PTS Update 22 - Feedback Thread for Class Balance

emelee_ESO

Not sure if this is the right feedback post as it is a guild ability not class, but here goes:

I played with mend wounds a little, and like the change, but I ran into an immediate problem (imo anyways), and submitted feedback. Pets, they get in the way.

I was running my sorc's healer set up near a world boss. When someone came up to attack it I found my twilight matriarch taking the heals I was lobbing at the person who was getting rather low on health. So I had to pop bird for a big heal to save them.

Then I got on my Warden and pulled my bear out. A friend tried to use mend wounds on me while I was standing next to my bear and Grumpy VonFloofy McDangercuddles was stealing the heals meant for me.

I can see this being problematic pretty quick.

Mitaka211

I feel like the changes made to the templar class will not solve the core problems it has in PVP:
1. Lets talk about jabs, like players have not given a ton of feedback already. It's not a reliable skill. Half of your hits won't hit and the last hit(which is the most important) will almost always miss . A good solution would be to apply the slow on the first hit. That way it will solve the problem with accuracy. I don't think it will be too much since there are tons of weapon abilities that can apply a slow at a click of a button.
2. Toppling charge needs to be a stamina ability. It's really shocking to me that a stamina using templar won't get to use his class charge. Right now we fall on weapon abilities for gab closers.
3. Complete lack of healing for a stamina user. For a class that is presented as a holy warrior that focuses on healing , we don't benefit at all from our healing tree. Massively you will see stamplars running vigor and rally to stay alive (i even found that having the troll king set is a must if you don't want to die in 2 sec and that is with capped def stats)
4. We need a rework of passives so we benefit more from them. When all of our class abilities are so expendable that we can pretty much not use them , we start to use skills from guilds and weapons. Meaning we benefit less and less form class passives.
5. No way to mitigate damage. Stamplars without troll king set is begging to die in 2 sec no matter what resists they have. And after the devs genius conclusion that some magsorc abilities need a buff of dmg, welcome to the pain train. At the same time the ruined the dmg mitigation we get from Empowering Sweep, excuse me they plan on removing it. That has to be the dumbest thing they plan on doing to the class, not to mention it shows how little understanding they have for the stamina side of classes.
6. We have some of the worst cc of all classes.
7. Our ults are mediocre at best and easily trumped by any other ult, weapon, guild ect.
They decided to make necro the ultimate stamplar. But guess what not all of us have the time to re level a character, not to mention re unlock everything we have achieved on our mains. I am sorry but any player who has a competitive nature , will start to grow more and more frustrated with this game. Stamplars are complete garbage tbh and if you want to do decent you start to see that your choices become extremely limited, even gear wise.

It's really frustrating to play a class that completely lacks identity. Templars are promoted as holy warriors not priests. If the templar was planned as a priest than why did you not call him a priest . The general feeling is that you guys pamper more and more to the players who prefer magika.

One last note. The nerf to dmg on dizzy swing will pretty much remove one more choice for stamina users. Like sorcs can burn down a tank in a sec and their dmg is considered low, however a swing that takes forever to hit and is the only way for a 2h stamplar to achieve a big burst combo, should be nerfed. I just don't get it. Not like it's been a problem since yesterday. The patch notes were a direct slap to the face to the class reps , who bothered to collect a ton of feedback and most importantly the players who bother to give it.

Its not like stamplars have been asking for anything insane. We want to feel like we are playing a templar and not mister generic warrior that uses abilities all classes have access to.

osakano

Revert the extra damage on noxious breath and give stam dk a poison whip atleast then they can use it instead of it just taking up a slot on the bar

osakano

also make seethign fury a passive skill add it to like warmth or something

hunter937

Please do not leave empowering sweep as is in the PTS. Trading MAJOR PROTECTION for empower is such a huge nerf to a fantastic skill that allowed one to open on their opponent with reduced damage taken and unleash their burst combo to down their enemy. Please bring back major protection or give SOMETHING better than empower.

Jabbs_Giggity

hunter937 wrote: »

Please do not leave empowering sweep as is in the PTS. Trading MAJOR PROTECTION for empower is such a huge nerf to a fantastic skill that allowed one to open on their opponent with reduced damage taken and unleash their burst combo to down their enemy. Please bring back major protection or give SOMETHING better than empower.

Maybe ZOS should just revert empower to increase skill instead of LA. At least the empower buff would have a purpose for a Class that has nothing but channels and cannot LA weave...

twing1_

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?

The damage mitigation on Grim Focus directly contradicts NB class identity. NB are supposed to be the rogue/assassin class, relying on a heavy offense and limited by a weak defense. They are supposed to be opportunistic and carefully choose windows of opportunity to unleash strong burst on opponents and then fall back into the shadows to set up their next burst of offense. According to the character creation screen, nightblades are described as "relying variously on stealth, blades, and speed" and "trusting to their luck and cunning to survive".

This change completely goes against that. It encourages NB to stay in the fight and take damage vs. periodically going on the defensive to set up their next big move. NB don't even have to waste a single GCD for their resistances either, because their source of major ward/resolve comes passively with their spammable attack (surprise attack/concealed weapon), free of charge. This already encourages NB to continually pressure enemies without going on the defensive. Now damage mitigation stacks on light attacks will further incentive this playstyle. NB skills are synergizing too well with the brawler playstyle, and now, with the addition of damage mitigation on grim focus, NB also receive more sources of mitigation in their toolkit than any other class:
-major ward/resolve from shadow barrier
-minor ward/resolve from mirage
-minor protection from dark cloak
-major protection from consuming darkness
-major evasion from blur
-minor maim from summon shade
-15% damage reduction from grim focus

Where did the NB assassin identity go? Is this an abandoned idea? Are NB no longer intended to "rely variously on stealth and speed" to survive, as their class description suggests?

Other classes already excel at the brawler playstyle. I would really prefer it if NB weren't homogenized into this role, and instead changes were made to promote the rogue/assassin playstyle that the NB identity is so dependent on.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Workable alternatives to the damage reduction stacks on Grim Focus:
1. Major brutality/sorcery. I understand you do not want anything on Grim Focus that will further improve NB damage levels, but putting brutality/sorcery on Grim Focus (and removing it from drain power) will not increase the overall power of the class because it is a buff they already have access to.
2. Stacks of 2% movement speed, for a total of 10%. If you insist on going with the defensive route, please consider movement speed as an alternative to damage mitigation. This would at least stay more true to the class identity.

Gnortranermara

Great change on Restoring Aura. It's finally worth using and I have a perfect spot on my bar for it.

GrumpyDuckling

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?

Please talk to Gilliam. He's putting damage mitigation in the Assassin tree. This is Wood Elf sneak and Argonian poison absurdity all over again.

Just move Major Brutality/Sorcery to Grim Focus and consider something more fun/useful for Drain Power.

Czekoludek

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?

Please talk to Gilliam. He's putting damage mitigation in the Assassin tree. This is Wood Elf sneak and Argonian poison absurdity all over again.

Just move Major Brutality/Sorcery to Grim Focus and consider something more fun/useful for Drain Power.

I don't think @ZOS_Gilliam will do something about it, looks like he completely failed on making Nb fun and not overpowered. It's kinda sad cuz we thought he can nerf Nb without making them bland and on stream grim focus mitigation looks like his idea. So much wasted opportunity, devs clearly don't know how they should change Nb class. Elsweyr in terms of intresting class balance is a failure, not only to NB

John_Falstaff

Fantastic.

ZOS: "We understand that now Grim Focus is paying resources for participating in a minigame. We thought it over, and decided that now it's paying resources for participating in two minigames."

I mean, there was a time when I believed that combat team does any kind of analysis, it tests, calculates, does some internal parses... But that time is long gone; over time, realization comes that they just juggle numbers, licking a finger, sticking it up in the air and then slapping on a change to follow their hunch, or just exerting themselves trying to come up with something remotely creative. Damage mitigation in assassination skill line, wonderful. DK changes in this patch is another illustration.

I mean, in the light of my growing Conan: Exiles addiction - it's okay, ZOS is doing a good job making me less attracted to ESO. There has to be a job they'd be good at, after all.

crazywolfpusher

In my opinion all mitigation damage buff should be attached to abilities that rely on melee combat.
And after the changes they are doing to Grim Focus, the new mitigation buff is not a bad idea but i think should be a little bit stronger, maybe 20%.

However as some already said, the class shouldnt be about mitigation damage. Make no sense and doesnt feel like match the concept of the class. I would like to see backstabing mechanics.

I dont play Nightblades btw lol

Blink

Patch 5.0.2 still no stamina whip FeelsReallyBadMan

Ragnaroek93

After testing new Grim Focus I have to admit that I start liking it. It's pretty powerful and helps med and light armor a lot, I'm a bit worried about how it will affect heavy armor Nb tho, but tank builds are an issue for itself (overtuned sets, overtuned sword and board skill line, blockhealing). Speaking about PvP btw.

Chubarov_S

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Do you have any other general feedback?

Why not just give Strife fixed healing? And give Grim Focus Major Brutality and Major Sorcery?

Ryanoxx

I made a thread discussion ideas I have for Dk changes. Molten whip has too much burst and Dks have too much healing but lack other things. I know just using the changes I suggest doesn't work. We need adjustments for every class. I know Dk better than the other Classes (exept Sorc) though why I did it for Dk. Since it is relevant for Class Balance I want to post the link to it here. Maybe Zenimax can also have a look at it and think about them @ZOS_GinaBruno . https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/471581/dragonknight-changes-my-suggestions#latest

Lucky28

TeIvanni wrote: »

Magicka Nightblade is in a pretty bad spot now.

On live this patch the three Classes: Magicka Nightblade, Magicka Sorcerer, and Magicka Templar were all pretty much performing at the same level.

On PTS: Magicka Nightblade has had their Minor Berserk removed.
Magicka Sorcerer has had their Lightning Flood AoE buffed.
Magicka Templar has had their Shards AoE buffed.

