PTS Update 22 - Feedback Thread for Class Balance

technohic

Tested my magblade.

Acceleration is going to be a nice addition and will help most magicka characters

Lotus fan adding vulnerability is nice

Seems with the heal being 7 m on assassin's will, you want magblade to go melee more. Sap essence could use a boost to healing for this. The base is really small to where 20% per enemy hit is suicide to attempt rather than rewarding.

As someone else mentioned; it feels awkward to have to keep relentless focus up like it's a buff when now it is a proc, not a buff. Adds unnecessary tedium

Did I miss the patch note for shadow image getting fixed? I was able to reliably port to it so thank you for that.

Xogath

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for current class balance and the class ability audit in this update. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?
• Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
• Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
• Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

@ZOS_GinaBruno


* Fiery Breath: Increased the damage of the initial hit of this ability by 200% to be on par with our PBAoE standards. The base ability will now rank up in damage for the entire ability, rather than just the DoT.

Can we get a pass on the cone of this ability? It feels incredibly clunky and ineffective at times compared to other abilities that use a conal-type effect area.

* Inferno: This ability and its morphs now operate like the Flames of Oblivion morph, where they will scale with your highest offensive stats. Also increased the power of these abilities by 5%.

* Flames of Oblivion (morph): This morph no longer exclusively adds the dynamic scaling mechanism. Instead, the morph retains the gaining of Major Savagery, and hits 1 additional enemy.

The dynamic scaling being added to the ability as a whole, and the slight damage increase, is good. However, due to its abysmal duration compared to other class abilities, it's incredibly awkward to fit in to a rotation at any point. Can we either:

1. Double the duration, lower the damage to compensate for overall better uptime.
2. Turn the ability in to a toggle; so it is basically active 100% of the time visually (yay fire!), however only allow it to shoot the fireball after X conditions are met. This could be X amount of light or heavy attacks (promotes and rewards weaving), X amount of uses of other Ardent Flame abilities, or some other conditions. Similar to the Spell Orb passive from the Psijic Order tree.

* Lava Whip: Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by 5% to put it in line with other melee “spammables”.

All of these abilities are Magicka-based; is one of them to be changed to a Stamina morph? It would honestly make a good spammable for Stamina DKs with a mechanic like that. If not, how about redesigning Venomous Claw to fill that role, with similar or slightly different mechanics?

* Searing Strike: Adjusted this ability and its morphs to follow our standardized Damage Over Time ruleset. Decreased the total duration to 8 seconds from 8.5 seconds, and increased the damage per tick by approximately 12.5% to make up for the loss of the first tick. This will result in roughly the same overall DPS, but with less burst damage.

As stated above, this change doesn't really do much for Stamina DKs, as we still lack a reliable spammable ability outside of using something from a Weapon line. While I am not totally against that, it just makes sense to at least have ONE good class-based spammable ability for both Magicka and Stamina builds.

That said, if Magicka builds are getting Lava Whip in its current iteration (which is surprisingly good, make no mistake), why not do something similar with Venomous Claw? Proposed changes would require a little more work than what has been shown thusfar, but would help the identity of the class as a whole:

Make Venomous Claw and Noxious breath synergize in some way. Since Noxious Breath still applies Major Fracture and a Poison DoT, why don't we make the DoT a unique, class-based DoT (Dragonblood Poison?), and have Venomous Claw work with it in some way, for example:

1. While Dragonblood Poison is active on the target, using Venomous Claw against said target could either increase/refresh the duration of the Dragonblood Poison, grant Venomous Claw extra damage, or provide the Dragon Knight with a small-stacking buff that did something unique when it reached X stacks.
2. Give both Noxious Breath and Venomous Claw their own unique, class-based Poison/Disease DoTs, and have them both do something slightly different while either debuff is on the target. For example, if Dragonblood Poison is on the target when Venomous Claw is used, have it do something neat. If Dragonblood Disease (or similarly-named debuff) is on the target when Noxious Breath is used against the same target, have it do something neat.

