The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Encounter Logging
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hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I literally just spoke with the person...so you are just making things up...
1. ZOS makes the decision what the default will be
2. Whoever records the fight uploads the data to website
3. Website checks the for whether the users in group chose to OPT in or OPT out, then posts the data...
1. I don't care whose decision it is. Doesn't matter to me. Default should be "disabled" and people would have to actively opt-in, that's what matters.
2. Whoever means "anyone", right ? Even if I, as a member of the group, have opted out.
3. Does that mean that, until the stuff's uploaded, I'm still 100% identifiable ? What if people decide to upload it and make it public in some other place, with no check on whether I've opted in or out ?
It's even worse than I thought.
1. Thats fine with me, but take it up with ZoS not the site maker...she has nothing to do with that
2. If you have opted out your nmame wont be displayed, but yes all data is available still
3. The site she is making respects the checkbox in game HOWEVER if I decided to make a website called: ESO NAMING AND SHAMING and did not respect that checkbox and identified everyone, then yes you COULD be exposed. However again thats something you should tell ZoS, not the site maker, as she has nothing to do with it.0 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:(snip)
If the sitemaker has changed her mind and design of the "service", then she should step up here and say it. And commit.
Anything else is blablah I heard it from my cousin whose brother-in-law takes care of the dogs of...
Talking about the sitemaker, it looks that's she's much more of a data collection professional, than a "member of the ESO community", since she's already made the data colllection sites for Warcraft, Final Fantasy and WildStar.
Can you find a comment supporting your claim that you have to send an email and/or register to OPT OUT?
Hint : in this thread.
so no quote? man...sound slike made up stuff...Rustyfish101 wrote: »Question:
Took a look at the website and it looks incredibly thought out and detailed which makes me happy and excited but one thing worries me... Is this going to be worldwide or serverwide, or only the logs you've personally saved? I'd feel uncomfortable posting a log without someone's consent if many people will be able to see it. Just because I wanted to know about something that happened during an encounter.
@Kihra perhaps you could shed some light?
Sure, as mentioned by Bobby, you'll be able to check a checkbox in-game that will cause your name to be omitted when logging. This means if someone did upload it to the Web site, it will just show up as Anonymous and have no connection to any specific character.
In addition, the site itself supports just opting out completely and saying you don't want to ever be ranked, etc. This will be possible by either just sending an email to me through the site's contact us link asking for your character to be hidden (if say you accidentally forgot to check the box in-game), or by creating an account, claiming your character, and toggling its visibility to hidden yourself.
Ok, not that I personally mind, but let me get this straight. If I take no actions what so ever in game, my presence and actions in game will be gathered, recorded with the possibility of my name and actions being publicly available on a third party website that even ranks me and my performance?
To opt out of this I need to check a box in game, then register on the third party website and there opt out of any rankings/data records being public or sending an e-mail to the author? Is this right?Edited by Idinuse on April 12, 2019 4:39PMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?7 -
majulook✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »FatalForce wrote: »@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.
What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.
For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.
My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.
The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/
This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.
The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.
Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.
Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!
Oh, so you are telling me someone in a raid I'm in can not upload my name and my performance to a website outside of ZOS to a third party without me lifting a finger to sop it?
Well then I'm mistaken.
IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.
Were did you see this? I read a statement from someone who claimed to be with the web site, that said you had to registrar with the web site or email them your character names to opt out.
After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:
1. An in game default option will OPT YOU OUT of revealing your identity in logs
2. You have to select to OPT IN.
3. Your data IS collected, but is unidentifiable, unless 11 people have it enabled and you are the 12th...however sorry to say that even without this site if 11 people have CMX and you dont, they WILL know that it is YOU dragging the group down.
I really do not care about addons like CMX. It is the I need to register with the web site, and or give them my email not to be part of this that I am against.
Your capitalizing that it shows that I am dragging down the group is the type of toxic and elitist attitude that a lot of players are worried about. Its a game, its to have fun is it not?
If you want to have fun then the group you should run with is a group that plays for fun....there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if 3 people want to compete and you want to have fun, then it is NOT the right group for you and there WILL be friction...if that is elitist then I dont even know what to say...
So were in the group tool does it have a check box to only be in a fun group?
If you want to go for competition runs, OK do so with your guild, Opt in to all the data logging you want.
Since I do not why can I just not be left out completely, and not have data sitting on a server somewhere?Si vis pacem, para bellum3 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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@Kihra I wonder if the WoW or FF community were like this when you provided the logs for them. Glad you got a warm welcome.Regarding anonymity, I have lots of options for what I can do in the report UI of my site.
