, the only option is to use flurry(dw) or dizzying swing (2h) as they deal way more damage than suprise attack does. On my stamblade, I can get the dizzying swing tool bar up to 20k as opposed to a 12k suprise attack. To put this into context, my dawn breaker deals 21k on the tool tip.

In short, all of these changes would have a negative impact on nightblades in which would result in them losing any viablitity in pvp. I hope you take this into consideration in any further changes.

Kalante

Kalante wrote: »

removing minor berserk is a terrible idea you are also inadvertently nerfing tons of healing in which brawler stamina nigthblades desperately needs severely. NOT EVERYONE PLAYS A GANKER STAMINA NIGHTBLADE.

hakan wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?
No.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
Yes, but not significantly.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
The Sorcerer received some good balancing.
For example, Streak is now more useful and Crystal Fragments is cheaper
"Bolt Escape: Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could stun targets behind walls. "
It is good to see you fixed the issue I reported.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
Yes.
Some of the best changes to Nightblade(mostly PVP perspective):
1. Death Stroke - the removal of the major defile.
The defile was too powerful for this ultimate ability.

2. Grim Focus - "Removed the Minor Berserk buff from this ability and its morphs."
Minor Berserk buff was a bit OP and I'm glad to see it gone!
It was adding too much to the Nightblade's dps in PVP and PVE.

3. Aspect of Terror - Mass Hysteria (morph) - "This morph no longer applies Minor Maim to the targets affected. Also increased the number of feared targets to 6 enemies from 2."
Minor maim had too high uptime.

4.Surprise Attack - "This ability no longer applies Major Fracture. Instead, if you use the ability on the flank of an enemy (behind or at their sides), you reduce their Physical Resistance by 5%. This effect cannot stack, but will always prioritize the highest value. "
This ability was too useful in PVP and it's great that you finally realized it.

5. Soul Tether (morph): "Adjusted this morph to adhere to our DoT standards.
Added a 1 second delay between the initial hit and the first DoT tick.
Increased the damage by approximately 4% per tick to make up for loss of first tick. This will result in the same DPS/HPS, but with less burst."
A good nerf to nightblades who bomb large groups of players.

The change to Dragonknight's "Reflective Scale" is good.
"Reflective Scale:
Renamed this ability to Protective Scale.
Converted the reflect function into a 50% damage reduction from projectiles. This happened to all 3 versions of the ability.
Dragon Fire Scale (morph): This ability no longer increases damage of reflected attacks, since it can no longer reflect. Incoming projectiles will now cause you to launch a fiery orb at the attacker that deals Flame Damage. Effect can occur once every half second.
Reflective Plate: Renamed this ability to Protective Plate. No other changes were made to the ability’s functionality.
"
It had too high uptime and effectiveness in PVP, essentially reflecting almost all projectiles.

Some of the good Warden changes:
Falcon’s Swiftness:
*"This ability no longer grants Major Endurance."
The Major Endurance was too powerful, good work.

Scorch: "This ability and its morphs can now be blocked."
A good change given the burst potential the warden has in PVP.

I see many good balance changes this patch.
Well done
Though PVE players are now less effective in combat because of changes made with PVP in mind.
I wish the combat system had two distinct functionalities, one in PVP and one in PVE.
You keep balancing PVP and PVE together, there will never be true balance.

you really think those nb changes will have too much effect on nb pve dmg? Because minor berserk and major fracture already provided by tanks and healers.

What is a stam nb suppose to do now? they don't have a support skill like templar's power of the light, an aoe, or dots. Surprise attack now is gonna be useless for reliant single target damage from moving target to target. Are they just suppose to spam surprise attack with nothing else supporting it? lmao but all the non nightblades, oh yea good change. Lets nerf it and not give anything back in return. Might as well remove all the skills from the nighblade with these nerfs because none of them are reliable now other than incap. They should had nerfed incap by 50% too since that's the theme that they are going here. Nerf nigthblades to uselessness by giving them the biggest nerfs of all time in eso.

