Encounter Logging

anitajoneb17_ESO

@majulook : thank you very much for sharing your in-depth look at the logs. Knowing that your @name and char name doesn't show anywhere since you were set to "anonymous" is already very good news.

And yes, you don't have to be grouped to be logged. That was clear to me... that's why it really needs to be anonymous by default, since so many players will think it's a group thing only.

Turelus

majulook wrote: »

I looking through the log found that it that picked up another player that was in the area. This player was not anonymous and shows a @name and what I believe is character name which if they were not anonymous it should show.

I was not in a group, and it picked him up, which I did not realize was possible as I thought it was a a group only tool. I looked back through the threads and yep, it is stated that logger will pickup anyone around the person using the logging process.

Just be sure if you do not want to have your @name or character name picked up by the logging process set yourself to anonymous.

This alone is why it needs to be opt in and not opt out... It blows my mind that ZOS isn't aware of how some people won't want their names tagged into sites without even knowing it's happening.

Kihra

Catching up here, I just want to say that ESO Logs could ultimately choose a different default behavior than the ZoS checkbox.

As a reminder, everything is private on ESO Logs on the PTS, so at the moment I'm just reading the threads and listening to feedback. There will not be any public rankings or character searching for some time still.

Once you have a log format available like this, multiple tools will evolve that parse the log format (e.g., ACT), so in my opinion the focus as far as constructive feedback should be on what you'd like the in-game default behavior to be.

Even if I choose to contradict the in-game default behavior, another tool might not, so if you have an opinion one way or another about anonymity, it should probably be focused on that.

Ydrisselle

majulook wrote: »

So on PTS I made myself a template character, set them to Anonymous found a place that had so bad guys, started the log process, and started fighting stuff for few minutes, and ended the logging process.

I started looking at the log, could not find any identifiable info like my @name or character name This is good anonymous works as it is supposed. I did see my class since the log shows my gear and abilities.

I looking through the log found that it that picked up another player that was in the area. This player was not anonymous and shows a @name and what I believe is character name which if they were not anonymous it should show.

I was not in a group, and it picked him up, which I did not realize was possible as I thought it was a a group only tool. I looked back through the threads and yep, it is stated that logger will pickup anyone around the person using the logging process.

Just be sure if you do not want to have your @name or character name picked up by the logging process set yourself to anonymous.

I will most likely use this or be in a group that wants to use it at some point.

IMHO (and that's all this my opinion) this tool needs to be set to Anonymous by default.

Note:

Almost all of the info in the log is strings of info like the following snippets of my info that was logged, you can see one of the named monster that I fought and the ability they used against me. ALL of the below snippets are of the log prior to the added player :


4055,ABILITY_INFO,46356,"Force Pulse","/esoui/art/icons/ability_destructionstaff_001b.dds",T,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,117637,"Ricochet Skull","/esoui/art/icons/ability_necromancer_001_b.dds",F,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,117919,"Hexproof","/esoui/art/icons/ability_necromancer_014_a.dds",F,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,118623,"Deaden Pain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_necromancer_011_a.dds",F,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,118008,"Mystic Siphon","/esoui/art/icons/ability_necromancer_005_a.dds",F,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,122388,"Glacial Colossus","/esoui/art/icons/ability_necromancer_006_a.dds",F,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,39167,"Storm Pulsar","/esoui/art/icons/ability_destructionstaff_009_b.dds",T,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,118912,"Spirit Guardian","/esoui/art/icons/ability_necromancer_015_a.dds",F,T
4055,ABILITY_INFO,118279,"Ravenous Goliath","/esoui/art/icons/ability_necromancer_012_b.dds",F,T


[CHEST,149281,T,16,ARMOR_DIVINES,LEGENDARY,440,MAGICKA,T,16,LEGENDARY],
[MAIN_HAND,150029,T,16,WEAPON_PRECISE,LEGENDARY,444,ABSORB_MAGICKA,T,16,LEGENDARY],


5580,COMBAT_EVENT,HOT_TICK,GENERIC,MAGICKA,0,5677,3315959,34836,5533,17150/17150,40102/40102,12389/12389,411/500,0/1000,0,0.6406,0.2403,1.6157,*
6018,UNIT_ADDED,5479,MONSTER,F,0,88412,F,0,0,"Euraxian Knight","",0,50,160,0,HOSTILE,F
6018,ABILITY_INFO,34646,"Lava Whip","/esoui/art/icons/ability_dragonknight_001.dds",F,T
6018,BEGIN_CAST,1800,F,3318063,34646,5479,34501/34501,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.6582,0.2587,0.9362,1,20609/20609,40767/40767,14130/15567,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6575,0.2582,3.4591
6252,COMBAT_EVENT,ABILITY_ON_COOLDOWN,FIRE,INVALID,0,0,4294967295,117637,1,20609/20609,40767/40767,14130/15567,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6575,0.2582,4.0086,*

Thank you for the quick test! You've just proved why this option should be set for Anonymous by default.