At the moment, the data shows up, but the name is listed as Anonymous, and everything else is unchanged. It's important for the data to be collected for anonymous players, because the logs essentially break if data is missing. Absorbs tracking, buff tracking, etc. breaks down and doesn't really work if the data for a person who is overwriting someone else's buff is missing, for example.
For example if person A and person B both apply Minor Savagery, but B is anonymous, if B's data didn't get written out at all, the log essentially breaks.
That said, what I can show in the UI for anonymous players is flexible. I could simply exclude them from damage done/healing done tables completely while keeping buffs/debuffs intact. I could lump all anonymous players together into a single damage done bar that isn't drillable, etc. There are lots of options.Edited by Nifty2g on April 12, 2019 4:28PM#MOREORBS0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »1. Thats fine with me, but take it up with ZoS not the site maker...she has nothing to do with that
2. If you have opted out your nmame wont be displayed, but yes all data is available still
3. The site she is making respects the checkbox in game HOWEVER if I decided to make a website called: ESO NAMING AND SHAMING and did not respect that checkbox and identified everyone, then yes you COULD be exposed. However again thats something you should tell ZoS, not the site maker, as she has nothing to do with it.
Again, I'm talking about the system here, not about what belongs to ZOS and what belongs to Kirah.
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templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »FatalForce wrote: »@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.
What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.
For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.
My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.
The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/
This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.
The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.
Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.
Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!
Oh, so you are telling me someone in a raid I'm in can not upload my name and my performance to a website outside of ZOS to a third party without me lifting a finger to sop it?
Well then I'm mistaken.
IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.
Were did you see this? I read a statement from someone who claimed to be with the web site, that said you had to registrar with the web site or email them your character names to opt out.
After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:
1. An in game default option will OPT YOU OUT of revealing your identity in logs
2. You have to select to OPT IN.
3. Your data IS collected, but is unidentifiable, unless 11 people have it enabled and you are the 12th...however sorry to say that even without this site if 11 people have CMX and you dont, they WILL know that it is YOU dragging the group down.
I really do not care about addons like CMX. It is the I need to register with the web site, and or give them my email not to be part of this that I am against.
Your capitalizing that it shows that I am dragging down the group is the type of toxic and elitist attitude that a lot of players are worried about. Its a game, its to have fun is it not?
There are the people who receive participation trophies who play for fun.
Then there are the people who receive MVP who play to win.
I’m the latter. Decide which one you are. But don’t make it out like everyone is like you and only plays for fun.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Fallewarrior wrote: »@anitajoneb17_ESO you are making yourself look like a fool. If you don't like it I guess stop playing the game. You won't be missed. Many people have given elaborate answer as to why this tool won't hurt and is a good thing. You just ignore everything and keep talking nonsense.
I don't think so. I've explained in details and politely why I think that it's not such a good thing.
You answer with insults and "GTFO" ?
Oh wait... look at your sig... "Hodor" ? "Tick Tack Tormentor" ?
Enough said.
You believe it’s not a good thing. Others do. It’s okay to have differing opinions. What’s not ok is trying to enforce your mindset of thinking on everyone else and post false data just because “the website creator hasn’t said anything yet” and write off anything any endgame player says because they are endgame. Casual players have even commented on here saying they disagree with your assessmentanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I disagree with your assessment.
Currently how things work is two ways:
1. Raid leads of groups trying to improve require their players to download CMX and post screenshots of their dps. If you do not post, you are usually removed from the group.
2. Raid leads of casual groups do NOT require you to show screenshots of your dps.
I have nothing against progression groups requiring their members to do progress and do whatever is needed to progress, including using such tools.
Those groups already have tools and use them, and will find this new tool very useful too.
BUT
Current casual groups don't - currently - use such tools because they don't - currently - know they exist or know it's too much to ask from ppl to install it all. But from the moment it's available IN THE BASE GAME, yes, they'll know about it and ask for it and require it. And that's where "elitism", in the bad sense of the term, will start spreading in places where it shouldn't be : casual groups.
I'll make a pretty dirty metaphor here : are firearms available all over the world ? Yes. Anyone who really wants one will get one. But if firearms were available at every grocer around the corner, many more people would have one and many more would use them. (And I'm not talking about their usefulness - or lack thereof - nor risks involved - or lack thereof - here).
