Encounter Logging

Berenhir

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

code65536

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

a feature that's included in the base game, and advertised by ZOS

The logging is base game, but the analysis is done by an external third-party website unaffiliated with ZOS.

How is that any different than "Real-time combat events reported by the API is base game, but the analysis is done by a third-party addon unaffliated with ZOS."?

Shmoopy

Anyone who believes that this is going to suddenly enable players to be 'toxic' by kicking people with low DPS doesn't understand that most of the 'elitists' as they're called have the experience to know and very very easily see who isn't pulling their weight already. (Completely disregarding the added ease of it due to cmx)

KlauthWarthog

Explain again how you are going to prevent people from editing the files prior to uploading them.

Drummerx04

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

I'll applaud you for thinking outside of the box a little, but I don't see this coming in to play.

1. Your username is already public
2. No real life PII will need to be stored
3. No financial information is on the site
4. No private chat systems or comment sections need to be implemented
5. What privacy is being violated? Your dps in a dungeon? That's not private information, it's just a collection of data that has 0 meaning outside of ESO.
6. The EU may have banned memes, but they haven't banned dps meters yet.

Top tier fear mongering though!

T3hasiangod

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

No, because character data is not personal data.

eschaffn

Personally, I think this is a really good idea. World of Warcraft has this feature and it makes raiding much more enjoyable in my opinion. Not only is it interesting to see how you compare to other players, but also allows raid groups and guilds/teams to constructively analyze and improve on mistakes and rotation. As a player myself I've always wanted to be able to dive in-depth into my light attack weaving and resource management, specifically at a level not previously possible with the given addons and in-game metrics. And while I can imagine the downsides of having publicly accessible encounter logs I strongly believe the benefits outweigh the sometimes toxic nature that comes along with measuring DPS/HPS. Hopefully this opens up the ESO raiding community and perpetuates a more active and hardcore scene in the game!

Berenhir

T3hasiangod wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

No, because character data is not personal data.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/what-personal-data_en

Sorry but account names are clearly pseudonyms and as such personal data as long as people (even if it's only fellow gamers) can use this data to identify a person (even if they don't know their real name).

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

I'll applaud you for thinking outside of the box a little, but I don't see this coming in to play.

1. Your username is already public
2. No real life PII will need to be stored
3. No financial information is on the site
4. No private chat systems or comment sections need to be implemented
5. What privacy is being violated? Your dps in a dungeon? That's not private information, it's just a collection of data that has 0 meaning outside of ESO.
6. The EU may have banned memes, but they haven't banned dps meters yet.

Top tier fear mongering though!

If the data has no meaning outside of ESO or not is of no importance. (I'd say knowing with whom you raid aka. spend your free time can be quite an important information. You might not want it to be published by a third party.).

This is not about fear mongering, just a friendly hint from a legal perspective.

hedna123b14_ESO

Berenhir wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

No, because character data is not personal data.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/what-personal-data_en

Sorry but account names are clearly pseudonyms and as such personal data as long as people (even if it's only fellow gamers) can use this data to identify a person (even if they don't know their real name).

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

I'll applaud you for thinking outside of the box a little, but I don't see this coming in to play.

1. Your username is already public
2. No real life PII will need to be stored
3. No financial information is on the site
4. No private chat systems or comment sections need to be implemented
5. What privacy is being violated? Your dps in a dungeon? That's not private information, it's just a collection of data that has 0 meaning outside of ESO.
6. The EU may have banned memes, but they haven't banned dps meters yet.

Top tier fear mongering though!

If the data has no meaning outside of ESO or not is of no importance. (I'd say knowing with whom you raid aka. spend your free time can be quite an important information. You might not want it to be published by a third party.).

This is not about fear mongering, just a friendly hint from a legal perspective.

What is this babble? As by your own link:
"Personal data is any information that relates to an identified or identifiable living individual."
Please tie my game name to my real life identity...ill wait...

