Encounter Logging

Masel

@Kihra I have a few remarks and feedback:


1. The tool is pretty awesome! We have used it for our vet sunspire raid yesterday and I was even able to attach a synchronized video to it to actually match the replay section, which is really good and very cool for raid groups. Overall it is pretty intuitive once you know the basic functionality and allows a very good analysis of uptimes/mistakes/positioning etc. Is it possible to introduce a function where to can insert videos of multiple povs? So one from a tank, a DD and a healer so you can switch pov if you like or have multiple open while playing it.
2. Theres a few bugs with ability casts and hits I think: for example, it shows 369 casts of light attacks for one DD in a whole Nahviintaas fight, but it shows over 400 hits of them. How is that possible?
3. Theres a bug with a few new sets where it will state "unknown item" in the logs window.
4. Is there a way to see character stats at a certain point? Few of my guild mates wanted to check their critical damage throughout the fight, average stamina, magicka etc. These are basic features of CMX, but I couldn't find a way to do that in the Log. Especially enemy resistances and own penetration values would be very helpful.
5. The timeline feature is very cool. Is there a way you could make that "playable" like a guitar hero pattern? It would make posting builds very cool, since you can have that timeline running while you parse/play.


PS: I believe the anonymous by default is the best way to go, good decision.

Kihra

Masel wrote: »

@Kihra I have a few remarks and feedback:

1. The tool is pretty awesome! We have used it for our vet sunspire raid yesterday and I was even able to attach a synchronized video to it to actually match the replay section, which is really good and very cool for raid groups. Overall it is pretty intuitive once you know the basic functionality and allows a very good analysis of uptimes/mistakes/positioning etc. Is it possible to introduce a function where to can insert videos of multiple povs? So one from a tank, a DD and a healer so you can switch pov if you like or have multiple open while playing it.

For the replay picture in picture, it's just one video. A feature I want to add eventually is the attachment of videos to rankings themselves (rather than reports), so that you can just connect kill videos to the ranks from multiple PoVs.

Masel wrote: »

2. Theres a few bugs with ability casts and hits I think: for example, it shows 369 casts of light attacks for one DD in a whole Nahviintaas fight, but it shows over 400 hits of them. How is that possible?

Ability procs are consolidated to the ability cast that they originated from. So if Light Attack does other damaging effects they get consolidated under Light Attack. You can click the disclosure triangle next to the name of the ability to open it up and see what's inside.

Note that Crusher and Elemental Weapon get consolidated right now and probably shouldn't, since they aren't really a proc, so I'll be special casing those and pulling them out of Light Attack at some point.

Masel wrote: »

3. Theres a bug with a few new sets where it will state "unknown item" in the logs window.

I am dependent on UESP for the list of valid items, and I'm not sure if the JSON I'm grabbing from them has been fully updated for Update 22. I'll keep grabbing it periodically. Just know that should sort itself out on release and is just about me not necessarily having PTS localization data for the item names.

Masel wrote: »

4. Is there a way to see character stats at a certain point? Few of my guild mates wanted to check their critical damage throughout the fight, average stamina, magicka etc. These are basic features of CMX, but I couldn't find a way to do that in the Log. Especially enemy resistances and own penetration values would be very helpful.

No, the client only has detailed stat info for the logging player and not for everyone else. so right now at least, there's no way to show any of that info.

Masel wrote: »

5. The timeline feature is very cool. Is there a way you could make that "playable" like a guitar hero pattern? It would make posting builds very cool, since you can have that timeline running while you parse/play.

That's a fun idea!

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

this makes no difference peeps will be kicked from guilds or told to go and get better, this is a toxic thing, zos should understand collecting peeps data with out consent is wrong and just hidding the character name does not fit, it is still collecting data and if we take going on a web page for example they have to ask if its ok to collect data, zos will lose alot of peeps from the game with this, as it will be used against peeps, even if its after the fight, its not that hard to work out who has which character with it

max_only

What fresh hell is this. I’m just now learning of this.

IzzyStardust

LiquidPony wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.

@Bluepitbull13

I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.

There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.

but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s

I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but to be clear, silly as it sounds (because GDPR is silly in a lot of ways), your character name (or even a random identifier) + combat data logs is almost certainly considered "personal data". The GDPR definition of personal data is anything that can be linked to an identifiable person, even if indirectly. See: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG#d1e1489-1-1

‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;

For instance, at my company, if we transmit a GUID + clickstream over the wire to a third-party, that is considered "personal data" because in our system that GUID can be associated with an IP address or email address or other PII.

However, that does not mean that the data can't be stored, processed, analyzed, sent to other parties, etc. It just means that the user has to give explicit consent and that the data is being collected/stored/processed for a legitimate reason. You give consent when you click that obnoxious "OK" button that pops up on the cookie/data disclaimer on every website these days.

In the case of ESO, we all agree to the Privacy Policy when we first start the game or whenever said Privacy Policy changes.

That Privacy Policy specifies the types of "personal data" collected, in this case the relevant section would be:

2. The Personal Data We Collect
...
G. Your Activities, Stats, Friends and Preferences. We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account.

Additionally, it specifies how that data can be used and shared. Where exactly "Encounter Logging" fits into that scheme is open to interpretation but I don't think ZOS would have any trouble at all here. Of course, IANAL.

3. How We Use Personal Data
...
For the performance of our agreement with you. The personal data referred to under Section 2. A, B, C, D, E, F, G and I above may be used to provide our Services to you, including to run contests, sweepstakes or other events or activities in which you participate; improve your gameplay experience; provide tailored customer services and support; matching; for billing and payment purposes; and to handle your enquiries.
...
For our legitimate commercial interests. The personal data referred to under Section 2. D, E, F, G, H and I above may be used to improve and develop our products and services; analyse the use of our Services and generate aggregate statistics about our User community; personalize your experiences (e.g., for your geographic area); send or display targeted marketing; facilitate software updates; assist in security and fraud prevention; for system integrity (preventing hacking, cheats, spamming, etc.); facilitate our business operations and maintain appropriate business records; operate company policies and procedures; facilitate our response to legal process (e.g., a court order, warrant or subpoena); enable us to merge, sell, acquire, or transfer assets; and for other legitimate business purposes permitted by applicable law.