Varana

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

it will make no difference if you set ur self to Anonymous ur stats still go up and if 11 in the group are set to be seen it does not take a lot to work out or if its healing a there is olny 2 healers

For the group, yes. But they see that anyway while playing, and "I didn't fulfil my role but don't want the rest of the group to know" is not really fair, tbh.
But outside viewers or the site's statistics, they have no way of knowing that it was you who was that person, and not anyone else. They see "the second healer didn't really heal very much" but can't trace that back to you.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Kihra wrote: »

Catching up here, I just want to say that ESO Logs could ultimately choose a different default behavior than the ZoS checkbox.

As a reminder, everything is private on ESO Logs on the PTS, so at the moment I'm just reading the threads and listening to feedback. There will not be any public rankings or character searching for some time still.

Once you have a log format available like this, multiple tools will evolve that parse the log format (e.g., ACT), so in my opinion the focus as far as constructive feedback should be on what you'd like the in-game default behavior to be.

Even if I choose to contradict the in-game default behavior, another tool might not, so if you have an opinion one way or another about anonymity, it should probably be focused on that.

First of all, I'd like to thank you for listening to us, even if some of what you read - incl. from me - may sound utterly ungrateful. I hope you understand my/our concerns. It may be different, or equivalent, to your experience with the WoW or FF communities, but it is what it is.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. From what I know at this point, if I'm set to "anonymous", my name and ID do not show up in the log file, and if I'm not, my name shows up. Going from there, everything depends upon what your site does with that log (regardless of who uploads it). We'd have to trust you on that, but assuming we do, what is it that you'd do if someone had their name showing up and didn't want ? What options would you offer ? Would those options be by default or would they require us to sign up ? ... ?

Kihra

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. From what I know at this point, if I'm set to "anonymous", my name and ID do not show up in the log file,

I'm saying that I could choose, for example, to treat the log file as though it had nothing but anonymous names by default, and only reveal names if someone signed up and claimed their characters on the site and opted in to being revealed.

The reason I say the focus should be on the in-game default, though, is that even if I do that, some other tool could come along and do something completely different.

There will almost certainly be an ACT plug-in developed for this log format for example. https://advancedcombattracker.com

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

Varana wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

it will make no difference if you set ur self to Anonymous ur stats still go up and if 11 in the group are set to be seen it does not take a lot to work out or if its healing a there is olny 2 healers

For the group, yes. But they see that anyway while playing, and "I didn't fulfil my role but don't want the rest of the group to know" is not really fair, tbh.
But outside viewers or the site's statistics, they have no way of knowing that it was you who was that person, and not anyone else. They see "the second healer didn't really heal very much" but can't trace that back to you.

the point i mean it should be an option to download and not part of the base game and not an automatic opt in, this should have not been foisted upon peeps, a poll should have been done on the forum to see if enough want and say when 70% of the population said yes then it was added to the base game, the way they have gone about it is wrong

Seri

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Seri wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

wow what a way to go Zos i tried to think you where not stupid this will be misused all that will happen is the raid leader after the trail will go to site and then ban peeps from their raids

Dunno about you, but if someone's gonna be a <bleep> about that, it's not really a run I'd want to be in anyway. The good raid leads are going to be the ones that either don't care as long as group performance is good enough, or the expectation of the guild is everyone should try and improve (and so it'll be used as a teaching tool).

i agree with you on not wanting to be a part of that group, but disagree as using it as a teaching tool, around 50% of the game does 15-20k dps and they will single out and made to feel small, as i pointed out to someone else in here they may have a condition like poor vision or missing finger that makes it hard for them to get high dps etc. This will be used since casual raids or guilds no longer are in eso, but a few of my friends have set up a discord guild with the aim to do this content with no skill, gear or add requirements, within in a week we have done all craglorn trails, to prove the point things like this addition to the game is not need, but this will be used by every guild out there, all i to say is all guilds out there make you use certain add ons, like combat meterics and raid noitifier, so yes they will make peeps use this feature

In that case, Guild #1 in my list must be my imagination. They run weekly, do a mix of non-vet and vet trials, and have no dps discimination. We've run together so long everyone knows what each is capable of. Not everyone has CMX (but most have Raid Notifier because it makes it easier for them, especially for few people in our group that have an existing condition as it makes it easier for them).

