Encounter Logging

anitajoneb17_ESO

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

I repeat, if you are in my group RIGHT NOW and you are a DPS I can tell EXACTLY how much damage you are doing AND in REAL TIME using CMX...so what changes?

- Automatic recording
- Public display.
- Explicit. (By this I mean that it takes some experience do know what others are doing from CMX alone. If we were grouped, maybe you could see what I'm doing, I trust you on that, but I couldn't see what you're doing. But if it's all written down black on white in the logs, then yes, even I would know what you're doing).

Imagine you're speaking a foreign language. Well enough to be understood, but still with plenty of mistakes and an horrible accent. You can still speak up to express yourself and hope noone will make a fool of you and everyone will be tolerant. You probably wouldn't, however, agree on your speech being recorded by everyone, made public and benchmarked - including in places that you don't know of. You could possibly use a recording to practice and improve privately with a teacher, but that would be your and your teacher's choice.

That's how this new system feels : being recorded, judged and exposed. That makes a lot of people legitimately uncomfortable, even those who don't speak that badly.

CMX current shows your performance to other team members - if they have some proficiency with the tool, but it doesn't get recorded, posted or otherwise displayed to anyone else (unless you screenshoot it, but that's another issue, different from being recorded systematically).

anitajoneb17_ESO

Idinuse wrote: »

Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.

It looks like there's money behind this decision. If you look at the ToS of that site, it's not community work, it's business. You have to sign in with your email address to get some sort of control over your own data. You agree to get emails of which you can't completely opt out of. You agree to personal data being collected and shared with third-parties, etc... and it's full of advertisements, cookies and trackers.

It mentions transaction and credit cards... Not sure why at this stage, but maybe there's an ulterior plan. Tinfoil hat ?

https://www.esologs.com/help/privacy

majulook

Some questions that I would like answers for

So why does a player have to jump through so many hoops to completely opt out of this?

Why not make it available to be enabled and logs players data only if the individual players that want it jump through all these hoops to enable it?

It is going to be part of base game but uses a outside web site that is not ZOS?

How much does it cost each user for this web site, and if it is truly free, then how is the site paid for?

Are they some how getting $$ for information they get?

A list valid and verified email accounts is a valuable commodity, so what other information that is gotten could also be potentially valuable and sold off?

hedna123b14_ESO

Idinuse wrote: »

FatalForce wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.

What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.

For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.

My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.

The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/

This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.

The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.

Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.

Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!

Starlock

Stuff like this makes me glad I play on console.

Idinuse

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

FatalForce wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.

What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.

For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.

My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.

The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/

This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.

The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.

Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.

Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!

Oh, so you are telling me someone in a raid I'm in can not upload my name, my performance or other data about my presence in game or actions to a website outside of ZOS to a third party whom I have no agreement or TOS signed with without me knowing about it and without me having to lift a finger to stop it?

Well then I'm mistaken. You may want to look at the link in my prev post again...

idk

majulook wrote: »

Some questions that I would like answers for

So why does a player have to jump through so many hoops to completely opt out of this?

This answer to this seems pretty simple. Since we have to go to a third party outside of Zos' control to truly opt out and Zos did not state this in the announcement that it was just something Zos did not think about could care less.

Since some of the people how have provided feedback on this directly to Zos are being dismissive of this issue it seems Zos has insulated themselves with players that are not thinking about the game as a whole.

That is based on my observation from this thread.

hedna123b14_ESO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

I repeat, if you are in my group RIGHT NOW and you are a DPS I can tell EXACTLY how much damage you are doing AND in REAL TIME using CMX...so what changes?

- Automatic recording
- Public display.
- Explicit. (By this I mean that it takes some experience do know what others are doing from CMX alone. If we were grouped, maybe you could see what I'm doing, I trust you on that, but I couldn't see what you're doing. But if it's all written down black on white in the logs, then yes, even I would know what you're doing).

Imagine you're speaking a foreign language. Well enough to be understood, but still with plenty of mistakes and an horrible accent. You can still speak up to express yourself and hope noone will make a fool of you and everyone will be tolerant. You probably wouldn't, however, agree on your speech being recorded by everyone, made public and benchmarked - including in places that you don't know of. You could possibly use a recording to practice and improve privately with a teacher, but that would be your and your teacher's choice.

That's how this new system feels : being recorded, judged and exposed. That makes a lot of people legitimately uncomfortable, even those who don't speak that badly.