Berenhir

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

No, because character data is not personal data.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/what-personal-data_en

Sorry but account names are clearly pseudonyms and as such personal data as long as people (even if it's only fellow gamers) can use this data to identify a person (even if they don't know their real name).

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

I'll applaud you for thinking outside of the box a little, but I don't see this coming in to play.

1. Your username is already public
2. No real life PII will need to be stored
3. No financial information is on the site
4. No private chat systems or comment sections need to be implemented
5. What privacy is being violated? Your dps in a dungeon? That's not private information, it's just a collection of data that has 0 meaning outside of ESO.
6. The EU may have banned memes, but they haven't banned dps meters yet.

Top tier fear mongering though!

If the data has no meaning outside of ESO or not is of no importance. (I'd say knowing with whom you raid aka. spend your free time can be quite an important information. You might not want it to be published by a third party.).

This is not about fear mongering, just a friendly hint from a legal perspective.

What is this babble? As by your own link:
"Personal data is any information that relates to an identified or identifiable living individual."
Please tie my game name to my real life identity...ill wait...

The relevant term here is "identifiable". Under EU data protection law, any information that is not irreversibly anonymous (account names are not irreversibly anonymized, but can be assigned to a person by e.g.: ZOS, fellow gamers, etc.) is personal data. Furthermore, the person does not need to be identifiable by his civil name. It is sufficient that others know him by that name (which is true even for the ultimate solo player as ZOS "knows" him).

Kihra

In-game account names are treated as private data by my site and are not revealed to anyone.

.

hedna123b14_ESO

Berenhir wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

No, because character data is not personal data.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/what-personal-data_en

Sorry but account names are clearly pseudonyms and as such personal data as long as people (even if it's only fellow gamers) can use this data to identify a person (even if they don't know their real name).

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

I'll applaud you for thinking outside of the box a little, but I don't see this coming in to play.

1. Your username is already public
2. No real life PII will need to be stored
3. No financial information is on the site
4. No private chat systems or comment sections need to be implemented
5. What privacy is being violated? Your dps in a dungeon? That's not private information, it's just a collection of data that has 0 meaning outside of ESO.
6. The EU may have banned memes, but they haven't banned dps meters yet.

Top tier fear mongering though!

If the data has no meaning outside of ESO or not is of no importance. (I'd say knowing with whom you raid aka. spend your free time can be quite an important information. You might not want it to be published by a third party.).

This is not about fear mongering, just a friendly hint from a legal perspective.

What is this babble? As by your own link:
"Personal data is any information that relates to an identified or identifiable living individual."
Please tie my game name to my real life identity...ill wait...

The relevant term here is "identifiable". Under EU data protection law, any information that is not irreversibly anonymous (account names are not irreversibly anonymized, but can be assigned to a person by e.g.: ZOS, fellow gamers, etc.) is personal data. Furthermore, the person does not need to be identifiable by his civil name. It is sufficient that others know him by that name (which is true even for the ultimate solo player as ZOS "knows" him).

Yeha i have like 5 lawyer friends that work for top firms that are calling BS

idk

FatalForce wrote: »

I fully understand your point of view @anitajoneb17_ESO and I again, would very much point you back to what addons are currently available and are used by millions of people. You are being willfully ignorant here if you think that they already aren't, your simple acknowledgement of 'not caring' and unwillingness to educate yourself on the available tools currently used by millions of people means that, as far as I'm concerned, your input on this simply carries very little weight.

If you don't care about CMX, then stop being so indignant about a tool that will be used, and be very helpful, to countless other people. Similar tools exist in other games (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MVQ4ab8PRxwK7gYF#fight=2 for example), and it's about time that ZoS introduces similar features. Stop calling it part of an 'INGAME BASE OPTION' like it's something different than is available with CMX/other addons already. If anything this tool is even further removed from the game than current addons. Again, please educate yourself on what is available before you start crying wolf over something that already can be done through similar purported nefarious means but in actuality isn't.