4. How ZeniMax Shares Personal Data

ZeniMax may disclose your personal data as follows, and we will obtain your consent to do so where required by applicable law:

Service Providers and Processor. We may engage vendors, agents, service providers, and affiliated entities to provide services to us or to Users on our behalf, such as support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services, data storage and other services. In providing their services, they may access, receive, maintain or otherwise process personal data on our behalf. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your personal data for their own marketing and other purposes.

I'll repeat, I am not a lawyer. However, my opinion is that ZOS is 100% covered in this use-case by the Privacy Policy that we all agree to based on the language therein. They are using/sharing this data to improve the gameplay experience.

Let me draw an analogy from my world. One of our lines of business involves site usage analytics. That is, you're on some website, and as you're navigating around, the site is transmitting to us (a third party) a stream of data describing your usage of the site (what links you click, how long you spend on each page, etc.). It is basically a GUID + event data (very similar what what is present in these Encounter Logs). That is considered "personal data" according to our DPO. It is also 100% fine for us to process it because the user explicitly consents to this when they agree to the Cookie Policy.

@Joy_Division @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn (or pass on as necessary)
The issue I think that most people have is the fact that through mediums like discord, it is very easy to point out and possibly denigrate players - regardless whether they are anonymous.

If you’re in a group of people the one anonymous will be easy to point out.

Word goes around on discord and to try and deny that fact is delusional at best.

I think that’s the issue most people have.

One bad day can basically ruin someone’s reputation in the blink of an eye.

Or if someone has a stink against someone else, it’s a good way to flame and bait people even if that person was never even the same time person in the group.

We all know that poo sticks together - and groups of people do gang up on other people all the time.

I even have an example myself: I’ve had my VAA HM clear and I’ve been leading VAA as a healer since 2014 and anyone I’ve raided with plus my own videos can tell you how much I complain if I see someone using BOL on execute on the Mage.

Some guy got my name crossed with someone else, started talking/spreading alll this shiz around to people on PCNA shortly after I returned from PCEU, saying I was a bad healer and used BOL in Mage execute which I never have.

[snip]

Eventually he got kicked from the same guild I quit voluntarily- and everyone was immediately whispering to tell me.

Drama.

I am 38. Past a best effort to make things clear, I don’t care.

That all said I still like the idea of this tool; I just think that the potential for abuse outside ESO and thus within it, is the issue.

Joy_Division

IzzyStardust wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.

@Bluepitbull13

I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.

There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.

but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s

I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but to be clear, silly as it sounds (because GDPR is silly in a lot of ways), your character name (or even a random identifier) + combat data logs is almost certainly considered "personal data". The GDPR definition of personal data is anything that can be linked to an identifiable person, even if indirectly. See: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG#d1e1489-1-1

‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;

For instance, at my company, if we transmit a GUID + clickstream over the wire to a third-party, that is considered "personal data" because in our system that GUID can be associated with an IP address or email address or other PII.

However, that does not mean that the data can't be stored, processed, analyzed, sent to other parties, etc. It just means that the user has to give explicit consent and that the data is being collected/stored/processed for a legitimate reason. You give consent when you click that obnoxious "OK" button that pops up on the cookie/data disclaimer on every website these days.

In the case of ESO, we all agree to the Privacy Policy when we first start the game or whenever said Privacy Policy changes.

That Privacy Policy specifies the types of "personal data" collected, in this case the relevant section would be:

2. The Personal Data We Collect
...
G. Your Activities, Stats, Friends and Preferences. We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account.

Additionally, it specifies how that data can be used and shared. Where exactly "Encounter Logging" fits into that scheme is open to interpretation but I don't think ZOS would have any trouble at all here. Of course, IANAL.

3. How We Use Personal Data
...
For the performance of our agreement with you. The personal data referred to under Section 2. A, B, C, D, E, F, G and I above may be used to provide our Services to you, including to run contests, sweepstakes or other events or activities in which you participate; improve your gameplay experience; provide tailored customer services and support; matching; for billing and payment purposes; and to handle your enquiries.
...
For our legitimate commercial interests. The personal data referred to under Section 2. D, E, F, G, H and I above may be used to improve and develop our products and services; analyse the use of our Services and generate aggregate statistics about our User community; personalize your experiences (e.g., for your geographic area); send or display targeted marketing; facilitate software updates; assist in security and fraud prevention; for system integrity (preventing hacking, cheats, spamming, etc.); facilitate our business operations and maintain appropriate business records; operate company policies and procedures; facilitate our response to legal process (e.g., a court order, warrant or subpoena); enable us to merge, sell, acquire, or transfer assets; and for other legitimate business purposes permitted by applicable law.

4. How ZeniMax Shares Personal Data

ZeniMax may disclose your personal data as follows, and we will obtain your consent to do so where required by applicable law:

Service Providers and Processor. We may engage vendors, agents, service providers, and affiliated entities to provide services to us or to Users on our behalf, such as support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services, data storage and other services. In providing their services, they may access, receive, maintain or otherwise process personal data on our behalf. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your personal data for their own marketing and other purposes.

I'll repeat, I am not a lawyer. However, my opinion is that ZOS is 100% covered in this use-case by the Privacy Policy that we all agree to based on the language therein. They are using/sharing this data to improve the gameplay experience.

Let me draw an analogy from my world. One of our lines of business involves site usage analytics. That is, you're on some website, and as you're navigating around, the site is transmitting to us (a third party) a stream of data describing your usage of the site (what links you click, how long you spend on each page, etc.). It is basically a GUID + event data (very similar what what is present in these Encounter Logs). That is considered "personal data" according to our DPO. It is also 100% fine for us to process it because the user explicitly consents to this when they agree to the Cookie Policy.

@Joy_Division @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn (or pass on as necessary)
The issue I think that most people have is the fact that through mediums like discord, it is very easy to point out and possibly denigrate players - regardless whether they are anonymous.