I disagree with that assessment. I belong to a casual guild as one of the officers and I have heard of no plans to require anyone in our guild to use the log. If we did use the logging tool, it would be entirely voluntary and nobody would be given the axe just because they wouldn’t use it. That’s not how I or the guild operates.
but you completely ignore them and continue to spit the same rhetoric to endgame players “you don’t know how the casual player feels” as if you yourself do. That’s a logical fallacy known as Texas Sharpshooter where you cherry-pick for your own argument and it hurts overall intellectual debate. Just agree to disagree with people and move on, in the end it’s ZOS decision regardless.
I for one think it’s the best thing to happen to this game in a long time and hope they go through with it in its current state without watering it down.Edited by templesus on April 12, 2019 4:41PM1 -
Fallewarrior✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Fallewarrior wrote: »@anitajoneb17_ESO you are making yourself look like a fool. If you don't like it I guess stop playing the game. You won't be missed. Many people have given elaborate answer as to why this tool won't hurt and is a good thing. You just ignore everything and keep talking nonsense.
I don't think so. I've explained in details and politely why I think that it's not such a good thing.
You answer with insults and "GTFO" ?
Oh wait... look at your sig... "Hodor" ? "Tick Tack Tormentor" ?
Enough said.
Yes indeed you have said enough. It's time for you to rest and maybe to some quests. Maybe that will calm you down.Hocus Pocus Grim Focus
-Fallen | TICK TOCK TORMENTERR | IMMORTAL MEMERR | GRYPHON HEART
HODOR!
Worlds First Tick Tock & Disassembly General (No death speedrun HM vHoF)
Worlds First vAS Hardmode
Worlds First Cloudrest clear, and hardmode
Worlds First Cloudrest HM Nodeathspeedrun (Gryphon Heart)
PC/EU0 -
Halke✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Fallewarrior wrote: »@anitajoneb17_ESO you are making yourself look like a fool. If you don't like it I guess stop playing the game. You won't be missed. Many people have given elaborate answer as to why this tool won't hurt and is a good thing. You just ignore everything and keep talking nonsense.
I don't think so. I've explained in details and politely why I think that it's not such a good thing.
You answer with insults and "GTFO" ?
Oh wait... look at your sig... "Hodor" ? "Tick Tack Tormentor" ?
Enough said.
Wait, I don't get it. What does his signature have to do with his argument?0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »FatalForce wrote: »@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.
What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.
For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.
My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.
The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/
This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.
The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.
Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.
Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!
Oh, so you are telling me someone in a raid I'm in can not upload my name and my performance to a website outside of ZOS to a third party without me lifting a finger to sop it?
Well then I'm mistaken.
IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.
Were did you see this? I read a statement from someone who claimed to be with the web site, that said you had to registrar with the web site or email them your character names to opt out.
After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:
1. An in game default option will OPT YOU OUT of revealing your identity in logs (or at least its up to ZoS what will be the default option)
2. You have to select in game to OPT IN.
3. Your data IS collected, but is unidentifiable, unless 11 people have it enabled and you are the 12th...however sorry to say that even without this site if 11 people have CMX and you dont, they WILL know that it is YOU dragging the group down.
4. The data is uploaded to the site, which then follows the in game checkbox so if you have OPT out selected, you wont be identified.
Hedna. I know your a bright person from years of seeing your posts in these forums. I am surprised you cannot see that there will be cases we can identify who was anonymous and identify their data if they solely issued the in game settings to opt out.3 -
Halke✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »FatalForce wrote: »@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.
What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.
For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.
My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.
The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/
This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.
The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.
Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.
Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!
Oh, so you are telling me someone in a raid I'm in can not upload my name and my performance to a website outside of ZOS to a third party without me lifting a finger to sop it?
Well then I'm mistaken.
IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.
Were did you see this? I read a statement from someone who claimed to be with the web site, that said you had to registrar with the web site or email them your character names to opt out.
After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:
1. An in game default option will OPT YOU OUT of revealing your identity in logs (or at least its up to ZoS what will be the default option)
2. You have to select in game to OPT IN.
3. Your data IS collected, but is unidentifiable, unless 11 people have it enabled and you are the 12th...however sorry to say that even without this site if 11 people have CMX and you dont, they WILL know that it is YOU dragging the group down.
4. The data is uploaded to the site, which then follows the in game checkbox so if you have OPT out selected, you wont be identified.
Hedna. I know your a bright person from years of seeing your posts in these forums. I am surprised you cannot see that there will be cases we can identify who was anonymous and identify their data if they solely issued the in game settings to opt out.
They literally said that was the case. In the quote. That you quoted. From them.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:(snip)
If the sitemaker has changed her mind and design of the "service", then she should step up here and say it. And commit.
Anything else is blablah I heard it from my cousin whose brother-in-law takes care of the dogs of...