Please buff Nightblade's path of darkness again.
Originally you guys nerfed it because "It was over performing"
It currently does less damage than either Lightning Flood or Blazing Shards, and doesn't offer a synergy.

In their current state, no one is going to run a magicka nightblade.
Which is such a shame after the beautiful balance we had found in the Wrathstone DLC for trial magicka dps.

Refreshing path really needs it's damage back. right now there really is no reason to use this skill over Mutagen/Rapid Regen, the damage on Refreshing path is what made the skill unique, without the damage it's just a crappy version of rapid regen and rapid regen is not even that good of a heal!!!.

Zer0oo

some overall Feedback:

Wall of TEXT

Dks got some really strong buffs:

• The new Wings are really strong since they reduce all inc damage by 50% if you compare this to the strongest def buff major protection 30%. Even more it offers no counter play. I have nothing against having some really strong skills but it offers no counter play. Please give this skill a minimum range: something like 0 -14m 0% reduction ;~15-30m till it affects the damage by 50% and all skills from 30+m get reduced by 90%
• I also think the new dragon blood is too strong for a class with so many healing passives and other healing skills(embers, whip, ...). Turn it in a very strong hot over 2-3 sec That way spamming it will not be so powerful.
• Cauterize should also give major savagery

Nb:
In general i do NOT like how this class evolves especial the mag part. It used to be the squishy, hard hitting and mobil class but now? Sustain and healing used to come from damaging. (Snap tank, healing while damage dealing,...)

• fix shade
• grim focus should not give protection since it goes against the class design und even more important it will buff heavy armor tanky nb in duel setups. A better solution would be to give each stack 3% movement speed and 1% ulti reduction.
• healing path should do damage again ~30% less than the other morph
• funnel hp should do more damage ~10% less than swallow soul - hardcore players will always go for the more damage one but support orientated players will take the 10% less one to help the healer
• double take should remove all snares on you and give you major exp if you deal damage this can only happen ever 7 sec
• give mark a debuff on the target that gives all allies who hit the target minor berserker
• Malevolent Offering needs some rework

Templer:
Not much changed. The patch seemed to be focused on changing only dk and nb from the old classes.

• Piercing Javelin(4000 )is underwhelming and expensive compared to shatter shot(2900stam) or Petrify(2700mag)
• Empowering Sweep do not really feel empowering. Give it some better effect than empower something like an off-balance that ignores cooldowns on PVE bosses.
• not sure what i should think about sun shield

Sorc:
Not much changed. The patch seemed to be focused on changing only dk and nb from the old classes. This class really needs some rework on some abilities to make them better fit in and more usable.

• rune cage(4000mag) needs a 30% mag cost reduction to bring it on line with petrify (2.7k mag) and it should do damage to the target the moment you activate the skill+some other effect to bring it on line with all the other CCs. The delay on the actual should stay as it offers counter play
• cblast needs major rework. NO one likes cast time skills Make it a proc like cfrag but with aoe damage instead and no cc.
• both procs should scale on the highest stat and proc on any skill but still cost mag
• i personally would love if lightning flood would change to a aoe dot that stacks on the target like the overcharger in AA and SO
• Pets need some really big rework
• twillight should offer as base a heal and one morph offers more damage after healing and the other heals 2 targets. twillight should heal for more or scale with both spell and mag
• Volatile Familiar should give a better indicator when it CCs
• Clannfear this pet now heals caster and one more target and you have a 40% chance to gain 1 ulti per ulti gain
• Streak should better on uneven ground
• sustain is also really bad
• Shattering Prison should work like a real aoe damage skill and deal damage independent of root immunity and on initial hit and reduce the cost by 10% to make it more inline with talons
• overload does not really feel like a ulti (it just feels meh) and still miss the utility bar since sorcs have really a lot of bar space problems

Warden:
Not much changed. The patch seemed to be focused on changing only dk and nb from the old classes.

• swarm dot is still really slow
• growing swarm should infect 6 other target on initial hit
• the bear feels really underwhelming. Give the pet a special ulti that is aoe if you reach 150 ulti. Like a big stamp like in one of the dungeons.
• Arctic Blast is underwhelming and healing only works if you have a target. Change the skill to do the original ice damage+heal and cc the closest enemy (same "shoot" mechanic like it has now)

Rework all PET:
all pets should be untargetable in pvp since it really does not work otherwise. Pets have a extrem limited commando interface and in really group fights they are 90% of all time dead.
And in other cases they block all damage because of the target system. 1 person vs a player with 3 pets makes him almost unhitable

CC breaking:
CC breaking should stop the animation of the CC and ignore cooldowns and reset your cooldown if you got CCed while doing a CC action. E.G you should be able to CC break really fast and being able to dodge roll right after.
CC breaking should also stop knockbacks, knockups...

Jowrik

I am a Bow-only PVE player by heart. Nightblade mainly but other classes too. Currently discussing nightblade seeing as they need most of the discussion for me

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?
Grim Focus: To say the least, I am happy to see the Bow proc wasn't removed. Gave the class that extra feel-good ability for bowbuilds. As it stands currently, it no longer seems worth using it at all. I can place 2 snipes for that instead and it will give me higher DPS. Which is a shame, since the Bow-proc really stood out and gave Nightblades the uniqueness requires. It is simply put more tedious to use it, only to have less damage output overall. It overcomplicates to rotation now to no use.
I can see this working way better for Magicka nightblades, tanks and healer. Alas, the Bow-proc doesn't seem to be interesting anymore as of right now.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
Since i'm having about 200 ms to the PTS, weaving in general is already a difficult task. Weaving in itself seems kind of the same. Snipe didn't feel changed at all (same delay, same break-up when weaving). Only the damage is now way less. It feels kind of weak right now and doesn't feel worth using, especially seeing the channel time. The 1s channel time still feels VERY off to use in a rotation and it honestly feels like i'm semi-breaking the game when I weave accordingly.

My personal suggestions:
- OR increase snipe's damage by 5% again (still a 20% nerf). Although i'd prefer suggestions below;
- OR decrease it's channel time more (0.6sec, like Rapid Strikes?) and change the damage accordingly. Regardless, reducing it's channel time by more will make the skill easier to fit into a proper rotation (see Rapid Strikes);
- OR, and this is one i firmly believe in, make it so Snipe gets slotted for Ultimate and take Rapid Fire as the spammable ability. I know this has been suggested atleast a couple of times on here. The Snipe-ultimate should see a cost increase to 200-250. (maybe see it's damage reduced big time and have a cost of 75).
-
You can make this work by reducing the amount of hits Rapid Fire does to 5 and reducing the damage accordingly, on par with other spammable abilities (for instance, every hit amounts to a same amount of damage Rapid Strikes would give, keeping in mind the Hawk Eye passive + Long Shots passive). Actually pretty much the same way Rapid Strikes works for Dual Wield but at range for bow. Morph-wise you could apply the same thing as Rapid Strikes (Extra healing or extra damage on final hit) or add some stacking penetration, short minor force duration, ... Make it so it can be dodgerolled (PVP counter) or blocked. Forget Minor Fracture/Minor Defile (or leave them on ult).

I know this isn't really only about weaving so I will post this in the Combat Balance & Abilities-discussion too. However, this skill makes weaving a real pain and the 0.1s reduce in channel time didn't change much.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
As a bow PVE nightblade I feel severely gimped right now.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
I like that Grim Focus has changed. It was too strong after all. However, there currently hasn't been any proper solution as of right now.

The only skill that has been in dire need of a rework/change is Snipe. See my points above.

Do you have any other general feedback?
I have the feeling that the Nightblade Passive Pressure Points isn't working properly (Crit % doesn't seem increase per ability slotted).

Gnortranermara

Jowrik wrote: »

OR, and this is one i firmly believe in, make it so Snipe gets slotted for Ultimate and take Rapid Fire as the spammable ability.

That's an excellent idea. Making Snipe an ulti would completely eliminate the snipe-spamming health desync glitch in PvP. They could jack the damage up, make it cheap, and instant cast. (And to make up for the fact that you can't spam it anymore, extend the range of all bow abilities while slotted.) The two Rapid Fire morphs would offer bow users a choice between a channeled spammable or a fire-and-forget DOT. Swapping those two skills would be one of the best changes pretty much ever for bow.

cpuScientist

Can the blocking of Shalk AOE be undone. The class really hurts in 1v1 and this just makes them worst there and offers nothing in class that can damage a blocking tank. Cannot stun to drop block and no burst that goes through it. Every other class has at least one of these mechanics for dealing with blocking targets. There is counter play already against shall. Move left or right. It misses more than anything.

wheem_ESO

cpuScientist wrote: »

Can the blocking of Shalk AOE be undone. The class really hurts in 1v1 and this just makes them worst there and offers nothing in class that can damage a blocking tank. Cannot stun to drop block and no burst that goes through it. Every other class has at least one of these mechanics for dealing with blocking targets. There is counter play already against shall. Move left or right. It misses more than anything.

I see why they made the Shalks blockable - when multiple people are stacking them together they can be really overpowered. But when solo, Shalks are one of the worst offensive abilities in the game; if someone actually knows how to fight you, good luck getting them to land. Having the Shalks be blockable just makes that situation worse - even if you do manage to get them to land, a quick block will make the damage pretty negligible.

That's why I've hated the Shalks from pretty much Day-1 of Morrowind: They're far too often either overpowered, or borderline useless. I was hoping Magicka Necromancer would be a valid replacement for my Magicka Warden, but it's really looking more like a repeat of many of the same issues...Block the delayed, highly telegraphed burst if you can't avoid it via other means, and everything'll be hunky dory.

Minno

After seeing the templar changes and indirect changes, here's my updated feedback based on Gina's requested questions.