If you’re in a group of people the one anonymous will be easy to point out.

Word goes around on discord and to try and deny that fact is delusional at best.

I think that’s the issue most people have.

One bad day can basically ruin someone’s reputation in the blink of an eye.

Or if someone has a stink against someone else, it’s a good way to flame and bait people even if that person was never even the same time person in the group.

We all know that poo sticks together - and groups of people do gang up on other people all the time.

I even have an example myself: I’ve had my VAA HM clear and I’ve been leading VAA as a healer since 2014 and anyone I’ve raided with plus my own videos can tell you how much I complain if I see someone using BOL on execute on the Mage.

Some guy got my name crossed with someone else, started talking/spreading alll this shiz around to people on PCNA shortly after I returned from PCEU, saying I was a bad healer and used BOL in Mage execute which I never have.

His level of shittalking was so damn high and all of it behind my back, that it took me a year to show my ability enough to prove DUDE, IT WAS NOT ME.

I whispered him with ach links, videos, saying I’m sure you have me confused with someone else....nothing but more ***.

Eventually he got kicked from the same guild I quit voluntarily- and everyone was immediately whispering to tell me.

Drama.

I am 38. Past a best effort to make things clear, I don’t care.

That all said I still like the idea of this tool; I just think that the potential for abuse outside ESO and thus within it, is the issue.

I have absolutely zero influence in this regard. I understand I'm a rep and I will pass along this sentiment as many, many others have also expressed it. However in the grand scheme of things I and the other reps have zero influence.

I think your example is telling though. All the drama you described came about without this tool existing. The tool isn't going to create something that doesn't already exist.

The question whether or not this tool is going to make things worse or enable it is certainly debatable. You may argue "yes," but your very example can be used for the "no" side. If the tool existed, you could have loaded up the logs and proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that you did NOT use Breath of Life and thus the drama would have ended right then and there. I don't things are clear cut.

When it comes to "real life" identity, I am not informed at all to give an opinion. So I won't.

As far as in-game concerns, I will say this. If you're in my group, I'll know what your DPS is. I'd know this even without a tool like Combat Metrics. Combat Metrics merely allows me to have a more precise estimate. If you're a healer, I'll know the uptimes of Ele Drain, Shards, and Combat Prayer. I'll know this and I spend most of my time PvPing. Someone who is an experienced raider is going to know clear as day. There is no getting away from that no matter what ZOS does with this tool.

The idea that people can "opt out" of this or not have their data recorded is not going change the fact that if someone wanted to be a jerk and spend their lives on Discords and in the PvE community trashing some player, they can and already have done so. You just gave an example. I have a good ESO friend I've know since 2015 who doesn't do PvE content because she's been called names and has been denigrated because of stupid in-game rivalries by vindictive people. This happens because people are jerks. And after reading this thread, I don;t want to hear another word how the PvP community is somehow exceptionally toxic.

Again, the argument that the tool will makes things worse in not clear cut. In both your case and my friend's case, the tool would have eliminated the drama (you because you can prove that you didn't cast BoL, my friend because she is a superior player and her numbers speak for itself).

The other thing I will say there have been times I was self-conscious of my DPS and deaths and really did not want to make that information easily accessible to other people. So I understand that perspective. But as much as I would have wanted that information anonymous, I came to realize it wasn't. As much as I could tell how other people in my group were doing, they could of me as well. If the other players were of the type to "talking/spreading alll this shiz behind my back" as you say, that was already going to happen. But why would they? I'm just another forgettable pug in some random group.

If I was part of a smaller community such as end-game PvE raiding where I did have a reputation, well, that's a different story. If I have a bad reputation as a poor player - for whatever reason - how would I go about correcting or changing that reputation? You said it yourself, it took over a year to show your ability because this tool wasn't available for you to vindicate yourself. You would have had less drama and would have been better off with ZOS's tool.

So things are not so simple as it's just bad and will cause drama.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

So things are not so simple as it's just bad and will cause drama.

So one side is "it's already bad, it's not going to get worse, so let's just have the tool, because it will be useful to some/many", and on the other side, there is "let's not just add yet another tool for toxicity, people have enough tools already".

That sounds like an inextricable ourorboros of an argumentation... so let's leave it at that.

But there's something I'd really, really like to know, and I'd like you, please please please, to try and get an answer from ZOS for me/us. Why implement this now after having disabled Group Damage back then ?
ZOS explicitely explained it was because of the non-real-time nature of the tool. Since we know from the site developer herself that there is a real time upload/reporting feature installed, that argument falls flat.
What's the REAL reason of this change of mind ?

ZOS always used to say that ESO wasn't "your typical MMO". They always had to deal with a somewhat split audience : the players coming from the single-player Elder Scrolls games, and the people coming from other MMOs. After a few months of hesitation, they made their choice and made the game more "play as you want", more "Elder Scrolls freedom". Especially with One Tamriel. At this stage, Firor even said ESO was more an "Online RPG" than an "MMORPG". And ever since then, they've been always quite protective of the casual and semi-casual players.
Why this sudden change of heart ? Why implement a feature specifically aimed at competitive-minded players ?
Is it true that WOW is seriously declining and that WOW players are storming into ESO ? Has the target audience changed ?
Or is there another reason ?

I know you're not a journalist, an envoy or a delegate, but you have access to them, so if you could at least try, I'd be very thankful. I'd like to know because I'm curious by nature, and also because if ESO is going the typical competitive MMO road, I should prepare and look for another nice pastime. So if you could give it a try, that would be very nice. Thank you.

hedna123b14_ESO

IzzyStardust wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.

@Bluepitbull13

I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.

There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.

but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s

I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but to be clear, silly as it sounds (because GDPR is silly in a lot of ways), your character name (or even a random identifier) + combat data logs is almost certainly considered "personal data". The GDPR definition of personal data is anything that can be linked to an identifiable person, even if indirectly. See: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG#d1e1489-1-1

‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;

For instance, at my company, if we transmit a GUID + clickstream over the wire to a third-party, that is considered "personal data" because in our system that GUID can be associated with an IP address or email address or other PII.