Talking about the sitemaker, it looks that's she's much more of a data collection professional, than a "member of the ESO community", since she's already made the data colllection sites for Warcraft, Final Fantasy and WildStar.
Can you find a comment supporting your claim that you have to send an email and/or register to OPT OUT?
Hint : in this thread.
so no quote? man...sound slike made up stuff...Rustyfish101 wrote: »Question:
Took a look at the website and it looks incredibly thought out and detailed which makes me happy and excited but one thing worries me... Is this going to be worldwide or serverwide, or only the logs you've personally saved? I'd feel uncomfortable posting a log without someone's consent if many people will be able to see it. Just because I wanted to know about something that happened during an encounter.
@Kihra perhaps you could shed some light?
Sure, as mentioned by Bobby, you'll be able to check a checkbox in-game that will cause your name to be omitted when logging. This means if someone did upload it to the Web site, it will just show up as Anonymous and have no connection to any specific character.
In addition, the site itself supports just opting out completely and saying you don't want to ever be ranked, etc. This will be possible by either just sending an email to me through the site's contact us link asking for your character to be hidden (if say you accidentally forgot to check the box in-game), or by creating an account, claiming your character, and toggling its visibility to hidden yourself.
Ok, not that I personally mind, but let me get this straight. If I take no actions what so ever in game, my presence and actions in game will be gathered, recorded with the possibility of my name and actions being publicly available on a third party website that even ranks me and my performance?
To opt out of this I need to check a box in game, then register on the third party website and there opt out of any rankings/data records being public or sending an e-mail to the author? Is this right?
This isnt right. ZoS determines whether the defualt is to Opt in or opt out0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »FatalForce wrote: »@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.
What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.
For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.
My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.
The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/
This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.
The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.
Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.
Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!
Oh, so you are telling me someone in a raid I'm in can not upload my name and my performance to a website outside of ZOS to a third party without me lifting a finger to sop it?
Well then I'm mistaken.
IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.
Were did you see this? I read a statement from someone who claimed to be with the web site, that said you had to registrar with the web site or email them your character names to opt out.
After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:
1. An in game default option will OPT YOU OUT of revealing your identity in logs
2. You have to select to OPT IN.
3. Your data IS collected, but is unidentifiable, unless 11 people have it enabled and you are the 12th...however sorry to say that even without this site if 11 people have CMX and you dont, they WILL know that it is YOU dragging the group down.
I really do not care about addons like CMX. It is the I need to register with the web site, and or give them my email not to be part of this that I am against.
Your capitalizing that it shows that I am dragging down the group is the type of toxic and elitist attitude that a lot of players are worried about. Its a game, its to have fun is it not?
If you want to have fun then the group you should run with is a group that plays for fun....there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if 3 people want to compete and you want to have fun, then it is NOT the right group for you and there WILL be friction...if that is elitist then I dont even know what to say...
So were in the group tool does it have a check box to only be in a fun group?
If you want to go for competition runs, OK do so with your guild, Opt in to all the data logging you want.
Since I do not why can I just not be left out completely, and not have data sitting on a server somewhere?
The realease of the data is up to ZoS, the processing of the data is up to whoever wants to. Your data will be available either way, but you have the option of how its handled by this site's creator.0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »FatalForce wrote: »@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.
What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.
For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.
My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.
The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/
This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.
The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.
Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.
Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!
Oh, so you are telling me someone in a raid I'm in can not upload my name and my performance to a website outside of ZOS to a third party without me lifting a finger to sop it?
Well then I'm mistaken.
IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.
Were did you see this? I read a statement from someone who claimed to be with the web site, that said you had to registrar with the web site or email them your character names to opt out.
After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:
1. An in game default option will OPT YOU OUT of revealing your identity in logs (or at least its up to ZoS what will be the default option)
2. You have to select in game to OPT IN.
3. Your data IS collected, but is unidentifiable, unless 11 people have it enabled and you are the 12th...however sorry to say that even without this site if 11 people have CMX and you dont, they WILL know that it is YOU dragging the group down.
4. The data is uploaded to the site, which then follows the in game checkbox so if you have OPT out selected, you wont be identified.
Hedna. I know your a bright person from years of seeing your posts in these forums. I am surprised you cannot see that there will be cases we can identify who was anonymous and identify their data if they solely issued the in game settings to opt out.
As stated several times, that can currently be done more extensively utilizing CMX.1 -
Solinur✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
3. Does that mean that, until the stuff's uploaded, I'm still 100% identifiable ? What if people decide to upload it and make it public in some other place, with no check on whether I've opted in or out ?