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?:
- No, but the lack of changes modernizing some of the outdated templar skills are against the spirit of the class. Or to put it better, the class feels like a lack of an identity and most players feel like the devs are pushing them towards heavy armor healbot roles where they hold block and cast BOL till they die. Not much group debuff/buff, clunky burst/pressure and no AOE cc mechanic lends to templars feeling they cannot operate any role they want without severe downsides compared to other classes.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
- Yes and No. Cast time changes to GCD result in weird clunky loss in speed. For example, punchering sweeps is faster if I dont light attack afterwards and is slightly slower when I do. Same for things like Dark Flare, wreckling blow, etc.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
- weaker. While many audits resulted in finally modernizing the templar kit (toppling being faster, etc) other classes received audits that surpass the balance feedback we gave prior to the new chapter. This results in a weaker class once you compare the buffs DK, Sorcs, and nightblades received as well as the kit from the necromancer.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
- Yes and no. Some abilities are still underperforming or are clunky/outdated. For example practice incantation only recevie minor adjustment despite ultimate not having been touched since 2015 with rememberance being the superior morph. But you adjusted restoring aura while also looking into the speed/cc function of toppling. 50/50

Do you have any other general feedback?
- Templar still has no clear identity and stamplar has taken heavy nerfs while giving their identity away to stamDK.

Previous Feedback (updates in bold/strikethrough):

Templar
Aedric Spear

Burning Light: great change, needs extensive cyro testing on live however for efficiency tests. Jabs snare is still dodge able though.

Focused Charge: minimum range doesn't match other gap closers, at least ones that grant a secondary effect like lotus fan.fixed
Explosive Charge (morph): no one is using this spell for the AOE dmg. It doesnt break targets out of stealth, requires a target, is too slow, and makes your vulnerable. Niche application as a bomber build but Templar has nothing that helps to escape those situations like a nightblade can.
Toppling Charge (morph): has potential to be a great change. but has same downsides as explosive charge; most serious PVP players deslot this ability since it opens you up to being cc'd and burst. If DMG buff is to be a buff for Templar, then consistency of use must be created.faster and now has no minimum range. fixed

Piercing Javelin: dmg boost buff was weird at range, because templars lack the absolute ranged strength of sorcs to fully use this DMG boost to it's full potential. Skill audit would have shown that one of the magplar pain points is too many cc options that have too many niche applications and all contradict each other. Why run javelin when I can heal+unreflected+unblocked dMG with total dark? But I can't use total dark on cc immune targets and toppling charge becomes generic gap closer when I cast total dark first.

Puncturing Strikes: best change this patch but there's a bug as cinbri noted regarding it's efficiency on pts.

Radial Sweep: great change for range. Still misses targets due to how the hitbox is looking for those targets.
Empowering Sweep (morph): this is hard to swallow because it violates the core reasoning of this patch while increasing the main pain point of stamplar; low survivability after post-nerf of major mending under wrobel. its an AOE 2s pulse that has empower; solar barrage shares this same exact mechanic and thus is instantly redundant. It may be an ultimate, and some pve stamplars love it, but in PvP it takes away from survival for that class.

Spear Shards: good buffs for pve templar but stamplar can't use it. So it's one sided change.

Sun Shield:
.great change for seeing skills and values they bring, because it was tricking both players and devs into thinking this is a great defensive skill. But if blazing was above other options, you'd see it on every templar build and in competitive PvP applications. It doesn't defend well and it doesnt damage well; because of that it will always be replaced by something more damaging or defensive. Radiant ward is perfect for PVE tanks however but the cost increase is a nerf to them sadly. Is 9% per hit good enough for competitive pve? This ability will still find extremely niche use in PvP and it doesn't solve pve tank pain points. dmg off radiant ward is very promising, but it's 10k crits on PVE mobs which means it will only be 2k dmg after all mitigation. blazing shield is still useless

Dawn’s Wrath
Eclipse: great mechanic balance for DKs now. Tooltip Great for knowledge too in understanding how it works,but has core issue of its design rests on this cooldown. damage was originally by wrobel increased to account for this 0.75s cooldown. and to boot, healing was never increase to account for this as well. core ability still suffers in that you are giving targets cc immunity without stopping their actions and the niche applications. Other cc abilities are rendered useless if trying to make most of this spell. Hard to use with new toppling charge since you'll waste two slots for a cc immunity granting spell.

Power of the Light: pve change, while decent, only buffs pve templar healers who did not need buffs on core DPS centered abilities. Dmg loss impacts PVE stamplar and PVP stamplar looking to stretch their dmg to counter the fact their have no defense.

Solar Flare: great change on both speed and cast times. but is 37% dmg reduction worth 0.1 seconds and slightly faster shot? Snipe, receiving similar change, has only a 27% reduction on damage. In comparison, Jabs while received evasion nerfs but got buffs to compensate as well; dark flare should be buffed now that wings is 50% dmg reduction for similar reasons. With reflective light/vamp bane losing ability to be used as a spamable for both instant cast+dot for greater Dmg, dark flare feels more like a redundant ability that functions similarly to vamp bane but only useful on gank builds/zerglings and will never see application in pve. Solar barrage is great change however to help fix it mechanically.

Sun Fire: great change for server calcs, but if dark flare isnt buffed, magplar loses partially efficiency in one aspect of it's (community applied) core identity of "i can do AOE, Melee and range all in one package". Plus ability has issues granting crit buff due to requiring hits instead of cast so it's not functioning according to similar buff spells and thus missed it's chance by the team on their audits.

Restoring Light
Breath of Life: great adjustment for pvp balance. Shame other similar heals in the game don't follow this requirement of positioning and LOS walls (Sorc pet heal for example).

Cleansing Ritual: great change but weird issue with Ritual of retribution. dmg of this spell buffed with highest stat either weapon/stam but is still magic damage so CP scaling will be annoying. Extended ritual is fine as is, though stamplars aren't sitting around for this heal in highly mobile combat.

Practiced Incantation: heal percentage fix didn't really make morph attractive versus rememberance. For a defensive ult, it hasn't been updated according for the highly mobile game design intent, and both morphs haven't really been touched since 2015-2016. Another missed chance to audit to update Templar proactive defense pain point.

Restoring Aura: great change in adding zero cost while increasing duration to match ele drain. Will open up weapon optiosn slightly though major breach is too important to give up and the light attacks off destro staff punish templars looking to experiment with DW/SNB for more paladin looking characters. Possible suggestion is to add major sorcery, while not breach, will help alleviate bar space issues.

All in all, Templar will be bottom barrel compared to mag Sorc buffs, mag dk buffs, stamDK stealing stamplar identity of dot pressure/major mending identity, and necromancer. All other classes can accomplish what they need in less than it takes to setup Templar burst. conclusion still current, but recent changes have helped.

Gorem

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

StamDK should be a weapons class with passive and active skills that make it easy to play without a class spammable. It's role should be to truly stand it's ground along with templar.
So far stamDK is only a SnB/2h Bloodspawn 7th Fury build and nothing else, unfit for Cyrodiil.
Stamplar is very good to look at. Resently has become strong as well. It's Aedric Spear playstyle should be improved a little bit.Stand your ground templar.
Stamsorc needs to feel more than a battlemage. More magic. Less AoE annoyance.
Stamblade is the best concept of ESO. My only problem with the class is that it's abilities, active and passives are overloaded.
Stamden is strong yet I don't get the impression that this class has anything to do with nature or ice. It is also overloaded and without weak points.


Some skill lines that affect class identity in a negative way:
1) ESO is a game designed to be based around story, adventure and freedom to make unique characters. I think that it is a bad idea to say that X class should be better at tanking or DPS or Healing. I think that it would be better to have Undaunted, Fighters Guild and Psijic order to have tools to improve those functions. A good healer should be a mix of Class flavour and Guild potency etc etc. Maybe it's too late to make such huge changes but I think the devs should reflect on that.

2) Vampires should be more than passive stats and mist form. It should be a unique playstyle like werewolves.

3) Class ultimates should not be weaker than ultimates available to all classes. Dawnbreaker is a very serious issue for a number of years now. The weapon ultimates, weak as they are, are a bad idea imo. Some of those skills could be changed and used in a class tool kit since so many class ultimates are unused
Imagine a templar with a dawnbreaker (rebalanced)
Imagine a stamsorc with thundering Rend from DW.

i agree there should be base Class Skills for each type kinda like the necromancer, Heal, tank, dps and 4 dedicated archetypes skill sets available to all class's such as a tri Resource sustain, magic, Defense, and stamina with utility mix. this would give more balance on an easier scale to maintain with adding new class's and build options in the future.

likecats

Minno wrote: »

After seeing the templar changes and indirect changes, here's my updated feedback based on Gina's requested questions.

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?:
- No, but the lack of changes modernizing some of the outdated templar skills are against the spirit of the class. Or to put it better, the class feels like a lack of an identity and most players feel like the devs are pushing them towards heavy armor healbot roles where they hold block and cast BOL till they die. Not much group debuff/buff, clunky burst/pressure and no AOE cc mechanic lends to templars feeling they cannot operate any role they want without severe downsides compared to other classes.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
- Yes and No. Cast time changes to GCD result in weird clunky loss in speed. For example, punchering sweeps is faster if I dont light attack afterwards and is slightly slower when I do. Same for things like Dark Flare, wreckling blow, etc.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
- weaker. While many audits resulted in finally modernizing the templar kit (toppling being faster, etc) other classes received audits that surpass the balance feedback we gave prior to the new chapter. This results in a weaker class once you compare the buffs DK, Sorcs, and nightblades received as well as the kit from the necromancer.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
- Yes and no. Some abilities are still underperforming or are clunky/outdated. For example practice incantation only recevie minor adjustment despite ultimate not having been touched since 2015 with rememberance being the superior morph. But you adjusted restoring aura while also looking into the speed/cc function of toppling. 50/50

Do you have any other general feedback?
- Templar still has no clear identity and stamplar has taken heavy nerfs while giving their identity away to stamDK.

Previous Feedback (updates in bold/strikethrough):

Templar
Aedric Spear

Burning Light: great change, needs extensive cyro testing on live however for efficiency tests. Jabs snare is still dodge able though.