CMX current shows your performance to other team members - if they have some proficiency with the tool, but it doesn't get recorded, posted or otherwise displayed to anyone else (unless you screenshoot it, but that's another issue, different from being recorded systematically).

Noone can record you, as the application maker has repeatedly stated that you have to choose for your name to be displayed. And judging by the backlash to this, im sure she will make it so that unless you choose to be exposed your name or identity cannot be tied to the numbers. The addon maker already stated that she/he is considering an option where the recorded combat log data is shown as annonymous and clumped together from all sources, meaning that if there are 4 people in the group and 3 of them are dps, but only 1 person has the public sharing enabled, the other 3 will be all be clumped together. The same way CMX does it right now. However if its a group of 4 and 3 people have it enabled, then yes they will know exactly who the 4th person is and what they do, but again thats not any different than it is now. And as far as that info being looked at by others, those people would have to:
1. Prove that it was you in the group
2. Share it manually with others

The nefarious and condescending people that you keep fearing do not exist....no one really cares enough to go out of their way to laugh at your performance...I can theorize that those people exist, but its an infinitesimal qunatity of players in this game. And i can say that as a player that has run all levels of content and has played since beta with hardcore AND casual groups. And by casual I mean groups that have trouble with normal trials...

hedna123b14_ESO

Idinuse wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

FatalForce wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.

What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.

For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.

My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.

The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/

This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.

The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.

Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.

Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!

Oh, so you are telling me someone in a raid I'm in can not upload my name and my performance to a website outside of ZOS to a third party without me lifting a finger to sop it?

Well then I'm mistaken.

IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.

anitajoneb17_ESO

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.

You're mistaken here. In the CURRENT state of things and the infos we have, our names will be recorded and displayed by default, and "anonymizing" ourselves will require active steps both ingame and on the site - including signing in with a confirmed email address, sending an email to the administrator, and whatnot.

I'm confident this will be changed - but not overly confident. But as of now, that's what it is.

Idinuse

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

FatalForce wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.

What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.

For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.

My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.

The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/

This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.

The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.

Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.

Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!

Oh, so you are telling me someone in a raid I'm in can not upload my name and my performance to a website outside of ZOS to a third party without me lifting a finger to sop it?

Well then I'm mistaken.

IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.

And you are screaming at me that I "[have] no idea how the tool works"?
Ok.

majulook

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

FatalForce wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.

What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.

For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.

My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.

The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/

This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.

The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.

Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.

Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!

Oh, so you are telling me someone in a raid I'm in can not upload my name and my performance to a website outside of ZOS to a third party without me lifting a finger to sop it?

Well then I'm mistaken.

IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.

Were did you see this? I read a statement from someone who claimed to be with the web site, that said you had to registrar with the web site or email them your character names to opt out.

Masel

Idinuse wrote: »

FatalForce wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.

What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.

For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.

My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.

The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/

This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.

The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.

Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.

I have never expressed an attitude against the average player on this thread. I have never said the tool cannot be optional. I have never said I want everyone to be forced to have their data collected. Rethink what you said there and then come back.


All I said is that this tool does not change anything. Addons that are already ingame are much more harmful in the way you describe because they work in real time, this one does NOT. Theres no sniffy attitude here. I provided reasonable arguments for why it will not change much (if anything at all) for everyone who doesnt want to use it, but it is a benefit for everyone who wants to use it.

anitajoneb17_ESO

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Noone can record you, as the application maker has repeatedly stated that you have to choose for your name to be displayed.

You're wrong here. The software will record everything as long as someone in the group tells it to. Whether others agree or not. It will replace your name with "anonymous" - but only if you've actively unchecked a checkbox somewhere.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

The addon maker already stated that she/he is considering an option where the recorded combat log data is shown as annonymous and clumped together from all sources, meaning that if there are 4 people in the group and 3 of them are dps, but only 1 person has the public sharing enabled, the other 3 will be all be clumped together.

At this stage that's a wish, not a plan.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

the same way CMX does it right now.

CMX doesn't record, CMX doesnt publish.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

The nefarious and condescending people that you keep fearing do not exist....no one really cares enough to go out of their way to laugh at your performance...

My experience tells otherwise. And I, too, have done an awful lot of group content, both with casuals and less casuals.

hedna123b14_ESO

majulook wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

FatalForce wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.