One anonymization option is on ZOS side, so I think its a good assumption that your name wouldn't be in the log file if you checked that box..
Esologs, which is just a service to analyze those log files, will also offer to protect any of your data uploaded there and will allow you to specify who can see it. Of course that means you need to have an account there.
To those that are worried about this thing. What do you think about the possibility that someone streams a PUG with you on twitch without telling you ?@Solinur Pact EU - PC (Solinur: Templar - Magicka DD, Moves-like-Günther: Sorcerer - Stamina DD, Kinara Sol: Templar - Stamina DD, )
Addon Author2 -
majulook✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »FatalForce wrote: »@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.
What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.
For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.
My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.
The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/
This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.
The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.
Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.
Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!
Oh, so you are telling me someone in a raid I'm in can not upload my name and my performance to a website outside of ZOS to a third party without me lifting a finger to sop it?
Well then I'm mistaken.
IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.
Were did you see this? I read a statement from someone who claimed to be with the web site, that said you had to registrar with the web site or email them your character names to opt out.
After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:
1. An in game default option will OPT YOU OUT of revealing your identity in logs
2. You have to select to OPT IN.
3. Your data IS collected, but is unidentifiable, unless 11 people have it enabled and you are the 12th...however sorry to say that even without this site if 11 people have CMX and you dont, they WILL know that it is YOU dragging the group down.
I really do not care about addons like CMX. It is the I need to register with the web site, and or give them my email not to be part of this that I am against.
Your capitalizing that it shows that I am dragging down the group is the type of toxic and elitist attitude that a lot of players are worried about. Its a game, its to have fun is it not?
There are the people who receive participation trophies who play for fun.
Then there are the people who receive MVP who play to win.
I’m the latter. Decide which one you are. But don’t make it out like everyone is like you and only plays for fun.
Not meant to come across like that,
The point I was trying to make is Competitive play is fine OPT in to all the logging you want, Play with your guild and your friends.
But if when I want to play for fun, how do I do so the Group Tool does not have options for excluding Competitive play?
When I PUG I have no choice over who I get grouped with.
It seems that Logging will be good for competitive players, but if I want to opt out completely I cannot.
And if as I have been told in this thread "I drag down the group there will be friction" which seems like some sort of threat, but maybe not.
I just do not want a server somewhere holding this information. is that so wrong?
Si vis pacem, para bellum3 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Funnily enough that's probably the most condescending and toxic thing said in the threadanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Oh wait... look at your sig... "Hodor" ? "Tick Tack Tormentor" ?
Enough said.
#MOREORBS5 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »FatalForce wrote: »@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.
What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.
For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.
My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.
The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/
This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.
The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.
Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.
Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!
Oh, so you are telling me someone in a raid I'm in can not upload my name and my performance to a website outside of ZOS to a third party without me lifting a finger to sop it?
Well then I'm mistaken.
IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.
Were did you see this? I read a statement from someone who claimed to be with the web site, that said you had to registrar with the web site or email them your character names to opt out.
After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:
1. An in game default option will OPT YOU OUT of revealing your identity in logs (or at least its up to ZoS what will be the default option)
2. You have to select in game to OPT IN.
3. Your data IS collected, but is unidentifiable, unless 11 people have it enabled and you are the 12th...however sorry to say that even without this site if 11 people have CMX and you dont, they WILL know that it is YOU dragging the group down.
4. The data is uploaded to the site, which then follows the in game checkbox so if you have OPT out selected, you wont be identified.
Hedna. I know your a bright person from years of seeing your posts in these forums. I am surprised you cannot see that there will be cases we can identify who was anonymous and identify their data if they solely issued the in game settings to opt out.
It is the decision of ZoS to make this data available. I personally have no issue with because I am for transparency and I DO NOT believe that it will effect anything but the people that are trying to be better players..0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
@Kihra I wonder if the WoW or FF community were like this when you provided the logs for them. Glad you got a warm welcome.Regarding anonymity, I have lots of options for what I can do in the report UI of my site.
At the moment, the data shows up, but the name is listed as Anonymous, and everything else is unchanged. It's important for the data to be collected for anonymous players, because the logs essentially break if data is missing. Absorbs tracking, buff tracking, etc. breaks down and doesn't really work if the data for a person who is overwriting someone else's buff is missing, for example.
For example if person A and person B both apply Minor Savagery, but B is anonymous, if B's data didn't get written out at all, the log essentially breaks.
That said, what I can show in the UI for anonymous players is flexible. I could simply exclude them from damage done/healing done tables completely while keeping buffs/debuffs intact. I could lump all anonymous players together into a single damage done bar that isn't drillable, etc. There are lots of options.