Focused Charge: minimum range doesn't match other gap closers, at least ones that grant a secondary effect like lotus fan.fixed
Explosive Charge (morph): no one is using this spell for the AOE dmg. It doesnt break targets out of stealth, requires a target, is too slow, and makes your vulnerable. Niche application as a bomber build but Templar has nothing that helps to escape those situations like a nightblade can.
Toppling Charge (morph): has potential to be a great change. but has same downsides as explosive charge; most serious PVP players deslot this ability since it opens you up to being cc'd and burst. If DMG buff is to be a buff for Templar, then consistency of use must be created.faster and now has no minimum range. fixed

Piercing Javelin: dmg boost buff was weird at range, because templars lack the absolute ranged strength of sorcs to fully use this DMG boost to it's full potential. Skill audit would have shown that one of the magplar pain points is too many cc options that have too many niche applications and all contradict each other. Why run javelin when I can heal+unreflected+unblocked dMG with total dark? But I can't use total dark on cc immune targets and toppling charge becomes generic gap closer when I cast total dark first.

Puncturing Strikes: best change this patch but there's a bug as cinbri noted regarding it's efficiency on pts.

Radial Sweep: great change for range. Still misses targets due to how the hitbox is looking for those targets.
Empowering Sweep (morph): this is hard to swallow because it violates the core reasoning of this patch while increasing the main pain point of stamplar; low survivability after post-nerf of major mending under wrobel. its an AOE 2s pulse that has empower; solar barrage shares this same exact mechanic and thus is instantly redundant. It may be an ultimate, and some pve stamplars love it, but in PvP it takes away from survival for that class.

Spear Shards: good buffs for pve templar but stamplar can't use it. So it's one sided change.

Sun Shield:
.great change for seeing skills and values they bring, because it was tricking both players and devs into thinking this is a great defensive skill. But if blazing was above other options, you'd see it on every templar build and in competitive PvP applications. It doesn't defend well and it doesnt damage well; because of that it will always be replaced by something more damaging or defensive. Radiant ward is perfect for PVE tanks however but the cost increase is a nerf to them sadly. Is 9% per hit good enough for competitive pve? This ability will still find extremely niche use in PvP and it doesn't solve pve tank pain points. dmg off radiant ward is very promising, but it's 10k crits on PVE mobs which means it will only be 2k dmg after all mitigation. blazing shield is still useless

Dawn’s Wrath
Eclipse: great mechanic balance for DKs now. Tooltip Great for knowledge too in understanding how it works,but has core issue of its design rests on this cooldown. damage was originally by wrobel increased to account for this 0.75s cooldown. and to boot, healing was never increase to account for this as well. core ability still suffers in that you are giving targets cc immunity without stopping their actions and the niche applications. Other cc abilities are rendered useless if trying to make most of this spell. Hard to use with new toppling charge since you'll waste two slots for a cc immunity granting spell.

Power of the Light: pve change, while decent, only buffs pve templar healers who did not need buffs on core DPS centered abilities. Dmg loss impacts PVE stamplar and PVP stamplar looking to stretch their dmg to counter the fact their have no defense.

Solar Flare: great change on both speed and cast times. but is 37% dmg reduction worth 0.1 seconds and slightly faster shot? Snipe, receiving similar change, has only a 27% reduction on damage. In comparison, Jabs while received evasion nerfs but got buffs to compensate as well; dark flare should be buffed now that wings is 50% dmg reduction for similar reasons. With reflective light/vamp bane losing ability to be used as a spamable for both instant cast+dot for greater Dmg, dark flare feels more like a redundant ability that functions similarly to vamp bane but only useful on gank builds/zerglings and will never see application in pve. Solar barrage is great change however to help fix it mechanically.

Sun Fire: great change for server calcs, but if dark flare isnt buffed, magplar loses partially efficiency in one aspect of it's (community applied) core identity of "i can do AOE, Melee and range all in one package". Plus ability has issues granting crit buff due to requiring hits instead of cast so it's not functioning according to similar buff spells and thus missed it's chance by the team on their audits.

Restoring Light
Breath of Life: great adjustment for pvp balance. Shame other similar heals in the game don't follow this requirement of positioning and LOS walls (Sorc pet heal for example).

Cleansing Ritual: great change but weird issue with Ritual of retribution. dmg of this spell buffed with highest stat either weapon/stam but is still magic damage so CP scaling will be annoying. Extended ritual is fine as is, though stamplars aren't sitting around for this heal in highly mobile combat.

Practiced Incantation: heal percentage fix didn't really make morph attractive versus rememberance. For a defensive ult, it hasn't been updated according for the highly mobile game design intent, and both morphs haven't really been touched since 2015-2016. Another missed chance to audit to update Templar proactive defense pain point.

Restoring Aura: great change in adding zero cost while increasing duration to match ele drain. Will open up weapon optiosn slightly though major breach is too important to give up and the light attacks off destro staff punish templars looking to experiment with DW/SNB for more paladin looking characters. Possible suggestion is to add major sorcery, while not breach, will help alleviate bar space issues.

All in all, Templar will be bottom barrel compared to mag Sorc buffs, mag dk buffs, stamDK stealing stamplar identity of dot pressure/major mending identity, and necromancer. All other classes can accomplish what they need in less than it takes to setup Templar burst. conclusion still current, but recent changes have helped.

Not sure if you're speaking of stamplar or magplar, but as a magplar player, this patch basically adjusted most of the major painpoints I had with magplar.

1) Toppling charge - The minimum distance on this ability meant that you can not use it as a reliable CC. With no minimum distance, there is no requirement to slot javelin to reliably CC someone. Really hyped for this change.

2) RAT - Being forced to play as vampire was a major painpoint for me as a magplar. But RAT solves two problems with 1. Snare immunity + major expedition, this ability will be a game changer for magplars and even stamplars for specific builds.

3) Empowering/crescent sweep - The range increase from 6m to 8m is a very welcome change. The range was the one reason why I always ended up not using this ultimate. 6m was way too little, especially considering that many melee abilties are more than 6m so you would often miss it even if you use it in melee range. With 8m, it should be much more reliable when you use it in melee range.

4) Radiant aura - Making it free cost will make this ability really good in PVP. The ability already has nice passives, and now it also has a nice active effect. In PVP, this ability will be the more popular means of applying magickasteal since, you can apply it on everyone in 1 GCD. Many naysayers are saying elemental drain will be better, but I can guarantee in BGs, this will be the more popular morph.

5) Puncturing sweep - Channel time reduction is always welcome without damage reduction. Not a major change but still welcome.

6) Repentance - With necromancers coming out, this ability got meta-buffed, since you will have a **** ton of corpses providing free stam and health. This ability might even be worthwhile for magplars who make good use of their stam.


From a PVP perspective, this patch has really addressed many painpoints for magplars. I'm looking forward to playing my magplar after this patch.

Dracan_Fontom

likecats wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

After seeing the templar changes and indirect changes, here's my updated feedback based on Gina's requested questions.

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?:
- No, but the lack of changes modernizing some of the outdated templar skills are against the spirit of the class. Or to put it better, the class feels like a lack of an identity and most players feel like the devs are pushing them towards heavy armor healbot roles where they hold block and cast BOL till they die. Not much group debuff/buff, clunky burst/pressure and no AOE cc mechanic lends to templars feeling they cannot operate any role they want without severe downsides compared to other classes.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
- Yes and No. Cast time changes to GCD result in weird clunky loss in speed. For example, punchering sweeps is faster if I dont light attack afterwards and is slightly slower when I do. Same for things like Dark Flare, wreckling blow, etc.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
- weaker. While many audits resulted in finally modernizing the templar kit (toppling being faster, etc) other classes received audits that surpass the balance feedback we gave prior to the new chapter. This results in a weaker class once you compare the buffs DK, Sorcs, and nightblades received as well as the kit from the necromancer.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
- Yes and no. Some abilities are still underperforming or are clunky/outdated. For example practice incantation only recevie minor adjustment despite ultimate not having been touched since 2015 with rememberance being the superior morph. But you adjusted restoring aura while also looking into the speed/cc function of toppling. 50/50

Do you have any other general feedback?
- Templar still has no clear identity and stamplar has taken heavy nerfs while giving their identity away to stamDK.

Previous Feedback (updates in bold/strikethrough):

Templar
Aedric Spear

Burning Light: great change, needs extensive cyro testing on live however for efficiency tests. Jabs snare is still dodge able though.

Focused Charge: minimum range doesn't match other gap closers, at least ones that grant a secondary effect like lotus fan.fixed
Explosive Charge (morph): no one is using this spell for the AOE dmg. It doesnt break targets out of stealth, requires a target, is too slow, and makes your vulnerable. Niche application as a bomber build but Templar has nothing that helps to escape those situations like a nightblade can.
Toppling Charge (morph): has potential to be a great change. but has same downsides as explosive charge; most serious PVP players deslot this ability since it opens you up to being cc'd and burst. If DMG buff is to be a buff for Templar, then consistency of use must be created.faster and now has no minimum range. fixed

Piercing Javelin: dmg boost buff was weird at range, because templars lack the absolute ranged strength of sorcs to fully use this DMG boost to it's full potential. Skill audit would have shown that one of the magplar pain points is too many cc options that have too many niche applications and all contradict each other. Why run javelin when I can heal+unreflected+unblocked dMG with total dark? But I can't use total dark on cc immune targets and toppling charge becomes generic gap closer when I cast total dark first.

Puncturing Strikes: best change this patch but there's a bug as cinbri noted regarding it's efficiency on pts.

Radial Sweep: great change for range. Still misses targets due to how the hitbox is looking for those targets.
Empowering Sweep (morph): this is hard to swallow because it violates the core reasoning of this patch while increasing the main pain point of stamplar; low survivability after post-nerf of major mending under wrobel. its an AOE 2s pulse that has empower; solar barrage shares this same exact mechanic and thus is instantly redundant. It may be an ultimate, and some pve stamplars love it, but in PvP it takes away from survival for that class.

Spear Shards: good buffs for pve templar but stamplar can't use it. So it's one sided change.

