PTS Update 22 - Feedback Thread for Class Balance

Ashamray

Add to this that Eclipse can't be used on CC immune target and can be removed right after it has been applied. Can you at least make both abilities equal in power, @ZOS_Gilliam ?

Minno

Ashamray wrote: »

Add to this that Eclipse can't be used on CC immune target and can be removed right after it has been applied. Can you at least make both abilities equal in power, @ZOS_Gilliam ?

agreed. They might be the same dmg now, but the two abilities are not the same mechanic. But cinbri already raised this concern and the devs will not be touching templar this patch, based on what im reading.

ANother failed PTS audit for templar lol.

Deathlord92

Mitaka211 wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Rygonix wrote: »

I'm getting so very, very tired of you devs fawning over NBS and listening intently to their feedback while doing jack all for the other classes you've deliberately castrated this patch. Please take another look at Templars, seriously

They don’t do anything to Templar’s because they are already strong and if your struggling then it’s a l2p issue 👍

You are either a NB or a Magsorc right?

I only play nb and magblade deserves way more attention then templar does

Firstmep

Ashamray wrote: »

Add to this that Eclipse can't be used on CC immune target and can be removed right after it has been applied. Can you at least make both abilities equal in power, @ZOS_Gilliam ?

Id prefer eclipse to be cast on templar itsellf, as opposed to an enemy player.

The healing or the ICD can be changed if it proves to powerful.

hunter937

stamina templar jabs feel like the hit box is a little funky. I feel like if the opposing player is closer than the tip of the spear, the hits won’t land

Gnortranermara

The smartest thing to do with Eclipse is swap it with Sun Shield (which thematically fits Dawn's Wrath better than spears, right?) and change Eclipse to a spear-based thorns ability on the caster. In its current state Eclipse has wonky CC mechanics that nobody likes, so just reworking it entirely is the best option.

Rygonix

Deathlord92 wrote: »

They don’t do anything to Templar’s because they are already strong and if your struggling then it’s a l2p issue 👍

They were on par with other (mag) classes. With the number of unnecessarily heavy nerfs and broken mechanics (introduced) to Templar this patch alone you should be glad you're playing a class that is still mechanically stable.

Deathlord92 wrote: »

I only play nb and magblade deserves way more attention then templar does

Trust me, you don't want the kind of attention that Templars have been receiving lately.

Sanguinor2

Daus wrote: »

So an alternative idea for incapacitating strike.

Keep it how it is currently, but remove silence. Instead how about we make the ability cause additional Oblivion damage equivalent to 1% of your opponent's max health per 10 ultimate stored up to a maximum of 15% (150+ Ult). This will be a PvP only effect since it will be obviously too strong in PvE.

This will make it more bursty than it currently is, unique, and stronger against tanky opponents and damage shield spamming opponents.

I have another alternative idea for incap.

We very quickly forget about the silence and instead it retains its burst damage, 20% damage increase and maybe the reave. The second part of the alternative idea is that nightblades accept that incap is plenty strong for a 70 cost ultimate without applying 20% increased damage taken, major defile and a stun in the same cast.
Incap already is unique with a unique 20% increased damage taken debuff which cannot be cleansed. Incap is already plenty bursty. Incap can also still proc the major defile since it is disease damage but it is no longer guaranteed pressure on an ultimate that already adds guaranteed pressure in the form of an increase towards damage taken by 20%.

Miriel

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for current class balance and the class ability audit in this update. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?
• Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
• Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
• Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Hey
I run a very unique combat healer in pvp... and im abit worried about the changes i soposedly heard is comming for symbiosis, on the psijik skill line... while i am one of the few that use this skill and do so very succesfully, i think alot of AD players and even DC and EP players that have faced me can attest to that... but the build im running is very unique and inovative...

Now if the changes im hearing about symbiosis, is essentially changing me build, those things happen, i can understand that, BUT, the proposed change will create something no one will use, since its far to weak... so as far as i understand you will only remove a possible innovative build, and get a skill no one will use...

Here is the build im using at moment...