This isn’t about what Kihra has done but what Zos has.
Zos could have placed the true opt out on their side, permitted buff data to pass through and block the rest of the data. Instead Zos chose to put this upon a third path.
Please do not make this into something else to distract from the conversation. What is being discussed has to do with Zos’ decisions, not Kihra’s contribution.3 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:(snip)
If the sitemaker has changed her mind and design of the "service", then she should step up here and say it. And commit.
Anything else is blablah I heard it from my cousin whose brother-in-law takes care of the dogs of...
Talking about the sitemaker, it looks that's she's much more of a data collection professional, than a "member of the ESO community", since she's already made the data colllection sites for Warcraft, Final Fantasy and WildStar.
Can you find a comment supporting your claim that you have to send an email and/or register to OPT OUT?
Hint : in this thread.
so no quote? man...sound slike made up stuff...Rustyfish101 wrote: »Question:
Took a look at the website and it looks incredibly thought out and detailed which makes me happy and excited but one thing worries me... Is this going to be worldwide or serverwide, or only the logs you've personally saved? I'd feel uncomfortable posting a log without someone's consent if many people will be able to see it. Just because I wanted to know about something that happened during an encounter.
@Kihra perhaps you could shed some light?
Sure, as mentioned by Bobby, you'll be able to check a checkbox in-game that will cause your name to be omitted when logging. This means if someone did upload it to the Web site, it will just show up as Anonymous and have no connection to any specific character.
In addition, the site itself supports just opting out completely and saying you don't want to ever be ranked, etc. This will be possible by either just sending an email to me through the site's contact us link asking for your character to be hidden (if say you accidentally forgot to check the box in-game), or by creating an account, claiming your character, and toggling its visibility to hidden yourself.
Ok, not that I personally mind, but let me get this straight. If I take no actions what so ever in game, my presence and actions in game will be gathered, recorded with the possibility of my name and actions being publicly available on a third party website that even ranks me and my performance?
To opt out of this I need to check a box in game, then register on the third party website and there opt out of any rankings/data records being public or sending an e-mail to the author? Is this right?
This isnt right. ZoS determines whether the defualt is to Opt in or opt out
I'm sorry hedna, but I don't care what you think or say, I need to hear it from Zos.Edited by Idinuse on April 12, 2019 4:47PMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To those that are worried about this thing. What do you think about the possibility that someone streams a PUG with you on twitch without telling you ?
It happened to me - twice. Once in a YouTube video. I asked the author to edit the video - which he did.
Second time in a Twitch stream. The streamer let me know midstream. I was kinda furious but since he told me, I let it slip.
It is, however, quite different from this system we're discussing here. Twitch or Youtube don't have a search engine registering the names appearing on videos :-)
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on April 12, 2019 4:50PM5 -
Halke✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »To those that are worried about this thing. What do you think about the possibility that someone streams a PUG with you on twitch without telling you ?
It happened to me - twice. Once in a YouTube video. I asked the author to edit the video - which he did.
Second time in a Twitch stream. The streamer let me know midstream. I was kinda furious but since he told me, I let it slip.
I stream all the time and when I am in a pug group I don't tell them and feel no need to do so.
"I let it slip" like you have any control over their life >//>0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:(snip)
If the sitemaker has changed her mind and design of the "service", then she should step up here and say it. And commit.
Anything else is blablah I heard it from my cousin whose brother-in-law takes care of the dogs of...
Talking about the sitemaker, it looks that's she's much more of a data collection professional, than a "member of the ESO community", since she's already made the data colllection sites for Warcraft, Final Fantasy and WildStar.
Can you find a comment supporting your claim that you have to send an email and/or register to OPT OUT?
Hint : in this thread.
so no quote? man...sound slike made up stuff...Rustyfish101 wrote: »Question:
Took a look at the website and it looks incredibly thought out and detailed which makes me happy and excited but one thing worries me... Is this going to be worldwide or serverwide, or only the logs you've personally saved? I'd feel uncomfortable posting a log without someone's consent if many people will be able to see it. Just because I wanted to know about something that happened during an encounter.
@Kihra perhaps you could shed some light?
Sure, as mentioned by Bobby, you'll be able to check a checkbox in-game that will cause your name to be omitted when logging. This means if someone did upload it to the Web site, it will just show up as Anonymous and have no connection to any specific character.
In addition, the site itself supports just opting out completely and saying you don't want to ever be ranked, etc. This will be possible by either just sending an email to me through the site's contact us link asking for your character to be hidden (if say you accidentally forgot to check the box in-game), or by creating an account, claiming your character, and toggling its visibility to hidden yourself.