Class mechanics like that will help solidify and identify the classes plainly and, honestly, very interestingly. It would promote the use of class-based abilities while still leaving room for abilities from other skill lines, and make the gameplay very engaging, and rewarding for paying attention to detail.

While I feel like the identities of other classes I've often played (Nightblade, as Stamina) have been represented.. mostly well, I feel like Dragon Knights, Stamina in particular, are very underwhelming and don't seem to have their own place as far as class identity.

Tommy_The_Gun

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

.

I agree...

John_1999

well class balance,

Templars Cleansing Ritual cost a lot of magic, while Expunge is for free and restores a lot of resources.
If I as Templar would have access to Expunge, I would take it over Cleansing Ritual anytime.

Leave Eclipse damage as it is, it has its counters, cc-break it or remove it with cleansing skills.
It is one good skill for Templars to pressure enemies and it gives a feeling of defending the Templars house.

Piercing Javelin is too expensive, for a projectile that can be blocked and dodged.
You can stun 6 ppl. with mass hysteria (unblockable and undodgeable)
Petrify unblockable and undodgeable.

Toppling Charge Damage, leave it as it is, I have never ever seen anyone complaining about the damage of that skill.

Templars in general don't need damage nerfs.

As a Magplar you have one of the worst mobility in the game, so ppl. go for Vamp and Mistform to be able to move in PVP.
With all the damage buffs to DK's it will be even harder to survive as a VAMP. This is also a nerf to Templars.

ecru

iCaliban wrote: »

Daedric prey nerf hurts pve pet sorc badly. They are only barely viable for high end raid groups currently. This nerf combined with the NB nerf will leave mag templars as the clear and overwhelming favorite for pve end game ranged dps.

This isn't true. Petsorc is the best magicka dps on live at the moment, suggesting they are "only barely viable" is completely wrong. Sorc pets are doing a pretty ridiculous amount of damage in pve and pvp on the live servers and I'm not surprised they're toning it down a bit.

olsborg

You overnerfed nbs. Sure they needed a nerf, but taking both minor endurance and minor berserk from relentless focus was overdoing it.

juhislihis19

Can I finally get an answer why NECROmancer has 5 stamina morhps but dragonKNIGHT only has 2?

Seems like MagDK got buffed, and apart from Obnoxious Breath (this was buffed for mDKs as well), stamDKs got fudge all.

StamDK:

Still many useless passives
Still just DOTs after DOTs - no AOE, no burst
Wings nerfed
No sensible way to access major buffs (except Fracture)
No burst heal
No identity, just general weapon skills


ZOS, you failed.

Kalante

removing minor berserk is a terrible idea you are also inadvertently nerfing tons of healing in which brawler stamina nigthblades desperately needs more not less. NOT EVERYONE PLAYS A GANKER STAMINA NIGHTBLADE.

Tommy_The_Gun

In my previus post I said that giving feedback is pointless etc... I guess I overreacted to patch notes... Anyway,
You can only die once, right? :

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
Solo overland nb is much weaker and harder to play mostly because Teleport Strike npc stunn is gone. Often it was a difference between life & death. Especially when you are facing multiple npc mobs. NB is "squishy" compared to other class and the NPC stunning mechanics was giving this "risk & reward" feeling:
Should I go and attack the target ? Or retreat ? I have low health... I may stun the target and kill it before it kills me.

Do you have any other general feedback?
Yes. Bring the "teleport strike" npc stunn back. It does not affects players anyway and it is single target only. Shorten the stun duration if necessary.

Otherwise the only way NB will be able to have acces to stun mechanics is only if you attack from stealth. Not every one plays nb as a stealth class. And now it seems that they will have to, even if they only do easiest type of content - questing, overland, delves or public dungeons. Additionally it hurts an "average joe" the most. Skilled end game players may be "ok" as they will most likely survive, but for some one who is just learning the game & leveling up, the removal of teleport strike npc stunn will be a frustrating change.

Mayrael

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Do you have any news about Shade and Undo getting fixed?

Jagdkommando

ruikkarikun wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?
Nightblade changes are against LOGIC
Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?