Sun Shield:
.great change for seeing skills and values they bring, because it was tricking both players and devs into thinking this is a great defensive skill. But if blazing was above other options, you'd see it on every templar build and in competitive PvP applications. It doesn't defend well and it doesnt damage well; because of that it will always be replaced by something more damaging or defensive. Radiant ward is perfect for PVE tanks however but the cost increase is a nerf to them sadly. Is 9% per hit good enough for competitive pve? This ability will still find extremely niche use in PvP and it doesn't solve pve tank pain points. dmg off radiant ward is very promising, but it's 10k crits on PVE mobs which means it will only be 2k dmg after all mitigation. blazing shield is still useless

Dawn’s Wrath
Eclipse: great mechanic balance for DKs now. Tooltip Great for knowledge too in understanding how it works,but has core issue of its design rests on this cooldown. damage was originally by wrobel increased to account for this 0.75s cooldown. and to boot, healing was never increase to account for this as well. core ability still suffers in that you are giving targets cc immunity without stopping their actions and the niche applications. Other cc abilities are rendered useless if trying to make most of this spell. Hard to use with new toppling charge since you'll waste two slots for a cc immunity granting spell.

Power of the Light: pve change, while decent, only buffs pve templar healers who did not need buffs on core DPS centered abilities. Dmg loss impacts PVE stamplar and PVP stamplar looking to stretch their dmg to counter the fact their have no defense.

Solar Flare: great change on both speed and cast times. but is 37% dmg reduction worth 0.1 seconds and slightly faster shot? Snipe, receiving similar change, has only a 27% reduction on damage. In comparison, Jabs while received evasion nerfs but got buffs to compensate as well; dark flare should be buffed now that wings is 50% dmg reduction for similar reasons. With reflective light/vamp bane losing ability to be used as a spamable for both instant cast+dot for greater Dmg, dark flare feels more like a redundant ability that functions similarly to vamp bane but only useful on gank builds/zerglings and will never see application in pve. Solar barrage is great change however to help fix it mechanically.

Sun Fire: great change for server calcs, but if dark flare isnt buffed, magplar loses partially efficiency in one aspect of it's (community applied) core identity of "i can do AOE, Melee and range all in one package". Plus ability has issues granting crit buff due to requiring hits instead of cast so it's not functioning according to similar buff spells and thus missed it's chance by the team on their audits.

Restoring Light
Breath of Life: great adjustment for pvp balance. Shame other similar heals in the game don't follow this requirement of positioning and LOS walls (Sorc pet heal for example).

Cleansing Ritual: great change but weird issue with Ritual of retribution. dmg of this spell buffed with highest stat either weapon/stam but is still magic damage so CP scaling will be annoying. Extended ritual is fine as is, though stamplars aren't sitting around for this heal in highly mobile combat.

Practiced Incantation: heal percentage fix didn't really make morph attractive versus rememberance. For a defensive ult, it hasn't been updated according for the highly mobile game design intent, and both morphs haven't really been touched since 2015-2016. Another missed chance to audit to update Templar proactive defense pain point.

Restoring Aura: great change in adding zero cost while increasing duration to match ele drain. Will open up weapon optiosn slightly though major breach is too important to give up and the light attacks off destro staff punish templars looking to experiment with DW/SNB for more paladin looking characters. Possible suggestion is to add major sorcery, while not breach, will help alleviate bar space issues.

All in all, Templar will be bottom barrel compared to mag Sorc buffs, mag dk buffs, stamDK stealing stamplar identity of dot pressure/major mending identity, and necromancer. All other classes can accomplish what they need in less than it takes to setup Templar burst. conclusion still current, but recent changes have helped.

Not sure if you're speaking of stamplar or magplar, but as a magplar player, this patch basically adjusted most of the major painpoints I had with magplar.

1) Toppling charge - The minimum distance on this ability meant that you can not use it as a reliable CC. With no minimum distance, there is no requirement to slot javelin to reliably CC someone. Really hyped for this change.

2) RAT - Being forced to play as vampire was a major painpoint for me as a magplar. But RAT solves two problems with 1. Snare immunity + major expedition, this ability will be a game changer for magplars and even stamplars for specific builds.

3) Empowering/crescent sweep - The range increase from 6m to 8m is a very welcome change. The range was the one reason why I always ended up not using this ultimate. 6m was way too little, especially considering that many melee abilties are more than 6m so you would often miss it even if you use it in melee range. With 8m, it should be much more reliable when you use it in melee range.

4) Radiant aura - Making it free cost will make this ability really good in PVP. The ability already has nice passives, and now it also has a nice active effect. In PVP, this ability will be the more popular means of applying magickasteal since, you can apply it on everyone in 1 GCD. Many naysayers are saying elemental drain will be better, but I can guarantee in BGs, this will be the more popular morph.

5) Puncturing sweep - Channel time reduction is always welcome without damage reduction. Not a major change but still welcome.

6) Repentance - With necromancers coming out, this ability got meta-buffed, since you will have a **** ton of corpses providing free stam and health. This ability might even be worthwhile for magplars who make good use of their stam.


From a PVP perspective, this patch has really addressed many painpoints for magplars. I'm looking forward to playing my magplar after this patch.

You might be wrong on the sixth point. Iirc, templar's repentance and necro's corpses won't interact in any way

hunter937

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

After seeing the templar changes and indirect changes, here's my updated feedback based on Gina's requested questions.

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?:
- No, but the lack of changes modernizing some of the outdated templar skills are against the spirit of the class. Or to put it better, the class feels like a lack of an identity and most players feel like the devs are pushing them towards heavy armor healbot roles where they hold block and cast BOL till they die. Not much group debuff/buff, clunky burst/pressure and no AOE cc mechanic lends to templars feeling they cannot operate any role they want without severe downsides compared to other classes.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
- Yes and No. Cast time changes to GCD result in weird clunky loss in speed. For example, punchering sweeps is faster if I dont light attack afterwards and is slightly slower when I do. Same for things like Dark Flare, wreckling blow, etc.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
- weaker. While many audits resulted in finally modernizing the templar kit (toppling being faster, etc) other classes received audits that surpass the balance feedback we gave prior to the new chapter. This results in a weaker class once you compare the buffs DK, Sorcs, and nightblades received as well as the kit from the necromancer.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
- Yes and no. Some abilities are still underperforming or are clunky/outdated. For example practice incantation only recevie minor adjustment despite ultimate not having been touched since 2015 with rememberance being the superior morph. But you adjusted restoring aura while also looking into the speed/cc function of toppling. 50/50

Do you have any other general feedback?
- Templar still has no clear identity and stamplar has taken heavy nerfs while giving their identity away to stamDK.

Previous Feedback (updates in bold/strikethrough):

Templar
Aedric Spear

Burning Light: great change, needs extensive cyro testing on live however for efficiency tests. Jabs snare is still dodge able though.

Focused Charge: minimum range doesn't match other gap closers, at least ones that grant a secondary effect like lotus fan.fixed
Explosive Charge (morph): no one is using this spell for the AOE dmg. It doesnt break targets out of stealth, requires a target, is too slow, and makes your vulnerable. Niche application as a bomber build but Templar has nothing that helps to escape those situations like a nightblade can.
Toppling Charge (morph): has potential to be a great change. but has same downsides as explosive charge; most serious PVP players deslot this ability since it opens you up to being cc'd and burst. If DMG buff is to be a buff for Templar, then consistency of use must be created.faster and now has no minimum range. fixed

Piercing Javelin: dmg boost buff was weird at range, because templars lack the absolute ranged strength of sorcs to fully use this DMG boost to it's full potential. Skill audit would have shown that one of the magplar pain points is too many cc options that have too many niche applications and all contradict each other. Why run javelin when I can heal+unreflected+unblocked dMG with total dark? But I can't use total dark on cc immune targets and toppling charge becomes generic gap closer when I cast total dark first.

Puncturing Strikes: best change this patch but there's a bug as cinbri noted regarding it's efficiency on pts.

Radial Sweep: great change for range. Still misses targets due to how the hitbox is looking for those targets.
Empowering Sweep (morph): this is hard to swallow because it violates the core reasoning of this patch while increasing the main pain point of stamplar; low survivability after post-nerf of major mending under wrobel. its an AOE 2s pulse that has empower; solar barrage shares this same exact mechanic and thus is instantly redundant. It may be an ultimate, and some pve stamplars love it, but in PvP it takes away from survival for that class.

Spear Shards: good buffs for pve templar but stamplar can't use it. So it's one sided change.

Sun Shield:
.great change for seeing skills and values they bring, because it was tricking both players and devs into thinking this is a great defensive skill. But if blazing was above other options, you'd see it on every templar build and in competitive PvP applications. It doesn't defend well and it doesnt damage well; because of that it will always be replaced by something more damaging or defensive. Radiant ward is perfect for PVE tanks however but the cost increase is a nerf to them sadly. Is 9% per hit good enough for competitive pve? This ability will still find extremely niche use in PvP and it doesn't solve pve tank pain points. dmg off radiant ward is very promising, but it's 10k crits on PVE mobs which means it will only be 2k dmg after all mitigation. blazing shield is still useless

Dawn’s Wrath
Eclipse: great mechanic balance for DKs now. Tooltip Great for knowledge too in understanding how it works,but has core issue of its design rests on this cooldown. damage was originally by wrobel increased to account for this 0.75s cooldown. and to boot, healing was never increase to account for this as well. core ability still suffers in that you are giving targets cc immunity without stopping their actions and the niche applications. Other cc abilities are rendered useless if trying to make most of this spell. Hard to use with new toppling charge since you'll waste two slots for a cc immunity granting spell.

Power of the Light: pve change, while decent, only buffs pve templar healers who did not need buffs on core DPS centered abilities. Dmg loss impacts PVE stamplar and PVP stamplar looking to stretch their dmg to counter the fact their have no defense.