Ok, not that I personally mind, but let me get this straight. If I take no actions what so ever in game, my presence and actions in game will be gathered, recorded with the possibility of my name and actions being publicly available on a third party website that even ranks me and my performance?
To opt out of this I need to check a box in game, then register on the third party website and there opt out of any rankings/data records being public or sending an e-mail to the author? Is this right?
This isnt right. ZoS determines whether the defualt is to Opt in or opt out
I'm sorry hedna, but I don't care what you think or say, I need to hear it from Zos.
I mean youll find out when PTS drops2 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah sure they could have, but they didn't, the tool is clearly in testing mode for the PTS and will likely receive changes. I will always fail to see what the problem is because I know that this tool is just straight up not going to affect the "average player" as it's been said in this thread, majority of them wouldn't even know it exists. It is just a fantastic tool for an in-depth look at data analysis, will help officers and gm's of guilds in high end raiding, it will help with boss mechanics, the replay system is truly amazing.
@Kihra I wonder if the WoW or FF community were like this when you provided the logs for them. Glad you got a warm welcome.Regarding anonymity, I have lots of options for what I can do in the report UI of my site.
At the moment, the data shows up, but the name is listed as Anonymous, and everything else is unchanged. It's important for the data to be collected for anonymous players, because the logs essentially break if data is missing. Absorbs tracking, buff tracking, etc. breaks down and doesn't really work if the data for a person who is overwriting someone else's buff is missing, for example.
For example if person A and person B both apply Minor Savagery, but B is anonymous, if B's data didn't get written out at all, the log essentially breaks.
That said, what I can show in the UI for anonymous players is flexible. I could simply exclude them from damage done/healing done tables completely while keeping buffs/debuffs intact. I could lump all anonymous players together into a single damage done bar that isn't drillable, etc. There are lots of options.
This isn’t about what Kihra has done but what Zos has.
Zos could have placed the true opt out on their side, permitted buff data to pass through and block the rest of the data. Instead Zos chose to put this upon a third path.
Please do not make this into something else to distract from the conversation. What is being discussed has to do with Zos’ decisions, not Kihra’s contribution.
Set your self as anonymous and be done with it. You likely will not run into people utilising this tool based on how you say you are playing#MOREORBS1 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:(snip)
If the sitemaker has changed her mind and design of the "service", then she should step up here and say it. And commit.
Anything else is blablah I heard it from my cousin whose brother-in-law takes care of the dogs of...
Talking about the sitemaker, it looks that's she's much more of a data collection professional, than a "member of the ESO community", since she's already made the data colllection sites for Warcraft, Final Fantasy and WildStar.
Can you find a comment supporting your claim that you have to send an email and/or register to OPT OUT?
Hint : in this thread.
so no quote? man...sound slike made up stuff...Rustyfish101 wrote: »Question:
Took a look at the website and it looks incredibly thought out and detailed which makes me happy and excited but one thing worries me... Is this going to be worldwide or serverwide, or only the logs you've personally saved? I'd feel uncomfortable posting a log without someone's consent if many people will be able to see it. Just because I wanted to know about something that happened during an encounter.
@Kihra perhaps you could shed some light?
Sure, as mentioned by Bobby, you'll be able to check a checkbox in-game that will cause your name to be omitted when logging. This means if someone did upload it to the Web site, it will just show up as Anonymous and have no connection to any specific character.
In addition, the site itself supports just opting out completely and saying you don't want to ever be ranked, etc. This will be possible by either just sending an email to me through the site's contact us link asking for your character to be hidden (if say you accidentally forgot to check the box in-game), or by creating an account, claiming your character, and toggling its visibility to hidden yourself.
Ok, not that I personally mind, but let me get this straight. If I take no actions what so ever in game, my presence and actions in game will be gathered, recorded with the possibility of my name and actions being publicly available on a third party website that even ranks me and my performance?
To opt out of this I need to check a box in game, then register on the third party website and there opt out of any rankings/data records being public or sending an e-mail to the author? Is this right?
This isnt right. ZoS determines whether the defualt is to Opt in or opt out
I'm sorry hedna, but I don't care what you think or say, I need to hear it from Zos.
I mean youll find out when PTS drops
Well then Zos may find something dropping from GDPR EU too, I take it.Edited by Idinuse on April 12, 2019 4:56PMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?1 -
Kihra✭✭✭FWIW, I have put over 1000 hours into ESO and have max level characters on both PC and PS4 NA that are working their way through the CP grind right now. I love this game and play it every day. It has been my primary MMO for months.