Better but not sure 100%

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
Nightblade became weaker

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
No

Do you have any other general feedback?
You nerfed popular class to the ground, nerfed food, each patch you force people do ADAPT TO BE WEAKER. Where is the logic? Ppl are spending hours to play this game for years to ADAPT AND BE WEAKER, because you wanted to make changes for changes? Do combat team know about words like "alternative", "new options", "buffs", "buff other isntead of nerf" etc?

Totally agree!!!!!!!! Buff others instead nerfing strong classes!!!! We pay money to have fun, in this way I'm unable to have fun!

efster

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?
Yeah, nightblade dark cloak heal changes are completely against the spirit of the class. NB healers are able to provide a burst heal to allies by sacrificing some health, NB tanks SHOULD be able to call upon the shadows for a burst heal, yet the devs feel we shouldn't have a "bursty" heal at all because IDK, PVP???? Stupid, pointless, unimaginative change.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
I don't need to weave abilities, I'm a tank. I want to be able to tank on my NB without having to jump through hoops to do things; why can't ZoS just give us the minor vuln and fear changes without forcing NB tanks to slot THREE skills just to selfheal when a healer isn't babysitting us?

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
NB tanks got weaker.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
No.

Do you have any other general feedback?
Stop curbstomping NB tanks!!! Just stop it! Why is this hard?

LoreToo

Ok. I'm here olny for 1 thing. Thank you. This is THE BEST class and skills changes we've seen for 2 years. Realy, no sarcasm at all. God job whole dev team.
And god bless, do not listen to crying kinds on mNB. You buffed this class for pvp content, and keep it ok for pve content.
Great to see some snare immunity from psijic skill line, keep it up.

Nice to see some "time changes" for skills with 6.5/8.2/1.1 seconds cast time. Quick reminder: pls, dont forget to do same thing with dark conversion/uppercut/flurry and other skills with some bad cast time. We will wait, its ok.

I just close my eyes and dont see server problems, queues, bugs and ect, this balance changes are great. Good job!

vesselwiththepestle

I really like the buffs to Stam DK.

I LOVE the change to Flurry (cooldown adjustment)!

Buffed Flurry + Deadly Strike = 10k more DPS than I do currently on live with classic berserking warrior setup and venomous claw pseudo-spammable (54k dps instead of 44k self-buffed no cheese golden food Orc StamDK). Even with the huge indirect hit to sustain, which is definitely noticeable! (Flurry is a bit more expensive than Venomous Claw, lol.) I tested on the new dummy, too, and some of the outside buffs stayed active after being out of combat . So no 10k dps increase, I need to do all my tests again when I have slept a bit, lol.

It is so much easier and more enjoyable now to weave Flurry in your rotation!

Chubarov_S

LoreToo wrote: »

And god bless, do not listen to crying kinds on mNB. You buffed this class for pvp content, and keep it ok for pve content.

do you have any idea what you're talking about?

frostz417

I like it

Tasear

Really a huge fan of all Nightblade utility option now. I having trouble deciding which morphs to take now for my healer. 🤤 Do I go hybrid or Magicka healer ... decisions.

Cinderstorm instead of increasing healing how about give people who walk in it minor valitity.

I don't see point in lighting flood and overload changes. Just consider giving it support for tank/healer on lighting flood. Overload could have a wind morph for stamina peps.

tamrielwinner

"Reduced the cast time of this ability and its morphs to 1 second from 1.1 seconds.
Reduced the damage dealt by 25% to make up for the removal of the post global noted earlier.
Increased the travel speed of the arrow to put it in line with other projectiles."
-post global and a .1s faster cast have zero impact on anything for pvp here. 25% damage nerf to this ability is a flat 25% nerf in pvp.
you're completely gutting this ability. if it's so enormously game-destroying, receiving the largest nerf i've ever seen in this or probably any other MMO, to a spec that appears to be pretty uncommon, it should have been nerfed before half a decade of gameplay and before the hordes all become snipers(they're not). stop.

