Encounter Logging

VaranisArano

majulook wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Since this log is apparently just a txt file, I just wonder how difficult would it be to modify the data prior to upload.

Is there some DTS / Hash string that will discredit the file if modified by something /someone outside of the games logging process?

is this a concern that a player would make his numbers look much better than it really is to secure a spot in a 4 person group or 12 person core raid group? or to make a player look bad so that they have an excuse to kick them? TBH if anybody did that with my numbers i wouldn't want to play with them yikes good thing that my friends or guild mates know im a decent player since i have no data logs to manipulate

Just curious as to how the data could be ensured it was valid since it has been reported that it was just a text file.

Honestly once this is on PTS, I am going to record, and then look at the log file to see what is in it.

Seriously, were you just going to just use it without seeing what was in it?



@Kihra -- Thank You, for being open to explaining and answering questions about this new tool

wait you're saying i should make sure that my personal RL information isnt being recorded? I was assuming it would just be my game performance, where i died, the dps i pulled on specific points in the map as the group traverses further, maybe as detailed as might light attack rotation on my magblade

What I am saying is you do not really know what is in a box, until you open it.

Schrodinger's ESO Log?

Bluepitbull13

@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.

majulook

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.

@Bluepitbull13

I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.

Joy_Division

Because I was tagged earlier in the thread, just letting everyone know I am paying attention to both sides of the argument and that elusive middle ground in-between. I'd imagine ZOS is too.

Yes, I have my own opinions, but my highest priority is a system that is most accommodating. The health and the overall sustainability of the game is ultimately what I'm hoping for. I have no interest playing a game where people are uncomfortable and not excited to play it.

Bluepitbull13

majulook wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.

@Bluepitbull13

I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.

ah ok, tbh i dont plan on using it. Supposed to be a resource hog while it's running and I care about FPS too much in a trial. I am expecting the raid leader to take the hit or someone in the group with a beastly pc to take one for the team and as 4 man groups I run with people that make small talk in discord to care about min/maxing a pledge and personally dont care if a pug tells me if i suck after the dungeon is completed and then data uploaded after the fact lol

Hallothiel

To those that think that some of those against this are bad players, getting carried or against people improving - that is not the case.

The issue is data control & management.

I have agreed for my data to be shared with Zos, not a third party. Default for such things should be that you are NOT included in this unless you chose to be.

Whilst in game data may be anonymous (debatable), to opt-out one has to send personal data to a third party website - this is incredibly bad data protection. I should not have to share MORE data to stop things being shared!

For what it’s worth, I play on the PS4, and run trials with a training/progression group - without combat metrics. How do we improve & learn? We talk to each other, discuss & help - co-operatively. And I have found that far more helpful to improving than relying on dps numbers alone (or damn rotations!)

anitajoneb17_ESO

Kihra wrote: »

To address Anita's character name question, characters are identified by a character id and not just a name. While you could alter the listed character name, if you don't know the character id, or put in a fake character id, this would just result in a new character being created with the same name and that fake id. The minute I see weird duplication like that, I'd know something was being faked.

Thx for explaining ! (and thx to @code65536 too).
May I go a little further ? What if I know both ID and char names ? Like, I take my stamina templar, do something (miserably), take the log and change my ID to "@Alcast" and my char name to "Cesille" (sorry Alcast, that's the price of fame ;-) ). Both are real. Just, both are someone else's ID and char name. What happens then ?

I'm not nitpicking here. Just asking. Many people are worried...

T3hasiangod

majulook wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.

@Bluepitbull13

I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.

There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.

Bluepitbull13

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Kihra wrote: »

To address Anita's character name question, characters are identified by a character id and not just a name. While you could alter the listed character name, if you don't know the character id, or put in a fake character id, this would just result in a new character being created with the same name and that fake id. The minute I see weird duplication like that, I'd know something was being faked.

