PTS Update 22 - Feedback Thread for Class Balance

Strider__Roshin

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

The silence on incap is now useless. No one in their right mind is going to store 120 Ult to silence someone just to have it CC broke when you're going to use a CC in conjunction with incap anyways. Just remove the silence and replace it with something else. It was a bad idea. You know it, we know it. Just scrap it and put something useful in its place.

The point of the patch is to nerf Nightblades into the ground. It's been long overdue. Your class is WAY over-tuned compared to any of the other classes. By contrast, the magicka warden and the new Necromancer class are practically incomplete in their design and need extensive work. This PTS was wasted on pointless NB adjustments that should have been made YEARS ago. Necromancer, the focus of the Elswyer expansion, has been largely IGNORED with occasional bug fixes and not much else.

What a toxic response.

Strider__Roshin

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

The silence on incap is now useless. No one in their right mind is going to store 120 Ult to silence someone just to have it CC broke when you're going to use a CC in conjunction with incap anyways. Just remove the silence and replace it with something else. It was a bad idea. You know it, we know it. Just scrap it and put something useful in its place.

Imo Forget the 120 ult cast with additional effects, who knows what might come up next, Maybe a 20k healing absorb or something similar silly?
Just leave incap as a 70 cost ult that is strong if you want to burst a single target down.

That's essentially what they did honestly. A Silence that's CC-breakable is not worth using.

Sanguinor2

Daus wrote: »

That's essentially what they did honestly. A Silence that's CC-breakable is not worth using.

Will depend on it giving cc immunity but I guess if you can break it it will give immunity. It might even act like eclipse where if you cast it on a stam char that doesnt feel like Breaking the silence it will give them even longer cc immunity than a stun would.

wheem_ESO

Daus wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

The silence on incap is now useless. No one in their right mind is going to store 120 Ult to silence someone just to have it CC broke when you're going to use a CC in conjunction with incap anyways. Just remove the silence and replace it with something else. It was a bad idea. You know it, we know it. Just scrap it and put something useful in its place.

Imo Forget the 120 ult cast with additional effects, who knows what might come up next, Maybe a 20k healing absorb or something similar silly?
Just leave incap as a 70 cost ult that is strong if you want to burst a single target down.

That's essentially what they did honestly. A Silence that's CC-breakable is not worth using.

It's worth using against Magicka builds; they either break free or die, so it's still extra pressure on their Stamina pool. Stam builds aren't affected nearly as much, though, which is part of the problem.

bardx86

Daus wrote: »

So an alternative idea for incapacitating strike.

Keep it how it is currently, but remove silence. Instead how about we make the ability cause additional Oblivion damage equivalent to 1% of your opponent's max health per 10 ultimate stored up to a maximum of 15% (150+ Ult). This will be a PvP only effect since it will be obviously too strong in PvE.

This will make it more bursty than it currently is, unique, and stronger against tanky opponents and damage shield spamming opponents.

Soo you want an already OP damage skill to have more unmitigated damage? Im not sure that's a good idea.

_Ahala_

Why would anyone save up more than 70 ult on incap now without running balorgs? The 120 ult stunless stun is just not worth it. In fact it’s actually detrimental to PvP burst combos to use the 120 ult incap over the 70 ult incap due to the stunless cc immunity... mag will break it like it’s a normal stun while being able to dodge the scourge should you decide to fire it after and stam will just shrug it off and thank you for the immunity... the end result of the Elseweyr changes is incap loses the defile on the 70 ult and any reason to cast the 120 ult in exchange for some passive sustain. This change is irrational.

Before anyone accuses me on nightblade bias look at my post history... I have a pretty blatant magden bias. This incap change is like what the did to Bird of Prey... They stripped away the active power and class defining uniqueness in exchange for some passive utility

CP5

While a lot has gone into the patch, though much less for non-nightblades than I thought, these are the things that stand out for me with the changes.