Solar Flare: great change on both speed and cast times. but is 37% dmg reduction worth 0.1 seconds and slightly faster shot? Snipe, receiving similar change, has only a 27% reduction on damage. In comparison, Jabs while received evasion nerfs but got buffs to compensate as well; dark flare should be buffed now that wings is 50% dmg reduction for similar reasons. With reflective light/vamp bane losing ability to be used as a spamable for both instant cast+dot for greater Dmg, dark flare feels more like a redundant ability that functions similarly to vamp bane but only useful on gank builds/zerglings and will never see application in pve. Solar barrage is great change however to help fix it mechanically.

Sun Fire: great change for server calcs, but if dark flare isnt buffed, magplar loses partially efficiency in one aspect of it's (community applied) core identity of "i can do AOE, Melee and range all in one package". Plus ability has issues granting crit buff due to requiring hits instead of cast so it's not functioning according to similar buff spells and thus missed it's chance by the team on their audits.

Restoring Light
Breath of Life: great adjustment for pvp balance. Shame other similar heals in the game don't follow this requirement of positioning and LOS walls (Sorc pet heal for example).

Cleansing Ritual: great change but weird issue with Ritual of retribution. dmg of this spell buffed with highest stat either weapon/stam but is still magic damage so CP scaling will be annoying. Extended ritual is fine as is, though stamplars aren't sitting around for this heal in highly mobile combat.

Practiced Incantation: heal percentage fix didn't really make morph attractive versus rememberance. For a defensive ult, it hasn't been updated according for the highly mobile game design intent, and both morphs haven't really been touched since 2015-2016. Another missed chance to audit to update Templar proactive defense pain point.

Restoring Aura: great change in adding zero cost while increasing duration to match ele drain. Will open up weapon optiosn slightly though major breach is too important to give up and the light attacks off destro staff punish templars looking to experiment with DW/SNB for more paladin looking characters. Possible suggestion is to add major sorcery, while not breach, will help alleviate bar space issues.

All in all, Templar will be bottom barrel compared to mag Sorc buffs, mag dk buffs, stamDK stealing stamplar identity of dot pressure/major mending identity, and necromancer. All other classes can accomplish what they need in less than it takes to setup Templar burst. conclusion still current, but recent changes have helped.

Not sure if you're speaking of stamplar or magplar, but as a magplar player, this patch basically adjusted most of the major painpoints I had with magplar.

1) Toppling charge - The minimum distance on this ability meant that you can not use it as a reliable CC. With no minimum distance, there is no requirement to slot javelin to reliably CC someone. Really hyped for this change.

2) RAT - Being forced to play as vampire was a major painpoint for me as a magplar. But RAT solves two problems with 1. Snare immunity + major expedition, this ability will be a game changer for magplars and even stamplars for specific builds.

3) Empowering/crescent sweep - The range increase from 6m to 8m is a very welcome change. The range was the one reason why I always ended up not using this ultimate. 6m was way too little, especially considering that many melee abilties are more than 6m so you would often miss it even if you use it in melee range. With 8m, it should be much more reliable when you use it in melee range.

4) Radiant aura - Making it free cost will make this ability really good in PVP. The ability already has nice passives, and now it also has a nice active effect. In PVP, this ability will be the more popular means of applying magickasteal since, you can apply it on everyone in 1 GCD. Many naysayers are saying elemental drain will be better, but I can guarantee in BGs, this will be the more popular morph.

5) Puncturing sweep - Channel time reduction is always welcome without damage reduction. Not a major change but still welcome.

6) Repentance - With necromancers coming out, this ability got meta-buffed, since you will have a **** ton of corpses providing free stam and health. This ability might even be worthwhile for magplars who make good use of their stam.


From a PVP perspective, this patch has really addressed many painpoints for magplars. I'm looking forward to playing my magplar after this patch.

You might be wrong on the sixth point. Iirc, templar's repentance and necro's corpses won't interact in any way

they should

hunter937

hunter937 wrote: »

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

After seeing the templar changes and indirect changes, here's my updated feedback based on Gina's requested questions.

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?:
- No, but the lack of changes modernizing some of the outdated templar skills are against the spirit of the class. Or to put it better, the class feels like a lack of an identity and most players feel like the devs are pushing them towards heavy armor healbot roles where they hold block and cast BOL till they die. Not much group debuff/buff, clunky burst/pressure and no AOE cc mechanic lends to templars feeling they cannot operate any role they want without severe downsides compared to other classes.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
- Yes and No. Cast time changes to GCD result in weird clunky loss in speed. For example, punchering sweeps is faster if I dont light attack afterwards and is slightly slower when I do. Same for things like Dark Flare, wreckling blow, etc.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
- weaker. While many audits resulted in finally modernizing the templar kit (toppling being faster, etc) other classes received audits that surpass the balance feedback we gave prior to the new chapter. This results in a weaker class once you compare the buffs DK, Sorcs, and nightblades received as well as the kit from the necromancer.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
- Yes and no. Some abilities are still underperforming or are clunky/outdated. For example practice incantation only recevie minor adjustment despite ultimate not having been touched since 2015 with rememberance being the superior morph. But you adjusted restoring aura while also looking into the speed/cc function of toppling. 50/50

Do you have any other general feedback?
- Templar still has no clear identity and stamplar has taken heavy nerfs while giving their identity away to stamDK.

Previous Feedback (updates in bold/strikethrough):

Templar
Aedric Spear

Burning Light: great change, needs extensive cyro testing on live however for efficiency tests. Jabs snare is still dodge able though.

Focused Charge: minimum range doesn't match other gap closers, at least ones that grant a secondary effect like lotus fan.fixed
Explosive Charge (morph): no one is using this spell for the AOE dmg. It doesnt break targets out of stealth, requires a target, is too slow, and makes your vulnerable. Niche application as a bomber build but Templar has nothing that helps to escape those situations like a nightblade can.
Toppling Charge (morph): has potential to be a great change. but has same downsides as explosive charge; most serious PVP players deslot this ability since it opens you up to being cc'd and burst. If DMG buff is to be a buff for Templar, then consistency of use must be created.faster and now has no minimum range. fixed

Piercing Javelin: dmg boost buff was weird at range, because templars lack the absolute ranged strength of sorcs to fully use this DMG boost to it's full potential. Skill audit would have shown that one of the magplar pain points is too many cc options that have too many niche applications and all contradict each other. Why run javelin when I can heal+unreflected+unblocked dMG with total dark? But I can't use total dark on cc immune targets and toppling charge becomes generic gap closer when I cast total dark first.

Puncturing Strikes: best change this patch but there's a bug as cinbri noted regarding it's efficiency on pts.

Radial Sweep: great change for range. Still misses targets due to how the hitbox is looking for those targets.
Empowering Sweep (morph): this is hard to swallow because it violates the core reasoning of this patch while increasing the main pain point of stamplar; low survivability after post-nerf of major mending under wrobel. its an AOE 2s pulse that has empower; solar barrage shares this same exact mechanic and thus is instantly redundant. It may be an ultimate, and some pve stamplars love it, but in PvP it takes away from survival for that class.

Spear Shards: good buffs for pve templar but stamplar can't use it. So it's one sided change.

Sun Shield:
.great change for seeing skills and values they bring, because it was tricking both players and devs into thinking this is a great defensive skill. But if blazing was above other options, you'd see it on every templar build and in competitive PvP applications. It doesn't defend well and it doesnt damage well; because of that it will always be replaced by something more damaging or defensive. Radiant ward is perfect for PVE tanks however but the cost increase is a nerf to them sadly. Is 9% per hit good enough for competitive pve? This ability will still find extremely niche use in PvP and it doesn't solve pve tank pain points. dmg off radiant ward is very promising, but it's 10k crits on PVE mobs which means it will only be 2k dmg after all mitigation. blazing shield is still useless

Dawn’s Wrath
Eclipse: great mechanic balance for DKs now. Tooltip Great for knowledge too in understanding how it works,but has core issue of its design rests on this cooldown. damage was originally by wrobel increased to account for this 0.75s cooldown. and to boot, healing was never increase to account for this as well. core ability still suffers in that you are giving targets cc immunity without stopping their actions and the niche applications. Other cc abilities are rendered useless if trying to make most of this spell. Hard to use with new toppling charge since you'll waste two slots for a cc immunity granting spell.

Power of the Light: pve change, while decent, only buffs pve templar healers who did not need buffs on core DPS centered abilities. Dmg loss impacts PVE stamplar and PVP stamplar looking to stretch their dmg to counter the fact their have no defense.

Solar Flare: great change on both speed and cast times. but is 37% dmg reduction worth 0.1 seconds and slightly faster shot? Snipe, receiving similar change, has only a 27% reduction on damage. In comparison, Jabs while received evasion nerfs but got buffs to compensate as well; dark flare should be buffed now that wings is 50% dmg reduction for similar reasons. With reflective light/vamp bane losing ability to be used as a spamable for both instant cast+dot for greater Dmg, dark flare feels more like a redundant ability that functions similarly to vamp bane but only useful on gank builds/zerglings and will never see application in pve. Solar barrage is great change however to help fix it mechanically.

Sun Fire: great change for server calcs, but if dark flare isnt buffed, magplar loses partially efficiency in one aspect of it's (community applied) core identity of "i can do AOE, Melee and range all in one package". Plus ability has issues granting crit buff due to requiring hits instead of cast so it's not functioning according to similar buff spells and thus missed it's chance by the team on their audits.

Restoring Light
Breath of Life: great adjustment for pvp balance. Shame other similar heals in the game don't follow this requirement of positioning and LOS walls (Sorc pet heal for example).

Cleansing Ritual: great change but weird issue with Ritual of retribution. dmg of this spell buffed with highest stat either weapon/stam but is still magic damage so CP scaling will be annoying. Extended ritual is fine as is, though stamplars aren't sitting around for this heal in highly mobile combat.

Practiced Incantation: heal percentage fix didn't really make morph attractive versus rememberance. For a defensive ult, it hasn't been updated according for the highly mobile game design intent, and both morphs haven't really been touched since 2015-2016. Another missed chance to audit to update Templar proactive defense pain point.