Auroras Nightrose set up is... Bosmer, Vampire, NB...

cleanse, energy orb, shadovy disguise, race against time, concealed weapon... life giver
vigor, cripling grasp, shadovy disguise, mark, symbiosis... veil of blades

Sets is
Troll King, Willows path, and Lich... wich gives me around 3.4-4.5 mana regen...

I have had very fun running this build, sure i dont have a attack, but i feel i can make a change and you heal very diffrently from all others, i really hope you do not remove a unique inovative build, that creates more possible options to the game set !

Please keep symbiosis as it is, on atleast one of the morphs ;P

Firstmep

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

So an alternative idea for incapacitating strike.

Keep it how it is currently, but remove silence. Instead how about we make the ability cause additional Oblivion damage equivalent to 1% of your opponent's max health per 10 ultimate stored up to a maximum of 15% (150+ Ult). This will be a PvP only effect since it will be obviously too strong in PvE.

This will make it more bursty than it currently is, unique, and stronger against tanky opponents and damage shield spamming opponents.

I have another alternative idea for incap.

We very quickly forget about the silence and instead it retains its burst damage, 20% damage increase and maybe the reave. The second part of the alternative idea is that nightblades accept that incap is plenty strong for a 70 cost ultimate without applying 20% increased damage taken, major defile and a stun in the same cast.
Incap already is unique with a unique 20% increased damage taken debuff which cannot be cleansed. Incap is already plenty bursty. Incap can also still proc the major defile since it is disease damage but it is no longer guaranteed pressure on an ultimate that already adds guaranteed pressure in the form of an increase towards damage taken by 20%.

Wish i could give you more than 1 aggree lol:D

_Ahala_

Daus wrote: »

So an alternative idea for incapacitating strike.

Keep it how it is currently, but remove silence. Instead how about we make the ability cause additional Oblivion damage equivalent to 1% of your opponent's max health per 10 ultimate stored up to a maximum of 15% (150+ Ult). This will be a PvP only effect since it will be obviously too strong in PvE.

This will make it more bursty than it currently is, unique, and stronger against tanky opponents and damage shield spamming opponents.

This would actually be an excellent and well balanced rework... zos should seriously take this suggestion into consideration

Kalixte

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

The second part of the alternative idea is that nightblades accept that incap is plenty strong for a 70 cost ultimate without applying 20% increased damage taken, major defile and a stun in the same cast.
Incap already is unique with a unique 20% increased damage taken debuff which cannot be cleansed. Incap is already plenty bursty. Incap can also still proc the major defile since it is disease damage but it is no longer guaranteed pressure on an ultimate that already adds guaranteed pressure in the form of an increase towards damage taken by 20%.

I have the same opinion about Incap balance. 20% damage taken and high base disease damage is way more than enough for a spammable ult. Maybe keep the stun as an evolution from base skill, but not more.

Savos_Saren

Minno wrote: »

AOE 6 target fear AND single target silence? Glad we traded wings shutting down ranged for nightblade shutting down mag based reactive defenses lol.

Careful, @Minno . Anything that upsets NBs or Sorcs is blasphemy. God forbid that ZOS buffs Templars, DKs, and MagDens up to the level of their golden boys.

angeleda

Can you fix the Warden's Nature's Embrace and make sure it doesn't keep locking players out of the game for "speedhacking"????

Just make it a HoT without the need to gapclose on allies or have it to be selfcast too... Or even better add class snare immunity and remove gapclosing capabilities to make warden competitive again (and weaken the heal of it to forw. momentum numbers)...

This is ridiculous... The ONE descent class healing skill for pvp is locked behind having to use a "stupid" bear or being unable to use it solo and if that's not enough, when we use it we have a high chance of getting our chars locked out because the "speedhack prevention" is triggered by it....

Unbelievable

_Ahala_

angeleda wrote: »

Can you fix the Warden's Nature's Embrace and make sure it doesn't keep locking players out of the game for "speedhacking"????

Just make it a HoT without the need to gapclose on allies or have it to be selfcast too... Or even better add class snare immunity and remove gapclosing capabilities to make warden competitive again (and weaken the heal of it to forw. momentum numbers)...

This is ridiculous... The ONE descent class healing skill for pvp is locked behind having to use a "stupid" bear or being unable to use it solo and if that's not enough, when we use it we have a high chance of getting our chars locked out because the "speedhack prevention" is triggered by it....