You are worrying about DPS being easier to compare against other people, when in reality the instant, real-time, impact of this is far less than what current addons like CMX (which again, are used by MILLIONS of people) can already give you. This tool isn't going to alter someones perception of you (in the run itself) that you just queued up with, something like CMX absolutely can. If anything, you should be advocating against the existence of CMX and thus the sharing of any damage related metrics itself. To that, I wish you best of luck and politely hope you utterly fail.

I don't think there's any further point to continuing this conversation until you educate yourself on tools that are currently available, what they can do, and how they are actually used in practice.

@FatalForce Does CMX automatically share information with others? I am not talking about us being able to keybind to post our parse to chat or take a SS of our parse. I am talking about me being able to see your dps without you taking any action?

idk

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

No, because character data is not personal data.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/what-personal-data_en

Sorry but account names are clearly pseudonyms and as such personal data as long as people (even if it's only fellow gamers) can use this data to identify a person (even if they don't know their real name).

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

I'll applaud you for thinking outside of the box a little, but I don't see this coming in to play.

1. Your username is already public
2. No real life PII will need to be stored
3. No financial information is on the site
4. No private chat systems or comment sections need to be implemented
5. What privacy is being violated? Your dps in a dungeon? That's not private information, it's just a collection of data that has 0 meaning outside of ESO.
6. The EU may have banned memes, but they haven't banned dps meters yet.

Top tier fear mongering though!

If the data has no meaning outside of ESO or not is of no importance. (I'd say knowing with whom you raid aka. spend your free time can be quite an important information. You might not want it to be published by a third party.).

This is not about fear mongering, just a friendly hint from a legal perspective.

What is this babble? As by your own link:
"Personal data is any information that relates to an identified or identifiable living individual."
Please tie my game name to my real life identity...ill wait...

The relevant term here is "identifiable". Under EU data protection law, any information that is not irreversibly anonymous (account names are not irreversibly anonymized, but can be assigned to a person by e.g.: ZOS, fellow gamers, etc.) is personal data. Furthermore, the person does not need to be identifiable by his civil name. It is sufficient that others know him by that name (which is true even for the ultimate solo player as ZOS "knows" him).

Yeha i have like 5 lawyer friends that work for top firms that are calling BS

Wow, you already called 5 lawyer friends and talked about this? You are damned serous if that is what you have been doing for the past few hours.

Berenhir

Kihra wrote: »

In-game account names are treated as private data by my site and are not revealed to anyone.

.

Hey thanks for your reply. So the individual players are neither identifiable by their character names nor by their account names as long as they have not specifically given you permission to have their character and account names published on your site? Then it's probably okay with the EUGDPR.

hedna123b14_ESO

idk wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

No, because character data is not personal data.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/what-personal-data_en

Sorry but account names are clearly pseudonyms and as such personal data as long as people (even if it's only fellow gamers) can use this data to identify a person (even if they don't know their real name).

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

I'll applaud you for thinking outside of the box a little, but I don't see this coming in to play.

1. Your username is already public
2. No real life PII will need to be stored
3. No financial information is on the site
4. No private chat systems or comment sections need to be implemented
5. What privacy is being violated? Your dps in a dungeon? That's not private information, it's just a collection of data that has 0 meaning outside of ESO.
6. The EU may have banned memes, but they haven't banned dps meters yet.

Top tier fear mongering though!

If the data has no meaning outside of ESO or not is of no importance. (I'd say knowing with whom you raid aka. spend your free time can be quite an important information. You might not want it to be published by a third party.).

This is not about fear mongering, just a friendly hint from a legal perspective.

What is this babble? As by your own link:
"Personal data is any information that relates to an identified or identifiable living individual."
Please tie my game name to my real life identity...ill wait...

The relevant term here is "identifiable". Under EU data protection law, any information that is not irreversibly anonymous (account names are not irreversibly anonymized, but can be assigned to a person by e.g.: ZOS, fellow gamers, etc.) is personal data. Furthermore, the person does not need to be identifiable by his civil name. It is sufficient that others know him by that name (which is true even for the ultimate solo player as ZOS "knows" him).