However, that does not mean that the data can't be stored, processed, analyzed, sent to other parties, etc. It just means that the user has to give explicit consent and that the data is being collected/stored/processed for a legitimate reason. You give consent when you click that obnoxious "OK" button that pops up on the cookie/data disclaimer on every website these days.

In the case of ESO, we all agree to the Privacy Policy when we first start the game or whenever said Privacy Policy changes.

That Privacy Policy specifies the types of "personal data" collected, in this case the relevant section would be:

2. The Personal Data We Collect
...
G. Your Activities, Stats, Friends and Preferences. We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account.

Additionally, it specifies how that data can be used and shared. Where exactly "Encounter Logging" fits into that scheme is open to interpretation but I don't think ZOS would have any trouble at all here. Of course, IANAL.

3. How We Use Personal Data
...
For the performance of our agreement with you. The personal data referred to under Section 2. A, B, C, D, E, F, G and I above may be used to provide our Services to you, including to run contests, sweepstakes or other events or activities in which you participate; improve your gameplay experience; provide tailored customer services and support; matching; for billing and payment purposes; and to handle your enquiries.
...
For our legitimate commercial interests. The personal data referred to under Section 2. D, E, F, G, H and I above may be used to improve and develop our products and services; analyse the use of our Services and generate aggregate statistics about our User community; personalize your experiences (e.g., for your geographic area); send or display targeted marketing; facilitate software updates; assist in security and fraud prevention; for system integrity (preventing hacking, cheats, spamming, etc.); facilitate our business operations and maintain appropriate business records; operate company policies and procedures; facilitate our response to legal process (e.g., a court order, warrant or subpoena); enable us to merge, sell, acquire, or transfer assets; and for other legitimate business purposes permitted by applicable law.

4. How ZeniMax Shares Personal Data

ZeniMax may disclose your personal data as follows, and we will obtain your consent to do so where required by applicable law:

Service Providers and Processor. We may engage vendors, agents, service providers, and affiliated entities to provide services to us or to Users on our behalf, such as support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services, data storage and other services. In providing their services, they may access, receive, maintain or otherwise process personal data on our behalf. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your personal data for their own marketing and other purposes.

I'll repeat, I am not a lawyer. However, my opinion is that ZOS is 100% covered in this use-case by the Privacy Policy that we all agree to based on the language therein. They are using/sharing this data to improve the gameplay experience.

Let me draw an analogy from my world. One of our lines of business involves site usage analytics. That is, you're on some website, and as you're navigating around, the site is transmitting to us (a third party) a stream of data describing your usage of the site (what links you click, how long you spend on each page, etc.). It is basically a GUID + event data (very similar what what is present in these Encounter Logs). That is considered "personal data" according to our DPO. It is also 100% fine for us to process it because the user explicitly consents to this when they agree to the Cookie Policy.

@Joy_Division @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn (or pass on as necessary)
The issue I think that most people have is the fact that through mediums like discord, it is very easy to point out and possibly denigrate players - regardless whether they are anonymous.

If you’re in a group of people the one anonymous will be easy to point out.

Word goes around on discord and to try and deny that fact is delusional at best.

I think that’s the issue most people have.

One bad day can basically ruin someone’s reputation in the blink of an eye.

Or if someone has a stink against someone else, it’s a good way to flame and bait people even if that person was never even the same time person in the group.

We all know that poo sticks together - and groups of people do gang up on other people all the time.

I even have an example myself: I’ve had my VAA HM clear and I’ve been leading VAA as a healer since 2014 and anyone I’ve raided with plus my own videos can tell you how much I complain if I see someone using BOL on execute on the Mage.

Some guy got my name crossed with someone else, started talking/spreading alll this shiz around to people on PCNA shortly after I returned from PCEU, saying I was a bad healer and used BOL in Mage execute which I never have.

His level of shittalking was so damn high and all of it behind my back, that it took me a year to show my ability enough to prove DUDE, IT WAS NOT ME.

I whispered him with ach links, videos, saying I’m sure you have me confused with someone else....nothing but more ***.

Eventually he got kicked from the same guild I quit voluntarily- and everyone was immediately whispering to tell me.

Drama.

I am 38. Past a best effort to make things clear, I don’t care.

That all said I still like the idea of this tool; I just think that the potential for abuse outside ESO and thus within it, is the issue.

Just being honest man if a person wants to *** talk you they dont need this tool, and actually using the example you provided if this tool was around you could easily call *** on his comments.

hedna123b14_ESO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

So things are not so simple as it's just bad and will cause drama.

So one side is "it's already bad, it's not going to get worse, so let's just have the tool, because it will be useful to some/many", and on the other side, there is "let's not just add yet another tool for toxicity, people have enough tools already".

That sounds like an inextricable ourorboros of an argumentation... so let's leave it at that.

But there's something I'd really, really like to know, and I'd like you, please please please, to try and get an answer from ZOS for me/us. Why implement this now after having disabled Group Damage back then ?
ZOS explicitely explained it was because of the non-real-time nature of the tool. Since we know from the site developer herself that there is a real time upload/reporting feature installed, that argument falls flat.
What's the REAL reason of this change of mind ?

ZOS always used to say that ESO wasn't "your typical MMO". They always had to deal with a somewhat split audience : the players coming from the single-player Elder Scrolls games, and the people coming from other MMOs. After a few months of hesitation, they made their choice and made the game more "play as you want", more "Elder Scrolls freedom". Especially with One Tamriel. At this stage, Firor even said ESO was more an "Online RPG" than an "MMORPG". And ever since then, they've been always quite protective of the casual and semi-casual players.
Why this sudden change of heart ? Why implement a feature specifically aimed at competitive-minded players ?
Is it true that WOW is seriously declining and that WOW players are storming into ESO ? Has the target audience changed ?
Or is there another reason ?

I know you're not a journalist, an envoy or a delegate, but you have access to them, so if you could at least try, I'd be very thankful. I'd like to know because I'm curious by nature, and also because if ESO is going the typical competitive MMO road, I should prepare and look for another nice pastime. So if you could give it a try, that would be very nice. Thank you.