Thx for explaining ! (and thx to @code65536 too).
May I go a little further ? What if I know both ID and char names ? Like, I take my stamina templar, do something (miserably), take the log and change my ID to "@Alcast" and my char name to "Cesille" (sorry Alcast, that's the price of fame ;-) ). Both are real. Just, both are someone else's ID and char name. What happens then ?

I'm not nitpicking here. Just asking. Many people are worried...

Alcast gets deported from his native country, brings great shame to his family that makes them disown him over this low parse. His so called "friends" abandon him for getting exposed after years of getting top scores/world 1st clears. Prob gets ridiculed by the elitist community causing Twitch to perma ban him, and prob a pet gets sick and dies.

all because of a ESO pledge/trial data log gets manipulated to have a "casual gamer" dps numbers

Bluepitbull13

T3hasiangod wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.

@Bluepitbull13

I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.

There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.

but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s

Kihra

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

May I go a little further ? What if I know both ID and char names ? Like, I take my stamina templar, do something (miserably), take the log and change my ID to "@Alcast" and my char name to "Cesille" (sorry Alcast, that's the price of fame ;-) ). Both are real. Just, both are someone else's ID and char name. What happens then ?

The site would accept it if the name and id check out. However given that rankings are everyone's best scores, there's no incentive to do this. If a player has rank 1 on a boss and you deliberately fake a rank 10,000 parse, that isn't going to go on the leaderboard anyway, since it didn't beat the player's rank 1.

Deliberately renaming a character is not something that's ever happened on any of the other log sites that I've run for years. It's never happened, since there's no real incentive to do so.

code65536

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

May I go a little further ? What if I know both ID and char names ?

(With the caveat that I haven't seen what gets logged, so I can't be sure what that character ID actually is.)

I assume that the character ID in question is the same character ID that addons can see. It's a long numeric ID that uniquely identifies each character in ESO (it's not your @ name or account ID). At the present moment, the only people who can see a character's numeric ID is the owner of that character. I.e., I can see the ID of the character named "Codetank" on PC/EU is 87982920xxxx6774, but I don't have the means to see what IDs your characters have.

However, if someone had logged a run with me and I was not anonymous, would they be able to determine what my character's ID is? I assume that the answer is yes. And then armed with that knowledge, would they then be able to alter a different log to insert my name into it? Again, I assume that the answer would be yes.

But (1) it requires that I have "leaked" out my ID by not being anonymous and (2) that's a hell of a lot of effort that someone is going to have to go through to troll me and (3) since I would "own" that character on the site, I would have control over the display of that forged log that someone else uploaded.

(And again, with the caveat that PTS hasn't gone live yet so I am just making an educated guess on how it works.)

Bluepitbull13

code65536 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

May I go a little further ? What if I know both ID and char names ?

(With the caveat that I haven't seen what gets logged, so I can't be sure what that character ID actually is.)

I assume that the character ID in question is the same character ID that addons can see. It's a long numeric ID that uniquely identifies each character in ESO (it's not your @ name or account ID). At the present moment, the only people who can see a character's numeric ID is the owner of that character. I.e., I can see the ID of the character named "Codetank" on PC/EU is 87982920xxxx6774, but I don't have the means to see what IDs your characters have.

However, if someone had logged a run with me and I was not anonymous, would they be able to determine what my character's ID is? I assume that the answer is yes. And then armed with that knowledge, would they then be able to alter a different log to insert my name into it? Again, I assume that the answer would be yes.

But (1) it requires that I have "leaked" out my ID by not being anonymous and (2) that's a hell of a lot of effort that someone is going to have to go through to troll me and (3) since I would "own" that character on the site, I would have control over the display of that forged log that someone else uploaded.

(And again, with the caveat that PTS hasn't gone live yet so I am just making an educated guess on how it works.)

I believe the "concern" is that a group of "casual players" will band together to attack a person (in this case Alcast) with their low dps parses. I would assume that if anyone sees the log online they would see the other names in the group and realize that's not the people Alcast raids with but perhaps the "casual players" will go as far as fabricating the other members of Alcast Hodor core group just to smear Alcast online parse on a vMoL to be 5k on rhakkat final boss. Making people all of a sudden to distrust him? Im sorry i had to put a tin foil hat here to come up with this bs

Kihra

code65536 wrote: »

I assume that the character ID in question is the same character ID that addons can see

It's not. It's deliberately different.