Yeha i have like 5 lawyer friends that work for top firms that are calling BS

Wow, you already called 5 lawyer friends and talked about this? You are damned serous if that is what you have been doing for the past few hours.

they play eso:)

idk

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

No, because character data is not personal data.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/what-personal-data_en

Sorry but account names are clearly pseudonyms and as such personal data as long as people (even if it's only fellow gamers) can use this data to identify a person (even if they don't know their real name).

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

I'll applaud you for thinking outside of the box a little, but I don't see this coming in to play.

1. Your username is already public
2. No real life PII will need to be stored
3. No financial information is on the site
4. No private chat systems or comment sections need to be implemented
5. What privacy is being violated? Your dps in a dungeon? That's not private information, it's just a collection of data that has 0 meaning outside of ESO.
6. The EU may have banned memes, but they haven't banned dps meters yet.

Top tier fear mongering though!

If the data has no meaning outside of ESO or not is of no importance. (I'd say knowing with whom you raid aka. spend your free time can be quite an important information. You might not want it to be published by a third party.).

This is not about fear mongering, just a friendly hint from a legal perspective.

What is this babble? As by your own link:
"Personal data is any information that relates to an identified or identifiable living individual."
Please tie my game name to my real life identity...ill wait...

The relevant term here is "identifiable". Under EU data protection law, any information that is not irreversibly anonymous (account names are not irreversibly anonymized, but can be assigned to a person by e.g.: ZOS, fellow gamers, etc.) is personal data. Furthermore, the person does not need to be identifiable by his civil name. It is sufficient that others know him by that name (which is true even for the ultimate solo player as ZOS "knows" him).

Yeha i have like 5 lawyer friends that work for top firms that are calling BS

Wow, you already called 5 lawyer friends and talked about this? You are damned serous if that is what you have been doing for the past few hours.

they play eso:)

That is better as I was starting to get concerned about your wellbeing.

hedna123b14_ESO

idk wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

No, because character data is not personal data.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/what-personal-data_en

Sorry but account names are clearly pseudonyms and as such personal data as long as people (even if it's only fellow gamers) can use this data to identify a person (even if they don't know their real name).

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

I'll applaud you for thinking outside of the box a little, but I don't see this coming in to play.

1. Your username is already public
2. No real life PII will need to be stored
3. No financial information is on the site
4. No private chat systems or comment sections need to be implemented
5. What privacy is being violated? Your dps in a dungeon? That's not private information, it's just a collection of data that has 0 meaning outside of ESO.
6. The EU may have banned memes, but they haven't banned dps meters yet.

Top tier fear mongering though!

If the data has no meaning outside of ESO or not is of no importance. (I'd say knowing with whom you raid aka. spend your free time can be quite an important information. You might not want it to be published by a third party.).

This is not about fear mongering, just a friendly hint from a legal perspective.

What is this babble? As by your own link:
"Personal data is any information that relates to an identified or identifiable living individual."
Please tie my game name to my real life identity...ill wait...

The relevant term here is "identifiable". Under EU data protection law, any information that is not irreversibly anonymous (account names are not irreversibly anonymized, but can be assigned to a person by e.g.: ZOS, fellow gamers, etc.) is personal data. Furthermore, the person does not need to be identifiable by his civil name. It is sufficient that others know him by that name (which is true even for the ultimate solo player as ZOS "knows" him).

Yeha i have like 5 lawyer friends that work for top firms that are calling BS

Wow, you already called 5 lawyer friends and talked about this? You are damned serous if that is what you have been doing for the past few hours.

they play eso:)

That is better as I was starting to get concerned about your wellbeing.