What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.

For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.

My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.

The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/

This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.

The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.

Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.

Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!

Oh, so you are telling me someone in a raid I'm in can not upload my name and my performance to a website outside of ZOS to a third party without me lifting a finger to sop it?

Well then I'm mistaken.

IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.

Were did you see this? I read a statement from someone who claimed to be with the web site, that said you had to registrar with the web site or email them your character names to opt out.

After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:
1. An in game default option will OPT YOU OUT of revealing your identity in logs (or at least its up to ZoS what will be the default option)
2. You have to select in game to OPT IN.
3. Your data IS collected, but is unidentifiable, unless 11 people have it enabled and you are the 12th...however sorry to say that even without this site if 11 people have CMX and you dont, they WILL know that it is YOU dragging the group down.
4. The data is uploaded to the site, which then follows the in game checkbox so if you have OPT out selected, you wont be identified.

hedna123b14_ESO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.

You're mistaken here. In the CURRENT state of things and the infos we have, our names will be recorded and displayed by default, and "anonymizing" ourselves will require active steps both ingame and on the site - including signing in with a confirmed email address, sending an email to the administrator, and whatnot.

I'm confident this will be changed - but not overly confident. But as of now, that's what it is.

I dont know where you got this info, but it is plain false...I just spoke to the person in charge of the site...

anitajoneb17_ESO

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:(snip)

If the sitemaker has changed her mind and design of the "service", then she should step up here and say it. And commit.
Anything else is blablah I heard it from my cousin whose brother-in-law takes care of the dogs of...

Talking about the sitemaker, it looks that's she's much more of a data collection professional, than a "member of the ESO community", since she's already made the data colllection sites for Warcraft, Final Fantasy and WildStar.

Idinuse

Masel wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

FatalForce wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.

What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.

For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.

My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.

The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/

This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.

The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.

Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.

I have never expressed an attitude against the average player on this thread. I have never said the tool cannot be optional. I have never said I want everyone to be forced to have their data collected. Rethink what you said there and then come back.


All I said is that this tool does not change anything. Addons that are already ingame are much more harmful in the way you describe because they work in real time, this one does NOT. Theres no sniffy attitude here. I provided reasonable arguments for why it will not change much (if anything at all) for everyone who doesnt want to use it, but it is a benefit for everyone who wants to use it.

None of the existing tools gather and publicly make available who you are, that you are playing, and what you have been doing in the game and submitted to a third party outside Zos and all agreements players have with Zos, unless you take a picture of it and post it here on the forums which is a TOS violation... Do you get where I'm going here? I don't think you get the privacy laws dilemma here. The elitist bully part is inevitable by existing adds and without them, I'm sure console players have stories too, we can keep it separate from the privacy data gathering issue if you want.

hedna123b14_ESO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Noone can record you, as the application maker has repeatedly stated that you have to choose for your name to be displayed.

You're wrong here. The software will record everything as long as someone in the group tells it to. Whether others agree or not. It will replace your name with "anonymous" - but only if you've actively unchecked a checkbox somewhere.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

The addon maker already stated that she/he is considering an option where the recorded combat log data is shown as annonymous and clumped together from all sources, meaning that if there are 4 people in the group and 3 of them are dps, but only 1 person has the public sharing enabled, the other 3 will be all be clumped together.

At this stage that's a wish, not a plan.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

the same way CMX does it right now.

CMX doesn't record, CMX doesnt publish.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

The nefarious and condescending people that you keep fearing do not exist....no one really cares enough to go out of their way to laugh at your performance...

My experience tells otherwise. And I, too, have done an awful lot of group content, both with casuals and less casuals.

I literally just spoke with the person...so you are just making things up...
1. ZOS makes the decision what the default will be
2. Whoever records the fight uploads the data to website
3. Website checks the for whether the users in group chose to OPT in or OPT out, then posts the data...

Not sure how else to put it...this was straight from the source...

hedna123b14_ESO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:(snip)

If the sitemaker has changed her mind and design of the "service", then she should step up here and say it. And commit.
Anything else is blablah I heard it from my cousin whose brother-in-law takes care of the dogs of...

Talking about the sitemaker, it looks that's she's much more of a data collection professional, than a "member of the ESO community", since she's already made the data colllection sites for Warcraft, Final Fantasy and WildStar.

Can you find a comment supporting your claim that you have to send an email and/or register to OPT OUT?

majulook

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

FatalForce wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.