Maybe because so few players are able to complete content in this game even know the content is mind bendingly easy? They want to change this in order to make the content more comfortable by more groups. This tool helps bring this to reality..

anitajoneb17_ESO

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Maybe because so few players are able to complete content in this game even know the content is mind bendingly easy? They want to change this in order to make the content more comfortable by more groups. This tool helps bring this to reality..

Easy ? You really mean eeeeasy ?
DLC dungeons are easy on vet ?
vHOF is eeeeasy ? vCR+3 is easy ?

Come on. Even Rich Lambert said vMA was "freaking hard".

Besides, I don't see how any sort of logging tool will fool people into thinking it's easy. This tool is made for people who know it's hard, who are proud to beat it BECAUSE it's hard, and who want to beat it better. (Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't make it easy).

If ZOS reaaly think this will help significantly more people complete hard content, then they are wrong on so many levels...

Nebthet78

I'm going to post this year too because of some of the arguments stating that, the data ZOS collects belongs to ZOS.

It's not ZOS' data. It is "user/player data" and ZOS can't do anything they want with it. The protection of that data in some countries is part of their Privacy act and ZOS must follow that act, otherwise face financial and other court ordered fines.

Why do you think Facebook is getting it's butt handed handed to it with lawsuits and fines from Countries where it has been found they broke a user's privacy rights? The Cambridge Analytical crap is not much different to what is happening here. The UK already fined FB for over $650,000usd, and Canada is in the middle of taking them to Court to enforce the Privacy Act, ensuring proper measures have been taken after the CA Scandal.

Cambridge Analytical made a Third Party Program accessed through Facebook by a game app for a psychological test. It took the information about you and the people on your friends lists and compiled it, whether or not your friends used the app. Facebook is getting in a lot of trouble because there was no "Meaningful Consent" given to allow this Third Party game app to get the users information nor their friends information.

ESO Logger, can record what you do in game, what you wear. Whether or not you are in a group with someone, and whether or not you want someone to record what you are doing. It's not enough that you are placed on anonymous. What you do in game and what is recorded by others can be used in such a way that it CAN be used to identify you and can be used to compile information such as how often you log in and form groups, play time. Play style. All things that can be placed in a database and scrutinized.

For other players AND this Third Party website/app to be able to lawfully record anything I do in game, ZOS is required to put in place measures for Meaningful Consent and an option to completely Opt-Out of anything being recorded at all.
It's in their best interest to come up of a way to do this, before releasing this into the live game, because the costs afterwards could get staggering.

I recommend for people who are against this, to notify their Privacy Commissions about the intent of what this program is doing so they can work with ZOS to ensure our Privacy Rights are enforced.

hedna123b14_ESO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Maybe because so few players are able to complete content in this game even know the content is mind bendingly easy? They want to change this in order to make the content more comfortable by more groups. This tool helps bring this to reality..

Easy ? You really mean eeeeasy ?
DLC dungeons are easy on vet ?
vHOF is eeeeasy ? vCR+3 is easy ?

Come on. Even Rich Lambert said vMA was "freaking hard".

Besides, I don't see how any sort of logging tool will fool people into thinking it's easy. This tool is made for people who know it's hard, who are proud to beat it BECAUSE it's hard, and who want to beat it better. (Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't make it easy).

If ZOS reaaly think this will help significantly more people complete hard content, then they are wrong on so many levels...

To me the content isn't difficult, but I recognize that for other people that may not be so, which is why this tool can help if the raid lead is competent at using it. It is meant for raid leads that want to know what is impeding their progress. They can look at the logs find the issue and then work with the players to resolve it. Often times players do not know the cause of the issues they experience. This tool can help.

hedna123b14_ESO

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I'm going to post this year too because of some of the arguments stating that, the data ZOS collects belongs to ZOS.

It's not ZOS' data. It is "user/player data" and ZOS can't do anything they want with it. The protection of that data in some countries is part of their Privacy act and ZOS must follow that act, otherwise face financial and other court ordered fines.

Why do you think Facebook is getting it's butt handed handed to it with lawsuits and fines from Countries where it has been found they broke a user's privacy rights? The Cambridge Analytical crap is not much different to what is happening here. The UK already fined FB for over $650,000usd, and Canada is in the middle of taking them to Court to enforce the Privacy Act, ensuring proper measures have been taken after the CA Scandal.

Cambridge Analytical made a Third Party Program accessed through Facebook by a game app for a psychological test. It took the information about you and the people on your friends lists and compiled it, whether or not your friends used the app. Facebook is getting in a lot of trouble because there was no "Meaningful Consent" given to allow this Third Party game app to get the users information nor their friends information.

ESO Logger, can record what you do in game, what you wear. Whether or not you are in a group with someone, and whether or not you want someone to record what you are doing. It's not enough that you are placed on anonymous. What you do in game and what is recorded by others can be used in such a way that it CAN be used to identify you and can be used to compile information such as how often you log in and form groups, play time. Play style. All things that can be placed in a database and scrutinized.

For other players AND this Third Party website/app to be able to lawfully record anything I do in game, ZOS is required to put in place measures for Meaningful Consent and an option to completely Opt-Out of anything being recorded at all.
It's in their best interest to come up of a way to do this, before releasing this into the live game, because the costs afterwards could get staggering.

I recommend for people who are against this, to notify their Privacy Commissions about the intent of what this program is doing so they can work with ZOS to ensure our Privacy Rights are enforced.