Lol

NupidStoob

Have you people never played other games than ESO? It's totally normal that detailed stats are available in most games and usually you can look them up on numerous websites. Take League of Legends for example, there are loads of websites that analyze account stats in different ways for everyone to check out. If you think this is illegal maybe ask yourself how most of other games are doing it.

dazee

In b4 pugs demand you link a ESO logs of yourself doing sick dps before letting you join normal trials. This is a bad idea. its a bad idea for games which already have it and a bad idea for games which dont have it.

idk

NupidStoob wrote: »

Have you people never played other games than ESO? It's totally normal that detailed stats are available in most games and usually you can look them up on numerous websites. Take League of Legends for example, there are loads of websites that analyze account stats in different ways for everyone to check out. If you think this is illegal maybe ask yourself how most of other games are doing it.

Yes I have. Thank you for asking. I have played other games and have seen where someone had to opt in to participate in a group parse. If they did not opt in no one in the group would or could see jack. There was no quasi anonymous design. It is really a simple concept.

It is irrelevant that someone had to choose to grab the information then upload it to a website. That is a weak argument. It is also irrelevant that many of us already share our parses via combat metrix. Those arguing these points are thinking very narrowly about the game and seem willfully dismissing a majority of the players do not share their dps information with others. The arguments put forward defending the superficial anonymity built into the base design are flimsy at best.

Zos is forcing the sharing of information unless someone goes through more extraordinary steps of contacting a third party to fully opt out.

FatalForce

@idk no CMX doesn't, nor does Hodor Reflexes, nor does this tool. You have to opt to share the information (my understanding) just like you need to choose to post a parse to chat, just like you need to choose to download Hodor Reflexes and enable the damage sharing.

idk

FatalForce wrote: »

@idk no CMX doesn't, nor does Hodor Reflexes, nor does this tool. You have to opt to share the information (my understanding) just like you need to choose to post a parse to chat, just like you need to choose to download Hodor Reflexes and enable the damage sharing.

You have enjoyed calling others willfully ignorant because their opinion on this differed from yours.

This new system does share the information with anyone who enters the code to start grabbing the information then uploads it onto the website. In game a player can make it so their name does not show up, but their information is still shared.

It is easy to see there can be many situations where it would be easy to figure out the sole person who opted to not share their name.

Yes, the website developer (or something) said that on the website we can make it truly annonomous so that damage information is not shard at all. However, that is rather extraordinary and requires trusting a third party that Zos has not control over.

ZOS_BobbyWeir wrote: »

Additionally, we have added a setting located in the Combat settings menu that hides your character name from encounter logs. This means any combat events that are logged while you are present will display anonymously.

Again, not truly anonymous as many times it can be easy to figure out who chose this setting.

Below is the comment from the person who worked on the website.

Kihra wrote: »

Rustyfish101 wrote: »

Question:
Took a look at the website and it looks incredibly thought out and detailed which makes me happy and excited but one thing worries me... Is this going to be worldwide or serverwide, or only the logs you've personally saved? I'd feel uncomfortable posting a log without someone's consent if many people will be able to see it. Just because I wanted to know about something that happened during an encounter.

@Kihra perhaps you could shed some light?

In addition, the site itself supports just opting out completely and saying you don't want to ever be ranked, etc. This will be possible by either just sending an email to me through the site's contact us link asking for your character to be hidden (if say you accidentally forgot to check the box in-game), or by creating an account, claiming your character, and toggling its visibility to hidden yourself.

So lets not be willfully ignorant since this information is in this thread. This does not even begin to compare to someone choosing to share combat metrics info.

NupidStoob

idk wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

Have you people never played other games than ESO? It's totally normal that detailed stats are available in most games and usually you can look them up on numerous websites. Take League of Legends for example, there are loads of websites that analyze account stats in different ways for everyone to check out. If you think this is illegal maybe ask yourself how most of other games are doing it.

Yes I have. Thank you for asking. I have played other games and have seen where someone had to opt in to participate in a group parse. If they did not opt in no one in the group would or could see jack. There was no quasi anonymous design. It is really a simple concept.

It is irrelevant that someone had to choose to grab the information then upload it to a website. That is a weak argument. It is also irrelevant that many of us already share our parses via combat metrix. Those arguing these points are thinking very narrowly about the game and seem willfully dismissing a majority of the players do not share their dps information with others. The arguments put forward defending the superficial anonymity built into the base design are flimsy at best.