Unbelievable

Yeah if players are getting banned due to speedhackimg measures because of a class ability functioning as intended then we have a problem...

But as far as removing the ally gap closer? Please no. For group play the ally gap close and heal on nature’s embrace is a godsend for positioning in PvP. It’s an extraordinarily unique ability that makes magden fun to play... why you would want to nerf the healing numbers to forward momentum and remove the gap closer is beyond me

If you want a non gap close hot use mutagen, living trellis, or ask zos to rework the garbage bursting vines morph.

If you want class snare immunity and mobility, pressure zos to do something about bird of prey cause 6s major expedition as an ONLY active effect is just sad

For solo PvP use living trellis as it’s a much better self healing skill than nature’s embrace anyhow with the burst heal on recast effect

DisgracefulMind

Universe wrote: »

The PTS cycle is almost over and I have yet to see a meaningful balancing to the Warden.
There were a few adjustments, like Scorch being blockable, but it isn't enough.
Currently the Warden, especially the stamina Warden rules Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds.
It has top survivability, very high damage and huge healing.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler Please make the Warden more balanced in PVP.
If you won't do more, it will remain overperforming.

Yes, yes, let's nerf Magicka Warden more to put Stamina Warden in line. The reality of it is that it's stamina, overall, that's out of control. Can we not buff DB, can we make bleeds only ignore half-resistance or something, and, overall, drop the huge burst potential from stamina skills (mostly the ones available to EVERYONE) before we nerf class skills?

Cinbri

Leaving Purifying Light as it is contradicting previous words of how skills should perform and how comparable skill - new Grim Focus works:
1. When skill activated it should do something. Mark/Radiant Aura,Repentance/Drain don't do anything by itself so it cost zero. But there is problem for Backlash vs Purifying Light = there is no difference in morphed and unmorphed skill, as it will just deal small damage on cast. While Backlash vs Power of the Light don't have this problem as morph apply armor debuffs.
2. Assassin Will grant mitigation on cast and then morphs apply different effects, but once again - Purifying Light don't do anything from apply till damage release that would differentiate it from unmorphed skill. Once it was unpurgable mechanic it was ok(yet inconsistent) to have delayed effect that would work after 1st skill release and till 2nd skill release, etc., while used in rapid succession; but after it became purgeable - it lost its strength for being delayed effect because now it will be countered in pvp coz purge is common thing there.
3. Other skill with delayed effect was adjusted to new formula of front-loaded mechanic - Aspect of Terror - no longer apply delayed effects post-CC Break but increased it effectiveness of skill per se. So why PL was ignored?
Purifying Light healing pool should be updated and apply on cast of skill, not on expire.

Muskrap

Shalks being blockable kills magden in pvp

John_Falstaff

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

So an alternative idea for incapacitating strike.

Keep it how it is currently, but remove silence. Instead how about we make the ability cause additional Oblivion damage equivalent to 1% of your opponent's max health per 10 ultimate stored up to a maximum of 15% (150+ Ult). This will be a PvP only effect since it will be obviously too strong in PvE.

This will make it more bursty than it currently is, unique, and stronger against tanky opponents and damage shield spamming opponents.

I have another alternative idea for incap.

We very quickly forget about the silence and instead it retains its burst damage, 20% damage increase and maybe the reave. The second part of the alternative idea is that nightblades accept that incap is plenty strong for a 70 cost ultimate without applying 20% increased damage taken, major defile and a stun in the same cast.
Incap already is unique with a unique 20% increased damage taken debuff which cannot be cleansed. Incap is already plenty bursty. Incap can also still proc the major defile since it is disease damage but it is no longer guaranteed pressure on an ultimate that already adds guaranteed pressure in the form of an increase towards damage taken by 20%.

Let's not play words here. It's not 20% damage taken (which would imply it's not additive with other damage modifiers for own damage), it's 20% dealt by the player himself against the target, and since it's additive, it will result in much less overall damage gain.

BalticBlues

Muskrap wrote: »

Shalks being blockable kills magden in pvp

Moreover, this makes no sense in regards of balancing.
NB's "Surprise Attack" (from Stealth) or Sorc's Curse also are not blockable.
If devs take away the unblockable skill from one class, it will OP the others.