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

it will make no difference if you set ur self to Anonymous ur stats still go up and if 11 in the group are set to be seen it does not take a lot to work out or if its healing a there is olny 2 healers

For the group, yes. But they see that anyway while playing, and "I didn't fulfil my role but don't want the rest of the group to know" is not really fair, tbh.
But outside viewers or the site's statistics, they have no way of knowing that it was you who was that person, and not anyone else. They see "the second healer didn't really heal very much" but can't trace that back to you.

the point i mean it should be an option to download and not part of the base game and not an automatic opt in, this should have not been foisted upon peeps, a poll should have been done on the forum to see if enough want and say when 70% of the population said yes then it was added to the base game, the way they have gone about it is wrong

There seems to be this concern about some anonymous stats going on a website, because the rest of the group will know it's you. Trust me - the other people in the group that actually would look at this tool are the same people that already have combat metrics, and they already know if you're doing your job or not. If you're my trial co-healer, I know pretty quickly if you're applying buffs/debuffs, casting enough orbs, etc, because I can literally watch you cast skills in real-time (as opposed to this 'after the fact' logging + upload). After you do one trial with them they'll already have decided whether or not they would run with you again, give a 2nd chance, or blacklist.

As for anyone _not_ in the group, then as mentioned, they have absolutely no idea who was in that group. Or if they ask someone else who they know in the group, it's not hard to also ask 'how did they go?'.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

Seri wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Seri wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

wow what a way to go Zos i tried to think you where not stupid this will be misused all that will happen is the raid leader after the trail will go to site and then ban peeps from their raids

Dunno about you, but if someone's gonna be a <bleep> about that, it's not really a run I'd want to be in anyway. The good raid leads are going to be the ones that either don't care as long as group performance is good enough, or the expectation of the guild is everyone should try and improve (and so it'll be used as a teaching tool).

i agree with you on not wanting to be a part of that group, but disagree as using it as a teaching tool, around 50% of the game does 15-20k dps and they will single out and made to feel small, as i pointed out to someone else in here they may have a condition like poor vision or missing finger that makes it hard for them to get high dps etc. This will be used since casual raids or guilds no longer are in eso, but a few of my friends have set up a discord guild with the aim to do this content with no skill, gear or add requirements, within in a week we have done all craglorn trails, to prove the point things like this addition to the game is not need, but this will be used by every guild out there, all i to say is all guilds out there make you use certain add ons, like combat meterics and raid noitifier, so yes they will make peeps use this feature

In that case, Guild #1 in my list must be my imagination. They run weekly, do a mix of non-vet and vet trials, and have no dps discimination. We've run together so long everyone knows what each is capable of. Not everyone has CMX (but most have Raid Notifier because it makes it easier for them, especially for few people in our group that have an existing condition as it makes it easier for them).

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

it will make no difference if you set ur self to Anonymous ur stats still go up and if 11 in the group are set to be seen it does not take a lot to work out or if its healing a there is olny 2 healers

For the group, yes. But they see that anyway while playing, and "I didn't fulfil my role but don't want the rest of the group to know" is not really fair, tbh.
But outside viewers or the site's statistics, they have no way of knowing that it was you who was that person, and not anyone else. They see "the second healer didn't really heal very much" but can't trace that back to you.

the point i mean it should be an option to download and not part of the base game and not an automatic opt in, this should have not been foisted upon peeps, a poll should have been done on the forum to see if enough want and say when 70% of the population said yes then it was added to the base game, the way they have gone about it is wrong

There seems to be this concern about some anonymous stats going on a website, because the rest of the group will know it's you. Trust me - the other people in the group that actually would look at this tool are the same people that already have combat metrics, and they already know if you're doing your job or not. If you're my trial co-healer, I know pretty quickly if you're applying buffs/debuffs, casting enough orbs, etc, because I can literally watch you cast skills in real-time (as opposed to this 'after the fact' logging + upload). After you do one trial with them they'll already have decided whether or not they would run with you again, give a 2nd chance, or blacklist.

As for anyone _not_ in the group, then as mentioned, they have absolutely no idea who was in that group. Or if they ask someone else who they know in the group, it's not hard to also ask 'how did they go?'.

combat metrics only shows group stats not each person stats so its not the same thing

Navarril

Kihra wrote: »

In-game account names are treated as private data by my site and are not revealed to anyone.

.

I don't want my data on your damn website, identifiable or not. This is pure ***.

Navarril

Fallewarrior wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO you are making yourself look like a fool. If you don't like it I guess stop playing the game. You won't be missed. Many people have given elaborate answer as to why this tool won't hurt and is a good thing. You just ignore everything and keep talking nonsense.