LiquidPony

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.

@Bluepitbull13

I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.

There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.

but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s

I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but to be clear, silly as it sounds (because GDPR is silly in a lot of ways), your character name (or even a random identifier) + combat data logs is almost certainly considered "personal data". The GDPR definition of personal data is anything that can be linked to an identifiable person, even if indirectly. See: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG#d1e1489-1-1

‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;

For instance, at my company, if we transmit a GUID + clickstream over the wire to a third-party, that is considered "personal data" because in our system that GUID can be associated with an IP address or email address or other PII.

However, that does not mean that the data can't be stored, processed, analyzed, sent to other parties, etc. It just means that the user has to give explicit consent and that the data is being collected/stored/processed for a legitimate reason. You give consent when you click that obnoxious "OK" button that pops up on the cookie/data disclaimer on every website these days.

In the case of ESO, we all agree to the Privacy Policy when we first start the game or whenever said Privacy Policy changes.

That Privacy Policy specifies the types of "personal data" collected, in this case the relevant section would be:

2. The Personal Data We Collect
...
G. Your Activities, Stats, Friends and Preferences. We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account.

Additionally, it specifies how that data can be used and shared. Where exactly "Encounter Logging" fits into that scheme is open to interpretation but I don't think ZOS would have any trouble at all here. Of course, IANAL.

3. How We Use Personal Data
...
For the performance of our agreement with you. The personal data referred to under Section 2. A, B, C, D, E, F, G and I above may be used to provide our Services to you, including to run contests, sweepstakes or other events or activities in which you participate; improve your gameplay experience; provide tailored customer services and support; matching; for billing and payment purposes; and to handle your enquiries.
...
For our legitimate commercial interests. The personal data referred to under Section 2. D, E, F, G, H and I above may be used to improve and develop our products and services; analyse the use of our Services and generate aggregate statistics about our User community; personalize your experiences (e.g., for your geographic area); send or display targeted marketing; facilitate software updates; assist in security and fraud prevention; for system integrity (preventing hacking, cheats, spamming, etc.); facilitate our business operations and maintain appropriate business records; operate company policies and procedures; facilitate our response to legal process (e.g., a court order, warrant or subpoena); enable us to merge, sell, acquire, or transfer assets; and for other legitimate business purposes permitted by applicable law.

4. How ZeniMax Shares Personal Data

ZeniMax may disclose your personal data as follows, and we will obtain your consent to do so where required by applicable law:

Service Providers and Processor. We may engage vendors, agents, service providers, and affiliated entities to provide services to us or to Users on our behalf, such as support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services, data storage and other services. In providing their services, they may access, receive, maintain or otherwise process personal data on our behalf. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your personal data for their own marketing and other purposes.

I'll repeat, I am not a lawyer. However, my opinion is that ZOS is 100% covered in this use-case by the Privacy Policy that we all agree to based on the language therein. They are using/sharing this data to improve the gameplay experience.

Let me draw an analogy from my world. One of our lines of business involves site usage analytics. That is, you're on some website, and as you're navigating around, the site is transmitting to us (a third party) a stream of data describing your usage of the site (what links you click, how long you spend on each page, etc.). It is basically a GUID + event data (very similar what what is present in these Encounter Logs). That is considered "personal data" according to our DPO. It is also 100% fine for us to process it because the user explicitly consents to this when they agree to the Cookie Policy.

idk

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

After reading this forum post I'm not surprised ZoS ignores much of feedback from here...

So if we disagree we should just be quiet?

What is funny is it would require huge work to do what I suggested, add a field to the db. All aspects of skills have this field added to it. Default is set to No or 0. Buffs/debuffs would get a yes, or 1. Skills that do both damage and provide buffs/debuffs are already separated in the db. If someone opts out in game only the items set to a state of yes pass through.