Zos is forcing the sharing of information unless someone goes through more extraordinary steps of contacting a third party to fully opt out.

I said it's not illegal and also gave an example why this is a far stretch. So I don't know why you start arguing points I never even made.

idk

NupidStoob wrote: »

idk wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

Have you people never played other games than ESO? It's totally normal that detailed stats are available in most games and usually you can look them up on numerous websites. Take League of Legends for example, there are loads of websites that analyze account stats in different ways for everyone to check out. If you think this is illegal maybe ask yourself how most of other games are doing it.

Yes I have. Thank you for asking. I have played other games and have seen where someone had to opt in to participate in a group parse. If they did not opt in no one in the group would or could see jack. There was no quasi anonymous design. It is really a simple concept.

It is irrelevant that someone had to choose to grab the information then upload it to a website. That is a weak argument. It is also irrelevant that many of us already share our parses via combat metrix. Those arguing these points are thinking very narrowly about the game and seem willfully dismissing a majority of the players do not share their dps information with others. The arguments put forward defending the superficial anonymity built into the base design are flimsy at best.

Zos is forcing the sharing of information unless someone goes through more extraordinary steps of contacting a third party to fully opt out.

I said it's not illegal and also gave an example why this is a far stretch. So I don't know why you start arguing points I never even made.

You can hide behind such a statement but you do make a very strong innuendo in the statement I quoted that seems to suggest that sharing information without a true opt out in game is fairly common.,

If that is not what you were insinuating with what I quoted then my bad. Otherwise I would be on point.

NupidStoob

idk wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

idk wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

Have you people never played other games than ESO? It's totally normal that detailed stats are available in most games and usually you can look them up on numerous websites. Take League of Legends for example, there are loads of websites that analyze account stats in different ways for everyone to check out. If you think this is illegal maybe ask yourself how most of other games are doing it.

Yes I have. Thank you for asking. I have played other games and have seen where someone had to opt in to participate in a group parse. If they did not opt in no one in the group would or could see jack. There was no quasi anonymous design. It is really a simple concept.

It is irrelevant that someone had to choose to grab the information then upload it to a website. That is a weak argument. It is also irrelevant that many of us already share our parses via combat metrix. Those arguing these points are thinking very narrowly about the game and seem willfully dismissing a majority of the players do not share their dps information with others. The arguments put forward defending the superficial anonymity built into the base design are flimsy at best.

Zos is forcing the sharing of information unless someone goes through more extraordinary steps of contacting a third party to fully opt out.

I said it's not illegal and also gave an example why this is a far stretch. So I don't know why you start arguing points I never even made.

You can hide behind such a statement but you do make a very strong innuendo in the statement I quoted that seems to suggest that sharing information without a true opt out in game is fairly common.,

If that is not what you were insinuating with what I quoted then my bad. Otherwise I would be on point.

My "insinuation" was that the notion that this would be illegal is ridiculous. Because it quite simply is ridiculous if you look at the broad gaming market. You haven't even made that point as far as I can tell though so please stop acting as if I was addressing you.

The only point you have seem to have made in the last few posts is that ZoS is forcing the sharing of information which I agree with. Contrary to you though it doesn't bother me. Numerous people have already outlined why so there was no need for me to repeat the same things.

Ashtaris

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

I disagree with your assessment.
Currently how things work is two ways:
1. Raid leads of groups trying to improve require their players to download CMX and post screenshots of their dps. If you do not post, you are usually removed from the group.
2. Raid leads of casual groups do NOT require you to show screenshots of your dps.

I have nothing against progression groups requiring their members to do progress and do whatever is needed to progress, including using such tools.
Those groups already have tools and use them, and will find this new tool very useful too.

BUT

Current casual groups don't - currently - use such tools because they don't - currently - know they exist or know it's too much to ask from ppl to install it all. But from the moment it's available IN THE BASE GAME, yes, they'll know about it and ask for it and require it. And that's where "elitism", in the bad sense of the term, will start spreading in places where it shouldn't be : casual groups.

