PTS Update 22 - Feedback Thread for Class Balance

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for current class balance and the class ability audit in this update. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?
• Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
• Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
• Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

casparian

Given that stam necromancer has enormous class identity with numerous stamina morphs, why do other classes (particularly stamplar and stamsorc) still have so few stamina morphs?

GeorgeBlack

StamDK should be a weapons class with passive and active skills that make it easy to play without a class spammable. It's role should be to truly stand it's ground along with templar.
So far stamDK is only a SnB/2h Bloodspawn 7th Fury build and nothing else, unfit for Cyrodiil.
Stamplar is very good to look at. Resently has become strong as well. It's Aedric Spear playstyle should be improved a little bit.Stand your ground templar.
Stamsorc needs to feel more than a battlemage. More magic. Less AoE annoyance.
Stamblade is the best concept of ESO. My only problem with the class is that it's abilities, active and passives are overloaded.
Stamden is strong yet I don't get the impression that this class has anything to do with nature or ice. It is also overloaded and without weak points.


Some skill lines that affect class identity in a negative way:
1) ESO is a game designed to be based around story, adventure and freedom to make unique characters. I think that it is a bad idea to say that X class should be better at tanking or DPS or Healing. I think that it would be better to have Undaunted, Fighters Guild and Psijic order to have tools to improve those functions. A good healer should be a mix of Class flavour and Guild potency etc etc. Maybe it's too late to make such huge changes but I think the devs should reflect on that.

2) Vampires should be more than passive stats and mist form. It should be a unique playstyle like werewolves.

3) Class ultimates should not be weaker than ultimates available to all classes. Dawnbreaker is a very serious issue for a number of years now. The weapon ultimates, weak as they are, are a bad idea imo. Some of those skills could be changed and used in a class tool kit since so many class ultimates are unused
Imagine a templar with a dawnbreaker (rebalanced)
Imagine a stamsorc with thundering Rend from DW.

Chubarov_S

We ask you:
Buff magNB because he has to fight close, but he does not have protective mechanisms for survival, or increase the damage for ranged combat.
Nerf stamNB because it has too high damage.

You did:
Nerf magNB 8% since took Berserk
Buff stamNB at 8%, because in Berserk they will remain in force Camouflage Hunter, which all and so used, but now they have access to Vulnerability

_Ahala_

Magden... why?

TrinityBreaker

Can stam dk get some actual identity and not have to rely on weapon skills? This "class" is so boring and generic it hurts.

Wing

taking away some of the overloaded nature of NB and forcing them to slot or build for the bonuses (like everyone else) was nice

the DK wings changes I get, negating projectile gameplay that some classes rely on more then others is kind of not fun, however Warden got to keep its flat eating of projectiles, so im not sure whats up here?

there was a heavy nerf on Defile more then anything else, NB lost it and I agree with that, Snipe lost it and I can get that too (its a DD spamable) and warden essentially lost its Major defile on corrupting pollen as well (its hard to use to the point of not even worth slotting) and the defile CP was nerfed

this is going to lead to even MORE healing in pvp and makes it harder to deal with, could ZOS explain the idea or reason behind this, I don't think it was "broken" and even with a massive investment their were STILL builds and players that could heal through it like it was nothing. this is going to make the heal spam and tanky players even harder to deal with.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

overall less crazy game altering changes like a think some of us were kinda looking for, the big ones were previously leaked or hinted at (whip changes, wings, and cleave) so I kind of expected other big changes, instead it seems those WERE the big changes, and everything else is just cleaned up a bit in regards to times and slight number changes.

kinda disappointing for the "BIG class ability change patch"

Mayrael

In general I like this patch a lot. What bothers me a bit is bringing in line Solar Flare and Snipe with other skills when it goes to projectile speed but Grim Focus left untouched - heal is not worth it, I really consider droping this skill completly of my bars, now its just a worse version of crystal frags but can''t be spammed, is slower, gives freaking loud sound cue, has a delay.

Edit:

...and most important. No fix for shade and Undo and morphs. This is gamebreaking.

Tryxus

Magden is screwed:

- We remain unoptimized for Magicka DPS
- Some very important nerfs PvP-wise like blockable Scorch and Corrupting Pollen's Major Defile not sticking
- Small improvements for Warden healers

I guess we're not a part of the vision ZOS has for the Warden class...

Tommy_The_Gun

Honestly... I was hoping for some Nag NB & tank NB buffs. Those 2 aspect of the class are the weakest.


Anyway, I am done giving feedback. It is pointless. I would want to give some to you ZOS but... will you listen this time ? Otherwise me & you are just wasting time.

troomar

Meh.

I had low expectations, and yet I'm disappointed.