As my main is a dual bow dps the reduced cast time and removal of the gcd on snipe honestly doesn't feel different, the only thing that does is the travel time which is greatly appreciated. Also very much not a fan of focus aim having a longer range than light attacks and not being able to extend that range as it makes weaving in that distance awkward as your light attacks won't hit until you move closer, more of a pointless change I feel.

For my warden tank I continue to find the artic wind heal to be laughably weak, the upfront heal is so low I feel I have to spam the skill and then by doing that I waste the heal over time which contains half of the skills total healing. But when each tick of that heal over time is so low, even on a health stacked tank, i'll just slot vigor and help my group by running powerful assault. Having a competent heal over time is better than having a laughable burst heal.

Now the biggest problem I have with the change is how mend wounds was completely altered. On live mend wounds justifies its cost as a toggle skill and its magicka cost by being an incredibly strong heal skill. It's a niche skill for sure, but especially with the symbiosis morph I can effortlessly keep myself and my target, generally the main tank in trials, alive through most anything, making it amazing for vCR and vAS. The new skill is a joke. As a healer I am not going to focus on LA weaving to 'optimize my hps' since overhealing is already so easy, and unlike a dps I don't tunnel vision on maxing my numbers and instead make sure I am aware of the fight and what I need to do. Add on to that the LA heal is almost worth 2s of the old LA's heal over time and, I would prefer to keep the old version on that alone. But then we have the heavy attack, which was nerfed by 60% to account for the magicka restoration.

Here's the thing though, in a trial if I need magicka back I use a resto heavy attack. It gets me back a lot of magicka, takes a second, procs weapon enchants, and gives all my following heals, including things like blood alter and any other ambient heals I have going a 25% boost. That bonus so heavily outweighs the joke of a heal the new channel is, which is so weak I would never try to use it when there are people who actually need healing. And to top it all off, why would you make mend wounds a sustain skill, when meditate provides 30% more magicka per second, and stamina as well? If you're going to be doing buggerall healing you may as well be getting far more resources back. If this change must go through, just change the morph that provides armor, and keep symbiosis the actual heal morph, then see how many people waste their time channeling the free one, because it is not worth free and it is not worth you stopping everything else to get resources back. I, as someone who uses the live mend wounds, see no redeeming values in the pts version.

Zer0oo

Incap got his cc back but this cc only screws over mag chars?

Minno

Zer0oo wrote: »

Incap got his cc back but this cc only screws over mag chars?

depends what gets silenced and how much of that ruleset is ignored with classic zos bugs.

My guess, anything class related is going to be RIP (someone said the necro purge stops on cast.)

wheem_ESO

Zer0oo wrote: »

Incap got his cc back but this cc only screws over mag chars?

Basically, yes.

Unless a Stamina build needs to use an Ultimate within the next 3 seconds, they will probably be fine with just waiting out the duration and gaining CC immunity - perhaps without even noticing that they've been silenced at all. Magicka, on the other hand, will have to either break free or die (barring situations where you have dedicated healing/support from other people that can make up for your being unable to do anything for 3 seconds).

This is exactly why I was pushing back against the idea that some people were clamoring for last week - make the silence able to be broken free from...which is of course what ZOS did. So Magicka is severely affected and Stamina can largely ignore the silence. It either needs to go back to being a stun, or not CC at all.

master_vanargand

v5.0.4 Incap is trash with PvP.
NB will use DBoS with PvP.

So please change Incap.
Remove the silence of Incap.
Stun of Incap at 70 ult.

ProzTh3Almighty

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Incap got his cc back but this cc only screws over mag chars?

Basically, yes.

Unless a Stamina build needs to use an Ultimate within the next 3 seconds, they will probably be fine with just waiting out the duration and gaining CC immunity - perhaps without even noticing that they've been silenced at all. Magicka, on the other hand, will have to either break free or die (barring situations where you have dedicated healing/support from other people that can make up for your being unable to do anything for 3 seconds).

This is exactly why I was pushing back against the idea that some people were clamoring for last week - make the silence able to be broken free from...which is of course what ZOS did. So Magicka is severely affected and Stamina can largely ignore the silence. It either needs to go back to being a stun, or not CC at all.