Oh look! It's a one-percenter trying to be polite!

peacenote

Baertram wrote: »

Yep, I'm not afraid of sharing my data IF I ALLOW TO AND ENABLE IT!
I don't care about a games dmg or healing I do and if players decide to not allow me to participate because of that. Their choice, others won't complain and have fun.

But I'm afraid of letting the game collect all the data and sahre it, even if I turn on a checkbox (which should be on by default!), and just will write "anonymous" into the collected data instead of fully suppressing my data if I opt-out.
And then someone else just will use the created txt file and rename anonymous again with my charactername, or even my account name, upload it somehwere which does not officially belong to ZOs.
And there is 1 guy alone for several servers and thousands of users, who needs to
1. get an email where I need to proof these are my characters and I do not want them to be shared online
2. I need to create and account to opt-out the characters once again
1 guy for maybe thousands of complaints. So I need to wait for weeks? And I need to tell this website my characternames or they gu via email? Why not the other way around?

Uploading this data shuld somehow be only accepted if all participating users allowed so in advance, and not afterwards.


I'm not against this tool and idea at all. But teh way it is done currently is not correct.
I'd even like to share my data with ppl I trust and play often with, no problem. But not with every rnd group.
And it's not about the reason of dmg output and fears others might not accept my playstyle.
ESO is very different and I love how you can play and achieve the things in totally different ways and approaches.
It's just because I do not want to see every fgiht of me, even if its "anonymous" on other users logfiles + maybe in the www at some webpages. This is MY decision, or at least I SHOULD BE ABLE to fully decide and control this. Not everyone else, including ZOs or even externals volunteers.

This is... a really good point.

I am aware of the current tools available. I've played MMOs for a long time so I can deal with jerks calling me out on my playstyle.

However in some ways a live view to the current participants in an encounter is better privacy than this. I am happy to share my DPS (or heals) with my group. I often leave on the FTC log even when I join PUG trials because I don't feel like bothering to turn it off, and I like to see how I'm doing against other people who leave it on. I don't like the idea that there may be a website that ultimately has a growing history of what I do in game and how I spend my time, for all to see. Sure it's not directly tied to my social security number or anything, but anyone who can connect my online persona to my real life identity now would have this information.

I would be a bigger fan of the data being displayed live, in the encounter, with exporting and uploading being a separate option that people also have to approve and is only available if everyone chooses to not be anonymous. This way it's a great tool for progression raids but data about what we do in the game isn't being collected, stored, and distributed. And logs can't be uploaded to a public place with explicit consent.

Wolfkeks

I think if anonymously is the default most people would be happy about it.

@Kihra little question. If I use a name change token and change the name of a character and then upload a log with this new name... Does the system recognize this as a new character of does it know it is the same one?

Kihra

Wolfkeks wrote: »

@Kihra little question. If I use a name change token and change the name of a character and then upload a log with this new name... Does the system recognize this as a new character of does it know it is the same one?

It will know it's the same one, since the character id will be the same.

ZOS_BobbyWeir

Hey everyone! Based on your feedback, we are changing the default value for the Anonymous setting to "On". This means your character name and UserID will not be included in an encounter log unless you change the setting. This change will not be in the upcoming PTS build but expect to see it in one of the following ones.

A minor detail that is specific to PTS - when this change hits PTS, your setting will flip. Once live though, everyone will be set to "On".

Tasear

ZOS_BobbyWeir wrote: »

Hey everyone! Based on your feedback, we are changing the default value for the Anonymous setting to "On". This means your character name and UserID will not be included in an encounter log unless you change the setting. This change will not be in the upcoming PTS build but expect to see it in one of the following ones.

A minor detail that is specific to PTS - when this change hits PTS, your setting will flip. Once live though, everyone will be set to "On".

@MissBizz you will like to see this.

Elsonso

ZOS_BobbyWeir wrote: »

Hey everyone! Based on your feedback, we are changing the default value for the Anonymous setting to "On". This means your character name and UserID will not be included in an encounter log unless you change the setting. This change will not be in the upcoming PTS build but expect to see it in one of the following ones.

A minor detail that is specific to PTS - when this change hits PTS, your setting will flip. Once live though, everyone will be set to "On".

Awesome! Thanks, @ZOS_BobbyWeir

MissBizz

Tasear wrote: »

ZOS_BobbyWeir wrote: »

Hey everyone! Based on your feedback, we are changing the default value for the Anonymous setting to "On". This means your character name and UserID will not be included in an encounter log unless you change the setting. This change will not be in the upcoming PTS build but expect to see it in one of the following ones.