Tasear

Negate Magic:
Fixed an issue where this ability would fail to continue suppressing Area of Effect abilities inside of the area.

This just sounds like real class identity!

...

Encase: Reduced the duration of the Immobilize from this ability and its morphs to 4 seconds from 4.5 seconds.
Shattering Prison (morph): Increased the damage of the explosion by approximately 82% to put in on par with other AoE instant hit abilities, such as Cleave or Impulse.

>..> there goes my dream for this go to tank/healer . This might actually be useful for dps....

...

Lighting Flood (morph): Increased the damage of this morph by 5%.

This does nothing.... just combine one morph for dps and other for tank/healer with utility.

....
Added a pet taunt functionality to this ability that is similar to the one built into Heavy Attacks. Your active pets will now prioritize targets with Daedric Prey on them.

I wish this meant would do something with clanfear on sorc tank finally.

bardx86

Gina,

Good fix on the Mages Wrath being dodge-able on the explosion. However this skill is still broken. The delay from the time of casting to the landing is causing the skill to miss if the target moves any any direction. It has to be cast several time in a row to get it to land which really interrupts a Srocs rotation. Its frustrating to say the least. Could we get some info if this is being looked at?

Thanks,
Elured

DynastyIXII

I don't understand the grim focus change. Why would I use this move now? I cast a move to be able to get a proc after 5 light/heavy attacks, both casts still costing Magicka, has a pretty useless heal in PvP since you have to be within 7m and heals 33% on hit which will be half in PvP...yeah useless skill.

TimeDazzler

Shalks being blockable is fine but the previous nerf to shalks major fracture or major breach from 10s to 5s should be reverted back to 10s.

Ragnaroek93

I highly dislike the changes to the Nb class (only speaking about stamblade, I don't play magblade enough to make a statement about them). I'm fine with an Incap nerf but all other changes make no sense.
You don't make Mark Target more appealing by nerfing Surprise Attack. Mark Target is extremely niche and a complete joke compared to Ele Drain (which has no initial cost and gives 600 recovery). I don't have any skill slots left and slotting a skill only to have fracture is simply not worth it, it's too niche and has no value outside of fracture most of the time - not worth slotting it.
How does a heal on Grim Focus work? It's super telegraphed, can easily be denied and even if it hits for how much will it heal? Dmg gets reduced by battle spirit and resis of the opponent and the heal gets reduced again by battle spirit and you need to be in meele range on top of that meanwhile I lose 10% recovery and 8% dmg, wouldn't call that a compensation. It's the first skill which I'll take away from my bar now since I already feel like needing one more skill slot.
Fear changes are bad as well, I don't have a snare now on my stamnb.
Minor Vuln on Ambush looks strong (even too strong) but gapclosers in general aren't good anymore because I can't block while using them which makes me easily burstable. Will be super strong for zerging people down tho, great...

What worries me the most is the change to the new Accelerate skill from the Psijic skill line. I'm playing with medium armor and with 2h and bow just for the major exp and the snare removal, slotting medium armor and a bow is a huge trade off and now everyone can get the same by just slotting Accelerate? You said that you're going to nerf Fury and Legion but you don't and you even give them a snare removal and major exp on demand (they even can use Rally now), that's so overkill. You literally just took away the identity and the whole reason to play with med armor and bow, it's pointless now. Just compare Accelerate with Shuffle now...

And in the meantime the other classes except magsorc get buffed...

Edit: After first testing I realise that Nightblade Shade could be a good class dot but it does sadly always do magicka dmg even tho the dmg scales with your highest stats. Would it be possible to turn the dmg into physical dmg if your stamina/weapon dmg is higher than magicka/spell dmg?

artal

Stamina sorc has basically 1 skill that cost stamina that he is actively using, hurricane. Nobody uses bound armaments for active part of it and conversion is kind of mag sorc skill. so 1 stam skill you can use
Dk has 2.
Templar has 3 + repentance
Warden 3 + netch
Nb has 5

So i do agree sorc is really bad on stam skill to use but stamplar is ok. I wish some other bufs rather than adding more stam skills to stamplar.

GaunterODim

Dawn’s Wrath
Eclipse:
This ability and its morphs will no longer proc off Direct Damage attacks such as Spiked Armor or Thews of the Harbinger’s damage return.

While youre at it, is it intented that it damages you if, for example, you swing dual wield(or other melee) light attacks through the air, but without hitting any target? That seems really wrong to me.

Tasear

Overlord still looks boring compared to third bar utility.

* Still can't use overlord with many sets in game.