Its no different than live, dont break either of them your dead either way. Stam classes use alot of magicka abilities an will need them to remove pressure. Shimmering shield, ice fortress, streak, dark deal, crit surge, extended ritual, fragmented shield, fossilize, cloak, shade, or they can roll dodge spam for 3 secs or block an drain their primary resource an be worse off for the next trade of burst. Not great but still valuable and stam will still most likely break free from it. I personally will try to not use it over 120ult so that i dont accidentaly silence someone and waste a cc immunity cd. Incap-fear-bow is still the best combo an landing it is hard with lag and dodge roll latency.

wheem_ESO

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Incap got his cc back but this cc only screws over mag chars?

Basically, yes.

Unless a Stamina build needs to use an Ultimate within the next 3 seconds, they will probably be fine with just waiting out the duration and gaining CC immunity - perhaps without even noticing that they've been silenced at all. Magicka, on the other hand, will have to either break free or die (barring situations where you have dedicated healing/support from other people that can make up for your being unable to do anything for 3 seconds).

This is exactly why I was pushing back against the idea that some people were clamoring for last week - make the silence able to be broken free from...which is of course what ZOS did. So Magicka is severely affected and Stamina can largely ignore the silence. It either needs to go back to being a stun, or not CC at all.

Its no different than live, dont break either of them your dead either way. Stam classes use alot of magicka abilities an will need them to remove pressure. Shimmering shield, ice fortress, streak, dark deal, crit surge, extended ritual, fragmented shield, fossilize, cloak, shade, or they can roll dodge spam for 3 secs or block an drain their primary resource an be worse off for the next trade of burst. Not great but still valuable and stam will still most likely break free from it. I personally will try to not use it over 120ult so that i dont accidentaly silence someone and waste a cc immunity cd. Incap-fear-bow is still the best combo an landing it is hard with lag and dodge roll latency.

I'm well aware that Stamina builds use some Magicka abilities, but oftentimes they're more than fine with having a 3 second window where they're unable to do so. In many cases, a Stamina Warden that can't recast Ice Fortress or Shimmering Shield for 3 seconds, or a Stam Sorc being unable to Streak or Dark Deal may not even notice that he/she has been silenced. They'll still be able to use all Stamina-based defenses and counter attacks, which obviously makes up the big majority of their toolkit; this is in stark contrast to Magicka builds, who literally can't do anything but break free, dodge roll, block, or light attack.

Stamina builds aren't needing to fire off Magicka and/or Ultimate abilities at least once every 3 seconds in order to be effective, and in many cases will be absolutely fine waiting out the silence duration and gaining "free" CC immunity. You seem to recognize this fact when saying that you'll prefer to use Incap with < 120 Ult in order to avoid giving them the immunity; if they're all going to use break free all the time anyway (which we both know that they won't), why would you need to manage Incap in that way? What difference would there be from live? (Other than Major Defile vs Reave, obviously)

Jabbs_Giggity

Just curious, if you slot an Ice Staff and use the passive to convert block cost from Stamina to Magicka - will Silence disable your ability to Block?

Minno

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Just curious, if you slot an Ice Staff and use the passive to convert block cost from Stamina to Magicka - will Silence disable your ability to Block?

should test that. My guess; no.

silence stops your ability to "cast" but that includes some class based abilities that dont cost mag. For a "skill audit"
it missed the mark on clarifying some of these systems.

CambionDaemon

On PS4 so cannot use the PTS.

Can you stop with the MagSorc pets buffs, pets are annoying and most people do not like them, can you please sort out the proper Sorcerer Magicka and Stamina.

On a separate note increase the cost of ALL ultimates to 300+, reduce all execute 'chances' to 15% maximum.

All of the problems that you have nowadays is because of the insistence of adding stamina morphs to everything, if you introduce soft caps on attributes and promote hybrids (what the Elder Scrolls franchise is about) the game would not have as bad power creep and you would be able to balance PvE and PvP easier.

Stop nerfing everything and actually start working on buffing and fixing the issues with the classes right now.

Yes games have to evolve, but this game is not play as you want anymore.