DisgracefulMind

tamrielwinner wrote: »

"Reduced the cast time of this ability and its morphs to 1 second from 1.1 seconds.
Reduced the damage dealt by 25% to make up for the removal of the post global noted earlier.
Increased the travel speed of the arrow to put it in line with other projectiles."
-post global and a .1s faster cast have zero impact on anything for pvp here. 25% damage nerf to this ability is a flat 25% nerf in pvp.
you're completely gutting this ability. if it's so enormously game-destroying, receiving the largest nerf i've ever seen in this or probably any other MMO, to a spec that appears to be pretty uncommon, it should have been nerfed before half a decade of gameplay and before the hordes all become snipers(they're not). stop.

Snipe is uncommon? Are we playing the same game?

forumsmurf

Given that you're trying to make certain skills work for both stam and mag specs by allowing them to scale off highest max resource, why don't you treat Molten Whip the same way? It already gives weapon damage and promotes the slotting of this skill in a Magelight-esque way for StamDKs, why not just make it scale off weapon damage and max stam as well? It can be kept as a flame damage rather than poison damage ability but it would make more sense as it also promotes the casting of the whip to keep up the Seething Fury stacks and also use the increased damage proc.

Parasaurolophus

"Surprise Attack: This ability no longer applies Major Fracture. Instead, if you use the ability on the flank of an enemy (behind or at their sides), you reduce their Physical Resistance by 5%. This effect cannot stack, but will always prioritize the highest value."
Flank is useless for pve. Do something about it please. Do not force stamnb to use flurry or flyung blade.

ESO_Nightingale

a bunch of this stuff has been brought up in the past by not only us, but the class representitives too, partly. however, i'll write it again because not really much has changed for the better of Magden.

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?

Yes. i think there are many changes that were made that are against the spirit of the class. And i will list them.

First. Arctic Blast was a skill that a lot of people enjoyed. it did frost damage and was very flavourful as a tank heal. it was amazing at proccing chilled. however this skill was destroyed in murkmire to be given an absolutely shoddy stun that deals no damage, had a slower projectile speed than destro reach, was blockable and dodgeable and heals close to nothing all with an expensive cost. this patch, it heals 1% more every tick and is as fast as destro reach. Still horrible and expensive. it should do a really good frost DoT or something for us to even consider using it over shock clench and flame reach. how does it hit someone with enough force to knock someone down, but deal no damage? Side note. Our compensation for the loss of arctic blast is a 5 piece set? We know it is our compensation as it has the same chilled proc chance every 2 seconds, but this time it's actually listed on the set. This set was a kick in the groin.

Second. Falcon's Swiftness was for the most part, a really great skill pre-murkmire. when it was a buff skill, it gave us minor berserk on both of our bars and a good duration on major expedition and major endurance. we did have issues with buffs, don't get me wrong but although i was sad to see that i could only get the buff on one bar, however, i was devastated that warden's signature speed was slashed to normal levels with everyone else's major expedition when other classes have gap closers to enemies. Magicka Warden was hit the worst by these changes in pvp. this patch, we got major endurance removed and duration increased to 6 seconds. while probably better than last patch it's not enough still and not worth using anymore compared to race against time. People will just drop this skill all together for race against time. it still needs to be worth casting.

Third. Advanced species passive. this skill got a 1% buff. This is a lot when you're using a lot of animal companions skills. and that's the problem. Because advanced species is now like this, it will feel punishing to use other DPS damage skills in the future if we get them. For now, it can stay. But if we get the new DPS skills we need, it needs to be reverted back to 2% to make it fair for not only us, but other classes too.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?

I don't think this is related to the new changes. Or even the game itself, however, every update my already bad Australian ping has gotten worse. In the next year it might reach 400. Because of this issue it gets harder and harder to use my skills.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?

Absolutely weaker. Magden will be in the worse state it has EVER been in and it's only played in part by the standardised snare nerf across the board. However, that is absolutely a nerf that it deserved. But we just got no worthy compensation.

(Magden did rely too heavily on Deep Fissure and Sleet Storm's Snare. these 2 skills now not only have counterplay, but snares are easier to fight against across the board! i was very happy to see this change. but what i was not happy to see is that we were not given anything to show for it. which means we got nerfed. Crystallised slab was it for buffs. basically. which is potentially usable now, even though the other morph gives major heroism. bird of prey is now outclassed.)