MartiniDaniels

Good direction but a lot of questionable moments:
- new "wings" duration/cost is inappropriate for skill effect. It should be either longer or cheaper to be viable outside of troll builds;
- race against the time is OP given that it has no restrictions while providing a lot of psijic passive boosts. It literally much more effective then class/weapon/armor analogues;
- pushing magblade to melee and in the meantime nerfing it's main saving grace ult most probably won't work;
- etc..

iCaliban

Daedric prey nerf hurts pve pet sorc badly. They are only barely viable for high end raid groups currently. This nerf combined with the NB nerf will leave mag templars as the clear and overwhelming favorite for pve end game ranged dps.

Ratzkifal

I feel like there are a lot of boring, low impact passives in the original 4 classes that should be removed to make room for more interesting ones. These all have in common that the abilities they are buffing are exclusive to the class and thus do not create any further class identity or unique value. Removing these passives will also make balancing a little bit easier as ability durations can then be balanced independent of oneanother without needing to remember how the passives could potentially blow it out of proportion. Currently they all feel flat and not very meaningful.

Templar

• Enduring rays - Increases the duration of your Sun Fire, Eclipse, Solar Flare and Nova abilities by 2 seconds.

Dragonknight

• Searing Heat - Increases the damage of Fiery Breath, Searing Strike, and Dragonknight Standard abilities by 3% and the duration by 2 seconds.
• Eternal mountain - Increases the duration of Earthen Heart abilities by 20%.

Sorcerer

• Persistence - Increases the duration of Dark Magic abilities by 15%.

Nightblade

• Dark Veil - "Adjusted this passive to grant a flat 1 and 2 second duration increase to Shadow abilities".

There are some weapon abilities following the same boring and flat design.
Balanced Blade (2-handed), Controlled Fury (Dualwield), Ranger (Bow), Restoration Master (Restoration staff).

Anhedonie

I think this is the best patch we've got in 3 years or maybe even more.

Moloch1514

iCaliban wrote: »

Daedric prey nerf hurts pve pet sorc badly. They are only barely viable for high end raid groups currently. This nerf combined with the NB nerf will leave mag templars as the clear and overwhelming favorite for pve end game ranged dps.

Yes, and no dev comments to explain the reasoning. Pet Sorcs dont really care about reduced cost since we usually use HA rotations.

xMovingTarget

Stamblades put down, which is nice for class diversity in trials groups, buffs to DK. Looks good to me.

devildog13_93

Well, looks like nightblades will be rendered useless in mag, so much for completing all endgame content on my main😔

BaylorCorvette

As a StamSorc main for both PvE and PvP, I wish there was good StamSorc changes to really be testing. Aside from streak there is no change for StamSorc. I'll be sure to report back when there is StamSorc exclusive things to test.

SirMewser

I'm very happy with a lot of the class adjustments made overall.

Bonuses for the changes made to the psijic order skills, my healer thanks you greatly, mend spirit will probably have a place on my bar.

Skills look a lot less exploitable with the new behavior of dots.

Cast times and channels are certainly more fluid, which is a great change but needs testing because this might not sway people to using them more.

As a pet sorc, I love the addition of pets taunting to prey, it was a longing suggestion... A lot of the changes in general were requested suggestions, so this is probably my favorite PTS cycle so far.

As a pet sorc, the scamp, tormentor, and daedroth being tied down to 40% to match the bonus of the atronach is a bit questionable, surely consistent, but I feel like it's counter intuitive with the new max magicka set, I'll need to test this. I'll assume pet damage will be slightly higher while everything else increases by more, I'd rather have more pet damage than flat out everything increase (might open up opportunities to abuse max magic sets again).

Again though, very happy this pts!
Kudos

ochsinator

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Can stam dk get some actual identity and not have to rely on weapon skills? This "class" is so boring and generic it hurts.

Yes honestly one more stamina morph to spiked armor or inhale that would be cool.

BRODY

Stamsorc get stamstreak and use mana, are you serius?? All, what stamsorcs need: +1 stam skill, but not stamstreak wtf!!!! What are you doing from petmagsorc. You seen BG now, how you think, how many percent magsorcs in BG in 22 patch, will be 80% or 90%???

NB will die in BG, no berserk, not have major fracture, incap death, oh my god... Not constructive, but truth.

KatySpirit

Honestly the only complaint I have right now (just from the patch notes) is that you removed nightblade's burst heal. The other classes all have a burst heal, and you explicitly say that you don't want Dark Cloak to be a burst. Why? I thought that was the point of making that morph into a heal, so that nightblade could tank. It definitely increased the survivability of NB tanks, and it worries me that you cut the amount in heals each second in half, even if over all it heals for more. I am eager to test this change and see how it works in practice, and I ask that you please pay attention to feedback from those of us who play nightblade tanks. I think we all have the same goal here--making nightblade a tank that can compete with the other classes.