What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.

For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.

My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.

The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/

This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.

The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.

Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.

Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!

Oh, so you are telling me someone in a raid I'm in can not upload my name and my performance to a website outside of ZOS to a third party without me lifting a finger to sop it?

Well then I'm mistaken.

IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.

Were did you see this? I read a statement from someone who claimed to be with the web site, that said you had to registrar with the web site or email them your character names to opt out.

After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:
1. An in game default option will OPT YOU OUT of revealing your identity in logs
2. You have to select to OPT IN.
3. Your data IS collected, but is unidentifiable, unless 11 people have it enabled and you are the 12th...however sorry to say that even without this site if 11 people have CMX and you dont, they WILL know that it is YOU dragging the group down.

I really do not care about addons like CMX. It is the I need to register with the web site, and or give them my email not to be part of this that I am against.

Your capitalizing that it shows that I am dragging down the group is the type of toxic and elitist attitude that a lot of players are worried about. Its a game, its to have fun is it not?

hedna123b14_ESO

On page 2 of this thread you see:

"Sure, as mentioned by Bobby, you'll be able to check a checkbox in-game that will cause your name to be omitted when logging. This means if someone did upload it to the Web site, it will just show up as Anonymous and have no connection to any specific character.

In addition, the site itself supports just opting out completely and saying you don't want to ever be ranked, etc. This will be possible by either just sending an email to me through the site's contact us link asking for your character to be hidden (if say you accidentally forgot to check the box in-game), or by creating an account, claiming your character, and toggling its visibility to hidden yourself."

What the site owner failed to state is that this checkbox being defaulted to OPT OUT or OPT IN has nothing to do with her. It is whatever ZoS decides it to be. If ZoS decided that OPT IN is default, then it will be their decision. If they decide that OPT OUT is the default, then again it is THEIR decision. She has nothing to do with that decision. she simply has developed a tool that makes use of whatever is in that checked box.

The benefits of this tool outside of raid management is that the data is displayed in an organized way for ZoS to look at when gauging class performance, ability performance and overall balance of the game...

anitajoneb17_ESO

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:(snip)

If the sitemaker has changed her mind and design of the "service", then she should step up here and say it. And commit.
Anything else is blablah I heard it from my cousin whose brother-in-law takes care of the dogs of...

Talking about the sitemaker, it looks that's she's much more of a data collection professional, than a "member of the ESO community", since she's already made the data colllection sites for Warcraft, Final Fantasy and WildStar.

Can you find a comment supporting your claim that you have to send an email and/or register to OPT OUT?

Hint : in this thread.

hedna123b14_ESO

majulook wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

FatalForce wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO I really think you don't comprehend the tools that are currently available and well known by the majority of raid leaders. Look at this addon, Hodor Reflexes - DPS & Ultimate Share; it allows you to recreate an entire group damage share by having each person individually broadcast their own damage whilst collecting information from others in the group. It's not a new concept, but the current best option to do so. This won't change anyone from forcing anyone else to report damage; if anything this tool is less oppressive in that regard because it requires someone to go look outside the game where as the damage share addons are available for immediate viewing in the game itself.

What you are advocating is essentially the blocking of any damage information from being transmitted at all; and frankly I think this is willfully ignorant of other peoples goals and desires in the game. It really feels like you simply want to be upset for the sole purpose of being upset.

For many end game raiders it doesn't take a damage share addon to know that doing a boss you normally can do in 30 seconds is now taking 4 minutes to know the group damage is low.

My god what an elitist tone you have in your condescending attitude to anyone not interested in the elitist circle jerking and e-peen measuring.

The tools that exist are perfectly suitable for raids and players to improve. Publicly making private in game data, or even gathering it, about a player (actions taken, damage or hot done) or absence there of public must be some sort of privacy breach that needs to be looked at imo. This sort of data gathering about a player does not fall in good soil with EU law without it being opting in, I can tell you that. https://www.gdpreu.org/compliance/fines-and-penalties/

This kind of "service" needs to be consciously enabled by choice. The rest of the elite PvE community can continue using CMX and Hodor addons or just make the optimal e-peen measure/bully generator add for yourselves and keep using it without forcing it upon the entire player base.

The attitude of the Class Representatives and the sniffy attitude towards the average (and majority) player makes me think I understand some strange balancing decisions lately.