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?

Overperforming:

• Sleet Storm and it's Morphs:
  YES! ABSOLUTELY! this was the right nerf to give to the skill. A+! i know a lot of my other words have been negative, but this snare was so oppressive for other people playing against us. now they also have a really good way to deal with snares and immobilises too. awesome work!
  
• Deep Fissure:
  this skill was a massive burst tool. it was indirectly and directly nerfed this patch, with it now being blockable. which will help people against Stamden's big damage burst. it was easily enabled by Sleet Storm's huge snare, since no-one could get away while also not being able to move, it allowed for easy kills, especially since they couldn't block the burst. not anymore. thank f for that. we can perhaps focus on skilled gameplay now.
  
  Future edit:
  
  This change is very crippling to the class. My initial reaction was one of joy but now it seems as if it was a nerf in the wrong area of the skill. The audit was trying to make everything more standardised. But this nerf destroys us in more focused PvP. And doesn't help much against groups at all. It should be reverted.

Underperforming:

• Arctic Blast: no. no. no. this skill is not in a good state at all, STILL! I would wager that it's a lot worse now than it ever was.
  
• Falcon's swiftness and morphs: no. this skill has not been handled at all well recently. it's now overshadowed by race against time, and Deceptive predator is still pretty bad.
  
  Falcons, for example could have ALSO been given immunity to snares and immobilisations by 2 seconds on the base skill and morphs to make it worth slotting and casting again. it's not as much as race against time, but it reflects wardens fast nature, not to mention that they would also lose minor force and 2 seconds of precious immunity. Deceptive would also gain 4 more seconds of expedition duration from 6 to 10. This would then also show morphs that are good choices rather than just "i'll use Bird of Prey" all of the time.
  
• Nature's Grasp: thank you for allowing bear to be targeted with this again. however bursting vines STILL doesn't heal the caster.
  
• Crystallised Slab: I speak about this skill more in depth below in General feedback. but generally, while it's better now, it probably should still receive a full rework to make Magden have more controllable damage skills to work with. it also means that if they were using this new damage skill, they would lose a defensive tool and major heroism, so it would really have to be worth it.
  
• Winter's Revenge: I've reported a bug on this skill, only for said bug to be fixed soon after, so i don't know if you guys were already going to fix it. the skill is pretty boring and with the release of necromancer's boneyard, it really puts winter's revenge to absolute shame with it's interesting and helpful effects. it's not a bad skill. but it's like a beat up station wagon compared to all the bells and whistles on the new Ferrari that is boneyard.
  
• Magic Damage skills: Screaming Cliff Racer still no longer lines up with deep fissure burst. and not only that, but the morph effect still does not work on the class. Deep Fissure limits the class to a 12 meter range. beyond that, it becomes hard to hit Deep Fissure. meaning that the morph effect to try and put it in ranged is bizarre and doesn't fit on the class. Swarm is really boring and the most generic DoT in the game. Fetcher Infection is an inconsistent "why?" morph that everyone picks because it's better, and growing swarm is too situational to use. If growing swarm was instead the class stun, it would have helped tremendously in pvp, on top of it actually making sense. A swarm of bugs attacking you would make you either flinch or run away in fear. Instead arctic blast was destroyed, when people used the skill to proc chilled.
  
• Group Utility: We still don't have enough of it on Magden or on Stamden. Stamden is better at it in the meantime as they use green lotus more than we use lotus blossom. So Magden not only does less dps, but has slightly less group utility to bring to the table. Both can offer ranged slayer.
  

Do you have any other general feedback?

Inconsistency in themes:
Magicka Warden is a very strange class when it comes to themes. it has 2 main themes of nature and ice. which already feels a tiny bit weird, but it's made worse by the types of animals showcased in the abilities. these are animals from Vvardenfell. this can be very confusing to people who are new to the elder scrolls. as they would see these very alien creatures and be a little confused. it's pretty hard to relate to animals that we haven't grown up with. everyone knows a bear. which is why a lot of people like it. but then we get to normal damage skills, which would be seen as: a pterodactyl, a couple of big beetles, a swarm of flies and a weird floating jellyfish squid. these creatures are certainly unique for sure. but they absolutely don't fit with the bear, the likes of which i have never seen in Morrowind apart from other warden bears. but these Vvardenfell animals also are known to live in a highly volcanic area, devoid of snow. so why is it that wardens have frost magic? this seems hugely inconsistent and strange to many of us.