Yes, it would take a moment to get every items set straight but it is pretty straight forward work and should not be complicated if the db that supports this game is arranged reasonably well.

This does not impact raid teams as they would require players to opt in just as they require sharing dps now. So there is no reason to object to this other than to object for the sake of it.

Hallothiel

@LiquidPony

Whilst this may be in the t&cs, it is not necessarily legally binding, and the data protection laws may over-ride them.

And if it is all done on Explicit Consent, then there has to be the ability for a person to view their data on request & also ask for its complete removal.

Bluepitbull13

LiquidPony wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.

@Bluepitbull13

I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.

There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.

but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s

I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but to be clear, silly as it sounds (because GDPR is silly in a lot of ways), your character name (or even a random identifier) + combat data logs is almost certainly considered "personal data". The GDPR definition of personal data is anything that can be linked to an identifiable person, even if indirectly. See: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG#d1e1489-1-1

‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;

For instance, at my company, if we transmit a GUID + clickstream over the wire to a third-party, that is considered "personal data" because in our system that GUID can be associated with an IP address or email address or other PII.

However, that does not mean that the data can't be stored, processed, analyzed, sent to other parties, etc. It just means that the user has to give explicit consent and that the data is being collected/stored/processed for a legitimate reason. You give consent when you click that obnoxious "OK" button that pops up on the cookie/data disclaimer on every website these days.

In the case of ESO, we all agree to the Privacy Policy when we first start the game or whenever said Privacy Policy changes.

That Privacy Policy specifies the types of "personal data" collected, in this case the relevant section would be:

2. The Personal Data We Collect
...
G. Your Activities, Stats, Friends and Preferences. We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account.

Additionally, it specifies how that data can be used and shared. Where exactly "Encounter Logging" fits into that scheme is open to interpretation but I don't think ZOS would have any trouble at all here. Of course, IANAL.

3. How We Use Personal Data
...
For the performance of our agreement with you. The personal data referred to under Section 2. A, B, C, D, E, F, G and I above may be used to provide our Services to you, including to run contests, sweepstakes or other events or activities in which you participate; improve your gameplay experience; provide tailored customer services and support; matching; for billing and payment purposes; and to handle your enquiries.
...
For our legitimate commercial interests. The personal data referred to under Section 2. D, E, F, G, H and I above may be used to improve and develop our products and services; analyse the use of our Services and generate aggregate statistics about our User community; personalize your experiences (e.g., for your geographic area); send or display targeted marketing; facilitate software updates; assist in security and fraud prevention; for system integrity (preventing hacking, cheats, spamming, etc.); facilitate our business operations and maintain appropriate business records; operate company policies and procedures; facilitate our response to legal process (e.g., a court order, warrant or subpoena); enable us to merge, sell, acquire, or transfer assets; and for other legitimate business purposes permitted by applicable law.

4. How ZeniMax Shares Personal Data

ZeniMax may disclose your personal data as follows, and we will obtain your consent to do so where required by applicable law:

Service Providers and Processor. We may engage vendors, agents, service providers, and affiliated entities to provide services to us or to Users on our behalf, such as support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services, data storage and other services. In providing their services, they may access, receive, maintain or otherwise process personal data on our behalf. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your personal data for their own marketing and other purposes.

I'll repeat, I am not a lawyer. However, my opinion is that ZOS is 100% covered in this use-case by the Privacy Policy that we all agree to based on the language therein. They are using/sharing this data to improve the gameplay experience.

Let me draw an analogy from my world. One of our lines of business involves site usage analytics. That is, you're on some website, and as you're navigating around, the site is transmitting to us (a third party) a stream of data describing your usage of the site (what links you click, how long you spend on each page, etc.). It is basically a GUID + event data (very similar what what is present in these Encounter Logs). That is considered "personal data" according to our DPO. It is also 100% fine for us to process it because the user explicitly consents to this when they agree to the Cookie Policy.