A minor detail that is specific to PTS - when this change hits PTS, your setting will flip. Once live though, everyone will be set to "On".

@MissBizz you will like to see this.

@Tasear Thank you for the ping! I'm super happy with this change and think it will quell a lot of worry about this very useful tool.

Alienoutlaw

and who says ZOS dont listen, very happy about this news, and now feel happy about the encounter log going forward
Nice job

Wolfkeks

Wohoooooo great news and thx for listening @ZOS_BobbyWeir

DjMuscleboy02

can't wait to kick people from my group that are set to anonymous

Ogou

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

can't wait to kick people from my group that are set to anonymous

How are you going to know?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

and who says ZOS dont listen, very happy about this news, and now feel happy about the encounter log going forward
Nice job

To be honest, this isn't "listening". It's more like "oooops... sorry, fixed, apologies !" .
But still. It makes this tool less evil. Let's rejoice.

anitajoneb17_ESO

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

can't wait to kick people from my group that are set to anonymous

LoL.
Get in a group. Port to dungeon. Start logger. Complete dungeon. Stop logger. Upload file. Read log. Find out the 3 other players were "anonymous". Retro-kick yourself.

VaranisArano

ZOS_BobbyWeir wrote: »

Hey everyone! Based on your feedback, we are changing the default value for the Anonymous setting to "On". This means your character name and UserID will not be included in an encounter log unless you change the setting. This change will not be in the upcoming PTS build but expect to see it in one of the following ones.

A minor detail that is specific to PTS - when this change hits PTS, your setting will flip. Once live though, everyone will be set to "On".

Excellent news! This answers my concerns about how the Encounter Log will impact players, so I'm looking forward to seeing how everyone is able to use it.

Flares

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

can't wait to kick people from my group that are set to anonymous

LoL.
Get in a group. Port to dungeon. Start logger. Complete dungeon. Stop logger. Upload file. Read log. Find out the 3 other players were "anonymous". Retro-kick yourself.

You don't need to complete dungeon to upload lol, just 1 fight

anitajoneb17_ESO

Flares wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

can't wait to kick people from my group that are set to anonymous

LoL.
Get in a group. Port to dungeon. Start logger. Complete dungeon. Stop logger. Upload file. Read log. Find out the 3 other players were "anonymous". Retro-kick yourself.

You don't need to complete dungeon to upload lol, just 1 fight

Double LoL.
Get in a group. Port to dungeon. Start logger. Complete dungeon first fight. Stop logger. Upload file. Read log. Find out the 3 other players were are "anonymous". Retro-kick yourself. Proceed to kick them... too bad, they've kicked you already for afk-ing. And they completed the dungeon long ago.

idk

majulook wrote: »

So on PTS I made myself a template character, set them to Anonymous found a place that had so bad guys, started the log process, and started fighting stuff for few minutes, and ended the logging process.

I started looking at the log, could not find any identifiable info like my @name or character name This is good anonymous works as it is supposed. I did see my class since the log shows my gear and abilities.

I looking through the log found that it that picked up another player that was in the area. This player was not anonymous and shows a @name and what I believe is character name which if they were not anonymous it should show.

I was not in a group, and it picked him up, which I did not realize was possible as I thought it was a a group only tool. I looked back through the threads and yep, it is stated that logger will pickup anyone around the person using the logging process.

Just be sure if you do not want to have your @name or character name picked up by the logging process set yourself to anonymous.

I will most likely use this or be in a group that wants to use it at some point.

This is noting a design flaw that greatly limits the use of the tool.

That design flaw is clearly with Zos, not @Kihra as it is on Zos' end that the capture is done.

Sorry, but if I can go into a different game and log what I do using their system and only grab what I do in open work, or even when group, yet still be able to group parse then I have to scratch my head.

So why are we getting second best here? If a lesser game can do better I expect Zos to step up to the plate and show they can do this quality instead pushing through a flawed system like the original GF was. Very sad.

Flares

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Flares wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

can't wait to kick people from my group that are set to anonymous

LoL.
Get in a group. Port to dungeon. Start logger. Complete dungeon. Stop logger. Upload file. Read log. Find out the 3 other players were "anonymous". Retro-kick yourself.

You don't need to complete dungeon to upload lol, just 1 fight

Double LoL.
Get in a group. Port to dungeon. Start logger. Complete dungeon first fight. Stop logger. Upload file. Read log. Find out the 3 other players were are "anonymous". Retro-kick yourself. Proceed to kick them... too bad, they've kicked you already for afk-ing. And they completed the dungeon long ago.

You never used fflogs or wowlogs before have you? Theres a live logging option.