Savos_Saren

MagDen: Change Artic Blast back to an AOE damage/heal. As it stands- it's one of the most useless skills in the game.

MagDK: Bring the damage of Stone Giant up to the level of Spectral Bow or Crystal Frags when it procs (via the stun). Give DKs some sort of single DOT purge on one of their abilities.

Templar(stam/mag): Bring Piercing Javelin up to the level of Spectral Bow or Crystal Frags with some sort of proc in order to make it hit as hard under some sort of condition.

ZOS can you please quit focusing on MagSorcs and StamBlades in order to buff some of these classes to their level?

Minno

BalticBlues wrote: »

Muskrap wrote: »

Shalks being blockable kills magden in pvp

Moreover, this makes no sense in regards of balancing.
NB's "Surprise Attack" or Sorc's Curse also are not blockable.
If devs take away the unblockable skill from one class, it will OP the others.

You can block surprise attack lol.

Sanguinor2

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Let's not play words here. It's not 20% damage taken (which would imply it's not additive with other damage modifiers for own damage), it's 20% dealt by the player himself against the target, and since it's additive, it will result in much less overall damage gain.

Doesnt change that incap is a very potent 70 cost burst ultimate that enables 6 seconds of increased damage as pressure and will still remain strong even if it doesnt guarantee defile and a stun in addition to that.

BalticBlues

Minno wrote: »

You can block surprise attack lol.

Not if done properly, and that is from Stealth.
People cannot block an attack if they do not even know about the enemy... lol

I play all classes - do you really want to tell me that Wardens (as the currently weakest DPS class) should lose their Shalk potential because Shalks are more of a threat than SurpriseAttacks or Curses?

Sometimes it seems that NBs want to eat and keep the cake at the same time...
If Warden's Shalk become blockable, NB's should not be able to SupriseAttack from Stealth anymore.
Nonsense? Exactly. The same as making Shalks or Curses blockable. These things are required for a reason.

Gnortranermara

Cinbri wrote: »

Purifying Light healing pool should be updated and apply on cast of skill, not on expire.

That would be a massive improvement. Best idea I've heard for this skill.

TheBonesXXX

This thread does NOT collect data. I see no data, just opinions with no math or science. Just "I had this class so I'm glad it got nerfed", seriously ZOS...

Collect data from people who do not have questionable motives.

BalticBlues

Cinbri wrote: »

Purifying Light healing pool should be updated and apply on cast of skill, not on expire.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

That would be a massive improvement. Best idea I've heard for this skill.

+1
because then people would be healed already during their attack being on this spot

Strider__Roshin

The silence on incap is now useless. No one in their right mind is going to store 120 Ult to silence someone just to have it CC broke when you're going to use a CC in conjunction with incap anyways. Just remove the silence and replace it with something else. It was a bad idea. You know it, we know it. Just scrap it and put something useful in its place.

Vercingetorix

Daus wrote: »

The silence on incap is now useless. No one in their right mind is going to store 120 Ult to silence someone just to have it CC broke when you're going to use a CC in conjunction with incap anyways. Just remove the silence and replace it with something else. It was a bad idea. You know it, we know it. Just scrap it and put something useful in its place.

The point of the patch is to nerf Nightblades into the ground. It's been long overdue. Your class is WAY over-tuned compared to any of the other classes. By contrast, the magicka warden and the new Necromancer class are practically incomplete in their design and need extensive work. This PTS was wasted on pointless NB adjustments that should have been made YEARS ago. Necromancer, the focus of the Elswyer expansion, has been largely IGNORED with occasional bug fixes and not much else.

Sanguinor2

Daus wrote: »

The silence on incap is now useless. No one in their right mind is going to store 120 Ult to silence someone just to have it CC broke when you're going to use a CC in conjunction with incap anyways. Just remove the silence and replace it with something else. It was a bad idea. You know it, we know it. Just scrap it and put something useful in its place.

Imo Forget the 120 ult cast with additional effects, who knows what might come up next, Maybe a 20k healing absorb or something similar silly?
Just leave incap as a 70 cost ult that is strong if you want to burst a single target down.