I truly believe from what I saw and will find out further when this tool hits the PTS is only game data being shared with this website, but wow some people pages back start bringing up social security numbers, bank pins, first and last name, date of birth and can't help but face palm a bit. I cant help but think that a judge would believe it's a frivolous litigation over how many deaths/dps in a dungeon/trial is being shared to a 3rd party that has agreements with zos

LiquidPony

Hallothiel wrote: »

@LiquidPony

Whilst this may be in the t&cs, it is not necessarily legally binding, and the data protection laws may over-ride them.

And if it is all done on Explicit Consent, then there has to be the ability for a person to view their data on request & also ask for its complete removal.

Who knows?

GDPR is a ridiculous morass that will take years or decades to sort out.

I am very much not a lawyer. The only reason I have any interest in chiming in on the matter is because some of the work I do (e.g., the third-party processing of pseudonymised event data) is, from a high level, pretty similar.

I would guess that a "right to erasure" request would be handled by ZOS, and result in the termination of the account, which would invalidate the link between the pseudonymised event data and personal information. So the username/ID + combat log data would no longer be "personal data". But, again, IANAL and I have no idea. It could be that none of this applies at all due to some exception somewhere in the law.

And either way, people in every thread about this feature are overreacting and taking it to ridiculous extremes. It's a really cool tool and I'm glad we'll have it.

An interesting and sort of similar case actually popped up not long ago in EVE Online:

https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/acsdf3/ontario_i_host_a_small_private_website_online_for/?st=juhdmmx9&sh=0dd238f5

Alienoutlaw

i tell you what i dislike more than the tool, thats the sneaky and dishonest way this seems to be a harvest tool, the dev has already stated (on the site) to claim your account 1st you MUST sign up with your email, then up load a log from the game with your account on it.
my first issue i dont want you have ANY of my details AT ALL so why should i have to sign up and give you them to keep my data private?
second your site is an ADvest (but i can clear them for $1) so not only are you harvesting my details so are your AD's plus your making money from it
3rd your T&C's were brought into question in another post, i even pointed out the privacy statment dated from may 2018, you said this was a mistake and the privacy T&C's was just a "boilerplate" standard agreement with the advertisers and was not relevant but you have had it in place over a year.
either you or ZOS are not telling us the whole truth
if this goes live as is i personally will delete my game

code65536

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

i tell you what i dislike more than the tool, thats the sneaky and dishonest way this seems to be a harvest tool, the dev has already stated (on the site) to claim your account 1st you MUST sign up with your email, then up load a log from the game with your account on it.
my first issue i dont want you have ANY of my details AT ALL so why should i have to sign up and give you them to keep my data private?
second your site is an ADvest (but i can clear them for $1) so not only are you harvesting my details so are your AD's plus your making money from it
3rd your T&C's were brought into question in another post, i even pointed out the privacy statment dated from may 2018, you said this was a mistake and the privacy T&C's was just a "boilerplate" standard agreement with the advertisers and was not relevant but you have had it in place over a year.
either you or ZOS are not telling us the whole truth
if this goes live as is i personally will delete my game

But if your in-game anonymization setting is enabled, you don't have to do any of that. Claiming on the site is only for cases where logs with your name are uploaded.

hedna123b14_ESO

The casuals of ESO are the most toxic players I've ever met...

LiquidPony

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

The casuals of ESO are the most toxic players I've ever met...

lol too true.

The "elite" players in the ESO community have pretty much always been welcoming and helpful in my experience.

ESO doesn't suffer from "toxic elitism." It suffers from toxic plebianism.

Bluepitbull13

LiquidPony wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

The casuals of ESO are the most toxic players I've ever met...

lol too true.

The "elite" players in the ESO community have pretty much always been welcoming and helpful in my experience.