That's if the templar lost it's breath of life and cleanse, the sorc shields now have no resistances, dk's lost all their dots/pressure, wardens no longer can spam mushrooms and get prey buffs. Lets just remove burst indefinitely from nigthblade, it's class defining feature because it kills players too fast. There are other ways of fixing this problem, removing defile from incap was a good change to let people have a fighting chance by healing but then after that the changes just fall apart that it even makes me question if anyone plays pvp nightblade in the dev team. From pve i can see why they did these changes because you can get them from other classes but for pvp you might as well not bring it anymore because they have completely neutered it offensively and defensively. Defensively too because for people that don't know nightblade, removing berserker buff also nerfs healing. In pve I don't even know what it will offfer to the table, it's single target to target damage is obviously gone they have no group support skills same reason why nobody uses them in pvp group play either. What a great time to be a nightblade.

MassTerror23

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I feel like there are a lot of boring, low impact passives in the original 4 classes that should be removed to make room for more interesting ones. These all have in common that the abilities they are buffing are exclusive to the class and thus do not create any further class identity or unique value. Removing these passives will also make balancing a little bit easier as ability durations can then be balanced independent of oneanother without needing to remember how the passives could potentially blow it out of proportion. Currently they all feel flat and not very meaningful.

Templar

• Enduring rays - Increases the duration of your Sun Fire, Eclipse, Solar Flare and Nova abilities by 2 seconds.

Dragonknight

• Searing Heat - Increases the damage of Fiery Breath, Searing Strike, and Dragonknight Standard abilities by 3% and the duration by 2 seconds.
• Eternal mountain - Increases the duration of Earthen Heart abilities by 20%.

Sorcerer

• Persistence - Increases the duration of Dark Magic abilities by 15%.

Nightblade

• Dark Veil - "Adjusted this passive to grant a flat 1 and 2 second duration increase to Shadow abilities".

There are some weapon abilities following the same boring and flat design.
Balanced Blade (2-handed), Controlled Fury (Dualwield), Ranger (Bow), Restoration Master (Restoration staff).

Hey now for dk searing heart is tied to the two stam abilities we got do say it’s pointless

Strider__Roshin

Kalante wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

removing minor berserk is a terrible idea you are also inadvertently nerfing tons of healing in which brawler stamina nigthblades desperately needs severely. NOT EVERYONE PLAYS A GANKER STAMINA NIGHTBLADE.

hakan wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?
No.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
Yes, but not significantly.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
The Sorcerer received some good balancing.
For example, Streak is now more useful and Crystal Fragments is cheaper
"Bolt Escape: Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could stun targets behind walls. "
It is good to see you fixed the issue I reported.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
Yes.
Some of the best changes to Nightblade(mostly PVP perspective):
1. Death Stroke - the removal of the major defile.
The defile was too powerful for this ultimate ability.

2. Grim Focus - "Removed the Minor Berserk buff from this ability and its morphs."
Minor Berserk buff was a bit OP and I'm glad to see it gone!
It was adding too much to the Nightblade's dps in PVP and PVE.

3. Aspect of Terror - Mass Hysteria (morph) - "This morph no longer applies Minor Maim to the targets affected. Also increased the number of feared targets to 6 enemies from 2."
Minor maim had too high uptime.

4.Surprise Attack - "This ability no longer applies Major Fracture. Instead, if you use the ability on the flank of an enemy (behind or at their sides), you reduce their Physical Resistance by 5%. This effect cannot stack, but will always prioritize the highest value. "
This ability was too useful in PVP and it's great that you finally realized it.

5. Soul Tether (morph): "Adjusted this morph to adhere to our DoT standards.
Added a 1 second delay between the initial hit and the first DoT tick.
Increased the damage by approximately 4% per tick to make up for loss of first tick. This will result in the same DPS/HPS, but with less burst."
A good nerf to nightblades who bomb large groups of players.

The change to Dragonknight's "Reflective Scale" is good.
"Reflective Scale:
Renamed this ability to Protective Scale.
Converted the reflect function into a 50% damage reduction from projectiles. This happened to all 3 versions of the ability.
Dragon Fire Scale (morph): This ability no longer increases damage of reflected attacks, since it can no longer reflect. Incoming projectiles will now cause you to launch a fiery orb at the attacker that deals Flame Damage. Effect can occur once every half second.
Reflective Plate: Renamed this ability to Protective Plate. No other changes were made to the ability’s functionality.
"
It had too high uptime and effectiveness in PVP, essentially reflecting almost all projectiles.