A way to remedy this issue, would be to release skins for all of the animal companions animals on the crown store which include a new icon and animation. I don't doubt if priced fairly, that these would be really popular if released in province sets. for example, and i'm going a bit crazy here, but for Skyrim you can replace Deep Fissure's shalks with ice wraiths. Netch with a Wisp, Screaming Cliff Racer with a Hawk and fetcher flies with Bees or even Torch Bugs! deep fissure could also be replaced with Crocodiles for black marsh or Dune Rippers for Hammerfell. everyone loves to customise their characters, and with warden it's especially important because of the specific animals chosen for the base skills.

• Frost DPS:
  So many people want this to be real. And while i respect that there isn't anywhere else to put a magicka tanking weapon, people don't want it as a tanking weapon because it conflicts with the past elder scrolls games. not to mention the lore of destruction magic. There should be a new magicka weapon in the future, and when that happens, frost should be turned back into DPS like it always has been. for now it is a quickly slapped together weapon at a cross roads where more people want it to deal damage than to tank with, as it already has damage skills in place that have little to no relevance to a tank.
  
  however you guys don't have to touch the frost staff yet. Winter's Embrace has a lot of underpowered and underused morphs while being on a class with a severe damage skill shortage and a bunch of people who were hungry for what was advertised in that trailer. a frost mage with animals. These are the morphs and passives that can be played around with and i will quickly explain why each skill is in need of a change. again.
  
  • Expansive Frost Cloak:
    28m range and a cost reduction is often times not good enough when shown ice fortress. which gives minor protection and it already has a big radius of 8 meters. you're not spamming the skill. so the cost reduction does not really help much. the skill may work well enough if it was to gain old arctic blast's AoE. That way it will proc chilled often and provide some flavour to the skill.
    
  • Arctic Blast: i've stated above as to why this skill is bad. On a Sidenote, Polar Wind could gain old arctic blast's AoE. That way it will proc chilled often and provide some flavour to the irritatingly boring skill.
    
  • Crystallised Slab (even after the buff.): this skill isn't too bad anymore and i always called it a knockoff version of DK wings, but it's now essentially just DK wings this patch. This skill is still outclassed by Shimmering Shield. it should instead be reworked completely to no longer have a damage shield, but to instead be something like a proc damage skill. that way you chose between defence and offence instead of defence and defence. warden needs more offensive capability and it's too reactionary and similar to DK wings now. i used to advocate exactly for the buff that was given here, but i had since changed my mind and thought the skill should be completely reworked into a controllable frost damage skill. see "Chilled and Warden" below.
    
  • Frozen Retreat:
    I and many others like the idea of this skill, but it does not work in practise. when an ally activates the synergy they are teleported to the tank.... who is in a middle of a group of enemies.... and the ally dies. no this skill is contradictory and not used hardly at all. after discussion with my fellow wardens, we believe that this skill should do around 60% more frost damage perhaps in an AoE, or with some given as a DoT, but no longer pull enemies. while also increasing the synergy pull's range in pvp as it doesn't scale with the increase. this would turn the skill into an effective DPS trap skill, used in PvP to help save allies from danger. when placed in a doorway, an ally can teleport to you and get away when an enemy would be hurt badly by stepping in it. it makes a lot more sense and gives Magden some more strategic skills to use in PvP. PLEASE NOTE. FROZEN GATE AND IT'S MORPHS ARE REFLECTABLE! there are still ways to reflect in the game. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/442140/turns-out-frozen-gate-can-be-reflected-video-proof
    