The data in the game does belong to ZoS. Facebook is completely different from ESO in the sense that the content is NOT ONLY user generated but exists outside of Facebook. All data in ESO, while user generated is coming from ESO. For example if I own a home and you come into that home and you decide to make a pillow fort out of my pillows in a shape that I've never seen before you have no legal right to disallow me from rearranging those pillows, documenting the shape you've created and doing whatever I want with the idea, because it's my house and I own the pillows. I am letting you play with the pillows, but you do not own the pillows nor the idea. No part of this game is your own and ZoS may do what they want with your data (as per the user agreement).

anitajoneb17_ESO

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

The data in the game does belong to ZoS. Facebook is completely different from ESO in the sense that the content is NOT ONLY user generated but exists outside of Facebook. All data in ESO, while user generated is coming from ESO. For example if I own a home and you come into that home and you decide to make a pillow fort out of my pillows in a shape that I've never seen before you have no legal right to disallow me from rearranging those pillows, documenting the shape you've created and doing whatever I want with the idea, because it's my house and I own the pillows. I am letting you play with the pillows, but you do not own the pillows nor the idea. No part of this game is your own and ZoS may do what they want with your data (as per the user agreement).

How can you know what is and what isn't, when these matters are currently being debated in various courts and still unclear ? These debates will last a long time because the amounts involved with private data are so huge. There's a trend showing, however : Google had to back off, Facebook had to back off. ZOS should be careful.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

I have read alot of the comments here and a couple shine through, the first is that peeps says toxic behaviour is already here in the game and yes it is and this ingame app ( which it is) wont make much of a difference, i believe it will, as it sends a message that ZOS is ok with people being toxic, that is the real problem Zos is telling peeps by adding this, that its ok to single someone out and to be toxic. the other comment i do agree with, this will end up in court, even if Zos has legs to stand on, which in some countries it does not, and if this ends them up in court, never mind losing the court case, the publicity alone will harm them

Joy_Division

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

So things are not so simple as it's just bad and will cause drama.

So one side is "it's already bad, it's not going to get worse, so let's just have the tool, because it will be useful to some/many", and on the other side, there is "let's not just add yet another tool for toxicity, people have enough tools already".

That sounds like an inextricable ourorboros of an argumentation... so let's leave it at that.

But there's something I'd really, really like to know, and I'd like you, please please please, to try and get an answer from ZOS for me/us. Why implement this now after having disabled Group Damage back then ?
ZOS explicitely explained it was because of the non-real-time nature of the tool. Since we know from the site developer herself that there is a real time upload/reporting feature installed, that argument falls flat.
What's the REAL reason of this change of mind ?

ZOS always used to say that ESO wasn't "your typical MMO". They always had to deal with a somewhat split audience : the players coming from the single-player Elder Scrolls games, and the people coming from other MMOs. After a few months of hesitation, they made their choice and made the game more "play as you want", more "Elder Scrolls freedom". Especially with One Tamriel. At this stage, Firor even said ESO was more an "Online RPG" than an "MMORPG". And ever since then, they've been always quite protective of the casual and semi-casual players.
Why this sudden change of heart ? Why implement a feature specifically aimed at competitive-minded players ?
Is it true that WOW is seriously declining and that WOW players are storming into ESO ? Has the target audience changed ?
Or is there another reason ?

I know you're not a journalist, an envoy or a delegate, but you have access to them, so if you could at least try, I'd be very thankful. I'd like to know because I'm curious by nature, and also because if ESO is going the typical competitive MMO road, I should prepare and look for another nice pastime. So if you could give it a try, that would be very nice. Thank you.

When I was in Maryland, ZOS told me what they told you: there was a difference between having that information immediately in-game (where thus everyone would always have access it to) and having to wait and go outside the game to access it (where many people would not bother).

As far as the "real," reason I don't know becausethey haven't said anything to me that they haven't said publicly. I can say this though: if you believe they are catering to a small sector of the community, their other decisions made in game contradict this.

As reps we have asked them for over a year now to make changes to templars, sorcerers, and Dragnknights to make the stamina versions of these classes distinctive and actually have an identity that resembles the base class. Such a change would only impact a minority of dedicated players and that's precisely the reason every update when we ask ZOS to do this they respond by saying they have "prioritized changes that reach a greater portion of the ESO community." As someone who mostly PvPs, I can state first-hand with 100% confidence that what meager resources that community has received has 99% been devoted against the hardcore play-everyday types. I don;t PvE much, but there have been months that went by where Hel Ra was bugged such that it was almost unplayable and in the patch notes I'd read that some random NPC in Glenumbra had their walking animation fixed or something.

As for ESO being more competitive, I would argue confidently that in the 5 years I have played, the game has gone precisely in the opposite direction. The introduction of proc sets that play the game for players, the constant nerfing of competitive skills, the removal of certain mechanics that required tactical gameplay (such as reflecting meteors and making cast times uninterruptible), and that they'd have a slogan of "raise the floor, lower the ceiling" indicate to me that their intent is most certainly not to cater to competitive gameplay.

I could ask them the "real" reason, but I highly doubt it's to they are aiming for competitive-minded players because that flies in the face of just about every other decision they make.

kylewwefan

This is gonna be so funny to expose the healers with %13 combat prayer up time. Tanks with %8 Alkosh and %20 crusher not Infused.

Everyone already knows the 10k DPS Guy. Don’t worry dude. No one cares, you’re just here cause we needed a warm body to fill the spot.

I see some of these nerd fights going on about someone doing more DPS on their alts than someone’s main already.....

Much as I’d like to see more detailed combat information, this is going to be abused. No question.

Should come as no surprise, the guys hitting astronomical DPS have no problems showing what they’re doing. And the people that struggle really don’t want this information put out there.

Too bad. Here it comes.

Can’t wait for this to come to console! Will it ever come to console? Probably not.

I think it actually could help more than hurt.

If you could see... like “oh wow” I’m missing %73 of my light attacks. No wonder I’m missing tons of damage.

code65536

kylewwefan wrote: »

This is gonna be so funny to expose the healers with %13 combat prayer up time. Tanks with %8 Alkosh and %20 crusher not Infused.