Restoring Aura: great change in adding zero cost while increasing duration to match ele drain. Will open up weapon optiosn slightly though major breach is too important to give up and the light attacks off destro staff punish templars looking to experiment with DW/SNB for more paladin looking characters. Possible suggestion is to add major sorcery, while not breach, will help alleviate bar space issues.

All in all, Templar will be bottom barrel compared to mag Sorc buffs, mag dk buffs, stamDK stealing stamplar identity of dot pressure/major mending identity, and necromancer. All other classes can accomplish what they need in less than it takes to setup Templar burst. conclusion still current, but recent changes have helped.

Not sure if you're speaking of stamplar or magplar, but as a magplar player, this patch basically adjusted most of the major painpoints I had with magplar.

1) Toppling charge - The minimum distance on this ability meant that you can not use it as a reliable CC. With no minimum distance, there is no requirement to slot javelin to reliably CC someone. Really hyped for this change.

2) RAT - Being forced to play as vampire was a major painpoint for me as a magplar. But RAT solves two problems with 1. Snare immunity + major expedition, this ability will be a game changer for magplars and even stamplars for specific builds.

3) Empowering/crescent sweep - The range increase from 6m to 8m is a very welcome change. The range was the one reason why I always ended up not using this ultimate. 6m was way too little, especially considering that many melee abilties are more than 6m so you would often miss it even if you use it in melee range. With 8m, it should be much more reliable when you use it in melee range.

4) Radiant aura - Making it free cost will make this ability really good in PVP. The ability already has nice passives, and now it also has a nice active effect. In PVP, this ability will be the more popular means of applying magickasteal since, you can apply it on everyone in 1 GCD. Many naysayers are saying elemental drain will be better, but I can guarantee in BGs, this will be the more popular morph.

5) Puncturing sweep - Channel time reduction is always welcome without damage reduction. Not a major change but still welcome.

6) Repentance - With necromancers coming out, this ability got meta-buffed, since you will have a **** ton of corpses providing free stam and health. This ability might even be worthwhile for magplars who make good use of their stam.


From a PVP perspective, this patch has really addressed many painpoints for magplars. I'm looking forward to playing my magplar after this patch.

You might be wrong on the sixth point. Iirc, templar's repentance and necro's corpses won't interact in any way

they should

A corpse is a corpse is a corpse

Dracan_Fontom

hunter937 wrote: »

hunter937 wrote: »

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

After seeing the templar changes and indirect changes, here's my updated feedback based on Gina's requested questions.

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?:
- No, but the lack of changes modernizing some of the outdated templar skills are against the spirit of the class. Or to put it better, the class feels like a lack of an identity and most players feel like the devs are pushing them towards heavy armor healbot roles where they hold block and cast BOL till they die. Not much group debuff/buff, clunky burst/pressure and no AOE cc mechanic lends to templars feeling they cannot operate any role they want without severe downsides compared to other classes.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
- Yes and No. Cast time changes to GCD result in weird clunky loss in speed. For example, punchering sweeps is faster if I dont light attack afterwards and is slightly slower when I do. Same for things like Dark Flare, wreckling blow, etc.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
- weaker. While many audits resulted in finally modernizing the templar kit (toppling being faster, etc) other classes received audits that surpass the balance feedback we gave prior to the new chapter. This results in a weaker class once you compare the buffs DK, Sorcs, and nightblades received as well as the kit from the necromancer.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
- Yes and no. Some abilities are still underperforming or are clunky/outdated. For example practice incantation only recevie minor adjustment despite ultimate not having been touched since 2015 with rememberance being the superior morph. But you adjusted restoring aura while also looking into the speed/cc function of toppling. 50/50

Do you have any other general feedback?
- Templar still has no clear identity and stamplar has taken heavy nerfs while giving their identity away to stamDK.

Previous Feedback (updates in bold/strikethrough):

Templar
Aedric Spear

Burning Light: great change, needs extensive cyro testing on live however for efficiency tests. Jabs snare is still dodge able though.

Focused Charge: minimum range doesn't match other gap closers, at least ones that grant a secondary effect like lotus fan.fixed
Explosive Charge (morph): no one is using this spell for the AOE dmg. It doesnt break targets out of stealth, requires a target, is too slow, and makes your vulnerable. Niche application as a bomber build but Templar has nothing that helps to escape those situations like a nightblade can.
Toppling Charge (morph): has potential to be a great change. but has same downsides as explosive charge; most serious PVP players deslot this ability since it opens you up to being cc'd and burst. If DMG buff is to be a buff for Templar, then consistency of use must be created.faster and now has no minimum range. fixed

Piercing Javelin: dmg boost buff was weird at range, because templars lack the absolute ranged strength of sorcs to fully use this DMG boost to it's full potential. Skill audit would have shown that one of the magplar pain points is too many cc options that have too many niche applications and all contradict each other. Why run javelin when I can heal+unreflected+unblocked dMG with total dark? But I can't use total dark on cc immune targets and toppling charge becomes generic gap closer when I cast total dark first.

Puncturing Strikes: best change this patch but there's a bug as cinbri noted regarding it's efficiency on pts.

Radial Sweep: great change for range. Still misses targets due to how the hitbox is looking for those targets.
Empowering Sweep (morph): this is hard to swallow because it violates the core reasoning of this patch while increasing the main pain point of stamplar; low survivability after post-nerf of major mending under wrobel. its an AOE 2s pulse that has empower; solar barrage shares this same exact mechanic and thus is instantly redundant. It may be an ultimate, and some pve stamplars love it, but in PvP it takes away from survival for that class.

Spear Shards: good buffs for pve templar but stamplar can't use it. So it's one sided change.

Sun Shield:
.great change for seeing skills and values they bring, because it was tricking both players and devs into thinking this is a great defensive skill. But if blazing was above other options, you'd see it on every templar build and in competitive PvP applications. It doesn't defend well and it doesnt damage well; because of that it will always be replaced by something more damaging or defensive. Radiant ward is perfect for PVE tanks however but the cost increase is a nerf to them sadly. Is 9% per hit good enough for competitive pve? This ability will still find extremely niche use in PvP and it doesn't solve pve tank pain points. dmg off radiant ward is very promising, but it's 10k crits on PVE mobs which means it will only be 2k dmg after all mitigation. blazing shield is still useless

Dawn’s Wrath
Eclipse: great mechanic balance for DKs now. Tooltip Great for knowledge too in understanding how it works,but has core issue of its design rests on this cooldown. damage was originally by wrobel increased to account for this 0.75s cooldown. and to boot, healing was never increase to account for this as well. core ability still suffers in that you are giving targets cc immunity without stopping their actions and the niche applications. Other cc abilities are rendered useless if trying to make most of this spell. Hard to use with new toppling charge since you'll waste two slots for a cc immunity granting spell.

Power of the Light: pve change, while decent, only buffs pve templar healers who did not need buffs on core DPS centered abilities. Dmg loss impacts PVE stamplar and PVP stamplar looking to stretch their dmg to counter the fact their have no defense.

Solar Flare: great change on both speed and cast times. but is 37% dmg reduction worth 0.1 seconds and slightly faster shot? Snipe, receiving similar change, has only a 27% reduction on damage. In comparison, Jabs while received evasion nerfs but got buffs to compensate as well; dark flare should be buffed now that wings is 50% dmg reduction for similar reasons. With reflective light/vamp bane losing ability to be used as a spamable for both instant cast+dot for greater Dmg, dark flare feels more like a redundant ability that functions similarly to vamp bane but only useful on gank builds/zerglings and will never see application in pve. Solar barrage is great change however to help fix it mechanically.

Sun Fire: great change for server calcs, but if dark flare isnt buffed, magplar loses partially efficiency in one aspect of it's (community applied) core identity of "i can do AOE, Melee and range all in one package". Plus ability has issues granting crit buff due to requiring hits instead of cast so it's not functioning according to similar buff spells and thus missed it's chance by the team on their audits.

Restoring Light
Breath of Life: great adjustment for pvp balance. Shame other similar heals in the game don't follow this requirement of positioning and LOS walls (Sorc pet heal for example).

Cleansing Ritual: great change but weird issue with Ritual of retribution. dmg of this spell buffed with highest stat either weapon/stam but is still magic damage so CP scaling will be annoying. Extended ritual is fine as is, though stamplars aren't sitting around for this heal in highly mobile combat.

Practiced Incantation: heal percentage fix didn't really make morph attractive versus rememberance. For a defensive ult, it hasn't been updated according for the highly mobile game design intent, and both morphs haven't really been touched since 2015-2016. Another missed chance to audit to update Templar proactive defense pain point.

Restoring Aura: great change in adding zero cost while increasing duration to match ele drain. Will open up weapon optiosn slightly though major breach is too important to give up and the light attacks off destro staff punish templars looking to experiment with DW/SNB for more paladin looking characters. Possible suggestion is to add major sorcery, while not breach, will help alleviate bar space issues.

All in all, Templar will be bottom barrel compared to mag Sorc buffs, mag dk buffs, stamDK stealing stamplar identity of dot pressure/major mending identity, and necromancer. All other classes can accomplish what they need in less than it takes to setup Templar burst. conclusion still current, but recent changes have helped.

Not sure if you're speaking of stamplar or magplar, but as a magplar player, this patch basically adjusted most of the major painpoints I had with magplar.

1) Toppling charge - The minimum distance on this ability meant that you can not use it as a reliable CC. With no minimum distance, there is no requirement to slot javelin to reliably CC someone. Really hyped for this change.

2) RAT - Being forced to play as vampire was a major painpoint for me as a magplar. But RAT solves two problems with 1. Snare immunity + major expedition, this ability will be a game changer for magplars and even stamplars for specific builds.

3) Empowering/crescent sweep - The range increase from 6m to 8m is a very welcome change. The range was the one reason why I always ended up not using this ultimate. 6m was way too little, especially considering that many melee abilties are more than 6m so you would often miss it even if you use it in melee range. With 8m, it should be much more reliable when you use it in melee range.