  • Chilled and Warden:
    Currently warden has a +200% chance to apply chilled to enemies on a bunch of skills that are either uncontrollable or AoEs. frozen retreat only hits a single target, arctic blast doesn't do damage any more, crystallised slab is reactionary and impaling and sleet storm are AoEs which benefit the least. There is also little reason for the damage dealer to use chilled in PvE. so perhaps this passive can be updated to make it so get minor force from applying chilled to enemies. when this happens, it frees up one of magden's DPS slots in PvE for future frost damage skills so they no longer have to keep a buff up. Currently, Dueling Magdens run Shadowrend to get their minor maim proc, even though the class has an increased chance to proc it. It's too inconsistent and Magdens would love a reason or 2 to proc it.
    

notyuu

Tempalr, fopcused charge and morphs
Can we FINALLY get the lunge speed [speed of running over and hitting the target] increased to be in line with other gap closers?

If I had a penny for every time I've had somebody ltieralyl outrun the gap closer, be it via mount, blink, chain or some other mobility method [including a few times, just sprinting] I would have enough money to buy a RTX 2080 with enough left over for pizza.

also the fact that you can dodge the stun AFTER the charge lands...and the fact that if you charge somebody that's using streak, you hit them, THEN they blink THEN are stunned

Faulgor

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?

The issue is that stamina Sorcerer still doesn't have a spirit, especially in PvE. The only active skill they use from their class kit is Hurricane (which I'd still like to see a visual overhaul for, the fact that my character becomes downright invisible in many environments is not helpful or fun, and it obstructs other visual effects), and Bound Armaments is only slotted for the passive effects.
When I look at the differences between the classes and what makes Sorcerers feel distinct in PvE, I think it's two things: Pets and Procs. Sorcerers are the only class with permanent pets, and Crystal Fragments keeps rotations dynamic and engaging without feeling too demanding. I think stamina Sorcerers could work similarly, but there'd have to be some adjustments.

• Find room for Stamina pets. Wardens have them, Nightblades now have them, Necromancers have them. There is no excuse why there shouldn't be any for the summoner class. Whether they just provide a beneficial aura or have active abilities, there has to be some use for Daedric Summoning on a stamina Sorcerer.
• Make Bound Armaments an offensive ability. It's called Armaments for a reason. The block cost reduction can be kept on Bound Aegis, which is a more effective tool for tanking anyway.
• Add a stamina morph in the Dark Magic skill tree. It is currently dead for stamina Sorcerers, and overall there seem to be too many unused morphs in this tree - honestly, I've never seen anyone use Encase since beta. Ideally, Crystal Blast should be changed into a stamina morph that functions like Crystal Fragments, dealing a burst of poison damage.
• Alternatively, Daedric Curse should receive a poison morph (think Peryite). Although not as engaing as frags, it would still fit the theme.

I'm not saying all of that has to happen, but something has to. At least begin to ask yourself "what is the point of a stamina Sorcerer?" and try to find an answer. Because currently, there isn't any.

On a similar note, stamina Dragonknight's spirit has shifted in PvE over the years. They were great when they excelled with their unique heavy attack rotation, but since heavy attack damage has been nerfed (Patch 4.0.5, Summerset), they haven't found their groove again. A focus on DoTs (which also, strangely, is contested by Necromancer who receive bonus damage for DoTs) doesn't work that well in the new light attack meta because there aren't enough skills to use in the time frame of one rotation without repeating some of them, i.e. using a spammable. This was obviously not an issue with the wind up time of heavy attacks.

Predictably, stamina DKs have thus been asking for a class spammable for quite some time (stam whip). While that would help, I want to draw your attention to the fact that Molent Armaments has never been adjusted with the nerf to heavy attack damage. Sorcerer's Bound Armaments, too, used to grant a bonus to heavy attack damage, but was changed to a light attack bonus with the mentioned heavy attack nerf in Summerset.
Therefore, either Molten Armaments should be changed to a light attack bonus as well, or the amount of the heavy attack bonus should be increased significantly to allow for the previous HA-rotation playstyle. Setting your weapons on fire is a cool, spirit-defining ability of the Dragonknight, and it should be made relevant again.

frostz417

tamrielwinner wrote: »

"Reduced the cast time of this ability and its morphs to 1 second from 1.1 seconds.
Reduced the damage dealt by 25% to make up for the removal of the post global noted earlier.
Increased the travel speed of the arrow to put it in line with other projectiles."
-post global and a .1s faster cast have zero impact on anything for pvp here. 25% damage nerf to this ability is a flat 25% nerf in pvp.
you're completely gutting this ability. if it's so enormously game-destroying, receiving the largest nerf i've ever seen in this or probably any other MMO, to a spec that appears to be pretty uncommon, it should have been nerfed before half a decade of gameplay and before the hordes all become snipers(they're not). stop.