Um. You can already see all that with Combat Metrics.

kylewwefan

Console dude. This is the closest we’ve got to any kind of official ZOS combat metric

T3hasiangod

kylewwefan wrote: »

Console dude. This is the closest we’ve got to any kind of official ZOS combat metric

Console is not getting this tool.

kylewwefan

Crusher of hopes and dreams right there. Lol

T3hasiangod wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

Console dude. This is the closest we’ve got to any kind of official ZOS combat metric

Console is not getting this tool.

muh

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

The data in the game does belong to ZoS. Facebook is completely different from ESO in the sense that the content is NOT ONLY user generated but exists outside of Facebook. All data in ESO, while user generated is coming from ESO. For example if I own a home and you come into that home and you decide to make a pillow fort out of my pillows in a shape that I've never seen before you have no legal right to disallow me from rearranging those pillows, documenting the shape you've created and doing whatever I want with the idea, because it's my house and I own the pillows. I am letting you play with the pillows, but you do not own the pillows nor the idea. No part of this game is your own and ZoS may do what they want with your data (as per the user agreement).

How can you know what is and what isn't, when these matters are currently being debated in various courts and still unclear ? These debates will last a long time because the amounts involved with private data are so huge. There's a trend showing, however : Google had to back off, Facebook had to back off. ZOS should be careful.

Soo... humour me for a second.

For whatever reason it's crazy dusty outside, everything is covered in dust and everyone leaves footprints in said dust.
You happen to walk along the street and you're leaving footprints in the dust as well, but after a while they vanish again.
I then take pictures of your footprints. Not because they're yours, but because I like to take pictures of my footprints or those of my friends. Yours just happen to be on it as well.

Do you own the footprints you left in the dust? Do you own the picture I took of the footprints in the dust?
No one knows they're your footprints just by looking at them in isolation, do they?
Could someone come along, show pictures of some footprints and claim they are yours? Probably.
Could they proof they're yours without a shadow of a doubt? Probably not.
Only the people who actually saw you leave those footprints would be able to do so. Everyone else would have to actually believe that the person showing around the picture is telling the truth.
But those people you've been walking with have plenty opportunity to notice if you're walking slower or faster than they are, even without taking a picture. If it bothers them that you're slower, they either leave you behind or tell you to step up your walking game. And after you part ways it'll not even take half an hour until they completly forgot who you are.

ESO servers are the dust covered streets. You're leaving footprints all over the place already for everyone to see.
In reality everyone around you has to be able to see your footprints to be able to interact with you at all. Because people that don't leave footprints are ghosts and not real. If you don't want to leave footprints you unfortunately are unable to walk the dust covered streets.

Encounter logging is just giving people the ability to take picture of footprints now. And unless you etch your name into your soles they won't be able to associate a set of footprints with you.

anitajoneb17_ESO

muh wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

The data in the game does belong to ZoS. Facebook is completely different from ESO in the sense that the content is NOT ONLY user generated but exists outside of Facebook. All data in ESO, while user generated is coming from ESO. For example if I own a home and you come into that home and you decide to make a pillow fort out of my pillows in a shape that I've never seen before you have no legal right to disallow me from rearranging those pillows, documenting the shape you've created and doing whatever I want with the idea, because it's my house and I own the pillows. I am letting you play with the pillows, but you do not own the pillows nor the idea. No part of this game is your own and ZoS may do what they want with your data (as per the user agreement).

How can you know what is and what isn't, when these matters are currently being debated in various courts and still unclear ? These debates will last a long time because the amounts involved with private data are so huge. There's a trend showing, however : Google had to back off, Facebook had to back off. ZOS should be careful.

Soo... humour me for a second.

For whatever reason it's crazy dusty outside, everything is covered in dust and everyone leaves footprints in said dust.
You happen to walk along the street and you're leaving footprints in the dust as well, but after a while they vanish again.
I then take pictures of your footprints. Not because they're yours, but because I like to take pictures of my footprints or those of my friends. Yours just happen to be on it as well.

Do you own the footprints you left in the dust? Do you own the picture I took of the footprints in the dust?
No one knows they're your footprints just by looking at them in isolation, do they?
Could someone come along, show pictures of some footprints and claim they are yours? Probably.
Could they proof they're yours without a shadow of a doubt? Probably not.
Only the people who actually saw you leave those footprints would be able to do so. Everyone else would have to actually believe that the person showing around the picture is telling the truth.
But those people you've been walking with have plenty opportunity to notice if you're walking slower or faster than they are, even without taking a picture. If it bothers them that you're slower, they either leave you behind or tell you to step up your walking game. And after you part ways it'll not even take half an hour until they completly forgot who you are.

ESO servers are the dust covered streets. You're leaving footprints all over the place already for everyone to see.
In reality everyone around you has to be able to see your footprints to be able to interact with you at all. Because people that don't leave footprints are ghosts and not real. If you don't want to leave footprints you unfortunately are unable to walk the dust covered streets.

Encounter logging is just giving people the ability to take picture of footprints now. And unless you etch your name into your soles they won't be able to associate a set of footprints with you.

This particular part of the discussion was about the legal point of view. People who claim that game data is 100% ZOS' to do whatever ZOS pleases are just wrong. So are probably the people who claim that it is 100% illegal to record this data without consent. Simply because those new laws are still being confronted in court.

As to your analogy, sorry but it falls flat. I have many options to walk in the streets and not leave footprints, and still not be a ghost. By erasing them myself for instance, or walking into someone else prints. And while noone can, in theory, link them to my person, a laboratory can prove without a doubt that they match my shoes - and only mine, should this information be useful to anyone.

As to the "it's just the scenery" argument, this falls flat too. Take for instance Google Street View. Were they purposedly taking photographs of cars with plate numbers ? No. They were taking photographs of streets, and the cars just happened to be there. Can anyone link a plate number to my person ? No. But the police can, anytime, within seconds. Google was taken to court and forced to blur all plate numbers on each and every picture of Google Street Map. And that's *billions* of pictures.

ManwithBeard9

kylewwefan wrote: »

Crusher of hopes and dreams right there. Lol

T3hasiangod wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

Console dude. This is the closest we’ve got to any kind of official ZOS combat metric

Console is not getting this tool.