Some of the good Warden changes:
Falcon’s Swiftness:
*"This ability no longer grants Major Endurance."
The Major Endurance was too powerful, good work.

Scorch: "This ability and its morphs can now be blocked."
A good change given the burst potential the warden has in PVP.

I see many good balance changes this patch.
Well done
Though PVE players are now less effective in combat because of changes made with PVP in mind.
I wish the combat system had two distinct functionalities, one in PVP and one in PVE.
You keep balancing PVP and PVE together, there will never be true balance.

you really think those nb changes will have too much effect on nb pve dmg? Because minor berserk and major fracture already provided by tanks and healers.

What is a stam nb suppose to do now? they don't have a support skill like templar's power of the light, an aoe, or a dot. Surprise attack now is gonna be useless for reliant single target damage from moving target to target. Are they just suppose to spam surprise attack with nothing else supporting it? or not use it all better yet? lmao but all the non nightblades, oh yea good change. Lets nerf it and not give anything back in return.

The issue is that we're kind of forced to use it because we don't have a self buff that grants us majors for 20+ seconds. At the moment I'm planning on using Chuden as my 2-piece, and make power Extraction as my spammable. It hits almost as hard as Surprise Attack except it hits everything around you, it generates ultimate, and it's undodgeable. The idea of spamming an AoE the whole time sounds so freaking boring though; I just may drop the class for something that's more fun to play.

Kalante

Daus wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

removing minor berserk is a terrible idea you are also inadvertently nerfing tons of healing in which brawler stamina nigthblades desperately needs severely. NOT EVERYONE PLAYS A GANKER STAMINA NIGHTBLADE.

hakan wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?
No.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
Yes, but not significantly.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
The Sorcerer received some good balancing.
For example, Streak is now more useful and Crystal Fragments is cheaper
"Bolt Escape: Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could stun targets behind walls. "
It is good to see you fixed the issue I reported.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
Yes.
Some of the best changes to Nightblade(mostly PVP perspective):
1. Death Stroke - the removal of the major defile.
The defile was too powerful for this ultimate ability.

2. Grim Focus - "Removed the Minor Berserk buff from this ability and its morphs."
Minor Berserk buff was a bit OP and I'm glad to see it gone!
It was adding too much to the Nightblade's dps in PVP and PVE.

3. Aspect of Terror - Mass Hysteria (morph) - "This morph no longer applies Minor Maim to the targets affected. Also increased the number of feared targets to 6 enemies from 2."
Minor maim had too high uptime.

4.Surprise Attack - "This ability no longer applies Major Fracture. Instead, if you use the ability on the flank of an enemy (behind or at their sides), you reduce their Physical Resistance by 5%. This effect cannot stack, but will always prioritize the highest value. "
This ability was too useful in PVP and it's great that you finally realized it.

5. Soul Tether (morph): "Adjusted this morph to adhere to our DoT standards.
Added a 1 second delay between the initial hit and the first DoT tick.
Increased the damage by approximately 4% per tick to make up for loss of first tick. This will result in the same DPS/HPS, but with less burst."
A good nerf to nightblades who bomb large groups of players.

The change to Dragonknight's "Reflective Scale" is good.
"Reflective Scale:
Renamed this ability to Protective Scale.
Converted the reflect function into a 50% damage reduction from projectiles. This happened to all 3 versions of the ability.
Dragon Fire Scale (morph): This ability no longer increases damage of reflected attacks, since it can no longer reflect. Incoming projectiles will now cause you to launch a fiery orb at the attacker that deals Flame Damage. Effect can occur once every half second.
Reflective Plate: Renamed this ability to Protective Plate. No other changes were made to the ability’s functionality.
"
It had too high uptime and effectiveness in PVP, essentially reflecting almost all projectiles.

Some of the good Warden changes:
Falcon’s Swiftness:
*"This ability no longer grants Major Endurance."
The Major Endurance was too powerful, good work.

Scorch: "This ability and its morphs can now be blocked."
A good change given the burst potential the warden has in PVP.