I'll make a pretty dirty metaphor here : are firearms available all over the world ? Yes. Anyone who really wants one will get one. But if firearms were available at every grocer around the corner, many more people would have one and many more would use them. (And I'm not talking about their usefulness - or lack thereof - nor risks involved - or lack thereof - here).

I disagree with that assessment. I belong to a casual guild as one of the officers and I have heard of no plans to require anyone in our guild to use the log. If we did use the logging tool, it would be entirely voluntary and nobody would be given the axe just because they wouldn’t use it. That’s not how I or the guild operates.

FatalForce

@idk I take no joy in having to educate someone about what combat metrics is capable of doing. I do think this tool will be an incredibly valuable one, but that is just my opinion (which is just that, an opinion). Just as you have the right to think that I am getting some sort of gratification out of this (which I'm not). I would much rather be spending my time doing something else.

I think this tool would be such a QoL benefit that if I ruffle a few feathers for pointing out people's lack of knowledge then so be it. Ignorance is the simple lack of knowledge about something, that doesn't mean that person isn't intelligent, or that I'm being condescending to that person for calling them ignorant. It's simply pointing out the lack of knowledge on a topic.

To be clear, you are correct that some opinions on the matter differ from mine. That however does not change the fact that the reason I pointed out things had nothing to do with a difference of opinion, but instead had everything to do with pointing out factual truths. I have no issue with others having varying opinions; that's awesome! Best of luck to you on the forums, I for one don't expect to be back anytime soon.

Parrot1986

Love the look of this and looking forward to seeing it in action.

One question I had @Kihra is if you need to start/end an encounter log for each boss fight or can you enable for the start of a trial and end once completed and it shows individual combat events or is it combined?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's a complex issue.
(snip)
To be clear, I am sensitive with your concerns. But I think a more productive way to discuss the subject and what ZOS tool can/should do is to assess what data is already out there.

I'm snipping for clarity, but your entire post is worth the read, thanks for taking the time to write it.
You insist that all this data is already out there, if that's the case, I wonder why this should be acclaimed as a good idea from ZOS. Where's the added value ?

I'm a bit tired of explaining, but I'll go ahead with 2 examples :

See that boss in Fungal Grotto, the one with the 3 spiders that you have to kite (and if you kill them, the boss gets insanely high resistances) ? Back in the days, people would teach each other to not kill the spiders. That was the clean and fun way of doing that boss. Nowadays, people don't even know about the spiders, kill them in one blow and then complain about "other people's low DPS" because the boss takes forever to kill. That's the big downside of this increasingly DPS-centric road that ZOS seems to be choosing.

I don't know how things are in your country, but here, skiing slopes are categorized in four colors : green, blue, red and black, green being the easiest and black the most difficult. Now the type of slopes I enjoy skiing on are the blue and red ones. The black ones are too frightening and I don't have the technical level to do them safely. I don't mind that. People running black slopes are free to measure themselves and others as much as they want, if they want. And I don't mind not running black slopes. To each their own.
But if someone comes to the red or blue slopes and starts telling me that I should be skiing faster, quicker, differently and whatnot, that's where I get angry.
That's what, in my opinion, is going to happen with such a tool being officially included in the game.

You still seem to assume that everyone wants to get better and improve. I think that's wrong. I find no enjoyment in simply finding the correct rhythm to tap keys. And I believe I'm not the only one, by far.

You may be right when you say that this tool, due to the info not being available in real time, will actually be safer than the current situation. Time will tell. Meanwhile, I'll increasingly stay away from vet group content (I've been doing that for quite a while already anyway), but that's not really my choice. I feel excluded.

I think I've made my point clear enough over several posts here, so I'll leave it at that. I still, however, don't understand why ZOS goes this DPS-centric road which spreads toxicity, makes for a poorer and simplistic game experience, and shuts many players out. I don't get it, I don't get why class reps seem to support it, I just have to assume they know what they're doing...