They WANT to bring to it to consoles, they just need to figure out a system for it first. I would think it would highly depend on Sony and Microsoft allowing things to be uploaded wherever using their services.

muh

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

muh wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

The data in the game does belong to ZoS. Facebook is completely different from ESO in the sense that the content is NOT ONLY user generated but exists outside of Facebook. All data in ESO, while user generated is coming from ESO. For example if I own a home and you come into that home and you decide to make a pillow fort out of my pillows in a shape that I've never seen before you have no legal right to disallow me from rearranging those pillows, documenting the shape you've created and doing whatever I want with the idea, because it's my house and I own the pillows. I am letting you play with the pillows, but you do not own the pillows nor the idea. No part of this game is your own and ZoS may do what they want with your data (as per the user agreement).

How can you know what is and what isn't, when these matters are currently being debated in various courts and still unclear ? These debates will last a long time because the amounts involved with private data are so huge. There's a trend showing, however : Google had to back off, Facebook had to back off. ZOS should be careful.

Soo... humour me for a second.

For whatever reason it's crazy dusty outside, everything is covered in dust and everyone leaves footprints in said dust.
You happen to walk along the street and you're leaving footprints in the dust as well, but after a while they vanish again.
I then take pictures of your footprints. Not because they're yours, but because I like to take pictures of my footprints or those of my friends. Yours just happen to be on it as well.

Do you own the footprints you left in the dust? Do you own the picture I took of the footprints in the dust?
No one knows they're your footprints just by looking at them in isolation, do they?
Could someone come along, show pictures of some footprints and claim they are yours? Probably.
Could they proof they're yours without a shadow of a doubt? Probably not.
Only the people who actually saw you leave those footprints would be able to do so. Everyone else would have to actually believe that the person showing around the picture is telling the truth.
But those people you've been walking with have plenty opportunity to notice if you're walking slower or faster than they are, even without taking a picture. If it bothers them that you're slower, they either leave you behind or tell you to step up your walking game. And after you part ways it'll not even take half an hour until they completly forgot who you are.

ESO servers are the dust covered streets. You're leaving footprints all over the place already for everyone to see.
In reality everyone around you has to be able to see your footprints to be able to interact with you at all. Because people that don't leave footprints are ghosts and not real. If you don't want to leave footprints you unfortunately are unable to walk the dust covered streets.

Encounter logging is just giving people the ability to take picture of footprints now. And unless you etch your name into your soles they won't be able to associate a set of footprints with you.

This particular part of the discussion was about the legal point of view. People who claim that game data is 100% ZOS' to do whatever ZOS pleases are just wrong. So are probably the people who claim that it is 100% illegal to record this data without consent. Simply because those new laws are still being confronted in court.

As to your analogy, sorry but it falls flat. I have many options to walk in the streets and not leave footprints, and still not be a ghost. By erasing them myself for instance, or walking into someone else prints.[...]

But that's where you're wrong. Someone could take pictures like 60 times a second, they'd get your footprints before you have the chance to destroy them yourself.

Every input you make in ESO is already sent to every other player around you as soon as you yourself actually perform it. You can't prevent anyone from receiving them, except by not playing the game. That's the basis of every online game.

You agree that ZOS shares your interactions with the game already, and that not even anonymous. Because everyone can see who you are when they're watching you. The reason why you have the option to not have your name attached to logs is because that is, if the argument comes down to it, the only remotely personal infomation you could have any right to. And setting yourself anonymous prevents it from being taken outside of the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

[...] And while noone can, in theory, link them to my person, a laboratory can prove without a doubt that they match my shoes - and only mine, should this information be useful to anyone.

Well the thing is, everyone wears the exact same shoe and size, with the exact same profile and exact same wear and tear. The only thing that is ever so slightly different is how the people wearing them walk.
But that's not even uniquely different. Because everyone walks differently at any given time. Some people generally walk faster, some slower. But no one, not even the same person, walks the same way twice.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

As to the "it's just the scenery" argument, this falls flat too. Take for instance Google Street View. Were they purposedly taking photographs of cars with plate numbers ? No. They were taking photographs of streets, and the cars just happened to be there. Can anyone link a plate number to my person ? No. But the police can, anytime, within seconds. Google was taken to court and forced to blur all plate numbers on each and every picture of Google Street Map. And that's *billions* of pictures.

There are no car plates. There are only cars. And some that put their name on their car, but they do so willingly.

anitajoneb17_ESO

muh wrote: »

There are no car plates. There are only cars. And some that put their name on their car, but they do so willingly.

You didn't get a word of what I was saying. Forget it.

muh

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

muh wrote: »

There are no car plates. There are only cars. And some that put their name on their car, but they do so willingly.

You didn't get a word of what I was saying. Forget it.

I got you don't worry.

But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.

I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.

Edit:

Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?

Ydrisselle

muh wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

muh wrote: »

There are no car plates. There are only cars. And some that put their name on their car, but they do so willingly.

You didn't get a word of what I was saying. Forget it.

I got you don't worry.

But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.

I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.

Edit:

Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?

You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.

muh

Ydrisselle wrote: »

muh wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

muh wrote: »

There are no car plates. There are only cars. And some that put their name on their car, but they do so willingly.

You didn't get a word of what I was saying. Forget it.

I got you don't worry.

But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.

I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.

Edit:

Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?

You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.

I'm sorry what?

It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.

Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.

Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".

First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:

Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)

13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en"
32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE
32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F
393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T
393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base"
393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,*
874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,*
1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T
1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T
1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*

Appear Anonymously: ON

5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en"
5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE
5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F
391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T
392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base"
392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,*
1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,*
1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T
1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000
1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037

You guys...

Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.

The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."

T3hasiangod

muh wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

muh wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

muh wrote: »

There are no car plates. There are only cars. And some that put their name on their car, but they do so willingly.

You didn't get a word of what I was saying. Forget it.

I got you don't worry.

But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.

I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.

Edit:

Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?

You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.

I'm sorry what?

It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.

Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.

Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".

First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:

Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)

13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en"
32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE
32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F
393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T
393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base"
393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,*
874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,*
1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T
1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T
1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*

Appear Anonymously: ON

5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en"
5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE
5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F
391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T
392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base"
392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,*
1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,*
1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T
1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000
1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037

You guys...

Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.

The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."

But I know who the anonymous person is now so hah! /s