I see many good balance changes this patch.
Well done
Though PVE players are now less effective in combat because of changes made with PVP in mind.
I wish the combat system had two distinct functionalities, one in PVP and one in PVE.
You keep balancing PVP and PVE together, there will never be true balance.

you really think those nb changes will have too much effect on nb pve dmg? Because minor berserk and major fracture already provided by tanks and healers.

What is a stam nb suppose to do now? they don't have a support skill like templar's power of the light, an aoe, or a dot. Surprise attack now is gonna be useless for reliant single target damage from moving target to target. Are they just suppose to spam surprise attack with nothing else supporting it? or not use it all better yet? lmao but all the non nightblades, oh yea good change. Lets nerf it and not give anything back in return.

The issue is that we're kind of forced to use it because we don't have a self buff that grants us majors for 20+ seconds. At the moment I'm planning on using Chuden as my 2-piece, and make power Extraction as my spammable. It hits almost as hard as Surprise Attack except it hits everything around you, it generates ultimate, and it's undodgeable. The idea of spamming an AoE the whole time sounds so freaking boring though; I just may drop the class for something that's more fun to play.

you can't kill a decent player from any of the other classes by just spamming power extraction or any one skill for that matter without a strong support or strong pressure which nigthblades don't have any of that. You might as well forget about a nightblade entirely and roll a mag templar lol.

Starlock

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for current class balance and the class ability audit in this update. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?
• Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
• Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
• Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Hello Gina! I play on console so I can't participate in the PTS, but I like to offer some thoughts from time to time for consideration. I can't speak much to the concept of class balance personally as it isn't a particular concern of mine. Instead my thoughts come more from the perspective of "how might these changes impact my characters and their ability to do what I usually like to do with them?" I focus on developing characters that keep to a persona, story/questing, overland world bosses, and doing occasional 4-person dungeons via group finder. To avoid making this post overly long, I won't comment on abilities/changes/elements that I don't really have personal experience with and only remark on the especially noteworthy stuff.

Dragonknight Changes
For context, my dragonknight is magicka-melee. He uses 1-handed weapons exclusively, so last patch was kind of bad for him with the changes to enchant strength. Overall, the changes proposed will help make up for him being hobbled by that change so he should come out stronger. A few highlight points:

• Improvements to Fiery Breath, Inhale, Dark Talons, and Fiery Grip will all help make his character work a little better.
• Lava Whip changes mean I will be using Molten Whip next patch, but this is mainly because off-balance is not happening as it should be (see https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459425/off-balance-broken)
• I have not used Reflective Scale because it is kinda pointless outside of PvP. Changes here mean I might actually bother to have him learn it and take the Dragon Fire Scale morph. It looks neat!

Nightblade Changes
My nightblade is al magicka-based character who uses dual wield and an ice staff (no, not a tank). She also had some problems with the changes to 1-handed enchants. Overall, she's just been in a weird spot for a while now and the changes won't do much to help her or hurt her.

• Grim Focus is problematic because I can't ever seem to get the stacking mechanic to work well. I don't use the ability currently as a result, and while the changes look interesting, I still won't use it because of the weird mechanic.
• Changes to Teleport Strike are awful. I don't usually slot the skill, but if this change goes through I will probably never slot it. As it stands, I have not morphed this skill because you loose the stun on the magicka morph. When I slot this skill, I slot it because I want a gap closer that will stun an NPC. My nightblade is an ambusher/assassin, and without the stun, there is no point to using it at all over sneaking up behind them and doing blade of woe. I strongly suspect this change was driven by PvP agendas. That's fine, but how about you leave the NPC stunning effect alone? Instead of stunning PCs, make it apply Minor Vulnerability to PCs instead of snare?
• Changes to fear will make Aspect of Terror less fun. Watching things run away is fun. Things will no longer run away.. and that is less fun. Don't get me wrong, the running away could be annoying, but... I would rather have it than not. Because fun.

Sorcerer Changes
My sorcerer is my beloved first character and a lightning mage who uses (of course) two lightning staves. He's been through all sorts of ups and downs, of which sustain is his constant bane of issues. Overall, not much will change for him with the proposed revisions which is a relief, and a few of his regular abilities will get a bit of a boost.