4) Radiant aura - Making it free cost will make this ability really good in PVP. The ability already has nice passives, and now it also has a nice active effect. In PVP, this ability will be the more popular means of applying magickasteal since, you can apply it on everyone in 1 GCD. Many naysayers are saying elemental drain will be better, but I can guarantee in BGs, this will be the more popular morph.

5) Puncturing sweep - Channel time reduction is always welcome without damage reduction. Not a major change but still welcome.

6) Repentance - With necromancers coming out, this ability got meta-buffed, since you will have a **** ton of corpses providing free stam and health. This ability might even be worthwhile for magplars who make good use of their stam.


From a PVP perspective, this patch has really addressed many painpoints for magplars. I'm looking forward to playing my magplar after this patch.

You might be wrong on the sixth point. Iirc, templar's repentance and necro's corpses won't interact in any way

they should

A corpse is a corpse is a corpse

I disagree.

wheem_ESO

hunter937 wrote: »

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

After seeing the templar changes and indirect changes, here's my updated feedback based on Gina's requested questions.

Are there any changes you feel are against the spirit of the class?:
- No, but the lack of changes modernizing some of the outdated templar skills are against the spirit of the class. Or to put it better, the class feels like a lack of an identity and most players feel like the devs are pushing them towards heavy armor healbot roles where they hold block and cast BOL till they die. Not much group debuff/buff, clunky burst/pressure and no AOE cc mechanic lends to templars feeling they cannot operate any role they want without severe downsides compared to other classes.

Are you able to weave abilities better or worse in this Update?
- Yes and No. Cast time changes to GCD result in weird clunky loss in speed. For example, punchering sweeps is faster if I dont light attack afterwards and is slightly slower when I do. Same for things like Dark Flare, wreckling blow, etc.

Do you feel your class is stronger, weaker, or relatively the same with the standardization pass on class abilities?
- weaker. While many audits resulted in finally modernizing the templar kit (toppling being faster, etc) other classes received audits that surpass the balance feedback we gave prior to the new chapter. This results in a weaker class once you compare the buffs DK, Sorcs, and nightblades received as well as the kit from the necromancer.

Do you feel we addressed abilities that in the past year have been over or under performing?
- Yes and no. Some abilities are still underperforming or are clunky/outdated. For example practice incantation only recevie minor adjustment despite ultimate not having been touched since 2015 with rememberance being the superior morph. But you adjusted restoring aura while also looking into the speed/cc function of toppling. 50/50

Do you have any other general feedback?
- Templar still has no clear identity and stamplar has taken heavy nerfs while giving their identity away to stamDK.

Previous Feedback (updates in bold/strikethrough):

Templar
Aedric Spear

Burning Light: great change, needs extensive cyro testing on live however for efficiency tests. Jabs snare is still dodge able though.

Focused Charge: minimum range doesn't match other gap closers, at least ones that grant a secondary effect like lotus fan.fixed
Explosive Charge (morph): no one is using this spell for the AOE dmg. It doesnt break targets out of stealth, requires a target, is too slow, and makes your vulnerable. Niche application as a bomber build but Templar has nothing that helps to escape those situations like a nightblade can.
Toppling Charge (morph): has potential to be a great change. but has same downsides as explosive charge; most serious PVP players deslot this ability since it opens you up to being cc'd and burst. If DMG buff is to be a buff for Templar, then consistency of use must be created.faster and now has no minimum range. fixed

Piercing Javelin: dmg boost buff was weird at range, because templars lack the absolute ranged strength of sorcs to fully use this DMG boost to it's full potential. Skill audit would have shown that one of the magplar pain points is too many cc options that have too many niche applications and all contradict each other. Why run javelin when I can heal+unreflected+unblocked dMG with total dark? But I can't use total dark on cc immune targets and toppling charge becomes generic gap closer when I cast total dark first.

Puncturing Strikes: best change this patch but there's a bug as cinbri noted regarding it's efficiency on pts.

Radial Sweep: great change for range. Still misses targets due to how the hitbox is looking for those targets.
Empowering Sweep (morph): this is hard to swallow because it violates the core reasoning of this patch while increasing the main pain point of stamplar; low survivability after post-nerf of major mending under wrobel. its an AOE 2s pulse that has empower; solar barrage shares this same exact mechanic and thus is instantly redundant. It may be an ultimate, and some pve stamplars love it, but in PvP it takes away from survival for that class.

Spear Shards: good buffs for pve templar but stamplar can't use it. So it's one sided change.

Sun Shield:
.great change for seeing skills and values they bring, because it was tricking both players and devs into thinking this is a great defensive skill. But if blazing was above other options, you'd see it on every templar build and in competitive PvP applications. It doesn't defend well and it doesnt damage well; because of that it will always be replaced by something more damaging or defensive. Radiant ward is perfect for PVE tanks however but the cost increase is a nerf to them sadly. Is 9% per hit good enough for competitive pve? This ability will still find extremely niche use in PvP and it doesn't solve pve tank pain points. dmg off radiant ward is very promising, but it's 10k crits on PVE mobs which means it will only be 2k dmg after all mitigation. blazing shield is still useless

Dawn’s Wrath
Eclipse: great mechanic balance for DKs now. Tooltip Great for knowledge too in understanding how it works,but has core issue of its design rests on this cooldown. damage was originally by wrobel increased to account for this 0.75s cooldown. and to boot, healing was never increase to account for this as well. core ability still suffers in that you are giving targets cc immunity without stopping their actions and the niche applications. Other cc abilities are rendered useless if trying to make most of this spell. Hard to use with new toppling charge since you'll waste two slots for a cc immunity granting spell.

Power of the Light: pve change, while decent, only buffs pve templar healers who did not need buffs on core DPS centered abilities. Dmg loss impacts PVE stamplar and PVP stamplar looking to stretch their dmg to counter the fact their have no defense.

Solar Flare: great change on both speed and cast times. but is 37% dmg reduction worth 0.1 seconds and slightly faster shot? Snipe, receiving similar change, has only a 27% reduction on damage. In comparison, Jabs while received evasion nerfs but got buffs to compensate as well; dark flare should be buffed now that wings is 50% dmg reduction for similar reasons. With reflective light/vamp bane losing ability to be used as a spamable for both instant cast+dot for greater Dmg, dark flare feels more like a redundant ability that functions similarly to vamp bane but only useful on gank builds/zerglings and will never see application in pve. Solar barrage is great change however to help fix it mechanically.

Sun Fire: great change for server calcs, but if dark flare isnt buffed, magplar loses partially efficiency in one aspect of it's (community applied) core identity of "i can do AOE, Melee and range all in one package". Plus ability has issues granting crit buff due to requiring hits instead of cast so it's not functioning according to similar buff spells and thus missed it's chance by the team on their audits.

Restoring Light
Breath of Life: great adjustment for pvp balance. Shame other similar heals in the game don't follow this requirement of positioning and LOS walls (Sorc pet heal for example).

Cleansing Ritual: great change but weird issue with Ritual of retribution. dmg of this spell buffed with highest stat either weapon/stam but is still magic damage so CP scaling will be annoying. Extended ritual is fine as is, though stamplars aren't sitting around for this heal in highly mobile combat.

Practiced Incantation: heal percentage fix didn't really make morph attractive versus rememberance. For a defensive ult, it hasn't been updated according for the highly mobile game design intent, and both morphs haven't really been touched since 2015-2016. Another missed chance to audit to update Templar proactive defense pain point.

Restoring Aura: great change in adding zero cost while increasing duration to match ele drain. Will open up weapon optiosn slightly though major breach is too important to give up and the light attacks off destro staff punish templars looking to experiment with DW/SNB for more paladin looking characters. Possible suggestion is to add major sorcery, while not breach, will help alleviate bar space issues.

All in all, Templar will be bottom barrel compared to mag Sorc buffs, mag dk buffs, stamDK stealing stamplar identity of dot pressure/major mending identity, and necromancer. All other classes can accomplish what they need in less than it takes to setup Templar burst. conclusion still current, but recent changes have helped.

Not sure if you're speaking of stamplar or magplar, but as a magplar player, this patch basically adjusted most of the major painpoints I had with magplar.

1) Toppling charge - The minimum distance on this ability meant that you can not use it as a reliable CC. With no minimum distance, there is no requirement to slot javelin to reliably CC someone. Really hyped for this change.

2) RAT - Being forced to play as vampire was a major painpoint for me as a magplar. But RAT solves two problems with 1. Snare immunity + major expedition, this ability will be a game changer for magplars and even stamplars for specific builds.

3) Empowering/crescent sweep - The range increase from 6m to 8m is a very welcome change. The range was the one reason why I always ended up not using this ultimate. 6m was way too little, especially considering that many melee abilties are more than 6m so you would often miss it even if you use it in melee range. With 8m, it should be much more reliable when you use it in melee range.

4) Radiant aura - Making it free cost will make this ability really good in PVP. The ability already has nice passives, and now it also has a nice active effect. In PVP, this ability will be the more popular means of applying magickasteal since, you can apply it on everyone in 1 GCD. Many naysayers are saying elemental drain will be better, but I can guarantee in BGs, this will be the more popular morph.

5) Puncturing sweep - Channel time reduction is always welcome without damage reduction. Not a major change but still welcome.

6) Repentance - With necromancers coming out, this ability got meta-buffed, since you will have a **** ton of corpses providing free stam and health. This ability might even be worthwhile for magplars who make good use of their stam.


From a PVP perspective, this patch has really addressed many painpoints for magplars. I'm looking forward to playing my magplar after this patch.

You might be wrong on the sixth point. Iirc, templar's repentance and necro's corpses won't interact in any way

they should

No, they shouldn't. A Necromancer utilizing only the Intensive Mender can generate a corpse as quickly as every 4 seconds (plus 2 more every 8-9 seconds if using the Bone Armor and Skeletal Arcanist/Archer abilities) - that's way too much "free" Stam/HP for a Templar, and if he/she has multiple Necromancers on their team, it'd get really ridiculous.