Snipe is a cancer to PvP. Time to get some thumbs and not be carried by 40 meter d swings that desync.
Sucks to suck bud now you actually have to have a brain to PvP.

Galarthor

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Good direction but a lot of questionable moments:
- new "wings" duration/cost is inappropriate for skill effect. It should be either longer or cheaper to be viable outside of troll builds;
- race against the time is OP given that it has no restrictions while providing a lot of psijic passive boosts. It literally much more effective then class/weapon/armor analogues;
- pushing magblade to melee and in the meantime nerfing it's main saving grace ult most probably won't work;
- etc..

You can't have it up 100% of the time, else you will be unkillable by anything that is not a melee build.
You get a 50% damage reduction .... that's as much as resist capped builds get from their resistances, but unlike resistances your 50% cannot be reduced by something like penetration.

Lord_Sando

Xogath wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for current class balance and the class ability audit in this update. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?
• Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
• Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
• Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Stam sorc needs a few quality of life changes. Stam sorc currently lacks ANY identity to its kit. not only does it lack ANY debuff but relies to much on weapon abilities. Stam sorc could still work but just needs at least one other skill in its kit to have a stam morph. Since A stam curse doesn't seem to be any where in the new future,there is one skill that has an oblivious magicka morph and one that is rarely used. Give stam sorc a Stam version of Crystal Blast and also a physical damage morph of over load since the skill has lost it's utility and stam sorc does'nt have a class ultimate used for offense.

Here is my proposed change:

Crystal Blast changed to Cutting Wind
Conjure a furious gust of wind to bombard an enemy, dealing "x" physical Damage. Casting any other Stamina ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Cutting wind to be instant, deal 20% more damage, and cost 50% less Stamina.

Overload Change
Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become Gust of furious winds dealing "X" physical Damage, and heavy attacks blast enemies in a target area for "X" physical Damage.

likecats

With dark cloak being nerfed into a weaker forward momentum, why can it not have a 2s snare immunity built into it?
Small buff to compensate for the massive nerfs across the board for NB.

GrumpyDuckling

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for current class balance and the class ability audit in this update. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?
• Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
• Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
• Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

It's awesome to see that you are adding highest scaling stats to some skills:

Dragonknight - Inferno
Nightblade - Summon Shade
Sorcerer - Streak
Templar - Cleansing Ritual
Warden - Nature's Grasp

But why did you settle on Streak? A good chunk of the Dadedric Summoning skill line isn't even a consideration for stamina sorcerer. Why not make sorcerer pets scale with highest stats?

LoreToo

Chubarov_S wrote: »

LoreToo wrote: »

And god bless, do not listen to crying kinds on mNB. You buffed this class for pvp content, and keep it ok for pve content.

do you have any idea what you're talking about?

I do. Nightblades now will be way better.
Pvp: great stam ult update, get unique debuff that way stronger then 99% of community thought. Great up with minor vulnerability to force ppl play agressive. Minor berserk? Welcome to wairest 1 to get some. Bow-great buff with healing for magica users. Cripple - also great choice with more snares or dmg. Fear-no comments, its just perfect now with 6 targets.
Pve: finaly healers will learn how to cast combat preer. Or again-wayrest1. Surprise attack - bad change, cause its not minor/major debuff. And you always stay behind boss ass. If not-stop facetanking and l2p. So more dps for you if you are stamina.
Shade-welcome to pets world, pick up old builds from homestead with necropotens on you.
^this is buffs, that realy improve this class in all aspects of the game.