Considering how serious Zos is in regards of "naming and shaming" and publicly making a name appear in screenshots and vid caps here on a Forum you need an invite to join, and then making something like this publicly available is, as I see it, rather mind blowing.

Here is an example who has no idea how the tool works making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims. YOU GET A GOLD STAR!

Oh, so you are telling me someone in a raid I'm in can not upload my name and my performance to a website outside of ZOS to a third party without me lifting a finger to sop it?

Well then I'm mistaken.

IT WONT IDENTIFY YOU BY NAME UNLESS YOU LET IT and to let it you have to go in and register. Which is my understanding. While ALL data is collected, ONLY the data that is allowed to be public is made public. This is my understanding of it.

Were did you see this? I read a statement from someone who claimed to be with the web site, that said you had to registrar with the web site or email them your character names to opt out.

After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:
1. An in game default option will OPT YOU OUT of revealing your identity in logs
2. You have to select to OPT IN.
3. Your data IS collected, but is unidentifiable, unless 11 people have it enabled and you are the 12th...however sorry to say that even without this site if 11 people have CMX and you dont, they WILL know that it is YOU dragging the group down.

I really do not care about addons like CMX. It is the I need to register with the web site, and or give them my email not to be part of this that I am against.

Your capitalizing that it shows that I am dragging down the group is the type of toxic and elitist attitude that a lot of players are worried about. Its a game, its to have fun is it not?

If you want to have fun then the group you should run with is a group that plays for fun....there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if 3 people want to compete and you want to have fun, then it is NOT the right group for you and there WILL be friction...if that is elitist then I dont even know what to say...

hedna123b14_ESO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

After extensively speaking with the site's maker here is the breakdown:(snip)

If the sitemaker has changed her mind and design of the "service", then she should step up here and say it. And commit.
Anything else is blablah I heard it from my cousin whose brother-in-law takes care of the dogs of...

Talking about the sitemaker, it looks that's she's much more of a data collection professional, than a "member of the ESO community", since she's already made the data colllection sites for Warcraft, Final Fantasy and WildStar.

Can you find a comment supporting your claim that you have to send an email and/or register to OPT OUT?

Hint : in this thread.

so no quote? man...sound slike made up stuff...

anitajoneb17_ESO

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

The benefits of this tool outside of raid management is that the data is displayed in an organized way for ZoS to look at when gauging class performance, ability performance and overall balance of the game...

LoL... you don't think ZOS can extract this data by themselves, in whatever organized way they want... ? LFMAO.

hedna123b14_ESO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

The benefits of this tool outside of raid management is that the data is displayed in an organized way for ZoS to look at when gauging class performance, ability performance and overall balance of the game...

LoL... you don't think ZOS can extract this data by themselves, in whatever organized way they want... ? LFMAO.

They can and they have...this is a tool that allows players to look at this data in an organized way, which will obviously open new avenues for ZoS, because players will be more educated on issues with balance and thus will be able to provide more constructive feedback to ZoS.

Fallewarrior

@anitajoneb17_ESO you are making yourself look like a fool. If you don't like it I guess stop playing the game. You won't be missed. Many people have given elaborate answer as to why this tool won't hurt and is a good thing. You just ignore everything and keep talking nonsense.

anitajoneb17_ESO

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

I literally just spoke with the person...so you are just making things up...
1. ZOS makes the decision what the default will be
2. Whoever records the fight uploads the data to website
3. Website checks the for whether the users in group chose to OPT in or OPT out, then posts the data...

1. I don't care whose decision it is. Doesn't matter to me. Default should be "disabled" and people would have to actively opt-in, that's what matters.
2. Whoever means "anyone", right ? Even if I, as a member of the group, have opted out.
3. Does that mean that, until the stuff's uploaded, I'm still 100% identifiable ? What if people decide to upload it and make it public in some other place, with no check on whether I've opted in or out ?

It's even worse than I thought.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Fallewarrior wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO you are making yourself look like a fool. If you don't like it I guess stop playing the game. You won't be missed. Many people have given elaborate answer as to why this tool won't hurt and is a good thing. You just ignore everything and keep talking nonsense.

I don't think so. I've explained in details and politely why I think that it's not such a good thing.
You answer with insults and "GTFO" ?
Oh wait... look at your sig... "Hodor" ? "Tick Tack Tormentor" ?

Enough said.