• Tweaks to Bolt Escape, Boundless Storm, and Lightning Flood look great! The change to Overload will be especially interesting as it is probably my favorite ultimate in the game. I still dearly miss the light attacks hitting like a truck, though.
• I started trying to use Dark Exchange to deal with his sustain issues and inability to get Minor Prophecy even though this skill doesn't fit his character. My experience playing with this ability is that it's awful because of the cast time. I kept thinking I was lagging or glitching out or something before I realized that's just how the ability works. Consider taking a look at this a bit, especially when you do a sweep through the passives.

I do technically have a stamina sorcerer as well, but I haven't really played her much and little will change for her based on what I read.

Templar Changes
My templar is a stamina character whose prime role is tanking (2-hander + 1h/shield), but when questing I usually gear him with a 2-hander and bow. There have been ups and downs with that over various patch cycles and this one looks like it's going to be mostly a down.

• I'm obviously not a fan of the change to Empowering Sweep and this is the most frustrating change I noticed in the patch notes. My character uses this skill for damage mitigation while tanking and now he will be loosing this tool from his kit. It means he will have no class ultimates slotted while tanking. I had to look up with this "Remembrance" skill was that supposedly gave Major Protection. No templar tank is going to want to disable themselves for 4 seconds to cast this, but I guess I'll experiment with it if this goes live. Please remember - some overlap in functionality within the class is not a bad thing. The new version looks kind of neat, granted, but... still not a fan.
• On the plus side, Sun Shield (Radiant Ward) changes may make this a more useful tanking tool.

Warden Changes
My warden is a stamina character who uses only bows. She's been pretty solid game mechanics wise since wardens have been a thing, with mostly improvements being thrown in her direction. That trend continues.

• I usually queue her as a stamina healer in randoms, a role that is surprisingly fun though a bit lacking in some regards. Many changes proposed will really enhance the prospect of her being a full-on healer. The increased radius from Lotus Flower and the change to Nature's Grasp will both be amazing for this.

I also have a magicka warden healer, but haven't played her a bunch. Best change is to Harvest synergy, but honestly? Demanding players to activate a synergy to heal is just a bad design. Nobody uses it in randoms. Can I like... force them to use it somehow? No, seriously - we need a way to make players use beneficial synergies like heals or something. =P

Artim_X

PvE petless magicka sorcerer perspective:

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?
Nope.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
Yes, the lighting splash duration change has made both morphs interesting. On live even though my rotation is short lighting flood didn't last long enough to fit my rotation so liquid lightning felt like the only viable morph, but now flood fits perfectly for my playstyle as well. The slight change to cast time abilities has made dark deal feel a bit nicer to use.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
Significantly stronger. I love the changes made to Mages' Wrath, Boundless Storm, and Streak. Especially streak, since I've always felt disappointed when a mob seemingly gets back up immediately after getting stunned. A 3 second stun feels perfect for the offensive morph.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?Do you have any other general feedback?
In relation to abilities that I like to use sure, but as others have mentioned stam sorcs are lacking in identity. If we got some more stam morphs I might dust off my stam sorc.

Blinkin8r

Taking Major Defile away from incap (A debuff that a set gives you just by being close to someone) and replacing it with Minor Mangle (a debuf that is applied to players via an extremely cheap lightning staff ability) DURING THE DURATION OF THE STUN IF OVER 120 ULT is an absolute joke.

Taking Major Fracture off Surprise attack, a single target ability, is not a good change. Wardens have an AOE ability that does easily as much damage as Surprise attack AND applies Major Fracture.

Taking Minor Berserk, and Minor Endurance off Relentless Focus, leaves us with nothing more than a bow proc. So you gutted that ability and gave us nothing to compensate. Mark Target is a useless ability and should not be the only source for Major Fracture.

Stam Nightblades has no AOE class abilities other than power extraction (big lolz). They were designed to excel at single target damage, and these changes are clearly against that. Extremely disappointed in the direction this game is going.

Glory

Kudos to adding max stat scaling to several skills, really just a nice QoL change for those who want to use utility skills.

This coming from someone who plays magicka, so won't really benefit from this.