ESO doesn't suffer from "toxic elitism." It suffers from toxic plebianism.

but a few pages back it's not the top tier players, it's the "in between" players, the ones who think they know more. They are infiltrating these safe haven guilds of casual players just to tell them they pull low dps or that they suck at a pledge. Tips tin foil hat. Heck just a few pages ago there's a potential Game of Thrones plot to smear Alcast's reputation with swapping names with a casual player's dps parse. Sigh... that's why we cant have nice things. oh almost forgot this tool is going to sequence my DNA and post it online for everybody to see along with my location cordinates

Alienoutlaw

code65536 wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

i tell you what i dislike more than the tool, thats the sneaky and dishonest way this seems to be a harvest tool, the dev has already stated (on the site) to claim your account 1st you MUST sign up with your email, then up load a log from the game with your account on it.
my first issue i dont want you have ANY of my details AT ALL so why should i have to sign up and give you them to keep my data private?
second your site is an ADvest (but i can clear them for $1) so not only are you harvesting my details so are your AD's plus your making money from it
3rd your T&C's were brought into question in another post, i even pointed out the privacy statment dated from may 2018, you said this was a mistake and the privacy T&C's was just a "boilerplate" standard agreement with the advertisers and was not relevant but you have had it in place over a year.
either you or ZOS are not telling us the whole truth
if this goes live as is i personally will delete my game

But if your in-game anonymization setting is enabled, you don't have to do any of that. Claiming on the site is only for cases where logs with your name are uploaded.

this is from the site
Claimed Characters
No characters have been claimed yet. Upload a fight where your character is the one logging, and it will be automatically claimed.
i have to do that before i can set any privacy

Kihra

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

Claimed Characters
No characters have been claimed yet. Upload a fight where your character is the one logging, and it will be automatically claimed.
i have to do that before i can set any privacy

As I stated in previous posts, if you want me to set the hidden flag for a character on my site, you can contact me anywhere: these forums, twitter, discord, email, I don't care. You don't have to sign up on the site for that.

Alienoutlaw

to futher again from the privacy T&Cs

Activity: We may store information about your use of the Service, such as your search activity, the pages you view, and the date and time of your visit. We also may store information that your computer or mobile device may provide to us in connection with your use of the Service, such as your browser type, type of computer or mobile device, browser language, IP address, WiFi information such as SSID, mobile carrier, phone number, unique device identifier, advertising identifier, location (including geolocation, beacon based location, and GPS location), and requested and referring URLs. You may be able to limit or disallow our use of certain location data through your device or browser settings, for example by adjusting the "Location Services" settings for our applications in iOS privacy settings.

as we are "forced" to create an account and use the tool to claim our user id we are in fact giving you "a 3rd party" way to much info than is needed for a simple "game log"

VaranisArano

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

i tell you what i dislike more than the tool, thats the sneaky and dishonest way this seems to be a harvest tool, the dev has already stated (on the site) to claim your account 1st you MUST sign up with your email, then up load a log from the game with your account on it.
my first issue i dont want you have ANY of my details AT ALL so why should i have to sign up and give you them to keep my data private?
second your site is an ADvest (but i can clear them for $1) so not only are you harvesting my details so are your AD's plus your making money from it
3rd your T&C's were brought into question in another post, i even pointed out the privacy statment dated from may 2018, you said this was a mistake and the privacy T&C's was just a "boilerplate" standard agreement with the advertisers and was not relevant but you have had it in place over a year.
either you or ZOS are not telling us the whole truth
if this goes live as is i personally will delete my game

But if your in-game anonymization setting is enabled, you don't have to do any of that. Claiming on the site is only for cases where logs with your name are uploaded.

this is from the site
Claimed Characters
No characters have been claimed yet. Upload a fight where your character is the one logging, and it will be automatically claimed.
i have to do that before i can set any privacy

As has been explained by Kihra, that's not the case.

The first step in privacy is the in game setting. Right now, you can check the box to become Anonymous. Many of us are asking that everyone be set to Anonymous by default.

Anonymous players won't have their character ids logged and the data is attached to the Anonymous character with a junk id, so it can't be traced back to you. (Unless someone writes down or screenshots who was in the group with them for that particular log, but that could happen right now anyway with CMX, and ZOS allows that.)