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Solinur✭✭✭Maybe a few ideas:
Couldn't the ready check system be used to inform all people that a log is going to be recorded to give ppl the opportunity to complain/decline/leave - basically react somehow?
What speaks against having the anonymity checkbox enabled per default ?
Also a note:
Depending on the implementation of the LOG on ZOS side it should be possible to parse the log file (not manually but with some program) and deanonymize players (e.g. Write them on paper and do a search and replace on "Anon" to "Solinur"). This would work if only one selected the option, but if the players can still be separated, (e.g. they are replaced by "Player 1", "Player 2", ... then with a liitle info from CMX or something that also gathers combat info you could cross reference the names).
I think in the end you will have to accept that whenever you enter a group with someone those ppl have access to waht you do in the group in one way or another like Twitch, CMX (including what else the API already tells now; CMX doesn't even show everything). Those logs will certainly widen this a bit, but only extend on what can be done already.Edited by Solinur on April 12, 2019 4:59PM@Solinur Pact EU - PC (Solinur: Templar - Magicka DD, Moves-like-Günther: Sorcerer - Stamina DD, Kinara Sol: Templar - Stamina DD, )
Addon Author1 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:(snip)
If the sitemaker has changed her mind and design of the "service", then she should step up here and say it. And commit.
Anything else is blablah I heard it from my cousin whose brother-in-law takes care of the dogs of...
Talking about the sitemaker, it looks that's she's much more of a data collection professional, than a "member of the ESO community", since she's already made the data colllection sites for Warcraft, Final Fantasy and WildStar.
Can you find a comment supporting your claim that you have to send an email and/or register to OPT OUT?
Hint : in this thread.
so no quote? man...sound slike made up stuff...Rustyfish101 wrote: »Question:
Took a look at the website and it looks incredibly thought out and detailed which makes me happy and excited but one thing worries me... Is this going to be worldwide or serverwide, or only the logs you've personally saved? I'd feel uncomfortable posting a log without someone's consent if many people will be able to see it. Just because I wanted to know about something that happened during an encounter.
@Kihra perhaps you could shed some light?
Sure, as mentioned by Bobby, you'll be able to check a checkbox in-game that will cause your name to be omitted when logging. This means if someone did upload it to the Web site, it will just show up as Anonymous and have no connection to any specific character.
In addition, the site itself supports just opting out completely and saying you don't want to ever be ranked, etc. This will be possible by either just sending an email to me through the site's contact us link asking for your character to be hidden (if say you accidentally forgot to check the box in-game), or by creating an account, claiming your character, and toggling its visibility to hidden yourself.
Ok, not that I personally mind, but let me get this straight. If I take no actions what so ever in game, my presence and actions in game will be gathered, recorded with the possibility of my name and actions being publicly available on a third party website that even ranks me and my performance?
To opt out of this I need to check a box in game, then register on the third party website and there opt out of any rankings/data records being public or sending an e-mail to the author? Is this right?
This isnt right. ZoS determines whether the defualt is to Opt in or opt out
I'm sorry hedna, but I don't care what you think or say, I need to hear it from Zos.
I mean youll find out when PTS drops
Well then Zos may find something dropping from GDPR EU too, I take it.
LMAO...my 5 lawyer friends say that anyone thinks that this violates any part of that law has no knowledge of said law0 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭FWIW, I have put over 1000 hours into ESO and have max level characters on both PC and PS4 NA that are working their way through the CP grind right now. I love this game and play it every day. It has been my primary MMO for months.
This isn't about your work Khira. And btw I've played this game since beta and have put 6.000 hrs into my main character alone. Again I personally don't mind anything about the add/service what ever it is, but that in itself is of no interest. But it's not in accordance to laws of some regions that ESO and ESO+ is sold. Apart from that it's not something currently covered by any agreement made between player and Zos and in general I think it's an unfair service to force upon unknowing players.
Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?2 -
Kihra✭✭✭Depending on the implementation of the LOG on ZOS side it should be possible to parse the log file (not manually but with some program) and deanonymize players (e.g. Write them on paper and do a search and replace on "Anon" to "Solinur"). This would work if only one selected the option, but if the players can still be separated, (e.g. they are replaced by "Player 1", "Player 2", ... then with a liitle info from CMX or something that also gathers combat info you could cross reference the names)..
While that would work to show their names in the report, for identifying characters there are other components involved, i.e., a hashed character id and the owning account name. Even if you did a search and replace to deanonymize the names, unless you know the player's hashed character id, my site would know this is not the same character and not lump any ranks etc. in with the real one.
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