If you didn't set yourself to Anonymous and you later decide you want all logs with your character id to become anonymous, then you have to:
Sign up and claim your characters
OR
Contact Kihra/site owners via email, forums, discord, twitter, etc. asking for your characters to be hidden.

The only layer of privacy you get is whether or not your character ids are included or they are anonymous. Anonymity is controlled first via the in game checkbox (which is why many of us want anonymous to be the default choice). Only if you were not anonymous and later change your mind and want past logs to become anonymous do you have to take any further steps.

Alienoutlaw

VaranisArano wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

i tell you what i dislike more than the tool, thats the sneaky and dishonest way this seems to be a harvest tool, the dev has already stated (on the site) to claim your account 1st you MUST sign up with your email, then up load a log from the game with your account on it.
my first issue i dont want you have ANY of my details AT ALL so why should i have to sign up and give you them to keep my data private?
second your site is an ADvest (but i can clear them for $1) so not only are you harvesting my details so are your AD's plus your making money from it
3rd your T&C's were brought into question in another post, i even pointed out the privacy statment dated from may 2018, you said this was a mistake and the privacy T&C's was just a "boilerplate" standard agreement with the advertisers and was not relevant but you have had it in place over a year.
either you or ZOS are not telling us the whole truth
if this goes live as is i personally will delete my game

But if your in-game anonymization setting is enabled, you don't have to do any of that. Claiming on the site is only for cases where logs with your name are uploaded.

this is from the site
Claimed Characters
No characters have been claimed yet. Upload a fight where your character is the one logging, and it will be automatically claimed.
i have to do that before i can set any privacy

As has been explained by Kihra, that's not the case.

The first step in privacy is the in game setting. Right now, you can check the box to become Anonymous. Many of us are asking that everyone be set to Anonymous by default.

Anonymous players won't have their character ids logged and the data is attached to the Anonymous character with a junk id, so it can't be traced back to you. (Unless someone writes down or screenshots who was in the group with them for that particular log, but that could happen right now anyway with CMX, and ZOS allows that.)

If you didn't set yourself to Anonymous and you later decide you want all logs with your character id to become anonymous, then you have to:
Sign up and claim your characters
OR
Contact Kihra/site owners via email, forums, discord, twitter, etc. asking for your characters to be hidden.

The only layer of privacy you get is whether or not your character ids are included or they are anonymous. Anonymity is controlled first via the in game checkbox (which is why many of us want anonymous to be the default choice). Only if you were not anonymous and later change your mind and want past logs to become anonymous do you have to take any further steps.

it is i just copy pasted it from the site its self so how can it not be the case when thats where i got the info from????????

code65536

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

i tell you what i dislike more than the tool, thats the sneaky and dishonest way this seems to be a harvest tool, the dev has already stated (on the site) to claim your account 1st you MUST sign up with your email, then up load a log from the game with your account on it.
my first issue i dont want you have ANY of my details AT ALL so why should i have to sign up and give you them to keep my data private?
second your site is an ADvest (but i can clear them for $1) so not only are you harvesting my details so are your AD's plus your making money from it
3rd your T&C's were brought into question in another post, i even pointed out the privacy statment dated from may 2018, you said this was a mistake and the privacy T&C's was just a "boilerplate" standard agreement with the advertisers and was not relevant but you have had it in place over a year.
either you or ZOS are not telling us the whole truth
if this goes live as is i personally will delete my game

But if your in-game anonymization setting is enabled, you don't have to do any of that. Claiming on the site is only for cases where logs with your name are uploaded.

this is from the site
Claimed Characters
No characters have been claimed yet. Upload a fight where your character is the one logging, and it will be automatically claimed.
i have to do that before i can set any privacy

You're missing the point. If your in-game anonymization setting is enabled, then there will not even be a character to claim. The process of claiming and then hiding a character is only if you don't have in-game anonymization. If you do, then all of that is irrelevant because your character will never be on the site in the first place and there would be nothing to claim.